Love Lives - How do our relationships impact our body confidence?

Episode Date: November 20, 2020

Support Millennial Love with a donation today: https://supporter.acast.com/millennialloveThis week, Olivia is joined by body positivity activist, Felicity Hayward to discuss how relationships affect body confidence.The two talk about overcoming insecurities we have about our bodies and how these can be highlighted when we get intimate with our romantic partners.They also discuss the historically problematic marketing of lingerie and the long-lasting damage caused by the Victoria’s Secret show when it comes to body image.Follow the show on Instagram at @millennial_loveSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, a podcast from The Independent on everything to do with love, sexuality, identity and more. This week, I'm very excited to be joined by body positivity activist Felicity Hayward to discuss how relationships affect body confidence. We talk about overcoming insecurities we have with our bodies and how these can actually be highlighted when we get intimate with our romantic partners. We also discuss lingerie and the long-lasting damage caused by the Victoria's Secret show, which of course has since been cancelled. Enjoy the show! which of course has since been cancelled. Enjoy the show! Hi Felicity! Hi babes! How are you doing? Yeah not bad, I actually got decided to get dressed today, put some earrings on for you. I'm flattered, thank you. I'm actually also wearing earrings

myself, which is also very rare because obviously we are both at home and I am in pajamas um anyway putting that aside um could you just start us off by telling the listeners a bit about what it is that you do so I am a plus size model and body positive activist and I run a brand slash movement called self-love brings beauty and I've been modeling for nearly nine years now so I was one of the first plus-size models in the UK um and yeah that's that's kind of I mean if you want me to go really into detail with it I got scouted in an East London pub dancing to Diana Ross and got asked to do a shoot as Anna Nicole Smith.

And then I got signed and the rest is history. Wow. Short version. And the agency that you were signed to, were they taking on plus size models at the time? Or like you said, you were one of the first ones. Yeah, there was maybe myself and like maybe two others at the time or you like you said you were one of the first ones yeah they there was maybe myself and like maybe two others at the time but they were when I say plus size they were about a

size 12 so it was you know um I was very much of the plus size size I was you know size 20 maybe 22 and and these girls were maybe size 12 so wow and briefly could you just explain how how that has evolved now because obviously today you get you know bespoke agencies specifically for plus size women and representation is you know it's still not great I mean look at the catwalks on London Fashion Week. But it is improving, isn't it? I mean, I agree with you. It's still not where it needs to be. But if you can understand from 2012 when I was signed, there was no models of my size or my age existed in the UK. And I was with that agency for less than six months.

I think they just didn't really get it. for not for less than six months I think they just didn't really get it and I signed with milk management who are now at the forefront of like making change for so much diversity within the industry and yeah there was there was no one really back then there was only sort of plus size celebrities um there wasn't really any any models so yeah you've gone from that to now like you have bespoke agencies like pretty much most of the established agencies have a curve board you know have a talent board have have all these other different boards which didn't exist back then yeah it is brilliant it is brilliant but yeah it is still you know it's it's still not at a point where it is equal in terms of

representation on the runways like you know I go to London Fashion Week every season and it's still not at a point where it is equal in terms of representation on the runways. Like, you know, I go to London Fashion Week every season and it's just, it just feels like when you see a plus size woman on the runway, it never really feels fully integrated. I think they're better at that in New York, actually. I think there are a lot of designers that do it there. But London, they're just so behind. It's like when there's a plus size woman, it's almost,

it feels like tokenism a bit doesn't it yeah yeah New York have absolutely smashing it with with fashion weeks and I mean you just have to look at people like not only all the designers out there they use you know they don't use one curve model they use I think I did an article on on fashion weeks compared to London and New York and it was something like you know 70% of the designers actually do plus size whether they have them on even on the catwalks or modeling like the majority of the brands do actually do plus and in America they promote and you can go into store and buy them whereas in the UK that you can't so there's a store called well a platform called 11 on array in the US and they stock like loads of high-end fashion designers did you know

that like Christopher Kane goes up to like a size 2022 what no I had no idea they stock in 11 on array and like Dolce & Gabbana like all of these they they do and as a model when i've been on like high-end fashion editorial sets like they do have our size but it just depends where you are in the world whether they're going to show it and promote it and and so 11 on array this new they think they're trying to branch over here as well but should absolutely smash it because over here we've got marinainaldi um but that's kind of the only real high-end fashion we have for plus it's it's bonkers isn't it because it's like it's like it's one thing you know not putting plus size women on your runway if you don't make clothes for that size which is a problem in and of itself

obviously but also it just seems like bad business if you know you you are making that is your customer and it's like you're only appealing to one customer i mean i could talk to you about this for ages because it's just um anyway we should move on so today uh we're going to talk about how our relationships affect our body confidence. Now, body confidence and body positivity are subjects we talk about a lot today, but I feel like they're not really discussed in the mainstream within the context of relationships and other people. It's kind of more about, like you said, self-love and how we think about ourselves, which is, of course, I would say paramount. But, you know, there is more to be said about how other people impact the way

we feel about our bodies um so you know just thinking about people who see you naked the people that are most likely to see you naked are your sexual partners so it seems like an obvious place to to start really so how do you think you know just looking back your relationship with your body has impacted the way you relate to partners if it has well I remember when I was 17 18 and no I was definitely I was 18 and I had my first kind of like proper boyfriend. And that was kind of when my body really started to change. So my body has always been curvy and bigger in certain places, but it wasn't until I was 18 when I got into this relationship with this guy that I developed stretch marks and I developed them all over my stomach. Now, because growing up, there was never really any sort of

representation with any female with stretch marks. The only, you know, my mum didn't have them when she was pregnant. So she's kind of the only woman I would have seen them on. But there was no kind of no people in magazines or anything that kind of showed these things. Everything was always photoshopped and airbrushed and whatever. And I remember exactly where I was. I was in my boyfriend's bathroom and I was getting ready to have a shower and I took my jeans off and I saw some red lines on my stomach. And I genuinely thought, oh, I must've just eaten too much or like my jeans are too tight. And you get, you know, when you get the creases on your skin from the jeans and I had a shower and then I came out and I was like these haven't washed off like it's not gone like what

is this and then out of literally in a few weeks my whole stomach just grew it was like a tree like a tree branch all of these like ruby red stretch marks and I was absolutely mortified like mortified like it did sort of kind of stop my kind of sex drive and and with my partner I'd wear really really high-waisted pants and like high-waisted anything whenever we would go swimming or anything I'd wear like high-waisted everything and I kind of used to dress quite vintage back then so I kind of managed to kind of incorporate with my style but I was uh you know I didn't want to I didn't want him to see them I didn't want to see anything I was absolutely mortified and you know I use every product under the sun to try and get rid of them and I thought what what have

I done wrong to deserve this like I saw them as such a bad thing. And actual fact, the reason why I got stretch marks is because I'd gone on to contraception and my body had changed. And also I just moved out of home. I didn't really know how to cook. And I was eating with my partner who was quite skinny actually, but could cook a lot of food.

So we're just eating all the time and my body just changed. And it wasn't really that whole relationship I had with him. Like I did used to try and hide everything. And I used to like, you know, get drunk before we had sex. So I kind of like my feelings didn't go. And I used to think there was really something wrong with me. And it took a good few years for me to kind of accept those stretch marks as a part of me.

accept those stretch marks as a part of me. I think if, you know, back then, if there had been, you know, Instagram didn't exist. I mean, like, you know, there was other social platforms, but if there was imagery out there and within the magazines and beauty in the beauty industry that showed stretch marks, I wouldn't have felt that way about myself. Did you ever talk to him about your insecurities or did he ever pick up on it? I think he just, yeah, I never, I don't remember talking about it and I think I just avoided it and I used to wear like really ridiculous outfits and I think what I was doing was I was using clothing as an armour so it was almost like yeah yeah I'm really like fun and adventurous and cool and like you should hang out with me and you know I'm a really fun girlfriend but like I'm putting all of these layers on because I'm embarrassed what's underneath it's so it's so common though

it's such a relatable thing like for me I think the thing that I started noticing that I was always really embarrassed about in front of partners is cellulite. And again, it's similar to stretch marks. You know, there are endless products out there, you know, marketed to women, like we can fix you. We can turn you into, you know, the perfect woman. If you spend 50 quid on this leg toning cream or, you know, you use a body brush three times a day after the shower, which by the way, those body brushes, I have them, they're really painful and you scrub them on your legs and on your bum. It is not an enjoyable thing. And then once I was sent, um, I was sent like a little suction cup that you, you can like put on your leg and it like sucks the skin and it's supposed to get rid of cellulite that way. But it's, it's so funny, isn't it?'t it because it's like you're you're with someone who you know loves you but it's still like oh I'm just gonna like cover up my legs with a towel

like all the time and it's it really I think you know obviously you have those insecurities anyway but I think when you are with a partner it really brings it to the surface doesn't it like you said that was like the first time that you kind of felt those insecurities it's how do you think how do you think you overcome that do you think it's about talking to the person you're with or is it about going away and trying to rewire your brain almost I don't know because I think I don't know if it wasn't so much him or if it was more society, really, because at the end of the day, I know he really loved me. And, you know, I know that it was probably more in my brain than it was his. I honestly, I think if, you know, if I was to speak to him today, he would be like, what are you talking about? Like, that's, that's crazy. And the thing is my, the, the relationships that I've had since, like men don't actually care. Like they really don't. And I, and when I realized that I was like,

how many years have I spent worrying about my body for the male gaze and actually as women we are literally the most powerful you know people on this planet that give birth and give life and we are incredible and amazing and our bodies will change from being a teenager for puberty like you said if you want to if you have contraception your body does change our bodies change so much with with all these different things that we put in it then you might get pregnant you know your body will change again and then once you've got that you've got a child and then you might breastfeed and your body's going to change again and then after that we then have menopause god that's so that's so true when you break it down like that women's bodies do fluctuate so much and even just like you know when you're on your period that women's bodies do fluctuate so much and even just like

you know when you're on your period for god's sake you know of course you change you retain maybe a bit more water weight or your boobs get bigger like you just you just do fluctuate depending on where you are in your menstrual cycle and like you said depending on what contraception you're on which is a whole other sexist issue i think that i've definitely spoken about on the show before about the lengths that women go to and the shit we do to our bodies just so that we don't get pregnant if we don't want to I mean yeah it's yeah it's mad I get you but it's so difficult because like when you then I think from that point until now you know it was only a few few years later when I then became a model you know and it was and that was I was very thrown I was thrown in at the deep end and I didn't really know what's going on and

I actually think in a weird way um the industry and the kind of support that I had from people of you know you need to be opening these doors you need to be doing these things actually gave me the confidence of like god like I need to be doing this because I didn't have anyone when I was 18 showing up so I then was like right I'm going to show you my body I'm going to show you what I look like this is natural this is you know and actually my stretch marks you know as as I didn't know when I was 18 I was like the redness does go and then you're left with this kind of like silvery kind of clear stretch mark that's still there but you know it changes I thought oh my god I'm going to be they're going to be red forever you know and I think the more that you kind of open up and you show your bodies to your friends

and and and for me it was like the friends online and the reaction I was like well actually no this is this is a good thing and actually the body positivity movement online gave me that kind of self-love and everything to be like you know what my next partner if they don't like my stretch marks and they don't like this they can like I don't care that's not that is not my issue if a man doesn't like a woman's body because she's got stretch marks that's because he has been tainted by society and what is the perfect woman and for me and i've always always state this is my like quote of my life is that the perfect body does not exist simply as there's no two humans on this planet that are the same so you need to aspire to be the best version of you not not someone else

so it's like and men get them too you don't realize this men get them and also you don't just get stretch marks from from gaining weight you also get them from losing weight it's about your skin stretching and shrinking and like you then look at like all of these like guys that go to the gym like these big guys like big muscle guys that go to the gym that are like super fit or like you get the guys like playing rugby and like the boxers and all of this they are literally ripped and covered in stretch marks but for some reason as women we're looking at them and I know I'm not I't talk for everybody, but I look at a guy with stretch marks, and I do not see it as, as unattractive, I'm like, oh my god, like, that's part of him,

like, he's gorgeous, whatever, I don't see that, that, and I'm like, he's just grown. Yeah, it's so funny, it's because we, you're right, it's not necessarily about the partner, it's about, like you said, it's a society thing, so I, you know, when I look at pictures of celebrities in the tabloids or something and someone like, I don't know, Kendall Jenner, and you see a picture of her in a bikini, I catch myself looking at the pictures of her legs to be like, where is her cellulite? Where is the proof that she is a real woman? Because it's just like, and I'm sure she has it. Of course,'s just like and I'm sure she has it of course I'm like I'm sure she has it but it's just I find myself looking for that reassurance of knowing

that like okay someone like that who is hailed as you know one of the most beautiful women in the world or whatever she's just like me she has cellulite too it's like you just you're desperate for it all to be normalized because it isn't and it's such a problem i mean that family is quite problematic with body image as it is oh i mean yeah that's probably a bad example because that family has a lot of yeah that's a very that's a very good point that's a whole other episode that we could do on the dardashians and the jennas acas powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

I'm Jessie Cruikshank, and on my podcast, Phone a Friend, I break down the biggest stories in pop culture. But when I have questions, I get to phone a friend. I phone my old friend, Dan Levy. You will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know a thirsty man until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween.

Facebook is like a node. That's what my grandma's on. Thank God Phone a Friend with Jesse Crookshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com It's interesting what you said, though, about before, about like, you know, going away and doing the work yourself and trying to kind of like unlearn these things that society conditions you to think about the perfect body. Because I think something that I've always kind of grappled with is like every time I'm with someone new, no matter how much work I've done on myself and my own body image, I can't help but feel like I'm starting from zero, like every time with a new partner, because it's like, like well they're going to see me naked for the

first time you know and it's like you almost have to like start from scratch and in order to feel comfortable around them do you know what I mean do you feel like that I mean as well when I've you know in the in the past like obviously there's there's a lot of photos of me on the internet so someone already has their idea of what they think I might look like naked and the thing is a lot of photo shoots and stuff that I do um will be will be out of my control or how they edit it but that's why I make sure that I'm always have like real images of stuff with me online not not for men by the way but for women and well for any gender basically um who's looking for body positivity but um no I totally I totally understand it's like it's a new person it's a new being it's it's uh um a new experience and I think

but I think I think that's fine to be like that in in a certain way I think it's fine like as long as it's more of an excitement than it is of a sort of a negative sort of thing because that person has has been attracted to you for a reason and like you're more than just your body you know there's a lot with your your energy your soul your personality you know there's a lot that you're warm there's there's much more to you than just the vessel that you are living in so I think that's what you kind of have to sometimes think before you get super anxious about maybe being naked with someone because at the end of the day as well like guys have guys and other girls you know they have um

it's not just you that has these these feelings like a lot of the time these other your your partners or your um rendezvous have probably got the same feeling inside but just maybe not don't show it um do you think feeling confident in your skin is a sign that you're in a good relationship if you are in a relationship and you feel very confident yeah i think if you if you're in a relationship and you feel very confident yeah I think if you if you're in a relationship and you're feeling confident it's a sign that you're feeling at one with yourself and um but you can still feel vulnerable and in other elements so I feel like I always feel when I'm in a relationship and I'm happy I am my most confident and I'm I usually do put on a lot of weight as well because I'm more happy and secure and I'm a bit more lazy. I don't go out as much. Do you know what I mean? Cause you're

spending more time with that person. Um, so it's weird actually, because I'm probably the most confident and happy when I'm in a relationship, but I'm probably bigger than I am when I'm not. That's so interesting though isn't it it's like it's a sign that that's your body getting getting comfortable and that's a healthy thing isn't it it's like well maybe maybe beforehand you were restricting yourself in a way that your body didn't like and it's like well now I think if if your mood is is good and and your body changes you know if if those those the way that those things are matched up is a good thing you know it's like take note of that and clearly your body is happier in this

state than it was in a different one I've definitely had that as well um now I know you work with the lingerie brand so I want to ask you a bit about lingerie because I think this is something that comes up time and time again when we speak about body confidence and relationships. And it's a bit cliched sometimes, like the idea of like, oh, you know, put on your sexy underwear for your boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever. And it's like, I know I've done that in the past. And it hasn't, like, I big it up as being like, oh, I'm going to be so sexy and so attractive. And then it just fails. It just doesn't like I big it up as being like oh I'm gonna be so sexy and so attractive and then it just it just fails it just doesn't work it doesn't end up the way you think it's going to and it

and you're so gutted because it's like well this tell society tells me that this is how people want women to look and you want to be wearing like really skimpy lacy clothes and whatever um but it's an interesting thing because I think there's a lot of damage there to be undone um you know I'm thinking specifically of the Victoria's Secret show which Kendall Jenner funnily enough uh modeled for um and it's only just recently um been put on pause I think they are going to come back but they um they didn't do one last year. But for years, that fashion show was this kind of like beacon of femininity and beauty. And, you know, the whole idea was you have the most beautiful women in the world strutting down this catwalk alongside the most famous musicians in the world. And they're kind of hailed as these like goddesses.

And there would be these like YouTube tutorials in order to how to get the Victoria's Secret body. And there would be articles about how to get the victoria's secret body and you know because they're super super slim typically but somehow also have big boobs and a big bum and they're like super toned and the implication is that this is what you need to look like in order to feel confident in lingerie and in order to feel confident in front of a partner um and that idea like plagued me for years because I just I just totally bought into it um how how did that impact you growing up were you aware of the Victoria's Secret show and stuff I was aware of it but the clothes never ever ever ever would fit me so I kind of blanked it out of my life it was the easiest

way to do like growing up when you can't buy clothes in certain stores you would just blank it out and I think it is frustrating because I've seen like some of my friends around me who have been influenced and stuff by it and it's again it's run by a misogynistic male who has got one beauty ideal and he believes that that is his ideal of femininity and that's his ideal of what he is attracted to I mean Victoria's Secret is all of the awful things that happened with them what he spoke about how he spoke about plus-size women how he spoke about trans women like it was all hideous yeah this is this is ed razik sorry this is ed razik right who i think no longer works there yeah i think they've all i think they've all stepped down i think as far as since all of that came out because he did an interview with bow

didn't he where he he said he basically explained that they wouldn't ever have plus size women on that runway because the show is in inverted commas a fantasy yeah right and he said the same about transgender people as well didn't he yeah i know and then you look at savage fancy and you're like lol yeah so that was going to be my my next point isn't it then you look at what rihanna's doing with her incredible lingerie brand which you know now she's got this deal with amazon where they do these spectacular shows um and i think the last one just came out a few weeks ago which is around the same time the Victoria's Secret show traditionally would have come out and you've got models with disabilities you've got models of all sizes all ethnicities like it's such a you

know wonderful glorious celebration of of women yeah however whoever identifies as that you know and it's just it's amazing that it took this long for the Victoria's Secret show to be seen as outdated isn't it it's um yeah the thing is as well as like the I think the thing with with lingerie and like feeling sexy in lingerie like number one if you can't find it for your size that's one thing but I think that's one thing that like you know Savage Fenty have done so well is they've produced such a huge huge range of of pieces for we started to do men as well so she's got like boxer shorts and stuff in there which is cool um the one thing that I will say about certain brands um is a lot of the time they will when

they branch out to do plus they change the styles so they're almost like sister styles but they're not the same and that's one thing that I was like really really proud of with my collection with playful promises was I was like right number one I'm not going to do a plus size range I want to do a range with the maximum amount of range sizes that you physically can produce for me um so we do a size H26 and we do 32 to 44 back and A to H cup so it's like it's a lot of sizes but we made pieces that were all the same style so all the styles up from from the small to the to the large everything is the same which you find very very rarely within the lingerie um industry because I was like I wanted to have something that all of my girlfriends we could all

wear they're exactly the same and just because I'm bigger doesn't mean I want double straps, double thickness, extra like higher cups. Like, no, I want the half cups. I want to have the suspenders. I want to have the harnesses. I want to have all the cool things that the smaller size girls all get, but I'm going to have it not just for plus, I'm going to do it for everyone. So it's like, look, I'm not just doing the plus size team here. I'm doing everyone. for everyone so it's like look I'm not just doing the plus size team here I'm doing everyone and when you see a collection that has everything for everyone that's where we need to be absolutely but I mean for god's sake why are brands why are brands doing that in the first place because the implication is like oh well you know a plus size woman isn't going to want to wear the lacy bra she's going to want something much more like utilitarian

like what kind of implication is that if you don't give us the option how do you know that we don't want it it's awful it's awful so is that still an issue there still aren't that many brands that that um have those wide ranges yeah well usually if it's a brand it'll be a solely like a plus size brand so there's loads of amazing plus size bra brands like lingerie brands but they'll specifically just do that range even savage fenty i love for them and i've worked for them and will continue to work with them but even they're sort of like like if me and you went to go and buy um a certain set i guarantee you mine would be a different style to yours really it's a bit similar

but it would be like I would have like double thick straps or double thick band or whatever and I want the kind of cute they say yeah I've got bigger boobs but it doesn't mean that I don't want to have something really slim and and like like sexy and like you know yeah have you seen um have you seen Lizzo's videos of herself like dancing in lingerie? Brilliant. Oh my God, they are so good. I mean, she did Savage Fenty recently, didn't she?

But she often posts these amazing videos of her dancing to sexy music in underwear. And it's just, she looks amazing. And, you know, she's wearing like the thin straps and the, you know, thin lace and whatever. And she just looks incredible um god love lizzo uh so it's time for our lessons in love segment so this is the part of the show where i ask every guest to basically share something that they have learned from their

previous relationship experiences uh so felicity what is your lesson in love my lesson in love would be to stop worrying what your partner really thinks of you because it's actually all in your head oh that is good that is a really good one um can I ask if um obviously you know when you were talking about that partner before that was before you became a model yeah has becoming a model and you know doing the work that you do on instagram has that changed the way that you feel about your body and relationships and has that made you feel much more confident 100 i think like when you feel like you have a support system and some cheerleaders whether that's your best friends your social media following your agents whoever it is when you

have that you're going to ooze you're going to ooze sex appeal and ease confidence because you've got you feel like actually no even if I have these negative thoughts I have this support system around me and I have this community that are in the same position as me and are rooting for me and yeah it's's definitely helped. That's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you're a new listener to this show, you can subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts,

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