Love Lives - #35 Commitment-phobia and deal-breakers

Episode Date: May 25, 2018

Did you know nearly half of Brits (46%) have unconscious issues with commitment? Whether you're single or in a relationship, fear of commitment is very common, as Rachel in particular knows all too well. This week on Millennial Love we reveal our own experiences with commitment-phobia, ponder whether the rise of dating apps is making the problem worse and suggest techniques for overcoming your fear of committing to a certain person, plans or relationship in general.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, the Independent Lifestyle Desk's weekly podcast on love, dating and relationships. Hosted by me, Olivia Petter, lifestyle writer. And me, Rachel Hosey, assistant lifestyle editor. Dating today is a whole new world. With dating apps, millennials are finding it harder to meet people than ever before. And even when we do, who's to say that we won't be ghosted or zombied or benched or cushioned? That's a thing as well.

So that's why we decided to launch Millennial Love as two long-time singletons in their 20s, talking candidly about all of the things we're doing, but not always willing to admit. But Rachel and I are very honest. Too honest. But apparently it's going down well because we got some amazing news this week.

We found out that Millennial love is currently number one in the sexuality charts on apple podcasts so incredible i was about to say in crazy because it's incredible it is and crazy i'm very excited um i'm just finding it hard to believe in a not in a wow oh my goodness i mean i just can't even make sentences now, apparently. Thank you very much to everyone for listening and basically making us sexuality experts. I know, gosh, pressure there. It's quite a lovely label.

So this week, we are going to be talking about, by the way, it's just Rachel and I, in case you hadn't realised that. Yeah, hi, hi. So this week, we're going to be talking about commitment phobia. Because we got a new study sent to us the other day with some very interesting statistics telling us that it's actually very prevalent amongst people who are single and also in relationships. And then we're also going to be talking about dating deal breakers.

And I think Rachel and I both will have very long lists for those. Yeah that probably explains why we're still single. Possibly. But hey ho so the exciting thing is is this episode is coming to you from the past in that by the time this podcast reaches your sweet sweet earbuds unless you're listening to it weeks in the future. But if you're listening to this when it comes out, I am very excited to say I am going to be in the Maldives. So exotic. Which I have not shut up about since I found out I was going. But that is why we're having to record this episode the week before.

But this sort of makes it a bit funny because obviously by the time this podcast comes out, we will have had the royal wedding, which I could not give to. I won't say the swear word, but, you know, I could not give a rat's about. See, I, on the other hand, really could give a rat's about. I am so excited. I think it's great. I mean, I love the royal family. I love a wedding.

I love the royal family. I love a wedding. I actually, at the last one, I sort of made a little shrine in my bedroom where I saved all the newspaper supplements, like the special memorial, not memorial, souvenir editions. Memorabilia. Yes, yes, yes, exactly.

I had a mug and I have all these posters up on my wall. What is it that you love about it? Well, I think we sort of touched on this episodes and episodes and episodes ago i just i it is something that taps into that sort of love of fairy tale romance and it's the traditional thing and and i like that you know megan and harry are making efforts to bring the royal family into the 21st century because lord knows there are lots of ways in which that needs to happen yeah but I mean I just love a bloody huge wedding I mean actually I really feel for them there's so much scrutiny I mean

having a wedding is stressful enough as it is that I mean I I really actually really feel for them but I'm so excited nonetheless and despite all the naysayers like yourself, I actually think on the whole, it brings a very lovely atmosphere and positive vibe to the nation. All right, all right, all right. I'd be excited if I was going. Don't get me wrong. Free party, you know.

Yeah. Well, true. Well, hopefully at the next wedding, we'll get our invitations. But by the time this episode comes out, hopefully everyone's had a lovely time watching the royal wedding or not watching it. As the case may be. I will be in the Maldives. Oh, God.

So you're not going to be able to watch it? Yes, I am. Oh, no. It's this weekend. Sorry. I'm so out of touch. It is confusing. I understand.

Okay. But anyway, to be honest with you, that's mainly what I've been up to. I've been working on the royal wedding a lot I'm really up to my eyeballs in royal wedding right now which is fine because I love it but I'm sort of forgetting what what else is even going on in the world well I'll tell you what else has been going on in the world Rachel there's Amy Schumer's new film called I Feel Pretty oh yes so I went to see that last weekend and I went to see it because

it's had so much criticism it's been controversial hasn't it yeah and I think it's really interesting because I think the purpose of the film so it's sort of inspired by Shallow Howl but it's like a feminist retelling of that

so Amy Schumer is riddled with like insecurities about the way that she looks hates her body is physically repulsed

by herself which is you know a really horrible thing to see on screen I mean it's Amy Schumer she's a Hollywood celebrity she's not exactly like

and she's what a size 12 yeah so that's quite jarring I think from the outset that you've got this like sort of paradox there because she's what, a size 12? Yeah, so that's quite jarring, I think, from the outset, that you've got this sort of paradox there, because she's still a Hollywood celebrity. But anyway, then what happens is she's in a cycle class,

not a cycle class, a soul cycle class, like a spinning thing, and she has an accident and hits her head, wakes up, and suddenly she sees herself completely differently. She sees herself as this like really slim what she perceives to be beautiful and perfect woman and it completely changes her and the way she conducts herself so there are a few spoiler alerts here but you know she gets a

boyfriend and she um stops talking to her old friends and she gets a promotion at work like all this great stuff happens to her um and i think you know obviously the message of that is that beauty comes from within and it doesn't matter what you look like but I just think that message kind of falls flat a bit because of the way it's done it's so it's almost caricatured because she's so over the top with it and it's so it it also kind of ignores and simplifies I think the burdens and pressures that young women feel from popular culture and celebrities like Amy Schumer um in order to look a certain way and like there's so Emily Ratajkowski is in it um the model the model who is constantly posing pictures of herself naked on instagram and

calling it feminism whole other story um but anyway she's in it and there's one scene that just really irritated me at the end when amy schumer walks into the changing rooms of her spinning class and emily ratajkowski's character is crying and amy schumer throughout the film is kind of in awe of em Emily Ratajkowski's character because she's obviously the slim beautiful woman which seems like exactly what Amy's character thinks is synonymous with beauty and what we're all told is to be well exactly it's sort of the Victoria's Secret idealized model anyway she sees her crying asks her what's wrong her and then Emily Ratajkowski says oh I got dumped by my

boyfriend and Amy Schumer's character just reacts in this ridiculously absurd over-the-top way just going oh my god you mean you like you got dumped as if to be like oh god like slim girls can be rejected by men and that's like this big epiphany that she has that then leads to this, you know, supposedly empowering speech about female beauty. But it just seems so hackneyed and so, I don't know, it just really, it just made the whole thing seem a bit stereotypical and a bit silly. Almost patronising, I guess.

Yeah, it is quite patronising. Because, I mean, I don't think anyone't think anyone anyone thinks that oh if you're thin that means you must be an amazing person and no one will ever dump you no one thinks that i get that if you are you know very beautiful by you know society's standards you probably don't have too much trouble attracting people in the first place. But no one, no one thinks that means you're like actually a decent human being. No, and I don't know if that's the message that she's trying to perpetuate with the film,

which she wrote herself as well. But I just, I don't know, I just think it's a shame. I imagine the film came with good intentions. You know, she was trying to probably tap into body positivity and i get that i get that's what you're saying but i need to go and see it definitely go see it i personally i think it skips a lot of the nuance that is required in order to effectively portray interesting a message like that but i'd be interested to see what you think about it i'll try again see it when i come back from you know the maldives when i've just hopefully spent

a week pretending to be a mermaid oh my god you're going to the Maldives yes apologies in advance for anyone who follows me on Instagram because I'm gonna be annoying I'm actually quite excited because I've never been I want to see what it's really like thanks well I will I will show you what it's really like and you know maybe I'll fall in love with a merman yes I hear there are great mermen in the Maldives that's exactly what all the guidebooks say. Yes, yes, exactly. Come here for the mermen. Do you know what is a puzzling question? With mermaids and mermen, this is what happens when we don't have a guest.

Yes, we go off on slight tangents, but how do they reproduce? Oh, that is a good question. Has anyone thought about that before? Do they bash their tails together in a joyous harmony? You've got to be careful then if you accidentally bash your tail. You know, slip a good question. Has anyone thought about that before? Do they bash their tails together in a joyous harmony? You've got to be careful, then, if you accidentally bash your tail. You know, whoops. Slip a scale somewhere. Accidents could ensue.

I'll do some research. God knows what happens with contraception. Christ. All the fluids go and flow around in the ocean. And you're in the sea. You better be careful. Better be careful. Right.

Let's move on. Let's do bio of the week. This is from Mitchell, who is 26, and his bio reads, I joined a reggae band the other day. I play the triangle. I just stand at the back and ting. I mean, I think I've heard that joke before, but I still think it's like, it's quite nice.

It's like a quite snappy um bio and I think you just read that and go like you wouldn't you're not gonna like burst out laughing no but it's something different yeah it's just a bit like you know it's quite it's quite fun it's quite you know I like it I do too congrats to Mitchell so our first main topic of discussion today is commitment phobia, which I think is very interesting as a topic because I think for so long, and this I think has been reinforced by TV shows such as Friends, there's been this stereotype or idea that men have commitment phobia women are always trying to snare a man and i'm talking about heterosexual relationships here women are always trying they want to settle down and get married and have babies and they're just trying to catch a man and make him commit and men are always trying to resist being tied down and etc etc etc which i just think is so not true from my own personal experience and many of my girlfriends often Often it's the other way around.

The guy wants things to get serious and the women are like, I don't know, not sure. I'm not saying it's never the man who wants to commit and the woman who doesn't, but I think this is a damaging stereotype and it is untrue. Yeah, I agree. And I think a lot of it probably comes from that ticking biological clock kind of perception.

You know, women need to have babies. You know, you get less fertile as you get older. So I think that's probably where that, like, slight sexist stereotype comes from, or very sexist. But I think it's interesting because commitment phobia doesn't just mean that you don't want to be in a serious relationship. True. It can also be not wanting to commit to holidays with the person that you don't want to be in a serious relationship. True. It can also be not wanting to commit to holidays

with the person that you're with, not wanting to commit to certain dates. It kind of transpires on all sorts of different scales. So true. And I would also drop in here the date-to-time continuum, which is a theory which I think actually originated on how I met your mother, but it essentially means you don't make plans with someone

further in the future, or like something that's more months away than the amount of time you've been dating. So, for example, if you've been dating for three weeks, you should not be making plans with that person for two months' time. Or, on a different scale, if you've been dating for six months, you don't make plans for eight months' time or on a different scale if you've been dating for six months you don't make plans for eight months time or something and I think there's a lot of sense in that yeah I think

so too I think it's something that a lot of us probably do subconsciously um that we won't make but I think when you start seeing anyone for the first time you don't want to necessarily make plans that are too far in advance just no completely stuff goes wrong but you know I have a friend who recently started dating someone and I think two months or three months in he had asked her to go to a wedding with him in Spain or somewhere like you know six months later it's crazy I know but you know she said yes that would probably freak me out yeah but I think in the right circumstances that stuff doesn't freak you out and that's what I think is at the crux of the commitment phobia thing with me anyway yeah is this something you struggle with or not I don't think it is really no

um it's not that I start seeing someone and I immediately want to be in a relationship with them but I think if I don't if I know I'm seeing someone and I don't want to be with them I don't want to be with them it's not because I'm afraid of committing to someone it's it's just because I know it's not right I think in my head it's it's not commitment phobia um but you know maybe it is subconsciously I mean we have some figures from eHarmony who conducted a study of 2000 of its users into commitment phobia. And it found that one in fourailable or having a lack of confidence uh fear of opening up and being hurt after you were hurt in a previous relationship or just uncertainty over a partner being right for them um and i think there are arguments to say that

commitment phobia can be something a bit more deeply rooted in terms of your family but I don't know I feel like this is something that you struggle with more than I do yeah I genuinely do and it took me actually a long while to realize this was an issue for me because I arguably I never got that far into any relationship but I think the commitment phobia issue is partly why for me it's a case of i i do freak out if i you know i go on like a few dates a handful of dates dating for a few weeks with one guy and they sort of seem to be wanting it to progress and take the next level and i don't know be staying at my house all the time etc etc that makes me freak out and, aha, no, get out of my life. And it makes no sense.

It's completely irrational. And even in the earlier stages of dating someone, I might come back from a first date or a second date and the next day just be like, well, I'm going to swipe the dating apps for the bit, you know, see, because there might be someone else out there. And I do think that dating apps really don't help with this yeah they definitely don't because there's that like swipe culture where you know as soon as you go past someone there's

another face but that is a genuine fear for me i like don't want to commit to one person if i'm like what is this someone better and i hate that i think like that yeah well you're not alone i mean in the study they they had i I think it's, again, one in four or something of users that don't want to limit their options. And that helps so bad, though. It's terrible. You should appreciate when you have someone great. No, I agree.

But I still think my core understanding of all of this stuff, and even with you, I slightly think that, you know, you say you have commitment phobia. I don't think you would have commitment phobia if you met the right person and I know it sounds so cliched

but I really don't think I think when you meet someone and it's mutual and you know which is bloody rare to meet someone that likes you as much as you like them

it's so rare it's so hard but if you do have that and there's that parity of emotions and feelings there then I think all of this you know rubbish just kind of falls to the wayside. I really do.

Yeah, I would like to meet someone with whom I am completely smitten so that then I'm thinking about them all the time and I'm so into them that I'm not even remotely thinking about, oh, was that hot guy who just walked past me on the street? Or that guy on the tube oh my gosh he looks amazing or I you know I'm wanting to go on dating apps I'm so happy with the person I'm with but from my experience whenever I feel that way about someone it's not mutual yeah and the I think the reason why I think that maybe this isn't actually well you know what you have isn't

actually commitment phobia but just not meeting the right person is because when you look at the reasons that psychologists say that people are afraid of commitment, I don't think any of them really apply to you. So for example, the ones I listed before, you know, being in a relationship that has left you reeling that hasn't happened to you. Nope. A lack of confidence. I don't think that's you either quite confident I think you're pretty confident um and then there's also the deeply rooted you know family issues so a lot of these are you know which probably apply more to me to be honest so like coming from a family where your parents are too enmeshed emotionally with you this is what the psychologist who was accompanying the study said um and then you know responding by wanting to be fiercely independent and wanting to escape the clutches of you know that parents and somehow so that's one way um the other way is abandonment issues

and fear of being abandoned again so say for example so not wanting to get close to someone yeah in the fear that they might leave you so say for example a parent has passed away or moved or your parents are separated then you might not want to give yourself to someone so easily in a romantic sense the fear that they will then leave you again like your parent did. And I think a lot of these things are much more subconscious than we realise. And I think you have to be very emotionally intelligent in order to recognise these things in yourself.

It also is linked to, many, many episodes ago, we had a sort of dating expert on called Madeline Mason and she explained to us the three different attachment styles people have so there's secure anxious and avoidant and people who have an avoidant attachment style which I have self-diagnosed for myself are more likely to have issues with commitment and it does it's linked again to this sort of desire to be super independent.

But I also wonder if for some people who might be in my position, is that they are actually almost so used to being single and so used to living their own lives and having their own space and being able to do exactly what they want with their time, their own lives and having their own space and being able to do exactly what they want with their time that it's not necessarily always the case of not wanting to welcome someone into your life because you think there might be someone better around the corner but also because you're actually you're almost too stuck in your ways or too set in your ways or although you could argue that well if you're happy in your ways you don't why do you need to yeah, well, if you're happy in your ways, why do you need to make space for someone else?

Yeah, but I think if you've never been in a relationship before, it's very easy to get sucked into having total autonomy. Completely. And not knowing what it's like not to have that. And I think that's probably quite a daunting thought. Yeah, it is. Being in a relationship, obviously speaking hypothetically here, but it's a compromise. relationship obviously speaking hypothetically here um but it's a compromise you have to give up all of your selfish you know plans and wants and needs for someone else because it's not just you anymore you know I hate the word partner but that is essentially what it is it's a partnership

and it's about compromise and it's a totally different relationship to anything you would have ever had before with a family member or a friend it's a much more intimate relationship not just in the sexual sense but in the amount of time that you spend with someone and the things that you do so i think yeah sacrificing the thought of sacrificing the things that you like doing for another person yeah i mean they have to be really worth it i feel like you must have to really like someone to let them into your life. But that's me speaking as someone who has been single forever and is, I hate this expression,

fiercely independent. I don't know, why is someone always fiercely independent? It's always women who are described like that. I know, I was about to say, men are never described as fiercely independent. No, it's like, also, men are never described as feisty or bossy.

No. You know when you say it's a strong woman? Strong, independent woman. You never say it's like also men are never described as feisty or bossy or you don't you know when he's used as a strong woman you never say it's a strong man like you don't mean it in the same way um i've lost my train of thought now going off on that what was i talking about oh yes when you're independent oh yeah so from the angle of someone who is you know very independent because they always have been for me I feel like god someone must have to be amazing and bring so much joy to my life for me to make space and make time for them and so I feel like god that's so hard to meet someone that amazing whereas some people who

they probably wouldn't agree with me if they're more relationshipy type people. They just think, no, it's just so lovely to have someone. And to them, it's not a case of, oh my God, I have to make time in my life that's so full for someone. It's more like, I just, I want someone. Yeah, I agree with you though. I think, you know, that relationship does have to be really special in order to pursue it but I don't I think it's actually quite damaging to put too much pressure on the individual and actually place the emphasis more on the again quite cliched connection that you guys have because yeah and we'll get on to this when we talk about dating deal breakers but you know you hear so many people talking about relationships that have really surprised them and the people that they ended

up married they never thought they'd see themselves with yeah classic yeah but i think it does happen and it's really it's a testament to you know your yin and yang it's not necessarily that person because you're never gonna find an amazing amazing godlike adonis that is you know ticks all of your boxes it's sadly no you just won't but it's it's just about finding someone that you feel really comfortable with and you know ticks all of the boxes in terms of what you want from a relationship rather than from a human being the question is as sexuality experts that we are yes what do we think those who struggle with commitment in whatever form that may be what do we need to do you go for advice yeah what's your advice to people like moi um well i mean just what i said i would stop

putting so much emphasis on finding the right person and try as much as you can to forget about your checklist um and be very open to meeting people i think say yes to every date that comes your way unless that's really but no one's getting asked on dates like every single day are they you could though if you if you like committed to dating apps okay you could but you probably won't and we don't advocate that but i think give everyone a chance um because you never know um i think don't be snobby about dating apps some people really are i know a lot of people that have met on dating apps and won't even tell people that that's how they met because they're worried that they're going to be thought of as like superficial in some way, which is absurd. I think give them a go.

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I would also add that it's important to remember you can do things at your own pace if you're start if you're seeing someone and you're starting to freak out that it's moving too fast i think it's important to talk to that person and say look things are moving a bit fast for me and if it keeps going like this i will probably push you away totally um and you know you're allowed to put the brakes on and say can we slow things down a bit like can we go back just hang out once a week or something like you know you're allowed to slow it down and if just because someone else is the other person

the person you're dating is seems like to want to do things at the speed of light and you don't doesn't necessarily mean you're not well suited i think you just have to be aware do things at the speed of light and you don't doesn't necessarily mean you're not well suited I think you just have to be aware of you know the fact that they might not have any issues with commitment and if you do tell them so that they know where you're coming from and they can sort of be conscious of not making you freak out yeah you know you're right I think everyone has very like varying degrees of speed they're willing to go at in a relationship some people might want to jump from seeing someone once a week to seeing them you know four nights a week within a month or something

which which I've never had but if that did happen to me that would definitely scare me off I think maybe one reason why I don't see myself as having commitment phobia is because I've never been faced with a situation where I felt like suffocated by someone I'm seeing it's always been pretty laid back and stretched out over a period of weeks rather than so intense that would definitely put me off I'm always just generally I just don't understand because I've never experienced it when people start dating someone and they're suddenly like, I just want to spend all my time with this one person. And I'm like, Christ, I don't want to spend all my... I couldn't spend more than a day with anyone.

No, I know. I told you what my best friend said to me recently about how she wanted to sew herself into her boyfriend. I don't understand the strength of feelings. How do you like anyone that much? I just don't know. I don't want to sew myself into myself. Well, there we go.

We'll hold on hope. Yeah. I think it's important. We still might meet someone we want to sew ourselves into, as bizarre as that sounds. But until then, we need to be conscious of our deal breakers. Very good segue.

So I think that concept of deal breakers is really interesting because you know everyone's always like, oh, you know, you need to throw away the checklist. Well, not everyone actually. When we had Annie Rosa Crowe on, she said, you know, know what you're looking for, etc.

So there's not a sort of one rule for everything. But I don't think there's any problem in having things that are deal breakers for you no I agree I think it's actually quite good to have some deal breakers because it's setting boundaries I agree I think is really important and I don't think being picky is a bad thing no neither do I I mean maybe in 10 years time I'll change my mind and be like why was I so picky but for now I definitely think it's good to be picky because as i've made quite clear no one needs anyone so be picky and if they break your deal that's that's not an expression is it

deal or no deal quite next time i want to break up with a guy i'll just be like no deal all right tell me yours i'm intrigued i, I've got quite a long list. I'm not surprised. I have to say, none of them are about the physical appearance of the person. No, neither are mine. Except bad shoes. Interesting. Like, what kind of bad shoes?

Like, if someone's got, like, really, like, falling apart shoes or just really horrible shoes or what's a horrible shoe i didn't think that is so rude i mean for men sorry i didn't mean it like that i do i do care and like actually really struggled with this one guy i was dating a while ago he had this one faux leather jacket and i just detested it i never said anything but, but I thought it. Interesting. So that is the sort of only thing that's based on looks, which probably sounds quite superficial. But are we just talking scruffy shoes? Just shoes I don't like. Just shoes you don't like.

Like Uggs. Oh my gosh, do men wear Ugg boots? Some. Crocs? Crocs, unless you're a chef. Do you like boat shoes? Yes. Do you like desert boots boots what's desert boots um they're like boots like chelsea boots yeah sort of like boys versions of chelsea yeah yeah yes i love

those yeah okay a lot of boys wear those actually but i don't have a dated one who wears them no i like them though you like trainers depends are sport? No, like Converse or like... See, Converse, less keen on actually. Okay, yeah. And to be honest, I don't really like Converse. Yeah, like are you a skater from 2008? Yeah, like are you an 11-year-old boy listening to My Chemical Romance? Exactly.

That's what I'm saying. Yes, I actually recently went on a date with a guy and he was wearing Converse. And I was like, hmm, that's a cross. Yeah, I've never thought about shoes. But yeah, I see where you're coming from. Do you have any sort of appearance based things? I probably wouldn't date a guy that's short. Which is really bad. We've touched on this so many times.

But that's probably my only physical thing. And I hate to say it, but I probably would agree. But I am the average height for a man and i just want someone taller than me yeah which you know cuts out half the male population really so i'm making things harder for myself from the off but it's just it's just i'm not i'm just not attracted to shorter guys i know but it's because we've been indoctrinated yes I know well men would say you know I'm not attracted to

blah blah blah whatever because yeah true films and true yeah but men men feel it the same way like they don't want

tall girls I was once hanging out with these guys who were two guys who were six foot four and they were like yeah I ideally want

a woman five foot eight or shorter and I was like you are such tall men and yet you think I'm too tall and I'm not even that tall well we spoke about this dearly want a woman five for eight or shorter. And I was like, you are such tall men. And yet you think I'm too tall. And I'm not even that tall. Well, we spoke about this when we had Megan Crabb on.

It's this kind of idealized way of a really strong, big man protecting his tiny, tiny lady. I know, it's so outdated. But hey-ho. So a big, big thing for me is someone who has bad spelling on grammar. Yeah, me too actually. When you're messaging and they just put apostrophes in the wrong places. I've genuinely like ghosted people off dating apps if they can't spell. Same.

That's a good one. But you know, I'm an intellectual snob. You are a snob. And that makes me sound like an awful person. In so many ways. you rachel um that makes me sound like an awful person but yeah i just i don't like it no definitely um but in another snobby way um i feel strongly about table manners oh yeah that's on my list oh that good well but actually it's not quite table manners it's rude to waiting staff slightly different but i understand but for me it's like if you hold your knife and fork wrong or pick your teeth at the table or you know chew with your mouth open yeah and arguably is that a bit snobby i don't know i find it a turn off yeah but it's just

physically unattractive i think for some people yeah and I yeah yeah like snobs like us yeah um would give me another of yours then okay um so this is quite an obvious one but like a bit of a different sense of humor to me in the sense that they don't pick up on like my amazing sarcastic wit um and you know they just don't they don't make me laugh yeah sure you don't necessarily need someone to be particularly outwardly funny but if they don't make me laugh it's never gonna work um and makes sense going into another slightly snobby one someone that lives a bit of an unhealthy lifestyle. No, I completely agree. Like, I'm not saying you have to be into gym,

like I'm into the gym. Maybe you like playing rugby or something. Yeah, or playing football, or just doing something that keeps you active. Yeah, I think for someone who has no interest in being active in any capacity, it is a turn off to me. Yeah, but equally with food as well

because i mean you and i are both oh yes actually no really into our food and well into into healthy food i know i know you like other you know non-healthy foods as well as do i but you know like to look after ourselves true and i don't think i could date someone that was going to mcdonald's every night true I struggled actually before when I was dating a guy who seemed to never ever eat a vegetable or have any interest in eating a vegetable yeah because a lot of the activities you do in a couple revolve around food so that's just really a logistical problem well that's 100% actually an issue for me is that and this kind of just comes down to having the shame shame the same passions as someone you're dating is that I love food and food is a huge part of my life and so I need to be with someone who is

equally interested in trying out new recipes and cooking interesting exciting things and going to try out new restaurants and really cares and is excited about that um not someone who's just like I'll just have pasta with cheese on for dinner every night. Yeah, because it's quite a lethargic persona, isn't it? And that's a bit unattractive. Well, another thing I would say is that for me, I find it a massive turn off if someone isn't enthusiastic or passionate about anything.

It doesn't have to be something we share obviously it's great if it is but it i i find it very attractive when someone is really into something and gets excited about something and is passionate about it and enthusiastic and when someone's just a bit met about everything in their life i don't find it attractive yeah you want someone that has a passion because also you don't want to be someone's only passion. You know what I mean? You want them to have interests. Whether it's certain films or music or whatever. Completely.

Or for sport. You just need something. Yeah, I don't understand. Well, obviously for some people this works well. But for me it clashes if someone just has no sort of get up and go. Yeah. And just wants to sit on the sofa every evening and watch Netflix. And that's nice to do from time to time for sure.

But I would really struggle to date someone like that. Yeah, same. And I did struggle to date someone like that who just did not want to go out to restaurants or go out to do anything. It really was a real struggle for me to convince him to actually go and see the world. And I wasn't saying let's go and, you know, paint the town red and, I don't know, go to a strip club or something.

But just to, not that you would ever do that with a boyfriend, but just to actually, like, go out to dinner to a restaurant. Yeah, completely. I think I suggested it once, and he was like, should we go to Itsu? And maybe that sounds really snobby, but, you know, Itsu is the place

where we go to lunch every day. And you're in London. And you're in London. There's so many fun places to go that don't cost a bomb, that, you know, just a different atmosphere. 100%. So I think another interesting one that I want to ask you about is, so we are both quite anti-drugs as people go.

And I still kind of am getting to grips with how prevalent drug use is actually and would it be an issue for you then if you dated someone who was into drugs you know what I have dated people that are into drugs because to be honest almost everyone I know in my friendship groups from school and university take drugs whether casually or every weekend. Blows my mind. Or once in a while and I know that your friends aren't necessarily like that but for me because I've because I've grown up around it for so long I'm kind of used to it but and I wouldn't I wouldn't it wouldn't be an instant deal breaker for me if someone took drugs from time to time.

Yeah. But I actually think it sort of depends what kind of drug it is. And I know this sounds a bit weird, but like I dated a guy once who was very into ketamine. Right. And that's horse tranquilizer. Is it? And it's a very strange drug. It's a very dark drug.

It's, I mean, I know all drugs drugs are dark but it really messes with your head it's a real it makes you really low it people take it to escape their own reality and it's just quite a dark it's just it's just it's just not a good sign if someone's really into that if you want to take that and you're trying to just escape your reality then something is not right exactly um and so if someone was taking that regularly it would be pretty awful equally if you're going out with someone to club nights or you know whatever and they start taking drugs and then they can't speak to you or even register your existence which has also happened to me i dated guys at uni and would bump into them at house

parties and they wouldn't even look at me because they they couldn't because they were so high on you know coke or mushrooms or whatever they were taking um so that I find really off-putting but if someone does it once in a while when I'm not there it doesn't bother me that much um because that's what all my friends do which doesn't make it okay but i'm just more used to it what about you yeah it's sort of similar like i i really am quite anti-drugs generally um so am i i just i've suppressed all of my views because i can't speak to my friends about it even though i care about them so much and i just want to be like, do you know what you're doing to your brains?

But it's so entrenched in their culture. I, you know, I'm fighting a losing battle. Yeah, I see what you mean. So, I mean, I guess for me, I'd struggle. I would struggle, to be honest, especially if that was something people did regularly. Like if someone was like,

oh, yeah, I tried it it this or that one time because i was curious yeah all right fine i understand you're curious fine um but yeah i think i would really struggle if someone did it regularly but that kind of comes down to sort of having different values in some ways yeah definitely and yeah and different different hobbies as well because you know someone that's really into drugs is probably also really into going to certain nights out in certain clubs and yeah into certain music you know it's all very um ingrained in certain cultures that we're not necessarily big in yeah true true true true and then I think my one other big deal breaker that came to me is, you know,

if someone is not a feminist, if someone is, you know, one of those nice guy misogynists. Oh, God, they're the worst. They are the worst, aren't they? Where they think they're nice, but actually they're a misogynist. And that's just something I would just be like boy bye how do you think that would manifest itself and someone you're seeing um I guess it's it's it's very difficult because I'm not someone who's

gonna like slap a guy for doing anything that he deems to be chivalrous you know I'm not gonna do that if they want to do that but it's it's sort of someone who would try and like control what you wear and say like oh but you look way better in this babe because they don't want you to wear something that's like showing off your cleavage when you're going out without them or something type thing I don't know but you know there's like sort of comments and that guys who just don't get it you just don't get it um the type of guy who like johnny from love island who doesn't understand when a woman wants to split the bill yeah and that you know finds that offensive to his masculinity

fragile male ego exactly not good got any more um oh bad relationship with family. Yeah, I mean, I think someone that is quite dissociated from family life isn't necessarily a bad thing. And that's not always something that is someone's fault. Yeah. But being quite scathing about your family and just having quite toxic relationships is is gonna impact your relationship with that person you know how could it not so I think that's a bit of a red flag just to be cautious of I think it's very difficult because I think when it comes to family it's very much on a case-by-case basis yeah definitely if someone actually has had a hellish upbringing and their parents have been awful or you know they've gone through some

stuff then you i think you can understand why they would want to remove themselves yeah totally from that um but i do know what you mean is it is nice when if someone has a a family they are close to yeah and i think family values and all yeah exactly and i think you know the opposite of deal breakers for me one of the only things that I really, really would like from the person I'm with is someone that comes from a lovely family situation. That's cute. I think that's a real important one for me. Because then you want to feel like you'll then be welcomed into that family.

Exactly. Yeah, no, I get that. Yeah. I realize you and I are fully just like sat here reeling off a list of i know no one's going to want to date us i know and also like i they're going to be like you picky bitches i am sure as well that you know various people will reel off loads of deal breakers and that we will tick all the boxes off so they'll probably be like someone who's snobby and then like you know that we someone who loves grammar oh my god they are the worst people um exactly and they'll be like you know someone who

doesn't know how to let her hair down or someone who's like really annoying and going to the gym all the time like we're not saying that we are perfect individuals and that um anyone who does all the things that we've just listed is an awful human. We just thought it would be quite fun to compare and contrast notes. And please, we did. On the deal breaker scene. If you have any particular deal breakers, we would love to hear them. Yes.

Because we'd love to know if you agree with any of the ones we've shared or if you disagree or if you just want to reveal any of your own, we are always interested to know. Sadly though guys, that's it for today. Please, please, please head to Apple Podcasts where we are chart-topping

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