Love Life with Matthew Hussey - 170: What The Hell Is "The Ick" (And Why Does It End Relationships)?

Episode Date: June 22, 2022

You may have been dating a guy that seemed promising, until he said that ONE thing, or you saw ONE behaviour, and it totally turned you off.  Or you've been together for 6 months, and your attraction has now turned to repulsion. This is "the ick", and in this episode, Matt, Stephen, and Audrey sit down to look at how this strange phenomenon occurs and what it says about attraction. --- Join our next Virtual Retreat! - Claim Your Limited Time Early Bird Discount ($200 OFF the usual price!) for The Virtual Retreat at MHVirtualRetreat.com - Offer ends July 6th. --- Follow Matt @thematthewhussey Follow Stephen @stephenhhussey --- Email us! You can get in touch with the show and give your feedback/thoughts at [e-mail] --- ►► FREE guide to download: “3 Secrets To Love” → 3SecretsToLove.com

you now focus in on something that maybe in the beginning would not have caught your attention, certainly not in the romantic phase of the relationship. Welcome to the Love Life Podcast with me, Matthew Hussey, my brother, Stephen Hussey. Hello, friends. And Audrey joining us today. Hello, everybody. We had an email that demanded you back. Did you know that? No, I didn't know that yeah say well maybe we'll read it at the end but there was there was an email that that said something interesting

about you being here so we'll come on to that it was from matthew to me um what was that thing you were taught i overheard you two talking about while i was in the other room matt matt was saying we've just got back from our retreat and matt was saying i find it so amazing that we're here in england and i've brought sand from florida with me into our house what what was that about no firstly i didn't bring it's not like i brought a bottle of sand back from Florida. Right. It's that Audrey emptied her shoe just now. It was my sock actually. Onto mum's carpet, I should say. Just straight out onto the carpet.

And there was sand that came out. And I was like, isn't, I said something that I thought, I didn't know if anyone would relate to. But I said to Audrey Audrey I've always found it just weird and amazing the idea that when you come back from a place you when you bring the sand with you you know like we're in England right now and there's Florida sand in this house we've brought it back we've brought it to a place it shouldn't be. I agree. I think it's pretty crazy when you think about it. It's mind-blowing, isn't it?

It is mind-blowing, yeah. It's absolutely mind-blowing. And I said to Matthew, actually, I feel the same way when you bring seashells. Stephen's looking at us like, what the hell? When we were in Tahiti, you brought back a seashell. I did. I brought back a seashell and I thought,

oh my God, where has this seashell been? What's the story? What journey has it been on to end up in our bedroom? Imagine it was in the French Polynesian waters of Tahiti and it's now somewhere it has no right being in England. Right. Or you bring back like a fossil and that fossil has been on hundreds, thousands of years journey. Right. Yeah. I don't know where you're finding fossils, but we were going for a more modest sort of shell by the beach. Is me bringing, I brought some peanut brittle back from LA.

Is that similar? I don't think it's, no, I don't think it's a world apart because it's still just this kind of feeling of i've brought this far from its home no but there is a big difference because it's not a part of nature you feel like you're like hauling up the earth and and spreading it there's something romantic about sand and and shells being you know halfway across the world from where they originated i suppose it's maybe a bit different with peanut brittle that's recently been manufactured in yeah but i do actually i'm not going to say it's a totally different thing no that's probably why people keep the little bottles of sand in their house

don't they that was a that was a fashionable thing to do sort of when we were kids is people had bottles of sand from everywhere they've been yeah i think that's still quite a nice little it's quite cute and it all came from space one day so as did we as did we welcome everyone to the love life podcast well we're talking today about a concept that i hadn't and i feel strange that i haven't heard about it given the nature of my job and what we speak about a lot but i hadn't heard of this term until recently and it appears to be a term that has become somewhat widely used. Some of our listeners will no doubt have heard it and others it will be initially alien to. But like me, I think once you hear it and you hear what it is, it will immediately resonate with you as a phenomenon. So, Stephen, what is the word we're going to talk about today? And then maybe before

we jump into it, we'll have a little review from iTunes. Okay, the word we're going to discuss is, I'm going to title this, what the hell is the ick, Matt? So the word is ick. The ick. Which is hilarious to me that you have never heard of it before i think it's just because you're men because and we're less judge we're sort of less judgmental so we don't get the ick not really not really where i was going but open-minded well let's say well hang on let's just step back for a moment and and can we just define what's the i i doubt it's in webster's but what what is the internet definition of the ick okay the ick is a feeling of being irrevocably turned off generally with no hope of return for a current or a budding relationship got it it was so it was originally it didn't originate on tiktok but it's been very popular on tiktok with people describing

when they got the ick apparently it became big because a contestant called olivia atwood on love island in 2017 described getting the ick with one of the guys on there and everyone was like what's that and she talked about it so audrey you're having a go about us not knowing about it but it originated from love island which is a place i have never and will never reside which is some sand matt will never be bringing back it did not originate from love island it originated way before love island but she used it on love island and made it popular but i i think i i would stand to argue that every woman or majority of women has experienced the ick or heard of the ick and know what the ick is all about so i was very very surprised that you guys had never heard of it i felt like you'd been living under

