Love Lives - Cariad Lloyd on grief in relationships

Episode Date: December 6, 2019

This week Olivia is joined by comedian and Griefcast host Cariad Lloyd to discuss grief in relationships. How can you help a partner who is grieving? What should you say to them and what should you definitely not say?The duo discuss the complexities surrounding grief and explore why there's so much stigma surrounding it. Cariad also talks about why you shouldn't be surprised if a partner breaks up with you after losing someone close to them and how this doesn't necessarily mean your relationship is over for good.Plus, she explains why the 'five stages of grief' is grossly misguided information and why there is no right time to move on after losing a partner.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Twas the season of chaos and all through the house not one person was stressing. Holla differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash. Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, a podcast from The Independent focusing on everything to do with sexuality, relationships, identity and more. We touch on a wide variety of topics ranging from how to have feminist sex to how dating has changed in the post-MeToo era. I'm your host Olivia Petter and today on the programme I'm joined by a comedian and host of the Griefcast podcast, Cariad Lloyd, and we're going to discuss grief.

Cariad Lloyd, and we're going to discuss grief. Cariad, would you like to start by just explaining a bit about Griefcast? People are always like, you do what? And I'm like, it's a podcast about death. So I interview comedians, and yeah, as you said, I've expanded to other people. There's not loads of comedians, guys. So I interview comedians mainly about their experiences of grief and death so it can be anything from talking about their experiences of losing a parent to losing a sibling to losing a grandparent to losing a friend and even we have an episode about a dog as well so it's just exploring all forms of grief and loss

and the reason i do this because again then people are like she's weird um is my dad died when I was 15 so I've been having this conversation for a long time and so I just thought it would be a good opportunity to talk to other people about it in a uplifting hopefully not too depressing way and do you get quite a lot of messages from listeners yes sorry that sounded really like yes. I was meant to be like yes. Yes is the answer. I get a lot of messages, which I don't mind at all. It's just the main, the reason I'm being awkward is I feel so guilty because I haven't replied to them all yet.

So there's like about 300 waiting for replies. If you're listening, that's you. I am so sorry. I'm getting there. I have a folder called like reply once a day, try and one a day anyway I'm really gabbling um I get emails I get twitter dms I get instagram messages um you get messages on facebook because what you what I realized when I started the podcast is that I talked about it quite freely but so many people don't so so many people write to me saying like I've never told anyone my close friends what happened to me or I haven't told my wife how my

dad died when I was three because I've never my family decided not to talk about it and that opening of the door when they realize there's a community of people that are willing to talk about it is is really huge and we have a really big twitter conversation going all the time so we're at the grief cast and basically what happens is someone will tweet and be like it's my dad's anniversary tomorrow first time doing this what the hell do i do then i retweet with some advice and then literally yeah a lot of grief grief does as we call ourselves get involved and help and support and people will message be like i live near you dm me I'm here all day if you need me so yeah it's it's actually quite a large community I've discovered so it might come

as no surprise to people listening that today we are going to talk about grief um in case my specialist subject in case you hadn't realized um but specifically how it manifests in relationships so maybe you're someone who has tragically lost a partner or you you are with a partner who is grieving someone maybe a family member or a friend um however however it is in your life you know grief is something that as we've said is incredibly complex and i think it's something that we actually get wrong a lot of the time and and you know from a society perspective we just misunderstand it because i think it's something that we actually get wrong a lot of the time. And, you know, from a society perspective, we just misunderstand it because I think there's quite a lot of shame around grief. And it's almost like it's a bit of a taboo to speak about it.

It's probably a global thing, but it's a particularly British thing, I think, of fear of emotional reactions. And also we have a very, a really tricky thing. Look at Brexit, guys. We have a very a really tricky thing which look at brexit guys we have a fear of being wrong and what i think is really funny is people are like oh i my friend has lost their dad if i say something one they might get upset or two it might be the wrong thing to say therefore i'm not going to say anything which to me is like like once we make them want to scream because it's like so one they might get upset yes their their parent has died of course they will get upset like it would be strange if they didn't what you have to do is separate your I'm getting

a bit feisty here separate your own ego from their emotional reaction so your you have nothing to do with their upset what's upset them is their dad has died so you are not going to make it worse it's already pretty bad like so don't feel like you have the power to make it good or bad you don't you what you can all you can do is say is I'm here and I love you which at that time might not stop them feeling sad but maybe six months later they will think oh god that was that really meant something that really helped me That really made me realize I wasn't alone. And also in terms of saying something wrong, it's like, so fucking what? Like, so, you can see I'm getting so angry.

