Love Lives - #43 Dating as a millennial single mum

Episode Date: July 20, 2018

As Rachel and Olivia harp on about every week, dating in your 20s is no walk in the park. But add a baby into the mix, and things get a lot more complicated.This week we’re joined by Amy Nickell, author of Confessions of a Single Mum, to debunk the most common misconceptions around life as a young single mother on the dating scene today.Follow us on Instagram to stay up-to-date! https://www.instagram.com/millennial_loveSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, the Independent Lifestyle Desk's weekly podcast on love, dating and relationships, hosted by me, Olivia Petter, Lifestyle Writer, and me, Rachel Hosey, Assistant Lifestyle Editor. Dating today is a world away from what it was even just 10 years ago. With dating apps, millennials are finding it harder to meet people than ever before. And even when we do, who's to say we won't be ghosted or zombied? So that's why we decided to launch Millennial Love as two longtime singletons in their 20s talking candidly about all of the things everyone is doing but not always willing to admit. Today we are delighted to welcome author and journalist Amy Nickell whose book Confessions of a Single Mum debunks the common misconceptions

around life as a single mother today, mostly those revolving around dating. Amy, welcome. Thank you very much for having me, what a lovely introduction. We're thrilled to have you here. I wish I could roll my R's. I can join you in the whole long time singleton category. Oh, it's a lovely place to be, isn't it? Absolutely fantastic. We're in good company. So, Amy, you have a little boy, Freddie. Yes. How old is Freddie?

He's three now. Sweet. Why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, your background, your story and how you got to where you are today? So when I was 24, I was living the 20s dream, living with my best friend, absolutely loving life, probably making some bad decisions, dating, just being young, single but also I was very career focused I was working in showbiz journalism I was doing really well I was getting progressing my career really nicely and then out of nowhere well not out of nowhere because I think we all know how babies are made but very much accidentally I discovered I was pregnant and I was pregnant but I didn't have a boyfriend I had a casual it was a casual relationship very millennial yeah with those I mean I wanted him to be my boyfriend but he didn't feel the same so you know when when when we found out that I was harboring his child he wanted to be my

boyfriend even less and we never heard from him again which sounds terrible but actually despite your the assumptions I had at the time and perhaps people listening to this might be like that would be probably the worst thing that could happen to you when you're 24 it's turned out to be the best thing that I the best decision I've ever made and I haven't looked back once so fantastic well we are going to get into all the details we're going to deep dive into what it's like to be a single mother in your 20s, dating, general life, relationships, friendships. We are going to go deep and find out all about that. It's going to be fascinating, I'm sure. But first, shall we do a little bit of a catch up? The funny thing is we're actually recording this episode ahead of time because guess what? I'm going away again.

So actually, by the time this podcast reaches your sweet ears, I'm going to be in Italy having a lovely time eating a lot of pizza, pasta, gelato, burrata, tiramisu, drinking lots of, God, I really love Italian food. I feel like everything in your life that you get excited about is resolved around food food that's going to be there absolutely the type of prosecco that's going to be there that's the only reason i do anything i'm like what's the food absolutely um but i'm quite intrigued as well not because i'm going on family holiday i'm not going to be um you know swanning off with lots of men however i do always

think italian men are absolutely jokes when it comes to how forward they are i think they're I'm not going to be, you know, swanning off with lots of men. However, I do always think Italian men are absolutely jokes when it comes to how forward they are. I think they're shameless. That's Europeans in general. I love it. And Americans. I love an American.

No, but I'm sorry. I do think Italians are like ultimate. The amount of times I've got chatted up by Italian guys and if they weren't Italian, I'd be like, this is so out of order. Leave me alone. But now I'm just like this is so out of order leave me alone but

now I'm just like roll my eyes I'm Italian the accent helps I think with forwardness but then I think British men are more reserved than any other so as soon as we go on holiday we're like oh my god it's a revelation I know we're irresistible I know am I gorgeous I must be gorgeous you are gorgeous thank you Rachel you're gonna be so much more gorgeous when you come back

all brown and tanned even more even more yeah you're already so brown you are really brown she's so brown she just got back

from where were you Portugal Portugal and she's been to the Maldives I just Mr Worldwide over here yeah

do you fire up Tinder when you're on holiday? I occasionally do, but I'm just a bit intrigued to see what's out there. But I will never actually meet up with anyone abroad. I once went on a family holiday with my son and my parents and ended up on a Tinder date in Barbados. Wow. That's amazing.

Is that the most middle class sentence ever uttered? Yeah. I love it though. That's great. Were you just literally like to your son and parents, bye, I'm going on a date? Well, I was initially just catfishing just to have a look around,

see what was kind of there because where I live, Tinder, it can be quite limited. So whenever I go anywhere, Where do you live? In the home counties. live in the home counties oh the home yeah it's very nice people move there when they get married so the people who are there or left are normally the ones that have like moved home for a bit oh sure or who are married which is

a problem um but yes i was just having a look and matched with somebody who i thought i can't really pass this up. So I just booked a baby. I sound like a terrible person. No, you don't. It was just a three-hour babysitter. He had a great time. You sound like you're living your best life, quite frankly.

Why did you book a babysitter? Could your parents not have looked after you? No, no, no, no. They were on holiday. Oh, fair enough. Fair enough. Oh, lovely. Fantastic. I love the way you assume, like, parents, free babysitting.

Okay, this is one of the misconceptions we're gonna get to later on guys i know nothing liby um where will i be in two weeks time i will be here uh missing me missing rachel my only friend and only you know the closest thing i have to a boyfriend probably see her every day talk about dating you know meaningful stuff i'll be lost without you right i don't know what i'm gonna do i know i will actually be preparing to go on holiday i'm going to slovenia the following week so that's fun so that will be very fun with um with my four gals oh gals how do you prepare to go on holiday it's a very good question A lot of hair removal and a spray tan.

Yeah, paint my nails, paint my toenails. Maybe... Bikini shopping. Yeah, I bought a bikini the other day, actually. It's pink gingham. It's very cool. Wear that. Yeah.

Great. Just buy some books. Lovely. Buy my book. Buy Amy's book. Read Amy's book. It's a great summer read fabulous okay so you may recall a couple of episodes back in lieu of a bio of the week from a man we decided that because we had

seen no good bios we would critique my bio and this week it's livvy's turn I'm so excited for this this is Livvy's bumble bio it says Livvy 24 the independent University of Bristol 2015 location London and then the profile reads getting shaky after school since 94 what that's what i think really what does that mean what does that mean when it is getting shaky do you not know the song what song i'm not a problem baby gets shaky after oh okay no i do know that song okay i was gonna run but listening to that song but when i read that i didn't you didn't get it didn't come to me okay. Okay, right. It used to be, it used to be, be nice, I might write about you or something. I remember that. And Louise from Bumble came on and analysed both our profiles and told me that that was quite threatening.

I didn't think it was. I think it was quite funny and a joke. Maybe, I don't know. Yeah, so I decided to have a, you know, rebrand of my Bumble profile. But Livvy's quite elusive because her bio is just kind of like hmm I'm chill and I'm kind of cool and funny it doesn't really tell

that tell them Rachel that's exactly who I am I am chill and cool and kind of funny is that not what men want well maybe but to get shaky she doesn't reveal anything about

her real self University of Bristol says a lot yeah I have a question if you because Rachel's bio is very different to mine. Very different. Hers has emojis and stuff.

That was so disparaging. Sorry. There's nothing wrong with an emoji. I'm not being critical. I just want to know if you were writing. Roman Kemp likes emojis. Yes, okay. Roman Kemp liked her profile.

Although he did question you on it. Yes, where he said the word averse and aficionado. Were too wordy. But I have a question if you were gonna write my bio for me you know me pretty well oh what would you say oh mate i need to put more thought into this um because you say i don't reveal anything about myself well do you know what i think i think our challenge for the next episode is to rewrite them for each other yeah possibly even trial them oh okay challenge accepted brilliant um we'll let you know how although i think if roman kemp likes your um bio then that's a bit of a blue tick for me i i would i would keep it

i bet he did that's just me yeah i would prefer Martin Kemp to, like, my bio, but then I'm a little bit older, so... What's your bio? My bio... Well, no, because I... Well, this is interesting, actually. Once my friend hacked my bio, my Tinder, and changed my... Hacked into it?

Well, it was when I was newly single, and they're like, oh, let's get you Tinder, see what we can get you know we'll go fishing for you it'll be a laugh and he changed the bio to gone girl without the husband which is oh that's a little dark but literally the messages kept coming which i think is testament to the fact that no one looks at bios well that is what roman said as well there you go roman call me um but my current one which i already know is instantly regrettable is fun is the aim peace emoji very chill but it's supposed to be because when you have a child see it's got a serious undertone people assume you want a husband and a dad-shaped puzzle piece and you're all very serious.

So for me, fun is the aim piece emoji was meant to dispel that. However, actually, it just says fancy a shag. Yes, I can imagine it being taken that way, to be honest. Yeah. Oh, well, we live and learn. So the main topic of discussion today is based on Amy's book. It's a topic that we've never really explored before. And it's all about what it's like to be a single mother in your 20s.

So this is very interesting because we've actually recently received some stats from a new survey from Match.com all about this. some stats from a new survey from match.com all about this um so they have found out that 35 percent of british single parents haven't been on a date in over a year with 45 percent saying they never date despite this 45 percent say they would like to find a long-term partner and a quarter of single parents worry that having children will put off prospective dates amy what's your initial reaction there's so much to take in from that so a lot yeah so the first thing i think is that i noticed that they say 45 with like a long-term relationship so there's already that instant judgment that that's what what we're looking for but more don't want a long-term partner.

Yeah, actually, hang on. Read me the first one again. The first one was 35% of British single parents haven't been on a date in over a year. We're all very tired. We've got a lot on. They're probably new parents. 45% never date. We're exhausted.

What can we say? To be fair, I rarely date these days. What's my excuse? We're too busy cooking fish fingers and going to soft play. Oh, fish fingers. You're a vegan. Children eat a lot like hungover. They were my go-to drunk snack.

See? Don't you're a vegan me with those judgmental eyes. Miss Baratta over there. Baratta is delicious. But do you know what? The statistic about them feeling like they don't want to date is interesting because I know that when I first went back to dating, I definitely felt inadequate and I didn't feel as confident as pre-baby.

I definitely went for people I would have never even dreamed of considering you lower your standards yeah I why I felt like I had to because I believed all the stigma about this this whole culture of saying if you have children it's considered baggage you know oh you don't want someone with baggage it's so complicated it and but actually the only one judging parents was me because I personally since I've been dating have not really encountered much negativity from the men folk so when did you start dating again after having Freddie I mean when I was when I got pregnant, I was actually seeing someone new. Oh. So he said, is everything okay?

And I said, I've got something to tell you. I presume it must have been quite new. Yeah. So basically you've got a month where you don't know you're pregnant. So the circumstances in which I got pregnant was I booty called an ex. Sure. As you do. Yeah. After my work booty called an ex. Sure. As you do. Yeah. After my work Christmas party.

Natural. Yeah. And that was how Freddie was conceived. So, and then I never saw him again because I was like, that was a big mistake. I don't want to go back there. I already hadn't been back there for like two months before. Did you know Christmas is like the peak time for conception

and that's why 26th September is the most popular birthday of the year. And Freddie's birthday is the 10th of September. There you go. It's close. And my birthday is the 5th of September. So my mum and dad were just getting freaky. I'm 23rd. I'm very close.

To be fair, I know when I was conceived. Do you? Yeah, my dad once told me it was New Year's Eve. Although actually technically the early hours of the morning so technically new year's day that's a fun fact you didn't want to know what a wonderful celebration for them i'm glad they rung in the new year i don't want to move on um okay so how did the guy you were seeing at the time well there is nothing quite like saying to a man i'm pregnant it's not yours and then following it

with but it's not yours they almost like they've won the lottery but then they don't want to look too happy about it so then they look a bit concerned at the same time which which i think uh is it shows a decent man well you know um and and he was so decent this man that he was like don't worry we can still carry things on but then then as I started to show physical, I remember the day that he decided we should maybe not see each other for a while was the day I had to loosen my bra because my ribs had started expanding. Oh, God. So, you know, you don't want to become a fetish so uh I decided to bow out of dating uh until I was no longer carrying another man's child because you know get back into the

game well I I did have intermittent periods of pregnant tinder catfishing oh sure um where you just sort of went on for a swipe well fun. Well, I had a realisation. I was like, I'm not going to have any male affection or attention for nine plus months. And I think when you feel like something's taken away, you want it even more. Yeah. Not helped by the fact that pregnancy makes you inexplicably really horny. I've heard that. What is that about?

I've heard that. My best friend just had a baby and she said the same happens to Rachel in Friends does does it do you know means Rachel from Friends is a single mum and when I was pregnant I rewatched all those episodes and I realized something amazing about friends Rachel's a single mum Phoebe is a surrogate and Monica had IVF so actually it's such a great example of how families aren't traditional and how how the origins of children is all different and that's true probably one of the only progressive things about that show yeah

a brilliant a brilliant realization yeah that's really so I watched that whole that whole thing through whole new new eyes yeah when I was night feeding anyway so pregnant man I mean pregnant man so the man I was dating yes so I would when I was catfishing catfishing on tinder what do you mean did you have fake pictures and fake well actually I believe I don't you can probably tell, I believe it's called kitten fishing. Because I didn't use other people's photos. I used my photos, but the non-pregnant ones. Got it, okay. Kitten fishing?

Yeah. Like a diluted version. I think I just wanted to feel desirable because there is nothing, like I never realised how much I used my sexuality until it was essentially taken away from me. Some women say that about if they ever lose their hair or something as well and I think it makes total sense to me, to be honest. Like I was, my friend, my good friend Lorcan, who was my birth partner and also is Freddie's godfather now,

he was like, come on, come clubbing. You'll be just like the women on Spice World. I very much wasn't. And it was like, have you ever been to a nightclub in your day clothes and people just sort of look through you? That's quite Bristol, though. As a student, that was all the time. People didn't dress up.

It suddenly wasn't the case that I could use my sexuality to approach men or anything i was just this big homer simpson were you when you weren't i was very pregnant we went we went on a misjudged trip to ibiza when i was seven months pregnant oh my god that's so and i think i was the only woman on that beach with more than one person in her bikini. That's shocking. I did not, it was not good for the old self-esteem. Oh, bless you. But I did have these massive tits,

which I wish I could have made more use of. I guess that is one pro, isn't it? So when you're not catfishing and you're, what's the opposite? Just on the apps? After I'd had the baby. After i'd had the baby after you've had the baby yeah how do you so do you have pictures of freddie in your photos so um when when i first had him i was of the opinion that it would be a turn off for a man to think that

you're a parent i was naive and misjudged but that's how i felt at the time um i think i'd been conditioned to kind of believe that you know oh it's baggage and all that stuff because to be honest with you it has to be said that on dating apps i'm obviously looking i'm looking at guys but um if they have a picture with children they always go kids not mine or like yeah that's my godfather i'm not godfather godson no this is this is the thing right and they always put their height like six foot four because apparently that's not mine so i'd be like five foot four and the kid is mine see that's actually quite funny but yeah that is actually quite funny roman kemp what do you think um i think what i've what i didn't realize at the time was when you go on a date,

you're not predicting the future. All anyone wants is just to get on with somebody and see how it goes. But I think maybe before I had the baby, I would have been put off if a man had children. That's so ignorant to think back now, but I think I would have seen it as a complication potentially. So on your profile, when you first went back to dating properly after having freddie you had your pictures you had your bio you had no mention of the fact that you were a mother oh yeah would you

then go on the date and be like so by the way i have a son so i don't think it was lying i think it was careful truth editing it's not lying it's not lying but on match.com you have which i was on uh only only because i suddenly felt like i'm no longer young and fabulous i am now a grown-up i have to behave like yeah yeah mature from dating apps to dating websites yeah i really did feel like that i felt like if i'm on tinder i'm not i'm not in that category anymore i do that i can totally understand why you'd think that because Tinder especially has a reputation for being kind of sleazy, hookups. Like I would imagine that all the guys in there will probably be really mean to you or like if they think you're not just going to give them sex and be really easy. And, you know, I'm not surprised you felt like that if it's a slightly more complex situation. But I tried to have a brief spell in,

so they have three boxes, and it's like, already have children, want children. Oh, what's the other one? I can't remember the other one. Oh, don't have, obviously. Yeah. And I tried, already have no messages. Really?

Honestly, none. But then, life on match.com. Are you looking for guys around the same age? Yeah, I'm very open with my age gap you know yeah um but life was not fruitful in the already have bracket so um i i did tick the don't have and suddenly just just as an experiment yeah but then i ended up on my first day post childbirth freddie was only four months old and that's a very tiny baby but in mom land you feel like you've had him forever because you've had nine months of pregnancy plus four it's like

oh a year of just no dating so um my first day i said he said who are you living with and i said i'm living back at home which is already oh god right um and i said because I had a little boy a little boy a baby it's like yes is that a problem he's like well you could have mentioned it and I was like the me of now is like it's nothing to do with you do you want to date me or my baby like what is it to do with you yeah absolutely um at this stage you know obviously if things progress it has to become part of the fabric of your relationship but in those initial meetings it doesn't matter he was so aggressive about it and felt like offended oh he was so offended wait till you hear what he said next right so um he

sort of he relaxed a bit and took a sharp intake of breath like clicked his knuckles and went well you know actually thinking about, it's not a problem. We've all got skeletons in our closet. Take me, for example. I've got Crohn's disease. Oh, my gosh. He compared having a baby. You know what's really interesting? I think clearly these men,

they feed into this stigma of being a single parent when you're young. And with these stigmas, I always think, where does something like that come from? And I think it often comes from popular culture and not seeing that narrative enough in films and TV shows. I know you mentioned Friends,

but really- But no one noticed that at the time. No. But really, I can't think of any heroic single parent characters. All we've got is Vicky Pollard. Well, exactly. In films and TV shows.

And I think that exacerbates this perceived taboo parent characters all we've got is vicky pollard what exactly in films and tv shows and i think that exacerbates the tab you know this perceived taboo of someone telling someone that oh and also why is why is it like having a child as in your lifestyle and being a parent is seen as such a burden i remember when i got pregnant and my dad said we were all crying like oh my god what have you done your life is over my dad just said this is a baby have you ever met a baby you didn't love and adore and want you know have you ever met a person who's like i really regret having that baby no you know it's just never been negative in any way the only negative part was the anticipation because i was being fed all this stuff that oh my god your life's gonna be so

difficult it's gonna change it's gonna it has changed, but only for the better. Twas the season of chaos and all through the house, not one person was stressing. Holla differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. I'm Jessi Kirkshank, and on my podcast, Phone a Friend, I break down the biggest stories in pop culture. But when I have questions, I get to phone a friend. I phone my old friend, Dan Levy. You will not die hosting the Hills

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now wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com Yeah. So what are the most common myths and misconceptions around being a single mum and having a baby in your 20s? I think if we were going to go back to the dating misconceptions, there is a very strange male obsession with the post-childbirth vagina slash body. Oh my.

Really? Yeah, I think people just like it doesn't really work anymore so what what how has that manifested itself like literally i've had men on dates ask me if i can still breastfeed like yeah i know it's very strange but i think as a society we have a bit of an obsession with the post childbirth body i think people like i remember women are scrutinized in the media about oh my god look at kylie jenner's baby body post two weeks yeah and it's it is actually now more assumed that you have to look terrible and if you look sort of okay people will say to you oh you don't look

like you've had a baby like would i come up to you or you and say you look like you've had a baby have you not like to be honest with you i get it when guys offer me seats on the tube and I'm like, okay, I ate too much today, but I'll take the seat nonetheless. When you come back from Italy. Literally. I'll have a burrata, baby. Yeah, that's interesting.

But I think also, I almost kind of can't blame the guys because I think people don't talk about it enough. No, there's a lack of education. But it's such a backhanded compliment to be like, it's such a rollercoaster of a sentence. You look great for someone that's had a baby. You know? And I once had a...

But what do they expect? You can never tell. Look at the three of us looking here. Why would anyone expect that you would be able to tell who'd had a baby and who hadn't? Well, exactly. Because we're being fed constantly that, oh, it irreversibly changes your body necessarily.

You'll never be the same again. Yeah. And do it earlier enough and you will be the same again. Maybe with a few minor changes, but nothing a Wonderbra can't sort out it's absolutely fine um but once i was on a date well i was seeing a guy classic um and we slept together for the first time and he said do you know i was actually quite worried when i knew you'd had a son but but it's actually fine. And then he went, impressively so. Like, champagne for my vagina.

Oh my God, the worst part about that is that he thinks he's complimenting you. I know, but that's another backhanded compliment. Like, being a mother, it's like when people say, oh my God, you're doing so well in your career, considering. You know, everything has a suffix of yeah you shouldn't be we didn't expect this and you're an exception to the rule if you look normal and have a good job it's interesting isn't it people sort of because you have a baby people sort of expect that i don't know you somehow shouldn't be the same on so many levels as someone who hasn't had a baby.

It isolates you from the rest of society, which is so like, it's just horrific that that's the way that we're making people feel. I think being single and pregnant, it was like, hang on a minute. How can you be single and pregnant because you would have had to have sex but you're single so uh you have to be celibate because you're single like that really blew people's minds like that you could possibly get pregnant and not have a boyfriend it's astonishing like the level of intolerance that some people have to things like that so now on the dating apps yeah are you on the apps yes yes yes i dabble dabble in the apps excellent do you put in your profile that you are a mother oh yes so after crone's gate oh yes i very much added in a photo of me and freddie i don't have his face in it it's

a picture of us like in the swimming pool from behind so you can't see him at all but it's obvious that he is mine yeah well he is mine why did i add that yeah maybe don't use that and so generally would you say you get a positive response um i think it's a very good uh it weeds out the losers quite early on. And as someone who has a history of selecting perhaps not the best potential suitors, I think it's actually done me a bit of a favour, really. Yeah, to be honest with you, I can imagine it actually totally means that the guys who are just awful and won't treat you well and are only in it for one thing perhaps just will not apply yeah and although there is also this strange stereotype that all single

mothers are in easy lay and we're like a guaranteed thing yeah they think we're desperate i mean sometimes we are but we are we are sometimes um that's super interesting and so then how how do you find that then if you go on dates with guys are they ever sort of bit nervous to bring up Freddie oh no they're absolutely obsessed with finding out this conception circumstances but they do it in a way where it appears that they don't really they're not really fast so they'll be like so you'd be like two drinks in yeah and then it'll inevitably come up so um does freddie see much of his dad i think basically men are just terrified that i've got this ex

lurking which makes them feel generally emasculated and also sort of convinced i'm still in love with this person when actually we don't know this this person went very much awol he's totally out of the picture yeah i think he's in Australia. Last I heard. Do you think they're more threatened by the idea of this looming ex than Freddie? Yeah, as soon as they know that there's no looming ex, they...

But then I was seeing one guy who I was seeing him for quite a while, actually, and he ended up meeting Freddie very much as mummy's friend. And this guy just... he couldn't handle it he would go completely puce and sort of be like hi mate and sort of go to high five freddie who was probably like one year old at this time and had no idea he doesn't even know his nose is and he's like right and he just was so awkward and but i think i think that for for men that's just a maturity thing that guy is not

mature he's not mature enough to handle that what he perceives would be his responsibility because i suppose realistically i'd be in denial if i didn't know that it would be their responsibility if it worked out but like at the early stages of dating, who knows, you know? It's nothing to do with them. It's whether me and this person get on. It has nothing to do with my son at the early stages. Were you nervous to introduce that guy to Freddie? Or have you? I introduced, I made, that is the one thing that I think I have made mistakes about.

And I feel incredibly guilty about the fact that I have introduced certain men who I... Because I'm 27, like, I still am human. I still get completely blinded by infatuation and think things are going to be more serious than they are and get people wrong. I still misjudge relationships. I still trust too quickly. And I have had relationships where I felt they were going to definitely be long term.

So I have let them into Freddie's life. And I wish I hadn't. Really? Yeah, for sure. It's the only mistake. There's no mistake in being a single parent. I've no problem that me and Freddie are a family, just us two. But I don't want to cause disruption to Freddie's life.

And I think there have been instances where I potentially have. But I've learned from them. And I'm still in my 20s. I'm still learning. And luckily, Freddie won't remember those ones. So I just need to not do it again. I need to actually learn from that. And do you think, so is there like a time period that you would set into?

Well, I have been, I did write an article saying six months minimum. Right. You can't say things like that. It's so hard. It's really hard to set like a definite number. But I wish I could. I wish I could use my head a bit more.

But it's so hard because I completely agree with you. When you first start seeing someone, it's that blinding infatuation. And you do make the wrong judgments of people. You think they're all the one. Yeah, and you decide. Do you do that as well? Because I do do that. It's all I do.

It's all I've ever done with men. You do do it more than me, actually. I do it all the time. You see red flags and ignore them. You ignore them. You tell yourself little lies to think, oh, but that's just because of X, Y and Z. And then, you know, a couple months down the line, if it even gets to that. But that's where having a child, I cannot make that mistake anymore.

And I have made that mistake. And I think that, you know, we talk about, oh, is it different dating with a child? In no other respect apart from that, you have to think for both of you you're not just thinking for yourself anymore you have to be able to look beyond it's all gone a bit deep hasn't it yeah it's fascinating though have you dated any other single parents oh no because they're really boring is that a misconception about single dads? No, no, I'm joking. No, my first relationship after I had Freddie was with a single dad. And he... A dilf, if you will. He was definitely a dilf.

There are so many dilfs around. Oh, I love a dilf. Martin Kemp. Roman Kemp's getting a lot of airtime on this episode. Oh no, forget Roman. Yeah, and the thing is people say oh you should go out with a single dad you know they're you'll you'll be compatible with them but what i find is they just want to talk about children and circumstances and their ex-wives and their

this and and actually when i date i want to date like you guys want to date i want to feel like i'm in notting hill standing in front of a boy, asking her to love him. Whatever. You know what I mean? And also, I imagine that the majority of single dads are in actually a different situation. Oh, yeah, they're all divorced. Exactly.

They're divorced or something, and they might share custody of the kid with the mum, whereas you look after Freddie, and the dad's not in the picture at all yeah when it comes to yeah but i wouldn't ever say i wouldn't date this i wouldn't date that because i think that's what people say about me i wouldn't date someone with kids and i probably was guilty of it before but the whole thing i've learned from all this experience is you can't judge any circumstance and And I just want to date someone who I have a connection with, who I have a laugh with, who brings out the best in me.

And whether they're a dad or not is completely irrelevant. No, it's about who the person is. I would quite like to combine families so that I don't have to give birth again because I wasn't too hot on that. So, no, not the one. I've heard that after you have a baby, then you look back and it was like rose-tinted glasses

and you forget all the bad bits. No. You're joking. Amy's face has just dropped. Who said that? I've heard that's the only reason people have second and third and maybe fourth babies. That person's a liar.

Oh, Christ. Okay, good. Childbirth, very appealing. It's more the post childbirth you know you have to give birth twice what so you get the baby and then the afterbirth and then the bayo tapestry of sewing christ everything's just uh squeezing downstairs yeah but it does recover well as that man said impress impressively so. Wow. Wow.

That's amazing. So would you say the sort of, I don't know, I don't want to say difficulty, but like the thing you come up against most is the stigma. I think the difficulty that I come up with the most comes from myself. Because in my last relationship, I was convinced he would prefer me if I wasn't a mum. And that was just wrong. And I was completely obsessed with it going on. And I felt so guilty because Freddie is my entire life. He's the most wonderful, perfect little person.

But I'm like, this person will never love him like I do. And it just goes around in my head. You feel guilty for that. You feel convinced of the fact that they would prefer if you didn't have children and then I brought it up with the guy and he said I love you I don't know Freddie so I can't say I love him but you are who you are because you had Freddie because of the way your life has gone and you wouldn't be you without him and it's you that I love and that's what it is isn't it it's you love the person and whatever the person's been through whatever they have part of who that

person yeah exactly and I wouldn't be the same without that so is it a factor when you're dating are you thinking about how well this guy would get on with Freddie and if you yeah yeah I do you can't not like I used to not but then i had that really awkward high five freddie boyfriend who was just horrendous and i thought but that but that again that was his problem and he was obviously the wrong person for me like the right person for me is gonna really appreciate freddie and me and the circumstance and the whole package we're just a little two for one deal i love that and the thing is actually when you we're just a little two for one deal I love that and the thing is actually when you come to thinking about how well someone would get on with

Freddie it's kind of like when I'm dating a guy and I'm like oh I think my brother and sister would love him and you think about your parents don't you would their parents go with my parents you kind of want to like a whole unit yeah that's all it is it's inevitable all right so to wrap up what would your tips be for other single parents navigating the dating scene never accept the word baggage excellent very good so offensive think of more bonus and anyone who uses baggage is a whole nother b word that i don't know if i can say probably not okay i won't say it but we all know what it is um another tip let me think of a tip what's a tip in the baggage one is a good i think i got another tip where we don't as you may have learned from crones gate never hide the fact you are a parent because you have nothing to hide.

You should be proud that you've done this thing and even more proud if you're doing it on your own. It's amazing. And you've created such a wonderful life for not only yourself but your child, like you're bossing it. So why would you not want to shout that out loud? Absolutely. Absolutely. Fantastic. All right. sing it so why would you not want to shout that out loud absolutely absolutely fantastic

all right well what we will do now is move on to a quick dating disaster to finish off thank you for sending this one in and here goes i'll get straight to it and my god is it a doozy this is from a guy by the way I should just clarify because more often than not we have stories from girls this is from a guy I go on I asked my best friend if she could set me up with someone and because she is amazing she did the friend she she set me up with wanted to meet up beforehand just so she had some idea of who I was and I agreed we met up had the general chat about family and background stuff, got to know each other a little and it was awkward but fine. I wrote it off to

nerves and asked to go on a proper date. After the most overtly dropped hints I have ever received, winky emojis were involved as well. I just thought she was interested and I enjoyed the compliment and had nothing better going on so why not? We decided to go to a movie. We met up for a bit of a chat beforehand and it was even more awkward than the meet-up. Immensely awkward. And the worst part is I could tell that she was under the impression that things were going really well. But the conversation was just stale and stilted. She was a nice person but there was just nothing there romantically.

This is only the beginning, as then it was time for the movie. We sat side by side in silence and I enjoyed the movie but I was on edge the entire time. After the movie, I just wanted to get out of there, and I made polite small talk on the way out of the cinema. I tried to begin to make excuses that I had to go home, knowing full well that there would not be a second date, which I had planned on communicating politely to her later. But then her mum calls. The girl I was on the date with was 18, I was 19 and still lived at home so her mum was calling to pick her up which was all well and good when I hear her mum say that the family is having a barbecue. Brackets, we are Aussie so this still tracks. And then the words that would lead to

disaster. Would he like to come for dinner? I think, of course she'll say no. It's the first date. And even, even if she thinks it went well, there's no way she could even contend with the idea. But no, she turns to me and repeats the question. I make excuses saying, oh no, it's late. I should probably get home. But as soon as I try to make my case,

she turns back to the phone and says yes. She says yes, he'll come over for dinner with her whole family on the first date. So we wait in silence for her mum to get there as I freak out considering what the next few hours will bring. Her mum pulls up and we talk for the 20 minute drive back to her place to then eat dinner with her mum, dad and older sister in what may have been the most awkward few hours of my life. Not only that, her family were absolutely lovely and there I was eating their food at their table with the girl I was about to not go on a second date with,

which may have been obvious to everyone at the table except her. Eventually, finally, I take my leave and trust me, there was no second date. Aww, that's actually like so sad but awkward i had that happen to me once i went on a horrific date with a man who he kept commenting on like how women give short men a hard time and then he suddenly took his shoe off and was wearing like a heel like but only on one foot did he have one leg yeah yeah yeah no yeah but no problem you know but very aggressively and then i thought this is not going well and then he'd booked to go for pizza with all his

friends afterwards and made me go and all his friends thought i was like trying to like chirps him up and were giving me like an interrogation about this man I'd never wanted to see again. That's so ox. But do you know what I would say to that guy? Yeah. My mum taught me something very wise. You should always go on three dates with people. Because on the first date people can be so nervous. And actually nervousness can come across in all different ways.

I think everyone deserves a second date even if it didn't go well. I really do. My mum says that to me but I never do it. I think everyone deserves a second date, even if it didn't go well. I really do. My mum says that to me, but I never do it. I think you should do it. I never do it because time is money, people. But you never know, because you know yourself, like, when you get nervous, you can be so different,

and some people, you just need to give them a second chance. Give her a second chance. I mean, what were her family like? Were they all right? That was technically a second chance, chance though because they had had the pre-date date oh yeah i also just think it's quite funny he was trying to say it was too late but also how late could it have been if they were only just about having the barbecue then you know i think that the being different on a the three date thing is really interesting because i actually

this happened to me the other day i was on a date it wasn't a third date it was longer than that like a sixth date or something and the guy was telling me that he thought i was really modest and that's not a quality that my friends used to describe me i'm not saying i'm arrogant but i mentioned this to my friends and they were like that's really weird that's not that's not a quality that i would use to describe you at all and i think that comes from nerves yeah and i. No, but I think that shows that he's not the right guy because clearly you couldn't relax into your true arrogant self. Well, that too.

But I think it's funny how nerves really can change who you are. And if you think about people that are your really good friends, I find a lot of them made terrible first impressions, you know? Yeah, actually. And it's actually a bit of a slow burn and now they're some of my best friends. So I can but you need to give people a bit more of a chance yeah we get people wrong all the time one of my best friends told me that when she first met me she was like christ who on earth is this overly loud person in a pink fluffy jacket

and now we're best friends see but at first she was not so taken with me i didn't realize at the time but oh well she came to her senses as they all do i'm sure hi amber um no but i do think this is a very awkward situation i also thought it was quite funny that he said we sat in silence in the cinema well duh like i went on a cinema date recently when and i knew i wanted to hold this guy's hand but my hand just kept going so clammy oh i and I knew I wanted to hold this guy's hand but my hand just kept growing so clammy. Oh, I get very clammy.

But you have to hold the hand for like two and a half hours. It's inevitable. I find it weird holding hands in the cinema. I'm not 14 anymore. Why is my hand growing clammy? Hand, why are you letting me down? I don't particularly see the allure of holding someone's hand in the cinema.

Because I was trying to let him know that I like it. I just think it's awkward and forced and forced yeah well actually retrospectively it very much was and next time i won't be doing it yeah i'm not much of a hand holder i'm not much of a cinema date goer no i think a cinema date is the date you go on when you don't really want to be on the day because you don't talk to them yeah i think i think in the early stages it's maybe not the one but i think later on if you're like okay we see each other all the time and actually we just i want to see this film you want to see this film like going to cinema with your friends um then maybe but not a first date no not a first date or maybe a second day yeah when you're still getting to know someone

that's like when you've run out of things to talk about and then you go to the cinema so you have something to talk about well it's if it's cinema and a meal, which theirs was, but unintentionally. And then you stop going to the cinema and just watch Netflix. And chill. Roman Kemp? Roman! Great, we'll send this episode to Roman

and make sure he listens. This was unofficially sponsored by Roman oh guys we're out of time that is it please please please if you enjoyed today's episode please give us a subscribe give us a rating give us a nice review and buy my book as well I was getting to that okay um hurry up yeah. Please buy Amy's book. Yeah, anyway, I've said that bit about rating and stuff now. Do you want to say a thing about social media? Yeah, I'll say a thing about social media.

We love social media. It is great because... I don't know if you do love it. You keep deleting the social media apps. Yeah, I have deleted the social media apps because I'm really cool. I'm too cool for social media. Anyway, please email us your dating disasters at millennial.love at independent.co.uk or you can send them to us on the social medias,

but not me because I don't check them because I'm too cool, but send them to Rachel at millennial underscore love, that is our Instagram, or you could send them to our individual Instagram accounts. Rachel's is Rachel underscore Hosey, mine is Olivia Petter eight, but you know, preface, your message might not be seen by me. And, yeah, everything will be kept anonymous.

So, really, no one's a loser here. No, all winners all round. We also have a Facebook group, which is facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash millennials are love. Amy, thank you so much for joining us. And do remind the listeners, when the time this comes out,

your book will be out, won't it? It will be out there. Confessions of single mum confessions of a single mum also available let me start that again confessions of a single mum also available on audiobook if you've enjoyed this husky voice of mine um and yeah july the 12th is our published date lovely and where amazon waterstones everywhere you like really any good bookshop yeah any good bookshop um and where some rubbish ones too yeah the awful ones the lot where can the listeners find you so yeah my instagram is solo.mama and my twitter handle is amy nicks underscore brilliant lovely everyone give am a follow. Everyone go and enjoy her book

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