a rock it had never been brought up to me by any woman i've ever coached as the ick. So that's, or maybe someone had written that in a comment and I had just thought it was a typo. I had had one friend who described to me when we were teenagers, she said, oh, there's this feeling you get if you're like, you want to break up with your boyfriend or whatever, and he makes your skin crawl. She didn't call it the ick then but that's how she described same phenomenon yeah well we're going to get into what some of the most common icks are it will be a fun sort of quiz i suppose to see if any of these are our listeners icks if they are if we come across one of your icks, then write in podcast at matthewhussey.com. If we don't cover your ick, send us an email anyway with the one that we didn't cover. I would be fascinated to know what your specific ick is. What is that thing that just destroys

your attraction for someone big or small. So Stephen, before we go any further, firstly, I just want to make sure everybody knows that until the end of this month, we have early bird tickets available for the final virtual retreat of the year. It's taking place in November is the last one if you haven't been on our retreat yet and you want big change in your life your confidence the way that you go through life your ability to handle the challenges you're going through in life dealing with negative emotional patterns dealing with patterns of self-sabotage, sticking to habits, being able to deal with the dynamics of the people in your life, not just dynamics in your love life, but the dynamics with family, with friendships, with people at work.

This program is an immersive program that is like a full life servicing of ourselves. And it is the word transformation is sort of thrown around these days, but the people who have been to the retreat will tell you that that word is entirely appropriate when it comes to this program. And this is our final one. The virtual retreat is an easier investment, both in time and money, than our in-person retreat that we just did in Florida. This is three days and it takes place two of those three days over a weekend. So it's very easy to come to without taking time off work or only taking one day off. And it's a really great way into the world of the retreat. So I want to encourage everybody to go to mhvirtualretreat.com and check out those early bird tickets, because not only do

they come with some very special bonuses that are only available with the early bird ticket, but they also are the cheapest tickets you will get for the virtual retreat. And that's because we want to reward the people who get in early and it's only until the end of the month. So go to mhvirtualretreat.com for the final retreat of this year. Very good. Stephen, what's our lovely iTunes thread saying? What are people saying on iTunes about us? So we have a lovely review from Sunday Fun, who says, thank you. After a 10-year relationship fail, I'm learning from you both how to heal, how to not get hurt again. I've listened to a lot of your content and feel you've helped me become a better person, a better dating partner. Help me stay single because I won't accept toxic traits. I share your podcast to everyone that is struggling through

relationship loss or not i hope to become a better person because of your team's podcast thank you very much lovely thank you sunday fun so nice well let's do it x steve where do you want to start with the ick? Well, yeah, to reiterate, so the ick is supposed to be this feeling of suddenly, irrevocably being turned off by someone with no hope of return. It could be a current relationship, could be a budding one. It tends to often be people in this sort of middle stage, I'd say, or early to middle stage. And basically there became this TikTok trend, as much as I am up with TikTok trends, there was this TikTok trend of people describing their version of the

ick. And this is where I want to point a question to you, Audrey, as we come on to this as a woman, because I feel there's some weird mix here between what might be genuine incompatibility and that causes the ick and then like just pet peeves and a lot of these lists so there's a list that came up that was a bunch of people's icks and they sort of sound ridiculous go on um matt if i told you wait these are these are ones you found on tiktok these are ones that were listed in various articles gathered from tiktok okay places like that um putting his hands up on a roller coaster has given someone the ick playing cricket well hang on let's just so the roller coaster one is well there's a few of these so but just you know we maybe we can pick up the pace on them but like can we just for a moment

speculate on why putting someone putting your hands up on a roller coaster might be an ick i i have a theory i suppose it's like people see it as cringe or they see it as try hard yeah i think they see it as a bit goofy yeah and a little bit like you're enjoying yourself too much you're a little bit too in the moment it's a bit overly enthusiastic yeah it's not cool it's not like it's not like you're just on a roller coaster having a good time it's like i'm on a roller coaster and i'm gonna make it even more scary by putting my hands in the air right like i'm i'm a bad dude i'm a bad boy baby no no no it's the opposite it's the opposite it's like i'm the bad boy is like what are you doing the bad boy is looking

at the person with their hands up and like what are you doing why are you doing that the bad boy is enduring the roller coaster so this guy's really into it he's loving the bad boy is enduring the roller coaster. Oh, so this guy's just really into it. He's loving it. The bad boy, like if the guy's sitting there, imagine like a teenager sitting next to his mum and his mum puts her hands up on the roller coaster and he's like, mum, put your hands down. What are you doing? Because that sort of feeling. So it's overly keen.

Right. And again, these are all the frivolous ones. There are some more serious ones. I think it's interesting to kind of get a little bit of like psychology here so what's the next one so uh one is playing cricket i guess well hang on this is a very english reference this could not have come from american tiktok uh well no tiktok's you know it's all over the show well i know that but there's no way this is not like this is a very local reference

why why playing cricket for those in america why might playing cricket be an it it might be seen as like a fusty sport and it's like a bit of a tough sort of posh boy a bit of a posh boy school boy sport i guess that's that would be the image people would have of it. But here's some others. Jumped weird on a trampoline. Now that is very, very specific. Very specific. How many people are even seeing? I mean, you can go your whole life without seeing anyone you date on a trampoline. Yeah, so if he does it 10 years into the marriage, you're screwed.

Right. And you get the ick. If that's your thing, you better find an excuse to get him on a trampoline quickly. I did not know what that prat would look like on a trampoline. Yeah, had I known. I thought he was the man of my dreams. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel misled.

I sniffed loudly. Hang on though, why the trampoline thing? Sorry, Steve. You're overanalyzing this. I think the trampoline thing is the same as the roller coaster thing. I reckon he was enjoying himself a little bit too much on the trampoline, letting go. Not enough indifference.

Not enough indifference. Not enough composure. Do you think it's also a coordination thing? Like, I don't like he sort of looked all gangly and weird. And look, here's one. Standing in a long line. Standing in a long line can give someone the it and speechless for that one is that just that feels that feels cultural to me cultural yeah there are some

cultures that just don't the the idea of standing in a line is sort of offensive and there are others that are real like it's too submissive like english people queue up right you know what i mean they they queue up whereas there are other cultures where they're just like what do you do no i'm just gonna find a way around this they just can't deal with it right right i can definitely see a french woman being put off by somebody standing in the line for too long right right and you're and you are of course speaking as a french woman as a french woman i just want to make clear it's not audrey's not just saying she's not just hating on the french right now she is the french he literally might be standing in line buying movie tickets for you guys and she goes well i don't like the look at it i don't like what i'm seeing

she goes i can't take this this isn't for me um uh here's another one um sat cross-legged so i'm in trouble if people can look at me right now if you saw me right now i'm halfway between a cross-legged that was one i saw people didn't like one knee over the other what do you mean well that's cross-legged you've got one knee i'm sat cross-legged sort of in a cross-legged this would be one knee over the other as if i'm just sit i sat like this no i think i think what matt's doing is cross-legged i think no no i think that you're cross-legged you're sort of one over one knee over the other now i think that the cross-legged thing is that feels sort of infant like right feels like sort of childish and therefore it doesn't feel i think the version of the versions

of the same thing one feels a bit like you sort of resembling a child and the cross and the one leg over the other some people i think look at and go oh that's too feminine for this is an ancient yogic pose i mean this is you know right you're you're disgracing all kinds of traditions and and there are lots of this is you know we'll come on to this but if if prince and i don't know how prince sat but i bet you he sat with one leg over the other a lot yeah and people loved it in a lovely purple pair of trousers yeah and i've and it was and i bet purple trousers is on some people's list, but when Prince bloody does it. Right. Man or woman, you want to shag him. Right.

Yeah. I'm not saying. He's Prince. He's Prince. That's what I'm trying to say, is that I bet you people were never arguing that Prince had one leg over the other. But, you know. Right.

It's all coming out now, isn't it? Here's another one. Studied business. I think people just see that as a, they see a cliche of a certain kind of man who studies business. You know, someone who's, someone who's not culturally deep or something like that.

Interesting. Well, it's just sort of seen as a kind of catch all, like you didn't know what else to do. So you, it's not a, it's not a of seen as a kind of catch-all like you didn't know what else to do so you it's not a dig it's not a sign of passion so you just went for business or that you're sort of um only commercially driven and that's a turn right right like you're not there's not interest or quirkiness there um was too nice i mean that's a person really putting their cards on the table there. Was too nice.

Although that could be seen as people can be cloying or annoying or needy if they're, you know, nice is a sort of euphemistic word, isn't it? Ate pork. That's quite culturally specific, I think. Ate pork or vegetarian. Well, a lot of people really like pigs. A lot of people really like pigs a lot of people like pigs um you know i do feel like pork even amongst people who it's not a cultural or a religious thing that they don't eat pork there's just sort of a scene eating pigs is just seen as particularly you know they're bright they're really bright i love the attention you're giving to these there's there's a lot of interesting i think there's insights into people from these there's

one one woman wrote so one guy wrote girls who can't drive a manual car denim jackets with woolly collars and then a woman said i wrote that a guy jackets with woolly collars that feels like a woman wrote that and then there was a and then there was a woman who said i can't look at my partner when he's showering he looks pathetic i mean like like any so many of these are like moments of little vulnerability and they're just immediately pounced on but a man showering he literally can't do anything about that and also mean and also it is mean also some women find it sexy so sorry like she said like some people find it sexy watching their partner shower so that's kind of she said that about guys she's with

yeah i can't stand watching my partner showering i feel like with a lot of these there's some uh pre-existing contempt just waiting to come out right do you know what i mean like like hyper judgmental yeah if you if you feel like your partner is just the sexiest most manly amazing just person that you've ever met in your entire life and you see him naked showering you wouldn't go to he looks pathetic yeah you would sorry brian gosling um i'm not into when you soap yourself i just right it turns my stomach i feel like it's almost that behavior then highlights something that's already existing in the way that they perceive that person do you think i think so i think it's also possible that i think that's true i think it's also possible that something that someone does can remind a person of some make something conscious

or unconscious from their past that's become kind of locked in as a it's like if you're i don't know if your parent ate a certain way that sort of drove you mad at one point or another and then you date someone who has that eating style you know choose their food that way then it's kind of becomes triggering and it might be a kind of overall result of the contempt you feel for your partner in other ways. Or it could be something that you just kind of go, it reminds you of something that you really don't like. Yeah, I think that's true. I also think it's interesting. I lost my train of thought.

Hang on. What was I going to say? Sorry. No, go on. Oh gone oh no i blanked do you know what's really comforting is that you know billy of course was recently on stage with me and he blanked no we're not including this come on we're gonna no that's this stays in oh god now you just you just had a moment where you blanked and it's very comforting because I've had some moments where I've blanked on very high profile stages, uh, famously on the today show,

I completely blanked on live TV with Kathy Lee and, and Hoda. And, um, it, uh, it's, uh, you know, there were moments where I thought oh this is it this is my brain's slow decline now it's happening and just to see just to see other people i really respect and love having the exact same moment it's very comforting so you didn't even attribute it to nervousness you thought i'm get i'm going into senility at like 27 my my sort of my anxiety went to oh it's starting to yeah this is not good that's where you went a little bit because i would just immediately think i'm really nervous i did think that no i did and it did kind of give me a new kind of stage fright once i'd once i'd blanked my i suddenly what a new kind of stage fright i'd never had before because i always felt like oh i

can rely on my brain right like i if i'm in a difficult situation i'll always find something to say and then the possibility just appeared that oh i can just blank that can happen and i don't my brain when i think it's happening then my brain really got it all the only dialogue going on inside my brain is it's happening you're going blank you're going yeah that's what just happened to me exactly thanks for keeping it in i really appreciate it so so like a lot of these ics right those are silly and i don't know if that's what when people talk about the ick as like a big thing they felt they suddenly i've heard it like say i've heard it described as like your partner suddenly makes your skin crawl there's some description here by psychologists like suddenly they're they're

them kissing your neck feels like a slug crawling around your neck and you're like oh get off me but like it's almost like something is broken and you've maybe it's like this person reminds me of some like arsehole i remember or i've seen something in their their value system their beliefs the way they think about you know suddenly you think this person is i don't know oh this person's got a really like crass horrible like view on the world or there's some way they're rude or there's some way they there's something right and you're just like i can't stand this kind of person it's like a bit deeper than these silly things isn't it i actually don't think it is i think the ick is so much more primitive than that and i think it's interwoven in security because you know when you're younger i think you're much more likely

to get the ick over very very stupid things which would explain why so many of these seemingly weird quirky and superficial things uh have come via tiktok well exactly precisely and i think yeah not that we're not all capable of them i should say you know i think that we're everyone's cape because it's primitive everyone is capable of having it at a different at any stage but tell us just why i am curious why younger means more ics potentially. Well, there is actually a meme, which I will read out because I want to do it proper justice, which relates to dating in your 20s versus dating in your 30s. It says, dating in your 20s, it's not going to work out.

I don't like the way he chews. You could argue the definition of the ick, right? Right. Dating in your 30s. It wasn't even a felony and he was never convicted. Also, living at home makes sense because it allows him to be close to his mum and it's walking distance to the pizza hut he works at. Right.

I think this says a hell of a lot about why you get the ick when you're younger and less so perhaps when you're older. I think when you're younger and you feel like there is an abundance of time and people and choice, you just get to value very superficial things. And that's no shade on young people. I think, you know, you there are plenty of young people who have a level of maturity that people never reach when they're older but as a general rule you know you're always wanting to date the cool hot funny popular person and you are less sort of drawn to the kinds of traits that maybe you gravitate towards as you get older and And I think when you're younger, you're much more judgmental and contemptuous towards other people because you have a lot of insecurities within yourself.

So you find yourself repulsive in certain ways. You desperately want to be cool. You never want to be found out for anything. And so to associate yourself with somebody who could possibly, you know, drag you down to the level that you think you're at and possibly make you feel like you're not you know you're suddenly not popular and suddenly not that person i think that's that's one of the reasons that we get so repulsed by people oh my god this guy's not in the call club like he's like you know yeah and it's like it's gonna infect me

sort of thing exactly i think it's almost like look at him he's sitting cross-legged. He looks so, you know, weak. And oh my God, I can't be around that. I can't have people think that the guy that I'm with is that kind of guy. Oh, I'm repulsed. And I think that's where the primitive response comes in because it's such a kind of emotional response. And I think the older you get, the more comfortable you get in yourself, the more you realize that you yourself aren't perfect

and people are just, you know know people with flaws and whatever and i think you just end up being way more accepting of certain things because you realize that in order to find a partner you have to make allowances for people's weird quirks it's sort of when we think of the movie inside out and there are the different emotions uh anthropomorphized uh as little beings in her brain disgust is one of them and we associate disgust with teenagers right you you think when you think of like disgust as an emotion in our mind that goes through life and disgust describes herself as like my job is to save Riley this the girl being portrayed in the movie from social suicide and when you're a teenager that's like your driving motive is to save yourself from social suicide

and so you're looking for all of these cues in life as to what represents call what represents uncle and let me avoid uncle like the plague because there are real consequences in life to being perceived as uncle and one of the ways that i could end up being perceived as uncool is if i'm around anything and anyone that is uncle and i think that over the course of our lives hopefully if we grow and mature disgust that little being in our mind starts to loosen up and play less and less of a driving role as you say because we start to be humbled ourselves in life we realize that we do lots lots of uncool things we begin to accept the uncool parts of ourselves and in doing so we become more compassionate towards other people and hopefully we start to gravitate more towards what are the things that actually matter? And that to me, Steve, is almost what you're getting at.

See, I think there is interesting things on both sides. Because on one hand, I do think that the ics take place on a kind of primitive level. That means that for all practical purposes, it's almost like they don't differentiate the silly ics don't actually really differentiate themselves from the ones that we might perceive as being about something much more meaningful and important but what you're saying steve is that there are some ics that get to much more fundamental things right like say if you you were dating someone and they were just a chaotic disorganized nightmare and you were like oh my god i've played mother to a guy like this before and i'm like i'm out i don't want a guy like this or you have like someone who is super needy and like over lavishes you with like gifts and attention early on and you're like oh

god i don't i don't want i've had a needy i've had a needy boyfriend before i've got like get away from this and like something that's almost like a trigger for like oh you've just had like a domineering dad or man or something where you've been like this person talks over me they don't let me do this they they he tries like one thing that sounds a bit controlling and it triggers something in you that's like i don't want someone who's going to control me and it's more like something viscerally is like nope but to that extent really if you think about it and it is just a trigger so if you take the idea of like the chaotic person that is a turnoff because you're

like oh my god i'm going to end up playing mother to this person and you go well what would be the ick the ick might be you got in that guy's car for the first time and it was gross right and it was a mess and if you were then to kind of if someone put put that out on TikTok as the ick, they wouldn't describe it as my ick is a chaotic person whose life is in disorder and can't manage their responsibilities. You would say someone having a messy car. He had like five McDonald's wrappers in his car. To me, an ick is just a portal to that's why i'm interested because an ick to me is just a gateway to a bigger theme about what is unattractive and maybe i don't know if maybe there are examples of things that are not maybe the kind of kissing neck one but even then i kind

of feel like no that's more that point was that point was when he when you have the ick him kissing your neck is horrible oh yeah it wasn't kissing your neck is an ick it's when you have the ick then it's disgusting the idea i think when you have the ick it's there is no return that's the truth there's no return from the ick but i i saw him wait in line you said he did not go and punch that cashier and swipe the tickets himself so there is no going point and i return i but i do think the ick is not just something that happens early on in dating when you're getting to know someone there's that scene in uh the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind where jim carrey and kate winslet have been partners now for some time

and you can see that the contempt that is created from familiarity is starting to set in and they're starting to argue and pick at each other and they're at dinner at a time when he describes the two of them as they've become part of the dining dead which is a really sort of morbid idea and a really depressing depiction of people in long-term relationships but we all know what is meant by that and she says to him in a moment of what looks we can feel it when we see it it looks like contempt she says you know can you please clean up your hairs and she says this over dinner i think they're at sushi at the time and she's like can you please clean up your hairs in the bathroom in the shower it's gross

and that to me is like a moment where she gets the ick over something and it's not the dating discovery phase it's the it's almost the uh the the unraveling phase or the phase of i'm i'm now really close to you and because like we said it can come from a kind of wider contempt for somebody you now focus in on something that maybe in the beginning would not have caught your attention certainly not in the romantic phase of the relationship where we have a tendency to overlook so much yeah yeah so how would you say you can kind of combat the ick well i suppose combating it is at odds with the idea that it's a primitive response if if we're kind of if we're triggered against our will there's some people there's some people you are meant to just ick that's the point right you you can't you can't be everyone's cup

of tea you can't like blend into everyone so some people you're you're gonna have to be if you are wall street business guy some people are into that and you're gonna ick some people by being that person but you know what's interesting to me is i think people generally get the ick around people where they they have been given enough rope to hang them if that makes sense meaning explain that well if somebody is conscientious kind and you know make somebody feel liked and don't play any games whatever you're way more likely to have room to get the ick that rather than if you're dating a person who's a little bit toxic who keeps you on your toes you don't know where you stand I think that person can put their hands up in a roller coaster as much as they like and you you're just too focused on whether they like you or not that you're not even actually trying to pick up on these little things

that can put you off which I think is interesting because I think that speaks also to maybe how available you should make yourself an early dating to someone you know maybe the ick is a combination sometimes anyway of just somebody feeling that they have us now I so I find that to be a really really really interesting point and I think there's a lot of truth to it i think when our bandwidth is taken up with that feeling of do i even have this person you know you're sort of second guessing whether they're into you they do seem like they're into you but they also seem slightly unavailable and you're like i need to lock it down then there's then all of your all of your bandwidth is going to that mission when you do have time as you say to kind of step back and feel completely and utterly

safe in every way you start looking for is almost like we start looking for faults now what i find interesting about that is okay in early dating you we do sometimes come across as too available right there's a and that's not game playing to to be slightly unavailable it should come from an authentic place of someone hasn't become your world instantly they are still someone that you're getting to know you do have other things that are important to you in life and you you don't just kind of every time they reach out drop everything to have conversations for hours and hours and hours they feel your absence at times and that makes them think about you and imagine you and wonder what you're thinking and wonder if you're into them on the same level that they're into you and there's that kind of

romance plot line in a relationship what i'm curious as to what you think is the answer both of you to when that when you really do feel safe and when it doesn't feel like it's appropriate to appear in any way unavailable at least in the context we would think of it in early dating and therefore the ick sets in because people get comfortable and they start to take each other for granted and one of the key kind of we all do it to an extent right with everybody with family members we do it with friends we do it with luck with partners long term when we get when we start to take for granted all of the wonderful things about them, we start to focus on the things about them that frustrate us, that annoy us. And that's a very easy thing to do.

How do you combat that in a long-term situation? Well, there you are talking about the deeper ick of the deeper things that come out, right? I don't know if i differentiate in other words in a relationship something highly highly superficial can start to bother you that didn't bother you before because you've almost because as a result of you've started to take that person for granted i have a controversial opinion on the subject would you like to hear it this is a family podcast you know what don't worry about it no we're okay okay then fine i blanked anyway can't remember it um no i think people get comfortable with their partners and they forget that they have to feed the flame of

attraction and I think they step into the territory of you know hanging out with their best friend or hanging out with their family member and that's not to say that you shouldn't feel like you can be yourself around your long-term partner you absolutely should but I think you need to remember that is somebody in front of you that still needs to find you attractive they still need to find you sexy and so you don't need to reveal every single part of yourself all the time to them and you should be making maybe not as much of an effort but certainly you know close to as much an effort as you were when you were first dating there's a it could be argued i'm not saying this is right but it could be argued

that you should definitely make as much effort well you can't you can't make as much effort as you did because you see each other all the time so there's by default going to be moments where you know you're going to be lounging around in your pajamas all day, not having showered or you're going to be not wearing makeup if you're a woman or whatever. There's going to be moments like that. Whereas in early dating, you can make sure that every single time you see each other, you look like you look your best. Right. But I think the point is, on a regular basis, you should be reminding your partner of your best so that they don't forget how attractive and hot you are and you you don't need to I mean this is I don't know if you guys have particular

thoughts on this but you know this I have uh I'm scared of going for like for a wee in front of you and I never ever let you near me in the room I don't even like it if you can hear it and obviously there have been moments where you've had to or you have heard me go for a wee or whatever but I'm just very very strict about that because I get very nervous now someone might say well that's ridiculous you guys have been together for ages you're engaged you're in love it's fine but I don't know that it is because do they really need to see that much of you? Do you really need to see that part of me? I'm with you on that.

I think couples have very different rules on those things. But I always feel having some defined boundaries on just like if it's bathroom and toilet stuff and things like that. Right. and toilet stuff and things like that right it just once you cross too many there is a thing of you're taking away all form of mystery and all form of we are still what's the word i i don't know if it's separate it's not like we're creating so much mystery but it's something about like there's parts of you that i don't see and and i think is even the same where you say like you both like just do things where you change environment you dress up you go out all those things you just start to not just see it as this is just my cozy couch buddy

and i know all their dirty habits and everything else it just kind of like take something you know i'm a big believer in go on get get ready either at different times or in different bathrooms when you're going on a date together if you live together right because there's and this isn't always practical so take it what I'm saying with a pinch of salt, but I do think, I believe in the logic of it. That when you go on a date with someone in early dating, you are just showing up. And I mean this not towards any gender, I mean to each other. You're just showing up to the end result. But you're not showing up to the process and when we are in a long-term relationship

with someone we become kind of intruding constantly on the process and so you never really get that before and after effect you know it's like you can get you can you can be getting ready for a date with your partner and by the end of it you you kind of get you can get you can you can be getting ready for a date with your partner and by the end of it you you kind of get to dinner and you can realize you've forgotten at any point to tell them they look gorgeous yeah but the reason you didn't is because there was no reveal you you kind of they seamlessly sort of changed it's a bit like you you don't notice yourself getting taller when you grow up you know you don't notice yourself getting taller when you grow up you know you if your partner is getting ready to you for next to you the whole time you're

sort of not you're not realizing that they're changing and glowing and doing their makeup or putting on their their great suit or whatever you're not really noticing those steps when you see a man sort of putting on his socks and like awkwardly trying to shuffle his that's definitely gonna be some tiktok woman's ick is a man putting on his socks but you're not seeing the guy showing up looking like james bond out of nowhere you're you're seeing james bond sort of awkwardly adjusting his boxes under his trousers before he tucks his shirt in and like that's not that's not part of that attraction uh you know the contrast that creates attraction is like you were in your pajamas i clicked my fingers and all of a sudden it's like boom there you are and i think that that can almost be a metaphor for relationships

in general is that when you're so close to process all the time when you're so close to every moment every iteration every bathroom break every then you're no longer getting the different versions of this person that the that are the way that the rest of the world sees them. Which I also think is why occasionally getting to a party together or even just a public place, looking, both of you looking your best and remembering in that moment that there are people staring at your partner who have no idea or care for any of the things that could be the ick but just see this hot person that they would go home with is a very powerful thing because by watching people's reaction to your partner you remember what

your own reaction to your partner would have been in that moment yeah and that reacquaints you with it and it reacquaints you with a mild sense of albeit in a potentially safe environment in a relationship it reacquaints you with a mild sense of danger and of oh you know there's there's other people that would want this person and i'm reminded of that now there's a slight competitive spirit that comes in with that and so on so a reclamation that comes in with that you know after a night out in public so all of those things i think are really really important and interesting long term let's say in long term like things going back to ick like things that will kill a relationship i totally agree with everything you're saying and i think

it's really important to not let the attraction die in that way when there's things that like break a relationship is it is it not more like we have to look at the repeated things we're doing that are like say it might be someone just feels like oh this person i'm with there there was something really great about them when i met but they've like lost all their drive and now they just don't they just don't ever go for anything or they don't ever like surprise you or they don't give a crap about their fashion sense and they're happy to be a slob and in a way it's like a slow decline to something breaks and then there's like ick i'm not attracted to this person anymore because like i've lost an amount of respect or desire or something for them or like they used to have something great and now they're just like

nitpicky and complainy and negative or whatever maybe it's my turn to say something slightly controversial but i think if our partner has become that we have to take some responsibility for that in other words why in the beginning of dating or a relationship does a person try? Why are they ambitious? Why do they go out of their way to look their best? Because they're motivated to. And they're motivated to because we haven't decided we want them. And they're trying to make us certain that they're great and that we want

them. And at a certain point, it's not that it's our fault that someone stops trying. I wouldn't go into that territory but if someone no longer thinks there's any point in trying somewhere along the way we've made life too easy on them somewhere along the way we've we've failed to communicate that they're actually these things are noticed or that it's not pleasing or interesting to us, or that them in their pajamas all day, every day is not, uh, is it becomes monotonous and that we've missed seeing them at their best. We have to take some responsibility for that. There's a lot of people in relationships that complain about things their partners are doing. But if you ask them, have you in a meaningful way had these conversations? They haven't because they're challenging conversations to have. But if you want to become challenging again, you have to be willing to have those kinds of challenging

conversations. Instead of just complaining, they never do this anymore. And in the process, we enable them and they no longer feel like there are any, well, why would I bother? That's on, by the way, they need to own that because that's just a lazy, awful mindset for a relationship on their part. But we need to own our part and say, have I actually communicated to someone that, hey, this isn't what I signed up for? And do they feel a sense of we're taking charge in our lives and we expect the same of them in certain ways. There are always graces in relationships. There are always compromises. There are always things that, you know, we all, I'm not saying, you know, some point in our life, even if it's circumstantial and it's down to the fact that we're working so hard or that we are struggling with stress or that we're struggling with the death of someone in our life or who among us is not

going to go through times of increased anxiety or self-doubt or insecurity. You know, these are human things. We want to be in a relationship where these things are not just tolerated but but held with compassion but if someone is chronically um either disinterested or chronically uncaring or not putting any attention into being their best or looking their best or communicating at their best and we ignore that for too long then we have enabled that behavior and and the thing that you know if you want someone to be motivated the way they were when, when you started dating, they have to still feel like there are stakes there. In the beginning of

dating, we feel like there are real stakes. You might not want me. You might not like me. You don't, you know, you may not realize how great I am. I want to show you how great I am. You can't then get into a relationship and remove all the stakes which isn't the same as threatening the relationship every time you don't like something but it does mean that there has to be consequences over time to someone no longer trying or showing up as their best yeah especially if you are which by the way always if you think about it necessitates the leadership of you have to start by showing up the way you're expecting them to show up otherwise you have no credibility in you have no leverage in asking for what you need or want from a person to just jump back for a moment before we kind of start to wrap this

episode up and i'm really interested in people's opinions on all of this i think this is gonna people will have some really interesting ways of looking at this so email us what you think of this what maybe a story you have about this maybe a story of a turnaround from a nick you know is there anything that used to be a nick for you and now you kind of don't see it that way anymore or you have much more compassion towards that thing or even maybe like something completely turned around where you it used to be a nick and now like there's a person you're with where you actually are fond of it maybe there are situations in a long-term relationship where you can relate to the things that I've just said. Maybe you're struggling with a certain ick in early dating.

Email us and let us know, podcast at matthewhussey.com. And by the way, before we continue with our last point, I want to remind everybody that if you are not a member of the Love Life Club, that is the place where we get to coach people in real time. If you've ever asked, you know, how do I get coaching from Matthew or Steven? That is the place where we do it, the Love Life Club. And we have different coaching sessions every month. It's like going to a gym, not just for your love life, but for your life in general and your confidence. If you're really taking your personal growth seriously this year, and you want an ongoing way of doing that through mentoring and coaching. And we also bring in experts as well. We've had Dr. Ramani, we've had Guy Winch,

we've got Ed Milet coming up. We have Lisa Bilyeu. I mean, we have, we've had Esther Perel. We have so many amazing people coming through the Love Life Club and we get exclusive access to them as a small group of people. I promise you, you are missing out if you're not part of this, especially if these things are important to you in your life right now and you love the podcast. This is graduating from the podcast to a much more immersive level of coaching. Go to askmh.com right now before you do anything else, open it up in a browser because there is a 14 day free trial offer where you can join the Love Life Club for 14 days. Give it a try. Join us on some of our live coaching sessions. Maybe

you'll even join me live and get coached by me, or you can send in your questions and I'll answer some of them. And you can join us for a couple of the special guest experts and maybe even a masterclass because we have various masterclasses coming up as well. We have one on confidence coming up for anyone who just directly wants to work on their confidence, not just for their love life, but for every part of their life. All of this is coming down the pipeline with the Love Life Club. It's an amazing place to be and you can join for a 14-day free trial by going to askmh.com. both think would be reasonable advice or insight to give to people in the early stages of dating if they feel like they're writing people off quite quickly based on the ics i think my general view is that people are not open-minded enough at the very beginning of things and you know i've said the phrase repeatedly be open-minded about who you meet and be very very

selective about who you invest time and emotion in i think when you're meeting anyone new at first you should be very open because you probably have a lot of biases and people will surprise you and it's better to park them aside first date look for fun connection do i fundamentally think they're a decent person you can kind of answer those it's like cool okay let's see what they're you can always get judgmental later you can always get judgmental on day two or three if you're not into it so so yeah i think in general you want to cast the net a bit wider earlier on and then reduce the funnel later but you know i mean these quirky things are like i mean these minor ones are obviously very silly i guess if there's something you are just like oh

he goes hunting on the weekends and i'm really against hunting yeah fine like it's probably gonna be a constant issue but you know minor things i would at first be looking for like fun do i think they're a good person would i like spend another hour with them audrey what would you say in the same kind of situation? And what would you say to women, especially who find themselves disappointed by getting the ick, especially when they're sort of that they want to fall for someone they want to be attracted. They want to find someone they really connect with. But then something comes up that kind of turns them off and they find themselves, you know, we kind of could look at people who get the ick as judgmental or closed-minded or whatever and some of that may be true but it's also tremendously disappointing right when we find that we we want to fall in love and yet these things that feel primitive that we have no control over

seem to just happen yeah well i think that's a really really important point because i think it is a really disappointing occurrence for both people um because you you're not dating setting out to get the ick you're dating to find love as you say so um i think something really important to think about and i I just thought this throughout the podcast as we were speaking, and I touched on it earlier as well, is you tend to feel judgment and contempt towards other people when you feel it in yourself or when you're not secure in yourself the most you are able to give grace to other people's shortcomings and other people's yeah idiosyncrasies that you might not be gelling with at first and i think the sign of somebody who is very comfortable in themselves is the sign of somebody who allows people to just be who they are that doesn't mean that people won't necessarily be right for them but i think that tends to be a blanket rule in terms of the ick

which I think as I said earlier is why when you're younger you maybe feel it more because you are more insecure when you're younger you are less sure of who you are so I think that's the first thing I would like to say the second thing is I think sometimes there might be patterns which are kind of toxic patterns around why we get the ick so So for instance, do I get the ick in a toxic way? Do I get the ick when people are showing signs of themselves which are just actually qualities that would make a good partner, whether that's they're being open or they're being themselves and they're being comfortable, they're being vulnerable,

they're being kind. Are those the kinds of things that are putting you off? And I think if the answer is yes it's important to identify those patterns and then you can then look to correct them if you try and see where they come from and you know you ask yourself the right questions as to why do I feel repulsed by this behavior why do I not feel attracted that by that behavior and that's a good place to start and I think it means that over time you might just be giving more and more grace to people and it probably wouldn't be an instantaneous thing but it might mean that you know after three years of doing that you will just naturally be more compassionate towards other people and their traits i agree and i i think it's always a healthy exercise to take a moment to remind yourself what the opposite of those things has felt like in your past.

Yeah. Because everyone has on some level felt the opposite of those things. When someone's not attentive, when they're not open, when they're not vulnerable, when they're not showing us kindness, when they're not open when they're not vulnerable when they're not showing us kindness when they're not showing interest in us we have felt the pain of those things so it's really important when you're sort of it's almost like when you find yourself complaining about something not being exciting enough because and and you, and it doesn't come from a place of this person being boring. It comes from a place of you feeling too safe. Ask yourself or remind yourself, what was it like when I didn't feel safe? Was I happy? What was it like when someone was toxic?

What was it like when someone wasn't vulnerable at all or when they weren't communicative? And it allows us to just start viewing these things in a much more beautiful light. I also would say a good reframe is to take something that you're terrified of being judged for, something that you're terrified of someone making for something that you're terrified of someone making you feel insecure about whether it's a physical feature or a way that you do something or could be your coordination it could be it could be anything but something that it would be so painful for you if someone rejected you on that basis and then look at the basis on which you find yourself rejecting other people because that creates a much more compassionate lens

on those things. Well, this has been lovely. I think this has been a really interesting conversation there's been amazing points from you steven i think that was some really really interesting uh material from you audrey i i'm really excited to hear the listener responses i want to finish steven by you reading out an email that has come into podcast at matthew hussey is this the email where people are saying nice things about me because i think that's the one we should read i don't know if that's the one we're doing now or not steven's steven's deciding so we'll see but i i do want to say before you all listen to this and before you all go, reminder to go and grab your early bird ticket for the virtual retreat over at mhv 3secretstolove.com because there's a free guide there on three specific habits that you can start employing in your life today. They're very easy, they're very simple to

do, but the compounding effects of these three habits will lead to a love life that is full of opportunity. So go to 3secretstolove.com to go and download that guide for free right now. Okay, Stephen, what are our listeners saying? Well, we have one email, Matt, from Kate, who says, thank you for your North Star podcast. This was the solo episode you did recently. And she said, just wanted to say I really enjoyed the podcast. I recently listened to the one about finding your North Star. I particularly liked the part where Matthew was discussing how if we look for the good in people, we can find it through interacting with that intention.

He talked about his own experience with this. It made me think of a book I've recently loved humankind a hopeful history i just want to say i really appreciate how the podcast encourages us to look for the best in each other and seek to understand one another awesome message for our times keep up the awesome work to all of you at the love life podcast kate i love that that's so nice there's also one that feels like that email feels, I feel like that's something that makes us feel seen. Yeah, absolutely. It's so lovely. Well, that's it for today. Thank you so much, all of you. Harry, for running the tech on this. Thanks, Harry.

Harry Hussey, everybody. Stephen, thank you, sir, for always showing up with uh such perspicacity thank you uh my perspicacious pickles peaches puddings plums and pears i can't believe i set him up for that alliteration unintentionally that was steve was that a that was more than a quadruple alliteration yeah i mean i got the P's. There's more where that came from. Incredible. Just incredible. What do you call a... What's the word for when there's five? If you won't say...

A quintuple. Quintuple alliteration. Quintuple. Incredible. Audrey, thank you for joining us. Thank you. It's been so fun. Lovely little treat. And we'll see you all in the next episode of Love Life. Bye. Thanks, guys.