Love Lives - #50 Breaking the stigma of being (perpetually) single

Episode Date: September 7, 2018

It's our 50th episode! We can hardly believe it. What fun it's been.To celebrate, this week we're talking about being single - perpetually so. Why is there such a stigma? Being single is great, and never having had a long-term relationship doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. As two longtime singletons, we're done with being made to feel bad for not having partners. Join us!Follow us on Instagram to stay up-to-date! https://www.instagram.com/millennial_loveSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know a thirsty man until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like, and now that's what my grandma's on. Thank God phone a friend with Jesse Crookshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, the Independent Lifestyle Desk's weekly podcast on love, dating and relationships.

Hosted by me, Rachel Hosey, Assistant Lifestyle Editor, and me, Olivia Petter, Lifestyle Writer. Dating today is a world away from what it was even just 10 years ago. With dating apps, millennials are finding it harder to meet people than ever before. And even when we do, who's to say we won't be ghosted, breadcrumbed or zombied? So that's why we decided to launch Millennial Love as two long-time singletons in their 20s talking candidly about all of the things everyone is doing

but not always willing to admit. Today is a very special day, ladies and gentlemen. A very special day. It is Rachel and mine's... Rachel and mine's? Rachel and I. Millennial Love's... Easier.

50th anniversary. this is this is gold right this is like our golden jubilee is that what 50 is yeah well okay so i was 25 last year and i went around calling it my silver jubilee so of course you did had an absolutely jolly old time welcome to millennial loves golden jubilee. Woo! Thank you, cheering! There's no one else in the studio but us. No. Yes, this week it is just Livvy and I, but we figured that was quite fitting for this landmark occasion. It hasn't been just the two of us, just the two of us, for a long time. And we feel a bit giddy. A little bit giddy with excitement, but to be honest with you, like, not to get too emosh but we're quite overwhelmed the fact that we're at episode 50 yeah it's quite nuts actually it's about well

it's in like a couple of weeks to be honest we'll have like our anniversary yeah actually i've just realized the whole concept of the gold jubilee is 50 years oh we've got quite a oh god i hope we're still not single can you imagine we'll be like it's two long time singletons in their 70s still doing the podcast yes it'll be fantastic i hope you're all still listening with us guys my loyalty will be tested the podcast might have involved evolved by that point to be some sort of thing that just gets infused into your brain. Yeah. Very Black Mirror. Yeah.

I'm ready for that. Or maybe we appear as holograms that are in your home. Or maybe it's in through virtual reality. Although that's not even that far off. That's a thing now. I know. But like for us to like appear there. Yeah.

So many possibilities. So many. However, I think essentially we just want to say like wow omg as if we've reached 50 episodes we love doing millennial love so much and it's honestly the highlight of our week and to get all the lovely feedback we do from you guys to see more and more of you listening and sharing it with your friends and you know sharing your stories with us it means so much it does we bloody love it and please please know sharing your stories with us it means so much it does we bloody love it and please please keep sharing your wonderful stories and sending us all of

your crazy anecdotes from the bonkers world of dating which we are all experiencing as we well know now after 50 episodes of talking about this stuff and never running around never running out of anything it's so funny isn't it talk about people always go do you not think you'll ever run out of things to discuss and we're like no we literally have like a list as long as our arms and we keep adding to it being like we should talk about this we should talk about this yeah and now we're getting more and more like ideas from you guys the things you want us to talk about so yeah i mean we've definitely got episodes till we're 70 oh yeah i think so so much hashtag content yeah literally um however let's do a dating debrief dating debrief all right so the most exciting thing in my life this week has been that I have

been granted full responsibility of the millennial love instagram account because dear rachel is on a social media cleanse not not on purpose. It's for an article. It's definitely not voluntary. No, I think she's struggling with it a bit. But I am loving it because I have total free reign over the Instagram account. And she has no idea what I'm posting. Yeah, it's actually marginally stressing me out. Because, Libby, let's be real.

Who did the majority of slash 99.9% of the Instagram account before yes I would say that would be my dear friend Rachel she's very she's very hot on the old gram and I am not so hot on the old gram but I'm really enjoying it well I said to Livvy I was like you know when I'm doing this week off social media you're gonna have to post on Millennial Love and she was like yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. And I was thinking, you better do it. And now I'm just mildly concerned. Not that I have control issues or anything.

No, absolutely not. But I'm just intrigued. And I'm sure you're doing a fantastic job, but I just can't wait to see what you posted. I'm mildly terrified. All you've posted is those incredibly flattering, very many images you have of me sitting at my desk. God, you are so narcissistic to think that I am just posting photos of you.

All I know is that you have a lot that you could blackmail me with. That's actually really true. I didn't even think about that. I have some, because I used to sit next to Rachel. And now she sits so far away that she's opposite me. And she just used to do some very funny things. And I would just always take photos of her when she wasn't looking, which sounds very creepy, and maybe it is.

But I've got so many crackers on my phone of Rachel hungover, Rachel wearing a Santa hat, Rachel eating chocolate, Rachel eating something else, Rachel eating everything. Yes, mainly. And they're great. I should compile them into a little, you know, gallery. Yes, because you can do that on the ground you can i know these things i'm good at the ground now i'm not convinced our

followers would be so interested in that however i'm i'm thrilled to hear you are maintaining thank you very much the instagram account and i look forward to seeing what you've done yeah what's your dating debrief well i don't have a dating debrief because I'm well, so I'm doing this blimmin social media cleanse, sabbatical detox, whatever you want to call it. Essentially, I'm not on any social media for a week. And I know everyone's like a week. It's nothing. But actually, if you're as addicted as I am, it actually is a thing. I'm doing it because it's scroll free September.

And, you know, this is where the Royal Society of Public Health encourages people to give up social networks for a whole month I mean obviously I was never going to do that because I genuinely cannot live my life and do my work without it um but I've I was I've reluctantly agreed to doing it for a week and there have been pros and cons so far I'm like actually not even halfway through at the point of recording. However, with it, I have decided I should probably stop dating apps as well. It was quite funny because I started on the Monday this week. And on the Sunday, I'd had quite a chill day. So I was doing quite a lot of dating app chatting.

And then I was just like, got to the end of Sunday and I realized can I be bothered to like give any of these guys my number and talk to them properly or should I just let myself disappear and they'll be like where did she go where did she go um if they even notice or care and I did the latter however another thought that occurred to me recently through you know I know in previous episodes we've talked about my crushes. Oh, yes. Do we have an update on your crushes? Well, there's only so much I can say before it gets revealed.

But, Emma, last week, this is not very exciting at all, I told you I'd had interactions and progressions with two of the three. Well, this past week... The third. The third! How did that start did they get in touch with you or you got in touch they got in touch with me flirty or non-flirty well

they have suggested we meet really although i'm not sure if this is in a romantic sense or not but you hadn't told me this well this is exciting it literally happened yesterday so wow it's fresh it's fresh guys normally rachel keeps me very up to date with everything that happens in her life. So yesterday is quite a delayed thing for you not to tell me. It's been under 24 hours. I'm so sorry. So that happened. That's exciting.

But what I was going to say was, with regard to dating apps and stuff, I think I've realised that the guys that I tend to crush on in real life are guys that I would totally swipe left on on me too and that's why like we're sort of so extra extra picky on dating apps that we'll swipe left on all these guys even though the ones you end up liking you can't control that and they might be guys that you wouldn't swipe right on yeah but that's why I mean we talk about this all the time but I think that's why dating apps are so difficult because you can't predict the way that someone is gonna charm you with with their presence yeah that's the thing you start to like someone because they're hilarious or a bit dorky or like i don't know like just natural

yeah but just how someone yeah just how someone actually is in real life. You can't, you know, when you're just communicating on a smartphone, there's only so much of your personality that you can convey. But actually, I would even go back even further to say that, you know, you can start falling for someone if they have good balance and are good at messaging. But how much of that is really who they are? But, you know, when you're doing the swiping, you don't even know that yet.

Yeah, exactly. So you'll probably swipe left with them before you even know. Is they going to woo you with their witty bants? It's really hard. I mean, I actually, confession, deleted my apps. O-M-G. I know.

Because of the new guy you're seeing? Possibly, yes. You hadn't told me that! IG. I know. Because of the new guy you're seeing. Possibly, yes. You hadn't told me that! I know, I know. But it wasn't even, it's not because of the new guy I'm seeing. It's just because... Really?

Yeah, stop it. It's just because I just couldn't be bothered. And I didn't want to spend any time on them. And equally, Hinge would just give me loads of notifications the whole time. Yeah. When someone likes you. You're sending me emails. Same. Yeah, same. and equally hinge would just give me loads of notifications the whole time yeah when someone likes you sending me emails even though same yeah same and it's oh did you delete hinge but only for the week mate oh okay i'll be right back on it right okay but it would just also it would come

up with like the little red numbers and that really annoys me like you know how some people go away no i know don't go away when it's still technically quote your turn to message and i'm like hinge don't you see i've given up on this guy i don't want to message yeah stop telling me to it's really irritating because i i'm one of those people that can't bear when i have unread messages on my phone and like little red do you know what else hinge does is if you've been chatting to a guy and then you stop chatting to them then like a week later they send you an email going rachel you and james seem to be hitting it off but now you've stopped talking i hope this means you've taken it offline and i've gone for a date and i'm like no hinge we ghosted one another like

shut up it's weird because i too involved you know yeah too involved hinge like just just step away stop trying to wingman us we've got this like we know what we're doing you've already given us the app now take a breather. Let us get on with it. Stop micromanaging us. Let the kids have their fun. Exactly. I'm excited to hear what it's like when you get back on the social medias.

I mean, I doubt much will have happened, to be honest. I might have some Bumble matches that have expired because such are the joys of Bumble. It's so high maintenance, isn't it? It is high maintenance. You have to go on every 24 hours. I know. It's really annoying, actually. You've got a life to live. I missed, I remember once I matched with a really hot guy.

And then you just were busy. Yeah, no, so I think I'd swiped right on him. Yeah. And it wasn't a match. And I was like, oh, screw it. And I didn't delete it because of him, but I just went through one of those phases a few weeks later where I deleted it from my phone and then the guy had told a mutual friend that he'd seen me on a dating app seen me on Bumble

and we'd matched but then I didn't start the conversation so it's gone forever so it's gone forever and I was like god damn it had I still had Bumble I would have started a conversation with him and would have fallen madly in love with this beautiful man. Sure. Although I tend to see a lot of the same guys over and over again, sometimes even on the same dating app.

Me too. I don't know if that's because they keep deleting and refreshing their profiles or if that's just Bumble's being like, you've gone through all the men. Yeah, why does that happen? I don't know. Does it mean that that person

has liked you and bumble like or hinge or whatever they want you to like them so that it's a match let's do some research into this yeah because it's funny i've noticed that as well yeah speaking of dating apps as we always are so it's not a very good link but anyway um for buyer of the week this week i actually wanted to bring up something that i am so fed up of seeing um and this is on hinge i realize you've been very negative to the dating apps to the start of this pod but hey i know a lot of people sorry dating apps yes sorry not sorry so hinge as you've explained before is where you know you have pictures you answer questions and you know you can pick which questions you answer. You answer three little cheesy bits.

And one of them is, I'm overly competitive about, and then you put, you know, your answer. And I swear, every other guy who comes up on my hinge has picked that question and put everything. Like, haha, wow, you're such a lad you're overly competitive about everything oh my god you're so macho you're so competitive god i hate that i think they think that they're being really funny and you know turning the question on its head but actually you just sound like a total idiot and a moron well the thing is like i don't have anything against being competitive i'm pretty competitive no neither do i but i agree with you i'm bored of seeing that.

Yeah, but also... It's actually really unoriginal. It's really unoriginal, but it's also the association, like you said, with masculinity, being like, oh, yes, I'm so competitive at everything. I play lots of sports, and I'm a real boy because I like to win, and I'm successful, and I'm driven, and it's like, oh, sod off.

You know what's so interesting, to go on a slight tangent, like I'm competitive. You should have seen me in the final quarter of my netball match this week when it was a draw. I went into the final quarter

and was like, I'm going to crush them. Also, don't play me at Scrabble. Very competitive. Really? Yeah, I nearly always win though. I beat someone at Scrabble recently. Someone?

That was vague, wasn't it? I beat someone at Scrabble. Okay. However, what I will say is I watched First Dates Hotel last night. Oh, wasn't it? I beat someone at Scrabble. Okay. However, what I will say is, I watched First Dates Hotel last night. Oh, is that back? Yeah. It was the second episode this week.

God, I love that show. I'm going to get back on it. Yeah, do. And there was this lady on it who was, I think, 40. And she said a very interesting line. She said, men always say they like strong women, but they don't.

And I think that kind of comes into the, like, He said, men always say they like strong women, but they don't. And I think that kind of comes into the, like, does a guy, a straight guy, want a woman who would say, like, I'm competitive about everything? Do you know what I mean? And someone else said, one of the other women recently said, maybe it was her, no, someone said, guys say they want sporty girls, but they don't. They want, like, girls who look hot in cheerleader outfits and will, like, you know, let them watch the football or something we've spoken about this before it's

the cool girl idea isn't it yeah from jillian flynn from gone girl it's like striking the perfect balance between the girl who is you know into sports but is also wears really sexy clothes but drinks beer but doesn't gain weight like all that stuff so problematic but i think it's actually so real yes and it's i think it's i think it's subconscious for a lot of men i think they don't you know because if you explained that to them if you explained that dichotomy which is just not realistic yeah they would be like oh no of course i would never want i would never expect that from a girl but i think actually while we're on this tangent is there an equivalent is there something

you know straight women always say they want in a man but actually they don't the personality wise i can't think of an equivalent the only thing that springs to mind is the tall dark and handsome thing i think most women do want they do i know i think they do i think they do um everyone's a handsome man too yeah and everyone i think i mean handsome is obviously subjective tall is is not um but i think that is an issue with our with our societal expectations that the man must always be larger than the woman which we've also spoken about i'm really trying to think if there is something where like do women always say like oh i just want a sensitive guy but they don't but i think i don't yeah i think i think i

know i think i think you're right i mean personally personally i don't think I've ever experienced that, but I can see and I can envisage some of my friends saying things like, I want a manly guy, but who is also sensitive and in touch with their emotions, which is just such a clumsy statement because it feeds into so many stereotypes and so many problematic tropes about masculinity um and sort of suggests that you know even just the butt in that clause suggests that men aren't inherently in touch with their emotions and should be stoic and detached whereas the woman

is the vulnerable maiden waiting to be saved well yeah and i've said before how much i hate this whole deal that it's like women are like so emotional and have so many feelings yeah and whereas all my experience is basically the other way around personally i'm like keep your feelings to yourself please keep your feelings to yourself no emotions should we start on our main topic yes yes exactly yes, exactly. I think we should. I think that almost leads us on quite nicely. So today we are going to talk about the stigma of being single and specifically of being perpetually single. Perpetually single. Perpetua.

Ah, perpetua. That's what I was going to say. That is a reference to Bridget Jones' Diary if anyone has not seen that film. Which is also very apt. It is. Oh, my God. What a good segue. Well, we're on fire today. We are on fire.

Full flames. So, as our previous guest, Jamie Lang, would always say, you are fire. Yes, he did say that. Anyway, so as we have made clear before, and we in our intro, both Livy and I have, or neither Livy nor I, I should say, have ever had a long-term relationship. And this is quite unusual, but it's not unheard of. I have other friends who are in the same boat. in the same boat um I I do feel personally that you know I've I feel like I stand out a little bit amongst some of my friends and that you know most people will like be single for a bit have a

boyfriend and girlfriend for a bit be single for a bit and I've sort of like maintained quite a stable status of being single and yeah I don't it's not it's not something I hate well it's it's there's a difference I think the meaning of single it doesn't mean that we haven't had dalliances oh well quite but you know there is a real difference between dating someone seeing someone and being in a relationship with someone and that the relationship part where you call someone your boyfriend and girlfriend that's the part that rachel and i have not yet achieved but even saying achieved makes it sound like it's not the right word no it makes it sound like it's something that we need to do so when people ask me, like, you know,

whoever it might be, a stranger, someone I'm meeting, they go, do you have a boyfriend? And I go, no, I'm single. But I always feel like I'm meant to say it in a way that's like, no, single, unfortunately. But I'm like, it's not unfortunate. It's actually not unfortunate at all. Why do I feel like I'm meant to say it that way like it's it's it is by

choice because i i know i could have a boyfriend if i wanted so desperately to have any old boyfriend because you know you can get anyone if you're willing to lower your standards enough but lol i'm not it's funny isn't it because it's like the fact that you instantly feel and I feel this as well when someone says oh you're single and you say yes you feel like you need to justify it yeah and you go oh but I do like it I like it it's actually really fun yeah and it it's a shame because I think a lot of us have we struggle with the idea that, you know, being in a relationship is sort of like a stamp of societal approval. It's like, yes, I am normal. I am going through the normal stages of my life. I'm in my 20s and I have a boyfriend or I have had a boyfriend.

And you really see it when you start seeing someone new in any, you know, on any scale, whether it's casual or not. One of the first questions they usually ask you is when was your last serious relationship yeah it's always awkward that isn't it and yeah so this is something where actually god i'm really getting a lot of references from that episode of first dates there was a woman who said i've been single for seven years but if anyone asks it's been two years so she was really you know she was quite clearly embarrassed or insecure about the fact that she'd been single for seven years but if anyone asks it's been two years so she was really you know she was quite clearly embarrassed or insecure about the fact that she'd been single for seven years because the trouble is it makes people think that there's something wrong with you that you're difficult or unlovable or you know there's something that's your fault as to why you haven't been in a

relationship for years yeah it's like there's something lacking in your character that makes you unlovable, like you said. There is something fundamentally wrong with you and that is, you know, is obvious because you're single. Breaking news happens anywhere, anytime. Police have warned the protesters repeatedly, get back. CBC News. Twas the season of chaos and all through the house,

not one person was stressing. Holla differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash. How do you feel about having never had a long-term boyfriend? Completely secure about it.

The only times I, because people ask me that often. They're like, you know, would you want a boyfriend? And they say it as if like, you know, would you like a cappuccino? Yes, please. You know, it's not it's it's just very weird to think of relationships under that generic stamp if you see what i mean like a boyfriend surely a boyfriend is not just a boyfriend they are someone who you are in a relationship with they are your boyfriend they're your person you can't just lump them all together

exactly you can't just be like, I want to order a boyfriend. It sort of suggests that there's a distance there. And I find that quite weird because it also implies that, okay, maybe this boyfriend of yours is more about having a boyfriend to tell people that you have a boyfriend and to bring your boyfriend to events. Because realistically, even the label itself boyfriend is not something that you would ever say directly to that person what you're my boyfriend

no sure you would not really it's more of a it's more of a second-handed thing so i've never done it you would know neither have i but this is what i'm saying is it's more of a reference so it's more of the way that hey this is my boyfriend this is my boyfriend or yes me and my boyfriend do this or I'm going on holiday with my boyfriend it's all about the perception of other people yeah and that's so funny because you know I've always thought that you know if slash when I do have a boyfriend if I ever go to like a family event and I'm like either I have a boyfriend now or this is my boyfriend I think like my whole family will faint they'll be like oh my god it's finally happened that's also that's also horrible exactly that's also absolutely horrible well it makes me think of it exacerbates your

insecurities about it I know but it makes me think of Bridget Jones. And so I was going to ask about, you know, where do you think the whole stigma and taboo comes from? And I think there are a lot of cultural references, for example, in films where, you know, this is changing a bit now, but in so many films, it's like the end goal is snagging a man or, you know, vice versa, snagging a woman. And, you know, it's the happy ending

when you find love and you get the guy or the girl. And, like, I think people think, like, that being single is, like, really tragic. But, yeah. And this is the thing about Bridget Jones. You know, she's always really, like, you know, she has, like, her mum's turkey curry dinners

and it's always about, like, oh, how's your love life and are you going to bring a man this year? And, you know. And, like, the thing about Brid bridget jones is she's like the most iconic singleton and carrie bradshaw yeah both of them actually all right very different very different yeah very problematic both of them and also quite interesting both quite old characters you know like that's the thing though we've said before like way back in the early episodes about how stigma changes because arguably i know people in their sort of mid-20s who've been in long-term relationships maybe since like from the age of like 18 to 25 and people will say to that they

have to justify why they've been in such a long-term relationship in their early 20s because people be like oh you should be being free and young and single. That's interesting. And then it flips. Yeah, I guess so. But also, I guess my point about them being old characters was that you would think that, you know,

in this progressive modern day society, the, you know, the presentation of single women will have changed. But it hasn't at all. Since Carrie Bradshaw

No, it really hasn't. Because if you look at films like Trainwreck, I'm talking about both, both of Amy Schumer's films, Trainwreck I'm talking about both of Amy Schumer's films Trainwreck and I Feel Pretty both of those films are pegged as these

empowering films where women are front and centre and you know female autonomy is championed women can do what they want when they want unfortunately both of those films

the trajectory ends with both of them scoring a man and that's when they're happy and it's you know try as try as i feel pretty might to sort of break down that that plot line and that you know conclusion it doesn't because ultimately one reason why you see amy schumer feeling so happy and good about herself is because she got a boyfriend for the first time in her life this is my question though like are humans hardwired to always be wanting to find love to find a soulmate to find a partner is that natural that we all want to find someone to grow old with and settle down with or have someone to love and be loved and be their special person and be looked after

but also look after them. Is that human nature? Yeah, I think it is. I think it is. I think it's part of our genetic makeup because fundamentally we are biologically designed to procreate. So try as we might to ignore the stereotypes

in films and stuff, I think it's really hard to actually be single and never ever have the idea of being in a relationship at the back of like not have that at the back of your mind and that's why I think probably quite a lot of the people who are making all these films like make the ending

that the person ends up in a couple because on some level the viewers probably want to see that they want to be like oh happy ending but that's also we want to see that because that's what we've been conditioned to know as pleasing and as entertaining i i really enjoy reading articles that are like about someone who's like 40 and single by choice and they're like no just don't want to don't want to be with anyone and but i think that must be very hard because yeah i think society tells you that like the sort of the things you're meant to achieve in your life and like the ticks tick box list you know it's like get a job like get married buy a house have babies. It's one of those things that everyone's meant

to think is just sort of like a rite of passage of growing up in your life. There are fractures in that structure, I think, though, now, particularly with the children thing. You do read a lot about men and women in particular getting, you know, over a certain age and saying, I actually don't want children. Yeah, and... And I think that is empowering because that's going against societal expectations in quite a major way and another thing though is that I found a lot of people I know in their 20s have had kids but they're not married and they're like meh might marry the person might not yeah but again they're still with someone actually they're still not single um my my biggest um I suppose grievance

with with the stigma of being single thing is actually when you start seeing someone new and and they ask you the question of you know when was your last relationship and then someone like Rachel or myself would say oh actually never never been in a relationship and then that person asks why and what do you say so it really really bothers me I've tried out different things because it's obviously it's happened you know with every single guy I've ever dated I always try and brush off the question do you I was I mean sometimes I'm like oh you know I've been seeing various guys but never anything that long-term do you know I mean yeah kind of brush it off a bit like

that yeah because you don't really want to go into a go into a full-blown explanation because i'm concerned that they'll think there's like something wrong with me yeah which even though i know that's not the case but that's what the question implies even though you know sometimes i think they mean it as a compliment and they'll say something how could how could you not have had a boyfriend and yeah they mean that they mean that as a compliment but i actually find that even more insulting because that is just feeding into all of these stereotypes that oh because i think you look a certain way i think you deserve that stamp of approval they might not be talking about or no i know but you know it might not be looks but it could be anything or because i think i'm i think you're worthy of this you know kind of attraction

yeah i think you you should have had that and because that's those two things are synonymous but but they're not like it's such a basic understanding of relationships i do look at people who i know who men and women who are like good looking like funny great personalities amazing careers and you do look at them and go like I wonder why they have they haven't found the right person but isn't that such a yeah no but because I just feel like that person is so amazing I would have thought they had the pick of the bunch yeah i know what you mean but i just think that that is ultimately quite a superficial way to look at what constitutes a relationship because you know we've talked we've talked about this before like yeah sure we all have our preferences and our types but ultimately a relationship is about your connection with

another person and all of those superficial factors like you know being good on paper having a good job looking a certain way the things that you see on dating apps don't matter yeah and that you know and the thing is I think that's the thing about the connection that makes so much sense because sometimes I like I don't really hate many people maybe like two but sometimes it's like if I'm thinking about a person i highly dislike and then they're in a relationship and i'm i i just can't fathom it because i'm like i think you're such an awful human yeah and yet someone seems to love you but that just goes to show you know we don't all get on with everyone but everyone will find someone they have a connection with there is someone out there for everyone as

they say yeah but that's the thing isn't it people say to me sometimes why have you been single forever and like i will try and kind of answer but i don't fully know the answer i don't know if it's like sometimes i'm like i think i had commitment issues for a long time i'm a bit of an avoidant although i might still have a bit of those issues but are you i don't know but then i'm also just like maybe i just haven't met the right person exactly and i and because i like being single i bloody love the independence i like being up to what i want because i'm a bit selfish like that and so if it's not 100 right if it's not like this person that's gonna like blow me away and it's so amazing it's just gonna enhance my life in every way possible i'm like nope don't need it but then i'm also like because i've been single forever am i like actually almost

too happy being single and too used to being single that i'm never going to want to make space for anyone in my life but then i'm like oh well it's the most amazing person then i will but then that person who's the most amazing person won't like me it's not about them being the most amazing person it's about them having the most amazing person it's about them having the most amazing connection with you you're so wise thank you i i often when people ask me why have you been single for so long i just say oh it's probably because probably because i've got loads of scales under my skin or probably because but or you just say like oh i don't know it's because i'm really picky but that's a really negative stereotype to, to be like, oh yeah, I'm really selective.

Well, do you know what a guy said to me before? When this has kind of come up, I've been on a date, and he'll be like, yeah, I'm really picky. You should be lucky I'm here with you. Someone said that to you? Yeah, in maybe not so many words, but I was just like, excuse me? Yeah.

I think the most common accusations in that situation is either you're too picky or you have commitment issues. Both are problematic. Like both are negative traits. Which is why I pondered them both about myself. Yeah. I'm sure every person who's been single for a long period of time has. They're like, okay, what's wrong with me? Well, if I look at films, the people who are single in films either have commitment issues or they're

scarred from a previous experience in their childhood or they are too picky and they are too or if they're women it's their to career-driven yeah to career jobs yeah exactly which again is something that you see in films being made today did you see that Netflix film set it it up yeah yeah so with lucy lu and the reason why she's like this you know high-flying but the same goes for the guy yeah no no well the guy was married the guy was married oh yeah and then he's he yeah anyway i won't ruin the plot but but she's been single forever as far as we know within the context of the film and she's a super successful high-flying woman and that's a film that was literally made a few months ago i know it is

problematic isn't it it is and i i think it's just so deeply entrenched in us these these you know concepts of singleton singleton singleness singletons no singlehood no we need to like reclaim this yeah word sing singleness being single being single being single we've said the word single so many times it now has lost all meaning i know i can't even think i think there's probably a word for this and we're gonna afterwards be like why couldn't you remember that all of the single ladies and men single ladies all the single ladies that's actually something i do want to say. I do think there's more of a stigma attached to being single for a woman than a man. Oh my God, yeah.

You know, you only have to contrast the words like spinster and bachelor, don't you? Yeah. The spinster is all the connotations of like a crazy cat lady living by herself. Miss Havisham. Yeah, exactly. Rotting in her yellowing wedding dress like yeah getting her women over all the time living his best life exactly and there is more pressure on us which is kind of annoying isn't it it's just it's just difficult i think you know

ultimately try as we might to break down these barriers and these stereotypes. There's only so much you can do. I think and I hope it's getting better slowly. Because you know what's so interesting is that I think my mum, my mum always goes to me like, well, A, she's like, I think you need to lower your standards. I'm like, shush, mum. I hate it when people say that to me b she's like but i just

don't really get why you and so many of your girlfriends your age are single and i'm like do you know what we're a very different generation very different generation as women i'm so thrilled that on the whole we've been brought up with different priorities to the previous generations and that's why i think maybe more of us are single. My mum's like, oh, when I was your age, me and my friends were all kind of settling down and stuff and I'm like, yeah, well, we just don't care so much. We don't rely on men. No.

At all. We literally, like, do not need them. I mean, they're all right for some things. Like, they can be quite nice sometimes. Sometimes. But you don't need them. And so that's why I think we're just like, meh, if we meet the right one, we meet the right one.

If we don't, we don't. And actually, we're having a lovely old time without them. Yeah, and that is perfectly okay. Yeah, I think so. I hope that things are starting to change and being single will stop being seen as a negative thing and equally that single people are instantly classified as being desperate yeah desperately looking for love like you can be single and not be looking for a relationship and that's fine absolutely

you know what they say that's when love finds you oh what a lovely note to end on rachel yes let's squeeze in a dating dilemma shall we yeah okay thank you very much for sending this in and i will begin with the dating dilemma that was a very radio for yes it's very good kirsty young okay last year i started volunteering at a small mental health organization just doing various bits for the website writing content delivering the occasional talk and taking part in panels it It's something I love to do and it takes up a lot of my time, which means I have to communicate freely with the founder. Freely? Communicate frequently with the founder, who is a man 15 years older than me. For the first few months, he seemed great,

always considering my ideas, allowing me to lead certain projects and even giving me sole responsibility of the organisation whilst he was away. However, this all changed when he started sending me messages every day, liking my pictures on social media, and eventually asking me out on a date. I politely said no because I'm 23 and he's 38, and because we work together, albeit on a volunteer basis. He seemed a little disappointed, but not devastated or anything. Since then, he's rejected all of my ideas

done all the talks and panels himself and even deleted one of the posts I wrote for the website. I don't understand why things have changed so drastically just because I said no to a date with him. It's been really difficult because it was something I loved to do. I truly believe in the organisation and the work it's doing

but now I'm being completely overlooked when I know I've done a good job how do i navigate this do i leave the organization completely or do i try to reason with him god this is bleak isn't it nightmarish situation because she has done nothing but behave professionally be good at her job and this guy has been so unprofessional has put her in an awful situation is treating her so so badly using his power abusing his power and it's actually like makes me fume me too and clearly his fragile male ego could not handle the rejection it's annoying because he's obviously the founder of this organization so there's no one higher up than him presumably that you can go to but my advice would be to seek out someone else in the company that you can speak to about it i don't know maybe a deputy senior person someone who's right below him in the ranks of the organization an hr person

just just someone that you can trust someone who is closer to his age ideally who will be able to recognize that this is obviously a very problematic situation and something that is very much his fault not yours thing is he probably feels like awkward about it because but then also he shouldn't have like asked her out especially if like i'm presuming you weren't like flirting with him back but also makes me really angry that you know he may very well have been you know giving you all these opportunities because he fancied you and that like absolutely sucks because I'm not saying you didn't deserve them at all but then the fact that he just took them away after you said no to his advances realistically your progress within that company is never going

to be meritocratic like it's just going to be based on this guy you know fancying you essentially even though you say it's a brilliant company that you really believe in doesn't sound like it's a great place to work because it's led by a guy like that as someone who's abusing their power being incredibly unprofessional and so I'm afraid to say I think you'd be better off looking for something else. I agree too, but I wouldn't leave without speaking to someone about it. No. Because if you don't, you allow this. Exactly.

You allow this guy to pursue other people within the company. And who knows, you know, if he has the lack of professionalism to pursue a 23-year-old in his company, who's obviously much more junior than him. God knows how he'd behave with her. I know. It's a massive red flag, massive warning signs. And I think as a woman, this writer has a responsibility to, you know, you don't have to necessarily report him,

but just speak to someone about it so that they are aware that this has happened. It's so annoying when, know your junior and the power balance makes everything a million times harder it's it's really really difficult and like i think you've actually handled it very well because you know also if you're ambitious and you like what the company does you know it can't you can't feel quite pressured to be like, oh, I should go along with this because, you know, that'll benefit my career.

And, and it's, it's really unfair. It's really, it's really unfair, but it happens all the time. Yeah, it does.

All the time. I think it's like, you know, obviously, you know, a lot of people meet their other halves, which, oh,

I hate that expression. Why did I use that? Meet their partners anyway, at work. And there's nothing wrong with that. other halves which oh i hate that expression why did i use that meet their partners anyway uh work and there's nothing wrong with that but in a position where he is the boss of the company or the founder at least and you know you're volunteering you know 23 and he made a move on you like that is so not okay no not at all man It's like that book that we read, Promising Young Women. Yeah, it was great, that book.

Which actually, dear listener, you should buy and read. It's very, very good. Yeah, you'll probably find it quite relatable. Yeah. Considering your situation. Situation, Rachel. That is just not a word that you abbreviate. Rachel likes to abbreviate everything.

She abbreviates abbreviations. Abbreve. Yeah literally you have said that to me before. It is so annoying. Well you know it's like the initialism CBA is SEABS. SEABS yeah. That's quite well known though isn't it? Yeah that is quite well known. You take it to another level though. brief not a thing stop stop right now thank you very much okay what a wonderful episode it's been it's been so delightful 50 episodes all done what an emotional time thank you so much for listening if you have listened to all 50 episodes yes we really hope you have done thank you Livvy thank you Rachel thank you thank you to us

oh so much love I know there's a lot of love in this room and Livvy's wearing a top with a love heart on today I am

I am full of love yeah absolutely thank you so much for listening if you've enjoyed it which we really hope you have please as always

rate, review, subscribe and tell your friends and please keep sending us your stories, your dilemmas, your disasters, your troubles and your strifes. Your hopes and dreams. Your hopes and dreams. Your feedback. Yes, absolutely anything. Topic suggestions, you can get in touch with us on Instagram,

which I am running for the rest of the week, at millennial underscore love. Or you can send us an email at millennial.love at independent.co.uk or you can join our facebook group which is facebook.com forward slash group forward slash millennial.love and that is it and that is it and we will see you next week for episode 51 bye We'll see you next time.