Love Life with Matthew Hussey - 303: How To Know If They Have Relationship Potential In Early Dating (Feat. Dr. Morgan Cutlip)

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

In this episode, Matthew sits down with Dr. Morgan Cutlip (@drmorgancutlip) to explore the real work of modern relationships. Whether you’re dating, married, or somewhere in between, this is a must-listen for anyone who wants to learn how to communicate their needs, set boundaries, and grow closer to their partner without losing themselves in the process. Topics Covered: What actually changes when you become parents, and how to prepare for it. Why resentment builds when your needs go unspoken. Dr. Cutlip’s “Ultimate Compliment Formula” for deeper emotional connection. How to love someone in the way they need to be loved (even if it doesn’t come naturally). What the “mental load” is and why it’s a hidden relationship-killer. How to talk about imbalance in a relationship without triggering defensiveness. The difference between compromise and losing yourself in a relationship. How to bring up your needs without guilt. What makes someone “relationship ready” in dating. How individualism is quietly undermining commitment culture. Resources Mentioned: Dr. Morgan Cutlip’s book: A Better Share – Buy your copy here Join Matthew’s 30-Day Confidence Challenge – MHChallenge.com Try Matthew AI (ask any relationship question) – AskMH.com Cozy Earth bedsheets – CozyEarth.com (Use code LoveLife for 40% off)

you could take a horrible on-screen narcissist and go back. Yes. And all of a sudden you find yourself identifying with someone who's doing monstrous things in the present. You feel connected to them. Completely. Today's guest is relationship expert Dr. Morgan Cutlip, author of A Better Share.

We talk about dating with an anxious attachment style, how to deal with avoidance in relationships, what to do when your partner isn't a good communicator or when their relationship style is different from ours in painful ways, what to do when your partner accuses you of needing too much and how to distinguish trauma-based anxiety from genuine gut feelings. She gives some really practical frameworks that I found incredibly fresh and immediately useful so I think you are really going to enjoy this one.

A quick note before we start, I am bringing back a hugely popular free event I do every couple of years called the 30-day confidence challenge. It is really unique in that I give you five missions to do over 30 days and we all do them together and each one of them is specifically designed to help you access your most confident state of mind and build massive momentum in your year. I believe that confidence is a superpower in life and the 30-day that we're going to do together begs a simple question. Who are you and what are you capable of when you don't have your foot on the brakes? The challenge begins with a kickoff call on July the 15th where I will be giving you the five missions that we're going to be doing together in the 30 days that follow. You can register for free, the whole challenge is free, to join us at mhchallenge.com.

And now I give you Dr. Morgan Cutlip, hello. Hi, it's great to be here. It's lovely to be with you. I feel like this has been on the cards for a long time. Oh, I appreciate that. This is just feels like a bucket list item for me. So it's great. It's great to be here Yeah, no, I I've known of you for a long time. We had a conversation a while like years ago now that we did a live

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that was a really great live. I really enjoyed it I think to this day we still use one of the clips from that really out there It's it's really good to be with you. I'm excited to talk about your new book, A Better Share, which is off to my left there. And I guess I want to start, how long have you been married for? So this summer it will be 17 years. I am curious. I've been married two years now, somewhere around that. I'm only a month or two off.

Yes. What would be your advice to me and Audrey at our stage of marriage? As someone who has learned all of these lessons and so many of them, I'm sure you've put in the book, but what would you say to us is important to know or to learn in this stage of marriage? As you are embarking on parenthood. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah, we're like four or five months out. Yes. This one is really hard because you two, your work, your whole life is about relationships. So I'm sure you're pretty far ahead of a lot of couples. But parenthood has a way of really shaking up a relationship that is otherwise pretty good. I tell the story in my book of how it shook up our relationship. My husband and I have been married 17 years,

but we met when I was 14 and he was 16. There's a whole on and off story there, but known each other a long time, had a great relationship. And becoming a mother changed me in such a massive way that I did not see coming. And I sort of stepped in and took everything on. I took on all the care, I took on all the night stuff, I took on all the things and my husband didn't really jump in enough and I remember it was at that sort of

beginning kind of pattern we set up that I felt like we started drifting apart. I was shocked at how I could quickly resent a man that I really never felt that way about previously and so You guys are probably way ahead. You probably have a lot of big discussions around these things But I would have a plan for regularly touching base to talk about the status of how each of you are doing She's gonna go through some big changes she's gonna just experience parts of herself that she didn't even really know existed. And you're going to experience her in new ways.

And so have a plan before you get into that stage of your relationship. Or it's like, how are we going to come together? How are we going to talk about these things? How are we going to check in on each other? And how are we going to support each other in the ways that we each need. I think another thing is the ways that I needed to be loved changed after kids and so be prepared. It's so normal to need to be loved in different ways or to need more of a something you needed previously and so make sure there's discussions around those things. What changed if you don't mind sharing, what changed for you in terms of the way

that you needed to be loved? So I've always been somebody who needed words. And my husband and I, it was almost like a 10-year argument between us. Because I would say, I just need you to show me and tell me that you love me and you appreciate me. And he'd be like, yeah, words of affirmation. So he'd say something generic.

You're a good mom, you're good this. And I'd say, oh, that really isn't the thing that I'm looking for. And so then that's, I think that's how little things can become big things in relationships. What were you looking for? I was looking for something that revealed that he really knew me and appreciated me on a deep level.

I was visible and valuable to him. He saw me and appreciated who I was and how I contributed to our family. So I always needed that. When I look back at our, we dated in high school, I look back at our relationship. I have a box of cards that he made for me on his computer. They're hilarious. And I remember because I'd say I need like a card from you, but I've always needed words. So after

our daughter was born, I just needed more of that. So in his case, was it that he was kind of strong at that in the beginning and then it waned or was it that he was sort of always that way and you know because it because there's a difference right yes so there's definitely couples where people end up with someone that they go this has just always been a problem yeah for us I've always having to drag words out of them and there are other people who have a different kind of pain of I used to feel this from them

and now I don't did it fall more into the latter category? No, I think it was more in he's just not a man who has a lot of words. And that's why I needed these cards he made on his printer, you know, on his computer many, many years ago. So those were the more prompted by you. Yes. Okay. And it like, it did enough for me back then, but throughout our relationship,

I needed more of that from him and then especially after becoming a mom I really needed it because in many ways as I mentioned before we started recording he travels every week and so in many ways you know I was doing a lot of the heavy lifting with our daughter and so he couldn't necessarily jump in and physically do things to help me out. So I needed what I couldn't get in deeds, I needed in words. And I do think that, you know, not to paint with a broad brush, but there's a lot of men who are like that.

