Love Lives - #46 Holiday romances and when to say 'I love you' with Maya Jama

Episode Date: August 10, 2018

Summer lovin' eh? Sure, it can be a blast. And it always happens pretty fast too. But for most of us, holiday romances don't play out as rom-coms - from Grease to The Lizzie McGuire Movie - would have us believe. (We're still waiting to go to Rome, meet our international pop-star doppelgängers and fall in love with an Italian who'll drive us around on a Vespa).This week, we're joined by TV and radio presenter Maya Jama to discuss the reality of holiday romances - do they actually happen? Do they ever end well? And why do we fall in love more easily when abroad?We also discuss the ever problematical dilemma of when to say 'I love you' to a new partner for the first time. How do you know you're ready? Is there such a thing as too soon? And what do you do if someone says they love you but you don't feel the same? Follow us on Instagram to stay up-to-date! https://www.instagram.com/millennial_loveSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Breaking news happens anywhere, anytime. Police have warned the protesters repeatedly, get back. CBC News brings the story to you as it happens. Hundreds of wildfires are burning. Be the first to know what's going on and what that means for you and for Canadians. This situation has changed very quickly. Helping make sense of the world when it matters most. Stay in the know. CBC News.

Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, the Independent Lifestyle Desk's weekly podcast on love, dating and relationships. Hosted by me, Rachel Hosey, Assistant Lifestyle Desk's weekly podcast on love, dating and relationships, hosted by me, Rachel Hosey, Assistant Lifestyle Editor, and me, Olivia Petter, Lifestyle Writer. Dating today is a world away from what it was even just 10 years ago. With dating apps, millennials are finding it harder to meet people than ever before. And even when we do, who's to say we won't be ghosted, breadcrumbed or zombied? So that's why we decided to launch Millennial Love as two long-time singletons in their 20s, talking candidly about all of the things everyone is doing but not always willing to admit.

Today we are thrilled to welcome TV and radio presenter Maya Jammer. Hey. Hey. Hello. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. Would you like to tell the listeners, I imagine most people know

who you are but if they don't why don't you tell them a little bit about who you are, what you do and how you know. Who am I? A brief life story. So yeah I'm a TV and radio presenter. I'm 23 years old. I started when I was 17 on YouTube doing silly videos and hidden camera pranks and stuff and then kind of went on to being an online presenter. Worked in football and online videos and hidden camera pranks and stuff and then kind of went on to being an online presenter worked in football and online videos and then went over to music and entertainment worked for mtv for a couple of years then moved to perform moves moved to for music and speed fast forward everything else i'm on radio one now and i do random little entertainment shows and jokey things and a podcast actually like you girls a brilliant podcast yeah it's doing really well it's kind of like similar vibes we did have an episode about love and dating and everything like

that the l word was one episode it's called when life gives you melons so yeah if you want to listen to it fun name it's about boobs it's not really it's like about women topics for women by women and just very you know like you're having a chat with your girls in your front room absolutely it's totally our vibe big fans um okay so shall we do a dating debrief yep what's been going on this week so actually when we're when this episode goes out i will be sunning myself in the south of france lovely looking for a holiday romance which is what we're talking about later but probably failing no i won't be looking for i'm going away with seven of my best girlfriends very excited that's going to be so much fun it's going to be very fun but in terms of dating stuff

I read something really interesting today on Vogue so they've now got they've hired Eva Wiseman who's one of my favourite journalists as an agony aunt and the first column that she did for them was about dating someone who isn't over their ex yet. And she wrote something really interesting.

She said the idea of getting over someone is actually quite a damaging concept and puts quite a lot of pressure on people. And actually it's really almost impossible to date someone and then suddenly just wipe them from your mind. Like that's not really ever gonna happen. And it's unrealistic. And she was advising this person, well, who was dating someone who wasn't over their ex she was

saying you know it's better to think of someone as a learning experience and just take from it you know what you can improve on in your next relationship and you know cherish the good memories that you had together and don't feel like you need to just banish them from your mind because that's gonna put too much pressure on you I think it's really interesting concept because the whole idea of being over someone or not over someone makes it sound like there are two it's very black and white like it's suddenly gonna flick a switch and you're suddenly gonna be oh now I'm over them whereas I imagine it's actually more like murky

water like gray area for a long time yeah i think it probably changes with each person and whoever broke up with who it kind of has a massive impact on how you're gonna feel like if they left you then it's gonna take you a lot longer to get over them than them to get over you because they've already kind of made up their mind yeah before they let you go but yeah i don't know i've got a really bad memory so i feel like in time i will definitely just forget about somebody if they were someone i wanted to forget about. But, yeah, I don't know. I've never put any pressure on myself to forget somebody. I've just kind of moved on with whatever I was doing.

I think people feel pressure both ways as well. I was talking to a friend recently who'd broken up with a boyfriend of, well, years. And it was sort of six weeks and she was like, yeah, I think I'm fine now. But I think, you know, I think maybe it's easier to move on if the relationship's kind of been bad for a while. yeah definitely circumstantial definitely yeah but I think it's it's a very interesting idea anyway what's been going on with you Rach so last week I told you

about my bad first date well my good first date that then turned bad this week I'm going to tell you about a good first date but sadly it was not my own but I want to tell you about um uh a very good first date that one of my best friends went on because it's kind of instilled my faith in love um so she met this guy like out on a Saturday night and um she was very drunk and they snogged And she doesn't remember a great deal, apart from that he was hot, and they switched numbers. And, you know, it's not the most traditional start to a love story, but it's also slightly refreshing to be a break from We Met on an App.

And so then they messaged and messaged and messaged over the week, and then they decided to go out. And it turned out they had what she said was the best first date of her life in that she was just okay he stayed over but I don't had sex but if they did sort of irrelevant and it just sounded like they were so comfortable with each other straight away and it just it felt like they'd known each other forever and they were both totally on the same page and saying that they liked each other and there were none of these games and none of this like playing hard to get and they were both just open and comfortable and she was like this feels like nothing I've ever

felt before and because it sort of sounds it sounded to me when she told me about it that it was like a rom-com and I was like this is so nice because I didn't think it ever really happened that you know you hear these stories of like, Oh, we went on one date. And from that point we were smitten and we just wanted to spend all our time together. And I was like, does that happen?

Does it? Cause it hasn't happened to me. I don't know. I've not really dated like that. I've been on like one date date. That is somebody that you're getting to know. Yeah. I mean,

I'm always friends with my boyfriends before they become actual boyfriends. And that takes out the whole dating element. That's so nice. I think. Yeah. Yeah. I always say this thing. I don always friends with my boyfriends before they become my actual boyfriends. And that takes out the whole dating element. That's so nice, I think, because then it just feels organic. Yeah, I always say this thing. I don't, if a boy, if I was single, if a boy like approaches me to like flirt with me

or ask for my number or whatever, they're already not my type. Like I don't like forward boys in that sense. Like I like to have to either be the one that kind of flirts a bit first or be friends and there be a basis of it. I like don't like the idea of a boy being like, hey, how do you do it?

That's so interesting. I was saying with my friends recently, because one of my friends messaged me today and went, I got chatted up when I was buying loo roll today. And I was like, okay, that's really random. But also, what happened? Are you going to go out with him? And then she was like, no, I realized he was asking weird things.

So I decided he was a weirdo. And I was like, I think I don't want to discourage anyone from chatting anyone up. But I think it's so rare these days that often the guys or girls who do approach you in public are slightly off. Yeah, it actually happened to me yesterday. I don't think I told you about this. I was walking to work like seven in the morning.

You got chatted up on the commute? Well, I didn't get chatted up. I got sort of chased after. Oh, Christ. I was walking out of the tube. Noticed this guy. We kind of smiled at each other. Then just, you know, I mean, I'm a smiley person.

I always fall in love on the tube. Well, I didn't. So do I. I didn't fall in love on this particular occasion. I was like, yeah, hello. We're both on the same train. Anyway, I then walked out of the tube. Not really my type, but, you know, not hideous looking.

That makes me sound awful anyway i was walking towards the office and then this guy just like literally runs stands in front of me and blocks my path and was like excuse me and like i'm listening to my music so i took my headphones off he was like hi um i just i just wanted to say i think i think you're really pretty and i was like oh wow um thank you so much and then he was like okay bye and then walked away and I was like that was nice it was quite sweet yeah I like that I think it's cute yeah there were a lot of approachy weirdos I actually had an experience ages ago like probably like seven years ago six years ago and I was on the train and it was one of those really busy trains where everybody squashed armpit to armpit and I was sat down and it was actually my birthday

so I had like made a bit more effort with my hair and makeup and this guy who was just so lovely and like handsome nice well put together whatever like pushed his way through to stand like in front of me and I was sat down and he's like sorry I never do this but I've just noticed you and you're so like lovely I just wanted to know if I could have your number and I was single at the time and everything but because I was so embarrassed by everybody around hearing what he'd said and like just being in that situation that I just said I had a boyfriend. And that after, I was like, why did you do that? He was so polite and so nice. And you are single.

But because of the pressure of everybody looking around to see what she's going to say and just being in this intimate situation and I still had seven stops to go, I was just like, oh God, I've got a boyfriend. That's so funny. I've seen that happen to people on the tube before as well. And I, obviously, everyone's listening. It's too much pressure, I think. Yeah, I think that in public, in public especially on it's worse it's bad enough when you're on a tube with

your mate and you're having a conversation and the whole rest of the carriage is quiet and then everyone can just hear what you're talking about but i think the being i mean again kudos for him and for doing it in a nice way yeah and actually not being creepy but i mean another issue is the fact that when we reject guys if we don't want to go out with them we often do that I have a boyfriend even though it's not true it's the quickest way out it's trying to I think it's a way of trying to not hurt their feelings to make them think like I mean if I was single of course I would but I'm not but I also think there's a slight issue it's like sometimes they don't accept no for an answer

if you just say I'm not in I don't fancy I don't want to go out with you and they sometimes respect it if they think

another man has like laid claim to you anyway that's another issue let's do bio of the week

we had slim pickings this week I don't know yeah I didn't find one but you found one I haven't really been swiping but this week. I don't know. Yeah, I didn't find one. But you found one. I haven't really been swiping, but... Neither have I. I don't know what we've been doing.

I don't know what we've been doing. God knows. Not dating. What have you been swiping on? Bumble or Hinge. Hinge. Swipe on Hinge. No, but...

I didn't even know what Hinge was. I only found out a few weeks ago. I mean, I've spoken a lot about it on this podcast, so I won't go too much into it. But it's very different. There's no swiping. You get a lot more information about yourself. Okay.

Like height. But I think that makes you a bit too discerning because now I'll be like, hmm, five foot nine. Yeah. Which is really bad. How tall are you? I'm only five foot seven.

Oh, okay. But if I'm normally like six foot, yeah, fine. But anything below that, I'm like, nah. Which is so mean. I know, it happens. It's not like you can tell when you meet someone. Oh, yeah, she's 5'10". No.

No, but you can tell if in heels you'll be taller than them. True. And that's what you don't always want to be true. I know. It's so stupid. We shouldn't care about that. But it's been ingrained in us to think that a man has to be tall and we have to be small. It's very silly.

Anyway, here's our bio of the week. Yeah. From a man called Sanket, who is 26. He says, I'm an architect, sometimes cynical and sarcastic, but in an uplifting, positive sort of way. I enjoy travelling, skiing, rock climbing,

eating out, films, board games, exhibitions, meeting new people. But most of all, I enjoy listing things. I was wondering where that was going. I was like, Christ, this is so cringe. Oh, bless him but I quite liked it I thought it was quite sweet yeah quite cute

it's not I think it's quite hard because I think sometimes people actually do want to kind of like put all their hobbies and interests to see if there's something

in common with the people you're swiping with but it's kind of hard not to in a cringe way so I actually thought that was quite cute it's cute

but the things that he says I mean travelling yes rock climbing maybe not eating out yeah films yeah exhibitions ball games meeting new people surely those are pretty ubiquitous things that we all like doing yeah it's hard to write a bio i don't know what i'd put in mine like because you won't want to put too much because then it sounds like you're really keen but then you don't want to put too little because then it's like are you

boring yeah it's really hard we've played around with them quite a lot we actually wrote bios for each other not that long ago mine was very funny for rachel rachel's for mine i didn't put much effort in um let's not go back down that route yeah successful okay so the first topic we're going to talk about today is the l-bomb. It's when do you say I love you in a relationship? Now, I'm going to put it out there. I've never done it. I've never said I love you because actually, I've never been in love.

There you go. Do you know, actually, I remember years ago when I was in my first job after uni, so I was like, what was I, 23 or something? I don't know. Oh, maybe I was 24. I don't know. And there was like some,

one of my colleagues was doing this like poll on something about saying I love you. And it came up and everyone was like, oh, how old were you when you first said you'd been in love, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, I've never been in love. And everyone was like, oh my God, what? And I was like, is it that weird?

I don't think it, I mean, I've never said it either. Really? No, never. Oh, I don't know. But then I, I've never said it either. Really? No, never. Oh, I don't know. But then I'm like relationship girl. It depends what your life experience has been like. Yeah, completely. I think, though, just from what friends have said,

when they're like 17, 16, they get into their first relationships and they say I love you because that's what they feel like they have to do. Yeah. Or it's just the most that you've felt for another person. So they think that it's love and then they come into relationships like at my age when they're 24 and they're like oh god i was not in love with that person no no but you know what like lots of people say that you will actually never experience feelings as intense as you do when

you're a teenager and it's your first love. And I think you definitely don't write off teenage feelings. Like, they can be very real and very intense. Yeah, I think what you feel is real and intense, but the actual reality of it is this, like, that's not what I want in love when you're that age. So you are, I think, definitely, you're way more dramatic when you're a teenager and you're way more, like, open with how you feel

and you're just more like, ah! When you feel something, especially love, you'd be like, I love you! Like, around and yeah run away together or whatever it is but then you will look back and probably compare the relationship that you had as a teenager to an adult relationship and be like okay that wasn't really love even though i felt like it was and i felt all these actual emotions it's just not what i should be in love with maybe more than just completely disregarding what it was in the first place i think it's interesting because i'm pretty sure that like no two loves are the same right so how do you actually know if you're in love i don't know i always think like with love it's just like

you everybody sees it a little bit different i suppose and you do definitely love people differently like you don't love your best friend the same way you love your boyfriend you don't love your mom the same way but you love them all it's just different loves but I think I don't know for me love is like when you just want to I don't know you care about someone just as much if not more than you care about yourself and you want to see them happy and do it and being around them makes you feel like nothing else matters and all that like cliche bit it is cliche but it's true it's that you want to be around someone that you feel like you can be yourself with, someone who brings out the best in you.

And you're just happy around them, and you kind of just feel like, ah, like that kind of feeling. Sounds nice. I agree. So I've never said it either. I don't think I've been in love. I think I have been immersed in infatuation. So, like, short-lived,-lived intense feelings of like passion for someone

that maybe are a bit more teenage like rather than the sort of love the romantic equivalent to the love that i have for my closest friends and my family i've never felt that in a romantic relationship before yeah people you know talk about the l bomb and it being a really big deal should it be a big deal to when to say i love you when you're in a new relationship i don't know i said i love you first in my last one but it wasn't like straight out like hey love you it was like oh i think i love you like it was like you're nervous to say it no but i'm just like quite yeah i'm not the same of like this quote that i always say and tweet and stuff that says if you love somebody you should tell them because hearts are often left broken with words left unspoken oh that's good and then

from like even in school if I fancied somebody I'd always just tell them I fancied them because even if they don't actually fancy you back then they're going to think about you and then you're not wasting any time and it's like you'll get your answer sooner rather than admiring from afar you're just like look I fancy you if you like me back then perfect if you don't then that's fine but i'm just going to tell you i like you and you can do with that information what you like and then it's either going to go one way or the other and you're not wasting any time same with love a bit such a sensible approach yeah like we should just all be more upfront about our feelings shouldn't we i agree i think i think if you like someone just tell them i used to do that as well when i was at school and uni. If I fancied someone and I wouldn't I wasn't feeling like they fancied me, I would just be like, by the way, like quite like you.

Sometimes it goes down like a lead balloon, but sometimes it works. It takes balls, though, because you're it's it's scary to put yourself out there because you think the other person might not feel the same. it's scary to put yourself out there because you think the other person might not feel the same. And I think when you're in a relationship, people are scared to be the first person to say, I love you, because if the other person doesn't say it back, that maybe doesn't feel awesome.

And you sort of think if you say it too early, you don't want to scare them off. I think you can kind of gather. Like, I don't know, from personal experience, I feel like you'd know if the other person's feeling mutual to you whether or not they've said it or not it's kind of obvious when you're in that stage of like you're both equally as obsessed with each other

and you're spending all this time together and you call each other all the time and you're speaking all the time and they're like you're very much in a love zone and it's quite obvious so i always get quite shocked when somebody's been like oh i told them they love me and i told them i love them and they replied like oh no like uh and i'm just like how did you not know but then maybe that's ignorant of me because i haven't been in that situation but i feel like there's a vibe you know if somebody loves you or not like it's not a small thing it's a big deal it's not something you just fling out on a whim and i think you wouldn't necessarily feel like you loved that person if you didn't intrinsically feel like they loved you back yeah you know i just would hope so anyway yeah we discussed last week how a spark and a connection in the early stages of dating isn't

always mutual like you can think there's a spark and a connection the other person doesn't and i don't know if the same goes for love because i'm pretty sure you can be in love with someone who doesn't love you back well yes but if you're love, which we have also spoken about on this podcast. But if you're in a relationship with the person you love, I don't know. I was thinking, and you have to think about as well, what do you do if your partner tells you they love you, but you're not sure if you're there yet? How do you play it?

What do you do? You can't be like, thank you. No, you don't say thank you but i think unless you're an idiot i think i think you say you just you just say i'm not ready to to say it back you just be honest i know it's awful but you can't say i mean you could sort of say thank you i'm trying to think if i was actually in that situation i think if i felt like i could potentially love them very soon if it was leading to love but I just wasn't ready yet and I knew that there was potential to be really happily ever after with them then I'd probably just be like love you too but just not make a big deal out of it and then swiftly move on but if it was like no you know what I like you but it's definitely definitely

not enough and you're way ahead then I'd be like I just think it's a bit soon then you should yeah I think then you should clarify if you think that they're miles ahead of you yeah then yeah I agree is there an issue or could it be a like a problem if people say it too soon in a relationship if people sort of jump the gun and because I think you know what a lot of people do that then actually kind of regret is they say it when they're drunk they're like oh my god i love you that happens when people say i like you and they're drunk as well we're just like oh yeah like confess their fancy and it's like yeah those the words but um i don't know i think i think it's very easy for it to slip out when you're drunk and then the next morning you'll sort of be like oh god did i actually say that

last night i hope they didn't hear me maybe i'll just forget about it well we can't keep talking about love island but we did see sort of megan say to wes in bed one night like i think i love you but then she was sort of the next day like oh i didn't mean that what i said you know yeah take it back you get caught up in the moment sometimes and you're just like oh because you can feel like you love someone just because you fancy them so much and everything's so lovely you're like oh it must be love and then when you actually sit back you're like no come on it's too soon or it's just not it's not that it makes you feel vulnerable i think because you're like putting your heart out there and that's really scary because we we're all i think a bit scared about putting our feelings out there

and sort of laying ourselves bare and that is scary terrifying and i do actually think i do actually think there are different types of love sort of like we said earlier i think unrequited love which you mentioned is a very different feeling to love when you're in a relationship because when it's reciprocated you feel a bit more validated with it you feel more secure yeah in that love that you have for that person whereas unrequited love i think a large part of it is all about getting carried away with the thoughts in your own head and a lot of it is probably fantasy yeah i was gonna say it was the season of chaos and all through the house not one person was stressing holla

differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. I'm Jessie Kirkshank, and on my podcast, Phone a Friend, I break down the biggest stories in pop culture. But when I have questions, I get to phone a friend. I phone my old friend, Dan Levy. You will not die hosting the Hills after show.

I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know what thirsty meant until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like a no. That's what my grandma's on thank god phone a friend with jesse crookshank is not available on facebook it's out now wherever you get your podcasts a cast helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com a-cast.com definitely it's quite interesting

a stat we found that more than 50% of people wait until after three months to say I love you I feel like we sort of need some more detail

I hear like three months of what three months of seeing each other I just think like it's so circumstantial because if you met somebody abroad

and you were living abroad for a year or whatever and theyantial because if you met somebody abroad and you were living abroad for a year or whatever and they were abroad too and you met and then you were staying in the same hotel and ended up spending 24 hours a day with them for the next two weeks literally in and in in and out you would eventually be like oh i love you because you're spending so much time whereas if you're in london and you're seeing somebody and you're going out but you see them every friday and saturday or something can you speak a little bit during the week that would naturally take a lot longer because you're not spending as much time and it's going to take longer for the bond to build but that's why on love island when they do say I love

you I'm like I kind of get it because you live with them for three months like living with anybody for three months living with somebody for a week you know more about them than you will just visit them every two days or something yeah sharing a bed every night yeah it's intimate yeah super intense so yeah i don't think there's a time limit on love i think just when it feels when you feel it i don't believe in love at first sight though i don't think that's the thing no i think you can lust and you can be infatuated and all that stuff but you don't love someone until you actually know that i agree i don't i don't think really believe in that either do you you believe in love at first sight, Rach? I mean, I sort of would like to,

but how can it possibly, how? Like how? It can't. It can't. Logically, it doesn't make sense. No, like it's a lovely idea. And I sort of have, I've definitely like seen someone and felt like very intense feelings.

I'm like, you look perfect. You are perfect. I'll have one of you. I was like, please. You look like you're exactly what i'm looking for i'm going to kidnap you the creepy face yeah like so creepy thank god this is a podcast um but yeah then obviously like if i were ever to speak to that person they could actually be horrible or an idiot or like absolutely not what i think they are in my head anyway so they maybe have love with the idea of who you're looking at yeah yeah um but no it's not even really love how can it can

be love of course it's not love it's not okay i'm gonna say love at first sight no no not a thing do you guys think there is a stigma um if you're in a heterosexual couple of the woman saying i love you before the man i don't think there is no I actually don't I I know that I would I would feel vulnerable saying it first anyway but that's nothing to do with gender that's just because I I wouldn't I wouldn't know whether I want to say it to someone without knowing for sure that they feel it too yeah I don't know I'd have never felt that I'm always just like you meh, you know. But I think that's good

because I think it's sort of, it comes down to the idea of like, these kind of quite backward stereotypes of like, the guy has to ask the girl out. And, you know, like, no. Yeah, none of that. The only one of those kind of things that I'm still a bit like,

okay, I would really want them to propose to me, not me propose to them. That's the only one. It's like the ultimate tradition like whatever that's all everything's changed but i would still prefer to be just because i've got ideas of how i want to be engaged and stuff rather than the actual like thought of it yeah what a nice special engagement rather than me have to think of it i know i think like even the most progressive women i think most straight women want the proposal

and the man getting down on one knee. It's just what you fantasise about, I suppose. When you're thinking of marriage as a child, you're like, oh, and then I could propose to you on this tower or on a hill or whatever it is. I agree, I agree with you. But recently, I think it was Greg James' girlfriend that proposed to him.

And I think that's great, but it was Greg James' girlfriend that proposed to him and I think that's great but it was such a big news story that she had been the one to propose to him and that bothered me that that was such a revolutionary thing I get it but it's just I don't think it shouldn't be news Oh my god that's so funny you say that

you know Greg James' podcast and he goes shouldn't be news that's like a segment they do I've never watched it, Rachel's mildly obsessed with Greg James' podcast and he goes shouldn't be news that's like a segment they do is it yeah never mind never mind Rachel's mildly obsessed with Greg James

only mildly obsessed definitely not my dream dude if you get signal is it because he's really tall is that why maybe

no there's that meme that goes there's this meme that I always get tagged in by my friends that basically just goes do I fancy him or is he just tall and I always oh my god that's such a thing isn't it like the

yeah uh anyway Greg James aside Greg James Greg James aside proposals love great this has been great it's probably a good note to wrap up on because now i'm distracted by the thought of great james excellent guys let's move on to talk about holiday romances which we wanted to dive into because obviously it's the summer and people are always on holiday we are anyway aren't we god we're not doing any work um so i think this is quite a fun topic because i grew up watching like mary kate and Ashley films, the Lizzie McGuire movie, where they go to Rome and Paris and meet these Italian men who then drive them around on their Vespas and have these amazing holiday romances.

The Lizzie McGuire film is so similar in my life. Oh my God. It is iconic. Paola. Yeah. I mean, it's the most stupid plot in the world, isn't it? Yeah, it's ridiculous. Let's not pick holes.

And this has never happened to me these films saw you mean a lie you haven't you haven't gone to Italy and been swept off your feet by an Italian pop star and met my double met your double hair color and then did a concert in the Coliseum god that happened to me last week in Slovenia. So weird. Yeah. Anyway, never had a holiday romance. I have, but I was like a child. Well, not a child, but I was like 13,

14. My non and granddad have a house in Spain, the same one we'd visit every summer. And so I had like a friend group there that I'd visit every year. So it kind of blossomed throughout some years, probably like 14, 13 to 14 to 15. And then I had like a little Spanish boyfriend,

but it would only last like two weeks. So he'd like pick me up in his little moped. We'd ride around, sit by the sea. And he couldn't really speak English. So we'd just like mime to each other and be like, do you want to dance? Oh my God, that's so funny. And then like go to the local disco and kind of like dance around drinking Smell of Ice or whatever it was.

Oh, delicious. Yeah. No, that was, that's my only like holiday romance really i feel like i must have had something i mean i did do a year abroad so that's a bit different i had like a living abroad romance okay um but bit different then because i was like this is when i was in like germany for six months or whatever so it doesn't count but what happened i mean this is my question with holiday romances as well so when you met this guy away yeah what happens then when you inevitably have to leave?

Oh, I'd ended it before that. Oh, okay. Bye now. It's time. I don't know, if you're having a holiday romance, I suppose, like from a friend's experience, whenever I'm away with them, if they meet someone or something, it's always like, well, you both know exactly what it is. Like, we're going to be together and we're going to be boyfriend and girlfriend for a

week and then we're never going to see each other again. And then maybe every now and then we'll Facebook message and say, oh, I'm coming to your town one day and that's about it. I think for a lot of people that's the allure of it and it makes it more attractive

because they know it could never be a serious thing. Yeah, you get the good, sunny, positive, lovely bits of it and then none of the drama or stress. To be fair, I have friends who've had brilliant experiences of meeting some Greek Adonis on the beach or whatever.

It does happen. And actually, my flatmate met her boyfriend when traveling um and they like spent three days together in i don't know asia south america something like that somewhere far away and um and then they just sort of stayed in touch and now even though he lives in dublin and she lives in london they like see each other every three weeks they're totally in love totally smitten been like official basically since they came back from traveling and I think I'm looking to live together and yeah this all started after three days. You can understand how it happens because when you're on holiday you're obviously very stimulated by all of these new and exciting things around you and I think if you meet someone new it's very easy to get carried away and maybe conflate your feelings of I'm in a new place this

is a new amazing person yeah with with that and sort of think that someone is a bit more exciting than they perhaps might be had you met them back home and when someone's foreign they're more attractive to be honest because like when I did see my year abroad it was amazing like I lived in Belgium and I lived in Germany and I was just like way more attractive than I was at home because I was like the foreign girl uh but it's like even you know when I go to like party these days and like someone brings their like French friend and then or if it's like a girl or something and all the guys are like oh my god who's that French girl oh my god oh my god like unless so in London because it's super a girl or something, and all the guys are like, oh my God, who's that French girl? Oh my God, oh my God. Like, unless so in London, because it's super international.

Yeah, yeah. But like, especially if you live somewhere where, you know, you don't get so many exotic people coming in, then, you know,

it's more attractive. It is exciting. I think that's just like a, it makes sense. Go on holiday, you're at your best, you've got a little town on, everybody's saved up their money,

so you can go to like, restaurants that you want to go to, and you go to parties that you want to go to whereas in england you're just probably working half the time and then maybe go to the pub or whatever it just makes sense that you'd meet somebody and get sweeped off your feet abroad i actually did an episode on my podcast called what goes on tour stays on tour fun and it's literally just like do you repeat what you've done abroad like if you go and meet somebody over there and you have this relationship is it something you talk about when you get back?

Or do you just delete it from your memory? And is there protocol? Like, okay, give a fake name? Or da-da-da-da. Yeah. All of those kind of questions. You could make up a whole identity. You can be a different person when you're abroad.

And I think that excites people as well. That's a fun idea. Because you go to Australia or somewhere the opposite of the world, and you're literally like, okay, who am I today? I am Lola, who sells, I don't know like palm reads or something like you could be another human oh my god I just remembered a story I went to Copenhagen at the end of November with all my

girlfriends we went on a night out we met this group of Australian guys and I can't remember what they said was they made up that they were the most ridiculous, they had the most ridiculous job and we totally bought it and I can't remember what it was. No, it was like cave diving. I don't know if that's real or not, but it was something ludicrous and we were like, really?

Like, really? Anyway, and then, I don't know, then they went to another bar and then we caught up with them later and then we got it out of them that they'd made up the whole thing and like

they weren't their names or anything I felt so stupid that's so funny it was really annoying no one will ever know no well I'm actually

going to Paris in August with the same girlfriend I went to Copenhagen with and do you know what I think I might suggest we try and get our revenge

on some men trick them by tricking them say you're like a porn star from Paris yes it is I think they might suggest we try and get our revenge on some men. Trick them. By tricking them. So you're like a porn star from Paris. Yes, I think they'll buy it. Yeah, exactly. So funny. My only holiday romance encounter is such a disaster.

So I was in New York, which is a very different dating culture to London. How old were you? When are we talking? I was 20. Okay. People really approach people in real life in New York all the time. So interesting. And when they find out you're British, they love it.

And they will talk to you for ages and ask you all about British. And do you speak British? Do you know the Queen? Honestly, someone asked me if I speak British. When I was in New York. I'm not kidding. So that was very funny. Anyway, my friend and I, it was just me and one other girl.

And we were actually living out there for a month and we went to this bar and both of us kind of were mingling with different people and i had met this really good looking guy was speaking to him for like 20 minutes i was like oh this is great i'm just gonna go to the bathroom i went to the bathroom then found my friend and was like hey i've just met this great guy he's so awesome he's really funny he's really interesting she's like oh look that's so weird i've just met this great guy and she's like which one is he and i pointed over at him she was like oh my god that's the same guy i was just talking to meanwhile we're talking this guy comes up to both of us oh no and start saying hey girls you guys know each other this is great like she'll go back to mine and it was so strange he was planning a rendezvous yeah did you go so no so we got drunker excellent i remember being on the dance floor and

he was sort of trying on with both of us which i just kind of like sighed all the way my friend was a bit drunker than i was um and ended up kissing him that night and were you miffed or no no no no no at this point i was like i don't care whatever like she can go for it she'd just broken I was and ended up kissing him that night and ended up... Were you miffed or no? No, no, no, no. At this point, I was like, I don't care, whatever. She can go for it. She'd just broken up with her ex-boyfriend. I was like, you take it.

You take this one. Anyway, she then went on a few dates with him for the rest of the holiday. Oh my gosh. Had a little holiday romance. Wow. Yeah. And I bet he was sneakily saying, so where's your friend? Are we going to do that? Are we going to get that three together?

When's that gonna happen is that is it a three-way deal um yeah so that was um interesting i think if you get in a situation like that like i just can't imagine what it's like because she's on holiday right and like she probably has got like various things she wants to like see and do and then is she gonna make time to go on multiple dates with some guy and like is she gonna ditch you like is that okay yeah where did you get left so it would be i think she went on two more dates with him while we were there and i won one of the evenings i think i went and met one of my friends who lived in new york and then the other one i think i just

sat in the flat and watched grey's anatomy and ate chocolate was like you go babe you get your boy i'm gonna sit here and eat dark chocolate all day yeah sounds lovely actually so it's fine where it gets messy is between those two when like she goes back to the UK, if one of them's like, let's make this a thing and be long distance and the other's like, oh no. I just don't think that happens.

I think the majority of holiday romances are holiday romances. Yeah. I don't think it ever really comes home with you. But then some people get married on holiday romances. True. Find their love, say forget the flight, I'm staying here with you for life. some people get married on holiday romances. True. Find their love, say, forget the flight, I'm staying here with you for life.

Yeah, I think it's potentially different if you're both from the same place. Or no, I think maybe when you're older as well, that's more likely. Like if you've been trying to find love for a very long time and you get this immense connection with somebody that you haven't had your whole life abroad,

then you're more likely to risk it all and just be like, do you know what, forget my past life, I'm staying with you but i like those stories they're rare but they give me hope okay guys let's finish off with a dating dilemma well a dilemma of sorts an interesting email from one of our listeners anyway so here it goes i've just discovered your podcast and binged listened to about 10 episodes before reaching the one about period sex I couldn't help but be reminded of a story

of my own experience with period sex for a bit of background I used to have horrible periods very heavy and painful one night I went home with an older guy I was seeing and forgot about the period situation until we were getting down to it you just added getting down to it this just says getting to it you know added getting down to it this just says

getting to it you know what i mean i know i love that you added that getting down anyway on remembering i quickly stopped his advances and explained we had to stop and he was baffled by the fact that i had told him to stop because of my period he literally just took my pants off and pulled out my tampon himself and started fingering me. Sorry, this is quite graphic. I was completely horrified and embarrassed about this and thought he had misunderstood what I meant. In a bit of a panic, I told him my periods were heavy and it would be messy, which to me as a 21-year-old was horribly embarrassing and awkward. But he was so calm and unfazed by the whole issue and said he was fine with all the bits that were involved with period sex

and was happy to go ahead if I wanted to or to leave it if I'd rather not. I found this so arousing and refreshing having only dated guys my own age before who had not been okay with even the topic of periods let alone period sex. His openness with it has made me feel so much more relaxed going forward and I found that in me being calm guys are always happy to go ahead with it. I love the podcast and it's so refreshing to hear some of these topics talked about having just started dating again for the first time in about 18 months in brackets dating sabbatical not in a relationship and I am very quickly losing faith in men again so it's nice to have some solidarity from you girls I love it like um it's really interesting because we sort of just discussed on

the period sex episode that we had sort of found that guys don't think it's as big a deal as actually girls do and it's interesting that she seems to think it's an age thing I think it's more like an experience thing if a guy hasn't really been in a proper relationship then maybe he's not really been around periods a lot. Do you know what I mean? I agree. Whereas an older guy has probably been in a long-term relationship, he's been around a period situation, he knows what he's doing.

Whereas if you're just seeing girls or sleeping with loads of girls and not actually setting them down, you don't have to deal with it. Grace Victory, the blogger and influencer, this week did an Instagram post where she had, it was a picture which showed a period blood stain on her bedsheets, which is like a monthly occurrence for a lot of women.

And I thought it was brilliant for her to post about it, but then it was interesting that she said she lost followers after posting that, which I think is such a shame. It's almost like people don't want to see it, people don't want to think about it, people don't want to talk about it people want to talk about it it's mad because it is like typically on instagram when you're scrolling through you don't see a bloodstained sheet like it's not normal so i can get people being a bit like oh about it but not to unfollow somebody

no i thought it was really good that she did that because i'm like even though as an adult now i'm completely not embarrassed about any kind of thing to do with periods but when i was younger like in school having a leak or like like having a stain on your trousers if you had leaked or something like that would have been absolutely humiliating for me. And if I'd seen somebody that I'd followed or looked up to posting about it, then it would make me feel so much better and be like,

oh, I don't have to feel ashamed. Like everyone does it, blah, blah, blah. It's funny because you think about, I remember Lena Dunham talking about this. You never see women menstruating on TV and in film. you never see a woman like pulling a tampon out or anything and like you know it would probably be received as quite graphic if you did but and rarely also a breastfeeding yeah yeah I actually had an argument with someone when I saw that post not really like not an angry but

just a debate because they it was a boy who compared it compared periods to wet dreams like well boys have wet dreams like you don't see pictures of boys having a wet dream on your instagram feed and i'm like it's completely different yeah like a period is something that happens every month that we have no control over and it's hormonal and you get emotional and all these things that come with it whereas a wet dream is just like it's just a wet dream like so girls probably have them too it's not even a big deal in the slightest like and and even if you did see pictures of a boy having a wet dream on on the timeline if it was an issue that boys were struggling with or men were struggling with then fine post that yeah it doesn't carry any of the issues no period poverty or anything

like that it's completely different and the thing is i think a lot of women, if they are, if they're in a relationship with a man and it's like the early stages, if you stay in the bed sheet, for most women, if they, you know, you're not super comfortable with the guy yet, you feel embarrassed because that's what society tells you to feel. So I think it's great that actually, you know, she's talking about it. Grace is talking about it. I think it's just we just have to know, she's talking about it. Grace is talking about it. I think it's just, we just have to talk about it more. Yeah. I agree. And free tampons as well. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And put them on screen. Yeah, exactly. Yes! On that empowered note, we will wrap things up. Thank you everyone for listening. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of Millennial Love. If you did, please do subscribe to us please rate us please review us please tell your friends

please tell us we'd love to hear it and you can also follow us on instagram at millennial underscore dot love uh you can dm us underscore dot love it's just underscore love bugger sorry it's getting getting confused with the with the instagram and the email i'm so bad with instagram millennial underscore maybe i should say the instagram bit okay do you want to say i just meant i'm just meant for in future episodes you are much better at the instagram than i am well i'm an obsession i reply to the messages yes yes absolutely um anyway anyway millennial underscore love yes and our email address is millennial.love at independent.co.uk and you can send us your disasters, your dilemmas,

your praise, your criticisms. And all stories will be kept anonymous. Yes, and you can also join our Facebook group which is facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash millennial.love Maya, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me.

It was lovely lovely lovely where can everyone find you online just mayajama M-A-Y-A-J-A-M-A on everything

fantastic lovely give her a follow have a wonderful week everyone and we'll be back when Libby's back from France

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