Love Lives - Falling in love in your 30s, with Camille Charrière

Episode Date: January 29, 2021

Support Millennial Love with a donation today: https://supporter.acast.com/millennialloveThis week, Olivia is joined by writer and broadcaster Camille Charrière to discuss the differences between dating in your 20s compared to your 30s.The duo examine why the relationships we seek in our 20s tend to be fervid and unstable, and how this can lead us to make poor choices in our love lives.Camille also discusses how she fell in love after being single for seven years and what makes this relationship, with her now fiancé, different from any other she's been in.They also discuss the complex art of compromise in a relationship, and how it's not always the best way forward. Finally, Camille explains why it is that people often lose friends when they get into a serious relationship.You can read Camille's article on this very subject here: www.harpersbazaar.com/uk/culture/a34587107/camille-charriere-love-in-your-30s/Follow the show on Instagram at @millennial_loveSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Where can I get help hiring people with disabilities? There are hundreds of thousands of Canadians with disabilities who are ready to work. And many local organizations are available to help you find qualified candidates and make your workplace more accessible and inclusive. Visit Canada.ca slash right here to connect with one near you today. A message from the Government of Canada. Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, a podcast from The Independent on everything to do with love, sexuality, identity and more. This week I'm very excited to be joined by writer and

broadcaster Camille Cherrier. Camille is best known for her work in the fashion industry. She is the co-host of the Fashion No Filter podcast, where she regularly interviews leading industry figures, and she also does a lot of TV work within the fashion world in France. But the main reason I was so keen to talk to her was because of an article she wrote for Harper's Bazaar about falling in love in your 30s. If you haven't read it, I'll put the link in the show notes. In the episode, we discussed what made her want to write the article, the differences between dating in your 20s compared to your 30s, and why learning to compromise is not always the best advice when it comes to navigating a relationship. We also talked about why it is that people lose friends when they get into a serious relationship, which is something that

people don't really discuss enough. Enjoy the show. Hi Camille, how are you? Hi Olivia, how are you? I'm good, thank you. I'm good, enjoying lockdown 3.0. How about you? Yeah, not enjoying this one so much um I have to say lockdown two was was my favorite the what the first was the first I thought was really hard and then the second I kind of got it got that one covered and now I'm now I'm really over it yeah and it's not so much it's not even so much being at home and because we've now perfected all our at home routines and working remotely and zooms and all of this that's fine it really is um hanging out with my tier three friends and people that you know that I wouldn't normally run into unless I made a date um and just going to a restaurant and all the things that make life so enjoyable and just

it was fine for a minute and now I'm just like will we ever get get it all back but we will we will I'm an optimist yeah I think I think you have to cling on to optimism don't you otherwise it's just too bleak to even fathom to think well this is just life now just all locked down pictures of old pictures in clubs and stuff and you're like how are they gonna let us do this again they must though they must let us I know I find the weirdest is when you're watching tv or films and you see people in club scenes or just like in a bar and you're like oh what does that feel like to just go for a drink I've been getting judgmental of people in films I watched something the other day and I

was like don't hug her and then I was like no no no it's okay they're allowed so Camille for those who don't follow you on Instagram um and if you don't by the way listeners you absolutely should she's one of my favorite people to follow uh could you please start us off by explaining a bit about what it is that you do? It's the dreaded question and you know what I know that I'm here today to talk about my love life. I can tell you that that is the one question that I always had to dance around when I got asked it by someone that I fancied because how do you explain and also like my friends always used to tell me that they knew when I was around people that I really liked because I would go into this

whole backstory of everything I've ever done to justify the fact that now I earn my money via Instagram but it's true like I have always found it really difficult to label what what it is that I do because so as you mentioned I have an Instagram account with a lot of followers which obviously I monetize and helps me pay the bills and as a result have been labeled an influencer a term that I don't love but it's true it does describe a part of what I do um I also write um I am a broadcaster I have a podcast I also have a tv show in France with a a tv channel called Canal Plus um and I mean I also do some I mean I'm a multi-hyphenate I mean I'm a slasher it's the generation of I do whatever I whatever I can get my hands on. And I've always struggled with that. I come from a family where everybody is doing very serious things.

And my parents are both intellectuals in that they're not interested in business at all. So don't even get them started on the creative industry. They don't understand that, but even, even business, they don't really, really get for them. even even business they don't really really get for them like success is measured in sort of what stimulates you and what makes you grow they're both one is one is a teacher and the other is a chemist so it's it's it's it's always been really difficult for me to kind of get to terms with what it is exactly that I do and be proud of it and I think I really struggled with that when I was dating because I convinced

myself that the reason I couldn't get a boyfriend was because of what I did for a living I don't know if it's true but it's certainly I don't think it helps to have a huge chunk of your life that is basically being played out in such a massive way online and where you're kind of projecting a version of yourself, which isn't necessarily the version that you want people to know about when you've not even met them, when they haven't had a chance to get to know you. to get to know you but do you think you were worried that men sorry I just want to ask do you think you were worried that men would judge you for making a comment I think I was worried I was an airhead and it's funny because I think when I was a bit younger I was a lot more arrogant about it I think as I've gotten a bit older I have actually I mean you are more arrogant in your 20s anyway like suddenly in your 30s you're like whoa I don't know what I was thinking but I had this I had I think I was confident and I was proud of like the fact that I was one of the trailblazers in my industry and that I'd I basically decided to leave my career in law and finance to go and do fashion. And then I then went from fashion to go and

being a freelancer and all that in a very short period of time, I started working in fashion age 26. And the reason I left my job was because I hated it. It wasn't because I had any opportunities or anything. And I just started like writing online it was a it was a really scary time for me because my parents were very upset with me they'd cut me off when I moved to London so I was sort of trying to survive in this city which is so expensive I didn't know anyone I had a boyfriend at the time who was English who was at Oxford but he was still studying and I was kind of bouncing around here on my own trying to like figure it out and it was I just remember finding it just really hard but but at the same

time because I was working in this space that was so talked about and it was so new when I entered a room people had so many questions for me and I remember just everybody was what's Instagram how on earth are you earning money from it like what is this thing fast forward like what is it five years and it's basically like our main tool of communication and how everybody's shopping communicating meeting people I mean it's it's huge but back then it really wasn't anything much so it's it's funny how it's become such a defining part of who I am and and with with men or even with just people in general when I was meeting them it's so funny because I never wanted people to know before I got talk and I would always do this kind of dance which is like yes well I mean I

I um and it just gets embarrassing you know like my my close friends would say to me like you shouldn't you shouldn't be so embarrassed about what you do you should own it and I have to say it's taken me meeting someone that actually accepts me for what I am to truly internalize those feelings and realize how harsh on myself I was being so yeah interesting because I think the space in which you occupy is in many ways it's much more female dominated space and I think that kind of fear of like imposter syndrome of thinking that men are going to think that you're vapid because of what it is that you do is obviously it's such a but it's not just men I mean I'm sure this I mean we could we could like Freud wouldn't need very long to like dissect this situation but I'm sure it's also because of like the way I would go home having like just like you know had a massive interview in Vogue or having just been sat at

dinner next to Bernard Arnault at like an incredible LVMH dinner or something. And some, my parents would say to me, like, are you ever planning on using your law degree? Are you ever planning on using? And I just feel like this is just never going to be good enough, is it? And because I saw myself through their eyes, you still often measure your success through the eyes of the people that care the most about you. I think I really struggled to, to, to see that the work that I did, did have value. And, and I think it was with everyone. I think it was, I think it was with everyone I think it was I think I really I think I really um I really have found it hard and even now I'm not saying I've got it figured out I still find it hard um people will come up to me people will come up to me often when they're drunk at parties

and say things like oh like you're not at all how I thought you would be. Or like, you know, I always have to defend you because like, you're so much better in person. And it's like, people don't realize how much that hurts, how much those kinds of things stay with you. That doesn't go away. You know, when, when people say that kind of thing to like, basically you're, you're better in real life than what you're projecting online, which thank God I would rather be better in real life and of course I'm better in real life online is just some warped reality anyway it's a curated version and it's work also it's not real and I know that but a lot of people still don't so it yeah it's

yeah comments like that really do stick like I think um I'm just reminded of when a guy I was dating for a while dumped me and he was kind of giving me his like explanation which is obviously one of those painful things that you know you have to hear um and he was saying you know I think um I think we're just not really very compatible and you know but I think you're really hot and funny but um you know I just don't think we would be together and still now you know this is two years later when I hear hot and funny you know those are two lovely things to say about someone but all I hear is hot funny not clever so superficial vapid obsessed with fashion like all you know the things that I write about it's fashion and dating and sex it's you know ostensibly it could be seen as superficial and all I heard from this guy who went to Oxford and was super clever was like you're not as clever as me therefore see you later

and it was just like oh it just really scarred me yeah I mean it's it's funny and like those early relationships really do define how you continue on to date. I mean, that breakup that I had with this guy, he's the person that I'd moved to England for. We went out for about four and a half years. And for me, and this was between the age, so I must have been from 22 to probably about 26. It was just before I left my career in the city to go into fashion and I thought I was going to marry him and when we broke up which was one of the most traumatic experiences in my life still is, it took me a really long time to get over that. The reason I wanted to get you on the

show was because you wrote this brilliant piece in Harper's Bazaar about what it feels like to fall in love in your 30s. So let's start with that. And if you would mind explaining what it was that made you actually just want to write that piece in the first place. I mean, I think I wanted to write the piece because I was single for seven years after this breakup that I was telling you about. I used to be a serial monogamist before this guy. I grew up in France where the dating rules are very different to here. You kind of float in and out of relationships incredibly easily because there's none of this sort of stages and labels. You know, you start off with we're seeing each other we're exclusive we're dating we're boyfriend we're girlfriend we're married we're and you know here there are

all these you have to have these conversations whereas in France kiss someone at a party sleep with them a few times you're together and that could be for two years two months two weeks two days it doesn't matter it's the same thing not saying that it's perfect people cheat a lot there's like that culture deeply ingrained that's just a cultural thing and it's not just men it's girls as well it's it's very well known um but it's it's just how it is so when I came out of this relationship that ended very very badly I was very scarred and at the same time my career I think I basically um um drowned myself in work and then my career took off which was great because that was a distraction but for seven years I was I mean I don't think I was a mess for seven years but

certainly for the first two three four years after being single I was a big mess and then after that I think when I was sort of or I thought ready for someone new really struggling to meet people or meet the right person and when I did meet someone that I really loved and with whom things connected and clicked just really quickly things were very easy and when the pandemic started and I was talking to some of my single friends and this is really why I wanted to write the piece I just I just remember like how stressful and lonely and frustrating it is when you're trying to talk to your friends about how you feel and everybody just says you know like oh don't worry it's going to be okay like don't worry like when when like you have to not look you have to just wait for the right person to come along and and when you

when when you'll find him you'll just know and it's just like what do you want about like it's and I just remember just feeling like it was never going to happen for me and it was happening to all the women I knew around me and that's why I wanted to write the piece not because I wanted to give lessons to anyone or be preachy I wanted to give people like that little nugget of hope that it's still there we we've been all falling in love for centuries and it's not a pandemic that's going to change that doesn't mean that things are easy at the moment but it's also remember it's good to remember that like that that love is out there it always has been it always will be and that's kind of the message that I wanted to get across I think it's really it's it's a really um easy

to empathize with kind of piece because you don't just kind of talk about it from like you said like a preachy point of view because you're you're engaged now for people who don't um know that listening to the show but you're not it's not you're coming at it being like I know everything because now I'm going to be happy forever it's like you really delve into you know mistakes that you made in your 20s which everyone makes in their love lives in their 20s in love and like, you know, chasing after the wrong people. But, you know, that's part of it. Like that's how you learn. not not only in the article but especially with my friends that are still single when they tell me about like you know this guy that they're chatting to who like has you know who's not

single but like and you just think god like this is me this is what I was doing a few months years And I think it's really hard to help someone see when they are forming attachments with people that are unavailable. And we always do it when we're kind of not ready to put in the work. And falling in love really, really taught me that because when I met this guy that I'm with, I had to change a lot of things about myself. Not saying I had to change completely as a person. This is also why I don't necessarily agree so much with everybody that says, like, do the work on yourself and then you've kind of started looking at the issues that you've kind of developed when growing up, because we do, you know, like we we form attachments and relationships with people and those going to affect us for the rest of our lives. And unless you want to pick those things like you will continue to make those mistakes so I do I'm a big advocate for therapy like I've been in therapy on and off since I was very young because when I was 17 I got really badly depressed and my parents didn't know how to cope with it and thankfully I met this incredible therapist who just helped me

how to talk my way out of it which I think has given me tools for the rest of my life because it happens and especially with the pandemic that I go through roller coasters of periods which I think has given me tools for the rest of my life because it happens and especially with the pandemic that I go through roller coasters of periods where I'm feeling really very low and I know that that's I you know like I just need to go and get help and I do and in getting that help I've also been able to like work on a lot of things that I think have been issues for me you know. You wrote in the piece that I think have been issues for me you know you wrote in the piece that you kind of in your 20s you only allowed yourself to fool the men that showed no interest within you um I think that's something that a lot of people can identify with including

myself uh do you think that's something that women are more predisposed to do than men I think so but not everyone does it's I think guys do it too I definitely have guy friends that do that it's it's different because guys hate to admit this but like they kind of do have the power like you get told all the time like you've got to play the game you mustn't be too keen you mustn't answer his message you mustn't blah blah blah you must it's exhausting and I remember I never followed any of those rules like I was if I want if I figured that I wanted if I liked someone I would make things happen to try and get him interested obviously it never works because you can't really get someone interested

in you the fact is someone is interested or they're not um but I don't know if it's women that do it more than men I think we're not that different it's just that the way the structure of is it the patriarchal society I don't know if it's I mean it must be it's just we've been told that we have to be pretty and wait for someone to just come along and choose us and if you are too keen too successful too too loud to to anything that they're going to run away and I mean I really hate that idea and I have to say like the person that I've met I've the reason I think I'm so happy with him is that although I've had to do a lot of work on some of the things that perhaps were a little bit dysfunctional about me he a hundred percent a hundred percent doesn't want to change me in in any sense of the word so the things I've changed I've changed them because

I've realized that it's going to make me happier not because he's wanted me to be different and that is I think a very big difference. Yeah, totally. And I think you're right about what you said about the patriarchy. It's like culturally women are taught that, yeah, you are the needy ones. You are the one that needs to change yourself. You are the one that can't be too keen. But you're right.

Like, you know, when the roles are reversed, if a guy is too keen, that can easily... Girls don't like it either. Yeah, exactly. reversed if if a guy is too keen that can easily feel like it either yeah when I was single and guys were basically when anybody liked me I'd be like no thank you he's texting me he's being really nice no I don't want that one and my friends would be like I don't get it cam like can't you at least date him and I'd be like no no I want that one that for six months has said that he doesn't want me the William in my article because yeah it's just the way we treat ourselves the way we see ourselves is what we expect others to to do and if someone is being nice to you but you don't really like yourself you're going to

not trust them you're going to think whoa wait a minute what's going on here if he likes me then then he's not he's got he's got issues basically yeah it's also I think it's also about the way that the kind of the chase and the pursuit of like unrequited love is made to seem so exciting and meaningful and dramatic in popular culture that it's something we crave it's a distraction like I've realized that now it's taken me a really long time and being in a relationship and realizing how hard a relationship is a relationship is made of a lot of compromise it's not at all as like well especially in a pandemic where you're really literally having to dance around each other in one room and you know like just basically being because a lot of like a lot

of the attraction relationship is like that like missing each other and you know like forming desire by like um you know like creating that that missing that wanting obviously we can't do any of that now and you mentioned so you mentioned William who you talk about in the piece, um so for those who haven't read it can you explain how, so he was someone who you were kind of chasing after who hadn't expressed any interest in you but you, you did, you, you were determined which again is something that I think. He didn't express no interest, he didn't express no interest. He didn't string me along but we we did like sleep together a few times and I mean it's it I I used him as an example because there were several like him throughout the years and it was always the same but none was none was as intense for me as he was I think with time I

got better at like regulating myself but it did last for about a year and a half and it was there was nothing going on between us nothing and I wouldn't date anyone else I would I would I would make sure to run into him I would I would befriend all of his best friends so that I would know like where he'd be and I didn't even do it like it wasn't even done in a kind of like I wasn't being like super I mean obviously I was stalking and stuff but it was I can't really explain it I didn't do it like thinking like okay this is how you're going to get him it's like that's all I wanted and it I don't think I even did it like thinking I was going to get him in the end it's just there wasn't anything else that I wanted to

do and all my friends who were trying to say to me, like, like, look at all these incredible guys that are like interested in you and that want to date you. And I just couldn't see it. I just couldn't. And I think that's also when you realize that you're a little bit of a commitment phobe and people would say this to me, they were like, I think you're probably not ready. And I was like, of course I'm ready. Like I've've look I've been in very serious relationships I've had my heart broken I've rebuilt myself of course I'm ready but that doesn't make you ready that just that just means that you want to be with someone it's two different things. I think it's so interesting in that situation because the more you kind of become infatuated

with someone who isn't necessarily giving you the response that you want and the longer it goes on for it kind of becomes less about the person and more about the narrative you've created in your head doesn't it? You project the idea of what a relationship is onto them and because you because it's not real because it's not a real relationship it becomes gigantic because I think a real relationship is so much more complex and you have much less control in a real relationship because when the other person is a real person they're obviously they obviously are very complex and they have like their own set of wants and needs and desires and you can't just pigeonhole them into whatever you think a relationship is you have what I said

earlier you have to compromise on a lot of things and it's being in a relationship that has made me realize that actually a lot of the things I thought a relationship was going to be in my 30s because obviously in your 20s it's very different you're you're you're I think you're much more of an idealist in your 20s you want the passion you want you know like that never-ending like you want to always be around each other and like it almost hurts being in love it's painful and you're very jealous and you get very like you're very needy you you're always picking fights they're very dramatic like you can cry yourself to sleep I mean I don't do any of that now and sometimes I wonder I'm like it's weird because I've I've never felt this in love with anyone and I thought that I was going

to have to deal with all those issues for the rest of my life being like jealous and and and all those many many not very nice qualities um but it's not the case because when you meet someone that actually meets you in the middle and treats you with respect you don't have to behave like that anymore it's very it's much more level-headed and it's and it's much easier and I think that's what people mean when they say it's easier they don't mean the relationship is easy they don't mean like you don't come across all these really really intense hardships that make up life there are lots of them and that's what my mum always used to tell me she always said to me like she was like you you're always trying to pick these men

that are fun or loud she's like you need to pick someone nice who's a rock because life is really hard and you need someone who's going to be by your side no matter what because it's going to be difficult and I mean we've we've we've gone through a year and a half now, and we've only been going out for about a year and a half. And my partner lost his mother in January last year, and it was followed by a pandemic. And being locked up when you've just lost a parent, not being able to see his two siblings, and they don't have a dad.

So the whole thing was very difficult and I think that just made us stronger it I'm not saying it was easy it's not it's still not easy um and even being sort of newly engaged I didn't expect all these ideals that I had when I was younger about what it would be to be engaged I mean we've not even been able to have our friends around for drinks most of my friends haven't even seen us together even though like we've been together for a year and a half because we haven't been able to because of the pandemic and that's fine because like we've just had to deal with what life throws at us and I'm confident in the fact that that's what a relation is it's a

partner with who you just have it's companionship you know, it's someone to get through it all. And I think that's what a real relationship is. This Giving Tuesday, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health is on a mission to make better mental health care for all a reality. And we've made incredible strides forward, breaking down stigma, improving access to care, and pioneering research breakthroughs. But now is the time to aim even higher. Together, we can create a world where no one is left behind. Donate at CAMH.ca from November 25th to December 3rd, and your gift will be doubled for twice the impact. 5th to December 3rd and your gift will be doubled for twice the impact.

Where can I get help hiring people with disabilities? There are hundreds of thousands of Canadians with disabilities who are ready to work and many local organizations are available to help you find qualified candidates and make your workplace more accessible and inclusive. Visit Canada.ca slash right here to connect with one near you today. A message from the Government of Canada. I don't know if this is like hard facts, but having spoken to most of my friends that are single throughout what's happened to them throughout this time most of them found someone to bubble up with for the first lockdown went into this really intense love bubble up until the second lockdown and early whatever it was when

we got let out and then it's all burst apart like in this third lockdown and it's like everything has been heightened and I think it's been really hard for relationships to get off the ground because individually what we're going through is so hard I mean I don't know about you, but my, my emotions are so up and down. And on Sundays, I'm literally like the most grateful person in the world. And like, I only see the positives and I'm, I'm, I, I'm able to really take like all the tiny little things that make a day great. Like, you know, I'll be, I'll be like walking down the street and I'll be like, Oh my God, the sky's so blue blue and I'm so happy I live in London and I'm so lucky and then the next day I'm just

can't get out of bed I mean and I've always been like that I'm very I've or it's something what it's it I've always felt I get these really high these really natural highs and then these really big lows but I've never wanted to kind of when I have been very low people always trying to say to me like maybe you need to like you know like um um regulate that medically and I'm always like I don't really want to because the highs that I get are great and and I think it is about just you know finding that balance between the two and learning, like, you know, learning how to develop your own mechanisms to cope with that. I'm so similar to that. I have such, such like irrational highs and lows. And I think that really affects my relationships as well. I mean, for example, I took my kitten to the vet yesterday and just for vaccines like for her first

vet appointment and I was so overwhelmed with emotion I was in separation anxiety I was crying outside the vet for like half an hour on my own and then and then I was in such a bad mood all day it's like I have but then you know today I you know I've been like oh like you said the sun is so bright and I'm so grateful and look at my beautiful little kitten and it obviously affects the way you are in relationships as well I wonder if that's I always funny because my boyfriend I I admire him a lot because he's actually gone through a lot um these last few years like I I would say arguably more so than I have but but he doesn't put any of his shit onto me like he doesn't allow his mood to be um to affect me and it's funny because I think I used to have savior complex I always used to want

I'm a very optimistic and I I think I'm a very like it on a good day obviously but I think I used to have saviour complex. I always used to want, I'm a very optimistic and I think I'm a very like, on a good day, obviously, but I think I'm someone that can bear a lot. And I always ended up with very dark characters. And I always felt that I was going to be the one to like, you know, save them, bring them, bring them, bring them back to being happy or whatever it is and obviously you can't do that the only person that can help um you is yourself always that's a fact um but with this situation the most interesting part of it is that when François like started

having things um that were complicated in his life instead of making me feel like I had to bear them with him I remember having a conversation with him where he was like um yeah obviously I'm going through all of this but don't worry like um you've got your own shit to handle like I I why don't you why don't you basically deal with that and I remember it was this really like hard moment where I realized shit I'm gonna have to deal with my own because obviously I have a lot of unresolved issues and things that I've been pushing off and I think that's also what I did throughout my 20s I distracted myself with everything, with work, with men, with traveling.

I was doing so much. And I think I was doing that so as not to feel, I think I was not happy. And I think I was basically trying to distract myself into oblivion because I was trying to like, do like, yeah, just not think about the things that that needed fixing within me and I would surround myself with people that um had problems that were bigger than mine so as to help focus on theirs and spend hours on the phone with girlfriends you know trying to fix them and trying to help them and introducing them to therapists and and it was it took this guy like you know saying and he and as I said he does have real things like losing a parent is a huge thing to go through like

and and I'm not going to go into his issues because those are him those are his but it took him saying like you know like lifting that off my shoulders and saying like no no babe like this is not on you this is my shit I'm gonna deal with that you go and look at your stuff because believe me there's a lot of it and it was it was that for me was a revelation and it's not that I didn't know that before it's just that I I don't think I wanted to I don't think I wanted to look at my own problems I don't think I wanted to look at my own problems. I don't think I wanted to admit, like, even the things we were talking about at the very early, very beginning of this episode, like how my relationship with my work made me feel like

all these things that I have to deal with in order to become myself and a better person and to stop like berating myself. Like, well, first of all, you have to face them head on. If you're going to pretend that they're not there, you're going to deal with them so yeah I think it's that's a big part of like finding a healthy balance in a relationship yeah I think it's such a healthy balance to try and strike the difference between like dealing with your own shit and being there for your partner to a degree but not becoming the sole person with whom they depend on because then

that obviously affects your dynamic and then it's like well it's almost like there's a then a shift in the power dynamic where it's like well one person is the carer and one person is the kind of yeah suffering in a way being codependent I think in your 20s you strive for codependent relationships you know you can't live without each other and the highs and lows are so intense and I think that that just doesn't doesn't really work in the real world because you don't have time for a codependent relationship it's just too exhausting um finally I want to ask you about having different interests with a partner because I know that this is something you've spoken about on Fashion No Filter which I love and I remember you spoke on the show about how

you and your fiancee have quite different tastes in films and that is something that I can relate to so much. This is going to sound very first world problems but we're very in love and very happy let me just start but we've been having big issues the number one issue is choosing a film and this sounds really trivial but it's not because it is a pandemic and actually what we want to what we're doing in the evening is basically the only thing that we're doing when we're not working so he's he's a film producer and a director and he is um he's got incredible taste and and loves to dive into like old movies and has watched all like um all old school cinema and japanese cinema and everything.

And I'm like, can we watch chick flick or can we watch like reality TV? And we just couldn't agree on that. And the only thing that we've been able to find to make this okay, because it has actually created really big problems in our relationship where we've been really upset with each other is that we're now in a situation where one of us watches something on the big TV whilst the other one lies next to them and watch something on the laptop with the speakers on because I sulk if I'm made to watch something that I don't want and he's very upset with me if

he has to watch something that he doesn't like so we've just realized that that's not going to work I mean films is a small thing one of the other things that we found we really don't agree on and which I think is a much bigger thing because the film whatever like once the pandemic is over we can both go our separate ways and see our mates in the evening and it's going to be great but we have found that we really don't agree on where we where we like to go on holiday again sounds trivial but again your holiday is the one time in your year where you sort of you know you pick and choose somewhere to just to to go and relax and you obviously want it to be perfect and he's a surfer he only wants to go where there are

waves and he only ever wants to go where there are waves at a certain time of year whereas all I want to do is go to the Mediterranean or go and eat pasta in Italy and relax and it's it's been complicated when we first started going out um he wanted to go to Bali for the summer and we'd we'd just fallen in love we were madly in love and I hadn't been in love for seven years and we got into this really big argument because he wanted to go to Bali and I said I'm not going to Bali in the summer like Europe we go to Europe in the summer this is why we live in Europe if not I would live in New York we have all these incredible destinations on our doorstep you can go to Greece you can go. You can go to Greece, you can go to Italy, you can go to France, you can go to Portugal,

you can go to Sicily, like it's all amazing everywhere you go there's different culture, there's different language, there's different food. It's mind-blowing and it's easy and and it's also like my favorite thing to do. It's just one of the great joys of life to being able to god brexit anyway um you're right it's also it's like going on holiday is so important because like you said it's about how you how you relax together and you don't think that it is but we we got into a huge tiff and I thought it might end the relationship because it almost did and in the end we agreed that I would go to Ibiza he would go to Bali and it was a very it was a very testing moment for our relationship because I kept on saying to my girlfriends I don't think this is

normal like we've we're really really in love we should be wanting to spend our first holidays together but I think that's what made us because actually admitting that we didn't want the same thing, but also admitting that neither of us was prepared to compromise on that thing. Because for me, a holiday is very important to him. A holiday is very important. And we both agreed that for various reasons, we, I needed to be somewhere where I was going to be able to run into some friends and you know do the things I wanted to do he needed to be able to surf and it was admitting that that was something that we were not able to compromise on on where on other things we are on that we are not well that's and that's something that we've now agreed on and now I let him go off and do his surfing holidays and

I go and do things with my girlfriends and it was a big thing for us to admit because couples a couple's retreat is really important part of relationship but we've now realized that unless we give ourselves that time where we each can go to the things that we want to go and do it's not going to work between us yeah so it's so it's it's really good that you recognize that so early as well because I think if you keep trying to find a compromise, which is what we're kind of told to do, like, you know, relationships are all about compromise, and to a degree it is, but also, like you said, it's so important to recognise the things that actually, you know what, it's just not going to work for us to compromise on this particular thing, because those individual things mean too much to us, you know, whether it's like like where you're on holiday or films or anything really yeah it's funny it's funny because that that article that I wrote for Harper's you know when I posted that picture of him in the bath he doesn't really like that I post too much about him on Instagram and he specifically told me do not post that picture to Instagram and on the day the article came out I wanted to share something that felt intimate to accompany

the piece because because it had taken me a really long time to go that deep into my relationship and I wanted it to feel like I was sharing something and he came home he was furious with me he was like I told you not to post that blah blah and he hadn't written he hadn't read the article and um and I really thought we were going to be in trouble over that and he came he came back and he said look I've read I've read the article and not only am I um really happy to see that like you've you've done this but also like it's nice to have someone that actually doesn't always do exactly what I tell her and it was that weird thing where I think there is something to be said standing your ground not time not all the time like obviously a

relationship is made up a compromise but you also have to know what's good for you what are the things that are important to you and you can't always be a yes person you also have to know where your boundaries lie and sometimes you have to push their boundaries because it that you can't always be agreeing to what someone else wants you to do okay so it's time for our lessons in love segment of the show I think we've spoken about quite a lot of lessons during the episode anyway um but is there anything else you have left to share camille like something you've learned from your previous relationship experiences perhaps about love i've learned more than anything that you can't change people and that it's not your job to change people even if you think you're doing it to help them

and to to make them feel better or um anything basically um it's not going to work the only person that can change someone is themselves and you are going to exhaust yourself by trying to make someone um become whatever you think that they need to be and I think this is why I spend a lot of time dating people that were younger than me people would always tell me that it wasn't going to work and I kind of never much younger like a few years or younger okay I did a lot of snogging 21 year olds on the dance floor. But I mean, it was also because I think it was just fun. But the truth is, I think we all develop at different stages. And you need to meet someone that is at the same stage as you

because you're not going to be able to pull someone out. You know, when someone is not ready, they're not ready. It's not because they haven't met the right person necessarily it could also just mean they're just not there yet and I think you always automatically thinking that you're going to be the person that's going to make them feel differently it's not it doesn't work like that because the variables in someone's life are not just about finding the perfect partner you You know, your family comes into that, your job comes into that, your way you live comes into that.

All these really big things are going to have a very serious impact on who you are at any given time. And sometimes if someone's not replying or not giving you back what you want, it could just be that they've just got a lot going on that they have to deal with. And it's got nothing to do with you and so I think it's about letting go and realizing that focus on yourself and that will attract the right kind of

people around you yeah it's funny how you mentioned about the age thing, because I think that is also actually quite relevant in a way, because age differences in relationships, they only matter, you know, if it's more than five years or so. They only matter if, like you said, you are at different stages in your life. So obviously a 21 year old is going to be at a completely different stage in their life to a 30 year old. And it's not about that. And it's not about that, but not necessarily, because if it's a 21 year old that's, I don't know, had like a massive career burst and like, I don't know, has become a pop star, whatever. And it's not going to be able to connect with anyone their age because no one understands what they're going through. Maybe it would be someone a little bit older that would work for them. So I think age is not what matters it's where you are in that development stage and that's why age matters in the sense that when we are a bit younger we do tend to develop more or less at the same stage you know like you you're at university you get your first boyfriend your first love it your first breakup and you're all kind of going through that more or less at the same time and then suddenly real life hits and then it's

just you're in the big big big world and it's no longer it just doesn't work with anymore because we all then um you know like we don't all get the same job opportunities you know like you don't fall in love at the same time anymore you don't have kids at the same time like all these things that I mean that's the thing that I'm finding right now there is a big difference between how I'm living my life and my girlfriends that have got children and I I can see how how the gap has you know just just um expanded between our lives and that's not to say we don't still get along and we obviously still do but it's true that we are completely different stages I there are some aspects of her of their lives that

I just cannot relate to even though I want to I desperately want to understand what they're going through to be able to be there for them but as as a single person you just can't you can't understand what it's like having to like manage like children and having to doing homeschooling and not having any time for yourself and having to get up every morning when they decide they want it it's completely different life it's a completely different life and that's okay but that that's what I mean I think like the the stages that we develop at are what what we need to listen to when we are looking for our relationships and I mean for our friendships as well I mean I've had a very painful year in terms of having to

shred some friendships because having having done a lot of work and having spent some time you know sort of trying to grow up a little bit. I had, I have had to admit that a lot of the relationships that I were cultivating in my friendships were incredibly toxic and they just were not able to come with me, not because I didn't want them to, but because they were not, they didn't want to. The mirror that I was giving off, like where I was going was not what they wanted. And I've really struggled with that because I've I didn't expect that meeting a boyfriend would mean losing friends but it has and it's not something that I've done I don't think I've become that person who has met someone and therefore everything has become about

my relationship it's not that it's just that suddenly you're no longer the fun single friend that's always available that's always on the phone that's always like up for a night out that's like crying because she's not feeling great because a guy another guy has ghosted her and suddenly you're building something completely different and you're not able to relate in the same way as you used to I think that makes a lot of sense though and it's also it's not necessarily a bad thing I think that makes a lot of sense, though. And it's also it's not necessarily a bad thing. I think it's a natural part of growing up and, you know, just getting older and changing, changing as your life changes. But also, I think a lot of friendships that we have, you know, that we have friends for different things. We might just have friends that are just great for going out with and partying with, but those aren't necessarily the friends that we are going to carry with us

through the rest of our lives because they aren't as deeply rooted as some of our other friendships that are based more on like mutual understandings of the world, you know? Those are the ones that are going to last the difference. And that's okay. Like it's okay to have friends for different things.

But it is something that's not, I mean, that's not talked about much that when you meet someone and suddenly settle down there is a lot of loss that happens in your life at the same time because people that were bouncing around with you and that were always there for you and so supportive of the single version that of yourself suddenly are not interested anymore and that hurts it does hurt you suddenly think whoa um I didn't realize that that was a condition yeah and it it yeah it's it's painful and I think I've spoken to a lot of my friends who've gone through something similar who've lost female

friends when they've when they've um when they've met their partner and you've really you've really um taken taken a while to get over those losses because we don't really talk about losing friends as much as we do about heartbreak and it's I think it's just as hard if not harder losing a friend that's it for today thank you so much listening. If you're a new listener to this show, you can subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Acast or anywhere else. You can comment and leave us a rating too so that more people can find us. Keep up with everything to do with the show on Instagram. Just search Millennial Love. See you soon. knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton.

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