They're really good at working in the relationship and not working on the relationship. I think I probably wish Audrey was here right now. She would very firmly give an answer here. I think I probably fall in a little bit into that category. Audrey really loves words. Ooh, I have a formula. But keep going. No, no, no, I wanna hear the formula.

Cause where this is all leading for me is what, how do you work with people when they are trying to you know get someone to love in a way that's not natural for them to love without feeling like they're constantly trying to change them into someone they're not in ways that just aren't productive or don't work. I mean it part of it is a belief it's a belief that we are supposed to sort of love our partner in the way that they need to be loved. We kind of have to embody that belief in our relationships. It's not about what's most comfortable to us.

It's about how do we care for them in the ways they need to be cared for. So I know my own relationship that was an ongoing discussion. These are the things I do for you that are out of my comfort zone or that you need Imagine if those went away, what would that feel like? Not a threat but just sort of like this is we got to like get on the same page around some of these things But in my personal relationship, I I developed a formula for my husband. He's an amazing man He loves me deeply and he wants to get it right. I think there are a lot of people like that, a lot of men who are like that where it's

like, I don't know, just tell me what to do. I want to get this right. I want to care for you in the ways that you want. The formula I call the ultimate compliment formula and it's observation and it's either what you are doing so like if something they see you doing or a personal quality about you plus how it makes your life better hmm it's it's such an unnatural way of speaking to somebody but if both people in a relationship did this every day it would

change your relationship so could what would be like what could you give us an example yes I always think of examples that are around stuff with kids so but Will be something like I noticed how much planning you put into The trip that my husband planned the trip how much planning you put into the trip and I see how thoughtful you are How much you worried about our comfort and us having a good time? And I want you to know how much I appreciate that and how it was so great not to worry

about it. Really made things easy on me. Thank you. So that's and that was an example of something he did. Yeah. So that would be something I would say to him. And that's what you really love, right? Yeah. Like you love that. It's easier for me to say it. I'm just curious. Does he really love it when you do it?

Like does because I I, I, I do. Finally, funny example you just used because I am the planner for us when it comes to trips, like Audrey will plan a trip away somewhere and Audrey will be like, you know, on the day, let's eat here. I'd be like, what do you mean? Let's eat here. This is definitely. Yeah.

And this is almost certainly not the best place we could be eating. Like, let me find what's the place around here. And I've already done that like three weeks before the trip and I've figured everything out and whatever. And it's, we at one point had a little bit of friction where she was just like, let's just, you don't need to worry about, let's just do this

and whatever. And I didn't feel recognized for how much effort I actually put into planning the trip. Yes. And when I remember a distinct moment when she said to me that I see how much you've done for this trip and I see how much you've like tried to plan the best possible experience. And there's so much fun I'm having that I, you know, I'm just able to have because you've already thought of all of this and I really appreciate it.

And so and that did mean so much to me. Yeah. But I'm almost curious about the. That as an interesting example of like someone can be not great at saying those words, but they might be very connected to how good those words feel when they're given to them. So I'm wondering if your husband, if he's one of those people who doesn't necessarily do it naturally, but really feels good when you do it, or if he's someone who doesn't do it naturally,

but also doesn't really care if you do it or if he's someone who doesn't do it naturally but also doesn't really care if you do it. Well if he were sitting here he would say he doesn't need much of that. Okay. And I think you know that was a it was a that was also this whole conversation around needs was an like an ongoing one for us like I said for around ten years where he'd say I just don't need anything like I'm just I just don't need much and you need a lot you know which is always triggering for people to be told but you need anything. Like I'm just, I just don't need much and you need a lot, you know, which is always triggering for people to be told, but you need so much. And I remember one time saying, well, I already,

because I meet your needs, like I'm doing it. So you don't feel it. And I think that's the case a lot of times is that, you know, we all have needs, people have needs, you know, period. And we have, you know, needs that sort of, you know of do more for us, move the needle more for us in certain categories, in certain areas.

And so for me it's words and for him it's less words, but he still has that need. And so we just have maybe a kind of like a volume issue or a volume discrepancy. So he might need like touch a lot more than I do or something. But I always notice that when it comes up for him, you know, you won't need this thing. But then all of a sudden, when he starts to feel kind of what you described, taken for granted, unappreciated, like his efforts weren't seen, he will have a reaction and he will

really need to hear that appreciation. So it's really, it's really fascinating. I, you said something that I think is really, really important, which is you were willing to kind of almost point out how much he maybe takes for granted that you do all the time that does make his life better. And all the ways he doesn't even realize he has needs because they are being met. And if those weren't being met,

that would, he would feel the difference, which is a wonderful luxury for any partner to have. That is actually predicated on the idea that you're already providing all of this value. And it's kind of that, in a way, that's what gives you, it's a crude word for it, but that's what gives you that leverage. Is that you're already providing all of that value. Could you speak to that a little bit? Because I feel like it's, a lot of people are showing up to not having their needs met. Having also not really shown up in really valuable ways for the other person. And maybe they've got into this kind of very transactional state now.

That makes it hard for them to go and ask for something because they've also stopped giving. And now it's just point scoring. I don't wanna do this because they never do this for me, but you get trapped in that because it's hard to start giving to someone you feel isn't giving to you. So could you just speak to that? Yes, so I will just point out that in that particular moment, let's say my husband didn't start to step in my direction,

my giving would probably have shifted. I was speaking from a place of like, I've been giving and I'm kinda at my breaking point until I start to get a little bit of this in return. And so I think that's what happens to a lot of couples is that one person is doing the giving, the other person is sort of just doing the taking and then they start to dial it down

and then you get in the standoff. And it's really, unfortunately, quite natural that we don't like to give until we get. And so it goes back to this idea of our sort of belief system or our kind of like our ethos around how we approach relationships, which is that it's our job to really step in to caring for our partner, to have some sense of humility, to sort of put our ego aside and to be able to show up for them. And so, I realize that's easier said than done

when you have a partner who also will engage in the work with you. But I've said this before on interviews. I am not married to another therapist. I'm not married to this man who works in construction. I'm married to a dude. And so we have had to sort of have some tension in our relationship around some of these topics

to push through. But that's the natural sort of erosion of connection a lot of times in relationships, is one person's getting, they're not really giving back, they're not reciprocating, the other person gets frustrated and then they approach their partner and it's not met with any openness. If you get to that point of neither of you have,

you've both got into a bit of a standoff situation, what's your advice to people? Do you say, hey, there's like, start giving without ego just for now so that you can actually practice what you're preaching and model the kind of giving that you want from them and that makes it more easy for you to have that conversation from a place of saying, look, this is the way I'm showing up for you

or is there a different way of doing it? How do you, how, if you feel starved and they feel starved, who, where do you start? Right. So there are a few ways you can approach it. So one is to give without any expectation, which is really hard. So if you're going to step into giving without any expectation of getting anything in return, you have to sort of prepare yourself for doing

that type of work because a lot of people will try that and then they'll just get really resentful really fast. Yeah and then they'll just be like huffing and puffing around the house and you know really tense and so if you're gonna do that know yourself a little bit, have some insight, can I do this? And I think it's helpful to set a timeline. so okay I'm gonna give with no expectation for 30 days because then you have the sort of light at the end of the tunnel where you're like at the end of this 30 days I'm going to have some information about how my partner responds and then we can talk about this but I'm gonna put all of my own

expectations of receiving aside side for 30 days. So that is really helpful for both people, but definitely the person who's engaging in that work. The second is that you might have to just have a conversation, and you really might just need to talk to your partner about this. And this is where I think it's difficult because a lot of times defensiveness will show up in these conversations. And so you have to enter into it kind of with a plan. If defensiveness shows up, how do I

want to talk about this and how am I gonna kind of work through? A lot of my book gives strategies for how to handle these difficult conversations but you know you can start with just sort of explaining kind of like I did with my own husband, this is a need that I have. It doesn't mean that you're failing me. It doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. This is just what I need in our relationship.

And so I'm hoping that you can do a little bit more of this. Needs are usually something you want removed from the relationship, multiplied or added. And I think that framework can help because sometimes as soon as our partners approach us with a need we think we somehow have fallen short or let them down when a lot of times it's just that we need to do more of

something we're already doing for them. And if they, I really love that, if they say to you well that's just not natural to me or that's just not how I'm built how do you deal with that kind of a defense? Yeah, so I always think I kind of believe that you sort of incrementally increase confrontation sometimes the more resistance that you experience and this is really uncomfortable for a lot of people but it's important sometimes to get through that resistance to have a breakthrough in the relationship. So I would probably reply with something along the lines of, okay, that's not who you are. So how do you want our relationship to feel? What is the ideal

vision you have for our relationship? And then, you know, maybe they'll be like, oh no, you're happy all the time. Maybe it'll be really brief or maybe they'll have this long vision. And then my next response would be, what are you willing to do to get there? Because what I hear is that you're not really willing to do much of anything. I'm willing to do quite a bit to make our relationship work, but what are you willing to make changes around? And then you sort of hopefully can then have that next step into the conversation to talk about specifics. Guys as you know this podcast is not just about your love life, it's about truly loving life and one of the things that I find most important when it comes

to loving life is the things that we can do that make our lives better every single day. And we go to bed every single day. So the sleep we get, what we sleep on and how we feel in the night is one of the ways that we can increase our quality of life meaningfully on an ongoing basis every single day. One of the ways that Audrey and I do that is through the bed sheets we have. and we have found no greater bed sheets than the bed sheets that Cozy Earth have. They are bamboo, they are soft, they are so cool. I'm someone who gets hot

throughout the night. I sleep better than I've ever slept in these bed sheets and Audrey loves them too so much so that when we travel she complains that we don't have them. The hotel bed sheets just And Audrey loves them too, so much so that when we travel, she complains that we don't have them. The hotel bed sheets just don't cut it for me anymore. But seriously, you guys, these bed sheets are next level. We have been using them for years, actually far longer than we've been talking about them on the podcast.

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enjoy your bed sheets and stay cosy. Enjoy your bed sheets and stay cozy. When you get into a relationship with someone, let's take a very classic example, they're very messy and you're not. And it may be the conversations we're talking about now are the same conversations as the one that I'm about to explore, but to what extent do you accept that they're messy? And to what extent do you say, but that's really not like the house I want to live in. I'm a tidy person. My mind works with order. I just need, I need this. Like to where is there a middle ground or, And I think a lot of people

confuse these things, right? Because they go, what is fair compromise? And what is me just having no standards? Could you speak to that? That one is so tricky. Relationships are a constant negotiation, really have two people's expectations and standards You know in that specific example, you know one person could argue that they're sort of being harmed Messiness rights, you know, there's this new research coming out about how Women actually are kind of affected in a pretty big way by messes And their overall mental health so You could make the argument, you know,

your need to be messy may not be as important or impactful as my need to have some tidiness around here. So in that specific example, I'd probably lean in towards that a little bit. But I think, you know, in relationships in general, there's constant negotiation around expectations. And I think these are things that you talk about before you get in a committed relationship. So you're entering into it, having kind of like, you've seen what you're getting into. And then you revisit it for what works for your life, what feels good to both people to a relative degree.

Sometimes one person's gonna step toward the other a little bit more and you know that really fits the goals for a family which are constantly constantly shifting. Something that often goes overlooked with expectations is a lot of times there's pretty deep history where they come from and so we think oh you just have this issue with cleanliness. Like you're a little uptight. Can you relax? Just enjoy our space. I want to feel comfortable in my home. When maybe there is some past experiences or background growing up where the home was never tidy and it felt like chaos. And so when things are in order, it feels a little bit more calming to the nervous system.

So I think, you know, we have to I talk there's a whole chapter a whole Section actually on expectations, but I think we have to be willing to really unpack like where did these come from for you? What does tidiness mean to you? And here's what you know relaxing and being comfortable in my home means to me How can we come together and come up with a solution that works for the both of us? I don't know why my brain goes here, but I think about it in terms of boxing. Like, you're not just facing someone head on and trying to land punches. You're like stepping laterally.

Yes. And I think there's something really interesting about that kind of lateral move of getting out of the present moment, which is very limited and very narrow and going, what is this to you? Where does it come from? I think that's a very, very powerful thing. And actually most people don't do it. And it's a route to empathy.

It's a route to real connection and being closer. It's like watching a movie. There's one of the key devices in movies that makes us empathize with a character who in the beginning of the movie, we think is a curmudgeon, or we think is just an asshole, or we think is we learn their backstory.

Yes. In the moment we learn their backstory, all of a sudden it's like, oh, they've, they can even do it with the worst people. Yes. You know, you can go back and you can take a horrible onscreen narcissist and go back.

Yes. And all of a sudden you find yourself identifying with someone who's doing monstrous things in the present. You feel connected to them. Completely, completely. Yes. So that if that can happen in the most extreme cases, it can also happen in the much less insidious cases in our relationships

by going back further. Yes. And I find that when we don't learn the backstory of things, we tend to take some of their behaviors or actions personally. So a big thing for my husband and I early on in our relationship was around celebrations. So I had a family who celebrated everything. Like just the smallest thing. This is a bit much honestly. It's like oh you got an A on your test. Let's have a party. Like everything was celebrated. My husband? Almost none. So this isn't something and I've known him forever. This is not something we talked about before we got married. You know, how do you like to be celebrated?

But then we get married and I'm like pregnant and I'm thinking it's going to be, you know, a certain experience or he's going to be, I don't know. Do you get a push present? Like, I don't know. It just seems like everything should be celebrated. This is a big deal. We're making a life here and feeling regularly disappointed. And it quickly becomes well, he must just not care, he must not love me, he must, you know, we can very quickly

start to create these storylines. But when I went back and we had this conversation around growing up experiences and he's like, we don't celebrate much of anything. All of that sort of feeling of it being personal, being about how he felt about me went away and we could have a productive conversation. How like where did that end up? I'm just so curious. He moved more toward me and I think this is um in this one I've also like he had some requests

from me where he would say things like can you not check up on how you're gonna get celebrated? Because I would have this anxiety that he wouldn't remember, he wouldn't do something. And so I'd be like, well, do you remember that this week or this or that? And he would be offended. You don't think I'm gonna take care of you. So that was my compromise for him.

And then his was he upped the celebration sort of level. It's not to my parents level, but it's much higher than what he grew up with. And part of it, and this is something you and Audrey could talk about, but one of the most amazing things about having your own family is you get to decide what that looks like.

You know, like what traditions do you wanna carry forward? What do you wanna do differently? What do you wanna repeat? And so it was just part of that conversation for us. We have kids. How do we want them to feel celebrated? What do we want to do in our family? What's really beautiful about that is when you realize, oh, he didn't grow up this way. It actually gives you the ability to step into a leadership role and model what that looks like for someone who's never had it modeled for them

and create culture. Like I think that's a really key, key phrase in relationships. In general in life, you know, too often I think we're just reacting to a situation instead of going, I actually am, I'm a presence in the room. My energy has the ability to change things, to shift things, to, to create culture and I, someone might not have this culture, but by the way I show up or by the way I educate them or I might be part like Audrey has absolutely changed my culture on slowing down in certain ways, appreciating in certain ways. I have absolutely changed

her culture in going after it in certain ways. And you know, like it's we we've both impacted each other's culture there. And I think that's a really, that is one of the most beautiful things about relationships is that you get to do that. How do you see those kinds of disagreements in dating as opposed to in a marriage? When you're dating someone and you see someone who's not communicative in the way that you would like, you know, not great with their words, not expressive,

doesn't call as much as you'd like, doesn't text back as often as you'd like. I'm curious how you see the difference in how you have those conversations at that stage versus with someone you feel much safer with because you've got this long history together. So I think of dating as almost a time of using like the utmost discernment. So dating is like an evaluative experience and not like you're constantly judging the other

person but you're kind of gathering information and data about them. Do I like how much they call? Do I like how much they text? Do they call and they say they're gonna call? Like that's a big one right following through with what you say you're gonna do where I see marriage as you're gonna do everything you gotta do to keep things close and connected. You want to turn down the judgment, turn down sort of the evaluation and kind of be as easy on each other as possible. But in dating how I'd want to approach that conversation is almost like a test case. If you aren't happy with how things are going, bring it up and how do they respond? That is such an important thing to sort of check out before you deepen your commitment.

I think one of the most important things about a partner in a dating relationship is that they're willing to grow and to change. And I don't mean change into another type of person, but they're willing to have their culture impacted. They're willing to expand and to learn new things and they're open to growth. So if you bring up, hey I wish you kind of called me a little bit more and you're immediately met with defensiveness and pushback and what you just are so needy, What's your problem? Get off my back You know, that's information worth considering and if you are not enjoying that experience in your dating life I would be

It would be a red flag to me around what that looks like as you deepen your commitment to what extent do you think? We should give people the benefit of the doubt? If, for example, if you had brought something like that up with your husband in dating, I have no idea how that would have gone. But if he didn't have those tools, he may have gotten defensive, he may have... How do you differentiate between what is

How do you differentiate between what is a reflex response that shouldn't be taken too seriously versus a genuine red flag? I mean that's a kind of a complex question because it's like in dating you're kind of doing a character analysis. Like what is going on with this person? Because back when I had that conversation with my husband when we were dating, he would have, I mean we've probably had that conversation with my husband when we were dating he would have I mean We've probably had that conversation. He would have been defensive. We were really young So it's it's getting to know all these different aspects of a person. So overall

Was he a conscientious guy? Did he do what he said he was gonna do? Did he apologize when he did things that hurt me or show that he cared? Yeah, for the most part, yes. What did I see in terms of how his parents interacted or his family growing up experiences? Where is he coming from? What's the culture he's going to bring in

into our relationship? So I feel like part of it is kind of like this in-depth character analysis that you're sort of trying to parse out. What is a knee-jerk normal defense? Defensiveness is normal. That's a common thing. We all do it. And what is actually a bigger issue that's going to be really difficult to live with

in a relationship? And I think one of the big things is what I said before, which is changeability and openness, openness to change. It might come delayed. It might come a little bit after that conversation. But I think also we have to sort of zoom out and gather information along the way in the relationship and look at what is the pattern or what is the picture it's painting of this person.

Is there more good than bad? Are some of these things just skills? Communication skills, conflict management skills, that can be taught, that can be learned. Or is this more of a, they just don't ever see my perspective, they just don't ever get in my shoes. That is something that is less changeable. And I'd have more red flags around that. How do you help people distinguish a gut feeling that should be listened to from anxiety that comes from past experience, having a nervous system that is flaring up. There are so many people who find themselves in a situation where they maybe are getting a strange feeling. Maybe someone's not texted them back. Maybe someone did something that their brain is

telling them could be interpreted as danger, but they just don't know. And I think we've all had that situation before where we kind of, what we thought was our gut telling us something. It's very common to hear people go, oh, I should have listened to my gut. My gut was telling me something. But it's also true that sometimes we get this feeling deep down like, oh, this is, my gut's telling me something about this person. And we learn we were completely wrong or over reacted or were too harsh in judging that person. How do you help people distinguish between their anxiety and their gut? Yes, in dating, you're saying. In dating.

I mean, in life too, but yeah. It does seem like it's becoming even more of a thing in dating where there's a ton of anxiety, especially around like the texting back and things like that. So. And I think even for people who maybe have been betrayed before who are like, I, you

know, past reality, there's a past reality there. And now they're, they're kind of, they don't trust themselves anymore. This person in front of me is doing something that, you know, is triggering me, but I don't know if that's me or if it's that they genuinely did something wrong. Yes. Yeah. That is very tricky. And I think we're seeing more and more of that. There's a few things.

I think one, you sort of have to have a bit of like, I don't know, there's just vulnerability and dating. It's just kind of scary putting yourself out there, especially if you've had a betrayal or some serious hurt So you want to do it almost with a strategy or a plan? I think and so you I believe it's helpful to give people the benefit of the doubt So let's put all conclusion drawing aside. They didn't text me back. I'm gonna assume the best I'm gonna assume something happened, that something came up, their phone died, they dropped it in the toilet. I don't know.

There's a million reasons why that could have happened. I'm gonna assume the best, but I'm gonna remember. I'm just gonna mark this down. Maybe write it down if you need to. If you're really unsure of how to like trust yourself. I'm gonna remember it, but I'm going to assume the best and I'm gonna wait and see what happens. And I think that you know in dating it's almost like this, I don't know if it's like cheap in it, it's not a scientific approach but in some ways you're constantly kind of testing, seeing how this goes, gathering information and making adjustments. I think part of the way that you guard your heart is that you have to pace your attachment to that person. You want to keep that sort of in check. You

don't want to you know really move quickly in your relationship really fast to the point where then you can't even discern like what is what. So if you guard your heart, you pace your attachment, then you can be a bit more observational. You can kind of pay attention to some of these things and start to look for patterns. I think over time you'll figure out, you know, okay, my gut was right. Like, there's something weird going on here.

Or I kind of tend to like see the worst in people and go to the worst case scenarios when really I need to keep myself in check. What if someone has, they're telling themselves in the moment, okay, assume the best. They haven't texted me back, don't go there. But then like nervous systems just gone. They're now, they're like, no matter how many times

I logically tell myself that I have gone into this fearful place, how do you get your body to catch up to, or even just calm down to to be able to be in that logical place of well I'm gonna assume the best which is kind of a we would which in some ways we're trying to rationalize ourselves into something but our body is not listening. Yes I think it's a lot of the things that we can sort of see on social media That is like how do you regulate your nervous system? Some of that stuff is

Kind of starts to become cliche when we see it a lot, but it just really helps So get outside go for a walk call a friend go get like you have to get out of that moment and disrupt What's going on with you? What is your number one way of disrupting? Like for you personally? For me, usually it's exercise. Like lifting something heavy helps me discharge. A lot of that just like, yeah, built up. So that would be it. If I had to do it instantly, I would probably just step outside. There's something about, it's funny with babies even, Outside and water are like two things

that seem to always calm a baby down. Outside. Like getting outside in the sun and being in the water. Yeah they almost always calm a baby down. So it's almost the same. Maybe we're just wired this way but yeah getting outside tends to really help if you have to do it in the moment. But call a friend like just sort of distract yourself, move through the moment. For me, another one is I like comedians a lot. So I will put on Spotify and I'll pull up a comedian I like and I'll laugh.

And it's almost impossible to feel anxious while you're laughing. So figure out what works for you and have a strategy that you go to in those moments. The hard thing is that a lot of those things that we need to do to feel better are the complete opposite of the things that we actually feel drawn to do. Yeah. You know, we feel drawn to scrolling and we feel drawn to checking their social media

or to looking at our phone again to see if a text has come through. The number of times in my life I have like put myself into a gym class or some session that I'm literally there and I'm like a zombie because my brain is just racing with whatever is making me anxious, whatever text I'm waiting for, whatever decision I'm waiting on, whatever. It's the last place in the world I wanna be.

Doing it may not shift me by 80%, but it might give me 10 or 20%. It takes the edge off. Yeah, yeah. I think in many areas of our life, we have to do things sometimes before we feel ready to do them. So it's like a classic example of that.

Of like, I don't feel ready to go to work out, but I'm so anxious, well, I need to really lead with my behavior in moments like that. Yeah, it's always such a very vivid one for me when I'm stressing or anxious about something in my day. And then I come and do something like this, have a conversation on camera, shoot a video. Usually like one of the best ones

is like actually deliver a webinar. And it's crazy that by the end of it, my brain has lost track. I've had to be so in the moment with whatever I'm doing that my brain has lost track of that thing that felt really stressful or that really made me worry. Yeah and we live so much of our life outside the moment now because of our devices. So it becomes that much more important that we learn ways of kind of tapping into that just complete,

fully present and you're not being pulled out of that present moment. It becomes so hard these days. that present moment becomes so hard these days. Hey everyone, before you go any further with this interview, have you tried Matthew AI yet? This is my digital mind where you can either text or call me to ask me any question you would love to get my advice on. You can try it for free at askmh.com. It blows people's minds every time if

you have not tried it yet please think of a question you'd love to ask me right now and go to askmh.com to ask my digital mind your biggest question I will see you there now Now back to the interview. When you take a bird's eye view of everything you've seen over the last few years, has your view of marriage changed at all? Have you looked at it and are you seeing patterns in, like have you come to the conclusion that more people should get married, that less people should get married? I'm just curious how you think of marriage in general at this point. Because I was not someone who was like for sure sold on the idea of marriage. And then I met Audrey and I had conversations with people I really trust and I got to the point

where it really felt like it made a lot of sense for me and that I felt really connected to the idea of it but I'm just curious what you're seeing. Well I mean I'm a fan of marriage. I think the reality is though that marriage can be really hard and I think that we don't do anyone any favors by suggesting that it isn't sometimes. And part of the reason it's hard is because we are combining two different experiences, backgrounds, family growing up experiences

and conditioning and programming, and we're putting two people together and being like, okay, figure this out. And it's tricky. I think something that I, but it's worth it. And it's worth it because when you come together with somebody who is in it with you, who's safe, who is relatively healthy,

you don't have to be perfectly healthy, relatively healthy, you both will have a light shined on areas that you need to grow and to develop. And that's part of why it's hard. And for people who are skeptical of that, why can't they do that outside of a marriage? Or is this something you feel about marriage that makes that much more likely to happen? And also I'm curious as to whether you think that marriage makes sense to the same extent outside of the context of kids if two people are

not ever gonna have kids. Yeah I think can you grow in the same ways outside of marriage? Sure I think yes. I think it's probably not going to be it's not gonna hit you as hard maybe it's gonna take a lot of effort and a lot of work and I think you know for the most part, not for the most part, completely we're wired to be in relationships. You know we're relation, humans are relational and so we really thrive in the context of healthy, safe, committed relationship and so I do think that you might get there a little bit quicker, you might get to a deeper level of that personal growth and that personal change. And it's been really cool.

You know, 17 years of marriage is not like a little bit of marriage, but it's also not like 40, 50 years. We're kind of in a, we're like, ah, we're sort of veterans. But it's been this really cool experience to look back on how much we have both changed for the better as people, how we love each other, and I think it's a beautiful thing. In terms of your question around the larger landscape of marriage, something that I feel like I'm seeing, societally, we politically even, we like to sort of say you know it's better to be this kind of collectivistic kind of culture you know we want to love everybody take care of

everybody all these things but then I see at least what I see is that we're becoming more individualistic in our relationships you know if you don't serve me if you don't make me happy I'm gonna put a boundary up I'm gonna cut you off I'm gonna leave my relationship and I think that we really need to if we're gonna be married gonna be in a committed relationship, we have to both have this openness to really show up for each other, to grow, to expand, to change,

to become better than we would be on our own. But the individualistic perspective in our relationships makes it really hard to do that. Cause the moment it's not serving you, the moment you're not happy, people are gonna check out. Do you think people are too judgmental in dating today? Do you feel like people are going in with their expectations too high?

I don't actually know. I think there's probably a subset of people who are very judgmental, very like kind of me-focused, sort of like my life's good on its own so what are you gonna bring to improve my life then i also think there are those people that should be more judgmental who almost need to use more discernment so i don't know i do just see though in the committed relationships even in family relationships we're seeing this whole movement around completely disconnecting from your family um that we are becoming quite individualistic. Could you delve into that more, people disconnecting from their family?

Yeah, almost like- In what sense, like just from a point of view of caring less about maintaining the relationships or cutting them off because they don't like something they did? Cutting them off, I'm seeing more and more of that, where it's like, oh, you know, my family doesn't understand

this about me. We just don't see them anymore. We don't, I won't talk to my mom or I won't talk to my dad anymore. And I know that there's legitimate trauma, you know, and there's situations where that is necessary, but it's almost like there's a movement around this sort of complete disconnection. It's really interesting. Yeah. There I've heard I've seen both sides of this argument and there's a I've seen there's a guy who wrote a book really recently I think it's called The Power of Parting okay which was very much about you know it talks about his mother's highly abusive relationship with him and how he had to cut her out completely and the the book is about how much liberation and freedom and emotional well-being can come from cutting someone out completely and

parents and people like that are the hardest people in many ways to cut out completely. I've also seen the other movement online that talks about where we've become far too sensitive. We now feel like someone doesn't like the way we live and all of a sudden they're dead to us and we cut them off. And so I've seen that side of it too. I'm curious as to whether you fall more on one side or the other or you know, you may just say, no, I think it's just it is the way it is there are situations where it's appropriate there are situations where it's not but what's your bird's-eye view of that I tend to fall somewhere in the middle because I do think you know this the story that

you mentioned I mean it's probably a really appropriate situation in which to cut your family off you know I haven't gone too deep into we're kind of wandering down this path I haven't gone too deep into it. We're kind of wandering down this path. I haven't gone too deep into this. But I do think there's also this other side where it is almost like, there are buzzwords that sort of show up on social media and then kind of in just the zeitgeist. And I think for a while buzzword was boundaries. So it's boundaries and a lot of people misunderstand

what they are and how they're meant to be used. And so it's almost like, well, if you don't do what I think you should do, I'm putting up a boundary, we're cutting you off. And it is a little bit too much of a misinterpretation of that and a sensitivity thing. But I think where I see it playing out on this whole idea of people kind of being quick to disconnect is in how people can approach their marriages and their committed relationships, which is that if we are all about what is

best for me, are you making me happy? We're sort of missing the point of what a really committed healthy relationship is about. And we're going to miss out on some of the benefits of really being in a good relationship. Are there any ways that you see people kind of misusing or misunderstanding the word boundaries in dating specifically? Hmm Because I sometimes have a fear Even as people are watching my work that there is a misinterpretation of things that People misinterpretation of things that people, they like learning about boundaries.

They like learning about standards. There's something incredibly empowering about it, especially for someone who has gone too far the other way in their past and has, you know, felt walked all over. And it's caused a lot of pain in their life for them to let people get away with so much. So now the pendulum swings in the other direction and I see people who are constantly talking about how great they are at recognizing the wrong behaviors, but they're still single after a very long time. And I see particular cases where that's not just bad luck.

It's that they really have gotten good at keeping people out. They really have gotten good at finding issue with things people are doing or labeling them something. And it's now become what initially was something that really saved them has kind of potentially gone too far the other way. I think that happens a lot where it's something good too much of something good becomes bad and I think you know boundaries are meant to be safeguards that we put up to protect the relationship, to help preserve the relationship.

Really, if you put up a boundary with your family, it's like, I'm gonna put this up so I can handle being around you in a way that feels kind of safe and secure. And so I do, you're more in the dating world than I am, but I absolutely have seen time and time again where somebody learns a new skill, they sort of apply it to everything, and they have now used boundaries so much to the point where they've just built walls

All around themselves. I really like that idea of boundaries being something that can preserve a relationship with someone I don't know if I've heard it said in that way before but that's a I think that's a really astute way of putting it Yeah I mean, I think that's the misinterpretation out there, is that we think a boundary is something that we put down to cut someone off when it's like, no, we're putting that in there so that we can continue to have a relationship in a way that we're protected,

we're feeling pretty safe. I think the other misinterpretation around boundaries is that we think that it means that that other person has to do what we want them to do. When really it's just kind of like this is how we're going to react if this particular boundary is crossed. This is how we're going to handle because you cannot control how other people show up. Yeah, no and they become a way of preserving your own energy. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious David having your own energy. Yes.

Yeah. I'm curious, David, over there, if there was anything, David's in a long-term relationship as well, and I was wondering if, as you're listening to all of this from your own point of view, there was anything that came to mind that you wanted to ask.

Yeah, definitely. So it kind of goes back a little bit, but when you look at a relationship where there's, you know, history and history in just a good way, like you've learned things, you've seen their patterns. I was asking Matt about this, like how you deal with the history on both sides of like, okay, at this moment in time, you're not doing something that I would love to see as a behavior. But I also know what is my platform to criticize you

or to say that when I know that in the past I haven't always been 100% stellar. So is there a way that you can recognize the fact that you still wanna come to a situation where you see something that you need with confidence and you want to communicate it confidently and Not feel like that you're downplaying that because you know that you're not perfect. Mm-hmm So almost like how do you get comfortable expressing what you need knowing that maybe you're not like getting a hundred percent in that category.

I think of expressing your needs as a courtesy that we give to our partners because if we do not express a need and we're like, ah this is kind of a small one I can kind of handle this for a while it's not that big of a deal maybe I'll get over it and it keeps showing up Eventually might be a while but eventually that turns into resentment That turns into frustration and all of a sudden one little thing might happen And it's like all of this frustration over not getting this need met is gonna rush to the surface and I can have a big issue So I believe it's a courtesy to our partners to tell them when we need something. We could definitely do it in

ways that are softer or generous, right? We can express them in certain ways because ultimately it's helping to set our partners up for success. And what about from the other end where maybe you have expressed that and then there is maybe some defensiveness yeah still feeling like then you have to push all right you just expressed your need then you get defensiveness and then you have to keep pushing when still you know you're not perfect is there any advice on like how to keep that resolve without coming across as bullish or being too aggressive with your with your need? I mean part of it is so I think in every relationship there's like a self part there's like this within sort of work that we have to do

and then there's that between work with the dynamic so part of that's the self work which is like I'm allowed to have needs you must kind of like have this like mantra like I'm allowed to have needs I don't need to be perfect you I'm allowed to have needs. I don't need to be perfect. You don't need to achieve perfection before you're allowed to ask for what you need. So I'm allowed to be imperfect and still have needs. And so you kinda need to rest on that, make it your mantra, repeat it, and help yourself.

But then the other piece is how do you push through that defensiveness? And there's lots of things that you can do. The other piece is how do you push through that defensiveness? There's lots of things that you can do. You express a need, they push back with defensiveness. One is that strategy I talked about earlier, what do you want our relationship to be like? What are you willing to do? Another is, okay, first of all, a common response, you need too much, or I already do this,

or I just don't understand this need. So they have these kind of common responses. So what you would say back would be something along the lines of, when is it okay for me to express a need to you and you will receive it? it. You sort of want your partner, if they get defensive, to own their reaction and explain what sort of like the right way looks like to you. Because the reality is they just really don't want to hear it. There's never a good time. Another reason they just, you know, it's uncomfortable. It doesn't feel good to feel like we're letting somebody we love down. So it's pretty normal to get defensive. but that's one, you know, when am I allowed to have a need and

They're like well you can have needs. Okay, so how can I express it in a way that you'll receive it? I'm happy to make adjustments. What can I do? And I'm not being condescending being genuine. Like how do you how do I make this shift? You know, oh you just never pick the right time. I'm happy to change my time. When is a good time for me to bring up? So that was my husband's role. You never pick the right time. Which is right, I do before bed, it's a terrible time.

But, you know, I'm happy to change the timing. What can I do so you can receive it? If there's still pushback, another common go-to that I think can be really helpful is, you know, how do you want me to feel in our relationship? I want you to feel loved, I want you to feel safe, I want you to feel like what you need is important to me. How do you want me to feel? I feel when this need isn't being met, X, Y, and Z. It does not feel good. So I want to talk about how we can make some adjustments. I didn't say this at all during the interview,

but one of my big beliefs, a big part of my book, it's around a topic called the mental load. I don't need to explain it unless we get into that, but. Could you, what does it relate to? So the mental load is the regular and ongoing sort of mental to-do list we carry around in our heads that takes up a lot of cognitive real estate, so a lot of space in our brains,

and also usually is made up of invisible things. And everybody has one. I'm sure you kind of were talking about even being, like your exercise class, your mind's going, it's like that's your mental load. In home and family life, the majority of the mental load is almost always carried by women.

That's what research says, I'm not just saying that. And it causes a lot of resentment, disconnection, and frustration in relationships. And if you're not in this space, but if you ever go down the rabbit hole of looking at mental load content, it is a very hot topic. It's a hostile topic.

And it's a lot of, frankly, it's a lot of male bashing type of content. And so in my book, what I wanted to do was to write a book that invited men to the conversation, because if we ultimately want to see it shift, they got to feel safe there to talk about this. And where does this come from? Does it come from men unconsciously seeing it as just a given that the woman in the relationship is going to take care of those things? Or she's going to be thinking about the kids got a test today? Or you

know, they have to be picked up at this time. And they also have a social club afterwards. And like, is it just this kind of inbuilt, like traditional mindset? Like how do we get there? Yeah, like is that, is that where that comes from, from guys is just like even they may not even know they're doing it consciously, but they're just unconsciously offloading all of that onto women to take care of and think about. I think it's like the collision of a few things. My big picture of you is like the game is rigged.

It's just kind of rigged against us. Like let's depersonalize this. I know there are jerks out there who really are resistant to participating, but let's just kind of depersonalize it. I think it's a couple things. The way that men and women are socialized differently. Women are socialized to self-sacrifice for the preservation of our relationships. And so We then prioritize certain things differently You know if we have kids and our kids are really poorly behaved and they're dressed like slobs and our home is a mess Who's being judged for that? You know, we are so we're gonna enter into that time of life with higher expectations naturally men It sounds archaic, but it still exists are socialized to provide and protect financial and physical security. So you prioritize things differently.

So I think, you know, research shows that after kids enter the picture, we're going on a big tangent. Is this okay? Yeah. Okay. I find all this fascinating. Okay, I'm like, we are way far

from your question at this point, but. We can circle back. We'll do a giant circle back. We'll do a giant circle. Research shows that how men and women are impacted differently after kids enter the picture. And so women feel this sort of like drop in their overall kind of satisfaction, relationship satisfaction around loss of freedom and also the increase in responsibilities. So the mental load stuff exists before kids,

but it really clicks in after that, whereas men are impacted by the decrease in usually their sex life and the increase in the pressure to provide. So we kind of see these things kind of playing out. So that's one. The second, I think, and this can relate to dating actually, is something I call piling on of precedence,

which is that I believe women especially early on in relationships all the way back in dating we just do stuff for our partners out of love it's like yeah I remember early on being like oh hey like I noticed you're out of deodorant like I got you you know or hey Mother's Day is coming up I sent something to your mom like don't even worry about it like I did it because it just felt good to give and I how I would care for my husband and I enjoyed doing that And it's a beautiful thing. It's not a bad thing But the first time he'd be like, hi, you're the best the second time. Thanks the third time He's not even aware of it

because these things start to become owned by me and completely out of his awareness off of his checklist and We do this way back in dating All the way if we end up getting married All the way through marriage to the point where we end up actually having quite a lot on our plates. That is completely invisible No, he's not even aware that it's happening anymore. And so by the time kids enter the picture responsibilities sort of explode and you're sort of set up to be at a massive imbalance pretty quickly. If you're trying to either reset that or bring it back into someone's

awareness so that there's a new found appreciation for those things. I'm wondering, do you lean one way or the other in terms of either resetting how much you're giving or having a technique, a way of reestablishing these things as appreciated rather than just assumed or even unconscious as you said? Yeah, the work is really both things. And so part of the work and it differs.

I have a lot to say on this topic, so you can just cut me off. But part of the work is maybe renegotiating how things are done. This isn't working for us. We got to look at who does what and we got to find a new balance. It's kind of the logistical side of it. Sometimes that's what you got to do. I think kind of I guess where I tend to lean a little bit more is that I think couples just need to be able to talk about it without it spiraling into an argument because a lot of people

can't get to the logistical side of things because they can't have this conversation. You know I need you to do more around the house. Oh my gosh, I've been working all day. I'm exhausted. Like, what do you want from me? Don't I do enough? You know, it very quickly spirals into these really defensive conversations where one partner ends up feeling attacked.

The other feels really alone. And so I think one strategy is sort of what I culminate in my book is that you have to have a regular time where you come together and you talk about, how are we doing? Do things feel relatively fair? Unfairness is where resentment will grow. Do things feel relatively fair? Where do we need to make adjustments?

What's coming up this week? Where do you need extra support? How can I jump in and have a plan to kind of move through it together? So it's not an attack. And this is where I'm coming full circle Okay, we're coming full circle My big overarching philosophy that I talk about in the book

Is that couples have to approach the mental load and many other things in their relationship that come up that cause disagreements as the shared enemy They are on the same team That is the shared enemy and when you you can align, listen, modern family life, modern life is relentlessly busy. We have way too much on our plates. We have way too many things pulling at us, distracting us, the pressure to be productive and successful, and all of this stuff is pulling us apart in our relationships. That's the enemy. So how are we gonna come together and how are we gonna find our way through in a way that we still say connected? Yeah that's the way. It's really beautiful and and it is true that I think so much of this is all of the invisible things we end up doing for our partners and for the relationship and for our lives that just aren't really even seen. Yes, so I'm a very practical sort of

deliverer of relationship education normally. So I talk about there's the big picture strategy which is like you have your meetings and you actually just treat it treat it like a meeting. Who cares if it's awkward? Who cares if it's weird? It's for the sake of your relationship. But I have little tools too. So one in particular is narration. So I still to this day, don't think my husband's listened to my podcasts because he doesn't know I do this,

but I do experiments on my husband in our relationship to see if I can shift our dynamic without him knowing. So if I change, can we change? And it works beautifully, and it's been kind of fun. So one that I started doing was narration. And so I would take one little thing that unpacked. So if I define the mental load in detail in the book, but usually one thing will unpack

to contain a lot of things. I will narrate it out loud to him. And not in a irritated, like, look what I did today type of tone but I might say something like our son plays baseball so I might say oh hey babe by the way I want you to know I signed Roy up for baseball and I filled out the forms and I uploaded the birth certificate and it's like you got to send in like a DNA sample these days it's absolutely wild I to send in like a DNA sample these days. It's absolutely wild. I paid the fees. I downloaded the app. You need to get the app too, but I wanted you to know I handled it.

And what this does is actually really powerful. Number one, I took something that he would never even know existed. He did not, he does not know all the steps that are involved. Takes me two hours to sign our daughter up for swim. Like he doesn't know. Now he knows. So the invisible is now visible. The other thing is that now he has the opportunity to thank me. Because it might not bother me in the moment, but like that next week when I'm overwhelmed and feeling unappreciated, all of a sudden all that stuff will rush in. And the funny part is, is he doesn't know I did this experiment, but he now narrates too. So he will all say, hey babe, just so you know, I paid the taxes and I whatever with our retirement and I did this.

I'm like, thank you. I'm so glad I don't have to think about that stuff because I'm terrible at it. You know, but we've created this atmosphere of free flowing appreciation and we've normalized that we can talk about how we add value to our home and family and a lot of people can't do that because they get defensive or in tit-for-tat arguments. That's really good. I really really really like that. I'm trying to think if we do any version of that or if we need to do it more. Start doing it. I think I need to start doing it. I think we both do. Because we've definitely had those conversations where there is just a lack of appreciation

of how long something took or how many different decisions got made away from the view of somebody else. And I think that idea of narrating it in that way, which actually when you listen to it, it doesn't feel completely unnatural. Right. It doesn't feel strange, especially when it's leading to,

and now I need you to do this part, or I need you to come in on this part. There's also a kind of, I think I could see that really breeding a respect as well for, oh okay, so all of this work has been done here. Now I'm coming in at the like finish line and being asked to do this. Yes.

I better not complain about that. Whereas if you just said, hey, I need you to sign these documents. Yes. Oh my God, I've got 20 other things. Yeah, it's like immediate resentment because you just added a to do. that when you narrate like that, what you're telling me is all of the things I didn't have to do today because you did them. Yes. Yeah. It's really good. I

really like it. I really like your stuff. I, I, it feels rare when you meet someone who's just a real rational thinker has really great practical advice, you know, puts it all together in a really coherent way and it feels doable, you know, the things you say they take big problems and really difficult situations for people and you break them down and you give practical advice in a way that makes it feel really doable and hopeful and I think people like that are really rare actually. Thank you. Yeah, I really appreciate the work you do.

Look at that compliment. And you said you were good with words. Thank you. That is one of the nicest things I've been told about my work, so thank you. No, I really feel it. It's a joy to speak with someone where it just feels easy because I'm constantly interested in the next thing that you're gonna say so I hope we can do it again

and the book is called a better share it's this one right here how couples can tackle the mental load for more fun less resentment and great sex by dr. Morgan cut lip by people will find that book anywhere books are sold and what's the best way for people to find you social anywhere books are sold and what's the best way for people to find you? Social media probably Instagram it's a dr. Morgan Cutlip all one word my website is the same drmorgancutlip.com. Is there anything else you feel just for people who want to get the book they should know about it? My secret agenda in writing the book I kind of mentioned was

writing a book that men would enjoy reading that would feel like they weren't being attacked that would offer these like almost like clarifying frameworks for why things are going on in their relationship that might feel really confusing and really big and the book is for men and for women but that that was my secret agenda. And it's been really cool to watch feedback roll in. One story was a woman got the book, unpacked it, left it on the counter. It was not like passive aggressive or anything,

but then she went out and ran errands and she came home and her husband was halfway through. And it was like, I love this. And I've heard time and time again around like meaningful changes happening in relationships after husbands are reading the book and Yeah, so I just want people to know Usually both partners are really receptive to the content in the book. That's beautiful. I

truly believe that that people finding relationships and having better relationships is just One of the keys to changing the world. I don't think it's a grandiose statement at all. I really believe that. And that you're helping people have successful relationships, I think, is a really, really beautiful thing you're doing. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. Leave a comment below and let me know what spoke to you about this interview.

I'm so curious to hear because I know there was some stuff that really spoke to me. And don't forget to register for the confidence challenge before you go. We consume so much content these days and not enough of it makes a practical difference in our actual lives. This is the opposite of that. It will supercharge your efforts to find love or simply help you make more of an impact in your life. It's free, it kicks off on July the 15th and you can register at MHChallenge.com. I'll see you there. Thanks for watching!