Love Lives - Comedian Jack Barry on threesomes, lockdown sex, and why monogamy is outdated

Episode Date: September 29, 2022

This week, we’re joined by actor, writer, and stand-up comedian Jack Barry who discusses sex and comedy, and how he avoids joking about certain topics due to his privilege as a straight white man. Jack opens up about being in a non-monogamous relationship, debunks some of the myths around polyamoury, and argues that, with proper communication, being polyamorous can strengthen a relationship. We also discuss the darker side of comedy, and how abuse and harassment are still rife on the circuit for a lot of female comics.You can watch this episode and more on Independent TV: https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/millennial-loveCheck out Millennial Love on all major podcast platforms and Independent TV, and keep up to date @Millennial_Love on Instagram and TikTok.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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please contact Connects Ontario Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, a podcast from The Independent on everything to do with love, sexuality, identity and more. This week I am so excited to be joined by comedian and actor Jack Barry. You might have seen him in May Martin's Feel Good on Netflix or the Russell Howard Hour or The Duchess or many other things. If you were recently at the Edinburgh Fringe, you might have also seen him performing there. Today, he joins me on the show to discuss the world of stand-up comedy, turning your romantic life into jokes, and so much more. So, let's get started. Hello, Jack. How are you? Hello. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, thank you so much for being here. Oh, thank you so much for being here. So for those who aren't familiar with your comedy and what you do,

could you start us off just by introducing yourself and the work that you do? Yeah, I've been doing, I've been writing stand-up and various comedy, sort of online shorts and things like that for the last few years. I used to do a double act called twins which people might have seen at the Edinburgh Fringe a few years ago so yeah I've just got back from the fringe it was my 11th fringe I've been doing wow yeah I've been doing it since I was a student I used to do sort of like kooky sketch comedy when I was a plucky young student and then I've been doing sort of stand-up shows up there for the last six years or so and uh I do little bits

of acting as you mentioned and yeah that's I suppose that sort of sums it up I also like to read what kind of things do you read what are you reading oh I just said that as a joke I don't I read a lot of sci-fi at the moment I'm reading some sci-fi I've been reading uh um yeah just um uh some some escapism post fringe needed to needed to switch off a little bit yeah so I wanted to ask you about the fringe because it's so intense isn't it do you perform for the whole month yeah so you do your you have your sort of hour slot that you do every day for the month most people take one day off in the middle which sort of helps but it sort of slows you down as well and then you end up doing sort of other little and it doesn't sound like a lot just working an hour a day but there's sort of always other bits that you do and

no it does it sounds really intense yeah how did it go how was the crowd were some performances better than others did you get many oh always always some performances better than others so this year was great fun i really like my show and it was really fun and some of the shows were my favorite shows that i've ever done um i think generally from what i've heard actually audience numbers were down um sort of post pandemic someone told me that there was 25 percent less 600 000 less tickets sold at this fringe than in 2019 so it did feel a little bit quieter but for the most part i i had great crowds really nice audiences um there was a bin strike i don't know if you've seen that's been in the news a lot so that gave everything a vaguely apocalyptic vibe like in the last week it was a bit mad max there was like like tidal waves and tsunamis of

like rubbish like everywhere and there's just that was kind of that kind of gave it a bit of a bit Mad Max. There was like tidal waves and tsunamis of like rubbish, like everywhere. And there's just that was kind of that kind of gave it a bit of a bit of an edge. But for the most part, it was a really fun year. I was living with a great group of other comedians, Lou Sanders, Ray Badran, and a sort of cycle of Rob Carter, Luke McQueen and Lucy Pierman. We had a great group and um so it was very wholesome fringe i was doing lots of like yoga in the garden and and sort of things to keep me mindful and not lose my mind i feel like i just i mean i know you say that it doesn't sound like a lot of work i mean i think it does sound like a lot of work doing

performance every night for a month but like you must have to really take care of yourself. And I feel like that's almost the antithesis to what people think of the world of comedy, because it's always late night gigs and it's boozy and it's big drinking. And it's and it's and it actually you can't sustain that for a month if you're performing. Well, no, I mean, some people do and some people try to. And when I was younger, I used to manage it. Like I say, when I was going when I was a student, we'd sort of be out until five o'clock in the morning every night and then you'd be up handing out flyers the next day but i can't i can't do it anymore

and there's you know there's i think you either really lean into that as like uh and i think i've seen other comedians sort of um struggle a bit with the alcohol intake so i just sort of decided this year i was gonna like make sure it helped i had a late show i was on it like 10 40 at night this year so by the time i'd come out and had one beer it was already too late so i'd just go home and uh we did did make it a bit safer i think um but yeah i think it yeah i sort of realized quite early on doing this job i used to need like four pints every single time I did a gig. Otherwise, I'd be too nervous to get on stage. And then I sort of realized, well, hang on, if I'm having four pints before work every day, I go to work, then that's going to be a problem.

So I forced myself to be able to do it without alcohol a few years ago. And thankfully, I can still manage that. That sounds like a very good approach yeah now as I mentioned in the intro some people might recognize you from feel good which is a show that I just absolutely adored um and I know you've done some stand-up with May in the past and I've read somewhere that May once introduced you on stage as someone that they'd had a threesome with yes very helpfully yeah yeah they like to drop me in things like that sometimes when we're getting together how long have you guys known each other uh we know each other for about 10 years now I think met at the fringe um in the same sort of way

and then just sort of for a few years I remember going to latitude with May like a couple years after we'd met and May sort of quite earnestly said can we be friends and so then that was sort of that was the start really and um we had a gig in in Leeds together once I remember and like I woke and we got quite drunk after the show and I just woke up with like a reminder on my phone they say that May Martin is the coolest person you've ever met and so it was like those sorts of things sort of like fostered like a good friendship and um and yeah and then so yeah i supported them on tour for their uk tour at the end of last year which was great fun and no i love them very much they're one of my favorite people and i want to ask you a bit about you know how you talk about sex and relationships in your stand-up

because I know it's something that you do frequently and you know I ask any kind of writer comic or you know journalist who comes on this show who writes about sex and relationships and talks about their personal life how you go about navigating, turning real human stories into material. And I think it's a difficult, it's a difficult process, particularly when your stories often involve other people. I think everyone has like a different approach to it. I know I certainly have my own approach to it, but I'm interested to hear how you go about it and how you kind of impose those boundaries around it as well. Yeah, go about it and how you kind of impose those boundaries around it as well yeah I think it's something you have to be careful with and I don't know I sort of feel

especially nervous as a man sort of treading this thing I think there's always um a slight um obvious power imbalance with my privilege of being a man so i want to be really careful so like i would never have said on stage that i'd had a threesome with may but like i wouldn't i just wouldn't i wouldn't have felt like i had the power to do that but then once may mentioned it it's like okay well you put it out there that's that's for you and i'm fine with that um and so that's sort of how i that's sort of how I approach it, really. I'd never sort of say anything about a name of anybody that I'd ever had like a sexual relationship with unless they had sort of done it first. I talk about my partner a lot, Martina,

who's my main sexual partner, I suppose. It's a really weird way of putting it. And obviously I talk a lot about my relationship with her and I do check in with her about stuff like if she's okay if she's comfortable with me but thankfully she's extremely supportive and uh and finds it quite funny to hear me talk about our sex life on stage so um I wouldn't ever yeah I wouldn't ever say anything on stage that she wasn't comfortable with and that I hadn't checked first but yeah even sort of coming on podcasts like this and talking to her about it sometimes we have

like a little sort of chat beforehand about what might come up and what's good to say and what would be better not to say I think it's something that you've got to be really careful with the only

the only yeah i did a show a few years ago about my parents marriage which was the sort of diciest uh show i felt like in terms of talking about other people's situation but and and i'm sort of embarrassed to say it now but it sort of came from like a place of frustration for me my parents were basically like having trouble with their marriage and um and i just sort of kept on telling them they needed to go and talk to a professional like a couples therapist or something and and neither of them believe in therapy and couldn't understand why they'd bother to go and see a couples therapist couple of therapists isn't going to know us as well as you do you know us so you'll know and so they kept on sort of

using me for three free therapy and after a while I thought well if you're going to do this then I may as well get a show out of it so I sort of started talking about how I'd been their couples therapist in my show which I think at first they were a little bit annoyed about but then actually I think it was um I think it was the independent wanted to do a story about them at the fringe and suddenly they they were all okay with it I love that and did it did it help did it help them get to a better place do you think I think it did for a while I think um I think the problem is well I hope my parents don't listen to this, but basically I do think they have a problem with communication. And I think maybe, and I don't want to generalize, but I do think maybe quite a few older people i mean i don't want to be ages but from what from my experience is i feel like our generation and the generation below us are even better at like communicating and and talking about their feelings and um and i think uh yeah it helped for a time because they had me as a conduit

to sort of communicate with each other but actually what they really need is to carry on to and i i haven't been that conduit for the last few years so things have sort of built up again and really they need to talk to each other I think that's what a couples therapist does really it just helps you to say things that might be too awkward to say in a one-on-one situation especially once you've been with someone for 40 years and sometimes you've built up these defenses and you don't want to you know if anyone if you ever feel if anyone ever sort of really says how they feeling, I think people can feel attacked and can feel defensive. That's what I see in my parents' relationship anyway.

Was there anything when you were doing that show, when you were kind of leading up to that show, were there any things that you noticed in your parents' relationship that kind of made you reflect on your own relationship and think, Oh, this is something that I'm going to take and learn from? Definitely, definitely. A hundred percent. And, and, and that was sort of how my partner and I ended up being non-monogamous really. It was that almost, it started off as like a fun thing and it was like, oh, we'll have some threesomes with, with friends and like me. And, and, and it was like oh we'll have some threesomes with with friends and like me and uh and um and that was really fun and then it was sort of like oh what would it be like if if the

other person wasn't there and then it was sort of like looking at oh well if we are going to be together for the next 40 years which i hope we both hope we are um it seems like this might be a good way to um alleviate some of the pressure on a relationship um not to feel like one person has to provide you with all of your needs um and that was so so that did sort of come from um observing my parents um yeah I don't know I think you should yeah I'm always sort of trying to learn from watching my parents I suppose don't you like sort of what you end up talking about a lot in therapy isn't it oh god yeah I mean your parents set the precedent for all of your romantic relationships from such an early age i don't know if you've read that attachment book i haven't i keep hearing about this though people keep talking

to me about it it's so interesting and you just and you know there's obviously the philip larkin poem they fuck you up the mom and dad and they really do i know my problems in my relationships they're very well my parents i mean my kids are like my kids my relationships are very well my parents. I mean, my kids are divorced. My kids, my parents are divorced. Yeah. You know, my dad moved away from a very young age. So I know that there's a lot of, like, abandonment stuff and anxiety, attachment issues. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I think my parents probably should have got divorced about 10 years ago, but... And have sort of taught me that, like, toughing it out is not necessarily the best thing to do. And I think that can teach you, that can also teach you. And the important thing to say is it's not their fault, you know, like. No, of course not. Like I don't blame them. I don't feel angry with them. It's just,

that's life, isn't it? It's an impossible job. And raising a kid is, it's impossible not to impart some kind of weirdness or like insecurities or all of your baggage that you have you have to put it on them don't you yeah I want to ask you a bit about um non-monogamy because I think it's so interesting that this is becoming much more common particularly among um people our generation and younger as well um and I think it's something that people have a lot of misconceptions around. I think when people hear the word polyamory,

they think of people just kind of shagging around. And I think a lot of people assume it's sort of an excuse to get away with cheating as well. There's a lot of like misunderstandings around it, but I think the way that you put it, it helps to make a lot of sense that actually and also when you break it down it's almost like monogamy is the thing that doesn't make any sense yeah well yeah really I mean it's it's if you sort of look at the history of monogamy and even the sort of biology of of humans and and um I mean there's all these sort of amazing theories about like

uh genital sizes and apes and you know like sort of apes with larger genitals tend to um be more polyamorous than the ones with smaller genitals and and comparatively humans have bigger genitals and it's there's all these sorts of things. And I can't remember where I was going with that, but I, I, I do think, I do think a lot of people have like, there's a lot of people who have like the cliches of polyamory in their head. I think like, Oh, one person wants it more than the other. You know, they, they basically, they, they don't think the relationship's working. So this is like a halfway house to breaking up.

You know, they start shagging around before they break up. And I hope that we're, we just sort of, from a lot of communication and a lot of talking, it just sort of organically evolved, this situation with me and my partner. And it's really not not it's not perfect by any means and i'm not saying it's easy and there's things that you have to deal with especially with like jealousy or like your insecurities if your partner goes with somebody else and um but monogamy

isn't isn't isn't an easy ride either and i, I don't know if monogamy is necessarily outdated, but I certainly think the idea that that should be the default is outdated. I think we know now that there's so many different ways to live your life. You know, people can be men or women or trans or non-binary or anything, and they can be pansexual or asexual. There's all these different ways for humans to be and so the the relationships that humans can be in it would make sense that there can be as infinite different possibilities as well and i think even saying like we're polyamorous

like there's lots of different ways versions of polyamory as well. And I think really the main thing is just like constant communication with your partner to figure out what works best for you. This episode is brought to you by Google Pixel. I'm Jessie Crookshank. I host the number one comedy podcast called Phone a Friend. I also have three kids. I need help making every day easier. So I switched to Google Pixel. It's a phone powered by Gemini, your personal AI assistant. Gemini can help you summarize your unread emails, suggest what to make with the food in your fridge, and it helped me achieve a family photo where everyone is smiling at the camera. I didn't think it was possible, but it is with Google Pixel 9. Learn more at store.google.com.

Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not, just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. I think what you said about, you know, communication is obviously the most important thing. And I think that is often the thing that is lacking in a lot of monogamous relationships. And particularly when it comes to things like cheating, you know, that obviously leads to a lot of lying and a lot of

dishonesty and deception. And so I think, yeah, that's the worst thing that's the that's like the just having sex with somebody else that's not really that doesn't actually change anything in your relationship with your partner like you know they don't come back with some big mark on their body like you know I've been touched by another person it's the lying and it's the deceit that causes your your relationship to fall apart and um and yeah it's I just think jealousy like anything else is a sort of it's a it's a learned behavior and and we sort of get taught that this is how we should feel about things and I think you can unpick it as well and it's just a bad habit that we've all sort of got into and like you say it's just like I think with a lot of monogamy it's like

I think people just switch off in a monogamous relationship sometimes it's like well I've got this person and we're together now and that's it and we don't need to think about it anymore. And I think that is what causes sort of leads to people getting frustrated sometimes in monogamous relationships because they don't continue that dialogue of what do we want? What do we need? Definitely. And I think, you know, often what happens is then if that person is in a monogamous relationship you know like you say by default and then they find themselves feeling attracted to another person then there's those feelings of shame because it's like well I've been taught that that is a problem yeah to feel attracted to someone outside of my relationship and actually it doesn't have to be no and and then the default and then that's what makes them then lie yeah and deceive their partner when actually if you were just honest about it and spoke to your partner about it yeah exactly I mean it would be mad if you did just

stop finding other people attractive that's impossible like how that how could that work and I think people do feel guilty and I mean even talking from experience like my past relationship you know we sort of broke up because because she started having feelings for someone else. And she sort of said, well, you know, if if if this was the perfect relationship that we were going to be together for the rest of our lives, then I shouldn't be having these feelings towards anybody else. So, you know, that that must be a reason. And for my part at the time, I was more jealous than I am now and I was like well you know if you're having feelings towards somebody else then then there's something wrong with this relationship isn't there and um and yeah and and and I think that that is not

uncommon do you think we're getting to a place now then where polyamory is becoming more common um among among people of our generation I suppose you know older people maybe not necessarily but do you think it is becoming more and more common and we'll get to a point where monogamy is no longer seen as the norm or do you think we've still got a while to go until we get to that probably I think we've got a while I don't know I feel like just from having done my show, this fringe, so I've done it every day for a month and I have like a section in the show about being polyamorous and can tell, I could feel the frostiness of people in the audience when I bring it up

sometimes. Yeah. You get like every, I found basically it would go down well if there were other polyamorous people in the room, but very frequently there weren't. And so there were some people coming who were polyamorous and and and that was like nice to see and it was like oh right i don't feel so alone and mad like there are other people out here um but what do you think it is about it that people find so confronting do you think it's that it's like is it just that basic sense of otherness that they find threatening confronting do you think it's that it's like is it just that basic sense of otherness that they find threatening or do you think it kind of makes them like confront their own relationships and think you know bring they bring their own judgments and their own biases

yeah but almost people that feel threatened is like maybe they actually want to be polyamorous themselves yeah well i do sort of wonder that and yeah yeah yeah sometimes when i'm feeling a bit sort of confrontational i'll be like well everyone's just jealous aren't they you know they're annoyed that they there's other people who um are able to have these sort of sexually fulfilled lives and and they're not um but even i think it takes a degree it takes a degree of self-awareness and a degree of like self-worth to like almost allow yourself to do that if that's what you want yeah and move away from the societal script and I guess some people aren't there yet on their sort of personal journeys so no I don't think so I think maybe it's just too much of a jump for some people isn't it and I think it's and I get it you know

it's like I think a lot of people really want to feel safe in a relationship and they really, you know, we're all insecure beasts and we've all got lots of things that we worry about. And I think there's nothing more worrying than the thought of your partner going off and having sex with somebody else. And, you know, are they going to be better at sex than me? Are they going to make my partner happier than I do? Is my partner going to like them more than me? Are they going to be better at sex than me are they going to make my partner happier than I do is my partner going to like them more than me are they going to leave me for them um I know what you mean but my thought is more like as long as that partner is being like that's as long as that partner is being honest with me about that that's better than someone cheating on me and wondering that's what I find a bit mad about it really is because it's like, well, actually, there's no reason for them ever to leave you for somebody else. If if if they already have the option to go off and do that thing with that person, like really polyamory should take away a lot of that insecurity.

And I had a joke about that in my show. It's like, you know, if you're worried about your partner running off with somebody else, monogamy is not really the answer because because of this thing. Like if someone feels attracted to somebody else and they're in a monogamous relationship, they can't talk to their partner about it. It gets to the point that the only thing they can do is either lie and act on it and have an affair or end the relationship. relationship and actually if they had the option to go and explore that with that other person and be honest with their partner about it then then actually it saves the original relationship yeah I think that's the problem with monogamy is that the kind of the script of it and the way we've been conditioned to be monogamous is caught up in deception and lying yeah you know not being open yeah and not being a lot of people like i said aren't for whatever reason able to be open in their communication with a partner no and it's easy to lie and then you know it's it's uh even if when it's something

as as as simple as like do you think she's pretty and you know the amount of couples that you see was like no babe no i don't even look at any other way you know if i go to the zoo i don't even look at the girl animals like you're the only girl i've ever looked at and it's like well that's a lie immediately off the bat if you can't even be honest about well yeah obviously she's pretty and yeah yeah i find her attractive then then you're starting off on a base level of lying aren't you and it's like you've got to be able to at least communicate that without feeling too threatened you know yeah it's the lie it's the lies that's the problem I think yeah it really it's it's just a lot of people just that's their that's their instinct yeah I think that is sort of that is sort of what

we get taught I think and especially men I think it's a sort I think. And especially men, I think it's a sort of, it's a sort of, it's a part of toxic masculinity as well. It's like, well, men don't feel like they can be honest about their feelings. They feel nervous to tell women exactly what they think because they think that they're going to be judged because they've got these base primal instincts. Do you have a lot of friends who are polyamorous? Not really. these, these base primal, uh, instincts. Um, Do you have a lot of friends who are polyamorous? Not really. No. In fact, none. Apart from, apart from May, who's, um, who's just sort of navigating it. I think, um, a lot of my close friends don't, don't it at all and um give me all the usual things of

like oh well i'd go mad if my partner was off having sex with somebody else and um that can be hard because it's it's hard to it's hard to talk about with someone you know obviously it's good to talk to your partner and stuff but occasionally you do want to talk about stuff with somebody without other than your partner and you can But occasionally you do want to talk about stuff with somebody other than your partner. And you can't really when all of your friends are like, see, I told you, you know, it's like, oh, I'm feeling a bit funny about this at the moment. And people go, see, told you polyamory is a sham and it doesn't work. And it's all you're lying to yourself. And you go, no, everybody has problems in their relationship.

Everyone has to talk through stuff sometimes nothing's no there's no there's no formula for just clean sailing all the way through a long-term relationship yeah I think we have a very archaic view about what a relationship is supposed to be and I think actually polyamory and the responses that you've just described and people your friends having those reactions to it it shows that we're actually really not in the like progressive 2022 space that people think we are no I don't think so no no not no not here even I I I don't know if it's different in other countries but um but here I I do I mean I even read something talking of it being an archaic practice that the only reason you know monogamy ever got invented was to sort of make alliances with other tribes or you know

like when like in game of thrones it's like this country is going to marry this country so that we have an alliance and that's really the only reason that we have monogamy it's like you can just tie this person to this person um i mean presumably there was some sort of form of marriage before that but um that's so interesting yeah it's it's bizarre I mean the more I think about it the idea of marriage I find absolutely terrifying yeah also as a kid of divorced parents it makes it you know puts the fear of God well yeah yeah well my partner's a child of divorced parents as well so that might be more of why our relationship has turned into this as well she's a bit skeptical her grandparents are divorced as well she's like everyone gets divorced yeah but it's uh yeah i think um it is it does

feel a bit old-fashioned i mean especially the idea of marriage and marriage and that is also patriarchal if you really want to dig into that. And even wearing the virgin or white, the dad giving her away, her taking the name. I mean, like my partner's Argentinian and she doesn't know anybody who's ever given up their name. And she finds it absolutely bizarre how many people here do. She's like, it's such a cultural thing here in Argentina I she doesn't I don't know anyone who who's changed their name after getting married I wanted to ask you a bit about um because I know you did a bit of comedy about lockdown and lockdown sex and how that was obviously a very strange time for everyone yes people were

kind of talking about this like boom of babies post-lockdown because no one has anything to do but share and it's like actually is anyone really having sex in lockdown like we're sick at the sight of each other yeah yeah just to see you know looking back at that strange time how do you think that period of being locked down with your partner like affected your relationship um yeah i think definitely the point like yeah having said that I have got a niece now who was a lockdown baby because really yeah and my partner my partner's brother was like we didn't have anything to do other than shag at the beginning of the first lockdown um good for them yeah yeah good for them but like yeah I I'm really surprised by it I I I'd say that for the first couple of months we didn't we didn't have sex at all because it was such a scary time.

And it was like the thought of that. Yeah. And weirdly, like there, there was a point where I just remember us being really ratty with each other. And it was just like, it just got, it did get to a point, I think where we all just got a little bit cabin fevery with each other. Didn't we? I think it was sort of like around sort of february 2021 i remember um we were a little bit like we need to get out of this house and we need to spend some time with some other people um and she went back to argentina for a month then to see her family which was good i think we both were like we need a bit of space

from each other now um but actually when i think back to it now like in a way I do feel like it actually strengthened our relationship and and and in a lot of ways I've actually found it quite difficult um going back to normal life and um there were aspects of it even though it was awful um for the most part there were aspects of the lockdown that I found positive and one of them was that I got to spend so much time with her yeah I agree with you I think even though it was obviously a horrible time and it was a very intense time to be in a relationship with someone who you're living with because you had no one else to hang out with I think there was also something pleasantly simple about it and part the way of

life and just about not having to cook because you know life now you're navigating each other's diaries you're navigating social things you're navigating work things events and it it's a lot and it can feel sometimes like a chore to oh must remember to see my partner must remember to spend time with my partner and there was something really pure I think about that time in lockdown yeah and it's like we've got too much time let's do a jigsaw puzzle I've never done that with you before yeah but that's really sweet yeah that's what I mean yeah and I really liked it and it was like I'm not I don't I you know it's not like we'd ever moved to a cabin in the woods together or something you know like like some couples do I don't think we could handle that but now it is like we were just having a conversation about it yesterday we were like

god I really we really want to like do like a weekend away or something spend some time together but we haven't got any time until November because there's something happening and it's like stuff like that where you're looking at your diary and you're like oh god we literally don't have any time to do this for the next two months that's really depressing I know I think it's about it's about sort of trying to take those bits of lockdown that were positive and into finding ways to integrate them back into our life and actually so much of that I think is about just imposing boundaries around certain things and saying no more to certain things to prioritize your partner and it's it's hard to do that because I think particularly today we're sort of encouraged like say yes to everything take every opportunity don't miss out definitely definitely it's it's the sort

of grind culture isn't it it's like rise and grind we've got to be grinding we're we've got to be working the whole time if you've got work coming in then you're doing well and and um and I think yeah especially in the lockdown I was like this has taught me something about work-life balance I'm really enjoying not having to work too much and I'm going to learn from this and then the second I got opportunities I was like yes yes yes said yes to everything and I was like oh I haven't learned anything at all I could really yeah reassessing that. I think it takes time. It takes time. I want to go back to talking about Feel Good quickly

because I absolutely loved that show. One of the storylines in the second season of the show addresses how May's character had a sort of predatory, possibly abusive relationship with an older male comedian. And, you know, we touched on earlier the kind of, the world of comedy being so rooted in late nights, alcohol. And it's not hard to imagine something like that being quite common. And, you know, we all know about, you know,

every industry has, you know, their kind of Me Too aspects to it. There have been plenty of male comedians that have been accused of sexual abuse and sexual assault. So I just wanted to ask you, as someone who's in that world, do you think that is a situation that is improving? Does it still exist? How do we make it better? Very good questions that I don't necessarily...

I mean, is it improving? A bit, I think. does it still exist definitely yes um you do sort of hear stories and I think yeah like you say every industry's had like some high profile me too things happen but I feel like for each of those high profile thing that comes out there's about seven or eight that you hear about that nothing ever seems to come of and um i know that there are several whatsapp groups amongst female comedians um discussing who not to find yourself alone in a room with who not to you know don't do that person's gig don't go on and don't get in a car with him

um and so i think that like women are getting better at talking about it and and uh looking out for each other and flagging that kind of stuff up but the problem yeah the problem is is it is just the nature of the industry like you say it's lots of late nights so many people there's no like central body for comedy we don't work for a company there's no hr you can't go to someone if you're feeling uncomfortable about a situation it's just every night is a different situation with different people and it's ripe for abuse that um from like for the most part it's really fun and and even the sort of blurring of the lines between friends and work colleagues and i know a lot of people who've had sexual

relations with other people in the industry and a lot of the time that's been really positive and nice and um and so if if if people are acting in good faith it can be really good but unfortunately there are always like bad faith people who who can take advantage of it um totally and I suppose like what you mentioned like unlike industries like Hollywood or music I suppose because even within if you're what if you're working in those industries there's usually like a record label or a production company yeah who liable for your well-being whereas if you're a comedian particularly if you're a young woman comedian you know traveling doing various gigs you know you you might have a manager or someone looking out for you who's an individual.

But there's no necessarily like you said, like a body. No, no, no. Exactly. Even with most bands, they go on tour with like the same crew and they have like the tour manager and that's all managed. And like you say, if someone's in a film or a TV show, you know, that tv show will have producers and they'll have people who are overlooking the production and hopefully keeping an eye on it as we know they don't do a perfect job either but like um but yeah with comedy it's so like piecemeal and a lot of comedians book their own gigs and might just do one off gig for one promoter with one you know with a different lineup of comedians each night and so it's just all so disparate and and and the lines between what's friendly and and and flirty and what's professional and what's

inappropriate are very blurred a lot of the time and i do think yeah unfortunately yeah you yeah yeah there's and you hear just so many stories about comedians. We've all heard loads. And some of them come out, you know, like Louis C.K. was a high profile one a few years ago. And he was a hero of mine. He's a big reason I started doing stand up in the first place. And we all heard rumors about him doing inappropriate stuff before it came out.

And I was always like I can't believe it I don't think it's true and then it all came turned out to be true and and so now you hear lots of things about other people and there's none of it comes out and and so I am inclined to believe all of that now because it's um you've got to you've got to believe women and also it's usually true um that's the other thing isn't it i think we we have this like there are certain people who like don't believe all women like you shouldn't have like a blanket rule to just believe people just because they say something but then at the same time it's like who's gonna make that

false accusation like who's gonna who's gonna put themselves through the judgment of saying hey i was sexually assaulted or sexually attacked by by i don't know why would you put yourself through that it wasn't true i don't know yeah and and and again not to say it can't happen but i think the the the percentage of women who might make that up is so infinitesimally tiny that it's not worth worrying about really it's like the the vast vast vast majority of people who would say something about it it's because it's true and so I don't know why we're always focusing on um the vague possibility that someone might have made it up when the very real likelihood is like they don't they don't make it up and it's yeah well it's promising to hear that more people

talking about it and you know female comics in particular kind of telling each other about yeah people but it's you know it just because you got to hope that one day those people those accusations are maybe yeah you have you have but like i say there's always just like slight even if it's not anything as severe as like a sexual assault allegation, it's like you just see like older comedians being a bit creepy around the younger comedians. And, you know, it's, it's, there's always just these lines and it's like, okay, you're not really breaking any laws here, but you're not, it's not what you're doing is not not okay I don't know it makes me nervous to get old sometimes it might be a controversial thing to say but you're like god I hope I hope

that's just not a look comes with the with the territory of getting old I don't think so I don't think so I also think if you're having these conversations now I don't think there's any risk of that um it's the part of the show where I ask every guest to share a lesson in love. So this is something that you have learned from your previous relationship experiences that you'd like to share with the listeners, I guess, a piece of advice.

What would your lesson in love be for us today? Well, I suppose we've spoken a lot about communication and sort of honesty. supposed to be spoken a lot about communication and and and sort of uh honesty um i suppose another big thing that i've learned and i sometimes struggle with is is to really um try to take pleasure in your partner's uh pleasure even if you're not there even if you're not a part of it um some like old relationships that i've had have been real struggle because um they and I um would get FOMO you know and it's just like um and uh and so I think um I'm not articulating this very well but it's about it's about not being in a codependent relationship not being a codependent

and allowing your partner to go off and have fun on their own and sometimes you're gonna have a really fun time without them and sometimes you'll just be sat at home and you'll be quite bored and they'll be having the best time ever and sometimes it's hard for you to to deal with especially in poly with polyamory you know they might be having sex with another person and you might just be at home um but even if it's something i i you know even if it's something as simple as like they're off with their friends or something I think a lot of people really struggle to like um let go yeah I know what you mean I think so much of that is just about allowing yourselves autonomy within your relationship because just because you're with a partner you know it shouldn't

compromise time on your own or time with other people you know it shouldn't compromise time on your own or time with other people you know you shouldn't be in each other's pockets and I think you know an example of this I recently oh I am single but I just went away on my own for the first time yeah and I absolutely loved it yeah and I thought how this is something I would still want to be able to do even if I was with a partner yeah yeah and fair enough because actually it's really important I think to go away and just really prioritize yourself and just have no noise around you you don't have to be navigating anyone else's schedules in terms of you know self-awareness and learning who you are I think it's really

important and you should still be doing that even when you're in a relationship yeah definitely definitely finding time to and yeah being independent of each other which I think it can be quite scary sort of talking about that and because it makes it feel like yeah it's like what we're talking about with the with the sort of outdated idea of monogamy I think it kind of romanticizes codependence really, doesn't it? It's like all the language that we use, oh, my other half, you know, things like that. It's like the suggestion that you're only half a person unless you're with this other person and you can't function unless you're part of this unit. And it's like it's not very healthy. healthy and and um and i think when i talk about being polyamorous and my partner going off and doing things on her own and and us having sort of independent lives i think a lot of people who

are monogamous they sort of seem to pity me and make it it seems like i i we don't have a very close relationship and um because it is seen as so romantic to not be able to live without your partner, if your partner dies and you'll die to Romeo and Juliet, you um, and I think actually, yeah, sort of being, being able to be your own person, um, is, is really important. Yeah, I agree. I think that's a lovely note to end on. Um, I should tell the listeners that Jack is going on tour at the beginning of next year. So keep an eye out on his social media to get tickets for that. You can find him on Instagram and Twitter at I am Jack barry i did get that right yes absolutely perfect um all right and that is it for today thank you everyone so much for listening if you are a new listener to millennial love

you can subscribe to us on apple podcasts spotify acast or wherever else you like to listen to your podcasts you can comment and leave us a rating too so that more people can find us if you are more of a visuals kind of person you can watch us on Millennial Love on independent tv um we are not in the studio at the moment because we are currently changing offices but we will be back in the studio soon uh keep up to date with everything to do with the show on instagram you just have to search Millennial Love. I will see they can. Dr. Suzanne Simard and her team are connecting our future to nature. Their mother tree project could transform how we manage forests, capturing more carbon and safeguarding biodiversity for generations to come. At UBC, our researchers are answering today's most pressing questions. To learn how we're moving the world forward, visit ubc.ca forward happens here.