Love Lives - #1 Mangagement rings, stealthing and cuffing season

Episode Date: September 21, 2017

In the first episode of Millennial Love, we discuss the rise of engagement rings for men, the disturbing act of sexual assault known as stealthing and share our thoughts on the start of cuffing season once again.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Hello and welcome to Millennial Love. This is the new podcast from The Independent on love, relationships and dating. In our new podcast series, we're going to be discussing topics that we've been writing about throughout the week relating to relationships, celebrity news, modern dating issues and relationships of all kind, be they romantic, between family or friends. My name is Rachel Hosey. My name is Helen Coffey. I'm Olivia Petter. And the first topic we're going to be talking about today is man-gagement rings. It may not be a word you're familiar with, but man-gagement rings are actually on the rise. And as you may be able to guess, they are engagement rings for men.

The idea is that if a woman gets to wear an engagement ring, surely in the name of equality, a man should too. However, opinions are divided olivia what do you make of it i just think it's a load of rubbish because jewelry first of all means something entirely different to a woman than it does to a man and while i agree that you know if a woman is getting an engagement ring then perhaps in order in terms of equality a man should then be receiving something as well but why does it have to be a ring particularly a diamond ring that you know I don't know many men that would want to wear a diamond ring in addition to the wedding ring that they're going to wear

anyway um so I just think it's a bit of a waste of time and a waste of money as well these things are so expensive like at least two grand for, you know, a wedding band, let alone a diamond engagement ring. It should be pointed out, though, actually, that engagement rings for men, the ones I've seen, do tend to be quite a lot cheaper than ones for women. As in you can get them for under a grand. And they do, you know, they do look different. And they do look different. If you're picturing sort of, you know, a classic engagement ring for women, a fine silver band with a giant diamond on it, if you're, you know, if you like a giant diamond. That's not what these engagement rings are.

They're actually usually quite chunky silver bands with, you know, one, two or maybe three very small diamonds sort of in the silver. So not sticking out like a giant rock um and i did speak to one man who very proudly wore an engagement ring because he his argument was that if his fiancee gets to wear one then why shouldn't he and so she bought it for him much as he bought the ring for her and they went together discussing sizes and, you know, what type of metal and everything they wanted. What do you think, Helen? Yeah, I think it's a great idea.

Why not? I think, you know, in terms of equality, as you're saying, the woman gets it. Why shouldn't the man get it? But also more than that, I always feel a little bit like an engagement ring is kind of going you're mine now I've branded you woman you belong to me the world knows it because of the sparkles coming off your finger and I think you know I would like I'd like my boyfriend to be off the market visibly you know with a big old ring why not um and I just think it kind of goes with that whole you know women trying to snare a man and like look I got the rock I've made it and I think it it takes that element out of it

a bit it does seem sexist and when you think of it that way actually the fact that women have to have some sort of marker that they're taken and they're no longer you know an option for other men whereas men it sort of sounds like oh actually they're still free and single and can do whatever they want until they actually tie the knot. And I think a lot, you know, a couple of generations ago, it was a lot less normal for, you know, men even to wear wedding rings. And that's definitely changed. Like my dad doesn't wear a wedding ring. A lot of, you know, people I know my my parents age men don't wear wedding rings and I personally do think they should because otherwise how are you supposed to know you know you might

see a really cute guy and you know get your flirt on and then you know it turns out he's married I definitely want my husband to wear to wear a wedding ring but not an engagement just not an engagement ring no but definitely a wedding ring because I think you do want that kind of commitment to one another and you know it's a part of the wedding ceremony putting the rings on each other and I do think that that is symbolic of that commitment and like you said you know you don't want them running around a bar having you know flirty women running up to them being like oh he's got no wedding ring he be single, which people do all the time. Yeah, I always, not anymore because I've got a boyfriend. But I always used to check out the wedding ring thing. That's the first thing I would do if I was chatting someone up

would literally be like, look down. Okay, good to go. Totally. Yeah, I've had a similar thing where I met this charming man on a train and he was absolutely delightful and I was thinking, met this charming man on a train and um he was absolutely delightful and I was thinking okay this is going great and then he was like yeah so I've got to go home and put my child to bed tonight and I was like okay then he was like yeah because my wife's away and I was like god damn it because he didn't have a ring on. I didn't know. Obviously, then I was like, okay, bye.

But I think a lot of people argue as well that the whole idea of man-gagement rings is actually just a massive marketing ploy and a way to, you know, get more money from people. Yeah, I mean, they are expensive. Even if they are less than £1,000, I was looking on a site at some and they were £ grand three grand four grand yeah you know if they've got diamonds all over them then they're going to be expensive

but like you say I actually can't imagine many men wearing two rings on their finger a sparkly one and a plain one which after you get married essentially mean the same thing that's very true it's true maybe there should just be no rings before the wedding give everyone time to change their mind but people i've you know pretty much every woman i know wants to get an engagement ring you know you want that sparkly ring most people anyway yeah no i do even though i don't want my husband to have an engagement ring i do want an engagement ring but i don't want a diamond i would like an emerald why because i just don't like diamonds i have something against the silverness i don't know i just don't like them but i like the color green and it's my birthday so i like emeralds i have no

idea if they're more expensive or less expensive they might well be more i definitely want a giant diamond note to future husband if you're listening start saving now and this is why i'm single one very interesting thing about um these man engagement rings however is where it comes to same-sex relationships um a brother of a friend um is engaged to a man and they both wear engagement rings because i think if you think about it if a woman proposes to a woman or a man proposes to a man and they both wear engagement rings because i think if you think about it if a woman proposes to a woman or a man proposes to a man that the whole idea of the traditional woman wearing engagement ring goes out the window yeah i kind of i think like it's a good template like my friends who are married to lesbians both one of them did the proposing but then they both got

a ring because the other one was like well i want a ring as well obviously. Hundy P. Yeah. Right why shouldn't you? I guess it comes down to what you want in your relationship. Yeah and it comes down to the individual as well like you know regardless of whether you're in a same-sex relationship or not neither party might want a ring the woman or the man you might want I don't know a watch or cufflinks or earrings or you know doesn't necessarily even have to be jewelry it could be something else just to mark the token of commitment it's funny what pony sorry it took me a second to hear that we're married here's a horse yeah an engagement pony that's what I would like well Well, you know, hopefully your boyfriend's listening. Are you listening, Olly? She wants a pony. Sound like Ruka Salt. I also have three kids. I need help making every day easier. So I switched to Google Pixel.

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dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era,

make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. On that note, let's move on to our next topic, which is stealthing. Now, stealthing has been in the news a lot recently. If you haven't heard about it, stealthing is a very grim form of sexual assault, really. It is where a man takes off the condom during sex, unbeknownst to whoever he's with, be it a man or a woman. And this has all come to light recently after a study was published earlier this year into the extent of it. And I think it's actually very important that it's, you know, being discussed a lot more. Because I think for a long time, this happened to a lot of women, but they didn't know what it was.

They didn't know it was a thing. And so people didn't know how to react. But obviously, it completely changes. how to react um but obviously it completely changes it makes an act of consent into you know arguably some people have described it as rape adjacent because actually it does it comes down to consent and it's penetration without consent i mean how would you feel if it happened to you i'd feel completely violated because like you said it is you know forget rape adjacent it is rape when you look at the definition of rape it's penetration without consent and that is essentially what is happening if a guy removes the condom without your knowledge

and there was that case in I think there's only been one convicted case of it in Switzerland where that French man was convicted of it and the reasoning behind that was because the woman said you know had I known that he would have removed the condom during sex I would have refused sex with him so you know what about that doesn't classify as a rape yeah absolutely I know rape rape crisis have spoken out to condemn it but it's still quite murky water yeah well because we've already got a system that doesn't really work with regards to sexual assault you already get sort of told all these stats about well you can come forward but the conviction rate

is so low the chance of it going to court is so low what's the point and this is another layer on top of that that's actually like well you definitely had sex with this person you agreed to have sex with them where's your proof that you didn't say yeah sure take it off let's let's enjoy this bareback sorry that's a horrible expression I wish I just hadn't said it but um yeah I think it's it's just such an act of disrespect isn't it and I think some you know some men have said they just do it because they like the the feeling is better but what I think is I mean that's horrible in itself but what's more worrying is men that do it because they like that feeling of power of like I've taken something from you that you didn't ask me to do that you didn't say yes to that I've got that level of control you know yeah I think for a

lot of men and I you know I've actually sort of done a bit of delving into the very dark side of the internet which is a very grim place never go there but it it turns out I found you know a few men who admitted to doing this and were saying that they just get such a rush from it from trying to do it without their partner realizing and then and then oh it's awful it's awful they would say that one guy said that when a woman would say oh because in the in the case it was a woman of course it's not always she said oh did you just take the condom off and he said he said that he would always just play the card of, oh, I thought you realized that I thought it

was all right. And he would act like feign innocence. And then I think for a lot of women, they don't know how to react. I have a friend who was a victim of stealthing. And she, she was she didn't really realize what was happening. Because, you know, it's not something that we, you know, consider up there with rape or, you know it's not something that we you know consider up there with rape or you know anything on that level um so she sort of went alone went along with it and it in some ways it's a bit like when you're sexually assaulted in some way and you just don't know how to react because you're not really sure what's just happened to you I think what's um when you are talking about it and saying stealthing I think the name of it is really a bit

misleading as well I know we have to call it something but actually I think the leader of that study was a bit like about saying stealthing because she said it trivialized it because actually it does make it sound just a bit like oh it's just a bit sneaky a bit covert like oh I went and stealthed there last night and if you didn't know what it meant you'd be like ah he did some stealthing nice but actually what it is is something totally abhorrent and disgusting and so I don't know if we need to maybe come up with a new name for it that reflects its you know true nature yeah it's really dark and it is technically illegal in the UK as well even though I don't think anyone's ever been convicted of it here it's only that one case in Switzerland and there was a girl who wrote about it and she was saying when she was in the

UK and she was she never took it to court because the police dissuaded her from doing so because they said you know it's so unlikely that you'll be successful you know save yourself the trauma of going of reliving that experience and they said to her apparently they they kept asking her are you sure that he did that he removed it are you sure are you aware that you could ruin this man's life while she was waiting for her HIV tests to come back, not knowing whether she'd contracted something? It's just horrific. And that would make you, if you were that woman,

it would make you question what had happened. Totally. You'd be like, oh, well, did it actually happen? And when it's your word against someone else's, then there's only two people involved. And it's just, it's so grim. As well, they were saying online that it's all these people who have this idea of male supremacy

and they think it's their right to spread their seed and they don't care about the consequences and about, you know, potentially spreading STIs or the risk of getting someone pregnant. I mean, you like to imagine that obviously that this isn't going to happen with someone in a committed relationship because obviously if the woman gets pregnant then you can't exactly just disappear off the face of the earth but either way it's messed up yeah yeah it's very dark we can move on to a lighter note.

Yes, please. So, it is cuffing season. It's not cuffing season yet. It's actually pre-cuffing season. Pre-cuffing? Yes, it's pre-game. Oh, right. So, we're just getting ready to cuff.

Yes, so cuffing season officially begins on the 1st of November. Oh, so we have a while. We have a while. So, we're currently in the pre-cuffing phase, whereby it is imperative that you scout for potential people with whom to cuff. Ah, right. This sounds incredibly dirty. I'm really sorry. What is cuffing? So it was coined by the Urban Dictionary in 2011, and it basically is a term to describe people who would typically be promiscuous, who look for relationships come the winter season. And many people have said that it starts on the 1st of November to tie in with the launch of the Starbucks pumpkin spice latte. Well, I'm going to interject and say that is launching on September 7th this year.

So it's nearly time okay earlier than expected and then it ends on valentine's day right so this is the idea that come winter people who are single suddenly feel they want a partner they want someone to snuggle up with is that right essentially someone to basically have sex on demand with to stop you having to go outside into the cold and look for a partner. I mean, understandable because who wants to go anywhere when it's cold? In these modern times with Netflix, I mean, why would you want to go outside? Quite.

But when you say it ends on Valentine's Day, that sounds quite brutal. Do you mean it literally you finish with the person because they've done their job and spring's approaching? Essentially, I think people would like to be single for Valentine's Day so that they are ready to ditch their winter cuffling, have a moment of singledom and get ready for the summer cuffing season, perhaps. Yes, because I would argue get ready for the summer cuffing season, perhaps. Yes, because I would argue that there is a summer cuffing season. I feel like come summer, end of May perhaps, suddenly there are couples everywhere. They seem to come out of hiding.

Maybe actually they've just been hibernating. I'm not sure. But I'm pretty sure that there are two cuffing seasons actually because people want someone in summer to you know go on cute picnics with and go to rooftop bars and I don't know what couples do because I'm not in one but I hear this is what they do cute stuff um lie lie in parks together reading companionly that sounds lovely sounds terribly Jane Austen of you I am very Jane Austen so if we're in pre-cuffing season now essentially we need to be sort of scouting scouting for cuffling yeah and that's why actually I was reading there's a huge importance placed on your Halloween costume for potential cuffers right because tis the eve of cuffing season so that's why you get so many you know saucy outfits on halloween parties is it that's exactly why i feel like a

bit of a dinosaur but the problem with me is i've tried i back when i was single i think i had this idea in my head of like just pick up a summer boyfriend or a winter boyfriend and because it sounds so casual and liberated but then actually you meet some guy either you don't like them in which case who wants to spend all winter with them or you really do like them and then you like them too much and then you don't really want to break up with them on Valentine's Day I think it's kind of binary for me I think actually it's probably wiser to break up with them after Valentine's Day I think it's kind of binary for me I think actually it's probably wiser to break up with them after Valentine's Day because okay Valentine's Day is a questionable holiday however surely you know it makes more sense to have a cute v-day get some chocs or

whatevs and then then break up with them after a bit brutal but arguably more brutal to break up with them on Valentine's Day. However, I am going to float the idea that actually, it's very fun to be single around Christmas. I personally rather enjoy it. You know, you're flitting between Christmas parties, the alcohol is flowing. Oh, who's that under the mistletoe? Oh, what am I doing here too? Then you're single and free to do as you please

there are a lot of parties at Christmas that is true it's a very good time to be single right yeah in fact it's like the best time to meet someone I would say and then you could meet them just before Christmas someone who isn't cuffing presumably well they've missed the pre-cuffing season just like you did yeah maybe come November you know if you're like OMG it's now cuffing season and I didn't pre-cuff now I have no options because everyone who's single pre-cuffed and is now cuffing and you're just left but then you just hang out at the mistletoe and or maybe you get people who did the cuffing but then come christmas decided no this is the wrong cuffling for me breakup even though you probably weren't official

because let's be real no one gets official for like months then you're single again for christmas but does that re-cuff i don't know well yeah I mean you've got to be careful about that because also come 24th of December everyone's off with their families so I mean let's be talking about December that's really when you want to be single 1st of December that's when all the Christmas parties happen come 24th of December everyone's with their families hiding away you got no chance that's true you can't meet anyone no however they do say that the period from like december 1st to february 14th you can't break up with anyone because it's pretty brutal to do it around christmas time isn't it that's mean you can't do it at new year you can't do it in

january because i mean january is depressing isn't it that's pretty mean when when can you do it i don't know ever you have to stay with them for the rest of your life. There's always going to be another holiday, Rachel. You're right. Or a birthday. Speaking of the holiday, though, you know in the holiday, how cute is that when they're all getting together at Christmas time and New Year?

That will make you want to cuff that film. Or love Actually. That's the perfect cuffing film, isn't it? That's basically a whole season of cuffing. It is. You're right. Every Richard Curtis film is a cuffing season chick flick. I think the answer is,

if you're struggling to snare your cuffling of choice, invite them over. Put on the Love Actually. Get the mulled wine flowing how can they resist oh my god i've been a victim of this this is this has happened to me yes oh my god wow it works mulled wine works guys i mean don't don't like drug your intended person that would be bad but sometimes if you're in the christmas spirit and the mulled wine is flowing things happen yeah on that note i think this is the end of a very delightful chat ladies thank you so much everyone for listening please do subscribe rate us very highly and tune

in again next week see you then whether you're in your running era pilates era or yoga era dive into peloton workouts that work with you from meditating at your kids game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not, just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca.