Love Lives - #22 Is there ever a right time to lose your virginity?

Episode Date: February 23, 2018

Losing your virginity is often heralded as one of the most seminal moments in a person’s life. But is it always such a big deal?This week on Millennial Love we’re joined by journalist and author Radhika Sanghani to discuss some of the contentious issues surrounding ‘the first time’.Is there ever a perfect time to lose it? And why is there so much pressure to do so, particularly in your teenage years?We also share the virginity stories of some our brave and honest listeners – in addition to our own (gulp).Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know a thirsty man until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like, and now that's what my grandma's on. Thank God phone a friend with Jesse Crookshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. Hello and welcome back to Millennial Love, the Independent Lifestyle Desk's weekly podcast on love, dating and relationships.

Hosted by me, Rachel Hosey, Assistant Lifestyle Editor. And me, Olivia Petter, Lifestyle Writer. Olivia is back. I'm back. We've both been away for Millennial Love. I was just away for the week and it was killer. Olivia's been away forever. But we are back and we're ready to discuss more burning issues facing singletons today. And we hope you all had lovely Valentine's Days.

This week we are thrilled to be joined by the brilliant journalist and author Radhika Sangani. Welcome. Hi. Radhika has written two brilliant novels about being a young woman, including one, Virgin, which tells the story of a 21-year-old woman on a quest to lose her V-plates, which is why we thought Radhika would be the perfect guest to join us on this episode of Millennial Love, which is devoted to virginity and the losing thereof. But first, what have you been up to of late, Livvy, in your many weeks away?

In my many weeks away? It has been many weeks. I went to California for two weeks, which was amazing, very relaxing, very zen. Found my inner truth, you know. Right, sure. My inner yoga bunny. And then went to New York for Fashion Week, which was completely nuts. Did not really sleep or eat for a week. I mean, I ate, but, you know, like cookies and crisps and rubbish.

Not really. But you're still a vegan. Yes. It's very easy to eat vegan junk food in New York. It's literally every single place you go into there's hundreds of vegan protein bars and snacks and all sorts of things so that wasn't hard um and then I got back and I was actually on the on the flight home it was Valentine's Day and here I was thinking that they were going to sit me next to some strapping young lad with an eyebrow piercing because I really like eyebrow piercings.

That's weird. Glazing over that. Anyway, I sat next to this woman, quite sturdy woman, who was literally drinking herself into the ground. She must have had about seven G&Ts on the five-hour flight or whatever it was. And for some reason, I kept thinking of Rachel wow I mean I don't know why I just thought this is to be honest with you I think she sounds awesome and if that's my future I'm gonna be happy with that yeah it sounds about right to be honest with you Valentine's Day yeah whatever just let's drink drink yourself under the table um and then I got

back and I was meant to go on a date um and I was working late. I think it was, yeah, it was last night. I was working late and I said to the guy, oh, I'm not going to be able to meet till like 8.30. You know, thinking that's quite a normal date time. And he was like, oh, that's too late for me. I'm not going to be able to do that. Yeah, that's really weird. Sorry, what?

Grandpa? Yeah, I mean. Come on, why is that too late for a date? I've actually recently, actually, well, yeah. So I had a an interesting an interesting week where I went on three fast dates in a week that's impressive I'd literally never done this before and I don't really know how it happened uh I must have made a milkshake all my boys were coming to the yard I would like to preface this with Rachel said this

to me in a text while I was away. And I said, I think that's the funniest thing you've ever said. And she was like, I have to say on the podcast. I have to say on the podcast. Well, I don't think it's actually that funny. You just said it was funny. I think it is quite funny. But maybe, okay.

Okay, the listeners can decide. The listeners can be the judge of that. Well, anyway, my point was, I didn't really know what was going on or how I ended up going on three dates. But it was quite lol though I mean yeah so yeah I'm not gonna go into the detail of all of them because we'll be here all day but one of them was an 8 30 date and it was a weekday and this actually that guy I've gone out with a second time and the second day was also 8 30 and I'm like you know I start work at 8 a.m it's quite early but I was still like all right fine 8.30 it is thing is if you're meeting for dinner I can understand why maybe I don't know

7.30 or 8 o'clock during weeknight is preferable but when you're meeting for drinks why would you want to meet much earlier than 8.30 because you don't want to eat say you're meeting for drinks at 7 it means you have to eat dinner at what like 6 when you're probably still at work I don't know it's a bit rubbish isn't that's gonna be one of those awkward things where you don't eat and then you get and then you get white girl wasted yeah we've all been there yeah it's never good radical what have you been up to um I've had a bit of a mad week so I launched this hashtag the other day called side profile selfie I love it it's basically to like basically i've always hated my nose and i wanted to love my nose and in recent months i've been getting there and it's felt so

good that i thought i'd inspire everyone else to do it and it's worked like it's gone absolutely mad it's amazing it's such an awesome campaign i i think you're so right how you said that you know in recent months there's been so much about yeah I love your stretch marks love your dimples love whatever these things may be that you know previously we've kind of been drummed into us that they're flaws but no one's really done much about noses exactly I feel like they're basically the last taboo because you know you see everything with everything you've been saying you know body shapes you know you've had acne things like that they've all had their movements but no one ever talks about noses. And for people like me, where you feel like it's your one big flaw, it's so nice to finally have something. And I think

the fact that so many people, I've had hundreds, hundreds of people sending me selfies of their noses, which is basically the whole point of the campaign. And it's just been so great because it just shows how many people hate their noses. Yeah, such a shame isn't it yeah but I feel like things are changing and I've had some really beautiful messages um from people saying things like I used to hate my nose and you know I've hated my nose for 30 years and now I've seen this campaign and I'm starting to change my mind that's incredible I mean I've literally been crying as I've been reading these messages because they're so cute that's amazing well done you there's actually a lot of fashion models with quite prominent noses as well and they are really

they are stunning to look at and they're probably similar they probably would have hated their noses for years and then they get these jobs where their nose is suddenly their most like defining feature and that's the thing that makes them stand out and that's sometimes why they get booked jobs because they have this beautiful bone structure that's so unique yeah that's amazing but i just feel like when i'm looking at ad campaigns or you know major things you just don't see models yeah no i'm mainly talking about runway models yeah it's i know it's like so there's a high fashion there you do see it but in just mainstream opening a magazine no big noses you're so right but I mean it's encouraging to see things changing if slowly hopefully we're getting there anyway guys let's kick off with bio of the week this is a favorite bio that we've seen on a dating

app in the past week or actually in this case a couple of weeks so this is a bio of matt 26 and his bio simply read a gentleman in the streets but a freak at the buffet which really made me laugh i love that everyone loves a buffet relatable so if you take someone to a buffet and they get like one course of food i'm judging them the best thing is a hotel breakfast buffet where you can get like a sweet starter. And then a savory main course. And then a sweet dessert. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Big time. So yeah. I really respect Matt. I really enjoyed that. Yeah. Game. On to the topic of virginity. Over the past few days we asked you guys to get in touch with the stories of how you lost your virginities.

And because we knew there was no such thing as a perfect experience, so we hoped that by sharing some of your anecdotes, we could kind of get that across. So thank you for everyone who sent them in. And over the course of the episode, we're going to be reading out a few of the anecdotes. Obviously, the names have been changed. So first up, this is 25-year-old Sarah's story. I lost my virginity when I was 20. So first up, this is 25-year-old Sarah's story. But whose is? It was the double sofa bed in my parents' house while they were both away for the week and it was honestly rubbish. Obviously I didn't tell him that

but I felt quite deflated afterwards and honestly didn't feel like I had been missing out on much. I'm now happily married and have been for nearly three years to a different guy and the sex nowadays is amazing. I think it's really shown me that the right person can make it good for both of you and that they will also take time to make sure you're enjoying it.

I think that's quite sweet. I think it's relatable's very relatable six months as well to wait i think it's quite a long time for you know the guy to be that patient yeah true i think it's interesting you know she says the right person can make it good for both of you i don't feel like necessarily it was 100% down to the right person thing I think it was down to like the fact that it's literally the first time it's painful I think it's all about how comfortable you feel with the situation in terms of like whether when you're deciding I don't know if you're presented with an opportunity and you are still a virgin I think it's totally dependent on just if you feel comfortable with that person in that situation well this is exactly the first thing we want to talk about

on the topic is that is there a perfect time or age now my initial response to this is absolutely not but so you Olivia you looked up what the average age is right yeah so durex did a study in 2016 of what the average age is for people around the world when they lose their virginity and the average was 17 um but in the uk i think it was 18 and it was the same in the us and it was that the same for men and women yeah i think it was it was i think there was another one that said it might be 17 for men and 18 for women. But it was roughly the same. And I thought that was actually a bit later than I thought it would be. Same actually.

Yeah, me too. And I think that's actually so nice. But I think it shows something really relatable, which is that I feel like when you're at school, it seems like everyone is having sex. Everyone's lost their virginity by sixth form, basically. But it's so nice to know that in reality, that's not the case. It's happening a little bit later. It's's so interesting I was talking to a friend recently and she said that when she was

at school she felt like it was a competition of who could lose their virginity first and that kind of really surprised me because I personally never felt that no I never felt that either actually I had some friends that lost it very young. I think maybe the earliest was 13. Yeah, I know people who are that young. Yeah, and I just, I don't know, the thought of having sex at 13, it's like, God, you probably haven't even started your period yet. Well, the thing is that that's the thing.

Everyone, you hit puberty and you mature. Everyone matures so differently. I was such a late bloomer I you know didn't hit puberty probably till we were like 14 or something what you gonna say like 21 I hit puberty last week yeah it's really rough no I have now hit puberty so good times um but yeah so I at the age of 13 or 14 I had absolutely like zero sexual desires I had no literally no interest in sex it was it wasn't something I even thought about wanting to do no I barely wanted to kiss a boy yeah just no like awareness really how old were you when you had your first kiss ah 15 really yep I think I was either 14 or 15 as well but for me I'm I was different to you guys like I wanted to have my first kiss at like 13

and I was like can someone just kiss me and then just go boys into me so I was like waiting two years and when it finally happened I I was like, oh my God, it's finally here. I didn't even care who it was. I just wanted it to happen. I remember I had my first kiss and then various months later, I had my first like snog.

Oh, they were different. Oh, they were different. Yeah. Mine was all in one. Yeah, me too.

How old were you? I was 12. Woo! Woo! Yeah, but I went to boarding school and we used to suck face the whole time because there's nothing else to do. What a nice way of wording it.

I know. And he actually bit my lip on that evening. So then I went back to... Hard? Yeah. Yeah. I went back to... This was at boarding school.

I went back to my boarding house and I had a little cut on my lip and the housemistress was like, oh, what have you done? I was like, oh, nothing, nothing, I'm fine. I'm like, kind of covered it up. That's so funny. Yeah, it's really romantic. You know when people get hickeys? I've never had a hickey.

I just don't understand them. I don't understand. I'm going off topic, but I don't understand the lure of sucking someone's skin that hard. I don't get it. No, I've never had a hickey. I mean, I'm brown,

so like nothing would ever show on me. Valid point. You're safe. I don't know. I think there's no perfect age and there's no perfect time, but I think you just have to wait till you're ready. If I talk about like me personally,

as I said, late bloomer and I I didn't have a boyfriend or anything through my school years and I remember thinking I don't want to have sex until I'm in um a serious relationship and then I went to uni um that still didn't really happen. I still was not in a relationship, which I've now learned is down to various issues on my part with intimacy and commitment. That's a whole other podcast episode. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But I remember, you know, the older I got,

I didn't feel like, oh, my God, I need to lose my virginity. I really need to lose my virginity. Because I know that if I really wanted to, I could do it. do it like you know it wasn't going to be too much of a struggle if I was so desperate but I wasn't until gradually I got to the realization that actually I think I'd just like to do it with someone I'm comfortable with I'm hopefully like seeing in some capacity and that I fancy and that's what I did that's so great so in my book Virgin the character Ellie she's absolutely obsessed with losing her virginity because she's 21 and she's you know at uni and that everyone's playing things like never have I

ever and she feels she can't contribute because every single question is sex related and that was literally me I like when we played never have I ever I never drank so I was like I haven't done any of the things but I wasn't desperate to do them but that's so great because it sounds like you were just in such a good position with it that you were just you know owning yourself and you knew what you wanted and that's so good but my character she basically is just so mortified that she's just like drinking and pretending she has and that's kind of based on not like a tiny bit me but also mainly just a lot of my friends and people I knew at uni that was so really their experience it was just kind of embarrassing to admit that you hadn't had sex yeah at that age

yeah I had a lot of friends like that as well actually and as comfortable as I was with my virginal status if you will I will, I did have concerns there because I realised that when I did start having sex, I would then be a little bit, I was worried it would be awkward to have to explain, like, I know I'm quite old, but I haven't done this before. Or even, you know, when it got to the second guy I would sleep with or something,

how to explain that I've actually done this with one guy before, even if that was a few times with that first guy you know then that does put you in a bit of a position where it's unusual to be you know in your 20s or whatever and and you feel so vulnerable already yeah to then make yourself even more vulnerable by saying oh by the way I don't actually know what the hell I'm doing I actually had a very interesting thing because the guy I was seeing at the time it got to maybe like I don't know the third date in or something and you would date so you were dating this guy uh yeah I suppose we were seeing each other or that dreaded term hanging out yeah I love that hanging out oh it's just hanging out what is that anyway that's what we were doing and And it got to the point where we'd hung out a few times.

And, you know, things are moving that way. And I sort of felt like I had to stop and, you know, tell him. And I was so taken aback. I told him and he went, I know. I was like, what? What had you done to make that obvious? How did you know? So what it was, was we had a lot of mutual friends.

And so after the very first time we'd got together, which was at some uni ball or party or something, one of my friends had told him. And originally I was a bit like, why did she do that? But she was actually trying to do it in a protective way, like don't mess her around and treat her with respect. And arguably, I was a bit like, okay, that's actually quite nice that he knows that I'm probably not going to drop my knickers straight away.

That is quite nice because in your head, even though this would never happen, but I think when you have sex for the first time, a part of you might be embarrassed to admit that you're a virgin because you're like, well, what if they don't want to have sex with me because I've never had sex before obviously that that probably would never happen but it's just like oh god is this okay can I you okay to do this with me even though I don't know what I'm doing it's such an awkward thing and you know what's really funny I I watched Lady Bird the other day have you guys seen it it's amazing but I'm just going to spoil one scene for you. Because I feel like virginity is so rarely seen on screen when it's a woman and it's

done in a really relatable way. But this was really relatable. Apart from when she actually loses her virginity, she's on top. Like, can we just have a moment? She's on top. Like, who does that? Oh my gosh. So this is actually what I wanted to discuss as well.

I feel like it's easier if you're a virgin and then you're losing virginity to be the woman because you can kind of just lie there, actually. You can just kind of lie there and, you know, the guy does most of the work. Lie back and think of England, as they say. Exactly. But I feel like for a guy losing his virginity, you sort of need to know what you're doing a bit more. So the fact that she was on top.

I know, and to be fair, they do reference it in the film he then makes a comment like you know acknowledging that she was on top but they didn't really get to how she got she just sort of goes there and I just found that so impressive but then I also thought I don't know maybe this is like a thing that maybe younger people would do because you know more about sex because maybe you've watched more porn or that kind of thing but yeah just interesting interesting i also like you know if two people lose their virginity together how does anyone know what is going on it must be so cute though i suppose maybe if you're like properly with someone you're like childhood sweethearts or something maybe just discover it all together childhood sweetheart yeah can you tell I didn't have one?

Yeah, I'm like, surely I, well, I'm glad I did it. Someone who knew what they were doing because I didn't have any idea. Good times. Twas the season of chaos and all through the house, not one person was stressing. Holla differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

I'm Jessie Kirkshank, and on my podcast, Phone a Friend, I break down the biggest stories in pop culture. But when I have questions, I get to phone a friend. I phone my old friend, Dan Levy. You will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know what thirsty meant until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like a no. That's what my grandma's on.

Thank God Phone a Friend with Jessi Cruokshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. Should we tell another virginity story? Yes. so this is from jenny who's 25 she says i've been dating the guy for about seven months and had been super coy about doing stuff i was 18 and a virgin he was 18 and had already had a few sexual partners there was a lot of sexual tension and we'd got really close but I didn't ever feel

ready to do the deed and to his credit he patiently waited. One day I woke up in May and just thought fuck it it's time. I know he loves me and this is obviously the real deal for now. So the time and the person is right. He came over to my family home probably expecting a night of unsatisfying sexual grinding. I said good night to my parents and as soon as we were out of sight up to the charm and led him to my bedroom conjuring up all the sexual muster i could i thought it best to go to the bathroom beforehand and change into some slightly more promiscuous underwear i pulled down my mns numbers and my period had come damn it i went back into the bedroom and told him what had happened he told me we could do it anyway Oh, no. Oh, my God. by asking, is it him? To which he horrifiedly proclaimed that it was

and we were in fact having sex. Oh my God. I thought, what? Is this it? It has to get better than this. What is all the fuss about and why had I bigged this up in my head to something it wasn't?

Anyway, the next day came around and we awoke officially as lovers. He asked me to pass him his phone and I saw a text from his ex telling him how nice it had been to speak yesterday and couldn't wait to talk again. Jesus. I cried. A lot. But he used his teenage charm to get back into my good books and we slept together again as soon as I came off my period. And that time was way, way better. came off my period and that time was way way better maybe there were underlying nerves beforehand or my expectations of this overwhelming feeling had been negated after the initial time but it felt

like i was probably losing my virginity to him then i don't regret it because i never expected it to be a life-changing moment and i haven't heard any unbumbly stories about losing virginities but god did i feel let down by what had been built up to something it was just not. So I think that story is amazing. It could be a short story. I mean, there's so much in there. I love that she was on her period. I think that's really great because this is something that you and I were talking about the other day, period sex. There's such a taboo around it. Well, I think we have to do a whole other episode. Yeah, I think we will. But it's just, it's really interesting because most of the time the guy just doesn't give a shit oh god i swear i mean i already swore in that story so it's fine the guy doesn't give a shit yeah and girls always

think they will we're gonna we're gonna have to save that for another time though to be honest but i think this story fits in quite nicely with the sort of next aspect to this is that a like why is there so much pressure and build up and fuss around it and do you think it varies between genders I used to think it did you know when you're growing up and you watch all those American Pie movies and then it always feels like for the man virginity is the thing and women are there to be conquered and then when you're a teenager yourself you're like well actually no I want to just as much as the guys and I know you two maybe didn't have this but in my circle of friends there was the expectation and pressure

to have sex like everyone was doing it so there was that same pressure that I suppose boys stereotypically have had did you feel the pressure Livvy I don't know if I felt the pressure to have sex but I felt the pressure to be a part of the sex conversation because like you said about saying never have I ever and just at parties like people would go off in pairs and even at school people have sex on campus like it was just such a big part of our kind of dialogue but I um I was actually 18 and I was at university so I kind of made it through my whole school life without having sex and it it wasn't like I went out thinking okay tonight I'm gonna go and lose my virginity I'm gonna do it like I had come into situations when I was younger like 15 16 where I could have had sex and I didn't

because I didn't feel comfortable for various reasons and I don't know there was just I had been spending a lot of time with this guy when I first got to uni we became very good friends and after nights out we would just kind of hang out in his room and it felt quite platonic at the time and then it was just on one of those nights that we ended up having sex and we never did it again we never spoke really spoke about it afterwards we never even kissed again did he know that you were a virgin we're all thinking the same thing so i to this day i don't know if he knew wow yeah you know what i i would have been so nervous about not telling a guy like you know for many and not many there haven't even been that many i mean i don't really know what i'm saying um you dug yourself a hole

i know even still now like or like when you're I don't know if anyone fully feels that sexually confident and I I don't know you always it's kind of like it's imposter syndrome as with anything else I almost sort of want to caveat being like uh sorry if I don't know what I'm doing sorry if I'm bad but like you know I that's just like saying bt dubs sorry I'm a virgin but you shouldn't say sorry obviously yeah it's just it's just a weird caveat to add into the it's into what is already quite an awkward fumbly situation i really wanted them to know it was my first time because i just felt like i even before i got to that point i always knew that i just wanted them to be aware not even just to like

you know make it sacred or special but more just like a practical thing. Like just so you know, be gentle. Yeah. Don't break me. I completely see that's what I should have done. And that is the sense, that is the advice I would give to someone. Yeah. But in my head, I was like, I just want to skip all of that and pretend that I know exactly what I'm doing. And not have it be an awkward thing.

Because I kind of knew this wasn't going to turn into a relationship. Sure. And, you know, he's still a very good friend of mine and it's just yeah I could I just goes to show that there's no ideal situation the thing is though I think a lot of I don't know if this maybe this goes for men as well but I think okay maybe a lot of people generally if they are a virgin and they're getting to the point where they're gonna have sex I think a lot of people don't want to tell that person they are a virgin and they're getting to the point where they're going to have sex, I think a lot of people don't want to tell that person they're a virgin because they're worried that the other person will be like, ah, okay, I'm not going to do this anymore.

Yeah, exactly. I don't want you to get all attached. Yeah, and that has happened to my friends. Sorry. I think that subconsciously was part of what I was doing because I didn't think that I was going to have particularly strong feelings for this guy and I didn't want him to conflate this with something more meaningful I just it just sort of felt it was a situation where I mean I was drunk he was drunk and I felt comfortable

and that was it and I didn't want to make a bigger deal out of it than it had to be okay let's pause here on that note because I think this connection thing is really interesting, but I think we should read the next virginity story, because it's very much, it's the other extreme on the connection scale. Actually, this is, well, you'll see, you'll see. Let's read this and then go back to the connection issue. Okay, so this is from Ben, who is 34. I was 21 and still a virgin,

which was a running joke with my mates. They thought it was so hilarious and tragic that when we went on a lads weekend away to Hamburg, they thought it would be funny for me to go and see a prostitute do the deed. Trouble was, I was so pissed that I couldn't, well, keep it up. So she then offered to give me a blowjob instead if I paid more. So I gave her my credit card and PIN number. She then came back to say the card wasn't working, if I paid more. So I gave her my credit card and PIN number. She then came back to say the card wasn't working. So I left it.

It wasn't until afterwards that I realised she'd taken all my money and I was still a virgin. That's such a sad story. It's so bleak. I really feel for that guy. Yeah, me too. He was clearly someone who didn't care at all about there being any emotional

connection or issue. No, I actually have a friend that did the same. They lost their virginity to a prostitute in Amsterdam. I sort of feel like that's sad, but if that's what the person wants to do, that's what they want to do. It's everyone's choice. Yeah, and so subjective.

And no one's is usually great. No, I know so few people that were in relationships when they lost it. It's awkward it's often painful I think even if you are in a relationship like what I loved about that previous story we heard was um that she was like is this it because I just feel like it's so true that you build up in your head as this oh my god sex like sex and then you do it and you're like oh it's just like bodies doing things yeah and I think a relationship

is actually something that takes a lot more emotional maturity to commit to than just having sex which is why I think no person should have to if they don't want to wait to be in a committed relationship to choose to have sex that shouldn't stop you totally I could see you know you know how so many people that there's that stereotype that um if women have sex with a man and they want that phone call in the morning and it's just that is so personal and individual yeah of course some women might have slept with somebody hoping it was more of a serious thing but some women just sleep with someone and walk away and never want to hear from them again and that's so fine i i remember so obviously when i lost my virginity the vast majority of my friends had already done so

and they all told me that you have to wait till roughly the 10th time you have sex and that's when it gets good and you'll actually enjoy it the 10th wow that's a lot yeah if that was the case I would have given up at like number 5 this isn't for me

I'm gonna leave the sex stuff I don't need this well yeah I know but what do you guys think about the emotional connection thing because there is this kind of weird idea that you like you know whoever you lose your virginity to you just have this like emotional connection to and this I don't know how to explain it do you think that actually exists I don't know I feel like it again it's I I'm just going back now to my first time to think about that and I feel like everyone's probably doing the exact same thing and I don't know I think it's not really like you know how everybody has that thing about your first love and is it a really big deal on your first kiss, your first.

For me, my firsts actually aren't that important. You know, I've had much more meaningful connections in many ways since. And those are a much bigger deal to me than my firsts. Yeah, I agree. And I think sex is something that just gets better the more you have it. So obviously the most cherished time isn't going to be the first time because it's probably the worst time. So true. And I'm sure, I mean, I don't have any experience really of this but I'm sure that like you know

when you're in a serious long-term committed relationship and you sort of get to know that person both their body and their what they like on a physical level but also emotional connection I'm sure that actually that's when it gets really good and those are the best sexual experience rather than the ones that are the early days. But also I think those casual ones can be as well, like equally as fulfilling. I think what's the most important thing is that as you get older,

you know your body and you know what you want and you can ask for it. It doesn't matter who the person is, a one-nighter, a boyfriend of 10 years, you say what you want and then you can communicate and get it. And that's what makes sex amazing. Yeah, my first time the guy was like what do you like and I was like I don't know but that's him for asking when your first time and I was like mate I haven't got a clue

I couldn't tell you um yeah I don't know I guess there's always like maybe in a very slight like very in the background level of fondness that might persist even though maybe the person in question, like it ended badly or, you know, even if it didn't, you know, you were seeing each other, you were dating, even if it ended badly, if it was the first person, there might always be a little something. But I think it's way overstated, this whole idea.

I think it's more of just a general, like like a care and maybe an affinity to that person but it's not necessarily an idealized vision of that person being the one that got away nah nah maybe we got away maybe we are the ones that are always getting away. Right, let's have another story. This is from Annabelle, who's 24. I waited a year before I lost my virginity to my first proper boyfriend, i.e. not just snogging in lunchtime for a week. However, we started dating at 12, so I was just 13 when we started sleeping together. We were in the same form at school and got together thanks to a school music competition,

and we were together for about four years in the end. He was also 13 and it happened the week before his 14th birthday. We had planned to lose our V-plays on his birthday, not really sure why, but then found out we were going to be on a school trip that day getting back super late so we changed plans. We used to hang out at each other's houses, but mainly his as his family were more relaxed about us being alone together. At least one or two nights a week after school and always on Friday or Saturday night. I think it was probably a weekend as there was more chance of us having the house to ourselves. But it was an evening like any other and his mum actually ended up being in and downstairs in the living room under his room watching TV. Oh my god.

being in and downstairs in the living room under his room watching TV. Oh my god. I wasn't really that nervous as we had done all the other stuff anyway and we'd been together for quite a while. I'd never really felt pressured into taking the next step and sleeping together. It was fairly unremarkable in many ways and it was just a bit of a relief to no longer have the thing of the first time hanging over us. We knew we were going to be each other's first at some point, so why wait? We were safe about it. He had actually confided in his older brother about it, who was a bit apprehensive due to our age, but once he spoke to me and checked I

wasn't being pressured, he actually bought us some condoms. At least with his brother in the know, we wouldn't have to worry about him walking in during the deed, as him and his brother actually shared a room the entire time we were together which made for some interesting close shaves in the next few years we broke up fairly dramatically a few years later but we still see each other now from time to time at friends weddings and i'm really glad it was him as at the time he meant a lot to me and it was realistically just what i would want low-key no pressure though maybe if I were to have my time again, his mum wouldn't be downstairs. That's so funny because I bet that happens all the time that,

you know, when you're, because when you're young and you're having sex, it's usually that you're living at home. So it's very likely that it's going to be your parents are going to be home as well at the same time. And I think it's nice that story of how she sort of says that, yeah, we broke up dramatically you know it sounded like it wasn't the greatest end to the relationship but it's still it's still okay between them and she has no regrets the age thing is also really interesting to me yeah you know like to me 13 feels really young and I when I was at school I had a friend who lost her virginity at 13 as well. And it's so funny because now, you know,

I'm in my late 20s and I'm like, oh my goodness, 13, I couldn't imagine having sex then. But that's already just me being ridiculous and old because when I was 13, it did not feel weird that my friend had. I knew I wasn't ready for it, but sex was in, you know, it was in our consciousness. Like we were talking about sex at the time.

So it's just, I suppose it's just making me think now how you know older people might judge young people for having sex really early but actually when you are really young that's what everyone's doing and that's what people are thinking about and talking about so if you feel ready you know I suppose who are we to judge yeah I just think it's important that you don't feel pressured by your partner, the person that you do it with. Absolutely, definitely. That's the most important thing. Well, pressured by anyone.

It's really hard, especially when you're young, because peer pressure is, you know, really hard to be strong against or, you know, if you don't feel ready but there's all this pressure

on you to do it, that's really hard. Interestingly, I actually think with all the you know myriad of pressures that young people face today losing your virginity is probably one of the only ones that doesn't come from social media because I think sex really isn't something that you see on social media and you know thank God but it's it's it's only really ever implied through like sexy selfies or like bikini shots or whatever but it's never it's it's a pressure that comes from the people in your life around you and from those real life discussions

and I think that's almost why maybe it feels that much more pertinent when you do have those pressures because it's not online it's something that is in your daily real life existence I think okay so final sort of talking point before we wrap up do you think society as a whole places too much importance and makes too much of a fuss of losing your virginity yes yeah I really do I I just think you know as we've said repeatedly it's an individual personal thing but yet there's this idea in this stereotype that it should be candles and love and playlist or whatever and the the very least you know it should be someone you really care about or something you've really thought about and for you know it doesn't have to be that way and I just feel like there are too many stereotypical ideas of what it should be and for so long I mean until Lady Bird like that's kind of what you see in movies and tv shows

and so I do think you know and that's obviously how it will be for some people but it's also good to show the other side where it might not really mean anything at all and you might never cherish it and it might just be a body thing that like a physical thing that you just do and don't really think much of yeah yeah I think also the conversations surrounding virginity sort of generates some of the most harmful gender stereotypes as well because for a man if if they're young it's like oh wicked go mate and it like sort of endorses their masculinity whereas you know if a guy is older, it kind of throws a lot of things under question and he probably feels more insecure about it.

Whereas for a woman, if you do it too young, you're seen as a harlot. And if you wait too late, you're seen as like a frigid, virginal, you know, it's just there's so many kind of archaic stereotypes that we apply to these conversations. And even though we see them as outdated i think they are very much entrenched in these conversations there's also such a thing

about the language we use with virginity like like i gave him my virginity or he took my virginity yeah like it makes it sound like some weird gift you're giving someone yeah it's a joint thing you're doing together you're not giving something to someone the taking it's and the losing yeah yeah the losing implies it's like disposable and it's sort of this like your one time chance oh my god who am i going to give this special gift to yeah it's not really like that it kind of suggests that also it's like everyone's ultimate goal is to get rid of it as quickly as they can and it sort of also implies that there's a competition about it, like you said.

And it's just, for some people, it's something that they cherish right up until marriage. Yeah. At the end of the day, it's just P and V. Oh, God. So true. I can't argue with that. Not long at all.

It came to me off the cuff. Remember one episode previously where I explained sex? Yes. Good times. That was good times. So, guys. Very helpful. We're out of time.

Oh, no. I know. So sad. So much to talk about. That is it for today, everyone. But please subscribe, rate and review us on iTunes as this helps other people discover the podcast and really does mean the world to us. And because we've had your virginity stories this week,

we sadly haven't had time for any dating disasters or dilemmas of the week, but we're still keen to hear your stories on these. So if you do have any funny, tragic or painful dating anecdotes or would like some relationship advice, please do get in touch by emailing us at millennial.love at independent.co.uk

or you can tweet us at Rachel underscore Hosey and Olivia Petter 1. And obviously all stories will be kept anonymous. You can also contact us by joining our Facebook group. This is where we're discussing topics from the podcast, news from the dating world and also asking you guys questions. We would love to hear your feedback.

To join, just go to facebook.com slash groups slash millennial.love. So thanks for listening, everyone. And thanks so much to Radhika for joining us. Thank you. It's been great. It's been so great. So fun. And we will see you next week.

Bye. It was the season of chaos and all through the house, not one person was stressing. Holla differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash.