Love Lives - #34 Mental health in relationships and dating with Bryony Gordon

Episode Date: May 18, 2018

It's Mental Health Awareness Week and we are thrilled to be joined by journalist, author and mental health campaigner Bryony Gordon, who's written extensively both about her dating past and her mental health.This week, Bryony, Rachel and Olivia open up about their own experiences with mental health and how its affected their relationships. We share our top tips for telling a new partner you're struggling with a mental health issue - and how to react and help someone who opens up to you.Follow us on our new Instagram account to stay up-to-date! https://www.instagram.com/millennial_love/Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, it's Mitch from SideNote Podcast, and I'm here to tell you about the new Google Pixel 9 powered by Gemini. Anyone who knows me knows the Pixel has always been my favorite out of all the phones I've ever had. Now, with Gemini built in, it's basically my personal AI assistant. Since I'm truly terrible at keeping up with emails, I use Gemini to give me summaries of my inbox, which is a lifesaver. And if I'm feeling stuck creatively, I just ask Gemini for help and bam, instant inspiration. You can learn more about Google Pixel 9 at store.google.com. Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, the independent lifestyle desk's weekly podcast on love, dating, and relationships. Hosted by me, Rachel Hosey, Assistant Lifestyle Editor.

And me, Olivia Petter, Lifestyle Writer. Dating today is a whole new world. With dating apps, millennials are finding it harder to meet people than ever before. And even when we do, who's to say we won't be ghosted? So that's why we decided to launch Millennial Love as two long-time singletons in their 20s talking candidly about all of the things we're doing, but not always willing to admit. This week, we are absolutely thrilled to welcome journalist, author and mental health campaigner Bryony Gordon.

Hello. Hi Bryony. Hi Rachel. Hi Livia. Welcome. I've not done any dating this week. That's okay. You're married.

But that's probably okay because I'm married. But it took a long time to get to the stage where someone was happy to marry me. I'm really intrigued. Sorry, I'm going to just start withering away here. But I'm really intrigued because I just missed Tinder by like six months or something. Oh, you're lucky.

I'm so lucky. But I met my husband at work. That was where everyone I ever went out with, I worked with. I literally exhausted the available males at the Telegraph where I work. Did that not cause you quite a lot of problems though? I feel like getting involved with work people sometimes can make life... It's fine when you're involved, but when you're no longer involved and you still work together listen youngsters

that was how us old people had to date we had to we had to we had to rely on the people we just happened to meet in real life

sometimes we had to go to pubs and just like pick people up at bars terrifying can you imagine terrifying I mean like the amount of booze

and drugs you had to take to date. This is why millennials don't drink. And I'm like, well, they don't have to drink because they can just do it online and me. An interesting theory, actually. It's my theory. I blame my dating for my drinking and drug taking. Okay, so for anyone who hasn't hasn't already read it you should totally read brian's first book the wrong knickers which when did that come out was about five years

ago or so um yeah yeah but 2000 oh gosh when did it two four years ago it came out four years ago it doesn't seem that look that like that long ago but i know the thing is yeah i i definitely read that as soon as it came out. And so I was 21. And I remember I fully devoured it because it's all just about your 20s really, isn't it? Yeah. And the rather exciting escapades you got up to. Yeah. I was really like picking up a colleague in an STI clinic.

Yeah. Yeah. When I was sick of picking them up in the actual office. Sure. Yeah. I loved that. But no, I read that in the actual office. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved that. But no, I read that book and was fully just like, oh my God, I'm in my 20s, bring it!

But I enjoyed it. I loved it. And then your second book was Mad Girl, which came out a couple of years ago? Two years ago, yeah. Two years ago, which is so different, but so brilliant. So Mad Girl is all about your mental health journey isn't it yeah amazing um and that's actually we're sort of gonna weave these things together today um to talk about mental health in dating and relationships it is mental health awareness

week as well guys so it is but i feel like it's really interesting I feel you know even just a year ago or two years ago mental health awareness week had to be such a big thing and now I feel it's it's in a really great way it doesn't have to be such a big thing because kind of every week is yeah so true like so much has changed since in this just a very short time I've been accidentally working in the mental health world it sort of blows me away yeah so when did you first sort of open up about your struggles with mental health so I had so I had so I wrote The Wrong Knickers um when I after I had my daughter and it was all sort of, yeah, it was about my crazy twenties. And you know, the backdrop to that was,

was kind of crippling obsessive compulsive disorder and depression and alcoholism and addiction really. But I, I couldn't, I couldn't write about any of those. I was, I was, I felt, I felt more able to write about picking up a guy in an STI clinic or a man snorting cocaine off my boobs than I did about my mental health. You know, that was, and that was that recently, you know. It says a lot about the times we live in. It does.

And then I had a sort of a bit of a breakdown after the book came out. And I was like, enough, enough is enough. I can't, I can't let my daughter grow up in a world where this has to be suffered in silence. So I wrote about it in my column in the Telegraph. And it was like the floodgates opened. And this must have been January 2015. And it sort of started, and my publishers were like, you've got to write about this.

So I wrote Mad Girl. And it's become this sort of accidental job, really, but an amazing one. Like, I can't complain, you know. And I do, I run something called Mental Health Mates, which is a group for people to be able to go and walk and talk without fear of judgment. And, you know, I do a mental health podcast. Mad World. Mad World. And people come on and talk about their mental health.

And we've had Prince Harry. Very topical. When this comes out, it'll be day before the wedding. Will it? Oh, I love a good wedding. Are you not invited? No. I love the way, like, I mean, if I had to invite, like, everyone I ever worked with to my wedding.

No, I'm not. I'm not invited. And I wasn't expecting to be invited. And then everyone asked me if I'd been invited. And then I was like invited and I wasn't expecting to be invited and then everyone asked me if I've been invited and I was like should I be expected should I be feeling like I've been ghosted by Harry and Meghan you know like no I haven't been invited and that's totally fine I think they're adorable and they're lovely and you know I have um the occasional contact with them but really not enough to warrant fair enough an invitation fair enough and quickly you've also got a third book coming out i think is it next week eat drink run

yeah yeah the 31st of may eat drink run week after so that is all about how that's all about mental health and running yeah um it's a running book that's not about running really because i loved that i mean it's the same with all three of your books I think obviously even though the subject matter of the wrong knickers is quite different in terms of the topic it covers obviously there's no mention of your mental health in that book but the tone of that book is very similar to the tone of mad girl and eat drink run it's still your very witty funny authentic voice yeah and I think reading about mental health in that context makes it so relatable and so you just you instantly just go into your world and it makes it so engaging and really funny mad girl is still I

still found it really funny and eat drink run as well I think the thing is is that I was you know like I wanted to present something that shows you that that that it's possible to to get better from these things and something that was upbeat and inspired people and I assumed that if someone was reading mad girl they were probably feeling a bit low and I didn't want them to finish it feeling even lower and it's the same with eat drink run you know eat drink run is a book about how I used running to help my mental health and I basically ended up going from being a sort of 16 and a half stone girl woman girl woman who couldn't run for a bus to um someone who was slightly weighed slightly less although like 14 and a half stone we're not talking like like slim jim but and ended up running the London Marathon for Heads Together

and then also interviewing Prince Harry about his mental health. And it's sort of a book about doing the thing you think you can't. So it's sort of like you could read it and apply it to anything, to breaking free from the dating horror, you know, breaking free from social media, to learning another language, to climbing Everest. You know, it's basically saying that we all put such limitations on ourselves, you know, and we think that we can't do things. And actually, and we think that, you know, I very much thought if I went out running, people would laugh at me.

Like, dude, the world does not revolve around you. Do you know what I mean? Like, no one cares. Literally no one cares. Everyone's just out there trying to do the best they can and and it's you know it's sort of saying that the only limitations really that exist in our lives have been put there by ourselves by our own heads and um so I kind of wanted to write a book that inspired people if not to run a marathon to run a mile and if not a mile to do something completely you know just to do that thing that we're scared of because doing the thing that you think you can't is when you do it is like the most empowering thing in the world

and that's relatable to everyone totally there was one line in the book I actually sent it to Rachel when I read it because I was having a really shitty day for various reasons mostly boy stuff to be honest and you know I'm not trying to run a marathon I hear you yeah so there was one like that yeah sorry I just want to read I just want to quote you because it was so so you said firstly think not of what you aren't but what you are secondly remember that one day things could happen to you that you wouldn't be able to believe right now the most astonishing amazing things trust me when I say that all you have to do is hold on yeah I think that's the most amazing thing I've ever read in terms of advice when you're having a shit time and you feel like

so so small yeah just saying hold on yeah because that's because if I knew like I think one of the you know these things do pass and I totally get that you know like the with the with boy stuff you know and people belittle it you know people are like i remember part of the reason i wrote the wrong knickers was because i was i felt i felt bad that i didn't have a boyfriend throughout my 20s and early 30s and then i felt bad i felt bad for feeling bad that i didn't have a boyfriend like i was like oh I'm not being a good feminist. Yeah. Why am I caring about this stuff?

But of course people care about these things because, you know, that is why the human race is so successful as a species. It's because we reproduce and we meet and we, you know, and and so and so it's a really there was a really normal things to be anxious about. And it is really hard dating like it's really extraordinarily hard because it is a constant roller coaster of of you know of of being valid you know almost kind of being am I good enough am I this am I that am I is this person gonna like me and even if I don't like this person why are they not you know I this was these were certainly the things going around my head you know I'm not even interested in this person so why am I bothered that they're not interested in me?

And it was all about sort of, you know, it just feeds so dreadfully into your self-esteem. And of course, you know, and then there's that thing where people go, you know, no one's going to love you until you love yourself. And you're like, all right, I don't know if I'm allowed to swear on this. Yeah, you are. I'm like, thanks for that. That's fucking like the most unhelpful thing. But it is,ful thing but it is you know it is true and but I you know I didn't love myself when I met my husband um I just met

someone who who I you know my who was kind and treated me well and I and I realized that that was a you know my whole kind of goal my my whole sort of what I wanted from life and from someone changed my parameters. But it is really hard. It's really hard. And it's that constant, like, living, walking on eggshells and will they call? And, you know, and it is fun, you know, don't get me wrong. But I wouldn't want to go back there. And it was, it's really, it's tough, you know,

and it certainly contributed to my sense of self-worth and my mental health in my 20s and early 30s. You know, I was, I was, I was crazy. It was a real part, you know, I drank too much. I mean, I'm sober now, but I certainly wasn't, you know, I drank, I'm a recovering alcoholic and drug addict, which sounds really extreme when you say it. But it's, you know, it's not, you know, I just had to, I felt that the norm, certainly for my generation, and I'm 37, so I'm not that much older than you. But, you know, it was, you know, you go out, you get drunk and you sort of fall into bed and then will it work the next day i don't

know but you know we'll just give it a go and drink a load of booze in the process it's not really a great recipe for good mental health is it guys perhaps not the greatest no i completely know what you mean and like we've done we've done we've talked about sort of the role of alcohol and dating as well because still so many of my first dates it's like okay first dates just mean let's go and get drunk together oh my god like totes like i was i think i was drunk for like i don't know the first four years of my relationship with my husband we've only been together seven years oh it's all good it's all good all right guys before we get into the nitty-gritty of our discussion,

Libby, do you want to fill us in with what's going on with you? Yeah, so I read a really interesting interview. I don't know if you saw this in Sunday Times Style. Dolly Alderton, who we've had on this podcast. The cat person. Yes, she interviewed the author of Cat Person, Christian Rupinian. I think that's how you say her name. You've also done an episode on Cat Person, haven't we?

Yes, we have. And it was a really interesting interview I mean obviously you know Kristen is incredibly insightful as you would expect from her short story and there's one line that I'll quote in Dolly's interview which she says um which Kristen says most relationships are a large proportion in our heads and invented and that's something we've spoken about before, like how you kind of fantasize so much, particularly when you start a new relationship or start seeing someone for the first time. It becomes this weird like game in your head

where you're just constantly thinking about them. But I don't know if I'm the only one that does this, but you know, you make up things. You just completely, you don't know if I'm the only one that does this but you know you make up things you just completely you don't just idealise you just completely construct false realities in your head about that person who they are and who they may or may not be to you

you kind of want them to be as well yeah but it is so toxic because it just ends up inevitably leading to disappointment and I have to stop myself from doing it but it's really hard like if ever I'm alone for too long which you know has happened quite a lot over the last few weeks you just start spiraling and it just becomes a deeper deeper like descent into you know all of these awful things going on in

your head and then you start doubting yourself anyway I've had a pretty rough few days so maybe that's why but reading that, it was just really interesting. She's so right. But, you know, like fantasy is a really good, it's another way that we kind of, it's another way, it's another way we get ourselves high and we change the way we feel. You know, so it's as, you were right when you said it's toxic. It's as toxic as, God, I don't want to sound like some boring banging on,

but, you know, it can be as toxic as drinking to excess and't want to sound like some boring banging on but you know it is it can be as toxic as drinking to excess and taking coke and all of the rest you know it's all about changing the way you feel and I'm certainly guilty I mean like I would literally have met someone for about five minutes and in my head we were married we were living in you know what I mean we were living in New York together we had five children we had a stoop we had it you know like fucking hell it's just exhausting i know it's so exhausting i don't know why we do it to ourselves but take comfort in the fact that most people probably do it yeah we all do it i love that i love that people are honest about this shit now oh god yeah you have to be because they weren't 10 years ago like i walked

around thinking am i the only person like also when I was growing up, when I was growing up, I sound like I'm sort of 87. But when I was, like, I remember it was all about the rules and playing hard to get and being cool. And I was like, oh, I'm such a twat. Why can't I play cool? Why can't I play it by the rules? And I really love how honest and real people are. You know, you just spoke about Dolly, who I really love how honest and real people are.

You know, you just spoke about Dolly, who I totally love and, you know, have asked to marry several times. She's like, you're already married, Briony, and I'm not that into you. But like, it's, you know, like I love that that book exists now because when The Wrong Knickers came out and I said that I went on Dolly's podcast

and I, you know, it was seen as a kind of like oh i remember the daily mail doing a piece um about you know does this woman have no shame and sort of slamming me and catelyn moran and lily allen and it was like it was still seen as a kind of bad thing and now you know now i love that there is a sort, there is a space for all different female voices saying all sorts of different things. And, you know, that book that Dolly's written, Everything I Know About Love,

is just so honest. Yeah. You know, it isn't, you know, she doesn't try and present herself as the cool girl. But in doing that, she is the coolest girl. She's like the coolest girl. Completely.

Everyone wants to be her best friend do they is that the thing I think so all my friends are like oh my god I'm reading everything I know about love oh my god it's speaking to my soul and I'm like yeah I know I told you this I told you this ages ago but you know everyone gets there in their own time I love it everyone wants to be her best friend and I'm like marrying her

there you go I'm like fancy we'd have you know we'd live in a nice apartment. And I'm like, I don't know what I'm going to do with my five-year-old child and my husband. They can come too. They can live with us. Be a commune. Yeah. Dolly, I'm sorry if I sound like a stalker.

Rachel, what have you been doing this week? Oh, so I went on that date. Bryony, let me catch you up very briefly. So there was this guy that I was talking to on Bumble ages ago, and we were going to go out, and then I cancelled the date for one reason or another. And then I basically said, I was like, do you know what, I'm really sorry,

I'm actually like, I think I'm too busy to date right now, which was what I thought. And then a month later, he got in touch being like, hey, Rachel, I mean, everyone's busy, so I think we should actually just go on a date and I was like okay fair play to you and my Friday evening plans

had just been cancelled so I was like okay I can do Friday so we went out on Friday and had a rather nice time but then he's asked me out on the second date and I just

I don't have a free evening till mid-June so thing is though if you liked him you would have a free evening tonight you knowJune. Thing is though, if you liked him, you would have a free evening tonight. You know what I mean? Yeah, you wouldn't be sitting here right now. That chair would be empty.

Yeah, I know, but ditching the podcast. I love that you don't have a free evening till mid-June. Rachel is so busy. I don't understand why she does it. I don't have a free evening until tonight. I'm going away for a week, though. Oh, yeah. So that does, you know...

Yeah, but you, Rachel, you are always jam-packed. Even if you... I, like, I, you know, sit next to you every day. If I try and make plans with her, it's like, well, I'm free in about three weeks' time. Rachel once came to my house and got drunk with me when I was still drinking. It was fun.

Yeah. Well, that's, yeah. It sounds like you're just not that into him. Yeah, I think, I'm really sorry if you're listening, man who I will not be named. But hang on, hang on though. Let me just ask you this. Okay.

Are you not interested in him because he is interested in you? Well, this is always the struggle isn't it this is what always happens to me i the ones that are actually into me i'm just like yeah they're fine but yeah and then obviously the ones that don't seem to be into me i really love and that's the paradox is that paradox i don't know what it is um it's fucking annoying that's exactly what it is and i'm like when will i grow out of this when will i not be like this never okay how old are you 25 i mean you know have some fun with it don't don't worry oh my god i was like when did i get

like i didn't oh no i mean it was just chaos I didn't meet my husband until I was 31 and then we literally had a baby in about 10 minutes got married in 12 and we're probably heading for a divorce soon that's a joke oh god it really it's really bringing it all back good it's really bringing it i would love to reread the wrong knickers in like the modern day age with tinder and bumble and dating app culture and see how that would affect very interesting it's so funny that it feels it feels so so kind of old, but it wasn't that long ago. Yeah, four years ago. Yeah. It's not.

So much has changed. Things evolve so quickly. Yeah. Speaking of dating apps, do you want to do bio of the week? Yeah, this is one. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. I'm Jessie Kirkshank, and on my podcast, Phone a Friend, Here's a show that we recommend. I didn't even know what thirsty meant until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like a no.

That's what my grandma's on. Thank God Phone a Friend with Jessie Crookshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Rachel found. Yeah, so, well, anyway, I didn't even write down what this guy's name was.

Irrelevant. Not interesting. So his bio went, I'm just a guy standing in front of a girl asking her to match me on Bumble. Yeah, that's what I said. No. That is what I said.

No, don't. No, you're like, what? How old is he? He's referencing four weddings and a funeral. Isn't that Notting Hill? Yeah, I think it's Notting Hill. Is it? Oh my God, that shows you how old I am.

It's what Julia Roberts says to Hugh Grant. Well, except she doesn't say it. At the very end. The quote is what I'm just a girl. Yes, Rachel, I realise. Just in case the listeners haven't heard it, Olivia. I'm sorry. Oh my God,

I've got my Richard Curtis films mixed up. Actually, that's quite sweet. That's quite sweet. I've just heard that line so many times. I nearly wrote that yesterday on our Instagram caption for the hula hoop thing. Like, I'm just a girl

standing in front of a packet of hula hoops. Asking you to love me. I'm to love her. Olivia considers herself to packet of hula hoops asking you to love me Livvy considers herself to be like head of witty comments yes I am I'm like let's post this picture by the way guys we launched a new Instagram account

at millennial underscore love so we got these lovely pictures and we were going to post one and so Livvy was like I'll do the caption because she thinks she's hilarious and more funny than me apparently but should you not judge a man

by his witticism dating bio oh god I mean what a minefield you know what in the sea

in the sea of emojis and loves travelling loves coffee lives in Brixton I think this was a good one because it stood out Livvy hates people

who live in Brixton everyone just lives in Brixton what's wrong with you living in Brixton I do live in Brixton so does everyone on a bubble hates people who live in Brixton. Everyone just lives in Brixton. What's wrong with you living in Brixton? I do live in Brixton. So does everyone on Bumble. I don't live in Brixton.

Not far though. I'm not on Bumble. You're not on Bumble, Brandy. I don't live far from Brixton. Clap. I said not far. I feel like I did download Tinder once just to see what it was about.

But she says, that's my excuse, darling. I, oh no it would be awful I do like it on Saturday I went to the cinema with my husband which was so fun we went to see the Avengers this is how you know I need to get out more because

I thought it was the best film ever but also like you know you're talking about going into fantasy mode with like real life men that you actually meet like I am like Chris Pratt Chris Hemsworth I'm like a fantasy mode with like real life men that you actually meet like i am like chris pratt chris hemsworth i'm like any of the chris's the chris christmas that film is chris evans as well captain america but like i am i'm like in full like if i lived in the marvel cinematic universe maybe i could be rescued by Thor or the Star Lord

or whoever they are and I'm like this is tragic this is really tragic because I'm not a teenage girl I always fancy the weird guys

in those films though like Loki Loki he's in it I feel so sad Tom Hiddleston is just I can't

I can't escape the Taylor Swift universe well yeah he definitely went down in my books after the Taylor Swift thing yeah what was that about he definitely went down in my books after the Taylor Swift thing. Yeah, what was that about?

And he wore the I Heart TS T-shirt in the scene. I feel that really damaged his career. I think so as well. Low-key, yeah. But low-key fit. He's in it for a bit without wanting to ruin anything. I mean, I quite even like Spider-Man, but he's about eight, isn't he?

Which one? Oh, the new one. Andrew Garfield or a different one? No, Tom Holland. Tom Holland, yeah. he's about eight, isn't he? Twelve. Which one? Oh, the new one. Andrew Garfield or a different one? No, Tom Holland. Tom Holland, yeah. He's about 22, I think. I think I'm closer to his dad's age. His dad's a really good comedian.

Really? Called Dominic Holland, yeah. From my generation. You know it's getting bad. You're not that much older than him. No, but I remember. I remember. Anyway, so I'm in fantasy about the Avengers.

Understandable. Which is just tragic. No, I think that's perfectly fine. I mean, like, could we spend the next, the remainder of the podcast talking about the Avengers Infinity 4, as I called it? God, this is terrible. Anyway, the reason I was mentioning that was because I went to the cinema. Anyway, the reason I was mentioning that was because I went to the cinema and I passed on the street a couple who were obviously like on an app date. They were like, oh, hi, are you?

And I was like, oh, this is so fun to watch. I'm always really self-conscious of being on a first date because I feel like can everyone in this bar tell that I'm on a first date? I don't know. Anyway, so what we're really going to get into. Sorry, I just have a quick thought. I feel like if it's a good first date, they shouldn't be able to tell. Jolly good. Thank you, Olivia.

Sorry. Right. Mental health, dating, relationships. That's what we're mainly here for, guys. We still have a bit of time to talk about this. It's fine. We've sort of done it we've already done it but okay so briny you have you know in the past two years been very open about your ocd and i have to say um i am fortunate in that so far in my life i've never really had any struggles with mental health but reading mad girl get you no no no i mean like

i mean like i'm very lucky so far no no i know sorry i shouldn't have undermined your life experiences i'm sorry thank you um but reading that's why for me reading my girl was super helpful because i've got plenty of friends and like loved ones and family who i know you know struggle with mental health in various different forms and it's always been hard like obviously I still can't fully understand but reading that helped a lot um but you did you hide in your relationships that your OCD and your mental health struggles through your 20s or did you tell people no i totally hid them i tried to hide them i mean i think it was really obvious that there was something not quite like right but you know but i think i but well and again i actually think i was pretty successful at like uh sort of the bubbly

kind of party girl happy happy happy you know that's the problem you can kind of overcompensate and then no absolutely no one has a clue what's going on because that's your the true you is so many layers of the onion down that it's impossible to kind of get there um no i mean harry was the first person i told my husband's called harry not prince harry harry was the first person i told my husband harry was the first person I told. My husband, Harry, was the first person I told about my mental health stuff. And he, you know, and he didn't run a mile. He just was like, OK, fine. You know, and I think it's. Yeah, no, I kept it entirely to myself.

I suffered in silence. So it's wonderful that people don't have to do that anymore. But I have a question. Do you think because obviously now looking back on that period of life, you can tell that things weren't okay at the time do you think you were aware that something wasn't quite right i mean i had i totally had no idea what quite right was or what it looked like i knew that it wasn't what i was experiencing but i genuinely thought because also don't forget you become you tend to surround yourself with people similar to you because then you can sort of validate the way you behave and you know so I I you know I hung I hung with a crowd of people that were kind of similar to me single heavy drinkers party goers you know

so I I mean I never felt quite right ever I never felt like I always felt a bit other a bit like I was a bit of a twat like I kept doing I couldn't do things the way I was supposed to do them I always thought of the things I like that thing I always thought of the things my body couldn't do rather than the things it could do so like when I was a child all I could think about was I can't do a cartwheel I can't do a handstand I can't be in the netball a team I can't you know and then when I was a teenager it was like my my body can't attract the right kind of blokes I'm not you know I feel fat I feel this and then you know and that kind of goes on and and my 20s and a bit of a freak let's take loads of drugs and just shut up those voices and then even in my 30s even when I you know had got married and had a child and I don't mean to kind of sound like that is the kind of be all and

end all and the you know the happy ending because very much that you know life is a journey and things carry on so I'm not saying you meet someone you settle down and everything's suddenly fine because that and actually I'm proof that that isn't the case do you know what I mean like I really thought oh I really thought once I get married and have a kid like everything's gonna be fine you know and you know I thought I've got a bugaboo I've got a flat I've got once I get married and have a kid like everything's gonna be fine you know and you know I thought I've got a bugaboo I've got a flat I've got a I've got a husband you know I've got this sorted and for a while I sort of managed it and then it just fell apart you know and it's only you know I only got sober like nine months ago and you know I'm learning things constantly

but I was I it frightens me how lacking in self-awareness i was in my 20s like i used to think i was self-aware but really what i was was self-loathing and they're very different things you know and um and but i i'm always struck by how how much wiser young people are people in their 20s seem to be how much more sensible sensible is like kind of always looked down on as a word but i think it's really important and how much they look after you know people look after themselves when i was in my 20s you know if you loved yourself it was seen as sort of arrogance you know yeah but you were full of yourself whereas now you know being kind to yourself it's like now now my my my I think of what I can do you know so I can run I've run two marathons I ran the last one in my underwear to prove that curvy girls can run too

you know that everything comes in different shapes and sizes I can sort of do a handstand more of a shoulder stand and I need a wall um no i can do a shoulder stand without a wall but if i wanted to but you know i can do things because i've taken away that kind of like blockage and and it's really liberating and wonderful and you know i really wish that like i don't wish that i'd had it earlier because i didn't and that was my journey and that was a journey i had to go on and that's all you know and you learn stuff you learn stuff in the darkness the darkness is shit but that's when the real growth happens if you just hold on you know and there were times when I didn't want to hold on there were times when I wanted to just get off there were times when I

stood with a packet of medicine that I you know like there were there were bleak times when I wasn't I wanted to die I just didn't want to carry on feeling the way I did but you know all I would say to anyone right now listening to this who is single who feels you know perhaps alone who doesn't feel kind of nourished I can't even believe I've just used that word but do you know what I mean who feels kind of slightly clueless and doesn't know where their life is going is that it's okay that is totally okay and it will it will get better because you know life doesn't throw anything at you that you can't handle actually and everything happens for a reason so even if I look back on those bleak bleak days where I would go out and I would get completely off my face and I would come back or I would go missing for two days.

And then I would, you know, just like all the days when I just couldn't get out of bed because of the weight of depression on my chest. Like, I don't know, like I they were all there for a reason. And I feel much, you know, even all the shitty blokes or the shitty blokes that i who treated me like crap you know i always say you want what you think you're worth you know and and but you know and i had a boyfriend who was abused oh god i sound like it's a car i've gone all serious but you know what i mean is that important though you know you've got to take i think there's a real there's a real sometimes you've got to take the negatives and turn them into positives. Totally, and everything, they're all learning experiences, I think, particularly with the bad relationships.

Like, I remember I was in America with my dad a few weeks ago, had never really spoken to him about relationship stuff ever, sort of broke down on a walk with him and just started talking about all this stuff. And he's very, like, you know quite um stony faced emotionally void dad and of that generation yeah they have not been brought up to talk about their feelings no they haven't but he said something really helpful he just said you know you just have to take a think of it as a as a lesson and think all of the things that you've learned from this and how that will impact your relationships moving forward and that's actually so helpful thinking you know as dark as it might feel at the time everything happens for a reason as you said i think have have faith i'm not suggesting you go to like church or

anything like that like i'm not coming out it's like i'm all bothering out but like have faith that the path you are on is the right one and this bloke or this woman hasn't got back to you and oh i love them like you know actually who knows in six months time you may be really glad they didn't because oh hello you know someone else's completely do you know what i mean like i think of all the blokes that i completely kind of um I basically wasted my energy over. But, you know, I'm glad. I'm fucking glad I didn't end up with them now. You know, even at the time,

I was like, quote unquote, crushed or heartbroken. But, you know, and it is, I think the hardest journey actually, probably the hardest journey, I'm going to sound really cheesy here, is not finding someone else to love you. It's not like it's actually finding a way to love yourself. And that is something I'm still trying to do. And I'm not good at. And that is a journey that you will be on for the rest of your life. I mean, doesn't matter 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70. And 70 and so you know I think it's just about being kind to yourself and you know I think a lot of us I say things to myself that I would never dream of saying to my husband or my best friend or you know I would be like what or if they said it to me I would be like why am I hanging out with you you were just you're horrible you're horrible you're so mean and um so you know i think that that kind of

search for love and fulfillment is is one that we all completely identify with and it's okay to feel a bit sad that you haven't got someone and that whole thing that oh you've got to be happy you know i'm happy and single you know and that's fine if you are brilliant. But, you know, if you're not as well, I think it's like, let's all just accept that we will feel how we feel. And that's OK. Let's not try and change those feelings because they will pass eventually. Yeah, because I very much feel like, you know, I have been single for like ever. And most of the time I am happy, but then I sometimes do get sad about being single and have these moments of I'm never going to find anyone ever. And I sometimes feel like, oh, I can't really talk about that because that's not my persona.

Like, I'm the girl who's really happy being single. People have messaged me, you must be the happiest person to be single ever. And I'm not all the time. And like, then it's again that feminist thing as well. You're saying like, like oh am I letting the side down if I say that maybe I would like a boyfriend actually well maybe I'd just like someone to hang

with maybe I'd just like someone to kind of just like hug you know I really don't think that's a letting down of the feminists you know and I think that yeah I think it's,

I think it's, you know, I think the more we all talk about this stuff, the better, because we can all, and then we can all come together, and then maybe we don't need to have the boyfriends, because if we're all sitting in a room, the three of us chatting, like, you know, that in itself is a sort of feeling of love

and togetherness, and do you know what I mean? I'm so cheesy. No, this is so like, I think this is going to give everyone a boost. Yeah, I think it's also important to address the fact that if you are in a relationship and you feel like you're putting on this front and maybe you are going through some mental health struggles and you haven't divulged that to the person you're with.

Tell them. Absolutely tell them. Because also, if they they respond badly then get the fuck out exactly exactly oh no or to be honest maybe they just need a bit of help like that's not a fair thing to say because you know everyone you know everyone needs uh maybe they need a bit of help and that that's fine you know like not everyone knows how to to respond but I think this is another really interesting thing like say you're listening to this and one of your friends you think is down and or you you have a boyfriend or a girlfriend or whatever who is who is low and you're thinking what do I do like how do I broach this like

actually it's not about like I always thought that i had to offer some sort of advice she says offering advice um but like i always felt that i had to like what if someone came to me with a problem i had to have the solution right that's very female thing as well yeah but that but that isn't that isn't like actually often and i know this personally and i think anyone listening who's ever had a mental health issue will know is some sometimes you just all you want is someone to listen oh my god it's so smile at you and say that's okay fine like that is totally cool come on let's have a hug this is gonna get this is this is not gonna be like this forever and sometimes it can actually be really frustrating if because obviously you're right you

want to offer solutions you want to be pragmatic when someone is down but actually it can make it feel even worse yeah because it makes you feel even worse about having those dark feelings that you feel you can't escape it's like oh god well i need to find a solution but but sometimes there is no solution you're right you just need someone to just listen and just say yeah it's fucking shit you just need someone to listen and and empathize and check in you know send a message and go hey just to let you know i'm thinking about you love you that kind of stuff it's quite simple yeah i think that's really good advice because

i think it can be hard when obviously not as hard as going through whatever the grips of someone might be going through but if you are the other the other person in the relationship to then you can suddenly feel actually quite a lot of pressure to be like how do I support this person what do I do what can I help them with what how can I you know get better or something whereas actually maybe you just need to be there and just show that you understand yeah because as well as well I think you know it's very daunting if you're dating someone new to to think okay when do I tell them that actually I'm really struggling with anxiety or because you know you're nervous that they're they're they're gonna go oh I can't be bothered with this bye-bye and so that's scary so I guess just just showing that you support them and aren't

gonna like suddenly ditch them because they maybe have this other side to them they hadn't showed you before also the reaction is never as bad as you think it's going to be it's a lot better yeah and i actually am so encouraged by the fact that like the younger generations generally people are so much more open about it i've had like three friends in the past month who've said to me um oh i went to the doctors and got diagnosed with anxiety or i'm going to see a therapist for this or I'm struggling with my mental health at the moment, actually. And people are just more open about it. And I think that is so encouraging.

And I do think, like, it's people like you, Bryony, who have really helped make this change in the conversation because people feel that they can talk about it. And it took people like you writing about and being open about your personal experiences to start the conversation. And I mean, obviously, like, you know, Prince Harry, he chooses you to be the one

to actually reveal all of his own personal struggles. Not invite to his wedding. I mean. I'm not bitter. I'm not bitter, Hatter. No, no, I'm not at all. Yeah, no, that was mad. That was mad.

But that was good. It was good. It was about, it was like such an honour to be part of such a kind of a moment of redefining how this country views mental health. And I'm endlessly,

I feel endlessly blessed and to have taken what has been a huge negative in my life and turned it into a bit of a positive and um it's awesome well done it's awesome mad world is honestly one of my favorite podcasts oh thanks this is one of my favorite podcasts i've got a new podcast coming soon actually go on tell us okay so yeah it's got it's called if i can do it i like and it's people talking about the things that they thought they couldn't do and how they came to do them so there's

a kind of i think it's going to be an inspiring theme of the book yeah yeah which is brilliant by the way i really strongly urge everyone to go out and buy a copy of eat drink run it is hilarious inspiring i mean i'm someone that loves running, but, you know, hopefully if you don't love running as well. It's out May the 31st, but you can pre-order it now on Amazon. It's probably available in all good bookstores. Guys, so we've got time for,

sadly we have to wrap everything up, which is unfortunate. Please go to Apple Podcasts and rate, review and subscribe if you enjoyed Millennial Love. Also, we didn't have time sadly for a dating dilemma or disaster

but please do keep sending them in and we promise we'll read them out next time. You can email them to us anonymously at millennial.love

at independent.co.uk You can also follow our new Instagram account which is millennial underscore love It is millennial underscore love or you can tweet us at Olivia Petter 1

and Rachel underscore Hosey. Yes, yes, yes. We're on Facebook as well. If you want to do that, just search our group. You know what it is. Bryony, thank you so much for joining us. I'm going to go and follow you on Instagram. Thank you.

That's exactly what we were asking. No, but you've been so great. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming. Thank you for listening, everyone. And we'll see you or talk to you next week. Bye.

Bye. And all through the house, not one person was stressing. Holla differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash.