Love Lives - #7 Workplace winter flings, what constitutes cheating and dating app profile turn-offs

Episode Date: November 2, 2017

As temperatures drop, we discuss the perhaps unsurprising news that flings with colleagues are more common in winter (watch out for mistletoe at the office Christmas party). We also debate what constitutes cheating - does a kiss count? And what about flirty messages? And considering we have our fair share of experience on dating apps, we chat about what people say in their profiles that result in a rapid left-swipe.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know a thirsty man until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like, and now that's what my grandma's on. Thank God phone a friend with Jesse Crookshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, the love, dating, sex and relationships podcast from The Independent.

I'm Rachel Hosey, the Lifestyle Team's Acting Assistant Lifestyle Editor. I'm Olivia Petter, Lifestyle Writer. And we are very excited to be back with more gossip to chat about. How's your week been, Olivia? My week's been good. It's been pretty uneventful. I obviously didn't do anything this weekend even though it was Halloween and I should have been at loads of fancy dress parties I just couldn't be bothered this year so I didn't go well we did we did discuss in episode one I believe when we discussed cuffing season that is a lot of importance placed on one's Halloween costume I know but the costume that I

had in mind I don't think would have helped me very much i really wanted to go as the girl from that viral bbc video the little girl in yellow yeah marion um when that guy was presenting um on bbc about north korea and then his daughter tumbled into the room and she was dressed head to toe in yellow with like glasses and her hair and like a lollipop yeah I think you would have got points for wit though and yeah that would have attracted the right type of guy that's true maybe maybe that's what I've been doing wrong all these years error error yeah what about you oh you know I went to a German themed party which I'm now wondering was it cultural appropriation? I'm hoping not. And then today, because for Halloween, I got sent a ghosting survival kit

complete with Grow Your Own Boyfriend. So that's where I'm at. Nice. What does the Grow Your Own Boyfriend kit give you? I haven't really looked into it. There seems to be a small man. What every girl wants, a small blow-up man. It grows. But yes, in interesting news though, we discovered this week that winter flings with your office colleagues are...

No, wait, let me express this better. In the winter, flings with office colleagues are much more common. the winter flings with office colleagues are much more common this is a study that's found that workplace relationships are much more common in winter and autumn and two-thirds of office workers say their romance started during the winter months this has actually come out with some really interesting um stats it says that 45 percent of the people questioned, and there were 2000 people questions, this wasn't literally just like 100 people, said that they dated a co worker at some point in their lives. That's nearly half of people having dated a co worker. Now that strikes me as really high. It's also just quite, it's putting quite a lot of risk, you know, like I obviously it differs

in company to company but surely there are rules about that kind of stuff I think it maybe depends how closely you work with someone if they're like literally on your team and you're working with them every day or if they're like in a completely different department and you actually have nothing to do with them well I think certainly in terms of like how you handle it that obviously plays a big part because it would just be so awkward if you date someone on your team or that you work with every day and then it goes to shit and then you have to see them can I say that I think it's nothing I can do I'm gonna have an explicit label on

because then otherwise you know if you don't work with them every day, then I guess it doesn't really matter. I feel like why should it matter? And, you know, considering you spend all day, every day, well, five days a week at work, you're spending a lot of time with these people. I kind of understand why it happens. You spend more time with your colleagues than your friends or family to be honest yeah you get to know them better you see

them day in day out it's kind of like when you're back at school like you you are surrounded by the same group of people every day you often eat lunch together it's like that with friends as well though I feel like you know you maybe it depends where you work obviously we're the best of friends because we work together every day i mean obviously you're my best friend you're my friend but then if your colleague leaves then you just have nothing to do with them anymore i'm very sad well not as hopefully not nothing to do with them but um yeah so this study also said that over a quarter of bosses say they would prefer their staff not to date each other, which is potentially not surprising. I mean, that makes sense.

If I was running a company, I'd probably say I don't want my whole company running around shagging each other. I mean, from a professional point of view, yes. For gossip, then potentially you'd be like, yeah, everyone get together. That's true. But, you know, to to be productive that would possibly not be wise which is interesting because um more than 30 percent of first kisses between colleagues take place at the christmas party i mean that doesn't surprise me because that's the one occasion every year where it's like expected that everyone in the office goes and gets drunk together that's the one occasion every year where it's like expected that everyone in the office goes and gets drunk together that's where it always happens yeah you get drunk together thing is

it's interesting there's dating a colleague or there's just hooking up with a colleague exactly yeah that's true and there is definitely a difference there I agree I reckon the latter is more common the thing is I know so many people who have met their significant others at work. Really? Yeah. My parents met at work. I think a lot of people in our parents generation actually would have met each other at work. Maybe they didn't go out anywhere else. But also, you know, they didn't have dating apps. They didn't have online dating, that kind of thing. one of my friends actually met her boyfriend at work but he and they got together at the work Christmas party classic very stereotypical he was

older he was actually in a long-term relationship at the time and I think another interesting stat from the study was that one in five of the people who had got together at work were in married relationships so there is kind of a boundary there because obviously like you said you spend so much time with the people you work with more than you would with your spouse or long-term partner if they don't work with you so it can it can be conceivable why people would start workplace relationships yeah i mean that is that is bad but it like it makes me think of love actually you know at the christmas party at that um gallery with all the santa hats on the boobs and he goes they're not funny they're art yeah and then but then there's that awful woman what is even her name i see the i watched film like five

times i don't know she's got like a black bob. Yeah. And she's flirting with Anne Rickman. Oh, and she's awful. She's so cool. And then, oh, and he goes, you look really pretty. And then she goes, it's for you. It's all for you.

And here's Emma Watson face. His wife is right there. I know. So sad. I know. And then he buys her a necklace. The whole thing's so heartbreaking. It's the worst part of love, actually. It breaks my heart every time. Oh, I know. So painful. It's as festive as I get, and then he buys her a necklace. The whole thing's so heartbreaking. It's the worst part of love, actually.

It breaks my heart every time. Oh, I know. So painful. It's as festive as I get, by the way. Rachel has a real thing about me not liking Christmas. It's weird. Why doesn't she like Christmas? I really can't stand it.

We are polar opposites. Rachel's convinced to make me love it as I stare at her wearing a sequin jumper. And this morning when I walked to work wearing like three things of velvet the first thing she said to me was oh my gosh Olivia you're so festive today look at you wearing your velvet I mean like I have like a Christmas bow on my computer screen already and today I've eaten a mince pie croissant and an array of Christmas sandwiches and um I have no shame but I would also just like to clarify, velvet has nothing to do with Christmas. Sparkle is also for life, not just for Christmas.

We've digressed a little bit. Weird. To link this back, I will almost definitely be wearing something sparkly to the Christmas party again. Shock. Anyway, so as we've established, married partners, not so great, hooking up with their colleagues.

But it happens. Yeah, evidently. Which brings us on to the second topic we want to discuss. Looking for a screen-free way to keep your kids entertained and learning? Welcome to the Earth Rangers podcast. Welcome to the Earth Rangers podcast. It's the perfect blend of animal adventures and eco action that will capture their imagination and spark their love for the planet. Join thousands of other families and let your kids go wild with the Earth Rangers podcast.

Find it on your favorite podcasting app and let the adventure begin. It was the season of chaos and all through the house, not one person was stressing. Holla differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash. Today, which is what constitutes cheating? Because I feel there is a quite a lot of disagreement on this so there was a study that came out in June this year that said that 20%

of men wouldn't think that passionately kissing in inverted commas counts as cheating snogging counts as cheating I mean it, it 100p is. It obviously is. Absolutely is. But 20% of men didn't think that it did. And I think it was something like 45% of women aged between 16 to 24 thought that just flirting was cheating. Oh. No. Which I think is a bit over the top. What do you think? What is cheating? thought that just flirting was cheating. Oh, no.

Which I think is a bit over the top. What do you think? What is cheating? I think it really much depends on what the situation is. I think there are some obvious things, like sleeping with someone, like passionately kissing someone. I do think that's cheating.

I think obviously there are degrees of severity and obviously you a relationship is probably more beyond the point of repair at the you know at the more severe end of the spectrum when sex is involved but when it's just a kiss or when it's maybe I don't know flirting over message I mean all of it's inappropriate but I don't know if some flirtatious text messages and exchanges count necessarily as cheating yeah I agree I think anything physical is 100% cheating um I agree and you know but then you could even question that and you say like obviously snogging is cheating and anything more than that is obviously cheating but then if a man you know puts his hand on a woman's leg in a flirtatious way or you know you know

something like that which I mean if it's if he's trying to be flirty is it is it cheating it well it could be harassment but that's another thing some people are just tactile as well yeah and but then I do think that it's harder to quantify if it's something like flirtatious messages or you know just being a bit and if it's sneaky as well if it's like behind the other person's back so if you kind of purposely purposefully conceal the fact that you've been messaging this person then clearly there is you know you're doing something wrong the thing is I think a lot of people would argue that actually worse than their partner you know snogging or sleeping with someone else is if it's actually you know what they say like an affair of the heart an emotional affair or something if you actually have feelings for someone else even if you haven't acted upon them

yeah that's still i do actually think that's like that's known as kind of emotional infidelity and i think if you know because you could essentially be in love with someone but not have acted upon it that's that's absolutely cheating even though it doesn't necessarily make sense in pragmatic terms of the word if you're going to sleep every night thinking about someone other than your partner I was discussing this with my flatmate recently and um she was saying that one of her friends in a long-term relationship had a crush on I think it may actually have been a colleague funnily enough and um I was saying well surely that's not great that doesn't that doesn't that sounds like everything is not right in her relationship if she fancies and has a crush on someone else and

she was like no it's totally fine of course you can have still have crushes if you're in a long term relationship I think yeah I know I I would agree with her I think of course you can you're gonna just because you're with someone doesn't mean you're not gonna ever feel attractive to someone else. I think I think it's a difference between you know obviously you can appreciate other people are attractive but you know like a crush when it's like you get all fizzy and think about them all the time and you feel like a 14 year old again. Yeah yeah. You look so guilty right now who do you have crushes on rachel move on move on um yeah i think it just it just depends if you act on said crush or attraction and yeah i think maybe if if the attraction extends beyond just you like the way that they look,

there's maybe something more to it. And then it's not, again, I don't think it's cheating. I just think it's inappropriate. I think another really interesting thing is with heterosexual couples, a lot of guys don't have any issues with their girlfriends, sort of drunkenly snogging girlfriends is that a thing but what yeah they wouldn't they wouldn't have a problem with it yeah yeah i'm like i've discussed this like you know like i think girls often sort of kind of drunkenly kiss their friends like their

girlfriends yeah whether they're single or not and it never really means anything it's just kind of like an expression of love for your girlfriends and you're just all a bit drunk and it happens whereas I don't as far as I can tell it like boys don't just accidentally drunkenly kiss their guy friends um and i know that you know some of my guy friends have said before that they don't really care if they're that if their girls just kiss like their girlfriends but that then again i think a lot of heterosexual guys actually kind of like that idea yeah but regardless of that why why would they care if their girlfriends kissed their friends like just in a platonic way it's not sexual they're clear if they're

if they're heterosexual women like why would that bother them well you know i mean it's kind of it's a bit maybe strange but it's not necessarily but then they still have issues with the girl if the girl was to kiss a one of her male friends because she could she could be sexually attracted to him but i mean we could argue that sexuality is on a scale anyway you know it's not necessarily like you're straight you're gay it's on a scale yeah that's true but if the if the girl in question has never previously had any sort of relationship, any homosexual relationship, but has had heterosexual relationships, it's understandable why the guy would be more grated

by the fact that she had kissed a boy. True. You see what I mean? Yeah, very true. I guess, I don't know if this is something that people sort of, I doubt it's something that couples sort of discuss, like what is cheating, what are our boundaries, what are our lines? As two single gals, it's something that couples sort of discuss like what is cheating what are our boundaries what are our lines as two single gals it's hard to speculate

yeah we should have got someone else not exactly talking from experience one thing we do have experience of however is the murky world of dating apps. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So one thing I was writing about earlier this week is the phrases that people put in their dating app profiles that are, you know, absolute no-nos, big turn-offs, because there was this big discussion online where people were sharing what the worst ones considered to be. And up there at the top was one which I do agree with as being awful and it is, I made this

account as a joke. I made this account as a joke? I mean, I've actually never seen that. Have you seen that before? I've seen it. You have? I've seen it. And I'm just a bit like, it's insulting to everyone on the app. Yeah. Also, what's the point of being on there if you're just

going to make fun of it? I think what's the point of being on there if you're just gonna make fun of it or it's people who i think it's the same sort of people who say like willing to lie about how we met it's like mate don't go on the app if you're ashamed of being on it yeah absolutely also so many people meet each other on these apps now i know so many people get married get in long-term relationships yeah there's actually no stigma it's almost i feel like it's actually almost more of like a given if someone is single and in their 20s they're gonna be on tinder or bumble or probably both yeah it's so common there it's definitely not a taboo thing anymore so that doesn't make much sense to me that people are putting that

on their profiles also there are just so many other more interest like more interesting things you could say to make yourself seem swipeable swipeable right swipeable right swipeable yeah that's true okay so what are your turn offs i find it i know people always say that this is necessary but i find it really strange when boys put their height on their profile i get that maybe tall boys want to show off that they're so tall and obviously you can't tell how tall someone is in a photograph really and they say that a lot of women ask for it but i just think it makes the whole thing a bit biological and it's like i have brown hair i am six foot two i have very good management skills and it just it you know it's not a linkedin profile you're not

it's all a bit too kind of detailed i just think tell a joke or i don't know do something a bit funnier you know what i think is really interesting is how guys go about saying their hype i i kind of don't really like it when they go six foot two as apparently that matters or like six foot two was apparently that matters or like six foot two because apparently all you ladies that was me being a man was that not convincing did you not believe me that was my alter ego richard um okay so i'm gonna disagree with you here though a bit um i am a tall lady i'm not you know you know extremely tall like you'll stare at me as i walk down the street um however how tall are you five foot nine okay so you know you are tall thank you very much i will take that as a compliment um and so i you know i don't

you know if i meet i'm not like obsessed with height but it is a factor you wouldn't go for a guy shorter than you I don't ideally want to date someone shorter than me of course at the end of the day who you fall for can't be helped if you fall for someone for their sparkling personality etc many other things and they happen to be shorter than you so be it however you know when you think of what ideally you're looking for I'm looking for someone taller than me I mean it's just you know it's a it's something that's ingrained in us just taller than you or you want someone tall period ideally tall ideally because i want to wear heels and still and and still someone be taller than me because

that is the image that society's ingrained in us but is it more about do you want the boy to be taller i'm only asking because i i i'm like i don't care the reason why i like tall guys is not necessarily because they're taller than me although that's not difficult because i'm only asking because I'm like, I don't care. The reason why I like tall guys is not necessarily because they're taller than me. Although that's not difficult because I'm only five foot six. But it's just because I prefer taller guys. Do you see what I mean? I don't know. I mean, this is a whole other issue. Maybe we should vote another podcast.

I just feel like I don't need to know about your height on your Tinder profile. That's because you know they're always going to be taller than you don't, I just feel like I don't need to know about your height on your Tinder profile. That's because you know they're like always going to be taller than you. Yeah, I guess so. So because sometimes guys have in their bio like five foot eight

and I'm a bit like, oh, oh, not really sure what to do now. If you're five foot eight, why would you tell people that you're five foot eight? No, but I think they do because they kind of

want to put it up front like BTW. I've had guys before when they haven't, they haven't put their height in their bio then we've been chatting i would never ask i never ask a guy like how tall are you yeah and then sometimes they go oh by the way in case it's an issue i'm only five foot ten and i'm like mate it's okay but like it's clear that that a lot of people think that is so awkward i know i know

it's really interesting but i what I don't like is as well, and I've heard of women doing this saying like, those under six foot need not apply. And I'm like, oh, so arrogant. What women put that in their bios. Exactly. Yeah, that's not okay. Exactly.

But what I also find, I don't really like it when guys are like, looking for a petite girl. Like, doggone, mate. Yeah. I think as soon as someone starts putting aesthetic preferences in their tinder bio is game over that's just not a good route to go down yeah i don't like list of demands of any kind yeah i really dislike yeah if it's

like you know something an interest in house music is as a must i don't know maybe it's they're just like literally saving you time for later down the line when you reveal that you only like pop yeah you need to sort of strike the right balance between telling someone about yourself without making it seem like a personal statement or like a cv you know what i mean because you want to tell someone so if you're funny you want someone to know that you're funny but you don't just want to say i'm really funny i'm really funny by the way like i have such good jokes tell a joke if you're so funny it's like what they say in a job interview like don't tell me that you're a good team player show me show me an example but the same applies with dating apps don't just say that

you're really sporty and you love reading and you love going to the opera and blah blah blah so boring just like give an example or I don't know what also annoys me is a blank bio I'm like put some effort that's just lazy put some effort in and then because especially on bumble where the woman has to start the conversation often it gives you something to go on something to actually ask them about and then you don't have to do like a standard opener how do you feel about emojis i'm a fan i knew you'd be of course i'm a fan and i don't like it when guys are like snobby about emojis i love an emoji i have emojis in my bumble bio well i was about my next question was what is your what is your bio oh i mean i'm not gonna get my phone out right now but it says something like um peanut butter aficionado um what else does it say I oh I need to I think it says coriander reverse because I am coriander reverse uh oh god I can't remember anything these are important things they are things that are

important to me anyway I feel like they're not all about food, but potentially there is a lot of food references. It's not that exciting, to be honest. I mean, no one's is, really. What's yours? I don't think my, I think, I think I didn't have one for a long time. I know.

Cardinal Sen. And then I, when I started writing for a living I thought as a disclosure I'll put be nice because I'll probably write about you which I probably will or talk about you as I have done on this very podcast one of the funniest things I get a lot is when people find out they go like oh you're a journalist are you gonna write about me in a column and I always have to be like no you're not interesting enough. People love it. Everyone wants to be written about. One of the funniest things I saw recently on a Bumble bio,

which I sort of just want to read out to you as something that an example of what I thought was really good. This guy goes, this is an investment banker, would you believe? He goes, despite Brexit, still in the single market. Hopefully it won't take two years to find a good deal. But agreed, no deal is better than a bad deal. I love that one of the reasons why I love this so much is because this guy is an investment banker, so clearly. He's obviously like a fun investment banker rather than the boring one.

And he showed it. I thought that was really clever. It was the best Brexit-related Bumble bio I'd ever seen. Yeah, I know that is good. I also, in anticipation of this podcast, thought it would be wise to ask one of my single male friends what he thought that were, you know, the dating app bio no-nos. So we're not too, too biased as to single ladies. That is very, here's one I made earlier.

Well, you know, I always prepared. And he said things that he doesn't like our references to loving gin and I feel like this is a bit like how we've discussed before about guys when people just say like really obvious things like I love traveling yeah that was Richard again I love nights out as well as nights in looking for a partner in crime like they're cliche yeah yeah i didn't realize gin was such a commonly referred to so gin i'd say probably falls under the category of basic that would be why i love gin up there with prosecco and pumpkin spice lattes you haven't got anything about pumpkin spice lattes in your bio do you well no but maybe i should

it was like see how it works i'll test the water i'll let you know next week maybe just put psl see if they understand it right good idea see i actually saw a guy on the train at the weekend and he had a psl and i was like mate you're the first man i've ever seen drinking how did you know he had a psl said psl on his cup it also said Matt he was wearing a pink jumper he was my kind of guy nice anyway so um so my male friend also said things he don't like are swipe left if you're a cat person is that what people say swipe left if you're a cat I mean I hate cats but I would never say swipe left if you're something that is annoying annoying. No, neither. I get it. I hate cats as well. Another one, looking for a real man.

Oh. Again, it sounds really like when a guy would be like, looking for a petite girl or a blonde girl. Also, looking for a real man, that brings up a whole load of masculinity complexes. I feel like you're going to get all those toxic masculine guys. No, no. And then another one, apparently, which women do is say,

make me laugh. And my male friend goes, no, you make me laugh. And I'm like, fair enough. I think laughter should go both ways. Also, I think that's expected. Everyone wants someone that makes them laugh. I just think never put anything that is expected, that is so obvious that you need to say it you have what maybe three seconds to capture someone's attention on a dating app before they

decide which way they're going to swipe and they might not even read your bio personally i rarely read the bios depends how good my internet connection is at the time yeah if i can be bothered if it will load it's purely out of laziness because I can't bother to do that extra movement with my finger. I know. But very, it's very hard work, isn't it? It's really tough. The whole dating apps. Okay.

So what do you think would be is like a good thing to put in a bio or what have any good ones you've seen? I think good ones I've seen have been short and sweet and they're like sort of one line and it's sort of witty yeah and it doesn't really give too much away but something that kind of piques your interest yeah something that makes you think this person is interesting and is maybe a bit clever because they said something a bit clever in their funny line i don't know it's very difficult oh yeah what is that thing that a lot of guys put oh if they put sapiosexual a plus if you know what that means and i'm like can you not like be so arrogant yeah that's horrible like you know it's just like oh

i'm better than you or maybe you're on my level if you get this i also hate it when people i'm so much better at saying what i don't like rather than what i do like um but i hate it when people sort of list the things they're interested in accompanied by corresponding emojis so like i love traveling looking me like i definitely do that like i love traveling but there's no peanut butter emoji i know it's really sad the closest thing is honey it's really sad it's not thing is honey. It's really sad. It's not really the same. There is an avocado emoji. Yeah, of course. Have you got avocado toast on there? No.

But I've probably got an avocado emoji. I really want to see your profile now. I have to share it to you after. We'll discuss. But yeah, you know, the guys need to know what they're getting themselves in for. And avocado is a big part of my life. Yeah, totally. And so is peanut butter.

They need to know this. Say it in an emoji. Right emoji right exactly got to be clear from the start i agree well i think now we've decided what we both need to do or not do with our bumble bios we also if anyone's listening and that we've mentioned you apologies and uh enjoy your five minutes of fame they always do. That's when we'll start getting angry messages. I can't believe you talked about me on the podcast. Sorry. Anyway.

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