Love Lives - #23 Does it matter if your partner doesn't share your political views and values?

Episode Date: March 2, 2018

This week on Millennial Love we welcome the brilliant trans activist Charlie Craggs to help us get to the bottom of how important it is to have common interests with a romantic partner. Could you... date a Tory if you're a passionate Corbynista? Do opposites really attract? And does it matter if your date isn't 'woke'? (Don't know what 'woke' means? Fear not, we explain.) Let us know your thoughts on the episode by joining our Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/millennial.love/Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 It was the season of chaos and all through the house, not one person was stressing. Holla differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash. Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, the Independent Lifestyle Desk's weekly podcast on love, dating and relationships, hosted by me, Olivia Petter, Lifestyle Writer, and me, Rachel Hosey, Assistant Lifestyle Editor. There's no shortage of podcasts out there on the subject of love, but we felt there weren't any that really reflected our own dating experiences
Starting point is 00:00:41 as two single ladies in their 20s navigating the murky waters of dating today. That's why we decided to launch Millennial Love. This week we are thrilled to welcome trans activist and author of To My Trans Sisters, Charlie Craggs. Welcome Charlie. Hi girls, how are you? We're great, we're thrilled to have you. How are you? I'm okay, a bit snuffly in coffee, sorry if my voice, I mean I'm just trying to make up for the fact that I'm trans and have a deep voice. But I do actually have a cold as well, guys. Listening at home. Do you know what?
Starting point is 00:01:11 A few weeks ago, we did an episode when I had a cold. And I was really convinced I was going to come across all kind of sultry and sexy. Like when Phoebe gets that cold. I was about to say, like when Phoebe in Friends has that sexy voice. It didn't really work for me, to be honest. I was a bit disappointed it wasn't as sexy as I thought it would be. A honey story of my life. I've tried to make it my brand it's just not working. No work it work it work it it's going great. So can you tell the listeners a little bit about Nail Transphobia and about your book?
Starting point is 00:01:38 Yeah so I run a campaign called Nail Transphobia where I basically travel around the UK with a pop-up nail salon offering the public free manicures for the chance to sit down and have a chat with a trans person, just to give them a chance to kind of like ask questions. Cause I feel like most people haven't actually, well, I know most people haven't actually met a trans person, but often they have like misconceptions about us. So I've been doing it for like four years now, just as a way to kind of like humanize the issue a bit, which I think is really important with the kind of like the narrative that's in the media at the moment.'s getting a lot better but like I think it's really important just to like humanize it and to remind people that trans people are just people
Starting point is 00:02:12 and we're kind of nice people too um and then yeah from that I got asked to do a book and I basically um just kind of created the book I Wish I Had When I Started Transitioning which is a book of about 100 letters from trailblazing trans men kind of offering advice to girls who are beginning their transitions or going through transition um yeah just kind of offering advice from things like I don't know like how to cover five o'clock shadow to how to deal with transphobia to like I don't know self-love and like do you know all just basically everything we wish we knew like sharing with our younger selves who are like girls transitioning now.
Starting point is 00:02:47 I think that's so important. So important. And love as well. There's a lot about love in there. So on brand for this. For the listeners. The world revolves around love, my friends.
Starting point is 00:02:55 Olivia's wearing a jumper that says love on it. I am. Oh my God, cringe. I didn't even realise. Oh my God. Oh my God. Very on brand.
Starting point is 00:03:02 So on brand. I just need one that says millennial that we can just stand next to each other at all times. I need one that just says like mess. Millennial mess could have been another title for this podcast. That would be my podcast, yeah.
Starting point is 00:03:13 You'll see in like a week, I'll start doing that. It's amazing. No, but I love the whole concept of nail transphobia as well. Thank you, baby. I think it's brilliant. Thank you so much.
Starting point is 00:03:22 As well, so necessary. I just love getting their nails done. Yeah, well, yeah, that's why I started. I was like, it's a really good way of engaging well so necessary he doesn't love getting their nails yeah well yeah that's why I started I was like it's a really good way of engaging people in the conversation because you're offering
Starting point is 00:03:28 the nails because I think if I was just sitting at a desk like come speak to me about trans issues like some people would but most people
Starting point is 00:03:33 just would walk past and so I was like hmm clever and also they're very like intimate so you're able to hold hands of a stranger and if you can't
Starting point is 00:03:41 feel my humanity after holding my hand you're a psychopath like I'm a very nice person and when you're holding my hand i'm painting your nails i'm having a good old chat you can't go away not like not you can't go and hate trans people anymore if you did hate trans people to begin with i think it's it you'd be weird yeah messed up yeah well we're all a bit messed up but that's next level and i do feel like when you're having a money i always talk about really personal stuff with the manicure and hairdressers as well.
Starting point is 00:04:05 Like they know a bit too much about my dating life. I know. I mean, I'm quite open about it anyway. Yeah, me too. As we know. Well, we sort of have to be, don't we? This speaking of getting personal, this week we are going to talk about different views and interests in dating and how that kind of plays a part. When you start dating someone and how much of an issue it can be if someone doesn't share your political views and if it really is true that opposites attract
Starting point is 00:04:31 because everyone says it's so important to have that yin and yang dynamic but then other people just want to be with someone that's just like them. So I think we'll all have different things to say on that from past experiences. I know I certainly do. I can't wait but first Rachel what have you been up to this week well well basically I started dating this guy and we went on three dates and I've sort of in the past sort of week or so I've been like a 360 I've been I got to the point where after the third date i was like oh my god
Starting point is 00:05:06 i think i've caught feelings and i i never catch feelings and all my friends were like oh my god that's so exciting and i was like no it's not it sucks this feels horrid and then i've literally flipped now like no i think he's a fuck boy and i've i've come Yes, I have just sworn. Okay. Oops. But there's no other way to describe it. No, yeah. It's like a real dictionary term, I feel like now.
