Love Life with Matthew Hussey - 186: How To Overcome Anxiety About Your Biological Clock When Dating

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

Do you want marriage and kids? Feel like you have a sense of urgency because of your biological clock? It’s common for our desires for the future to bring up all kinds of anxieties in dating. Especially when we are torn between “playing it cool”, or being honest and up front about what we want (which could scare someone away!) In this episode, Matt, Stephen, Audrey, and Jameson dive into the thorny topic of how to handle dating and honest communication when you feel hyper aware of your biological clock and want to make plans for the future. --- Join our next Virtual Retreat (November 11th - 13th)! - Claim Your Spot Today at MHVirtualRetreat.com --- Email us! You can in touch with the show and give your feedback/thoughts at [e-mail] --- Follow Matt on Insta @thematthewhussey Follow Stephen on Insta @stephenhhussey

Or what if the next person wastes three years of your life? And what if that happens again? And what if that happens again? And this is real life that happens to people. Welcome everybody to the Love Life Podcast with me, Matthew Hussey, Jameson Jordan, Stephen Hussey, and Audrey LeStrat, also known affectionately as the Jams crew. We are excited to be here with you today. We are going to be talking about the subject of when to bring up that you want marriage and kids, especially with someone new who, well, I suppose with someone like that, it feels inappropriate to say it so quickly because we're afraid we're going to come on too strong. We're afraid we're going to send the wrong message. We're afraid we're going to scare someone off. But at the same time,

we do not want to waste our time, especially if we're starting to feel like time is running out. So how do we deal with this? There are conversations we want to have. There are things we want to say. There's an impact we want to make, all of which requires good, solid communication. We have a program called How to Talk to Men that gives you lots and lots of very specific scripts that you can read and make your own when you're in conversations in dating. And it's an extremely practical program. The good news is we're giving away a free chapter from that program today that you can go and download right now at getthefreechapter.com. You don't need to get the whole program. You can literally just go and sample this free chapter by going to getthefreechapter.com.

Now, on to the episode. All right, let's talk about it. Those early stages of dating where you know that there's something big you want to happen in your life that involves another person, how do you tell the other person that this is a big thing that I want in my life, even though we're really early in the process and I'm scared that it's going to be way too intense if I bring it up, but I'm equally scared that I'm wasting my time here. If you don't want the same things. And I know I wouldn't even be on this date with you right now.

If I knew for sure that you didn't want these things, because it would be a dead end for me, given that I want marriage or I want a family. It was my understanding that Audrey was going to bring this up to you today. And this is the moment that we're doing it. This is a, wow. First conversation I've had about it. Action. Podcast, go. Thank you, Jameson.

Well, no, this topic actually came up because we were discussing it, weren't we, the other day when we were with a friend of ours who, this is actually a very interesting subject, which I'm, I'm sure a lot of our female listeners will find interesting also. We were discussing, a friend of ours has a partner now who has a 12 year old son. And the reason he's in his early thirties, I guess. And the reason the guy who has a son. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He he's in his mid thirties and his son is about 10 or 11 years old. So the reason he has such a kind of grown up son at his age is because he accidentally got a woman pregnant when he was 18 or 19 years old. And as a result, when he was on his first date with our friend our mutual friend

they had a conversation and he asked her outright you know do you want marriage and kids and she said that she found it she was very taken aback by it because she'd never really had a guy be so forthcoming with that question and she'd found it intimidating and really refreshing in equal measures. And it sparked a conversation where you said something to me which really surprised me, which was that men, or a lot of men are afraid of ending up with a woman who traps them by getting pregnant. And we should say that that was that was why he was asking correct the question he wasn't saying do you want marriage and kids because he wanted

more kids he was saying do you want do you want kids because i absolutely am not in a place he was saying do you want to trap me well because i've been trapped before that you know he he he was traumatized by the fact that someone had who i think is probably an important detail of the story she really did want kids his ex and it look whether or not it was intentional or not on her part who knows but the the insinuation certainly from what we've heard is that it was not so much of an accident for her and he she very much wanted to be with him and stay with him and he in he essentially said to her i don't want to be with you but I will absolutely show up as a father. But I don't I don't want us to be together.

And that, I suppose, for many years had, you know, it's it's obviously been a huge part of his life to the extent that now when he met our friend, he was like, I need to know whether this is even on your mind. Because I can't do this again. Which just for me, I found it really interesting. And it sparked quite a long and deep conversation on the subject. Because I didn't really, I wasn't aware that that was a fear men had. And I don't know if that means, i don't know if that's because i've been living under a rock or were you really not aware that that was a fear that men had no because because that's mad that's crazy for the most part men are reluctant to wear protection

very careless with who they sleep with so not really no i mean i'm sure i i've thought about the idea of you know and you hear stories where women have even kind of vocally said oh well you know if you get pregnant it's not the end of the world all these sorts of things but i never really associated it with a male fear because of how cavalier majority of men are around sex so i never really thought of it like that i don't you just put that down to men being idiots i mean you have to be a real idiot to be terrified of something and then do absolutely everything well i can tell you right now against that fear you know it's a little bit like i don't relate to the men you're talking about so i i for, the idea of being careless around sex has never, that there's never been a thing

in my life because the fear was always so great. I totally agree with you, Matt. But I, I do hear, as Audrey is saying, I hear from so many women who do say that men are cavalier, they don't want to wear protection. And I'm always stunned at how many men who do say that men are cavalier they don't want to wear protection and i'm always stunned at how many men seem to adopt that approach oh well considering how many men are considering how many men are fearful of accidental pregnancy it doesn't make a lot of sense exactly it doesn't make it like i was saying it's as if i as you know i'm scared of serial killers because of the show dharma that we've been watching and it's got under my skin but it's a little bit like me being as scared as i am of us being burgled and a house being broken into and then just leaving all the doors open well i there's certainly a

i did a campaign for trojan condoms years back and part of the campaign it was a safe sex campaign and part of the campaign was exploring various demographics and cultures that were particularly bad with protection and there it tended to be heavily associated with cultures where the machismo culture was, it was a big part of it. It was obviously correlated with education or lack of education. But I think with the kinds of men that you're talking about there's often a blinded by the moment thing going on or a kind of blind drive to pleasure and oh it feels better without a condom which always seemed like a really poor excuse to me but it that isn't that is a thing that people say all the time and a kind of oh it won't happen to me or or a naivete about just how

much it's going to affect their life if it does happen i think maybe that's just an inability to forward plan and forward think how is this going to affect my life for 18 years potentially if this goes the wrong way so i think that there's a an element of that to it for a lot of people and honestly like the truth is maybe there's just also jameson i don't know what you think of this but for some guys there's just an element of i don't have as much to lose like i'm i'm not the calculation just doesn't factor in in the same way and by the way i don't think that that's true because i think if you're if you're on the poverty ladder and you get someone pregnant then it's going to be that much harder to get out of that situation it's going to be that much harder to do the things that you need to do to climb out. But maybe that plays into it as well. The kind of feeling of I just don't, you know,

the stakes don't feel high. You guys just remind me of like economists trying to figure out what's wrong with the economy or like, you know, our graphs were supposed to say that like people are supposed to take these things into account. And's just like no like it's an impulse control thing it's in the moment we're not rational it just and men if you just look at it it's like yeah they don't want to be trapped but they also have massive um lack of control over impulses compared to women and also men want to you know his biologically probably want to procreate with as many women as possible so i think there's probably like far less of a there's almost your biological instinct and then your i have to pay child support instinct which aren't necessarily always talking to each other

and at a younger age men are much more reckless yeah they're not doing the it's like younger men younger men drive more recklessly do more reckless things with money do more crazy decisions uh again not not a defense but it is I think it's maybe something you learn with age for some people you know everything becomes a kind of calculation right because you can't go for years without talking about it because the risk is too great you you could be wasting years of your life with someone who you only find out later on has completely different goals to you and isn't open to any of the same things you are so you say okay you can't be that you wait years but we also kind of know instinctively that if you try to bring this stuff up on a first date, it might sound a little aggressive.

Unless you're a man. Which apparently is fine. Why is that? Before we go any further in the episode, I wanted to make sure you knew that there is not long left now until the final virtual retreat of 2022. From November 11th to 13th, we are going to be working with an exclusive group of people for three days on every part of their life, their confidence, their emotions, their habits, their vision, their goals for their life, to design a life that makes them happier than ever before. And of course, some of that is to do with what we achieve in our lives and the life we design for ourselves. But most of all, it's to do with the inner world we create, that world in our mind. Because if we

haven't got control of our mind and our emotions, our confidence, our inner peace, then the best situations in life will lose their flavor and the worst ones will become a hell that we cannot get out of. The key to happiness is to work on our own relationship with life itself. And the virtual retreat is all about that. So if you want to come and join us for three days of immersive coaching, go to mhvirtualretreat.com and become part of the final live experience that is the virtual retreat of 2022. I'll see you over there. That link again is mhvirtualretreat.com. If you try to bring this stuff up on a first date, it might sound a little aggressive.

Unless you're a man. Why is that? Well, I'm just saying in terms of our story. No, but I think that's interesting to explore. Why is it not? Do you actually think it's not, it doesn't feel aggressive if it's a man on a first date who says, do you want marriage and kids? I think the control you have and the autonomy you have

over your body as a woman and the fact that they can make the final decision in terms of having a baby and having a child means that it doesn't feel as aggressive or as scary or sort of pressure-inducing when a man's asking. That's probably my first gut reaction. Isn't there also just an element of women expect men not to want commitment? And so when a guy asks about it, it feels attractive, whereas men expect women to want commitment.

So when a woman asks about it, it feels like pressure. Possibly. I do think a lot of men want kids quite openly though i'm not saying they don't i'm just saying if you take kind of what we've been told culturally and what we feel is true there's you don't hear men saying god there's just none of these women want to commit whereas you will routinely hear women saying that so doesn't that isn't that what kind of sort of adds to this idea that if a man says it oh he actually wants commitment if a woman says it like that seems like a lot for her to be saying that right now depends on the man some for some

men it would seem intense and needy to a woman if he said he wanted commitment too early or too easily well that's undoubtedly true that's undoubtedly true but i i just think that we i'm trying to get i suppose to to the core of this because the answer about how to present the information of what you want is, it means understanding where it's coming from in the first place. Obviously factoring into this as well is men's, the kind of stereotype of men going, oh, she's in her thirties, she's in a rush. And she's asking me about whether I want marriage and kids like that feels it's almost like whatever he's feeling about her in this moment,

if he independently is just finding her attractive and enjoying his time with her, when she says that he becomes distracted by the agenda he becomes distracted by the oh no i sense an agenda here and that kind of takes him out of it you know what i think it is as well and it always as you all know annoys me but i think men have this and to a certain extent it's true but they have this feeling of an abundance of time and so you know women do come into situations in their 30s if they are trying to have a baby with a person they're not looking to do it on their own they do come into those situations and they're you know they have a clock they have a certain amount of time that needs to happen in and so that's going to come with a certain energy even

if it's not directly communicated it might it might do you know it's possible whereas I think when men say it it's kind of like I really want kids could be next year could be in 10 years who knows and there is a sort of a relaxed nature to it which you would have if you were a 22 year old woman which is attractive because it's sort of like there is there isn't that pressure there isn't that timeline there isn't also probably for men that feeling of you know oh well she really wants this so I need to make damn sure that I'm ready to give it to her because I don't want to waste her time. If he's a decent guy, he'll also be thinking that.

Well, I think you have to think about it like a negotiating table. Like if you come to the table and you need to get the deal done today, you lose power. If you come to the table and you're like, honestly, we can make a deal today if it's the right deal, but I can wait five years so you know i can also see what else is going on out there isn't there a key there let me know what you're offering isn't there a key there of we can make the deal if you turn out to be the right person isn't that where your power comes from is saying that's where the that's

where like a woman's power can come from it's saying even if she's in a rush yeah it's saying this is something i'm i want in my life but it doesn't mean it's going to be you maybe um you know you're just like i'm i'm here looking for the right person i think that's absolutely right i think you're getting at something there, Stephen, that's really, really important, is that part of your power is still being willing to lose the wrong person instead of blind allegiance to this goal of having a child.

Absolutely. However you get it. But you have to then ask yourself, is that honestly where you're at? Because yourself is that honestly where you're at because if you're if that's not where you're at if you're like i need to get i need to do this in the next two years because that's my window i think and you trap them you've got someone right in front of you that you like are you are you actually thinking in terms of you might pretend, it's like a kind of pretend, oh yeah, I could, if it's not you, it will be someone else or whatever. But in your head,

you're going, but I have no time. There's no time. Like I don't have time to just go and keep meeting somebody else. I'm just saying the reality, articulating the reality of what a lot of people feel. They don't feel like they have time to keep swapping out over and over and over again. I just spent three months dating that, seeing this person and three months in the context of a lifetime doesn't feel like a lot, but three months in the context of two years left, when I don't want to have a baby with someone I met yesterday. So in order to have a baby with them, I want to have at least known them for a decent enough amount of time that I think that we have the same values. This person is going to be a good parent. This person is

actually going to be in my life five years from now. This is the reality of what people are faced with. And this is why people lose their negotiating power, as it were, because they're in front of someone trying to play it cool when internally they're saying, how can I possibly play it cool when this needs to have happened yesterday? Well, would there not be an argument then for being very confidently saying early on

what you want but you equally have to be strong enough to very quickly reject people if they express hesitancy or they say that isn't what they want and you you can be cool saying it but you've got to be also willing to walk away very fast i think that's you're hitting the nail on the head steven i think that's absolutely right which is why i'm playing this conversation conversation out the way i am because i think it's important for us to kind of not talk about this from some purely theoretical place but actually play out what happens for people in real time what happens in their heads while this is going on what are the internal fears even when they're trying to play it cool on the outside and and so steven what you said is okay you can have a communicate it in a cool way but

be ruthless in how you respond to the fact that they don't want what you want so the so then i go to, okay, so let's talk about what's a cool way to bring it up. Let's say I'm willing to walk away if this person doesn't want what I want, albeit with a good heart and no malice, no anger, no resentment, just, okay, cool. We're on different paths. That's i'm gonna redirect my energy but how do you bring it when is the right time to bring it up is it date one is it date three is it date five is it week five when is the right time to bring it up and how exactly do you bring that up well the thing i want to start with with this is i think it's really important to identify what your relationship to that conversation is meaning again I think

women out here out there will agree that we are constantly told that our value lies in how aloof and cool and hard to get we can be. Now, we always talk about how that's, you know, a fallacy and we shouldn't go with that. But I think owning the fact that we want to find love or owning the fact that we want to have children is something that can feel very counterintuitive because it can feel like we're directly lowering our value in front of people that whose value you know who we want to raise our value to so I think the sort of starting point before deciding when to talk about it or how to talk about it is almost deciding that the most important thing is to be able to get that information and have that communication with someone not to come across a certain way do you know what i mean by that

and that's really difficult i think i think explain that for me well i think we have to just own the fact that this is what we want. Own the fact. What does that look like? Well, I think it's going into the conversation already knowing that no matter what the outcome is, you're being true to what you want. You're being true to your needs. You're being true to the things that you really, you know that if you couldn't have would make you miserable. So your North Star is, i want to have a family and so i don't care who that scares away in the process because

me finding out whether the person in front of me is even up for that is the most important thing isn't the start of this to pay very close attention look there are indirect semi-indirect ways to talk to someone early on about some of these things right you you could ask them about whether they have a big family you could ask them about whether this they have siblings oh do you are your siblings single are they married no they're married they have kids big family, you could ask them about whether they have siblings. Oh, are your siblings single? Are they married? No, they're married. They have kids. Oh, that's so nice. Do you get on with their kids? You do. You know, my nephews. Yeah, I love my nephews, blah, blah, blah. Does it make you, you know, does it make you excited

to do that for yourself one day? Yeah, it does. Well, I don't know. I'm not sure I want that for myself. Like that's a, that's an indirect way in. And of course it's also a, when you have conversations that are indirect like that, it gives you a chance to say, wait, if he says, well, I don't know if I want that for myself, you can say, how come, you know, what, what makes you feel like you're on a different path? and then he says well i just don't know if i ever really see that for myself and you can say oh that's interesting i know for me it's that's that's so unbelievably exciting the idea of having a family you know and meeting someone to do that with of course i wouldn't want to do it with someone that i didn't feel was incredibly special to me um but to find someone that i want to do that with and do that that feels like to me

one of the most exciting things that one could do that's an indirect way in to a very bold conversation and a very bold statement about yourself and how you feel about something. Notice that you're saying, you know, it would have to be with someone that I felt was incredibly special to me. You know, you're not saying that this is something that you would just do with anybody. And so you're creating a standard there that someone would have to live up to. And you could even, by the way, position that in terms of other people. You can say, I know there are people I know in my life who have done it just because they want to do it.

And for me, I know it has to be with someone that I feel is incredibly special to me and I have an amazing bond with and I think I would be an amazing team with. I couldn't just do that with anybody. And when you say that, you're asserting a standard at the same time as expressing a desire or a need. What I think is important about connecting these two ideas that Audrey said, and Matt just gave a very practical example of is I agree with Audrey that you you should be very clear about why it is you want kids I think that's one good starting point because I think a lot of people haven't really thought about it too much they kind of just kind

of feel intuitively like yeah I do I do want kids those other people that have kids that seems sort of meaningful to me and I think just try to spend a little bit more time with that for a minute and just think about why it is you want kids because if you can really connect to that then suddenly you just kind of have that in your back pocket like you know how you said we're saying before Audrey about being um when you're told to be aloof or like to seem kind of cool I think the feeling of cool that that gives off is like, yeah, yeah, my life is great already. I don't really need whatever this is on the first date. I'm not saying that's the best way to have a first date, but when you have that kind of grounding of my life is already great. I think if you kind of have already have that grounding of

like, I'm going to create a great family. Like I really want to have that tribe. I want to have that great thing in my life in the future at some point. If you are certain about that, then you can kind of come into it without that sort of extra uncertainty of baggage of like, yeah, I do want kids. I only have a short amount of time to do it. I think so much of that waffling or that extra, there's a little top spin of extra anxiety that can come if we're not careful or if you haven't just spent a little bit of more introspection with that question of like, what is it you want? Like, why do you want kids? Do you want kids because your sister has kids

and you're a little bit jealous? Or do you want kids because you sense that there's a really deep, meaningful future there that you want to be a part of or you want to have for yourself which is which is independent of the person in front of you right so you're always just assessing whether the person in front of you is aligned with that vision for not whether they're aligned with your excitement whether their excitement about it is aligned with your excitement you know that do you feel excited about this for you in your life i have friends who two friends in particular who they've always said to me oh i know i'm gonna have kids and i know i'm gonna be a mom like a hundred percent i just know i am and i know that they've gone into relationships they're both now relationships but in the past they've

gone into relationships and they've very much just said that you know very openly absolutely I know I'm going to be a mom I'm going to have kids and they're in their early 30s so I suppose it's a different conversation to somebody who is say 40 years old but it never scared anyone away because of the conviction they had and because they were never really afraid it never scared anyone away because of the conviction they had. And because they were never really afraid of scaring anyone away with that conviction, because they knew that they would only be scaring someone away who didn't want the same things as them. So they wouldn't have seen that as a great loss.

And, you know, women, we feel so often like things are taken out of our control when it comes to dating and families and all of these different things. And, you know, we have a disadvantage when it comes to our biology. And we have a disadvantage when it comes to kind of how forward and how certain we can be about someone without it coming across as desperate. You know, we have all of these different ways that I think culturally were held back.

But it's important to remember that if you want something as meaningful as having a family, as you said, it's irrelevant whether that's with the person in front of you or by yourself or with a friend or with some other person you meet six months down the line you're doing it for you and being able to take full control of that that dream and that that is, I think, we keep saying step one, step one, but I think that's step one, because then what will happen is you will just find the path towards that dream. I could not agree more with that.

I think it's elemental to this conversation, is that idea of putting control back in your own hands. Because the truth is, those friends of yours who boldly say, I know I'm going to be a mother. Well, if they say, I know I'm going to be a mother with a man I love, maybe. Maybe. maybe maybe i mean there's plenty of people who say that very boldly at 25 and very boldly at 30 and by 35 they're a little more shaky on that and then by 40 they're not saying that so loudly anymore and they're starting to adjust their expectations of life and you know and then some people many people who once boldly said that look back and go it never happened and it's all very well saying i'll just if this person isn't right for me and they don't want it then i'll change the person well what if the next person

wastes three years of your life and what if that happens again And what if that happens again? And what if it happens again? And this is real life that happens to people. And the only true antidote to that is to not rely on another person. You have to start from a place of saying, if I want to guarantee one day that I'm going to be a mother, I'm going to, I'm going to remove the other person from the equation and say that no matter what, I'm doing this. And then build up from there. It's like, what's the plan B or C or D or E that no matter what, this is happening. Okay, I can still, that's not a defeatist point of view. That's not aist point of view. That's not a cynical

point of view. That's a, let me build up from there. Okay. Now what's plan D? Okay. Now what's plan C? What's plan B? What's plan A? Okay. I've put set in place all the other things. So now let me reach for plan A. And plan A is I meet the love of my life. We have an amazing, happy family. We stay together and raise these beautiful children as a unit. But I know that having the child in the first place is the first position of importance, the primary position of importance. So you say, okay, what has to happen for me to guarantee that and this is where you know i wish that it were cheap for everybody to freeze their eggs because i'm and i said this earlier i would be as bold as to say every single woman who has the means to freeze her eggs, should freeze her eggs. And what did Jameson say?

I said that'd be an egg-cellent idea. There were a significant number of egg puns. Of course there were. I don't even remember the first one anymore. It was bad. It was all bad. But you... I strongly believe this, and I've been saying,

anyone who knows me, Jameson knows this, Stephen knows this, this has been something I've been saying, anyone who knows me, Jameson knows this, Stephen knows this. This has been something I've been saying for years and years in one form or another that if I'd love it, if every woman got to 21 and said, let me freeze my eggs so that go freeze your eggs and then go live, then go live your life. And of course, I realize I'm saying this from, uh, without acknowledging the fact that I have acknowledged it, but I want to re-acknowledge the fact that I get it. Not everyone has the means to do that. And I wish that everyone did have the means

to do it. I wish that it, and I, my true sincere hope is that it becomes affordable for more people in the years to come and that people over time develop less and less of a stigma around doing this because I think that it's freedom. It's freedom to decide to say, you aren't treating me right, so I'm leaving. It's freedom to say to someone, you're not certain about me, so I'm not going to wait around for you. It's freedom to say to someone, you're too ambiguous on this issue and I know what I want. It's also freedom to say, I'm single and I feel relaxed because I've made peace with the fact that if I don't meet the right person in time for my biology,

I am going to take this into my own hands. And I think every woman should be saying to herself, what's my age where I say, if I don't meet someone by this age, I'm going to do this. Because this is ultimately something I really want. And what my desire to have a child actually supersedes my desire to meet a man and have a traditional family unit. Because if you can answer those difficult questions, freedom lies on the other side of that. The fear of bringing things up to someone in the first place is a fear of our own situation. And actually, I have a very good friend who, always reference my friends, but I have a very good friend who did freeze her eggs.

And she found herself in a situation where a few months in, he wanted to move in together. And she was able to say, you know, it was only a few months in, so it wasn't a year in or whatnot, but she was able to say, "'Well, I would love to take that next step with you, "'but, you know, for me, "'something that's really important is to have a family,

"'and that's why I've actually, you know, frozen my eggs. "'And I don't want to be doing that with someone unless they're on the same timeline as me because that's important to me and he said you know well what's your timeline she answered one to two years or whatever it was and um he said okay and we talk a lot about leverage don't we I think there's two different scenarios. There's a scenario where you're just trying to establish whether somebody is on the same page as you quite early on. And there's also the scenario where you can wait, you know, a few weeks or a couple of months and get to a point where somebody wants more from you. And then you say to them, well, in order for me to continue down this path,

I need to know we're on the same page, which might be a safer way to do it. Because I do think sometimes, going back to what I was saying, you know, if you, too early on, if you communicate that this is what you really want, then perhaps a decent guy who doesn't know you well enough yet to be sure might just say well i don't know right now i can't give you an answer and i don't want to waste your time so i set you free which might not be you know that could be the end of a potentially amazing relationship so there is a balance to strike there i think well but what allows you to do what your friend did and and wait until it feels like a more significant kind of moment of of graduation for the relationship is knowing you have a backup yeah when you don't have a backup when you've got no plan

then you have to you're constantly living with that hum of anxiety. Are you wasting my time? Was it a waste this week to invest in you? Was it, is it a waste next month to invest in you? You're counting every month because there is no plan. There's just, if it's not you, it's got to be somebody else. And I'm already running out of time. So if it's going to be somebody else, I need to meet that somebody else as soon as possible. And that's the energy that you're coming from. So it, to me, it's always, it's always about what's, what do I, how do I make sure that my dream comes true regardless? Matthew, I have a friend who froze her eggs at about 29, even though she got married at 28. And she just didn't want to put pressure on him to have a kid right away into their marriage.

Now, at 36, she just got divorced. They didn't have any any kids and so I asked her like well what's the what's the plan and like you were saying she's got the plan a you know when she goes back into the dating world she still wants to see if it can happen naturally you know if it's going to be organic and and um happen naturally with a guy who's interested in having a family but at that negotiating table she does have that in her back pocket too where it's like she's got the the frozen eggs so just speaks to your point back to like evening out the the playing field a little bit I love that story so much because if you take away that one component

which is that she decided to freeze her eggs at 28 or however old she was she becomes a 36 year old woman who's gotten divorced which was not in her plan who now finds herself back in the dating world and is freaked out because her plan a has not happened and there is no plan b the plan b is oh my god do all of that again now and try to get back to the same place in time before time runs out. That's, that's the reality. And instead, because she had done that thing to take it into her own hands, she can go, I'm actually going into the dating pool with personal power, not power over somebody with personal power. And my leverage is not leverage over somebody else. My leverage is over the situation. I can walk away from this and still do this myself.

And I realized there's all sorts of, anything can happen even with freezing your eggs. I get it. Nothing's a certain, everything's can be expensive and then not work out and whatever. But it's all about probabilities. It's about stacking the odds in your favor and doing everything you can to make that happen. So, Matt, if I was going to summarize practical takeaways here, you're saying, number one, have a backup plan. Yeah. Perhaps by freezing have the hard conversation number one have the hard conversation with yourself before you have a hard conversation with anyone else and the hard conversation with yourself is what am i going to do if it doesn't happen with somebody else and when am i going to do it by and what have i put in place to make sure that's possible so that's

number one and how important really is this to me? Yeah. And that question forces you to answer that because if ultimately you arrive at the conclusion, I don't want to do it unless it's with somebody else. Then it's not that important. It's not as important as doing it perfectly. Doing it in an imperfect way is not as important as doing it in a perfect way. So what's really important to you is the perfect blueprint, not simply having children. Okay. And number two, be willing to have the conversation early. Don't be afraid of that. Yes. And I think that the more you've done part one, the more you, when you do bring it up, it won't have the same intensity to it. There was a dating profile and I want you to keep going, Steve, because I like what you're doing, but there was a dating profile and I want you to keep going Steve because I like what you're doing

But there was a dating profile that Jameson and I came across that we literally put As a like we upheld as a dating profile. We thought was really good and one of the Questions one of the things that this person said in her profile Well, I think one of the prompts was what you what you most sad about with the future something like like that. And she was like, um, that my, or what makes you most stressed or something. I can't remember what the prompt was, but she said that my future children will never get to the joy of going to a blockbuster video

and renting a video in the store. and i thought that was such a clever way of saying i want kids but don't have them yeah i love that right yeah that's because it shows that you're funny it shows you have personality and it shows that you want kids it's not sort of cloak and daggers precious about it you're just like i want kids and i'm sad they're not going to get to experience which is really nice exactly you're not holding it like baggage either you know or it's just like it's so heavy it's like to be able to throw it away and so often in early dating I kind of just don't want it to get to these heavy conversations that's why I kind of like what you said earlier Matt about just like oh do you have any siblings like are you oh do you like big families are you like more of a

small intimate family just to pick their brain a little bit, like leave it, leave it to them. Do you get excited about that for yourself? Yeah, just watch them squirm or not. So number one, have hard conversations with yourself first so that you have your plan B. Number two, and number one helps with this. Don't be afraid to talk about it early on, but wear it lightly in conversation. Yeah. And I'd say number three, don't take the next steps with someone without them actually being invested on the same path you're on.

So if it's moving in, if it's we're going to get married, don't take the next steps without knowing, are you on board for the whole plan here? I think that's really great, Steve. And I think Audrey's story is a great case study for that of the friend who said i'm not moving in with you unless you're on the same path as me in terms of wanting children but um i would even extend that or bring it forward to the earliest parts

of dating not where you're talking about, but where you're literally assessing based on what someone is showing you. If this person is a serious person, you know, if I, if I was in a rush and I'm looking for serious and I'm dating with intention, whether it's to lead to a marriage or a family, I know that I'm looking for my life partner. Anyone who is fucking around would immediately, it wouldn't be someone I'm mad at. It would just be immediately someone who I'm like, well, take my energy away from this situation. Like if someone was being inconsistent in communication, if they seemed kind of all over the place, if there was no progression, if I felt like it was flat after a date, and even though I offered to give them a call this week and say hi, or I said,

do you want to do something this weekend? If I just felt like they were lackluster and dragging their heels and tough to see again, that would be me. I wouldn't be going, so what do I do to get this guy more engaged? I'd be going, this guy isn't engaged. This person's not intentional. Let me redirect my energy right now towards a better place. And a better place right now is anywhere but this guy who's occupying my attention. And not just serious about you. That's basic and true.

But also, how are they in the rest of their life? Are they serious in the rest of their life? This is where it's one of those things where, you know, is he a little bit more settled in his career? Is he spending every weekend, like, partying with his friends? Or is he skipping the partying with the friends because he's got to go to his nephew's birthday, you know? Like, is he ready? This is like if I had a sister and she's 38 and she wants to date a guy who's like 36 i just be like make sure you you need to talk to him more directly than you would to another to a 40 year old or whatever so this is where there's another asymmetry with the age thing where it's just like

it's fine to date someone who's younger than you if if you're in that spot but you have to have that conversation even more seriously or or sooner or they need to be showing you all those other signs at a bigger level. I so agree with you. You have to find someone on your wavelength. I was talking to Claudine, our old friend. And, you know, she's got two kids now. And she was saying, like, it gets to a point where you even realize you have to make your new friends you have to make. And not just other people with kids.

There are other people with kids the same age because they they become kind of the ones that get you they get where you're at they get what you're dealing with you can have similar conversations and and that's true in every part of life and you have to stop being so obsessed with attraction that you don't actually look for someone who's at the same place in life you are and on the same path that that's true of and jameson you pointed it out so it's really true that's true of a lot of age gaps in both directions you just realize someone's not on the same path as you they're not thinking the same way audrey and i went to the gym this morning at like 6 20 a.m all right he made me get up at 5 30 i would like everybody out there to understand what he puts me through he made me get up at 5 30 in the morning she loves

he was so happy she gets out of the gym and she thanks me jameson she gets out of the gym and she thanks me well obviously i'm always grateful that i went well that's all i need to know so tell us more about this abusive relationship anyway we were leaving the gym and we're driving past like our favorite juice spot and audrey's like oh is it it's open can we go there and we parked and we pulled over and we got like you know these stupid expensive elixirs of life that is that that one on beverly that i like it's a different it's on it's on uh uh las cienega this one but yes it's the same chain and uh and we pulled over and we got a couple of these little things and i just watched audrey like shoot this you know lemon and black pepper ginger turmeric spicy hot tiny drink that's supposed to

cure everything in life and she drank it and she was like oh like you know that kind of like oh that was a tough one and i just it was funny because i i looked at her and i was like because because the whole point was when we came out of the store, I was like, I can't believe how expensive those were. That was ridiculous. And I said, I said, you know, every time we come out of the gym, we should treat ourselves to this because, because it's expensive, right? These silly little tonics are expensive and it feels so indulgent, but like, this is a good reward for going to the gym at 6 20 a.m and when she made that face when she drank it i was like this is how you know you're well

into your 30s is where and you're not you're you're not babe you're you're not well into your 30s but you're you know i'm into my 30s you're into your 30s i love it okay oh she's owning it okay so yeah but you know i was like this is how you know you're well into your 30s. I love it. Oh, she's owning it. Okay. So, but you know, I was like, this is how you know you're well into your 30s when your treat for going to the gym is something that makes your face scrunch up in a ball and isn't even actually enjoyable. I thought you were just going to make like a little, uh, sort of like movie montage, like a smash cut from like a treat in your twenties. Yeah. We should do that that double shot of tequila, making that face. And then like, yeah, treat in your 30s. Double shot of a...

But that's exactly my point, Jameson. Shot of tequila at 7am. Juice and a protein ball. If you're leaving the gym and your treat is that little shot of ginger and someone else's treat is still the vodkas they did you know in the middle of the night that you're on different paths probably right now it's an overgeneralization but if you sense someone early in dating is oh you're not a serious person oh you're in a different it's not you don't have to have any judgment towards it, but you do have to have massive kind of focus on what you want and be ruthless about

that and stop saying, Oh, but we, I'm so attracted to him. And we have such great chemistry that life does not give a shit. It does not give a shit how much chemistry you have with someone. Your life plans are completely separate from that. And if the life plan is something that's on your mind every single day, then the life plan is what you need to be thinking about. Not, but there's this really cute guy and I really get on with him and he's got these great qualities and so on. It doesn't, are your paths aligned? That's not to say you shouldn't have chemistry, but are your paths aligned and get really ruthless about getting out when they're not?

Yeah. And I think no one should feel shame about prioritizing that part of their life if that's where you are it's the stage you're in feel fine like filling up your calendar with meeting new people and start discarding them quickly but don't feel shame about it and do other sources than dating apps as well there's i've heard scott galloway talking about today how dating apps have these really skewed messed up economics where like uh 80 90 percent of women are chasing 10 percent of men and there's all these men with lots of options it's it's basically i'm not against dating apps they do really well for some people i i think people should use all sources but don't use one and i think again dating apps can skew towards a certain percentage of guys who are less serious so use multiple sources but

use them all and feel free to prioritize this part of your life if that's what you care about and i also think just remember that the person who gets to have kids with you is really freaking lucky you know and the more you can communicate that and the more you can communicate that what you're offering in terms of having a family with someone, being a mother, being a partner has an enormous amount of value. The more you will attract like minded people who are also looking for families, even if maybe it's two years earlier than they wanted it to. They'll go, well, you know what? It's a bit earlier than I thought, but I can't pass up on the opportunity of doing it with you. And I think connecting to your value in the process is so important. You're not just on the back foot because you're a woman and you have a timeline.

You have just as much power and you're just as valuable as anyone else in the situation. More so because you're going to carry it have a timeline you have just as much power and you're just as valuable as anyone else in the situation more so because you're going to carry it there I said it but you know all of these things are down to communication down to the very subtle nuances of how we communicate our needs how we come across when we're trying to communicate those needs and I think there's, there's a real kind of mastery to that, isn't there? Well, great communication is about becoming competent in communication. It's about the ability to express ourselves well, and to know how to say

things in a way that makes the biggest impact. I want to just take this opportunity to remind everybody that if you haven't got it already, how to talk to men is one of our most powerful programs because it teaches you what competent communication looks like at all stages in the dating process, whether it's you just started speaking to someone from an app or it's being great on a date or whether it's having those challenging conversations about the future with somebody. And if you haven't already, we are offering right now, as I said before, a free chapter to how to talk to men over at getthefreechapter.com. So go check that out before you leave this episode. Go there now. Get the free chapter dot com to download your free chapter. You know what I like about that, Matt? I was just thinking again about my friend who is going to go into the dating world again. And she is set up nicely at that negotiating table now. Right. But it still comes down to like she still has to have the conversations.

Yeah, she doesn't get to have it badly now there's no there's no real shortcut you i mean you can set yourself up nicely but to actually have the words and know what to say in those situations and to stay in that high value position that's priceless could not agree more we also want to know your thoughts on this episode. I'd love to know what situation you're in with the content that we've talked about today. Have you taken it into your own hands? Let us know. Tell us your story. Are you thinking about doing that?

Have you been struggling to have those kinds of conversations with somebody, but this episode has really helped. Please tell us, how do you relate to the things we've said today? And please let us know if anything we've said has helped, or if you think we've missed anything. We would love to know, because I think this is one of, in some ways, I think this might be the most important conversation we can be having. And if you encourage us to keep going with this, you know, we can do more of it. But tell us how you think about it and tell us your story. Podcast at MatthewHussey.com. Lastly, I just want to say we have an email here that came into podcast at matthewhussey.com from Elise who says, Hi Jams, I wanted to write in to say thank you. I was listening last week to How to Leave a Narcissist, one of our most popular episodes recently. And it really reminded me how far I've come from leaving a marriage that your show really accurately described.

I've been listening to your show for over a year and it has really helped with the process of starting over. It was difficult at first, the thought of starting over in my late thirties and especially the thought of dating again. I really questioned whether anyone would want to date me, a single mom of three. Your podcasts helped me change my mindset, build the life that I want, and more recently, start dating. I was nervous to date again, but I have for the most part really enjoyed the process. I'm at a point where I'm happy in my life whether I have the person or not. It's been really fun going on dates on the nights I don't have my kids and meet new people. I felt in my 20s I was more

concerned with whether men liked me. I'm now spending more time thinking about if I like them. Not every date has been a match but I've enjoyed the dates and learned a lot about myself in the process. I have the same problems everyone else runs into such as men that don't really want a relationship and men that I'm not compatible with. I'm now able to move on from these people that don't meet my needs with more confidence. I recently met someone that I seem more compatible with and have so much fun with. After a couple of weeks of dating, he even asked if I would be his girlfriend. Leaving a narcissistic slash toxic relationship is so difficult but so worth it in the end. I will continue listening as I learn so much from you guys

and appreciate your perspectives and humor. Keep up the great work. One happy mum, Elise. I love that. Thank you so much, Elise. We really appreciate you writing in and we look forward to reading more emails in future episodes.

We'll see you again in the next episode of Love Life. Thank you, Jameson. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you, Audrey. Thank you, all of you. Don't Life. Thank you, Jameson. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you, Audrey. Thank you, all of you. Don't forget, while you're looking for the love you want, love the life you already have because it is beautiful.

We'll see you next time. Thank you.