Like, so what? So you say something and the other person's like, oh, well, that's a bit of, you know, that's made me feel this or this. You know what you do? You go, oh, I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry. I've never lost anyone.

So I don't know what to say, but I just want you to know, I'm just trying to help you and I'm bound to get it wrong. But like, I just want you to know I'm here. I think people are so afraid of being wrong or emotion that they would rather like you said, stay away. And the staying away. If it was not a harmless action, I'd be like, Yeah, yeah cool you didn't know what to do don't worry about it go home but the staying away is is really harmful and what you're doing is you're saying your pain is so unbearable I can't bear it with you and I think that's like you wouldn't say that if someone's bag was really heavy you'd go oh mate I'll carry I'll carry it for you for five minutes and then I'll give it back that is what you're offering to do when you turn up or just send a text message just send a whatsapp being like hey just thinking of you do you think some a message like that is is better than saying something like quite generic

like anything you need I'm here for you yeah I mean because that's sort of like the automatic yeah response isn't it but I think you know I read a piece by Pernabel who I know went on your podcast about grief and the things we get wrong and she said you know these generic statements however well-intentioned they may be they're not actually that helpful because you're sort of putting the ball in the person who's grieving you're putting the ball in their court when that person has already got enough on their plate to deal with i would say if all you've got is generic let's start there like if literally you can only type if it's anything you need let me know and that's like making you uncomfortable send that but if you can get past that then yes i think be aware that when you're saying to someone if there's anything you need it's like saying to someone with a broken leg that's bleeding everywhere oh let me know if

you want a bandage or let me know if you want me to call the ambulance like they'd be like what do you mean just do it like what do you look at me so it's the same thing if someone's grieving they are in trauma they are in pain they're in sadness like just try and look at their life and think what do they need do they need someone to bring food around do they need someone to literally come on empty their do all their bins all over their house do they need someone to uh just turn up with like some milk and some eggs and some bread so they don't have to think about breakfast for a few days like there's so many little things you can do that don't require a lot of energy but so that's the thing and we're not asking you to like you know saintly come over and like change someone's world you don't have to

change someone's world but you know things like another thing I think is a really good tip put the anniversary in your phone so if you know when your parent like that person's parent or partner died just put um on a reminder in your calendar so then in six months time or a year later you're like oh god it's been a year since so-and-so's mom died I'll just drop her a text the week before. Like stuff like that is golden to people who are grieving because you just can't believe people remember it. It means so much because the world doesn't remember and the world is moving so fast

and it seems like no one else gives a crap about your pain. So yeah, the generic things are a helpful place to start. But if you can look at that phrase and then think, oh, is there actually something I could easily do like you know uh you know I I know they've got to go and visit their mom next week and the dad's dad like could I give them a lift could I walk them to the station like there's just really simple things if you are dating someone yes and say you've been with them for maybe a month or two months, not very long at all, and then suddenly they lose someone close to them.

Yeah. Do you think as a partner of someone who is grieving, you should try and push to support that person? Or if they push you away, you just accept it? What do you do in that situation? How can you help someone who you maybe don't know that well but you're you're at the beginning of a blossoming you know relationship and then something like this just sort of shits all over it yeah I've known that situation from other people and it's funny it either

what I've noticed which is obviously just my layman's um observations either the relationship breaks up immediately or those people get married like it either like destroys you or strengthens you so much that you're like this is it we've been through this shit we can get through anything so I think don't don't be obviously be upset but like don't be surprised if it breaks up because grief is one of the biggest experiences that we will all go through at some point and it is life-changing and similar to having a baby if you've had friends who have babies and you're like oh they have really changed it's the same thing when someone dies like you know the metaphor sometimes uses like the empty chair at the table like everything has to reform the whole family dynamic has to change that person's understanding of what life is

who they are their identity everything is smashed to pieces and when you are grieving it does feel like you're sort of burnt to the ground and you have to rebuild yourself and I think if you're at the start of a relationship it can be very hard to go oh I can't really think about you because all I'm doing is like surviving each day so I think grieving people can be quite selfish and I mean that like not in a negative judgmental way just like they have to be because they are in survival mode so I think that's why relationships break up because they they can't really see outside their own circle and it might be they can only see themselves or they can only see their immediate family and if you're new and

you haven't like wedged your way into into the unit yet then yeah you're you know last in first out um I think it's really it's really personal as well like depends on the grief if somebody's had an extremely traumatic sudden death like they're going to be in shock for about six months so you might get delayed grief you might be like oh you know my boyfriend or girlfriend is exactly the same. And then suddenly six months later, they're like, it's over. I'm grieving. You're like, what? We've been fine. So be aware that it can take a while for the grief to kind of sink in. for a long time they might be more prepared for it or they might be more somber about it like it's completely based you know case by case basis if somebody pushes you away it's really difficult I think you know I wouldn't want to advocate like no stay around like because that's stalking um if someone pushes away you might have to accept which is I can completely understand it's really really difficult that they are just not in a position to be in relationship with you and I hate to say it

but like if it's meant to be it's meant to be like grieving is not a permanent state like they will be changed forever but the initial sort of bomb drop of what grief does to you will calm down so it may very well be that somebody you know changes their whole life they move house they break up they change their job they move abroad and then a year later they're like oh sorry okay I've come back down to earth and I can reform my life so it doesn't necessarily mean it's completely over people can come back and go oh okay I'm ready to form relationships again but you are essentially dating a different person like that isn't the person you were dating before the death so I think that if that is

helpful to be like you're not breaking up with the person who's there that person sadly is also dead because that person had a dad or a mom and they don't anymore it was the season of chaos and all through the house not one person was stressing We'll be right back. you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not, just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push, find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Going back to losing a partner specifically, because I've seen this happen within my own

family and the disruption, you know, I'm sure it's the same for any other kind of dynamic, but the disruption lasts for years yeah it really does especially when it was in my case when it was very sudden I don't know if you listen to Elizabeth Gilbert talking on Fern Cotton's podcast about this she lost her partner Rhea yes yeah and amazing about grief god she's brilliant and she was talking about how one of the hardest things for her was just embracing the grief as opposed to trying to swallow it and trying to pretend that it's not there and trying to fight it because that just made it 10 times worse you have to just like lay back and and let a huge horrible depressing wave hit you how do you how do you do that how

do you just accept it I mean obviously that makes sense but how do you just embrace it as opposed to constantly pretending it's not happening I think it's really personal and lots of people do it in different ways and you will see people fighting it in lots of different ways so you know some people go out and get really pissed all the time or they start smoking or taking drugs or they are suddenly staying in and constantly watching television like we all have our own distraction techniques um so if you are with someone you can see that happening it's like unfortunately i feel like a bit not to compare it to depression but the same part of your brain lights up when you're grieving as when you're

depressed so obviously grief is not a mental illness it has a very clear you know timeline and why you feel like that way but there are similar effects so equally you know if someone's, if someone's depressed, someone's grieving is like, you can't rush them. They just have to do what they're going to do. And the other thing I'd say in terms of grief process, the thing we talk about on grief cast all the time, which I think is really hard for people to accept is they will never get over it. So I think people like to think, oh, maybe after three years, they'll be caught be cool no they will always be sad about this that's not say you won't be happy you can be happy you can move on you can have another partner but they will always like we said you know it's a crap metaphor but like

if you lost your leg and you did you know you would never be like you might adapt to not having that leg and you'd be completely fine and happy but you'd always be like oh yeah I did used to have a leg like that's what was there and I think especially with um partner loss like partner loss or parental loss or you know any any loss to be fair sometimes people are like oh there's your one year marker there's your two year marker not sure why she's still talking about it and I always caveat this with like you don't hear parents saying well my child's three I don't know why they still live with me like or you wouldn't turn around to your parents and say I don't need you to love or care about me anymore like relationships are relationships like if you love people you love people you will always miss them you will always wish that they were a part

of your life and they're not I think partner loss is a particularly interesting one because obviously when you lose a parent or a family member, you're not going to get another family member, for example. But people get stepdads and stepmoms. People get stepdads and stepmoms, they do. But I think the dynamic is slightly different when it comes to relationships because chances are you will find another romantic partner. Obviously they will be a different person

and they're not replacing the person you've lost but do you think there is an added pressure of of of like oh i can't be with someone new yet because i only lost this person however long ago i have to wait x amount of time before i move on i think all whether it's sibling partner parent child like it's it's always complicated because death is complicated um but yes particularly so I interviewed Simon Thomas um who lost his wife about 18 months ago I think very suddenly to blood cancer like extremely suddenly and um he's been very public with his grief and he came on my show and he talked about it

and I was disgusted by the people who tweeted him and told him that he'd moved on too quickly because he's now in a new relationship. You know, not to even justify it, it's like it's in the very early days. He's just, I think he's just dating someone. You do see that though. I think even with celebrities,

I'm thinking of like Lea Michele from Glee. Oh yeah, yeah. She lost Corey, I can't remember his last name, but the actor who died, who she starred in Glee with. I remember and then she got a new partner and people, trolls, they criticise her for moving on too quickly. It's a very strange phenomenon.

I was really shocked at it because the grief class is normally full of lovely people being lovely. So I was really shocked at that and I yeah I think if you even for a second think oh that's a bit quick one fuck you two just think how you would feel and I think that's it's really that you know the people who are moving on inverted commas too quick have had the same thought of like, is this okay? Am I betraying them?

All of this stuff. But people can want to be in relationships and can fall in love and that doesn't betray what they had. It really doesn't. And obviously there's individual circumstances and I get emails from children who are upset about their pet. They can be very personal circumstances, but generally it's very hard to know when the right time is and I think only you know and if

that is six months or 25 years it is up to you and do not listen to anybody else telling you like grief is such a personal thing and we all do it completely differently and the reason it's so personal is the relationship you had with that person is so unique. You know, like, I had a very different relationship to my brother, to my dad. You know, like, and we're siblings in the same family, grew up in the same house, but we related to that man completely differently.

And exactly the same with partner, like, your relationship with them would be different to all their other boyfriends and girlfriends that they had along the way. Like, it was unique. It was you plus that person created this so no one is allowed to tell you how to feel about it because no one else understands really do you think um from doing grief cast obviously you've spoken to so many fascinating people and heard their stories how do you how do you then

go home at the end of the day and move on from that? Because these are incredibly emotional, heartbreaking stories. And, you know, how do you hold it together? Well, I guess, you know, I joke about the show, like we call it the club. And I just always joke, like, I just got to the club early. Like, it was pretty empty when I got here and they were playing some bad tunes. But I put out some watsits and then one by one people come in and we're all gonna get here so I I don't find it as overwhelming as I used to obviously some people's stories are extremely overwhelming because some

people have been through unbelievable tragedy but what it's taught me is it's gonna happen to everybody we're all gonna die we're all gonna know someone that dies and actually what's weird what i now think is weird is the people who don't talk about it who don't see it who aren't prepared for it like and then you get people who are so shocked when it happened like they died like that is literally the only guarantee of anyone's life that they will die like it shouldn't really be shocking unless of of course, it's a tragic circumstance. So, yeah, it can be difficult. I watch a lot of, like, Queer Eye and Drag Race to get me through. Light, light entertainment, I think, is what helps me. Do you think that's also probably helpful for someone who is going through grief

to just, you know, disconnect your mind from it all by watching yeah whatever tv shows you like or yeah whatever gets you through like you know obviously the grief class is i would recommend a great resource there's books you can really get into the grief you can talk to other you know grievers and get into that community but also i would yeah thoroughly recommend just watching crap and a lot of people do and putting on crap music and I got into soaps when I was 15 I got obsessed and um I started watching and you know it's like in England you could watch stuff from like half five to nine and it's just soaps and then I when I added Emmerdale in my mum was like it's gone too far she was like what is going on that's when we knew oh this might be hitting

into actually avoiding the pain as opposed to comforting. So if you've added Emmerdale, guys, it might have gone too far. I loved going back to Elizabeth Gilbert, one of her tips. She said that she wakes up every morning since Rhea's death and she just dances. Yeah, she loves to dance, doesn't she?

Watch her on Instagram. She goes for it. Not all of us feel so free, but if you do... Yeah, I think dancing can be really we you know like whatever you need to do like we say on the show like if you need to go and get a big stick and walk into a wood and like bash the stick up like you need to go and punch a pillow you need to tear up a thousand pieces of paper or if you need to be very quiet like you have to get it out and everyone always tells grief is that and it can be

quite tricky because like well how do I do it it's like whatever your soul is telling you to do just do it as long as it doesn't harm you or someone else um don't be afraid of how of the answers that your body has I think sometimes you think I don't want to scream into my television it seems really weird but like just do it you'll feel better do you think um I don't want to scream into my television. It seems really weird. But like, just do it. You'll feel better. Do you think those five stages of grief that people talk about all the time, they were developed in the 60s by like an American? Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. Yeah.

Are those dated? Or are they real? Like how does, because I mean, what are they? It starts with denial. It's denial, bargaining. Denial, anger, bargaining bargaining depression uh and acceptance so my short answer is this bullshit yeah no offense to elizabeth kubler-ross but i hate it i don't it's not her fault it the thing you need to know about the five stages of grief it was designed for people

who were dying it was an essay written in the i think late 60s early 70s and it was designed for people who had a terminal illness so those were the five stages that someone with a terminal illness like cancer would go through that has no application for someone who is grieving if someone tells you you have cancer of course you might negotiate or deny it absolutely and then what happened was it was a very neat narrative and everyone was like oh does this apply to people dying because what we are obsessed with is looking for answers and what grief offers you is no answers and i think as humans that makes us feel very uncomfortable so if you read if someone has told you you should be in any fucking stage it is a lie there is no

stage you go what is now accepted in grief psychology is that the stages they're talking about not bullshit you go through them but you go around and round and round and there's a really nice one called um the ball in the box theory so like your grief is your life is this box and your grief at the beginning is a big huge messy ball that fills the whole box and then as your life as time goes on your life obviously gets bigger because more things happen and the box can get bigger and bigger and bigger but the grief is still there and at any point can bounce up and be like whoa it's exactly the same as it was the day it happened and it happened 21 years ago but it's a complicated mess that will you'll always carry with you the idea that you're going to reach an acceptance is something that harms people because they feel guilty and they think oh why am I not over it like I must

be doing it wrong you are not doing it wrong that was a theory that was not invented for you I get really annoyed it's funny because it goes back to the whole thing of just a misunderstanding about what grief is and I think if you ask anyone who maybe hasn't been through grief themselves, the five stages is probably the first thing they will think of when you ask them, how do you get through grief? What's the process? Because wouldn't we all love to believe

that there's a system? There's a system. And there's a stage. And like, it's like, okay, so you start with this and then in three months time, you'll be feeling this and then you'll be feeling that.

But obviously that you can't, you you can't bookmark your emotions. If I said to you there was like the five stages of love and after five years, you will marry them, you would be like, well, that's not true. Like obviously,

and by year one, you will deny them. But then you will negotiate with them and eventually you'll accept they live in your house. Like no one would accept that for love and love is deeply complicated and personal and unique

so you know what so is grief and it just drives me mad like we just would love to believe people who are not in grief would love to believe oh my friend's really grieving i'll know i'll tell them you've just got to go through these five stages babes and then you're going to be fine it's like no you're not your friend's going to be messy and snotty and sad for some time. Deal with it. Are there any stories you've listened to on the podcast that have affected you quite deeply? Yeah. And really struck a chord.

I mean, lots of them have. I would say the most recent one that really got me, I think, obviously, being a mother and particularly the situation that happened is an author called jason green so he wrote once more we saw stars and yeah his two year old daughter was killed by a piece of masonry that fell off a building it's the most heartbreaking story i read an excerpt from his book the other day it's awful it's just well it's funny actually in the interview i said to him it's so it's just well it's funny actually in the interview

i said to him it's so tragic and he said it's not tragic because tragedy has meaning this is a meaningless act and that really stuck with me because i was like how do you process something with you know we're talking about narrative and we're talking about except like how um i'd recommend well all the grief casts are interesting that is is a particularly heavy one. If you want a lighter one, try Adam Buxton. But Jason spoke so profoundly about what him and his family went through. And they have another child now, Harrison. Yeah, after her name was Greta, died. And he just spoke so profoundly about what I think is an incredibly extreme case of grief and trauma.

And yeah, that really saved me. If somebody can cope and walk through that situation and have that strength, I think it's surprisingly inspiring. It's time for our Lessons in Love segment. So this is where I ask every guest on the podcast to describe one lesson they've learned from their love and relationships experiences uh so Cariad yours is actually nothing to do with grief uh on the surface on the surface um do you want to describe what your lesson is yes so don't mistake how you want to be treated with how someone else would want to be treated uh and this is a lesson I've learned the hard way but also I've seen my friends do um so I think it's very common sometimes to like if your partner is being is grieving or sad or depressed and I hear people

and I you know it's mostly my female friends who I talk about relationships with being like oh well I did this and this for him and he was still annoyed and he was still sad and it took me years to understand that like just because you would want perhaps someone to keep asking you questions until you break uh or to talk to you till six in the morning they might not want that but i think we model behavior so we we offer behavior which is like well i would like it if this happened and i think it takes a lot of maturity and letting go of your own ego to look at someone and go what would they what did they need that might not be what I want to do so your way of helping someone might be really you might be really good at talking and you might really want to like talk it out and that partner

might be like I'm not ready to talk I need to be quiet and that might be really hard for you speaking from experience so especially if someone's grieving I think sometimes you get like well when I was grieving this is the other point that happens sometimes when you're king of the grief club you think well I know how everybody feels and you don't you know how you feel so you might thought well when I was sad when I was sad about my grandpa I did this and I wanted this so I'm going to do that to people but I think sometimes it's like knowing your audience and being like, well, actually that person, someone who likes to be quiet or they like to,

or they do like to talk about it or they like to be distracted. And I think sometimes we get obsessed with doing things for people that we want them to do back and then getting frustrated that they don't do them because they don't know that what you're doing is going, you know, when I bought you flowers and talked to you all night, that's actually what I wanted you to do

and that's why I did it for you because I thought you'd learn I thought you'd see it and go oh this is fun but that's not how sometimes you have to just really like really paint it out be like this is what I need from you yeah and this is what you know this is what I will give to you in return do you think it's do you think it's important in a relationship to sort of establish your needs as such early on? I think, you know, maybe if you get into an argument, for example, it can be helpful to know already, well, you know, when this person argues with me,

I know that they need space, for example. Whereas I might prefer to sort it out for example. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas I might prefer to sort it out right away. Yeah, yeah. I think that's probably quite a common example, isn't it? Yeah, and I definitely have that with my husband. I'm like, let's sort it out. Let's keep going till three in the morning. We screamed at each other.

He's like, I'd like to go to bed and think about it. Yeah, I'm the opposite. I'm like, I need space. I need time to think about this. I need, don't talk to me for a few hours and then I will come back with a clear mind. Yeah. See, I'm the hothead.

Let's just scream it out. And then it's sorted. And I married someone who is very much of the school of, I would like it to go away for a bit. So how do you deal with that? Yes, I think it's real compromise. So I think it's really important. I don't think you should smother your own needs and be like, oh, I'll only do what they want.

But I think definitely when he was grieving, because he's lost both his parents, I would try and do it the way I thought. Like, let's scream it out. Let's talk. Let's cry. And he was like, I think I just need to be left alone. And I was like, no, that's not how you do it.

So I think it's really important that, yeah, your own needs are expressed, but you have to acknowledge that not everyone and I was like no that's not how you do it so I think it's really important that yeah you don't your own needs are expressed but you have to acknowledge that not everyone is going to do the same as you so equally when you need space you have to accept that might be hard for someone who is not good with space who two hours later can't remember what they were upset about so they need to say it now so I think where we deal with it is like I will often say to all in the heat at the moment he will go away and then he'll come back and then I will then scream again but it's like if I have to be allowed to express myself otherwise like I'm terrible two hours later I find that really upsetting so I'm

like I'm done I forgot about it moved on so yeah you have to give space for both needs and accept that that might mean you being uncomfortable so if you were just like I need space it's like no you're gonna have to sit here for half an hour and get shouted at so that you can have half an hour space. It's tip-top. That's all we have time for this week on Millennial Love. Follow Independent Lifestyle on social media

to keep up to date with what's coming up on the show. And if you're a new listener, remember to subscribe to this series on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Acastast or wherever you listen also leave us a rating and comment with your thoughts on our conversation today until next time thanks a lot for listening goodbye whether you're in your running era pil Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program,

they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca.