Love Lives - #36 Is contraception implicitly sexist?

Episode Date: June 1, 2018

This week on Millennial Love we're joined by social media influencer and podcaster Oenone Forbat to discuss the many issues surrounding contraception and specifically whether it's inherently sexist. Whose responsibility should it be to ensure sex is safe? If there was a male pill, would women really trust men to take it given we're the ones who would still get pregnant?We also discuss the different contraception options available and how they affect women psychologically.Follow us on Instagram to stay up-to-date! https://www.instagram.com/millennial_love/Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know a thirsty man until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like, and now that's what my grandma's on. Thank God phone a friend with Jesse Crookshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, the Independent Lifestyle Desk's weekly podcast on love, dating and relationships.

Hosted by me, Rachel Hosey, Assistant Lifestyle Editor, and me, Olivia Petter, Lifestyle Writer. Dating today is a world away from what it was even just 10 years ago. With dating apps, millennials are finding it harder to meet people than ever before. And even when we do, who's to say we won't be ghosted or zombied? So that's why we decided to launch Millennial Love, as two long-time singletons in their 20s talking candidly about all of the things we're doing but not always

willing to admit. This week we are so happy to welcome social media influencer and fellow podcast host of the chart-topping podcast Adulting, Anoni Forbat, who is also a very old friend of mine from school. Hi guys. Welcome. We're excited to have you here, Anoni Forbat. Hello. Who is also a very old friend of mine from school. Hi, guys. Welcome. We're excited to have you here, Anoni. I'm excited about your podcast voice, Rachel, because, oh my God, you turn it on. It literally, it's like, blah, blah, blah. Hello.

Do you know what? Everyone always takes the piss out of me for this. I do it when I'm doing sort of the official bits, like the end bit or the introduction. It's very much my, this is my podcast voice. But then when I actually just really get going in my chat, it just completely goes out the window. I think I do the same, to be fair. Yeah.

I like it. You do. I like it. So this week, after, it would be sort of impossible not to mention this because obviously we recorded our last week's episode while Rachel was in the Maldives about two weeks ago before the historic vote in Ireland to make abortion legal in the Republic of Ireland. It was a 66.4% yes vote to repeal the Eighth Amendment.

Huzzah! Which is amazing because prior to that, women could have faced up to 14 years in prison for having an illegal abortion by ordering pills online. Which is longer than if they got raped and longer than what their rapists would have spent in jail. Exactly. Unfortunately, Northern Ireland, the same penalties still apply or similar.

I think it's, is it slightly similar in Northern Ireland? Is it as strict? I think it's, I think it's as strict. I think it's pretty much the same. Don't quote me on it. That's the next fight. Yeah, they're trying to lift that, but I think it's as strict. Is it the same? I think it's pretty much the same. Don't quote me on it. That's the next fight. Yeah, they're trying to lift that, but I think it's a bit more complicated.

But anyway, in light of that, we thought that we would touch on the sort, because it is related, the issue of contraception, because obviously, you know, women have abortions for various reasons, but one of the reasons why one woman might want to have one is as a result of failed contraceptive. We know we've touched on contraception before but we only really mentioned the different types i think this week we want to

kind of focus on the the psychological side effects but also the social circumstances that surround contraception and and whether it always has to be the woman's responsibility and whether that in itself is sort of implicitly sexist um so we'll discuss that because obviously there's a male pill in development um but will anyone use it i don't know i don't think so but anyway um but first of all rachel opposite me is glowing with her radiant post maldives tan how was it my god dreamy. I'm so sorry for everyone who follows me on Instagram because I was shameless posting so much but the Maldives is made for Instagram so actually I have no regrets. It was absolutely dreamy. It was like I was basically on a honeymoon

without a husband which is delightful and now my actual honeymoon if slash when that ever happens will be shitting in Paris. But I'm sure maybe I will like the guy. So it might be all right. However, I have a fun update for everyone. So cast your mind back a few weeks. You may recall I went on a few dates with a man who I referred to as the fuck boy because he was a fuck boy. And I thought this whole story had gone to bed.

I thought it was the end of him. It's been about three months. And so on the day I came back from Maldives at the weekend, I was like, oh, I'll fight jet lag. I'll go to a spin class. I went to my spin class. And on the way back, my phone pinged. It was a notification on happen

which is where I had originally met said fuck boy and he'd messaged me saying something like um oh Rachel we crossed paths again where have you been hiding or something and I was just like what like what like what if you wanted to message me why why did he message me on happen why didn't he just whatsapp me or it was just so bizarre i didn't know how to react i was literally like what do you want so he got a notification if you come nearby or something he must have been restraining he must have been it's like rachel hosey is three meters away he must have um like been on the app. And because actually my gym is near where he lives,

which is why... Interesting, how you found each other in the first place. Yeah, but I've been to the gym multiple times. Is this this orbiting thing where they keep you nearby? Well, and only just wait. The story's not even over yet. I'm ready. And this is literally a case of every single dating trend you can imagine what

it is was we exchanged like very few messages i was taking ages to reply because i was very tentative um and he was replying straight away and it got to the point where he went we should go for a drink this week and i was just like oh god and I was having a real mental battle because because of what fuckboys are like they're always the ones that for some reason even though you know they're a fuckboy you actually do like them and I fancy him and I do enjoy his company and all this that and the other and I had like a couple of my girlfriends, Livvy included, being like, no, remember what he was like. It's just going to be the same thing again. And I was like, I know that's exactly what I'd be saying

to one of my friends if they were in my position. But when you're in the middle of it, you can't really think sensibly. So I ultimately said to him, I don't know, this week's looking pretty busy. Why do you want to see me again after three months anyway? So I was thinking, like, be a bit sass. And, you know, but not fully closing the door. See what he says? And he just hasn't replied.