Starting point is 00:05:31 It's like a valid, legitimate. Exactly, which we discussed fuckboys many episodes back, actually. I can't believe we're on episode 23. I know. From what you've said to me, though, he does sound like a genuine,
Starting point is 00:05:41 straight-up fuckboy. And I don't think you ever really caught feels. I think you caught the lusty feels, which I don't think is the same thing. Could have been the lusty feels. You're sprung. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:05:50 What did you say I was? When? What was that term that Dolly said a few episodes back? Spunk drunk. Oh! Oh my God, you're disgusting. I'm a Christian. Yeah, you're disgusting. I'm a Christian. You're that.
Starting point is 00:06:07 I knew I hadn't caught actual feels, God forbid. But anyway, that's where I'm at. So back to square one. Oh, it's such a good place to be in square one. Well, I'm right back to square one with you because I got dumped a few weeks ago. I don't even know if I feel vindicated to say dumped because it's that kind of thing where it's like,
Starting point is 00:06:23 you know, you don't make it past three month mark. So it's like, is it really a dumping or is it just like a cut off? This isn't happening anymore kind of thing. So, yeah, back to square one. Back with Rachel. Many fish in the sea. Yeah. So many fish.
Starting point is 00:06:41 What have you been doing, Charlie? Well, I haven't left square one, like, ever. Like, I am just, yeah, in an eternal state of just, like, smooching. Is that a word? I, like, just mix two words. But basically, just, like... Sounds like a good thing to do. I don't know.
Starting point is 00:06:57 Like, I've come to kind of like it. Like, it's not why I wanted, like, I'm kind of, like, I would love to be, like, the wifey type. Like, I'm very boring in that way that I just, like, one this sort of thing but like guys don't want that with me with a trans girl it's just not no one's looking no one's looking to like wife a trans girl so like um I've just kind of learned to just enjoy dating and seeing different guys and like yeah I guess it like it is difficult isn't it yeah it's difficult for anyone but it's like double as difficult yeah for anyone particularly when someone has I think preconceptions
Starting point is 00:07:26 about you coming into it which is why it's so important what you're doing yeah exactly which is why it makes it
Starting point is 00:07:31 more important to raise awareness yeah I think so I hadn't looked at it that way I was like not actually raising awareness
Starting point is 00:07:37 for like guys to date me that's such a really good idea no but it's so important because I think otherwise how else
Starting point is 00:07:42 is that perspective going to change well essentially it comes it's like the reason guys don't want to date me is because of the stigma of dating a trans girl. It's not because they're attracted to me. Plenty of them are attracted to me. I bet they are. Yeah, of course.
Starting point is 00:07:53 You're gorgeous. Yeah, I know I am. But it's not even about that. It's about them. They're scared what their friends will think or they're scared what their families will think. That's why they don't want to date me. Honey, they want to do other things with me. They just don't want to be like that with me. They just don't want to like be like that.
Starting point is 00:08:07 Yeah. They think they're going to get judged. They think, yeah, I guess if a guy is walking down the street with me, they're going to be like, well, I know she's trans.
Starting point is 00:08:13 So like everyone else in the street is going to know and everyone's going to be looking at me. So really, I guess that's why it goes back to what you're saying about just like if you break down that stigma. And that social taboo with exactly what you're doing. That's imperative to doing that. I think. Yeah. Honey pee. Honey pee. handy p right okay let's do bio of the week this is a favorite a favorite oh well is it the favorite i don't know it's a bio we have seen on a dating app in recent weeks that we've quite enjoyed this is from tom 26 so the interesting thing about this bio is you may recall a few weeks ago,
Starting point is 00:08:46 I completely slated and expressed my utter disdain for review bios. And I had never seen them before. I thought this was like, right? I thought it was really new and quite funny when I first saw it. They just copy and paste them. I see like the same one a million times. Well, exactly. But okay, this is a review one.
Starting point is 00:09:04 But there's something, I actually quite like it. Here it goes. Well, exactly. But, okay, this is a review one, but there's something, I actually quite like it. Here it goes. Here it goes. A really quite interesting guy, Louis Theroux. Better than a field of wheat, Theresa May.
Starting point is 00:09:16 Another one, DJ Khaled. Now, I have to be honest, I don't get the another one thing because I'm not really like au fait with cool music, but I presume that's some sort of musical reference. Did you get that, Charlie?
Starting point is 00:09:30 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, good. I'm not the only one that was like, Rachel, come on. I'm not really very down with the kids. But you know that song Wild Thoughts with Rihanna? Why don't you sing it to me? Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. At the beginning, DJ Khaled's like, another one.
Starting point is 00:09:46 Okay, now that is really a bit more of a bell. Yeah, a bit of a bell. To be honest with you, I tend to know songs, but I don't know who sings them or what they are. Anyway, it's become a meme. I just liked the Better Than a Field of Wheat, to be honest. Yeah, that was good. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:10:00 That doesn't do it for me, sorry. Okay, so here's the thing, though. So this brings us on to our first topic, which is how important is politics, shared values and being woke, which we'll explain shortly, in a relationship. Because when I read that bio,
Starting point is 00:10:15 I'm like, okay, he knows a bit about politics and popular culture. And I remember when Theresa May said that thing about when an interviewer asked her what was the naughtiest thing you've done. And she was like when i was a child i once ran through a field of wheat or something the internet went nuts about it obviously completely taking the piss but it was really interesting because a few weeks later i
Starting point is 00:10:33 was with my um parents at home and i like mentioned it and they they read the news every day and the field of wheat thing had completely passed them by really yeah because i think i don't know like traditional tabloids maybe didn't pick up on it, whereas the internet and social media and everyone, I think younger people are going nuts. So many memes and gifs about it. Yeah, it's fascinating. So to sort of kick this talking point off, I'll tell you a couple of stats from a study by Match last year. This found that 30.5% of 18 to 24-year-olds think politics is important in a relationship, and 17.5% avoid finding out the political opinion of their date in case it changes their feelings towards them. So my question for you girls is, would you date someone who doesn't share your political views?
Starting point is 00:11:22 Why are you looking at me? Well, I wouldn't No, ma'am! I wouldn't either. I absolutely wouldn't either. But I remember seeing an Instagram post that you did about a dating, looking for a date or for some competition or something. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, yeah.
Starting point is 00:11:35 No blondes and no Taurians allowed. Yeah, sorry, I don't do blondes or Taurians. I just cannot. I just can't. Like, if I don't... Okay, the blonde thing. I don't know. I just don't see it for blondes
Starting point is 00:11:45 But the Tory thing I could like change my mind For a really cute blonde But like Because you can get like Nice blondes There are different shades of blonde Yeah
Starting point is 00:11:52 Like a dirty blonde Maybe Like a dark blonde But just I couldn't With a Tory I just couldn't Just like Because the political
Starting point is 00:12:00 Is personal Especially like As an LGBT person, like, with the history of the Tories. I know, like, David Cameron was once passed, like, gay marriage. Not that gay marriage affects me or anything, but, like, it was kind of like... Whoever was prime minister would have done that at that time.
Starting point is 00:12:18 So I think it wasn't his, like, his kind of... It wasn't he wasn't trying to be a good person. They have a really bad track record. And just, like, even just the wasn't trying to be a good person. They have a really bad track record. And just like, like even just the fact that I'm from a council estate, the fact that I lost my best friend to Grenfell, like just a lot of like, my personal like experiences of like,
Starting point is 00:12:35 I can't detach that from the politics of it. Like, do you know what I mean? Like I can't detach the politics and the personal. So I just couldn't lie in bed with, even for a one night stand, I could not, I would just, yeah, I just couldn't. You have with even for a one-night stand I could not I would just yeah I just couldn't you have very valid reasons yeah I do yeah and you're definitely
Starting point is 00:12:50 not alone there though I wrote an article um sort of a year or so ago actually um about the role of politics in dating and I and there were plenty of people who said they they couldn't date a Tory because you know obviously there are Tories I I know Tory young people, but, you know, the general consensus is, especially in sort of a London bubble as well, it's very liberal. And a lot of people said they wouldn't date a Conservative. Someone said, and I quote, never say never, but I'd never date a Tory. I don't care if they're exactly right for me in every other way. I just couldn't go out with someone that voted for a party that has presided over police cuts nurses pay cap and the housing crisis
Starting point is 00:13:28 it's not exactly the best way of telling what someone is like but it's usually a good indication i mean it's really interesting and i remember after brexit there was um they launched a dating app called remainder which was just for people who voted Remain. I don't think it lasted very long. No. But it shows how strongly people feel about dating someone who shares their political views. Yeah, there's that Trump dating site for Trump supporters.
Starting point is 00:13:55 There are a couple of those. There are a couple of right wing dating sites. It's fascinating. But I think you're right, the political is personal every time for me. And I just think, you know, differences in relationships are good in terms of, we'll get on to this later, but things that you might want to do in your free time or whatever. I don't think that stuff matters as much. But I think your core values and what you see as important social injustices, if you don't agree on those things, how is a relationship ever going to work? if you don't agree on those things how is a relationship ever gonna work I think it also depends on how strongly you feel about you know political issues
Starting point is 00:14:30 if you're someone who is at every March at like actively a member of a party you know someone who's really into it then you're probably gonna struggle to date someone who doesn't care either is apathetic or you know votes for some a different party always like it's very into different different politics to you however if you're someone who you know is interested in following politics but doesn't have super strong views maybe you're fine i you know i have friends in relationships who i can think of one for example example, she is usually Lib Dem, he's Tory and quite strongly Tory, but they're fine. They sort of don't discuss politics too much, but it doesn't affect their relationship.
Starting point is 00:15:15 They're still very happy together. Yeah, and I think actually if you do decide that political values are something that are going to be important to you in a partner, it's imperative that you don't jump to conclusions about that other person's political beliefs if you're someone that believes really strongly in something I think you really need to be patient in terms of understanding another because like you said not everyone is as strongly and actively engaged in political views as everyone else and I think it can be quite an intimate thing for people to talk about yeah so i think it's important not to jump to conclusions not to make too harsh
Starting point is 00:15:51 judgments too quickly if you decide it's something that's important to you it's not it's not necessarily as binary as yeah left wing right wing anymore i don't know it is blurred and i think it's almost interesting because then i was just thinking in my head, like, well, because it's a belief system, essentially politics, but could you date someone from another religion? Like, I'm Catholic. I was raised Catholic. I'm quite a strong...
Starting point is 00:16:13 I don't go to church. I don't believe in, like, the institution of religion, especially as, like, an LGBT person. But I do consider myself Catholic still. But yeah, I've dated Muslims. I've dated Jewish people. Like, Jewish people, sorry, Jewish boys. So it's funny how I could date someone with a very different belief system in that sense like but like i guess it's just because then i don't know i think with religion it's
Starting point is 00:16:36 different because religion for me anyway feels more like rooted in the past it's more rooted in traditions whereas politics is an ongoing conversation and it's very much of the moment yeah and it's yeah it's harder to ignore yeah I think and also like I couldn't date like an extreme religious person like in from any religion like so I guess that's kind of where it would tie in like I couldn't date so the reason I can't I wouldn't want to date someone from a certain political party is because I'm angry at them for some of the stuff they've done. Maybe whereas like I couldn't date a religious person who was complicit with certain things that have happened with their religion doing certain things.
Starting point is 00:17:12 Like, I don't know. I mean, I'm not going to give examples, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Completely. Yeah. And so what about this whole concept of wokeness in general? So I thought everyone knew what woke was, what woke meant.
Starting point is 00:17:27 But I remember I brought this up with my flatmates a couple of months ago, and they were like, what is woke? What? I know. How old are they? 24. Oh, wow.
Starting point is 00:17:36 24 and 25. I had the same conversation with my friends at the weekend. I was talking with them about this, and they were like, what does woke mean? And they were like, oh, oh, stay woke, stay woke, because that's a line from a song in 2011 i would never know that so that's i think where the phrase maybe came from okay so they had heard of that but they didn't really use it in their kind of daily lexicon i just think it's quite interesting that for us obviously being like in the media clearly
Starting point is 00:17:59 it's something that we're very aware of yeah which is ironic given what woke means it's also like it's also something that i now wouldn't even really know how to explain, but I feel like it's such a key word. I'm like, how did we not have this word before? Wait, should we try and explain it? Essentially what it means is it's the idea of being awake to political, social issues and the world around you and the idea of being engaged with things.
Starting point is 00:18:26 Being conscious. Yeah, being conscious, being aware, being awake. Yeah, and I think it does. Would it be right to say it's usually when you're awake to these things, but also you're quite liberal usually and it's quite an inclusive view?
Starting point is 00:18:42 Yeah, I think you're right. I think it is definitely synonymous with liberal views. I don't think you can be awake and be a bigger... No, no. Because being a bigger is not being awake. Yeah, exactly. It's being blinded. It's like having a sleeping mask on that someone's put on you.
Starting point is 00:18:55 Because you're not born bigoted. So it's like taking that sleeping mask off, going back to the whole sleeping awake. And I would say, you know you know those sort of nice guy misogynists? They don't mean to be misogynist. They just don't get it. They just don't see why what
Starting point is 00:19:13 they're doing is sexist. They're not woke. Yeah. So this is what I'm interested in. Another thing in dating is how important it is that someone, if you're someone who considers yourself to be woke, that the other person is.
Starting point is 00:19:30 I remember when Cat Person came out months ago. If you missed everything about it, it's this viral story on The New Yorker, and we did an episode on it a while back, so I suggest you go and have a listen. If you missed it, you might not be woke. That's okay. Just go and listen to it then you can get woke um and so I heard that there were women around the time that came out going on dates and asking guys so what did you think of cat person sort of as a test to see what their react well a if they'd heard of it and read it,
Starting point is 00:20:05 and B, what they thought of it. It's really interesting. I had, after we did that episode, I had an ex contact me being like, oh, I really liked your episode on Cat Person. What did you think of it? And wanted to talk to me about it. Interesting.
Starting point is 00:20:18 And I thought, your voice, interesting. I just thought that was fascinating how it sparked such a debate. And personally, as someone who works in the media and is obviously very like conscious of everything going on around them if I was dating someone that didn't care or didn't didn't know about certain things that I feel passionate about and I feel so many people around me are talking about on Twitter and I'm reading all about it if they I guess not knowing is one thing not being interested is another and I think if
Starting point is 00:20:47 someone's not interested in those things it's a bit of a turnoff yeah I completely agree and no one can know about everything like I don't know everything that's going on in the Middle East I don't know everything going on in British politics right now but for me it's very important to be up-to-date or generally know you know know what's happening in the world. And then if people are just completely not interested in the news at all. Yeah, if they'd rather focus on themselves,
Starting point is 00:21:13 it's like it can be a little narcissistic. It can be a little bit superficial. It's just not a nice trait. I don't know. I think particularly now, in light of these know these huge cultural movements like Time's Up and me too to be ignorant to those kind of things isn't a good thing in my view what do you think Charlie I agree obviously I
Starting point is 00:21:37 would say feel like there's no excuse to be ignorant nowadays especially for someone from our generation we have most of us are on social media we all have the internet but most of us have smartphones like you just have no excuse like to be ignorant to what like in my opinion so obviously it's a massive turn off for me um I just yeah like I don't know like I kind of vet guys as well like you know with like asking about all the cat person like I'll like ask um yeah like similar questions just like kind of sound out or you don't even have to ask questions you can just gauge from their answers on dating apps or in person like you can kind of gauge whether they're woke um quotation marks um
Starting point is 00:22:15 yeah like and like i've ended like dates in person if i feel like i've literally walked out have you yes yeah of course like i'm sorry i not going to sit and have dinner with a racist. Like, and they might not think they're racist, but they're, to me, they're racist. And like me kind of continuing to have dinner with them would be me like sleeping with the enemy. My best friend is black. Like, even if my best friend wasn't black though,
Starting point is 00:22:40 but like, I just feel like being complicit with it is like being racist yourself. Like, and being homophobic. I couldn't date a homophobic guy i couldn't date i just couldn't date anyone who was anti anything i just couldn't so like i need you to be fully woke like otherwise i agree i don't see it for you but then i do think that the only the only contentious thing about being woke first of all if someone describes themselves as woke it's a bit true i've never described it's almost like people describe themselves like influencers exactly if you call yourself cool you're probably not cool like that's not great yeah but also i do
Starting point is 00:23:15 think i just didn't do it this is like when i once went my sister like a head like it was insulting me saying i wasn't funny or something and i went what are you talking about I'm a hoot and she went anyone who calls himself a hoot is not a hoot I was like I love that word oh honey you are a hoot thank you I am a hoot I'm not a hoot go on um I was gonna say sometimes I think this idea of being woke from a like an individual perspective can foster this culture of snobbery holier than thou yeah exactly and I think that can be really damaging for obvious reasons and I think you have to be very careful with those kind of things and be be tolerant of other people and just you know just because someone doesn't know about something doesn't mean they wouldn't care about it.
Starting point is 00:24:05 Yeah, completely. And they wouldn't be curious. Yeah, that's almost like elitist as well. Because sometimes people aren't woke because they've not had access to certain things. Like, I mean, as a council state girl, I know that firsthand, like not so much about me, but like about my friends who maybe like I went to art school and I was that's how I became woke. friends who maybe like I went to art school and I was that's how I became work maybe like but like I've got friends who didn't go to uni or whatever who on summer in summer sex would be considered not woke maybe on certain issues and I guess it's because maybe it would be elitist to be like oh if you're
Starting point is 00:24:37 not woke it's like it's like you know I'm saying completely yeah it can just be a bit pretentious yeah yeah I I agree. I think I will finish this topic with another quote from that study. Another stat, sorry. They found that 29.8% of 18 to 24 year olds believe someone is more interesting to date
Starting point is 00:24:58 if they have vested political interests. Which I think is quite interesting. I'm surprised that's not very... I was going to say it was tiny yeah do you think to be fair how what i mean 70 percent of people don't think it's more interesting but what you describe as vested political interest you know i think people probably interpret that differently yeah but anyway it's an interesting one um but we're gonna have to move on to dating disaster. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.
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Starting point is 00:26:19 So, here goes. I heard an awful story about a girl who had a disastrous encounter at uni. It may sound like it's been made up, but every single student heard about this story. So, this girl went on a date with a guy. Everything was going really well, and so she ended up going back to his in halls at the end of the night. The next morning, the guy had to leave early to go to a lecture and told the girl that she could stay at his for as long as she wanted. The guy was lucky enough to have an en suite bathroom which the girl used when she eventually got up. However, she hadn't anticipated needing to do a number
Starting point is 00:26:53 two. What's worse, the toilet wouldn't flush and she couldn't bear the thought of leaving a poo in his toilet. The girl found a black bin bag in the guy's room which she used to take the poo out of the toilet. After freshening up, the girl got bin bag in the guy's room, which she used to take the poo out of the toilet. After freshening up, the girl got dressed and left the guy's room, with his door automatically locking behind her once she was out. However, it was only then that she realised she'd accidentally left the bin bag with the poo inside on his bedroom floor and had no way of going back into his room to retrieve it. It's just so funny. Imagine that guy coming back.
Starting point is 00:27:27 He's feeling really good about himself. He's just had a great night with this girl and he finds a giant shit on his bed. He probably thought it was some kind of like... Weird like... Weird like, fuck you, that sex was awful kind of thing. Here's a giant poo. Here's a turd. Here's a giant poo. Here's a turd.
Starting point is 00:27:46 Here's a turd, because he's a turd in bed. It's just like that story. You know that? Yeah, that story from the couple in Bristol where the woman couldn't flush her poo at her dates and tried to put it out the window. She was a little more creative. Yeah, she then got stuck herself,
Starting point is 00:28:02 which is absolutely lol. But we love that story so thank you for sending it in it was most um amusing and i was like how do i describe this yes i think amusing is the word yeah and i really feel for that girl yeah but hey ho i don't actually know how things worked out but hopefully i don't know who knows what she did maybe she just transferred to a different uni and the country and spoke to him again maybe she killed herself guys we should laugh about that
Starting point is 00:28:28 also that dickhead boy for like telling everyone how mean oh yeah that must have been how it ended that's not nice that's clearly how it ended he went and told all his friends
Starting point is 00:28:38 yeah no that's not nice well hopefully she wasn't named maybe I don't know you've just made fun of her on your podcast. If she hears it, she's definitely going to kill herself.
Starting point is 00:28:48 The girl from the other story remained anonymous as well, didn't she? The girl from the other poo story. He went on national news. I like that people are telling these stories, though. Because, A, I'm sorry, girls poo. But isn't it just so like it just shows how girls
Starting point is 00:29:03 are just made to feel like they were not supposed to poo. Like, it's like, you have to hide your poo. Do you think if that was the girls room, the boy would have just been like, sorry, I couldn't flush your chain. And like, told her like, it's ridiculous. Not accepting that girls poo is not very woke. No. Literally that. We poo. That is against my political beliefs.
Starting point is 00:29:19 Me too. Thank you very much. I'm adding that on my list, like no blondes, no Tories and no boys you can't accept that we poo very important oh funny do you know what we should
Starting point is 00:29:30 discuss on another podcast like at what point in a relationship you sort of do all those little things like fart in front of your boyfriend oh I would never I would never
Starting point is 00:29:38 I'm sorry I know I've just said all this right now about like girls poo but I would like never poo in front of my boyfriend never fart in front of my boyfriend I just couldn't
Starting point is 00:29:46 yeah I don't think I would either have you not seen Sex and the City when she did it did you not like her less than like a baby
Starting point is 00:29:50 it's so awkward she fucked Harry farts with Big in bed and she just can't she can't cope her face just goes white and then Big
Starting point is 00:29:57 just laughs at her and it's so awkward and he keeps bringing it up like oh a boy farted with me really like after we were lying there.
Starting point is 00:30:07 I just ignored it. I thought, well, maybe I laughed. I can't remember. Good times. No. See, like, I have that rule for myself. I also would, like, force it on my boyfriend. I'd be like, you can never fart in front of me.
Starting point is 00:30:15 Like, I don't like that sort of thing. No. Burping. Yeah. Oh, I don't like burping. I feel like you have to laugh in that situation, though, because otherwise it's just so painfully awkward. Yeah, because you're both like, oh, we both just heard that.
Starting point is 00:30:24 Oh, we're not going to say anything about it. Okay. No, you have to. Yeah, buy mistakes, okay. But don't be, you know. Don't do it on purpose. It's not very sexy.
Starting point is 00:30:35 Right. So let's talk about how important it is to have things in common with someone you're dating generally. I find this so interesting because everyone has different views on it. A lot of people argue opposites attract. Other people, my mum has always said to me,
Starting point is 00:30:52 you've got to find someone who, the more you have in common with your partner, the better. And I don't know which is right. I think maybe there is an element to both. But I think I'm actually potentially of the school of thought that having some similar interest is a very good thing and then having things that you can you can sort of teach your partner a bit about and expand their horizons also a good thing I have a friend who stopped seeing a guy she was dating because she's so into music and theater and art he had absolutely zero interest in that and
Starting point is 00:31:29 that was sort of wasn't the problem but it was the fact that he had no interest in learning about it or like like they had no interest in finding out you know what she liked about these things yeah I think you have to break it down a bit because it's not like you're ever going to have, you know, hour-long conversations about the kind of bands that you like, really, you know, and the kind of films that you like and the kind of TV shows that you watch and the kind of books that you read.
Starting point is 00:31:55 It's great if you have those things in common, but surely it would get a bit boring if you're both just kind of spurting the same things at one another. I think, personally, it's good to have differences in those areas, but I think when it comes down to how you spend your time together, and like you said, things like going to the theatre, if one person likes theatre, or going to watch a football game,
Starting point is 00:32:16 or going to a certain exhibition, if you don't want to do those things the same, it's not really going to work, because how are you going to spend your time together? You can't just be at each other's houses the whole time. Yeah. I very much feel like I need someone who's interested in food and doesn't just eat to stay alive
Starting point is 00:32:38 because I want to talk about food a lot. I want to eat a lot of food. I want someone who is excited to try new restaurants and will make a pilgrimage across London to go to some trendy new food place it's just open would you say that's your biggest thing it's definitely one of the big one yeah it's definitely up there but another one yeah right food is food is the one very low on my scale just so funny because I was telling I was telling you about this date with this guy here I've now it
Starting point is 00:33:02 seems to have fizzled fuck Fuckboy. The fuckboy. Well, I'm not 100% sure, but probably he is. Just as a reference point, fuckboy. Okay, okay. We think he might be, sadly. Anyway, I think I was saying to Libby after the second date or something like,
Starting point is 00:33:18 we had this chat about avocado for like half an hour or something and I was like, oh my God, he's amazing. He talks, he loves avocado like me. And I was, I don't know, I kept bringing up that we were talking about food a lot and you were like, I literally never talk about food on dates.
Starting point is 00:33:30 I talk about food on dates all the time. Well, that's what I do on dates. It's always like food centered. This is where I'm going wrong. I could not care less about what a person eats. I, for me. Because you're a vegan. Vegan.
Starting point is 00:33:43 So like accusing. Maybe, maybe. vegan so like accusing um maybe maybe but I think um my equivalent would probably be music and not necessarily having the same taste in music I I'm I have a real passion for all sorts of different genres of music my the thing I really enjoy doing and maybe talking about and I think my key like activity to do with someone that I'm dating would be going to gigs and going to see live music yes I'm so not really interested in that at all see that's that's a big one for me and I don't really care who I'm seeing necessarily because I love it I like appreciate pretty much all music but going to gigs and seeing live shows that's like the best thing for me. I love that so much. I've been going to Glastonbury for the last like,
Starting point is 00:34:27 you know, eight years and it's always my happiest time. Yeah, I literally have no interest in that. Me too. We could never date each other. We'd never work. I'd be like, so what are we going to eat? All the time.
Starting point is 00:34:40 Charlie, what about you? What's important for you interest-wise? See, the thing is, it's like my interests, I'm never going gonna find a guy and I wouldn't want to find a guy who's like interested in things I'm interested in because like I'd be turned off like I'm interested in very like feminine things and I like very masculine guys like it's not about like um being like a lad or I really don't like lads it's not about that but it's about like um I just don't like I would I'm I love I don't know I love like beauty and like RuPaul's Drag I love, I don't know. I love, like, beauty and, like, RuPaul's Drag Race. And, like, I don't know, like, Britney Spears.
Starting point is 00:35:09 I don't want my boyfriend to be like, oh, my God, yes, let's watch Drag Queen. I'm like, no, I want you to, like, watch it with me to be a good boyfriend. Maybe sometimes, like, but I don't want you to be, like, watching it when I'm not there. Like, because you just are so obsessed with Drag Queen. Like, it just would be a turn off to me. Like, I don't want my boyfriend to like love watching youtube beauty tutorials like it just gets boring if someone just wants to that's what your friends are for you have your friends to do your girly or that i'm being very binary and basic right now but you bet you have
Starting point is 00:35:38 your friends do your the things that you like and then you the boyfriend does it with his friends and then you come together and compromise on certain things like you go to i wouldn't mind going to a football match even though i hate football yeah you want someone to introduce you to new experiences and new things that's you know that's what makes dating exciting yeah otherwise it just gets a bit dull and monotonous it's just interesting um i found that it does change though so over the past sort of six to nine months i have got like way more into the gym than I used to be because I discovered I love lifting weights I love doing weights I am a hashtag girl who lifts yes um and I I love it so much and I you know this is still quite a new thing for me but now it's quite important to me
Starting point is 00:36:23 that someone I'm dating or someone you know who is a potential boyfriend or romantic partner is also interested in fitness and it needn't be gym but like some sort of exercise and because that's really important to me actually now yeah sort of getting fitter and staying healthy and I would actually agree with that I think a vested interest in health but not necessarily not necessarily going to the gym I agree with that. I think a vested interest in health. I'm on the other side. Not necessarily going to the gym, I agree with you, but engaging in some sort of exercise, whether it's playing tennis, playing football, just something. Because I like to spend a lot of time outdoors. I love to exercise. That's also another thing that's important for me. So someone that is a bit slovenly about that kind of stuff probably wouldn't be very attractive to
Starting point is 00:37:05 me yeah i'd be just like get up that's what my life is basically that i have not done exercise since year nine p.e with my like roles sitting down now i just have no desire i've never been to a gym i don't do any i like and i'm boys all the time i like that like what you like so i'm always on the other side and the same with the vegan thing, like I always seem to draw vegan guys to me, and they're like kind of very judgy, like oh, like.
Starting point is 00:37:30 Oh no, that's the worst, I'm not a judgy vegan, I'd like to put that out there. I'm vegetarian, so I'm not even that bad, I'm like, I just,
Starting point is 00:37:35 I like cheese, I can't help it. I love cheese. But like, yeah, like the fitness guys are very much like, judge me for not being fit, like the vegan,
Starting point is 00:37:42 like the boys who, do you know what I mean? And I'm like oh sorry or like music snobs are a big thing as well i know this i've just said everything about you sorry no no no you're right that actually goes back to what i said because even though so the music thing for me it's more about the experience of watching music but you're not judging people for their taste no and that is and i've been judged for my taste before as well and it's horrible my tastes are so basic me Me too. But to have any sense
Starting point is 00:38:05 of superiority over that, over your, you know, whether you're really into indie films or you're really into like this really alternative band that no one's ever heard of, to then have an element
Starting point is 00:38:14 of snobbery about it and be like, oh well, I'm not into you because you don't like them. Yeah. It's just, I think you have to be open-minded
Starting point is 00:38:19 in everything. Another thing, sort of related to interest and if opposites or having the same thing is good is when it comes to careers, I don't know whether it's sort of best for me to date someone in an industry similar to what I work in because then they understand my world and what I'm doing.
Starting point is 00:38:35 Or if it's better to date someone who works in like, I don't know, finance or as a lawyer or I'm just, I don't know, anything. The dream. Finance is not the dream. That is the dream. No. Baby, you can do my tax return. I don't know, anything. The dream. Finance is not the dream. That is the dream. No. Baby, you can do my tax return. I'll do something for you. I mean.
Starting point is 00:38:49 That's how it works, baby. I mean, I've dated some finance guys. Send them my way. All right. I'll send them over. I'll send them over. This might be discrimination, but I'm not sure I fancy finance guys. You can't say you don't fancy all finance guys.
Starting point is 00:39:03 No, but there's an element of their job, the ones that I have dated, their hours are incredibly antisocial. Oh, really? Working very, very late into the night. And so it can be quite difficult
Starting point is 00:39:15 to maintain a relationship with someone that has those. And it's the same in law. Like my best friend's a lawyer. She doesn't get out of work till 9.30 some nights. Oh, my Lord. And it's really hard.
Starting point is 00:39:24 She only sees her boyfriend at the weekends, which is but that's not great that's not going to work for everyone um and i think i don't know does your does how much does your career reflect your values that becomes another element depends depends if someone's in the finance industry because i do know people who work in finance and i don't know i'm i'm saying finance but there are various industries that you know are very well paid but it's horrible hours and actually if if these people are doing this and they hate their jobs then that I have an issue with I'm like you're just doing it for the money and I think I don't know it says a lot about you if you're willing to do something you hate just for money like I personally believe it's life's too short it shows about their value it's
Starting point is 00:40:04 like your money is the most important thing exactly i think that's the thing i have a problem with finance because i like people that i like people that work in something they're passionate about and if you work in finance how passionate can you be about money and how attractive is that as a quality the reason i'm drawn to him is not because of like the money i'm not even as a counselor i would love to find like a rich man for myself and pay for all my surgery but for me it's about like the skills i'm very strategic and that like i want to be like self-sufficient and like be able to like i i don't know i am i don't know useless i would like a like looking at my mom my dad like my dad is very good like handiwork and like my mom would struggle on her own like my
Starting point is 00:40:39 dad's like a like a handyman like a builder so he our house is amazing and stuff like that would be a really nice skill to i can't do it so i'd love a a man like it's not about dating guys like that but like my future like a dream hubby is like someone who i know can do maths because i'm crap at maths and it's like a graphic can do photoshop so you can like do all my like like graphic stuff and like do money and like do i'm saying and like buildy stuff and catch spiders like it's about we should be learning to do those things no no let me be basic and binary please i've waited 21 years to be a basic like oh let me let me live my best life me and my flatmate the other night we had like all basically all the bulbs had gone in our house they were going one by one and we didn't know it was like if they're like these weird light bulbs
Starting point is 00:41:23 and we didn't know how to change them. So we just put it off and put it off and put it off until there was literally one light left in the whole flat and we were like, we need to tackle this.
Starting point is 00:41:31 And we did it! Well done. We changed all the light bulbs. Good for you. Thank you. It was actually an achievement because they were difficult light bulbs. I don't know how to change light bulbs.
Starting point is 00:41:40 A regular one I can do but they were quite weird but now we know because we're independent women. And I also, you know, can squish spiders sometimes. And yes, I'm sorry I squished them. Oh, no, I'm not. Anyway, we've got slightly off topic.
Starting point is 00:41:52 Says the girl who didn't sleep because there was a mouse in her room the other day. Yeah, well, that's London, isn't it? Good times. Yeah, lol. Anyway, time for dating dilemma. Yeah, let's finish up with that, shall we? This is a juicy one. Right.
Starting point is 00:42:04 I'm looking for some advice on a relationship that's starting to get serious. I'm 23 now and I've been seeing my girlfriend for several months. She's great for me and although things started casual, we're rapidly becoming closer. This will be the first really serious relationship I've had with anyone and my first with another girl. My problem is broaching something with her from my past. When I was at university, I did some fetish modelling for an adult website. Essentially photo shoots of me being spanked by older guys. There was nudity involved, but it wasn't very explicit.
Starting point is 00:42:33 However, these photos are out there now and forever. I'm cool with that, I'm not ashamed about it, and I knew what I was getting into at the time. But now things are getting serious, I want to know how I should broach it with my girlfriend. There's no way I want her finding out from any other source than me, and it seems unlikely that she'd happen across them, but I'd rather be straight with her. But how do I bring it up? It also raises the questions of some of my non-vanilla interests. We have a fairly regular sex life, and my fetish leanings have never really come up. That's fine, but I guess coming clean about my modeling will bring them into the discussion as well I'm really struggling to see an obvious way to get this out in the open and I'm a little
Starting point is 00:43:09 bit scared of my girlfriend's reaction that is quite the dilemma mmm very Fifty Shades of Grey esque it's just it's it's I think it is quite an unusual situation to be in. Very. Which is probably why she's so nervous about broaching the subject. However, if they've been seeing each other for several months, you'd like to think they're comfortable enough with each other. And I think she just needs to say it. She just needs to tell her. Do it in... You know know you don't want to blow it out of proportion I think and and try and make the her partner feel that it's a massive deal
Starting point is 00:43:55 but just sort of I think tell her quite calmly and say you know I just wanted you to know and she was going to have to have that conversation about, you know, in terms of non-vanilla sex interests. That was going to come up anyway. Yeah. You know, that's inevitable. So this, in a way, is probably a good route into that discussion. And it opens those doors.
Starting point is 00:44:19 You have to be, you know, if this is something that you want in your relationship in the long term and you want in your relationship in the long term and you want it to work you have to be totally honest about your preferences in the bedroom and beyond yeah hundred percent and I think you know the the best way if you do have like as she says non vanilla interests then you've just got to be open about it haven't you and not be ashamed yeah don't be ashamed I think it's a I think it's unfortunate to feel stigmatised, particularly with someone who is your girlfriend,
Starting point is 00:44:50 like, you know, loves you and cares about you. You should feel, you should feel just like, that you can legitimately be honest and authentic with who you really are. And this is a key part of that, I think. Yeah, I think I would probably, quite similarly, like, I wouldn't want to blow it because it's not a big thing you haven't I don't know even if you've done like a sex tape
Starting point is 00:45:10 that's not that like do I mean it's that we've all had sex we've all done I'm sure people she just had it on on camera basically so it's really not that big a deal um I think I'd probably approach with humor to like because I think if you like sit them down, I have something to tell you. It's going to make it seem like you've done something wrong. You have done nothing wrong. You have nothing to apologise for. Nothing to be ashamed of. You just sit them down.
Starting point is 00:45:31 I'd almost like, I wouldn't even sit them down. I'd just bring up Randy. I'd like, we're drunk one time, having a good time. I did this one thing. I'd just make it like a laughing thing. Be like, it was funny. It was for work. I needed some money.
Starting point is 00:45:43 It was stupid. I can't believe I did that. Oh my God. Lol. And then it's out there and it's done. And like, who cares? We've all, like, what do they think? They're virgins?
Starting point is 00:45:50 Like, who cares? Like, we've all had sex. Just like someone did it on camera, like, or did something on camera. Who cares? I think that's exactly the way to do it. Well, there you go. I feel like this is so easy for me because I'm sorry. I have to, like, come out as being trans is a lot bigger than having, oh, I did like a sexy photo shoot once.
Starting point is 00:46:06 Yeah, very true. Yeah, so I thought this is easy peasy. You're good. Don't worry about it, babes. Just, yeah, just have a, just like. And if the girlfriend does sort of freak out and say, oh, no, then it's not the right person for you, is it? Yeah, I think if you're like, if you put like your cards out on the table,
Starting point is 00:46:21 like you can't, and this, I'm not telling you to post them on Instagram, but like if you're very proud about everything then people can't shame you like that's why with me i'm always very like upfront about being trans and stuff like it's like my a lot of my friends who are trans girls i don't know like put like they're like i don't know like raunchy photos because then like you can't be shamed about them like almost like so i'm not telling you to put them up but i'm just saying that's another if you just lay all your cards out at the start and be like oh yeah i'm like I like I don't know being sexy then it's like no one's going to find you out
Starting point is 00:46:48 and be like you're not the nice Christian virgin that I thought you were who like yeah I like fetish so what like I don't but I'm just saying if you're not ashamed of something people can't shame you for it yeah exactly I think if you laugh at yourself first
Starting point is 00:47:04 no one else can laugh at you. Love it. I think that's a nice note to end on, guys. Thank you so much for listening, everyone. It goes so quickly. It's such a shame. But that is it for today, sadly. So please do subscribe to Millennial Love.
Starting point is 00:47:18 Please give us a rating and review us on iTunes or wherever else you listen to your podcast because that means the world to us. I know it just takes a second of your day and it also helps other people discover the podcast. And please keep sending in your dating disasters and dilemmas. We love reading them and talking about them. And if you want to send one in, it will obviously be kept anonymous.
Starting point is 00:47:38 You can email us at millennial.love at independent.co.uk or you can tweet us at Rachel underscore underscore hosie and olivia petter one you can also contact us by joining our facebook group and this is where we sort of discuss issues from the podcast news from the dating world and ask you guys for your thoughts on issues for the podcast and we would love to hear any bits of feedback you have as well so to join you just have to go to facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash millennial dot love so that's it for this week thanks so much guys thank you charlie so much for having me guys thank you it's been so much fun you've offered so much wisdom i'll send you an invoice and charlie you are doing a panel event aren't
Starting point is 00:48:24 you for international women's day i am and i think it's a sort of event that you know the woke boys And Charlie, you are doing a panel event, aren't you? Yes. For International Women's Day. I am. And I think it's a sort of event that, you know, the woke boys, we're telling our boys they need to be woke. This is the sort of thing they should be coming to because it's a panel of women for International Women's Day. Some amazing women like Gemma Kearney. Amazing.
Starting point is 00:48:37 And other just amazing boss women basically discussing like how to push forward as women. And basically, yes, for Seven seven dolls for international women's day i'm going to post about on my social so check it out it's going to be in the like evening standard tomorrow and stuff and there'll be a you can find out the details online yeah it should be really good though yeah i think it sounds like a fab event thank you so much for listening everyone thank you charlie and we'll see you guys next week it was the season of chaos and all through the house not one person was stressing holla differently this year with doordash don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't.
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