Love Lives - #16 Millennial dating protocol and texting compatibility in relationships

Episode Date: January 5, 2018

Dating someone new is a minefield - how often should you see each other? At what point should you invite them into your home? Should you do something different on every date? Joined by writer Jack May, we attempt to get to the bottom of all these issues this week on Millennial Love. We're also thinking about the importance of having compatible texting habits in a relationship and how communication changes depending on which messaging platform you use. Sliding into DMs is highly encouraged.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton.

Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, the Independent Lifestyle Desk's weekly podcast on love, dating and relationships. Hosted by me, Rachel Hosey, Assistant Lifestyle Editor, and me, Olivia Petter, Lifestyle Writer. Each week, we are discussing the core dating issues affecting millennials today. There are endless podcasts out there on relationships, but as two single ladies in our 20s, we didn't feel any really reflected our own experiences. And that's where Millennial Love comes in. This week, we are talking about texting compatibility in relationships in light of a recent study which showed that couples who have similar texting habits are actually more satisfied in the long term,

which doesn't really surprise me. I think that makes a lot of sense. And then we're also going to be talking more generally about millennial dating protocol when you start seeing someone new and what the rules might be. We're also thrilled to welcome the brilliant writer, Twitter addict and in his own words serial DM slider Jack May whom I met years ago and now continues to make me laugh on a daily basis with his very amusing tweets. So welcome Jack. Hello thank you for having me. We are pleased to have you here. So guys, tell me, how were your New Year's Eves and were they snoggerific?

I mean I have to say as much as I love this word snoggerific, it's been on my mind pretty much all day. Mine was distinctly unsnoggerific, mostly because, firstly I'm a massive New Year's Eve non-believer. I just totally don't see the point. What do you mean you don't see the point? It's just a day. It just happens. There's no real reason for it.

No, there's literally a reason for it. It's the new year. I mean, it's just kind of one unit of a calendar turning over to the next. Anyway, we can have this debate about New Year's all day if we like, but I think the long and short of it is that I've never really done it, and we tend to do it as a family thing for me.

So I was just back at my parents' place with my family. And unless incest is your game, family events tend not to be snogorific. No, valid. So mine was not really snogorific. That's valid. Have you had any other fun experiences, though, in the New Year time? Again, like I pretty much just spent the whole thing at home. And home is like a fairly rural place.

And, you know, these kind of rural locations are bad enough for the best of times. But then like kind of when you factor in, you know, gay life, these people aren't very present in the rural locations. Oh, for sure. For sure. So, yeah. No, it's nice to be back in London. There's a bit more going on. More scope for antics. Indeed. Escapades. That's our favourite word. So, yeah. No, it's nice to be back in London. There's a bit more going on. More scope for antics. Indeed. Escapades. That's our favourite word.

Escapades. Snogorific escapades galore, I'm sure. Great. What about you, Livvy? Not going to lie, don't remember the countdown. Sounds like a great night. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't snogorific because I was at a house party with all of my friends.

I'm pretty sure that hasn't stopped you before. No, it wasn't snoggerific because i was at a house party with all of my friends but um i'm pretty sure that hasn't stopped you before no it hasn't but on this occasion um i i don't think it was but as i said genuinely can't remember i get very bad memory blanks when i drink and i got a bit carried away this year i didn't have dinner which was a rookie school boy era i mean yes um and i was tucked up in home by bed at 1.30. Wow. I quite respect that early night, to be honest. Yeah. I mean, I also fell asleep in the taxi on the way home because it was like an hour-long journey.

I got there and had obviously thought that we hadn't left yet because I literally passed out instantly. And so then the driver proceeded to tell me to get out of his car. And I got really angry and said, no, I want you to take me home. I hope this wasn't an Uber. Otherwise your rating would have gone way down. My rating has gone straight down. It was an Uber.

Yeah, it was bad. I had a huge argument with him and then eventually realized we were outside. And I was like, right, thank you very much for your services. And left. Went home. Bye. Okay, so not the most successful night no

no no not really but fun nonetheless yeah what about you well I actually had an interesting situation in that I had

a date on New Year's Eve who does that but it was sort of a no a New Year's Eve like afternoon early evening before I went to my party nice

see what I mean so I'm I'm a big non-believer in afternoon dating do you believe in anything not much to be honest but no I know because I heard you talking about this last week and the idea of the afternoon date I think is kind of a bit of a rookie error because it takes out all possibility do you know what that's so interesting and this is definitely something we're going to go to in further depth later on but for me it was kind of like it was we met at like we did like 4 30 to 7 30 ish so it was like dark we're drinking cocktails it wasn't like it was but what if you fell in love i mean i'm not even sure i fall in love wait what's that quote from the holiday no that's from the holiday anyway um no so I had sort of an a new year's eve kiss but not at midnight although I did also kiss one of

my girlfriends at midnight hey Constance um but you know so I think I'm pretty well covered yeah I think you did have a terrific time kisses yeah those two kisses, I think I should be all set for a year of good luck. Yeah, well done you. I'm really pleased. I'm really pleased with myself. So speaking of all this, actually not speaking of all this,

we're going to do Bumble Bio of the Week, aren't we? Yeah. Although, so both Rachel and I have been a bit rubbish on Bumble lately. So we did find one, but it's not the best one.

Well, that's a shit, fucking L. All right. This is just an explicit podcast now. Sorry, please continue to criticize my introduction to the BumbleBio. That's a shit caveat. Like if you'd said to everyone, this is a great BumbleBio of the week, then everyone would have been like, yes, this is amazing.

Okay, fine. It's not. It's okay. It's just average. Just read it. It's from Alex. He's 24. He said, yeah, this is amazing. Okay, fine. It's not, it's, okay. Just read it. Just read it. It's from Alex and he's 24. He said, professional Quidditch player,

dash, Gryffindor, dash, class of 07. I quite like it. I like it because I have watched a lot of Harry Potter in the last few weeks.

I just feel like it's a very Christmassy thing to do and I just think, yeah, I'd swipe right on that. Also, he's a Gryffindor. Good guy. What I would say is that it sounds like he's bad at maths, because if he's class of 07 and he's 24,

that neither works for year 7 entry, nor for year 13 graduation. That's a very good point. Jake, you're so smart. He's a fool. He's an imbecile. He's an imbecile. You definitely shouldn't date him.

No, I should not date him. Yeah, he's definitely lying about his age, isn't he? Yeah, people do that all the time. He's probably a bad old man sitting behind a sad laptop in a basement. His name probably isn't even Alex. Bet he hasn't even seen Harry Potter. I bet he's a Slytherin. Squib.

Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. Slytherins are fine. Let's be reasonable here. I'm a Hufflepuff, you know. They're fine too. JK Rowling's favourite. Yeah, also Eddie Redmayne is one. That's not a good thing.

Shut up. Yes, it is. I love that you've sworn already. I know, I can't be trusted. Rachel, you swear like a fisherman's wife. Is that the phrase? A fisherman's wife? Couldn't tell you?

Never heard that in my life. All right, let's leave that. Okay, so let's move on. What we're going to talk about is, we're going to try and decipher the millennial rules for dating someone new because it is very murky water. As we've mentioned before, you're seeing someone. What does it mean?

What do you do? How do you conduct yourself? We decided to talk about this because a U.S. psychiatrist and author called Scott Carroll said that when you start seeing someone new you should see them no longer than twice a week because this gives time it gives you time for deeper feelings to develop subconsciously and they said he said rushing does not bode well for the future of the relationship okay so my initial reaction to this was like fucking hell as often as twice a week?

That sounds like an awful lot. Yeah, I'm not just going to go with it. You're just committing. So to me, that felt like really frequently. But then other people I've spoken to, including a male friend, has said like, that's nothing. I see people like four or five times a week

when I start seeing them. And I'm just like, I mean, I'm with you. I think like four or five times a week when I start seeing them. And I'm just like, I mean, what are you doing? I'm with you. I think four times, five times a week is madness, particularly in the first few weeks. Because like, where do you have to progress to after that? I think this is basically a kind of balance between a sort of traditional idea of kind of courting almost, like you're kind of wooing someone

or just like a more modern feeling of just going with it. And I almost feel like that kind of attitude is very i don't know it's a bit sort of slow and stately it's like you know you kind of treat them with your presence once a week and you kind of lead them on with a hansel and gretel trail of breadcrumbs but if you're thinking more kind of modern you know what's the point of having all this technology that allows us to kind of see each other and talk to each other as quickly and as frequently as we want if you can't just do it? I think, though, the ability to message someone all the time potentially makes people see each other less because you can be talking all the time and in constant communication without actually meeting up. But the thing is, I think it definitely does do that. But I think it also allows you if you it's basically like if you're feeling really passionate about something pretty much straight off and like sometimes that happens if you really

click with someone and you really want to see them again and if by chance your schedules are pretty free and like you work the same hours roughly the advantage of all of the stuff we have is that you can just do it like I've definitely had that before where you go on a first date with someone and it totally runs away with you and you find yourself at the end of the evening saying you know can I see you tomorrow and if you can do it then that's like a really nice feeling that you can just totally run away with it and like maybe this guy might be right it might not be the best foundation to kind of 20 years of marriage but who knows it might be the foundation to like the most hilarious and fun three weeks of your life yeah I think it's actually would be really refreshing it actually

it is really refreshing when you go on a date with someone and then like the next day they're like when when can we hang out again or when can i see you again that's actually really nice or if you know if you say it to them instead of this like tiptoeing around for ages and then it does slow things down more than is necessary and i'm actually i have changed my view on this recently so um the new year's eve date guy i have seen twice in three days which for me is like breaking many rules that's pretty right and we're gonna go out again on friday which when this podcast comes out is today um if you're listening i'm we hope it yeah but not too well.

I'm breaking this guy's rule already. That's going to be thrice in a week. To be honest, I think it depends how, just what feels natural for the two of you, because it could just be that, you know, it works that you're both free on certain evenings. And then it's almost if you're both free and you work that out, why would you not hang out with each other when you have that time like it's so rare now for people our age to find time set aside within you know all of work and

socializing and everything to find the actual time to see someone that you're dating is rare so I think to dismiss that just because oh no I can't see them more than twice a week it's ridiculous and to me often my one of my big tests of trying to work out if I actually like someone is, you know, if I don't have very many free evenings and then I have one and then I actually would rather see that person than go home and be by myself is one of my major tests. And so I think if you have coordinating free evenings

and you both want to see each other do it yeah i would say the only exception i've ever found to this is if you if you feel like you do like someone but you can kind of feel them you know when you can kind of feel them kind of dropping into it a bit faster than you are but like you know that you're not disinterested but you're like okay i need to kind of take this bit more slowly yeah like you know if you feel yourself kind of brewing in a more long-term way, whereas you feel like date two, they're down there and they're ready. In that case, I think it is kind of worth quite artificially putting a pause on it and then being like, okay, you know, only on weekends or something.

And then you kind of make some excuse being like, oh, yeah, I'm so busy and tired during the week. I just can't. I think in that case, it is quite useful. If you know that it could go somewhere and you could develop more feelings for them or kind of more of an attraction, a passion, then it is useful kind of stalling it in that way.

But I think otherwise, it's just really weird and really fake to pretend that you're just going to bizarrely hold off for no reason. Sometimes I get scared. I'm like, oh, I don't want it to go too quickly or go too fast or rush into things but it's so much fun just go wild does it end well well nothing ever does that's true isn't it because i feel like if it did end well then we'd all be married yes this podcast and indeed yeah you both wouldn't be here you just can't go

into it with that mindset no take've got to take risks. I read today that 42% of marriages end in divorce and the average marriage lasts 12 years. So it was really depressing. I don't even know what the point is. Why are we doing this? Wow. Oh, got a bit deeper. Bit much. He's not going to want to date me anymore, is he? That should definitely be your opening line on Friday.iday hi it's so nice to see you did you know 42 of marriages end in divorce yeah i don't know so what other things are there like issues in the early stages of dating i think what you do on your dates yeah quite crucial. I think it's important to mix things up and keep things diverse in terms of timing. So I think I'm one for the afternoon dating

if it's mixed in with evenings and maybe mornings. I just think it's important to take things out of different contexts because if you always meet someone you know at 7 p.m in the pub for a drink and you have the same kind of routine you don't know if you're gonna feel the same way towards them outside of that situation and I think it's really important to figure out in order to get a sense of how you feel about someone to do different things and see what you're both interested in do cultural things do activity things spend time at each other's house like mix it up so that you know really where you're at with them I have two really strong thoughts

about this and I might deliver a small sermon if you'll let me please please so one of them is that I hate how expensive it is and it's so so annoying. Yes. And when you're dating, when you're single, when you're kind of, you know, having like a dinner here, drinks here, going to a theater show here and whatever, it just adds up so much. You can find yourself spending hundreds of pounds a month. It's outrageous. And it's like totally ridiculous. I definitely feel like I've kind of just totally put a shutdown on all of that before just because it's too expensive or alternatively fallen into something too quickly just because I'm like well you know if we stop going out and just kind of fall into a proper relationship cycle then that will be cheaper which is like

a really ridiculous way to do it and the other thing is I was thinking this over Christmas because so many kind of Christmasy me films are really kind of cutesy and they always have the perfect date and it's such a sham. I was watching La La Land on New Year's Day for the first time. I hadn't seen it before. And you know that bit

where they go to that museum thing with the observatory and they dance around the stars? It's so beautiful. Such a load of rubbish though because if you think about it that would never happen

in real life. They'd never fly in real life would they? No, but that's obviously the other point. I mean, like, there are so many dates where, in films and TV shows, where, you know, it's always the guy because he has to be kind of

the impressive one. Some sort of weird peacock analogy. But they always, like, take whoever it is to some, like, closed museum or some amazing abandoned place that only they know about. That never happens. It's just not realistic. Like, if you're on a date to the V&A with someone, they'd just be kind of standing around with a bunch of schoolchildren. It'd be really loud and stressful. They'd have paid like

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i also think those kind of dates can feel very forced because it's like if you google like best dates in london that's probably something that would come up i don't think i would want someone to take me to a museum. No, I don't think I would either. I just think also in those early stages when you're getting to know someone, it's almost nicer to do things kind of, not necessarily each other's homes.

I mean, if you feel comfortable doing that, then I think that is kind of ideal. But just in quiet environments where you can actually talk to each other, like, you know, not just walking around a museum and talking about the things that you see in the exhibitions. You want to actually get to know each other. Yeah, I think we've kind of like cut you off on your sermon, haven't we?

I was done. Okay, cool. But I think that... Amen. Praise be. I think that I really like getting to know someone in the comfort of either my home or their home because you're just fully relaxed. Oh, do you now? No, but let me finish.

Let me finish. What I'm saying is I find that's actually a really nice way to just like chill out and be comfortable with someone. be comfortable with someone but i don't like the uh what are you not connotations or whatever that comes with being in someone's home you're like if you invite someone back to your home or they invite you to theirs that then it means sex is going to happen i think it's half that but it's also just on a less um dramatic level like your house is inevitably and inherently going to be so personal and so full of your stuff yeah and i don't necessarily want them to work out that many things about me that quickly yeah true point actually like they're going to look at my bookshelf and see what books are there they might like i might have a couple of cds lying around although you know it's 20

2018 so i won't but like they will see all of your stuff and you can make so many kind of quick and often quite accurate judgments about people from just their stuff it's a very valid point but on the other hand if you go to theirs you can decipher some good stuff about them but what if i don't want to what if it ruins the magic i think it raises a really interesting issue because not only is it about like when you go to their home it's kind of when do you go home with someone to actually have sex how soon is it to actually this is potentially going to is it to actually be with someone? This is potentially going to be a cultural barrier between the straight and the gay at this point.

Okay, what's your thinking? I'm not saying you can speak on behalf of all gays, but... Well, you know, I would like to think so. No, probably not. I don't know. I feel like there's a certain extent to which, you know, you don't want to generalise, but there are fewer kind of feelings of being constrained or being kind of anxious or worried about the other person. And kind of, I think a lot of it is obviously inherently going to be to do with sexism and feeling like you're kind of giving up your control or your power or anything to someone by going home with them or by bringing them back to yours.

home with them or by bringing them back to yours and there's there's obviously like a totally rational kind of fear that i don't think often homosexuals whether they're men or women or or kind of lgbt lgbt people more generally i don't think they have that in the same way so i think like a lot of time you just you just kind of did it yeah i think for women often an issue is there's still this kind of stigma that you shouldn't like you know sleep with a guy too soon i think that i think yeah i think the interesting thing about that is goes back to there's still this kind of stigma that you shouldn't like you know sleep with a guy too soon i think that i think yeah i think the interesting thing about that is goes back to what you said about control because i think there is this kind of overriding presumption that with a heterosexual relationship the guy is always up to have sex whenever the girl is ready yeah so i think by

having sex too soon in that situation sometimes it can be problematic because the girl then kind of sacrifices that control. And if it's very early in terms of the relationship, there can then be this kind of juxtaposition with how emotional feelings develop alongside kind of the sexual side to your relationship. I think that can be quite damaging, whereas I do think that if you wait a bit longer, that balances out quicker. It pisses me off a bit what doesn't piss me off but like makes me slightly angry when um my girlfriends will be telling me about a date they went on and they'll

go oh but i was a good girl i didn't go back with him i didn't sleep with him and i'm like it's not you're not a bad girl if you have sex with him yeah and like you know when people say like oh you know good thing you didn't sleep with him he'll respect you more and i'm like it's not you're not a bad girl if you have sex with him yeah and like you know when people say like oh you know good thing you didn't sleep with him he'll respect you more and i'm just like no well that shouldn't be a thing yeah you should be able to do it whenever you want to but obviously knowing when you want to can also yeah be tricky i think it's a damaging social stereotype that it's kind of always like the girl's decision as to when she gives it up, for lack of a better word. It's just bizarre how, I mean, obviously this is such a basic thing to say, but it's so bizarre how all of this stuff is just so like historical rubbish that we're still dealing with. This is basically like out of some bad medieval poem.

The idea of like when the girl gives it up. Oh, no. It's like Chaucer is writing our lives still, but we're kind of 600 years later. Like, seriously? I mean, obviously we still are, and that's the problem. But like, it sucks. I think you just have to like, just like be open with someone,

get consent, you know? Woohoo, consent. And then, yeah, I think people should just lay their cars on the table i think there is also there there's the really tricky thing and i think this happens across the board that there's the feeling that consent is a kind of a thing that you put down once and once it's there it's there and there's this feeling that i've definitely kind of felt and heard of from friends before that like once you you know put out once as it were you can't then retract that which is obviously totally not right but there's kind of this assumption that because

you've done it once you're always going to want to do it and then like you know say for example if you go home with someone on a second date and then on a third date you don't for whatever reason and you know both for men in homosexual relationships and for women in heterosexual relationships there are you know biological reasons why you might not want to. There's that feeling that's suddenly like a really dramatic thing like, oh, you know, I went home with this guy or this girl last time, but

this time they didn't want me. And this is suddenly so dramatic. It's just like, well, you know, sometimes people are in different moods and there are different circumstances. Maybe they've got their mum over to stay, you never know. Exactly. It's not necessarily a step backwards. And it also doesn't mean that, like, if you sleep with someone on one date, it shouldn't necessarily be a given that the next day and every date thereafter, you're also going to.

Yeah, I agree. And I think it can be good to almost, again, to mix it up in that circumstance so that there are no expectations that you have to meet. Keep people on their toes. Yeah. This is one of the one areas where I'm with you on the whole afternoon dates thing. So I think it is quite useful. Say, for example, if you get into a rhythm

where you have like three evening dates and you go home with them every time. If it's then like you go out for lunch, you know, you're not exactly going to get it on at a park. Or you might, and that's okay, and we're not going to judge you. But you're probably not. get it on at a park or you might and that's okay and we're not gonna judge you but you're probably not like balance of probability suggests not well you know if you know the right places but you're probably not gonna do that and i think that is an easy way to kind of break it up as you say yeah and that's really quite useful i think

people don't do that enough all right it's my lesson for the day wow we've learned so much People don't do that enough. All right. It's my lesson for the day. Wow, we've learned so much. Who needs dating experts when we've got Jack here? Too kind. Right, let's move on to dating disaster of the week.

Now, this is our first dating disaster from a male. Thank you very much for sending it in. And as we keep saying, we do want dating disasters from men as well as women. So feel free to send them in. Here goes. I was dating a girl at university when my birthday came around. It was freshers year.

We hadn't been seeing each other for very long, but she planned an excellent day with funny presents and cooked me a delicious meal. At the end of the evening, she went to get changed into some lingerie on the sly. I came upstairs upon hearing her yelps of anguish to find that while trying to put the attire on, she had slipped and broken two of her toes. I spent the last of my birthday hours in A&E, alas. We're no longer together, but thankfully we're able to still laugh about this story.

How sweet. That's so funny. I mean, the poor girl. many disasters happen with lingerie remember the first dating disaster story that was yeah the girl was wearing a pvc suit and you know zip got caught all the way down and yeah zip got stuck in a very compromising position it's enough to put you off lingerie granny pants for life um no i I really feel for the girl. She was trying to do something thoughtful and, you know, make it special for him. And then, oh, bless. I hope her toes came back.

Yeah. Otherwise, how annoying would that be? She didn't even stay together. But it sounds like he was nice and understanding. Yeah. Even though he had to finish his birthday in A&E. But anyway, thank you for sending it in. We absolutely loved it.

So our next big topic of today is texting compatibility. Now, a study has found that couples with similar texting habits are more satisfied in their relationships. And this was a study of Americans aged between 18 and 29. So our core millennial age group here, guys. So I think this is to do with many aspects of messaging, be it the frequency with which you message, the nature of the conversation,

whether they're texting just to say hi and chatting about nonsense or they're making plans or talking about serious stuff. It's all about being on the same page. What do you guys think? Do you think it's important? I'd say so, yeah. But I think, like, often it's more of a sign of something else. Like, I don't think, in a way, like, it's kind of strange

to talk about messaging as if it's some separate thing that's kind of detached from who you are as a person. Like, obviously, how you message and how you communicate is going to be totally tied in with your personality. So if you do it completely differently, it probably either suggests that you're totally different people or that one of you likes the other person a lot less.

Yeah, that you just want different things from the relationship. People do have different styles though. Some people are very much like, send like a stream of messages with like just a few words in each. Some people send like essays once a day. Some people are very much like send like a stream of messages with like just a few words in each. Some people send like essays like once a day. Some people want those quick exchanges. And some people only use texting to kind of make plans.

They don't really want to talk the rest of the time. They don't really want to have conversations because they'd rather speak in real life, which I understand. But then also I think it can be if you feel like someone doesn't want to speak to you and engage in a conversation with you. That's not great either. like someone doesn't want to speak to you and engage in a conversation with you that's not great either i've often found that like the thing is like i've often made that defense to myself i think basically when what was actually happening is just the other guy wasn't that interested yeah and i think it's very easy to make those kind of defenses just being like oh you know he just kind of uses face messenger in a different way to me like he only replies to me once a day and

that's fine and then actually you know four weeks later when you're still going through the Ben and Jerry's by yourself you know that's when you really kind of wake up and I think like a certain number which won't be divulged of those experiences has kind of taught me that ultimately I think if you do message differently in a kind of radically different way than it is probably a sign of something else rather than just like oh they're just a bit different that's fine i just think for me i want someone to want to talk to me as much as i want to talk to them if i'm going into that stage where i want to know like what did you have for lunch what did you have for dinner how long did it take you to get home how was your train journey then i want to feel like i can ask all those things and they're also going to ask me

the same thing yeah because they want to know not because they feel obliged to um so i think it just i think it really is important to be on the same page if it works for you that you don't really chat you just sort of arrange to meet up and have a nice time in person and that's fine for both of you then fine but i do think it'll only lead to resentment if you don't you aren't happy with your how much you message i think something that is actually crucial to this discussion which the study didn't mention was the type of the type of technology that you're using with the person that you're dating so by that i mean whether it's whatsapp or whether maybe the or like facebook message or maybe that person doesn't have a smartphone and the other person does because we're so used to you know talking to I mean I am

anyway like talking to my friends on whatsapp it's instantaneous you have very kind of authentic conversations because it's immediate I've never dated a guy who doesn't have a smartphone. I mean, I basically judge them if they don't even have an iPhone. Like, I'm like, if the message goes to like green, a green text message, I'm like. So I have, and you honestly, you notice a real difference. So you've been dating a guy. Someone that doesn't have a smartphone. So you're literally only communicating by text message, not even iMessage.

S-M-S. No blue ticks. S-M-S. No blue ticks. You can't tell when they've read it. Nothing. So you're literally only communicating by text message, not even our message. My God, SMS. Text message. No blue ticks. SMS. No blue ticks. You can't tell when they've read it. Nothing. And I actually quite like it because I think in the early stages of dating. Can I interrupt?

Yeah. Can you even use emojis? No. If I want to use an emoji, I kind of put it in brackets and be like, sassy girl emoji. I mean, I struggle enough. The guy recently who hasn't updated his phone. So like my most, you know, the new emojis, like the face palm girl doesn't even show up. I don't know how you cope, but go on.

See, yeah, I mean, I don't really use emojis anyway. And I'd rather see them in real life or talk to them on the phone. See the emojis in real life. That would be an interesting experience. Give us sassy girl. Just to those who cannot see rachel right now rachel just made the sassy girl emoji wonderfully i might thank you a very noble attempt um yeah i just think it's interesting because when you're texting someone it's a much more it's a much more passive form of communication than whatsapp and there are downsides and downsides to that i think one of the downsides is potentially that you do think about what you say to that person a lot more and you can over

analyze things a bit more and the pace is different so there can be kind of hours in between when you actually text i don't know why but for some reason like sms feels just a bit more i can imagine it be slower it is slower it is slower you just don't reply instantly and you don't have that same kind of uh two-way dialogue that you get with messenger or i message or you know i whatever um i always think that with facebook messenger as well it's always generally a bit slower than whatsapp yeah i don't know i don't know because i think a lot of that comes down to people's jobs as well. I find this a lot with my friends because I think having

kind of Facebook Messenger open on a screen at a workplace isn't the most outrageous thing. But unless you're one of those people who puts your WhatsApp on your desktop screen, then you're obviously on your phone. And obviously for most workplaces, if you're just sitting there at your desk on your phone that's a bit dubious so i think like a lot of the time during the working day you can get a lot quicker responses from people on facebook messenger yeah or if someone slid into your dms on twitter which you know it happens story of my life yeah are you good at sliding into dms well i find the twitter gay community fascinating

it's fascinating observe. It's fascinating. I sometimes observe it. It's fascinating, awful, toxic, lethal, horrifying, wonderful, scary. It's really interesting though. Hilarious, bonkers. I really enjoy just observing. It's quite bizarre. I almost wondered actually when you were talking about dating disasters,

if I was going to be forced to. Can you please tell the story that you tweeted last night? I could divulge. Yeah, share. The DM related disaster of my day yesterday. So I'd been, I executed what I thought was quite a good DM slide a while back. And I'd been talking to this quite nice guy. Quite nice. Oh, that's quite rude, isn't it?

Let's hope he doesn't listen. Depends if you tweet the link, which I think you do. Which I probably will. Hello. So I was, you know, having a DM conversation with this guy. And then after the new year, you know, when I got back, I was like, all right, you know, let's get something together. So I organized to go out for drinks with this guy next week. And then I was talking to like one of my best friends about this. And I said that I was getting on this date with this guy.

And he said said who is he and so i you know i sent him a picture and my friend was like oh i know him oh and i was like and he was like you know i know him and i was like oh no so then this kind of suddenly you know threw everything into sharp relief and then your friend had been involved in some capacity with the guy yes yes to be to be crystal clear about it. Just to clarify. Yeah. And so then, obviously, in my normal way,

I tweeted this fact to my loyal followers. And this turned out, basically, I'd slightly forgotten that the guy in question follows me. And so did a bunch of his friends. And so they saw it, and then they worked out that it was about him um and then he was the guy i was supposed to be on the date with was in touch with a friend of his who's also friends with my friends it's like the ultimate spider's web and the guy that he knew had this conversation with the guy that i was supposed to go on the date with

and this was then relayed to my friend and basically my friend was told with the guy that I was supposed to go on the date with. And this was then relayed to my friend. And basically, my friend was told that the guy I was supposed to be dating thought my friend was more attractive than me. Scandal. Brutal. I know. So then, you know, my friend is a good friend. We share everything with each other.

So he told me this and I was, you know, totally scandalized with this. But also by this point, it just added to the drama and we all live for the drama so this went into the tweet storm as well and things were getting pretty wild and then it kind of carried on and it was quite entertaining but then I went out for drinks with this friend and another friend um wait wait the friend from the beginning of this story yeah okay yeah with with him and another uh person and we went out to this wine bar. And as I was walking along down this row of tables, I spotted them, this group, including the guy I was supposed to be on a date with

at another table. I mean, that's ridiculous. Right? As if that happened. So I just walked past them. I was like, oh, God, I've seen them. Hopefully they haven't seen me. Don't make any eye contact.

And you hadn't met the guy in real life? No, I hadn't. No. That is jokes. So I went to my table and I kind of enjoyed myself. And I was like, oh God, this is potentially really awkward. And then one of them had clearly spotted us and brought the whole entourage over to our table

and introduced me to this guy who I was supposed to be going on the date with. And obviously both the guy that the leaked conversation had come from was there as well. And then also my friend who is allegedly more attracted than I am. Surely not. And there was this whole mass of drama and we all lived for it. And it was great. It was hilarious.

And then, you know, at that point, everything was kind of on the table. And the scandal had reached its zenith and we all went home content. And I, you know, in fairness to the guy in question, when did this come out? This comes out on Friday. On Friday. Today. Drama. In fairness to the guy, he said, you know, I'm still up for the date if you are, despite

the drama. But I'm yet to work out whether I'm going to take up that offer. Oh, you should go. Just for shits and gigs. Well, I slightly feel like at this point, if it doesn't turn into a kind of 21st century version of Much Ado About Nothing, in which we eventually get married, what's the point?

Yeah. So I'm hoping that that'll happen. It might. Because it did feel very kind of Emma Thompson, etc. Fate. I think if you got married, it'd be like a brilliant story for the wedding. It'd be wonderful, yeah.

Yeah, I love that. But most importantly, did you get some good likes and retweets? Oh, yeah. The numbers were fantastic. All worth it. I was a happy man. And we'll have to wait and see if you have, you know, compatible texting habits.

This is all. We're going to check in with you again before next week, Jack, and we're going to give the listeners an update. Sadly, guys, that's probably all we've got time for. Got it. Isn't that sad? I know. But please do subscribe, rate, and's probably all we've got time for. Got it. Isn't that sad? I know. But please do subscribe, rate and review us on iTunes.

This helps other people discover the podcast and you get a notification when a new episode becomes available every Friday, which is very exciting. Do you have a dating disaster story? We'd love to hear it. Please do send it in. You can email us at millennial.love at independent.co.uk

and don't worry, all stories will be kept anonymous. And you can also tweet us if you want to send us your slide into our DMs with your dating disaster stories. As many people have done, I think, actually. Yeah, I've had some DM slides.

That's how we get most of them. Keep them coming, guys. Yeah, definitely keep them coming. Rachel is rachel__hosey and I'm Olivia Petter 1. And Jack, what's your Twitter? I am Jack O underscore May. Brilliant. Thank you so much for coming on.

It has been a lot of fun. Thank you for having me. And we will see you all next week. See you. Bye. Bye. We'll see you next time.