Which I think is just, it's too priceless. It is. I think maybe you have to discard him now. I think he's fully discarded. But the fact that, like, when he was going to have to put in the tiniest bit of effort he was not interested he thought i was just gonna be like at his beck and call to pick me up and drop me whenever he wanted me so he has essentially breadcrumbed me benched me zombied me haunted me all of the above have happened and i actually just find it hilarious i mean yeah i'm not surprised he's a fuck boy fuck wants a fuckboy, always a fuckboy.

But the thing is with fuckboys is they are the ones that you uncontrollably fancy. I know. The ones that you're going to end up with, you do really fancy them. But the ones that you really fancy are the fuckboys, always. Always. I know. And this is such classic fuckboyery. It is.

So anyway, that was my saga. No, actually, I'm just so good. Do you feel empowered? I'm so glad. I sent that message. You should message her now. I'm like i'm like ha yeah i actually might be like i'm actually so glad i wasn't just like oh yeah i'm free friday let's go for a drink because it just would have been exactly the same thing over again and he clearly doesn't really like me or isn't really into me otherwise he wouldn't have let it fizzle the first time around etc etc anyway i thought it was quite hilarious in the end very funny

livy you had a birthday i had a birthday i wasn't even gonna mention my birthday i know i was i wasn't gonna not mention so much less excited about my birthday yeah i had my birthday it was fine i turned 24 whoop um we had a really nice time no sorry sorry we did have a really nice time and only bought me some really lovely earrings. Thank you. But the undisputed highlight was probably seeing the Rolling Stones the next day. Yeah, that's cool. That was honestly

the best night of my entire life. Is that why your WhatsApp picture is Mick Jagger? Is it? I haven't even looked. I changed it to Mick Jagger. Sure. Because they also,

they just look so cool. Like him and Keith Richards are in their 70s. Yeah, they are cool. And I just, I would wear everything they wear. Talking about profile pictures real quick. I just tagged my mum on something on Instagram

and I was like, mum, is your profile picture a dog with like bottles around it? She's like, oh yeah, but I really didn't have one. I saw there's a birthday card on the side. So I just took a picture of that. So she just took a picture of a random birthday card of a dog with like bottles around it. Like champagne bottles.

Parents are just priceless. And made that her profile picture on Instagram. Up until now, for the past three years, it's like a lurking account. She doesn't post anything on there. Yeah, my dad's a lurker. She's done a profile picture. My dad's a lurker.

It's hilarious. She stalks all of my fans. That's so funny. Everyone, you are being stalked. Yay. I have a question. So I was talking to someone on Bumble last night or the night before,

and they were like, hey, Livvy, in brackets, Elizabeth, question mark like hey Livvy in brackets Elizabeth question mark has Livvy maybe or Lizzie maybe like has Livvy ever been a nickname Elizabeth no I honestly like I don't want to sound so cynical all the time because I've actually been told by a lot of listeners that we sound so cynical on this podcast but dating apps just open themselves up to satire like that is just too good it's gold isn't it and then also someone on bumble started talking about tinder thinking that we were on tinder and i had to be like mate we're on that being said elizabeth has so i was talking about this someone the other day because it has beth betty eliza lizzie yeah libby there is actually look you'll meet actually i

wonder if that's a joke because we said this about something the other day we're like what's how short for Elizabeth because everything is short for Elizabeth yeah

so maybe that was actually quite clever no no I don't think it was no I don't think it was because I called him out on it and he was like oh Olivia whoops

my bad more than half I have no time for this yeah like you know what I'm like I'm just be like no you said something stupid this is no'm like I'm just be like no you said something stupid this is no more

but I'm awful this is no more it's nice knowing you goodbye have you guys oh my god have you been using Hinge no

I've used it a bit because I went I actually got gel the other day I went out for gel with some single girl fans and they're all on this dating app Hinge

and I was like this looks really fun and me and my friend Poppy both have boyfriends we're like can we have a look please I find Bumble overwhelming enough.

Hinge is like, it has like... I talked about it a few episodes back. Oh, did you? Sorry. You have to give a lot of info about yourself, though. And I like to be mysterious. I thought the idea of the questions, you guys would enjoy that. Because you like pick three random questions to answer.

Yeah, I do. I don't know. It's just kind of like a slightly... Doesn't just... I don't know. It's no Bumble. You're not ready. I think I kind of like a slightly doesn't just, I don't know. It's no, it's no bumble. You're not ready. I think I'm just in a phase of being actually,

I can't be asked with dating or boys or anything, but it's fine. Dolly Alderton recently said on her podcast, The High List, she was advising a listener and was saying, dating is cyclical and you can go through cycles where you, I wanted you to go to dating and cycles where you just don't. And that's fine.

And I was like, yes. I think I'm in the, also known as a dry spell. Yeah, but what happened to wing womaning? I am ready to take anyone out. I will be your real life dating app. Please be. Oh my God, please be.

I would love to be a wing woman, guys. So Anoni has a boyfriend, for those who don't know, which is everyone, because no one else is her friend, except for me. I only have one friend and it's Olivia Petter.

Also, even my boyfriend isn't my friend. He doesn't even I only have one friend and it's a little bit better also even my boyfriend isn't my friend he doesn't even know can I just say as well we had a tweet this week from a lovely listener who said that it was only

she'd been listening to the podcast for ages it was only last week that she kind of worked out who was who in our voices because you said Rachel and I

and I was thinking right we must make a more conscious effort to say our names sorry my voice is so much lower than yours isn't it but the weird thing is I used to get Pandora and Dolly Rachel and I. And I was thinking, right, we must make a more conscious effort to say our names on the podcast. Sorry, my voice is so much lower than yours, isn't it? But the weird thing was,

I used to get Pandora and Dolly confused all the time. Oh, they are the same. And now I know exactly who they are. They have very similar voices. Yeah, they have very similar voices. So I think it's really difficult to assimilate when you're listening. And only, you've already said each of our names,

so that's great. So you're doing a really good job. Yeah. I am a podcaster, so what can I say? What I think you should actually do, though, is actually, why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about who you are and what you do yes we should do that we should have done that before well I kept trying to say it but then the conversation kept getting carried away sorry but now that's probably quite I literally do not stop talking

it's probably one of my biggest traits that I know that's not really who I am or what I do um so I am technically a social media influencer I kind of don't like that term. And it was centered around kind of fitness, but it's more to like health, wellness and lifestyle. And then now it's suddenly got a bit more political. I'm just having a great time. I really liked your post this morning. Okay, this is Wednesday, by the way.

I thought that was really good. My natural cycles post. No, the other one. Oh, was it yesterday? I just saw it today. Yeah, that's okay. The algorithm screws us all over. About weight loss. Yes. Yeah yeah but I thought

you broached it very well that's quite scary I mean that was really interesting in itself because then you had lots of I was trying I was trying to open up the conversation to people

who are fat activists because being in the fitness community I obviously see like a really small window of things yeah and this is your post was basically saying it's kind of scary

to talk about but and you don't with with the body positivity move. You have to remember that actually sometimes being too fat can pose a health risk. Yeah. And then but also the other thing is no one's under any obligation to be healthy. You don't have to be healthy if you don't want to be. And also overweight bodies aren't necessarily unhealthy. No. But I was trying to say like if someone is unhealthily overweight and wants to lose weight how do i talk about it because i've kind of got

to the place with instagram where i don't even want to talk about yeah like how to lose weight for anyone because i'm concerned that how do i know that the person reading my post isn't suffering from an eating disorder and is going to look at me and be like you're already slim why are you posting about fat loss even if it's nothing to do with me social media has just become very very yeah i don't know yeah it's very censored and it's difficult so i did try to approach conversation yesterday it was really interesting even then i don't think that that many people with opposing views even saw it because of the algorithm the way stuff works the only reason fat activists actually got onto it was because people were tagging them saying please could you comment otherwise I actually don't even think it would have showed up in their feed even though I'd

hashtagged Bopo body positivity and that that that post was getting traction I think because I'm a fitness influencer I don't think that would have yeah they would have found it on their discovery because they don't engage with my posts so that in itself is problematic because it's the echo chamber problem. But yeah, I talk more about, normally like things, that kind of discussion or something that's a bit deeper and a bit more polemical,

I do it on my podcast. Not because no one can comment because they can, but it's not quite so interactive. But yeah, so I have a podcast called Adulting where I pretty much just talk about everything

that happens in life. Oh God, sorry. No, no, no, but like, as well, looking at me so intently. From a millennial point of view. Yeah, it's very linked. Yeah, it is true, yeah, it is about millennials and growing up and just, I mean,

it kind of started off less, I don't know, as time's gone on, I've really realized how many things, how many conversations I can open up, which is really exciting because I am someone that loves to have a slightly more political conversation not even like literally linked to politics but in terms of like socio-political and cultural issues which when you are a fitness Instagrammer unfortunately if people look at you like that they're like well sorry you're a personal trainer you can't talk about feminism. People think you're in their head.

Yeah they just don't I think people like they follow you for one thing and it can they get quite disconcerted when you suddenly talk about something else I mean when I first so with like we're going to talk about contraception I have worked with this company natural cycles which I don't think works for me now we can go into that later but when I first did it I got so many people being like sorry you can't talk about this and I was like well I can kind of talk about whatever I want because it's my platform and you're not paying for this content so it's not really anyone's prerogative to tell me what to post obviously I wouldn't post anything if I thought it was damaging and it wasn't even that they didn't

like it it was just that they were like you're a fitness person you can't talk about periods and I was like well I'm also a woman and now the problem is I'm obviously not a medical professional but I do think that as women we should just be allowed to talk about these things a lot more freely and it's part of health and fitness is taking care of your sexual health, your female health, everything. So I think, yeah, comes into it. I basically just think everything is related much more than, I hate this idea

of kind of trying to categorize absolutely everything into small little labels, which is funny because I think generationally that's what we're trying to stop whilst we're simultaneously actually pigeonholing a lot of people into certain roles.'s very interesting funny funny juxtaposition 100 anyway guys let's start on a bio of the week now this is from alistair 25 he says the only thing with stronger pull-out game than me is my sofa bed which you can sleep on if you

change your mind because i respect you as a woman i like it i i know i feel i feel conflicted yeah i find it is a bit problematic no because i do think as well like well you used to be on the sofa but give me your bed no but it's not i just think it's the fact i don't know i shouldn't be offended because i'm so freaking open-minded about stuff. But then that happens and I'm like, whoa, excuse me. I thought it was funny. It is kind of funny, but I actually get really offended really easily by men. It's bad. I'm just like, I think I've got quite high walls up about stuff like that.

Well, it's very topical for our discussion. It is. Which is why it's a good find. A very relevant bio of the week for the topic of contraception. Which is why it's a good find. A very relevant bio of the week for the topic of contraception. Breaking news happens anywhere, anytime. Police have warned the protesters repeatedly, get back.

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Shall we briefly discuss the myriad types of contraception that women can have? Yes, please. Okay, so the most obvious one is the pill. Yes. But even then, there are myriad... Well, there are many different types of pills. So the most common one is the combined pill, which is a mixture of progesterone and estrogen.

And it works by basically regulating your periods. I don't know the exact intricacies of it, but it basically means you take the pill every day for 21 days usually. And then when you stop you have a mini like bleed break and that's when you have a sort of period it's not the same as a normal period it's like a forced period that the pill gives you but it's over 99 effective when used correctly you have to take it the same time every day um so you know it requires a bit of thinking but there are a lot of side effects that affect women differently so it's been linked to mood swings it's been linked to depression there was a study

by the university of copenhagen that found that women on the pill are 23 percent more likely to be diagnosed with clinical depression which is horrific there are no studies that link it to weight gain but i know that from my own experiences and from friends, a lot of women find that it makes them gain weight. Well, it's all gives you water weight. Yeah, because it's low estrogen. Yeah. So it can also make your boobs massive and really sore. It can give you bad skin.

It can give you good skin. There are so many different side effects to it. So that's just that. And that's just the pill. Well, there's the mini pill as well. There's also the mini pill, which is progesterone only. And then going off pills, there's you mini pill as well there's also the mini pill which is progesterone only um and then going off pills there's you look confused i mean i'm like so confused already i'm because i'm i'm

not very knowledgeable about all this and so is there one form of the pill that you you take constantly and you don't have the week right that's the progesterone only pill um and normally what happens originally is they give everyone the combined one but you can't take the combined pill if you smoke or if you're prone to blood clots because so but a lot of people tend to swap to the mini pill because they get they don't have the side effects on the East gym which is normally when people complain of having like like you say like bigger boobs or weight gain or whatever even though they say there's no causal link pretty much everyone I know is taking the combined pill so you get some kind of water

retention or water weight but yeah you don't i didn't bleed on the progesterone only pill but that's not to say that everyone won't some people will get spotting some people will get lengthy bleeding um but some people might not bleed at all but you just continuously take it right because i'm i am i this might sound very strange but i've never been on the pill for contraceptive reasons but I did go on it as a teenager for my acne and you know the awful thing is is the name of it the brand was Dianette but I don't even remember which form that was but they said to me basically you can't be on it for longer than nine months because they said I'd be at risk of blood clots so I had to come off I

also went on the pill initially when I was younger because I used to get really irregular periods that was so heavy that used to make me faint so my mum took me to get the pill when I was like 14 to regulate my periods so I actually didn't go on either but then by the time I started having sex I was already I'd been on contraception and I was on it from I was 14 till I was 23 but then yeah I have friends who've done that as well been on been on theeption and I was on it from when I was 14 until I was 23 but then yeah I have friends who've done that as well

been on the pill for like 10 years and like very formative times of their lives and they're a bit like oh you know this changes your hormones yeah

so when you came off it after that long nearly 10 years what did you what differences did you notice so I was on the combined pill I've spoken about this

several times in different places because it's I don't know why it's just like my pill story but I was on the combined pill from like 14 I went through a few and then I found this favorite one because it made my boobs massive genuinely when I was like 16 I used to take it back to back for three months it made my boobs grow like 10 times do you remember at school I have no boobs now and the worst thing is because they went so big and got so small that

I empty sacks anyway I love them they'll be fine but yeah so I was on that until I was end of first year of uni um so that was until I was 21 and then I swapped onto the progesterone only pill and I way preferred that I found I lost weight swapping between those two pills alone but then I came off the pill one because I broke up with the next boyfriend so I was like well I'm not gonna be sleeping with anyone I'm so sad I'm gonna come off the pill because I as you do what googled like what to do when you've had a breakup how am I going to survive like am I going to die what can I do to stop myself from dying send help and someone had written and I'd been talking about coming off the pill because I had another friend that she was like I come off the pill and I feel like a goddess and I

was like well that sounds great and this woman had written something I think it was even on mumsnet so I don't know what how I'd found myself there. But it was like, I came off the pill and I just had a breakup. And the change in my mood was so exaggerated that it made me get through my breakup so easily. Because I went from being like, not realizing the pill was making me feel quite down, to having such elevated mood that that happening simultaneously. So I was like, I found my answer coming off the pill. Came off the pill, no joke, my mood went from, I realize now that I was, there was

times when I've never had depression I've never been diagnosed anything but there's times when I felt in a depressive mood or a depressed state and had lowered lowered feelings if that makes sense I don't want to align myself with having things I didn't but you know yeah and I've never had those feelings since ever since coming off the pill and it's hard because I've spoken to doctors about it who were like there's no definite causal correlation but it's hard causal link sorry correlation doesn't cause causation we know what you're saying but um but it's really hard to deny it because I know so many people who've had the same responses and I genuinely feel like my mood was heavily affected by the pill and the way that just in a I was it was heightened in a lot of ways

and now I just feel a lot more myself. I'm so scared to go back onto contraception because I don't want to have hormones. See, this is so interesting. Some of my friends have said to me before, even if you're never seeing anyone seriously and having regular sex for ages, if it's sporadic, you're seeing a guy here or there or whatever,

they're like, why don't you just go on the pill to be safe? And I'm like, because I don't want all the side effects. I don't want them. That scares me. Well, the pill isn't the only option, ladies. Oh! I've actually Googled something.

I'm really excited for what you're going to talk about, because if you're going to talk about, is it the Famidom? That is really long. No, no. I'm just going to list them and then talk about the one that I like. So the other ones. So there's the injection, there's the patch, there are obviously condoms.

Wait, wait, wait, can't go over these so quickly. Do you not know what these are? Okay, I'll briefly explain. So the implant lasts for I think three years. It's progesterone, it's the same as progesterone and the pill. Yeah, the little thing that goes in your arm, the injection, I think you get every three months. And that, so you get something injected in your arm every three months and that sort of secretes hormones into you. Yeah.

Wow, that's weird, isn't it? Regulates your period. I know, I don't know many people. I know lots of times I have the implant. Yeah, the patch, which you change every week, it's like a plaster. You just have a plaster on your arm the whole time. It's like a nicotine patch.

Yeah, sort of. And that just does the hormone thing again? Yeah, I think so. That sounds pretty good. I don't know entirely. She mentioned a patch, it looked like a patch. I remember talking to this with the sexual health person

in the clinic a few months ago and she mentioned a patch and it looked like a plaster and I was like, no, not for me. Have you ever worn a nicotine patch?

This is one I used to smoke and I tried to quit and wore one of those and they are so itchy. So if it's anything like that. But I guess it's not the same as secreting nicotine into your skin

and I probably wouldn't suggest that either. Okay, so the one that I like is the coil. So there are two types of coils. This is my favorite. This is my favorite and you should all get it. No, seriously, these things affect every single woman differently and you have to find the best one for you.

But the coil is basically, it's a small little T-shaped device. You can either get a copper one or a different one which has hormones in it and it basically gives you a small dose of progesterone and this goes right up inside your room literally when you say that it just like everything sort of tenses down there okay so I I have had the hormonal coil fitted I've got one called Jada's it's a bit it's than the Mirena, which is the other one. It lasts for three years. The Copper Coil, which has no hormones, lasts for 10 years.

The Mirena lasts for five. So the Jadis is smaller than the Mirena. Yes, it hurts when it gets put in, but it's like, have you ever had, if you've ever been for a smear test. I have. What's the thing called? A speculum.

A speculum. I should be in the audience. I knew you'd know what it's called. You guys are too young for speculums. I've had a speculum exam though because my sister convinced me I had HIV and I had to go get tested. Yeah, I've had a speculum exam. So it feels like that, sort of.

Okay, that's alright. So I can imagine, I'm assuming it feels like a little pinch on a cervix. Yeah, a little bit. So they put like a speculum in and then they put the actual device in. Device. Yeah, it hurts for about 10 seconds

but it's bearable. It'd be like getting your ears pierced but on your actual vagina. It's whole. I'm so squeamish though. It really weirds me out to think of that

just being in there the whole time. But you know what? It's so worth it because after it's in you literally don't have to think about it. I say this but

one of our friends from school, who had one done when we were at uni so you know here and inside joke for these two anyway she bled continuously for two months had to go get it taken out was that the copper or the whole man I can't remember but I think she they put it in quickly oh really actually insert it wrong which is I think that's unusual but it was so bad so that was a few years ago and that's why I have this like entrenched fear of the coil

yeah I think you know I think the majority of cases it's fine but obviously you do occasionally hear stories of it going back it is the same with anything the reason why I like it

is because you don't have to think about it and it actually the hormonal one can stop your periods altogether which I love and you know being completely honest i went on the pill and and even before i went on the pill i would always get really sore boobs when i was on my

period to the point where like i couldn't lie down and it just it hurts so much now on the coil touch wood i haven't had that yet i've been on it for three months you know what though livy's boobs look like bella hadid's boobs so I think they went so you mentioned this on the podcast yeah but I think that's punishment for having such good boobs that's why she gets boob pain every month it's just balancing it out love okay you can't have it all yeah all right thanks babes great boobs anyway different types of contraception aside I wanted to ask you guys about the circumstances surrounding contraception because I was having ask you guys about the circumstances surrounding contraception because i was having a conversation with my friend about this so when you sleep with a guy for the

first time i would always bring up the conversation of contraception or just you know be like oh do you have a condom or something like that not only because obviously all of the contraceptions we've mentioned don't protect you from stds you need a condom to do that and obviously if you're sleeping with someone for the first time you don't know yeah i think that's the only thing you need to know i think you should just always and i know the thing is a lot of the time when if you are sleeping with someone for the first time the likelihood is is it after night out are you yeah and so that's when it doesn't happen but i would say that i know people who have had an sti for a long period of time such as chlamydia,

and then found out later on in life that they've had fertility problems. So just don't take it lightly and think, oh, they don't look like, you don't know. A lot of them go unseen for ages. So I'm quite scared personally about that. So am I. So I think that's always a conversation you need to have. But I was talking about this with my friend. I thought it was kind of just common to have that conversation and she

said that she's been on the pill for like seven years and every time she slept with someone new for the first time she's never brought it up because she hasn't felt the need to but the guy hasn't brought it up either okay well and i thought that's really problematic because surely if she doesn't bring it up the guy would think oh wait maybe this girl is not on the pill maybe i should go get a condom i don't think a guy would ever think that i genuinely like 90 of guys awful though i only got a freaking word in sorry rachel uh so i have only had one experience where um the guy has sort of presumed i was on the pill i was just like fully just gonna shoot on in and um i've had to be like whoa hold up there not on the pill and was just like fully just gonna shoot on in and um i've had to be like whoa hold up there not on the pill get a condom words um i know um but in all the other cases i mean not

there's loads of cases but all 325 other cases uh there has been a chat of condom yeah um so i would say like it's not necessarily the case that all guys presume a woman is on the pill um and but but okay the interesting thing about condoms is is whose responsibility is it because i have some girlfriends actually who think it's always the man's job to have the condom because he's the one with the willy but i don't necessarily think that's true i think it comes down to whose house you're at and who is the host or hostess. Because if it's your house, it's your responsibility to provide the water, the snacks and the condoms.

I also just thought quickly, I think that guys don't presume on the pill. I think that they think you will tell them because I'm sure we're going to come onto this, but it's basically seen as a woman's job to protect against pregnancy. And because it's your risk. Which is the implied sexism.

The problem. Yeah, but that's what I mean. But because that's the risk that they think you're not going to take i genuinely think a guy will assume that if you aren't on the pill that you will tell them yeah i also think that guys just always seem to have a condom in their wallet but i don't generally carry a wallet or necessarily even have a bag so i don't necessarily have them on me i think guys generally do own them to guys moms I swear guys moms buy them so many like is that not a thing um I swear guys I don't know I just feel like I feel like guys have condoms more than girls do because it goes on them whereas like

they you don't ask them to buy you the pill I know you don't pay for it but like yeah for sure I think every girl should always have condoms at her house, just to be safe. Yeah, I have some at my house, but I don't carry them with me. No, whereas a guy always has a condom in their wallet, don't they? Like, no matter, do you never used to go to the boys' wallets at school? Yeah, they do.

And we'd be at lunch, like 14. Like, where are you going? That's more of like a toxic masculinity thing though, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I'm such a lad. I have sex wherever I want, whenever I want.

All the time. I'm ready. Yeah, fine sex wherever I want whenever I want all the time I'm ready yeah fine I also think that's the problem a lot of people don't like condoms myself included

I really don't like them well I think that's also the problem men don't like them no men really don't I think on the whole

men dislike them more than women do no they do I take all of my girl friends really dislike them really dislike I actually had this

conversation the other day because one of our friends why are we talking about it I don't know and everyone was like yeah I hate condoms so I don't think anyone really likes them

but I think they're necessary oh yeah within the first few weeks of any relationship even if you are on contraception no I agree I think that if you're

sleeping together for the first time I think if you're getting into a relationship go and get tested together that's the best thing to do but what I don't like is that in a new relationship it's sort of okay for the first few weeks well I think if you're getting into a relationship go and get tested together that's the best thing to do but what I don't like is that in this in a new relationship it's sort of okay for the first few weeks we'll just use a condom and then if

you're like okay this is gonna be a serious regular thing it's then meant to be the woman's responsibility to go and sort something out and go on the pill or get the implant or whatever it may be it's then oh now it's down to the woman yeah and you have to sort it out so we don't get prego this is although my boyfriend thinks so sweet and lovely we did have to sort it out so we don't get prego. Although my boyfriend was so sweet and lovely, we did have to talk about it because obviously we were like, what are we going to do? And he said to me, because he's so sweet, he's like, I do know that when you came off the pill, though,

you really didn't like it and that you don't want to go back on it. So what do you want to do? Because I know that affects you badly, so I don't want you to go on it. Which is why I then went on to a different type of contraception, which I forget to do properly. So we can't, that doesn't work either. So he tells me off for that. It it's the thing you have to take your temperature the only time I remember is when he's at my house and he's like morning take your temperature and I'm like okay and then when he's not there I'm like oh you have to be really diligent and this is where you like log

all these things it basically tells you where you're fertile when you're not but when you have bad days you have to use a condom because you're not protected also condoms split yes no contraceptive is 100% effective no apart from abstinence

which any of you guys are welcome to practice yes absolutely and then also the thing that I think is sort of

the tacit sexism of it all is that men can men can take the condoms off without the women realising and they do

and they do and it's called stealthing and it's happened to me and it's horrific episode one also listen to our thoughts on it yeah we covered this on our first episode

and then it happened to you after the first episode which is what was so yeah it's kind of happened to me since as well and it was very confusing because it was sort of like

condom was on then things came out and other things happened well exactly it was very confusing because it was sort of like condom was on then things came out and other things happened well they went back in and then I realized it was off and it was like oh well exactly sex isn't a straightforward process so that's that it can happen and and then suddenly it's like oh fuck and then you're like oh is this guy just not thinking was it an accident or was he planning this what did did you think in your scenario? Did you think that it was an accident or did you think?

So at the time, I was in the throes of passion and a bit drunk. Right. So I said to him, I was like, do not come inside me and are you clean?

And he was like, yeah, I got tested two weeks ago. Oh my God, you can't. But I'm such a moron. Yeah, that's so.

The next morning, this wasn't like a one night stand thing. This was like a guy I'd been seeing. So I thought I could trust him, but still the next morning I was like, I'm such a moron. Like I'm such an idiot.

Never, never do that listeners. Learn from my errors. I did go and, you know, get tested and everything's fine. But I, you know, at the time I just wasn't thinking. Yeah, it's very hard. Also, that's the thing,

when you're in the middle of having sex, it's hardly like when you're being the most, like thinking clearly, actually your mind completely loses it. Especially when I was younger, I mean I have to say I'm a lot firmer now and I'm a lot more in charge of my sexuality and stuff, but I think if there's anyone younger listening,

the most difficult thing is a lot of the time the woman doesn't, or the young girl, doesn't feel like the sexual act they're engaging in is necessarily about them, or that's how I thing is a lot of the time the woman doesn't or the young girl doesn't feel like the sexual act they're engaging in is necessarily about them or that's how I certainly felt a lot of time when I was younger and I think what's easier now as a woman I feel like I can be like actually no this is this this is for me this view xyz but when you're little you're like not little that sounds awful when you're younger you might not feel like you have the confidence to say actually I I wouldn't don't feel comfortable you not wearing a condom or I don't feel comfortable us doing this and I think that's

that's a really important message to drive home is that as a woman especially you've got every right to kind of say to set those lines out and it doesn't make you any less of a person because sometimes I think when when you are younger and engaging in activities you believe that you know if I turn this person down they're gonna think i'm yeah of course like not a very good partner i think that's what worries me i think now we're a bit older like we know what we're doing but i just i look back to younger me and that's where i'm like that's where the message of contraception really needs to be driven home i think and what we need is a male pill yes so the male pill i think i feel like i've ranted about this on a previous episode but but it's just it just really frustrates me because

obviously we've spoken about all of the side effects that the female combined pill can give women the male pill has been in development for quite a few years and the reason why it's taking so long is because researchers keep having to go back and make sure that the test subjects are experiencing no side effect and the powers that be are all men yeah always

yeah but it's just so interesting they're spending so long fine tuning this like perfect male pill with no incentive to make sure that there are zero side effects

when women are battling so the precious men don't have to suffer yeah exactly the thing is with that as well like you're gonna be would you trust I mean I would implicitly

trust my boyfriend now to take a pill but in life would you trust a guy if you were like trust my boyfriend now to take a pill but in life would you trust a guy if you're like are you on the pill and they said yes because he's not actually gonna get exactly so how i mean i guess in terms of relationship wise it could be useful but i don't know if in a standalone situation you could trust guys to actually would you want to even put that risk i don't know yeah you sort of feel like actually you want to be in control right yeah which is annoying annoying thing to say because the men are going to be like

see we don't need a male pill because you wouldn't even bother letting us take it anyway i know it's annoying everything is annoying why don't they make it so that men can have babies i know that would be useful like seahorses it's 2018 that'll come hopefully just stay tuned guys i think we'll be able to carry them around like externally yeah that'd be cool like seahorses it's 2018 that'll come hopefully just stay tuned guys i think we'll be able to carry them around like externally yeah that'd be cool like a handbag stick on you pass that would sort it all out that would sort all the sexism out if men could have kids we wouldn't be having this conversation are you joking they'd go out with their friends but i forgot yeah but then they'd have to take they'd have to take more time off work and

everything so i feel like gender pay gap would help be eradicated as well just true yeah I mean it's difficult it's difficult we need to really speak to the seahorses they're the ones that do it yeah next episode we will speak to the seahorses we'll get back to you guys exactly right okay got a very few minutes let's do a quick dating disaster now this is actually a story that a friend told me about her friend, but for ease, I'm going to read it in first person as if I am the woman in question. Excellent. I went on a first date with a guy and he invited me around for dinner at his, which was quite forward, but he seemed harmless. Dinner wasn't remarkable, but it was fine. I think it was a curry.

Not long after we finished eating, we were sitting on the sofa chatting. My stomach began to feel a bit odd, but I thought maybe I'd just eaten too much or too quickly. My date then excused himself to go to the bathroom. About a minute later, it hit me. The overwhelming need to do a poo. It was extremely sudden and unlike anything I'd felt before. I knocked on the bathroom door saying I needed to use the loo urgently. Just a minute, he replied, but a minute was too long. I sh felt before. I knocked on the bathroom door saying I needed to use the loo urgently. Just a minute, he replied, but a minute was too long. I shat myself at a stranger's flat on our first date. Wait, does shat herself mean that she wasn't in a toilet? Yeah, she was not in a toilet. She was in the corridor. Oh, blimey. I go on. Remarkably, he was incredibly

kind about it. Go and have a shower and I'll wash your clothes, he said. I go on. Remarkably, he was incredibly kind about it. Go and have a shower and I'll wash your clothes, he said. So I did. When I came out of the shower, I walked towards his room to get dressed. He was in there and the door was left ajar. It was then that I saw my date smelling my soiled clothes. It turned out he had given me laxatives to make me poo myself because he had a thing for smelling it.

And I've since learned he's done it to many other girls. Needless to say, I was put off letting a guy cook for me for a while. Right, I've heard this story before. This is the interesting thing. I thought you told me this story. Have you not? No, because I only heard this for the first time recently. Someone else has told me this story.

I've got jaw ache from how shocked I am. Like having my mouth open. That was my reaction. but i've since told it to a different friend and she was like yeah i've heard that story which makes me think it's gone around reddit or something if it's a myth or if it's a guy that's done it to loads of girls or if just everyone shared the story because it's so i would like to ask to ask kind of a logical question. How long, just having experienced using laxatives in the past, how long was there between the mealtime and the shitting? Because normally I'd say at least eight hours. Oh, really?

Oh, that could be a flaw in this. I don't know enough about laxatives. I think people are just too obsessed with poo stories when it comes to dating. We've had a lot of poo stories. I have to say, that would be like my bit. I don't talk about, we don't talk about that in our relationship

about the poo. No. I think it's a bit, I think the sexiness has gone. I have done in people's relationship where it hasn't been weird

but I just, now this time it's just a no. It just doesn't happen. No one knows. Who knows? We don't go. And even if you kind of know,

you don't talk about it. You're like, oh you've been gone for half an hour. I don't know why. Who knows? Where were you? I don't know.

What's that smell? What? I don't know. Lovely. That were you I don't know what's that smell I don't know lovely that's the way to do it guys what I'm going to ask the listeners though is have you heard this story

because my friend claims that it happened to her friend we need to get her on which is like I need to know I love that like we our podcast

sorry guys you can come back I want to know has everyone heard this story and if so how i i need to know if it's real or not because it's kind of so outrageous i kind of wish it was really but it's awful hold me i thought you told me but clearly you are you just getting messed up with all the other poos no no i would not get mixed up with this it was a man getting excited about poo and that is what this story is about we need to also google how common this fetish is. I haven't actually heard of, I've heard of people smelling,

because people try to buy Miranda pants quite frequently on Instagram. And my hair bands. Weird. I mean, I could probably make quite good money, but still. I've never heard of anyone wanting to smell someone else's fresh poo. I don't know.

I think that's really rank. On that note, we're out of time. Thank you so much for listening. Please do subscribe to millennial love give us a rating give us a review on apple podcast because this helps other people discover the podcast and please send us your dating disasters whether they are poo related or otherwise um and your dilemmas as well we will get to those eventually we do have lots in the backlog to solve being gurus that we are um so if you any, you can email them to us anonymously at millennial.love at independent.co.uk.

Or you can slide into our DMs at millennial, what is it? Millennial underscore love? Millennial underscore love on Instagram. Thanks, Anoni. Also, follow Anoni on Instagram. What is your username these days? People got so confused. It's my name, but spelt wrong because I'm cool.

No, it's Anoni, which is U-H-N-O-N-E-E, which is like the phonetics of my name. Because if you saw my name on its own, people think it's either one one or just like a load of vowels. One one is my face. Yeah, I know. Brilliant.

Lovely. Yes. So as we said, Instagram, millennial underscore love or I am Rachel underscore Hosey and Olivia is at Olivia Petter eight. lovely yes so as we said Instagram millennial underscore love or I am Rachel underscore hosie and Olivia is

at Olivia Petter eight yeah on Instagram or at Olivia Petter one I was about to

say it's a one yeah yeah it's different you're regretting making this consistent oh guys I have so many regrets in life that's one of them

oh Liv don't say that don't regret not following us on Instagram oh nice I know thank you that was really bad or join our Facebook group which is Oh Liv, don't say that. Don't regret not following us on Instagram. Oh nice. I know, thank you.

That was really bad. Or join our Facebook group which is facebook.com slash group slash millennial.love And Noni, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks very much for having me. It's been so much fun. I really enjoyed your insight

and your candidness which has been delightful. I'm really sorry if I talk too much. No. It's the feedback I get in a lot of situations. We invite people here to talk. This is true. This is why I podcast also. It's been delightful. I'm really sorry if I talk too much. The feedback I get in a lot of situations. We invite people here to talk. This is true. This is why I podcast also.

It's an outlet. Exactly. We'll be back for more talking next week. Yay for talking. Bye-bye. T'was the season of chaos and all through the house, We'll see you next time.