Love Life with Matthew Hussey - 181: How To Deal With The Pain Of Not Getting Closure

Episode Date: September 7, 2022

When a relationship ends, or someone stops calling after several dates, do you need to know why? What does it mean to get “closure” in dating? As humans we put a lot of emphasis on how things end. We want answers: “Was it the way I dressed? Is it something about my body? Or something I did that turned you off? Was it too desperate?!” But what answers are we looking for? And how much brutally honest truth do we really want to hear? Matt, Stephen, Audrey and Jameson try to figure out whether closure is overrated, what explanation we’re owed when someone leaves, and how we can move on from rejection when it happens. --- Join our next Virtual Retreat (November 11th - 13th)! - Claim Your Spot Today at MHVirtualRetreat.com --- Email us! You can get in touch with the show and give your feedback/thoughts at [e-mail] --- Follow Matt on Insta @thematthewhussey Follow Stephen on Insta @stephenhhussey --- Download our free guide at MoveOnStrong.com

Welcome back everybody to the Love Life Podcast with me, Matthew, Audrey, Jameson and Stephen, also known as Jams by this point. We wanted to bring you an episode today that talked about closure. You know, the need that we have for closure with people that were in our lives, but have started to fade out or have gone completely, only we can't seem to let go of them. And we feel like we need answers and we feel like we need an end to the story. And the way that the story did end was unsatisfactory to us and has left us with all of these lingering thoughts and endless rumination. So it's a bit of an episode about moving on. If you're struggling to move on from someone, it's also an episode

about insecurity and the kinds of insecurities that someone fading out leaves us with. It's an episode about ego and how we deal with moments in our dating lives that are crushing to our ego. And this episode might just change everything about the way you feel and give you a genuinely fresh start for the next chapter of your life. you've probably noticed that if you've ever tried to go on a binge of my content i've been doing this for quite some time now i mean somewhere in the region of 15 years and that means that if you have a particular challenge in your dating life, whether you're single and struggling to find someone you're attracted to, whether you've found someone you're attracted to and for whatever reason it seems to have fizzled out before it really

got going, or you're seeing someone long-term but struggling to get to that commitment that you want, or maybe it's a different issue altogether. Well, you've probably noticed that if you try and look for the specific answer I have for your question, there are too many videos to count. And it's like going through the archives of a giant library trying to find it yourself. Well, we have a solution for all of that. If you go to yourdatingsolution.com, you can type in your name, tell our little tool which challenge you have right now in your love life, and it will recommend you the best solution I have for the stage of dating you're at and the issue that you are having. Head over to yourdatingsolution.com and you can get a tailored solution to what you're going through. Go over there now, right before we start this episode. And now let's begin. We have an email, gang.

Ooh. Mmm. This email has sailed its way across the globe. A very special missive, because if you remember a couple of weeks ago, I said, where do we get our least listeners? And I pinpointed that... Which of a piece of data everyone's looking for when they're trying to build a podcast very useful and we looked at you know some of the smaller countries where they come from we found that there was one month where we had one listener

from the democratic republic of congo and lo and behold that one listener has emailed in matthew well can i just say if we are gonna have a listener from the democratic republic of congo i'm at least glad that they are a loyal listener not a one-time listener because we i'll be honest steve we can't afford to lose a listener in the congo not Not at this rate. Well, it depends on what the email says. Okay, yeah, that's true. Okay, is it a good email? It could be.

I am so done with this podcast. Let's, well, subject line. It says, DR Congo listener, it's me. Hey, Matthew. I laughed out loud the other day catching up on old episodes and hearing you all speculate about a tour in congo based on your one subscriber as your audience of one here i can promise that a hundred percent of your fans so far would be in attendance love it i start i started listening after a very sudden breakup some months ago with someone I had a passionate and fast-moving relationship with. One day I was the man of her life and the next day when I had to travel some

weeks for work something didn't click, he's quoting it her words, and it was over. I've since moved back to Europe and she's still in Congo. We're both nomadic humanitarian aid workers and building a stable relationship in our line of work is very challenging i was ready to build our castle to use matt's metaphor but she left the job site with a short text message to pursue an ex-boyfriend halfway across the world i went no contact but she resurfaces again and again with offers of friendship whenever i come back for work trips here in the Congo. Although I've communicated several times I can't be her friend and she should only reach out if something changes for her, she still keeps tabs on me. Anyway, I'm back in Congo now and listening to Love Life in the gym today after she resurfaced again last week to ask for a drink while also

communicating that a future for us will never be in the cards another day trying to learn your biggest lesson if she didn't choose me despite the incredible chemistry that makes her the wrong person if you have a couple of words of encouragement i would be grateful love you all keep up the incredible work and that's from loic i love it and i was going to say loic at one point you said you've moved to Europe and I was terrified that our one listener in the Congo was actually no longer in the Congo but it's okay he's back in the Congo good to hear you're back well I'm sorry I'm sorry that you're going through that and when you look it's what it's hard enough to to try to move on from somebody when we are grieving the

relationship and the loss of that person in our lives but it's it can feel near impossible when that person doesn't actually make it easy for us to move on now i was going to say when that person doesn't let us move on but that would have been a trap. And it's a trap a lot of people fall into is this idea that someone isn't letting me move on. We choose to move on. We must never, ever give that power to somebody else. And there will be situations in life where it is extraordinarily difficult to move on because of the situation we're in. I'll give you an example, Loic. Do you want to hear one that's harder than what you're dealing with right now in terms of someone not making it easy for them to move on. We had an email from someone who is in college,

who was seeing a guy really liked him. They were hitting it off, hooking up, seeing each other regularly. And at a certain point he, she was monogamous with him, but he was no longer monogamous with her and had started saying basically i want to be able to do my thing and so she continued to kind of see him while he was going out and having like one night stands and it would make her deeply unhappy and eventually she said i can't do this anymore you know we have to stop this because this is just making me feel awful well that was fine except they along with a couple of other housemates had signed a lease on a place for a year and so he was not only living with her but his wall was the adjoining wall to hers and And as she put it in her email,

she can hear him having sex in the next room while she's trying to get over him. So there are situations in life that make it extraordinarily difficult to move on. And one would argue that that one is up there, aside from the fact that, let's even look on the bright side of that, you weren't married to him for 10 years. It's a kind of college romance. So to that extent, I'm not minimizing the pain of it, but there's a much worse situation you could have found yourself in. That being said, very, very, very, very

difficult. But even in that situation, you cannot delegate to somebody else the responsibility of helping you to move on or letting you move on. You can't give that power to another person. Even in that situation at college, you could say, my mental health is more important than staying in this house, so I'm going to make it my number one mission to find someone I can sublet my room to, And I'm gonna do that. You could say, I am going to beg one of my other housemates to swap rooms with me and even offer to pay a bit more just so that I can be in a different room in this place because I cannot be in the adjoining room with this person. Or you throw on, every time things start to get hot

and heavy in that adjacent bedroom, you throw on Rick Astley and you Rickroll him on repeat. Blare it. You leave the house and you just, you ruin their mood. That's not bad. I mean. Also a possibility. Why Rick Astley?

Get creative. Rickroll. You ever heard? I don't know if people are still doing this. Yeah. But it was like, you know, the thing to do about five years ago was to just, oh, open up this link. Somebody sent over a great song,

but it wasn't a great song. It was Rick Astley. Wait, how does the song go, Steve? Never Gonna Give, that one? Yeah, yeah, Never Gonna Give You Up. Can't believe Audrey's never been Rickrolled. Wow. I think it's a good song.

That's probably why you've never been Rickrolled, is it wouldn't work on you. It's not the song got popular. I can't remember the name of the person that sent in that email about living in the room next door, but you really, you have options. We tell ourselves like I'm stuck in this situation,

but there's always options and there's always ways. And by the way, you could also, if let's say for whatever reason, she absolutely cannot leave this room. And in the email, she didn't say that. She said, I really love this room, right? Like, I really don't want to move room. I really like my room.

I've got it set up the way I want it and so on. Even if you could not leave that room, you can still stay to your you can you can tell yourself a different story like hey i don't have to unlike other people who are going are they off thinking about me could something still happen who knows you can you don't have that problem you can be like i they're literally with someone in the next room. I am going to move on with my life. I am, I am not this, what could be more of a visceral in my face representation of the fact that this is the wrong person for me. Then I can hear them in the next room with somebody else.

This, you could argue that one thing it gives you is you are robbed of the fantasy of the fact that it it might still be something or that this person is is is this incredible person that you've made them out to be so and in the case of loic in congo i would say you don't have someone in the next door room you're allowing someone to reach out to you because you either still have them on your social media or because you haven't told them hey no stop texting me I am moving on and you've made it quite clear that you want me to move on so that's exactly what I'm going to do. And I don't want you to be texting me anymore. That's how to stop someone. And if you're not saying that, then you have to ask yourself,

Loic, why am I still holding on? Because that's a version of still holding on, is not telling someone that because you're hoping that it might lead somewhere your job is to take ownership of your own breakup and you're moving on and you do that by setting boundaries now in the wake of the breakup as i said i'm sorry you're going through this um but the sooner you actually break ties with this person the sooner you can move on and find something else that is going to make this less and less relevant in your life well audrey and i just got back from las vegas from Las Vegas. Yup. Here we go. Go on.

Did you sneak off and do the marriage quickly? Is that what's happened? You know what happened in my head? Like as soon as you said we snuck off to Vegas and there was that pause, I just immediately imagined, Viva Las Vegas. But like Guy Ritchie did that.

Was that Snatch? Oh yeah. In the movie Snatch, every time anyone mentioned gambling or something, it just cut to, Viva Las Vegas. Well, we would do that in this podcast were we to be able to afford the rights to that. Thomas, if you can just find a sort of

copyright-free version of that. Maybe, Steve, you just sing one right now and then we just put that in. Or just take the one Jameson did and we'll just loop that. Viva Las Vegas. Viva Las Vegas. Viva Las Vegas. I'll just keep doing it live.

That way it's just easier for you, Thomas. Never mind. Well, Steve, I posted a picture of me and Audrey on that trip in a really lovely moment. We'd just walked into the hotel and there was a beautiful sort of garden inside the hotel you know very over the top vegas style and uh posted this lovely romantic picture of me and audrey uh one of the first dms that came back uh someone said she tried and you didn't and i'm sorry about the that dm but it was necessary it's from my burner account but it just seemed i'm sorry you the that dm but it was necessary it was from my burner account but it just seemed i'm sorry you cut out for a second she said what she tried and you didn't dot dot dot

oh right saying look how beautifully she got dressed up and you standing next to her look like garbage no babe you didn't look like garbage i think it's because you wore trainers and i wore heels did matt have like a pizza stained white t-shirt sort of scratching his belly scratching his belly shorts pulled down scratching his girdle on his belly was not wearing a girdle i i had to get ready in the middle of a work day in on we were left on thursday evening and i audrey said to me we should pack the night before and i was too tired and i said look we'll just pack tomorrow let's just pack you know find 30 minutes between meetings and she got to say i told you so because it was a disaster and i was

just throwing stuff in a case i but i didn't say i told you so you didn't you didn't but you did just give me a look right now as if to say i told you so but they i would have packed like a suit or something i would have packed something good because vegas is the one place you can get away with anything you really can in la you almost unless you're winning an oscar there's essentially no opportunities to put a suit on but yeah vegas vegas you could go total slob or you can dress to the nines in a tuxedo and it's all fair game either way no one is going to judge you no apart from that woman on instagram right and and i i sort of felt bad because i felt like you know what i i could i should have packed like a nice suit or something and um and i just i just ran out of time packing so and i did you know you did you out you

outdid me you looked you looked wonderful in your emerald green shiny dress and there i was looking like i was a crew member on a tv shoot or a wealthy tech billionaire which only works i think if you're a wealthy tech billionaire i see i don't think it works if you're just me so apologies out there to those of you that were offended. I will do better next time or we'll just dress Audrey down. No, we're not dressing me down. I'm not dressing me down. I looked great. So we're still keeping me exactly as I was.

Now, Melissa has left a review on iTunes, which I thought I'd read. You know, again, this is a review that has started with, because Matthew told me to. So it's quite a few of those. I wonder, wonder why that is. Well, I just, listen, you don't have to start with because you told me to. So not only are you going to make them review, you're not going to dictate what they should be saying. I wish I had the power to make someone review lord knows we'd have thousands a day if i had that power but here he goes again all i'm doing is is asking for people to go and review the podcast and uh and you know people start in the review with because you told me to just just just tell us so melissa from australia keeping keeping in the flower flung theme uh i pulled this one

from itunes australia to mix it up a bit oh of course because it's different ones for different regions oh it's opened up the world to me steve go around the world reading reviews uh well she says i thought i'd leave a review as matthew has become has been begging for it for quite a few episodes now unbelievable i've listened to this podcast and followed Matthew's advice on all socials and YouTube for years. I love the banter between you guys. It's a really easy and informative podcast to listen to while relaxing with a nice big cup of hot coffee or cocoa. Keep up the great work guys. Sending love fromralia i suppose that's sort of also a reference to the time that it would come out for her it's probably either the end of the night

hence the cocoa or at 5 a.m hence the coffee because we all know that people often just wake up to listen to the podcast right when it gets released you say that but there's a there's actually one of our listeners said, on the emails, said, I wake up early just so that I can squeeze in your podcast in the morning. I do that with one of my podcasts. I listen to it the day it comes out because I love it so much.

Wow. My sarcasm stands humbled and corrected. Well, thank you, Melissa. And I won't, I'm not going to say if you'd like to go and leave a review at iTunes, it would mean the world to us. And we absolutely do read every one of them. I think you just said it.

No, I won't. I'm not going to ask this time. I'm not going to say that, that it actually is one of the more meaningful things you can do once you've listened to this podcast is to go there and tell us how you feel about it. I won't, I won't do it again because it hurts too much when people mock me for it. I think you've shown a lot of restraint. Thanks, Jay. We have a voice note here. I have put out the word

that we would love some voice notes from people in the emails, podcast at matthewhussey.com. We, of course, have said for the last couple of weeks, if you leave us a short voice note, we might actually play it on the podcast. And we've been listening to all of them. If you send it, we generally listen to it. The only ones that we haven't listened to, and I'll be honest here, is if you send us one that's really lengthy. And there have been a few of those. So I'll just give a little

tip. If you keep it under 30 seconds, it's much more likely that we will have the opportunity to listen to it and play it. But there are, of course, there are some one to two minute ones that we've listened to. And even, I think there's even a two minute one that we're playing today. It might even be this one. I think it's this one. Very good. So this is Mary, but in future, you might not be as lucky as Mary if it's two minutes long. Try to keep it to 30 seconds, at least under 60. You're very managerial today. Am I? Yeah.

Do you like it? I like it. I don't know why I said today as if you're not like that every single day, from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep. Okay, well, I'll... And you're still with with me so you do like it so here is mary's voice note hi matthew and team i wanted to take a moment to thank you so much for the content on your podcasts and in the love life club i had a very challenging breakup

where my ex basically changed his mind about getting married and about having children. It totally reversed the course that we had been set upon for many, many years. And I had no roadmap for how to heal from it or where to go from there. The content on your podcasts and in your Love Life Club provided me with the roadmap that I needed to heal, recover, reimagine my life, embrace my authentic interests, better understand myself. And I really went on a journey for six months, delving into your content and using it as a guide for me to recover and also for me to thrive, not just survive, but actually thrive in the next chapter of my life. I'm so grateful to you and your team. The content that you have is applicable in so many contexts, even beyond love. It relates to

so many disappointments and losses. It really transcends the romantic situations that might initially bring us all to your content to begin with. And it's very applicable to other parts of life. So thank you so very much for all the time that you dedicate to this. And this is really a huge contribution to the world. And it hugely contributed to my life because it enabled me to recover from my situation within six months, put myself back out there, embrace my interests, delve into new adventures and become excited about life. And a couple of a few months after, it was probably about seven, eight months after my breakup overall, it actually led me to find love again because I was living my authentic

life and absolutely in love with my life. So I'm super grateful in my personal life. I've benefited from your content immensely. And please just keep doing what you're doing because you're contributing an enormous amount to the world. I absolutely love that. I honestly, when I first heard this review, it actually brought a bit of a tear to my, you were next to me, so you know this, it brought a bit of a tear to my eye because I just think what an absolute, you know, having your world turned upside down like that and the way that she's been able to bounce back for, I don't know, I just think it's really beautiful. Also, she has the most amazing voice, don't you think? She'd be such a good broadcaster.

She's so articulate and just has a beautiful voice. Thank you so much for that voice note, Mary. I loved it so much and I'm so glad that you've met someone and have found love again. It's such a big compliment. I couldn't agree more. And thank you for seeing us as well because the comment you made about this podcast transcending dating and love advice is

exactly what we have been doing and sowing the seeds for for 15 years the love advice is just a way in as we've always seen it but everything else people get from it that is applicable everywhere in their lives and even just to themselves in their own company is one of the fundamental reasons that we do this so thank you for acknowledging and seeing us for who we are as well. We wanted to do as a main topic today, the idea of closure and why it is that we seek closure to the extent that we do? Why we have such trouble moving on from certain people? And the surprising difficulty of moving on from someone that we started to like, but who either ghosted us, did the slow fade, or simply met somebody else? And why it can be so hard to move on from someone that we never really even had a committed relationship with

in the first place. What makes us look for closure? And is it really the smart thing to do to spend our time looking for closure instead of moving on? And as you're listening to this and we kind of discuss this, I want you to ask yourself the question, is there someone in my life. Because I hope that what we do here today, this discussion will help you finally make some peace and move on so that you can find something better. Because it's really hard to do that when we're stuck in a loop of rumination about somebody

who's not in our lives and not meeting our needs. They're not even in our lives anymore. I just noticed so much in our emails, in correspondence we've got all through the years how much people are desperate for like a magic bullet answer like if i if if i just understood what happened or what changed or i don't get why this person faded out and i guess my issue with it is how much, why do we make this such a big deal, such a big part of what we need? Like, life does not give us satisfying solutions, closure, like a movie. Life does not close every loop for us. We don't get a finality to every story to every friendship to every missed opportunity but people find it so hard to not have that in the scenario of getting flaked on

jameson do you think that people look for closure from a practical point of view like they're actually trying to kind of do better next time or they're actually trying to kind of do better next time, or they're actually trying to learn something and improve what they do? Or do you think that it's much less kind of utilitarian than that? You just think it's like scratching a wound? I think it's deeply emotional. It's's not i don't think it's practical almost ever really i mean maybe sometimes it will accidentally be a be a sorry practical because someone will accidentally like say something and like oh wait what you mean i have bad breath you know and then they will end up being shamed into brushing their teeth more but i think it's almost invariably people, you have a deep-seated need for a sort of satisfaction of like the story needs to have a tidy end to it.

And I think that's probably deep-seated in our genes. And I think culturally, it's just we figure that out with like TV shows, movies, and stories. We need satisfaction. Even when you plan out the perfect satisfaction, like the ending to Game of Thrones, still not quite satisfied, are we? It's like this deep-seated root. We'll never be satisfied because, I don't know, we just need that perfect bow on everything.

I think that's a really interesting perspective. We are, you know, there's an idea in a lot of magazines, for example, will use the idea of the open loop in their copy. So Cosmopolitan on the front of Cosmopolitan will be an open loop. It will be a headline that's designed to make you need to know what that thing is you know the the three things no one ever told you about great hair and you feel like you must turn to page 73 to know what those three things are. We have this inherent need to close a loop. And so I do think that that plays into it, James, and I think that's a huge thing.

I also think there may be this added almost, this visceral, almost biological kind of desire for survival that makes us go, if someone rejected us, why? What was that? I remember in the movie Alfie, the new Alfie, not the Michael Caine version, but where actually, Stephen, maybe you can tell me if this is in the michael cain version i'm not sure but jude law says to i think it's susan sarandon

he says and now of course he's been seeing her as a kind of fun romantic fling and all of a sudden she's not giving him attention and she stopped calling and she's an older woman. But he decides he wants to pursue her seriously. Right. And he learns that she has started seeing somebody else. And he says to her, why? Like, what does he have that I don't? And she says, he's younger and it's funny because there's this for him it almost feels like the desperation in his voice there's like a survival mechanism there that's like half terrified because it's our insecurity that's well what is it is it the thing i'm most afraid of that is the reason

you don't want me and if it is that thing does that confirm the fact that i'm never going to be truly lovable or that i'm i'm never going to find anyone or i'm always going to be alone but i do think there is a kind of survival instinct and that's in his voice when he says that what is it i need to know what does he have that I don't? And of course, she says he's younger, which is an incredibly cutting remark that he hears when he's being left on the sideline for a younger man it's his one of his worst fears but so and that kind of brings up to me the duality in a way between our survival instincts sinus kind of says i need to know but then is knowing better yeah because in that case he can't do anything about the fact that someone is younger than him. So it's not, it's almost not useful information to him other than

as some kind of reality check, I suppose that we're all getting older and none of us can win that battle for life, but it's, it's sort of redundant information. And so I think we all have to kind of weigh up sometimes. My desire to know is on some level, as Jameson said, a desire to complete the story. I need to know. And in another sense, I think it combines with this desire for survival. And therefore, I must know, am I truly unlovable or am I going to get out of this thing alive? Am I going to meet someone? Am I going to find what I'm looking for? But is the answer something that's worth having or is it just something that is going to hurt my self-esteem

for no reason at all? And that's tricky. That's a tricky question because there may be certain things that are useful to hear. If we've been walking around, as Jameson said, with bad breath our whole life and someone finally gives us the level of honesty of saying, hey, you should really look into this because it was enough to, as we've talked about in previous episodes, give me the ick. You know, it was enough to turn me off viscerally. So you should really get that checked out. That's something that's actually worth knowing because that might be hurting us in every situation we go into. But if someone says your nose is too big, then you may say, well, this is not helpful. What do I do with that information? I also think there's a third reason why people try and seek answers and explanation. And it's because the reality is hurtful. And so they're looking for a kind of alternative reason. So hearing, I just feel like, you know, I don't like you enough.

Or I don't feel for you what I would like to feel for you. Or I think I could get someone better, or whatever it is. These are all the kinds of reasons why people leave all the time, every day. But they are the kinds of reasons we don't want to hear about ourselves. So sometimes when we look for a deeper reason, it's to almost safeguard our ego into thinking it's because that person just didn't like us enough because that's such a brutal reality and it's a reality which exists for everyone so it's not something that we should actually feel that offended over it just means

that person wasn't the right person for you you know we're all just as capable of feeling that way about somebody else as they are about us. But I think sometimes, you know, the action of someone walking away and saying, actually not for me, majority of the time it's probably just because they didn't feel whatever it was they wanted to feel with this situation. But we find that to be such a jarring and difficult explanation, I think. So people try and dig further and further to go, is there something more? You're saying it's, it's a hope for them to say, well, really, I'm just very afraid of commitment. And, and that's why I said, I didn't like you that much, because deep down, I'm just afraid. And then you go, oh, okay, that makes sense. And that's not about me.

And that can be fixed. You just have to look at the pattern of kind of, and we all do this. So I think this is just such a human reaction. But you just have to look at the pattern of we always give reasons that aren't to do with us as to why people leave. We don't go you know I wasn't this enough they didn't like me enough we go you know they were avoidant they were too focused on their job they were to this they were to that and I think that's just again it's very

very human I think we do it because it's such a horrible thing to have to think that somehow along the way what the best that we had to offer wasn't enough for someone. But that to me would suggest that you wouldn't look for closure. If you were quite satisfied to make up your own story about why they left that had nothing to do with you or anything you'd done wrong, you wouldn't even look for closure, right? Because you'd know that closure could ruin that story for you if you heard something you

didn't want to hear i don't think it's all that conscious i think it's more that we we don't want to reach for it's occam's razor you know the kind of the most probable explanation is the right one it's the right one. And when somebody leaves, unless there's a really glaring thing, it's probably just because they're not feeling it, right? But that's a really horrible thing to say. People don't want to say that about themselves. People don't want to say this person left me

because they didn't love me anymore or because they didn't like me enough. So I think that people just dig further to try and find something that stands outside of themselves and doesn't make them feel you know like it like it's so personal i understand if we're in a long relationship obviously if someone just books and leaves with no explanation obviously that is very traumatic and you know can leave you completely confused and scarred but but we people also talk about closure from things

that were quite short term and it's like do you want to if someone flakes off to say a couple of dates do you you know if that's happened to me before which it it has it's happened to lots of people and you don't have to cry tears for me because i've had successful ones as well so it's all good but i've had people that have flaked after a couple of dates or from like tinder or whatever and and my thing is always well I don't need to hear I assume I'm not some people's cup of tea I don't need to hear every reason I'm not different people's cup of tea or something about us wasn't compatible or there was something about the way we vibed on date that they weren't feeling or physical stuff, whatever. It's like, I don't really bothered about every reason why that is. I just assume some

people it won't feel like that with. And yes, it sucks when you feel like oh they were nice or that was fun or that was cool they were they're cool and then they reject you that's worse and that happens and that's why people think like what the hell i thought we had a good time that does suck but i also kind of i'm like well if they're not feeling it enough to want to pursue another date, then you've kind of got your answer. It's kind of like, if they're not moved enough to want to text you back after that or whatever, it's kind of like, well, clearly they're not feeling it enough anyway. And I don't need a written explanation as to what happened. I'm interested in the people who do get it and like what i have to offer i don't worry about all the people who don't i agree with that but i feel like there's a bit of an elephant

in the room when it comes to this subject because on one hand it's like you have you have the school of thought that is if you don't like what i have to offer then fine i'll find someone who does and that on one hand is can be an incredibly confident mindset but it can also at its extreme be a mindset that keeps us very rigid in our own kind of growth sure the other side of the spectrum the other school of thought is i always want to hear feedback because i always want to be better or do better which could be seen as a very confident mindset or at the extreme it can be a people-pleasing chameleonizing mindset which is always about morphing yourself to whatever anyone else wants and never about actually just being yourself so in other words both sides have a dark side and a light side. And we, we kind of exist, this podcast, our work,

the things we've created over the years, the programs exist because we believe in improving ourselves in the ways that we can improve ourselves, whether it's improving our confidence, which is a kind of inner game mindset, or whether it's improving our competence, the ability to be interesting in conversation, the ability to be fun on a date, the ability to use the kinds of conversation and techniques that actually connect with someone, the ability to argue well and

productively with another person in a relationship. These are competence based. And so I can imagine someone saying, all of this is great. And it's great for me to go through my life saying, like me for what I have or don't it makes no difference to me I'm just going to find someone who likes what I have but if someone has gone through their life feeling like that's not worked out for them and there is there does seem to be something that is either pushing people away or turning people off or, you know, not allowing people to see how great they are. They want to know what that thing is. I'm not saying everyone who looks for closure is in this mindset. Of course, I think a lot of people looking for

closure just want to be angry. They just want to be mad at someone who didn't want them. But there will be people who in earnest are just saying, I'm trying to find out what's going wrong. And I feel like dating is this interesting area where it's hard to do that. You know, you can in business, if you're a salesperson who does phone sales for a living, you can say to someone, listen in you're coming across a little too desperate or you're being too pushy or you're not actually showing enough excitement about the product. There's all sorts of things people can do. In our dating lives, it's actually a lot harder for someone to get true perspective on what's going wrong. In can't, in other words, you don't typically go on dates with your friends.

So however you tell your friends the date went or however you report the date is just your lens of the date. But typically your friends aren't on the date with you. So even your best friends can't tell you what went wrong on a date. Even when people come to us and tell us what's happening in their love lives, the truth, when you really get behind it and you ask the right questions, is very different from what they think is going wrong. So how do you

think that you solve the problem of getting useful closure in our love lives when we actually want to stop ourselves making the same mistakes over and over again? What's up, everybody? We'll be back to the episode about being able to self-diagnose where our blind spots are and what might be a pattern that's tripping us up in our love lives, we have something that can really help you with that. And it is our Love Life membership. The people that are members are not just watching one of our programs. They're actually involved in live coaching every month. And whether you're one of the people that I coach on one of our live webinars or whether you're somebody who's watching somebody else get coached, either way, you are getting insight into the patterns that mean people don't get the results they deserve in their love life. That's what real coaching is for, is to help us diagnose where we might be tripping up and what we can do differently. This is real coaching. This is

not watching a video on YouTube. It's actually joining us as part of a process month by month so that you can watch your love life improve in real time, as well as your confidence and your love for life. So come join us by going to askmh.com. That's A-S-K-M-H.com, where you can join for a seven-day free trial to the Love Life membership. Try it all out. Watch some videos. Join a couple of live sessions with me or my brother, Stephen, and see how it feels to be making that progress. And if you don't love it, you can hop off at any time. That's askmh.com. So how do you think that you solve the problem of getting useful closure in our love lives when we actually want to stop ourselves making the same mistakes over and over again if you can get a practical answer

in one sentence uh that might help you improve your dating life that's fine but if you find yourself just ruminating paragraphs upon paragraphs of what could have gone wrong, it's probably not helpful anymore. I once, my friend once went on a date and she said to me that she didn't want, I think it was, it must've been this way around. So I don't think she would have done it. She didn't want to see him again. And he texts her, it was after one date. So, you know, pretty early days, but, um, he sent her a message saying no worries at all um but i am wondering if you could give me some feedback as to what i did wrong that made you not want to go on a second date with me very brave question very brave i really she kind of thought it was a bit weird because she said like you know how clinical and kind of you know know, a little bit, I don't know. She found it bizarre,

but I kind of thought it was quite confident, bold, and I admired it actually. So I think, he asked her that. He asked her that. I think, yeah, I think it was that way. It was definitely that way around. Did she give him an answer? That I can't remember. text her right now on air and let's get some good pod my friends all asleep in england so well i i think that's it isn't it we if we were brave enough to kind of push a button and someone give us the honest truth we would hear some helpful things and some unhelpful and also things i also think we sometimes need to hear the most hurtful reason in order to move on sometimes what keeps us stuck is actually imagining that there is a bigger reason than the one that's right in front of us and sometimes i think someone's saying to us you know i just don't want to be with you I'm just

not interested it in the moment it's really helpful it's really hurtful but I think in terms of moving forward where do you go from there right you just go that's not even the most hurt you you were even then you went really easy with it well you wouldn't want I mean yeah you wouldn't want to hear something that was personal and you you know, an attack to your character. But if it's... I'm just running that. I almost want to run that thought experiment all the way through because I wonder if what you're saying contains a real grain of truth

where if we heard our worst fear articulated that it gives us a real shot at kind of just being done with it in a way it's you know i'm imagining like for a guy a guy wants to know like why and what for a lot of guys is going to be the worst thing she could say you have too many freckles were you got were you not going there were you going someplace else i wasn't i wasn't going to go down that specific right um line of thought are you going to go to i'm glad that you went obviously with that hypothetical. I was trying to keep this a family podcast. I knew where you were going.

Well, I mean... Are you going to bedroom insecurities, Mafia? Well, you could easily go there. There's easily a case to be made for that would be the worst thing that you could say to a guy. You're not strong enough? Height?

Like height. You're too... You're just too short I don't it's I find it unattractive and I'm worried that the way we look when we walk around together that you're too short and I think that my friends also think you're too short and that makes me think about them thinking that you're not good enough or that you're not that attractive and their thoughts and opinions mean something to me as well and and so that just really bothers me oh my god I feel like I feel heartbroken well I'm glad that you're doing this thought experiment though because it's just like as you're as you're saying it I don't know where you're even ending up

on this but I just I'm thinking of when this could be helpful to people. And I just think the percentages are so minuscule that I'm just, I'm in much more Stephen's camp, I think, here. Where it's just, you're looking for satisfaction, watch yourself look for satisfaction and realize that that is just a waste. But it's really, it's sort of interesting to, this thought experiment is interesting to me because it... Go on, Audrey. I'll let you jump in before I keep going because you seem like you really want to say something. Well, no, it was kind of the point I was trying to make

is I think if you can change it, if it's something that you can actually improve upon, then I think it is helpful. Or if it's something that is just a fact of life such as I don't love you anymore or I just don't like you enough or I don't feel what I would like to feel at this point I don't feel the connection that's hurtful but it's not it doesn't feel personal and it's not something that you can't change that's that's um a direct attack on character, on yourself as a person. I think if it's something like you're too short,

what the hell are you going to do with that information? But what are you going to do with, I'm just not as into you as I want to be? What if someone said to you, well, tell me what would help and I'll change it. No, but I think if someone says, I'm just not feeling what I would like to be feeling in this moment, you just go, this isn't my person person but what someone's fear is then what someone's

fear is in that scenario is if someone said that to you after two years someone's then like well if i what if i get another boyfriend and after two years he just says that and what what if he just out of the blue decides he doesn't fancy me anymore you know i mean like that but what about you're not going to get a map of someone's exact blueprint of feelings and go okay well if next time i take this other path then then that's gonna help me with this i i don't know how much it's gonna help you i i i actually weirdly i'm in two minds about it because on some level i'm just like knowing knowing the reasons someone may reject you just makes you more sure of what you're looking for, which is someone who accepts you. Someone who actually doesn't care about that thing or someone who loves you for that thing.

I think it's just traumatizing is what I think. I think it would just be so painful. Here's where I agree with you Audrey because they kind of fall into two categories they can either be something that you already feared and had to kind of maybe at some point in your life you had to grow to become indifferent to that thing you didn't like about yourself or that physical feature, or you maybe went even one step further and you kind of learned to like it or even love it. And then someone points out the exact thing that you used to hate and that can run the risk of

setting you back. Or if you've never really made peace with it, then it just aggravates something that's already there. The other category is when someone says something that you hadn't thought about. You know, like if someone notices you're going bald before you did, you know what I mean? I always think the first step of an insecurity is someone says something once that you've never heard before and the first time you hear it you go well that's weird like i don't i don't think that about myself or i never thought that was something that wasn't attractive on my body or my face or about me. And then if someone says it a second time, you go, wait a minute. What, what is this?

Is this a thing? And then someone says it a third time or someone else says it and you go, oh my God, I hate this thing about myself. You know, the first time it's just surprising. But said enough times, you start to then adopt it as an actual complex, as a stigma, as a complex, I should say. And to your point, Matt, the personality things come less frequently, but occasionally we might get some honest feedback where, you know, if you have a pattern of something, someone might say,

oh, do you know what you come across as like super aggressive, like, you know, if you have a pattern of something, someone might say, oh, do you know what you come across as like super aggressive, like, you know, someone will give you something, some bit of feedback, or we'll hear from people who say, I've been on all these dates. And then someone, some guys tell me they only see me as a friend, or they don't look at me in a sexual way or something. that's where i will agree some parts of feedback might be a kernel of something useful whereby knowing the fact that no one sees you as more than a friend or no one sees you as a sexual person or something might go oh there's a vibe i'm putting out here that isn't getting me attraction and there's a pattern or people find me super aggressive and

i end up in debates and arguments on my dates instead of ever actually having good dates and connecting some bit of feedback or pattern there might be a useful opening for growth this is why i know i'm harping on about this but but I do kind of think we're arriving somewhere. Because if you hear everything there is to hear about yourself, like at first it's just fear, right? We go through life terrified of hearing something we won't be able to bear, that we won't be able to tolerate.

And what's funny about looking for closure is that we're like walking into a room that we don't actually able to tolerate. And what's funny about looking for closure is that we're, we're like, we're like walking into a room that we don't actually want to be in and looking for answers that we don't actually want. But it's like, we can't, we're like a moth to a flame. Like it's no different to knowing that your partner cheated on you and then asking for very, very specific details about what they were doing and you know it's not it's like someone says to you in a room do you know what she told me something she thinks about you you couldn't not say you couldn't not ask what it is even if she's a stranger she told me something she thinks she's thinking about and it becomes a form of self-harm

almost we're just looking to scratch an itch i think of it that way i actually think that's a very apt analogy for it is you get you get bitten by a you know a mosquito you know that it's not good to scratch it but it's itching and you can't help it and i think that to me is sort of akin to the way that we look for for closure on certain things or the way that we pick at things that are only going to make us feel worse. And I think at a certain point, you have to just say, that's that. And hearing it might be an opportunity for me to say, that's just that. Like if I, if you have, if someone says something to you that you fear the most, you have the opportunity to just say, oh, that's just what it is. And I said something to Audrey Jameson at the airport when we were coming back from Vegas. Cause when we were coming back, the video that we did, uh, which was a review of our old video, who should pay on a date came out.

But what was interesting is in the comments, some people, there were women who were saying, this is, you know, you're, you're still not taking into account these things for women and you don't get it.

There were men who were angry in the complete opposite direction who were saying why did you pull back from your original vid not that i don't even think we did pull back but they were just mad that we didn't sound as mad and they were like you know i don't know why you know the original you on stage was unfiltered and this is like a kind of sanitized version of the video which i understand what they were saying, but that was never our intention. It was just done with a different tone. But the feeling I got when I read all those comments, and it's not a new feeling. Obviously, we've been making videos for a long time, but it was a really important reminder i just looked at audrey and i just said

you really have to just go in and say whatever you feel is true and and be bold about saying whatever you feel is true and being whoever you are and leaning into that because no matter what it's never going to be enough it's never going to be enough for the people that think i'm not standing up enough for women it's never going to be enough for men who think that i'm not standing up enough for men. It's always, every video we do is going to fall short of something for someone. But I think I just had yet another wake-up call in life where I just went, you know what? I'm really just going to make videos

that I think are great and true to the best of my ability every time I do it. I'm not, whatever is still in me that is going, oh, but we should be careful because this might, this one person might think this or this other person might think that or whatever. Just enough, enough. I just want to make videos that I think are great and saying something important. And it's not going to account for everybody. It's just going to be, I'm going to know what I mean

and I'm going to do my best to say that. And then we'll move on to the next video. And if I get something wrong, I'll correct it. If I keep hearing a piece of feedback that I think is actually true and I need to actually adjust course, then I'll correct it. If I keep hearing a piece of feedback that I think is actually true and I need to actually adjust course, then I'll adjust course. But, but that's, that is the best I can do. And I think that you could apply the same approach to dating where you say, I'm not going to ignore everything people are saying to me. Because that's kind of a form

of arrogance and ignorance and fear, which is just, I'm not going to give myself the capability of evolving. That I don't think is a good stance to take. And if you keep hearing something over and over again, or getting the same feeling over and over again, then it's worth assessing what's happening. But you should also go on every date just going, I'm going to be the best version of me that exists and lean into how I feel about things or lean into what excites me, lean into the things that make me, me. I'm going to do that in, in the wider macro, in the wider context of continuing to try and improve myself. But in the moment, I'm just going to be the me is me, the best me, but the me is me the best me but the me is me right and and that's going to be enough for today it may not be enough for tomorrow because tomorrow i might want to improve something about myself

but it's gonna be enough for today and what about what would you say to people who are still looking for the reason why somebody left or somebody didn't want them and they can't seem to be able to move on until they have that piece of information? What about to those people? Because I think that that's really… Apply it forward thinking, not backward thinking. So, in other words, it's worth asking the question, could I be doing anything better? That's a question worth asking. So that would be, you could be brave enough to say to someone, hey, as awkward a question as this is, and I have broad enough shoulders to hear the truth,

is there anything that made you feel this way? Because I want to be better in my life and I'd love to be aware if there's something I did that caused this. And so you could be brave enough to ask that question. But I also think that when people get one of our programs and they read all about the attraction formula, what that gives you that I think is very useful is there are four components to deep and lasting attraction so there's visual chemistry there's perceived value perceived challenge and connection

and when you look into each of those four things and what they mean and how you do them. I think what it does is it gives people a model to go, which part of these am I not doing a great job of? So maybe I'm creating a ton of value that would be perceived value. Maybe I'm showing an insane amount of value in the way that I treat someone by doing things for them, by having great conversation, by being generous, by being thoughtful, by adding to their life. But I'm doing a really bad job of creating any perceived challenge because I'm not showing someone that there's any real price to pay for all of that value. I'm giving it from a people-pleasing mindset. And so despite the fact that I'm giving a ton of value, this person's taking that value

for granted because it doesn't come at any cost. Even if they treat me poorly, even if they don't invest in me, even if they go hot and cold, I'm still at a moment's notice willing to give them all that value. So I think that someone can look at that and go, oh, that's what's happening is I'm not actually challenging this person. Or they might see that I'm adding a ton of value, but I'm not really connecting with this person. So all the value I'm giving is value that I'm used to giving, but it's not based on anything I really know about this person because I'm not asking the right questions to get to know this person. So this person doesn't feel like I uniquely see them or understand them.

This person just feels like I'm a kind of generic people pleaser. So I'm giving a lot of value, but I'm not connecting in a way that makes that person feel seen or understood by me. And we all want to be with someone who sees and understands us. My point is that you can apply the attraction formula. And by the way, the get the guy book, if you want to order a copy of that book on Amazon, I'm not, I'm not even saying this from the point of view of, um, plugging these things. I literally am just trying to think where if someone wants to learn more about any of these things, what's the best place for them to go? But the book is a good introduction. Um, they get the guide book, but my, my point with all of this is that's an, one approach is asking someone, another approach is going to someone like us who has a model and saying, which part of the model do I intuitively feel like I'm not doing a great job

of compared to other parts. And I think people are actually surprisingly good at self-diagnosing once they have a model to work off of. Like a lot of people are pretty good at being like, oh yeah, if I'm honest, I'm not creating enough chemistry because I'm not really flirting. You know, I'm adding a lot of value to someone's life in all of the things I do. But, and I'm connecting because I'm having lots and lots of really deep conversations with them, but I'm not creating chemistry because I'm not really flirting and creating any tension with the person. So I think a lot of people are good at diagnosing those things. But what I'm at the heart of everything I'm saying is that that is a forward looking approach. In other words, if going back to the YouTube thing, I shouldn't sit there and read all of the comments on a video from two weeks ago and lament what I wish I'd done differently in that video.

Instead, you have to say, I'm going to be forward-facing in what do I want to bring to the next person? Or even if it's with the same person, forget what did I do wrong? What did I do wrong? It's just, what do I want to bring that's different to the next interaction with that person? Either because I've had a conversation with them and they've let me know something that I did that wasn't great or something they didn't see enough of and I want to give more of that in the next interaction with them. Or because I've done one of Matthew's programs and I'm now starting to realize there was something I didn't do. But I'm going to bring that to the next interaction I have with that person. And if it's too late and that person's already decided that they're not interested, part of our obsession with closure with that person

and wanting to revive it is that we've convinced ourselves that there is only that person. And that's just not the case. That's just not true. They are not the only person on earth that could make you happy. You did not find the only attractive person that exists. You didn't find the only person on earth that will find you attractive. There are more of them. And you can apply all of these learnings that you're getting to the next person. And I would, I really would encourage someone this is where I will kind of be heavy handed with this one of the bravest things you can do is invest in what we have because it will give you don't then have to scratch your head trying to think of the answer and trying to just kind of search around in the dark for what might be going wrong. You actually can come and take our programs and learn more about what's

happening here. Why am I in a certain pattern constantly? And we've spent 15 years with those patterns. So what might take you years to self-diagnose for us is just like, oh, this is what's happening. This is what's happening. And if you learn about this, it's going to make a difference. We are often better at self-diagnosing or being harsh to ourselves, right? So a lot of these things aren't going to be surprising when you go out looking for satisfaction from somebody else. And oftentimes, let's say someone was brave enough to go ahead and ask that question to somebody like, well, is there anything, any pointers you can give? I think they're most likely going to give something like you said, Audrey, where it's just like, I just wasn't really feeling it. Like I wasn't feeling the sexual connection or whatever.

Okay. So you got that from them, but what do you actually do? I mean, this is why I think it's just a lost cause to do this. I think that is not the route I would give any of my close friends to do. I wouldn't say like, go ask this person and see if you can get an honest answer from them. I'd say, go watch a Matthew video, go buy his book. And be honest with yourself as you're reading and listening about what it's getting at that you might actually be guilty of. Exactly. Exactly.

Because you have probably, if you're a curious enough person that you even asked that question in the first place, you're probably pretty good at a little introspection and a little bit of learning. And in that case, save yourself the awkwardness because they're most likely not gonna give you the satisfaction. Save yourself the awkwardness

and just learn the attraction formula. And I agree with that 100%. The last thing I'll say on this is that it's very tempting to overemphasize the importance of the person that got away and to think that there's something that that you need to go back and kind of fix or change and get that person so that you can finally get closure and know that they didn't get away because of something you did or something that went wrong that you could have changed. It's very easy, especially if we like someone and they were charming and they were interesting and they seem to tick a lot of boxes. If they don't like us or decided to fade out, it's very tempting just to go, I must not be good enough because it's not like I can point to them being a complete douchebag.

It's not like I can point to them being a horrible person. I actually like them and i think they're a great cool quality human being who was really charming and they just didn't want me it's very easy for that to be so crushing because you go and therefore the conclusion is just that i'm not good enough and it the value of that person seems to go up at that point because they didn't choose us and now it's like whoever we get, if that person didn't choose us, then we're still not good enough because we need closure with that person. We need that person to want us again for us to have closure. trap because you you can't you can't go back and be enough for the person who was incapable of seeing your value or for the person that met you at a time of your life where you were still evolving and therefore weren't the you that you are today it's it's it's so pointless to ever worry about who we weren't enough for in the past.

Because you're not who you were in the past. And you can't go back and change the universe to a place where you were ready in the past. Or where you would learn all the lessons in the past. There is someone that will fall for you who someone in that person's past wasn't enough for. Right? Like, my brain goes to whoever you end up marrying, they rejected someone in the past who is a perfectly wonderful human being and turned out to be the most awesome partner ever but the person you're marrying rejected them at the time because that person was still a work in progress at the time or because the work person you're married to was a work in progress at the

time and couldn't see that person's value so it's's kind of like we're all due at some point. Like we're all going to get hit at some point with a rejection, with our ego being crushed, with not being good enough for someone at the time because we just hadn't evolved yet or someone couldn't see our value because they weren't evolved yet. It's a big circle.

It's a big circle. And sometimes it's our turn to get hurt and sometimes it's our turn to be chosen don't distract yourself from the from the moment in your life where it's your time to be chosen by obsessing over a time when it was your turn to be rejected. I think that's really good. And I would just say, I would just close with this, which is that when those things come up that you can't change, like if you're looking for closure and somebody talks about, I don't know, your freckles or whatever else it is that you can't actually change, that kind of feedback and that kind of closure, it should just become very boring to you.

Kind of the same way, like when we talk about time travel or like once I figured out, oh, I don't know if it was Stephen Hawking or someone, I finally kind of figured out like, oh, you really can't go back in time. You really can't do that. Like at a certain point, I figured that out like, oh, back to the future really won't work. If they ever work out time traveling, it'll be more like you can go in the future, right? So now when people, when you talk about going back and changing the past, it's a little bit more boring. It's like, ah, it's kind of just like, it's just, it's boring. It's never going to really happen. I just kind of put those in the same category of like, you don't need closure there. kind of uh insecurity you know that's boring right there

that going back in that alternate universe that's boring there too it's just boring a lot of closure like you always say disinterest is closure and i'm kind of more of the mindset that closure is boring i love that j Jameson says closure's uninteresting. It's great. Matt says disinterest is closure. Jameson is disinterested in closure. Very good. Yeah.

It is that time again for Audrey in the archives. Jameson. What's that? I see you peeking over at a familiar sight. What's that there in the distance? It's Audrey. There she goes, finding her way.

With the spectacles. With her little specs into the elevator as she puts on her rummaging jacket to take her way down into the deep subterranean archives of our content

here we watch her as she ruffles through papers of different magical scrolls different potions designed to make us more attractive, make us confident, bring us to a place in our lives where we're ready to accept love, different tricks and wonders. Oh, Jameson, it looks like she's got something. I wonder what she picked. She's back in the elevator and making her way up to bring us what she has found this of course is audrey in the archives the point in the show where Audrey finds a piece of advice from one of our programs to bring to you now. I wonder if I'll ever stop finding this hilarious. Well. What did you find and where is it from? It's from a program that you created called What Men Want.

And as I was down in the archives, I wasn't sure what to go for. And seeing as we've had a few text messages, I thought I'd change it up. In this program, you talk about the six ways to keep hitting the sweet spot in dating in order to become attractive and more attractive to the person that you're seeing. So you reveal six different ways, but I picked out one of them because I thought it was such an interesting concept. It's pretty simple, but it's genius.

It is, of course, to leave your interactions on a high. What you went on to write is a guy who likes you will initially encourage you to stay longer and longer around him because just like you he's under the spell of the pleasure rush of being with someone new but feel free to leave things on a high when he still wants more. Spend the night at his but have something arranged with a friend the next afternoon. Speak on the phone for a while but then say goodnight while you still have more to talk about. Keep the flame alive instead of letting it burn out every time you see him. I just think this is so clever because I think if you can always leave somebody wanting more and always leave somebody feeling like they haven't quite had enough that's going to make them want to stay around you and want to ask you out again and want to text you and talk to you um so yeah that's what I pulled

out from the archives leave your interactions with them on a high that's very good it makes me think of that Seinfeld episode where George Costanza is always leaving every interaction on a high. That's very good. It makes me think of that Seinfeld episode where George Costanza is always leaving every interaction on a high. Is that where you got that from, Matt or Stephen? Was this your idea? I actually remember you, no, the Costanza reference, I remember you saying afterwards, but I just love the fact that you usually are able to take some piece of our content and boil it down to a george costanza reference yeah he's one of the great the great characters in all of literature that is i agree with that yes it's further to our episode if you get find yourself

getting the same rejection over and over again you can do the george costanza thing where he decides to do the opposite of everything in his life because he realizes everything in his life is wrong so he figures if he just does the opposite of his usual instincts it's when he uh he approaches a he approaches a woman at the bar and just says my name is george i'm unemployed and i live with my parents and she's just like hi i'm karen it starts to work for him i think that's the the episode he gets a job with the Yankees. Everything goes right for him because he does the opposite. Well, before we do our final wrap up, we did get a voice note from none other than Andrea,

who wrote the Jams jingle that you all love so much. And we've had so much wonderful feedback about. How does that Jams jingle go exactly? I'm glad you asked, Jameson. They are the jams, help where they can. Inspiration in life and love and confidence, they'll make you laugh. Sometimes you'll cry and that is why pickles peaches pears we love the jams that of course the jams jingle by andrea gal who has uh also left us a voice note

hey my name is andrea i want to say thank you to the jams. I prefer your longer episodes because I listen to your podcast while I'm cleaning houses, which is a job that I created because I lost mine due to the world circumstances. Cleaning is not my passion. Music and singing, my online brand, Andrea Gal Official, and dreams of having hosting events for women to come and heal, laugh, cry and get hope for their lives while I share my life story and my music with them. Those are my passions. The episode you did on single shaming made me cry. I've listened to it several times because it has deeply impacted my life. I lost my parents at age 27, four months apart. Then I met a man, got married and divorced.

All of this happened within four years. Then all the grieving began and the growing. That episode gave me so much hope that all that I've been through is preparation for a beautiful future. I'm 40. I'm single and I don't want to be anymore, but your advice on weight or create reminded me of all the things I want in life and know that I've been gifted with the talents to actually do. So it's time again to create. Your example of Anthony Bourdain and the age he was when things changed so drastically for him gave me so much hope because at times I felt like it's too late and I'm too old. Thank you for also acknowledging that while I build the life I want, I can still want love and not be ashamed of that.

I love your podcast and just know that you jams are helping a lot of people in this crazy life. Love you guys. So nice. Wow. Wow. That's amazing. That's so nice. Beautiful.

I have to know, and I realized we haven't had an update on this. Is Andrea part of the virtual retreat yet? We said last time that we would find a way to get her there financial constraints or not so let's make that our mission before the next podcast we need an update well yeah i've i've actually reached out to the relevant member of our team who is on it uh actually addressed it this morning so it's underway it's happening all right very timely me mentioning that okay i look forward to hearing how that goes she is going to be there one way or another i promise you that very good thank you andrea gal again andrea's instagram handle is andrea gal g-a-l official go check her out give her a follow after that i mean come on can i just

say she's getting at something so profound that i just want to linger for a second like and i don't even know if i have a point and just to say that andrea i feel you like that feeling of wasted potential is just so painful when you feel like when you know and you're right by the way when you're right when you're andrea and you're actually very talented and you feel like you're just not you have so much to give and it's just not catching the gear you know what do you do i mean what what what kind of firstly andrea i mean firstly you are kind of doing it you you reached out to us and that was really good but i just think this is a good time for matt to work his his. This is when I lean on Matt to, I don't know,

when the world is just kind of painful because of wasted potential. What do you do? I love that she picked up on the Anthony Bourdain thing that I said, because I really believe that we can have a growth spurt at any age or at any age, we can suddenly see the results of a previous growth spurt at any age or at any age we can suddenly see the results of a previous growth spurt the world doesn't always reward you in real time for the growth spurt you're having

sometimes you do a lot of work in private and and you haven't even seen the effect that that creates in the world yet that that might happen in the years to come. So I don't think anyone should ever be deterred by the fact that the internal results they've gotten and the work they've done and the suffering that they've come through that has made them so strong or so wise or so interesting or so empathetic isn't being represented in progress on the outside yet. Know that character, true character being built through difficult times, true wisdom, the truest empathy and ability to connect that comes from going through difficult times, all of that is something that will absolutely affect what happens in your life, the opportunities that come to you, the doors that open, the people that will pay attention to you. So don't ever feel like, oh God, I've done all this work, why is it not happening for me yet?

The fruits of all of that labor could come at any time. And in the meantime, know that who you've become is a reward in itself. And it's actually the greatest reward because whatever results come or whatever doors open, they can also close again. The results can also go away, but character is consistent. Wisdom is something you hold on to. Who you become is an asset that you take forward in every year of your life. What you've done as a human being created a new baseline. So I'm not worried about the results you're not getting right now. I think that the hardest result to get, which is the change in yourself, that is the most amazing reward you could have. And it will produce for you for the rest of your life.

Also, I'm just thinking of the jingle again, because first of all, why would you think of anything else? It's just in my head and it's just beautiful. But if you listen to that again, I'm just thinking of like the cadence, the delivery of those lyrics like i don't know that it would not andrea if everything went great for you in the musical industry you never would have been able to deliver those lyrics in the way you did it was a very subtle read and it's absolutely beautiful but uh there's just something about music especially where it just captures where you are in your life. And I don't know, maybe things needed to not work out so easily for you

because we needed to hear this next chapter of Andrew. I couldn't agree more, Jameson. What that jingle had was soul. And soul is something that comes through in everything you do if you have it. And you have it. So it's even in a jingle that you make for a giggle with us, had soul, which is why we played it out loud and why we played it the last two weeks in a row. And by the way, let's not forget the initiative you took

to make that and send it to us is the reason we're talking about you right now to an audience of millions of people. So keep injecting soul into everything you do, the soul that has come from everything you've ever been through, and keep being proactive in the way that you were, because that's what's going to make the difference.

Two things before you go, everybody. If you haven't already, go over to moveonstrong.com. If there is someone you're struggling to get over right now, either because you feel like there's still a shot at being with them or because you want to get over them for good, this free video training I've got will help you with either of those two things. Go over to moveonstrong.com for that free training now. And if you haven't already, make sure you secure your ticket to this November's virtual retreat. This is the final virtual retreat of the year. We have three days of immersive coaching. You're going to be spending with me, Steven, Jameson, and Audrey, and our entire team. People are going to be joining from all over the world for three days of transformation. This is the pinnacle of what we do, and we are inviting you to join before it's all over. This is the last chance this year. You don't even need to leave your house to get this change to your confidence, to your opportunities in life, to your mindset and your

emotions. If you are ready to take charge of your life, to make the most of every second of your life and to feel the best you've ever felt, come join us by going to mhvirtualretreat.com I'll see you there well we've been all over the world today we visited Australia where reviews have been left, and yes, maybe they've been left under duress. Maybe I forced them, but they said beautiful things nonetheless. We've been over to the Democratic Republic of Congo, where Loic Hostetter has been talking about the difficulties in a breakup. A breakup that left wounds, but also the possibility of new love, a possibility evidenced by Mary and her wonderful voice note, who took the time to tell us about a life that had not gone her way, but a life that circled back to where it started, a place of love,

a place of connection, and all because of the work that she did on herself. We have learned about Stephen's lack of interest in closure and Jameson's inability to find closure interesting at all. We've also learned that I need to dress better for Audrey anytime that we go to Vegas because last time I didn't try hard enough. We've heard from Andrea Gow as she prepares for her beautiful future, a time of creation, not a time to play defense, a time for Andrea to go out there in the same way that she did when she sent a jingle to us, a jingle that has been played for the last two weeks, that she needs to do the same thing with every part of her future

because as we have learned through this episode we can spend so much time worrying about the rejection in our lives that we miss our opportunity and our window to be chosen and it goes back to what we always say you can either wait or you can create. Rumination is waiting. Forward thinking is creating. So with that, I will take my leave a la George Costanza and leave this episode on a high. Thank you, everybody, for listening. We'll see you on the next episode of Love Life.

Remember, you can look for the love you want just don't forget to love the life you already have we'll see you next time he's done it again he's done it again that was amazing babe i hope that uh when loic is listening to this like he's on his final set at the gym when that comes on. Because that one's really gonna push him at the very end. Thank you, Jameson. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you, Audrey. Thank you for you, all of you out

there, for caring enough about what we have to say and listening every week. Us jams, we'll see you next time bye guys bye