Love Lives - Interracial relationships, narcissistic men and Love Island, with Candice Brathwaite

Episode Date: July 30, 2021

Support Millennial Love with a donation today: https://supporter.acast.com/millennialloveThis week, Olivia speaks to Candice Brathwaite. Candice is the bestselling author and journalist, whose debut book, I Am Not Your Baby Mother, about being a black British mother, was a roaring success.She joins Olivia to discuss her second book, Sista Sister, a collection of essays about the things Candice wishes she knew when she was growing up, covering everything from family and friendships to money and dating.They discuss the complexities surrounding interracial relationships and Candice explains why she advises black women to always “go where the love is”.They also discuss what drives women towards narcissistic men, how we can rectify the power imbalance between men and women in straight relationships, whether Love Island’s diversity problem can ever be fixed, and the microaggressions that Candice has experienced in the so-called “mummy blogger” sphere.Follow the show on Instagram at @millennial_loveSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know a thirsty man until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like, and now that's what my grandma's on. Thank God phone a friend with Jesse Crookshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. identity and more. This week I spoke to the best-selling author and journalist Candice Braithwaite. We talked about so much in this episode including Candice's latest book Sister Sister, a brilliant collection of essays about all the things she wishes she knew when she was growing up covering

everything from family and friendships to money and dating. We spoke about the complexities surrounding interracial relationships and why Candice always advises black women to go where the love is. For those who don't know, I should mention that Candice was one of the women targeted by a fake trolling account set up by Clemmie Hooper, who used to go by mother of daughters on Instagram, but is now no longer on the site due to the fallout from that whole very messy situation, which we do talk about. Enjoy the show.

Hi Candice, how are you doing? I am good thanks. I had to pause. I think I'm doing that British thing of yeah I'm so great everything's wonderful. It's a bit up and down like okay the world's somewhat open but we still feel the weight of COVID you know it's not going anywhere but when you're trying to run a business or you're self-employed it just feels like you have to be back out there all systems go so I'm a bit all over the gaff I'm not gonna sit here and lie to you but I absolutely love my life. So I also don't want the universe listening and being like, OK, love, I'll fix that. No, no, no, we're fine. I'm just having to like re-centre myself, so to speak. I mean, you've got a hell of a lot going on.

And I can imagine particularly now with the book release and stuff, it's been quite intense. Yeah, this one for Sister Sister, I feel like people are getting like buy one get one free because uh lockdown we were in the first lockdown when my first book was published and so now it's very much like can she come here can she come there can you do a signing there and it feels really overwhelming I don't um want to speak negatively about this book I think it's great I do wish I'd waited a bit though there is like I'm gonna say it's very it is quick because um I'm not your baby mother came out when was it was it June 20 yeah yeah yeah literally and so I'm very quick super quick um this wasn't as hard to write because I'm sure this is a question that will

come up later so I won't go into too much detail, but this book proposal was floating around way before I'm not your baby mother was even a conception. So it was really easy to write, but I do wish that I'd taken a bit of a break, but there is the pressure of this whole instant gratification society we're living in. And like, you've got to be seen to be working all the time all the time all the time it's something that once i'm done with the promotion of sister sister it's something i'm gonna actively try and promote for myself um of course i run a business and i need to make money but i don't think people need to hear from me as often you know I think no I think gaps are good gaps gaps are good you know allow people to be hungry allow your readers or

those that consume your art to be a bit like oh my god where is she you know I think that's a good thing yeah and we're not really we don't really talk about that enough and we're not really conditioned to think that way because like you said it's kind of like strike while the iron's hot and go as fast as you can and do as much as you can and that's not really good for any of us right so let's talk about sister sister uh tell us what it's about and and how it came about you know you just mentioned now that it that was kind of brewing for a long time yeah sister sister is essentially a collection of essays based on lessons I've learned the hard way. And I'm sharing them, hopefully, so other people don't have to learn these lessons the hard way.

And, you know, oh, God, I'm not selling it. But let me be frank. Sister Sister is nothing new. There is nothing new about these like, you know, self-empowerment, hard lessons learned type manuals. empowerment hard lessons learned type manuals the massive difference is none of the ones I came across as a as a young woman were ever written with a woman that looked like me at the center and so oh yeah cool you're telling me you know oh just love your hair the way it is mine just absolutely does not go into a ponytail and this is before I had a shaved head so could we consider that okay you're telling me you know oh be confident in yourself and boys will chase after you yeah but I'm a black girl in a space where boys have been conditioned even boys that look like me to hate me so how do I deal with that and I absolutely am not the target audience for Sister Sister because so much has happened and so much has changed but I would say 18, 19, 20,

I would have killed to get my hands on this kind of book. Because there were just so many unanswered questions. There were just so many more hurdles for a girl like me so many more pitfalls that I had not seen explored in a book at all. And funnily enough, sister sister sister got turned down about 10 times really yeah about 10 we took that that idea to various publishing houses and pre-BLM they were very much like there's no market for this you need to make your writing more universal like yeah yeah yeah is there a way that you can make this about everyone and not just solely the black british experience it was very much that kickback i know well i mean i'm so pleased that it got published but christ it's depressing to hear that it it was it the language that was used to talk about it in that way and it's just like for Black Lives Matter to be the thing that means, oh, no, now it's OK.

Now it's in demand. Yeah. That's the world we live in, isn't it? I mean, you know, the publishing industry is notorious for that, unfortunately. But things are improving, I think, aren't they? Slowly. Yeah, really slowly. And, you know, I'm about to do some kind of festival speaking about

and to the publishing world and now our biggest problem is it's not that we are lacking for black writers our biggest issue is and i found this with i'm not your baby mother during the editing process uh my the the corrections and stuff were coming back and And in the margins, it was saying stuff like, well, surely all Africans say this. Or I've never seen black people use these words. And after some investigation, I found out that I'd been given a freelance editor who was in her early 60s,

still lived at home with her parents and played the violin. I was like, yeah, this is, this really, I literally picked up the phone. I was like, this is so not gonna work. You know, please find me an editor who at least halfway gets what I'm talking about. And that's the problem. We've got so many great black writing voices now,

but the industry is still so like pale male and stale or female and stale because it's very, it's a women-led industry but it's like okay um we are at risk of diluting black voices because editors don't know what to do you want the material but you don't really know how to craft it you don't really understand what black writers are saying and so now i'm just like yeah we've got more than enough black writers to go around how are we going to fix this institution from the inside out that's yeah that's such a that's such a good point and I think unfortunately that's probably true across a lot of industries as well like even even in

journalism I think it's pretty similar yeah um now let's talk about dating because you write quite a lot about that in sister sister and I know you're married and you have two children yeah so what made you want to reflect on that period of your life and what was that like to look back on that now when it's obviously seen so long ago? I had to reflect on dating because it is by far the most disruptive period of my life and the period of my life that made me question myself the most

because everyone around you is seemingly dating or settling down and you're constantly finding yourself left on the shelf so to speak and now with okay so again we might talk about this later but let's use love island as an example year after year after year we watch the black girl go in there and be disrespected or rejected or left on the shelf or painted as the angry black woman. Like we're literally watching this in real time. And unfortunately, Love Island is a very, very big reflection of of the space we live in. And that's just not from a white point of view. This kind of thinking, this negativity surrounding the black female form also exists within our own community. And again, I had never come across a book that was like, if you're a black woman, dating is going to be really hard, because even the men you give birth to have been positioned to hate you. How

are we going to deal with this? Oh, and and guess what the darker your skin is as a black woman oh my god you better double down and then there's this idea right that black women should just cling on and hope that there's going to be a change or accept a really rubbish partner just so they're able to say that they've got a man who's willing to stay with them like friday to sunday but then he's with another girl Monday to Friday again. And I was like, absolutely not. And what's so funny is discussing dating, having this conversation.

I understand that me being in a really loving hashtag black love or whatever type relationship is a gift and a curse because there may be many black women reading that being like oh well you can talk you know it's all rosy for you but it could also be like I feel like this is really weird to say I feel like there's a large um portion of black men literally just dying for me to be single just dying to be like, oh, that didn't work. And that's because you're too confident, you're too comfortable, you're too sassy. And like, because I'm the kind of Black woman that openly says I can't cook. I'm not the blessed cleaner. We just got a housekeeper. She

means everything to me. Like I don't go above and beyond for this attention. And being rejected time and again in my teens, as painful as that was, I think that made me get really clear about what I will and won't do for love in my later years, you know. Why do you think we still have these such rigid ideas of what we think women need to be, not just generally in society, but what women need to be in relationships? Like you said said like men saying they they want you to fail because you're too confident or too whatever why do you think we're still battling against those stereotypes and and obviously they're much more pertinent as a black woman what why do you think we are still fighting against that now people are gonna hate me but we're still fighting this because there are people that call themselves women still playing that game there are women who are willing to overperform

there are women who are willing to like talk utter shit to me on the internet because i admit i can't cook oh my god he's gonna leave you like it's literally an internal battle at this point and it's like unless we can all get on board with the idea that that way of thinking is dead and that the definition of woman should be defined by the individual we're going to be here until this world combusts or whatever because that's what it is you know that's where we are and as as annoying and as painful as that is what I can do is take control of my definition and share my definition hoping that specifically other black women come across me and they're like oh my god

I don't need to be this like stay at home bake a cake barbie type you know no you absolutely don't and um you will feel so much better for it do you know how how fulfilled I feel when I know I can wake up every day next to my other half and be myself and just be like I don't have to perform and I know some black women married performing them and they're still keeping up this performance and they're the type of woman that in in 40 time, they'll be an older lady sat around grandkids at a party. And they'll be so miserable because they spent the best years of their life performing for this guy that's either now dead or completely walked away. And I'm just like, if there is a God, if I played my life like that, I would get there and he'd slap me to hell. What a waste of time that was for the record I cannot cook either I am terrible I just I've tried and it just does not come

naturally to me I also baking is even worse because I'm like with baking I'm like you know what I'm gonna be a domestic goddess I'm gonna channel all, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to be a domestic goddess. I'm going to channel all that stuff. Baking's a science, right? You can't be all slapped up. Oh, I don't have any flour. I'll just use this, use this. It's a disaster. In the book, you write about how black women shouldn't feel indebted to the idea of a relationship that is so often withheld from them.

And your advice is to go where the love is. So talk to me a bit about what you mean by that. I think that's really interesting. I find the blowback, the pushback, the online noise to black women who decide to date out of their race to be really disgusting. And so few people, so few black men are willing to analyse the fact that 90% of these black women, them dating outside of their race was their last choice. This wasn't like they woke up and they're like, I'm totally just, you know, oh, guess what? Black men are just not my preference. The person that I've lived with

or been around, not my preference. I'm just going, no, it's very, you know, I've spoken to a lot of black women and I wouldn't even say 90, of them um being in a interracial relationship was their last choice because it's like I'm gonna turn to a bag of bones waiting for someone who looks like me to um show up for me or support me or love me and so I am absolutely the queen of go where the love is like this idea this pinnacle of black love I'm in a really strong black relationship I even say in sister sister god forbid he dies before me don't be effing looking for a redo of that I'm just not invested in breaking myself down enough in that manner just to say oh look you know black love I'm with a black guy I will absolutely go where the love is

and that may be a black guy but data and my life experience has shown me um it's more than likely that it won't be and I want black women to feel like really safe in that choice so yeah because you write about interracial relationships in detail and you say you know that they require work like like any other relationship but you point out the importance of recognizing that you're not being or being able to recognize when you are being fetishized or as you say used being used as a preference to dissolve someone else's self-hatred so what do you think of the kind of red flags that might indicate that that is happening what are the red flags okay that the the white guys that just you know say you're because let me be extra say you're

18 months in and you never meet their family complete red flag complete red flag or say you don't meet their close friends or they won't call you girlfriend in front or said friends or family complete red flag i don't know how some people would go about this and I don't even know what you can reference on this podcast but if they are like literally obsessed with ebony porn get the frig out of there like run for the hills it's like these things become very very obvious another thing is like if they are if they want to parade you like get dolled up go out all of that but say when the makeup's off and you're out of the dress they cannot or do not want to communicate about things like blm or maybe you feel like you know you've had a bad day at the

office because of microaggressions if they're not able to have those discussions absolute red flags and I can't honestly sit here and say I know what an interracial relationship is without those red flags because all of mine contain the version of or all of the above so I can't even sit here and offer the flip side that's like but you may find someone who um quote unquote has done the work and reads the books and knows i don't know that that's not to say it doesn't exist but i do want black women to to to recognize those red flags and run for the hills yeah because you write about um you write about this breakup that you went through um in an article for bureau about a man who who told you his language was very interesting,

that he saw the world in black and white. And he explained that there were no black people living in the village where he came from. I mean, it sounds like something from like a Jane Austen novel, like a really, really racist Jane Austen novel. And then he just didn't think that your relationship would work in the long term. So can I ask how old you were when that happened and how you reflect on that looking back now because I can imagine that I think I was I was about 22 21 22 and he was he was older than me not that much older but older old now again upon

reflection older than I would have liked if I had a little bit more sense in my head and yeah he was great with language he literally was like I see the world in black and white and you see it in color and that's the problem I just see I see way more barriers to us having this relationship interestingly enough he is now um the father to a mixed race child um so oh wow yeah um and you know from because people talk it's it's it's been it's been hard for everyone involved in that situation because now he's forced to deal with some things and confront some things you know which again I always find you know the world's been really good to me. I've had some tough situations, but I seemingly feel like I'm in a bulletproof Bentley and all of this stuff ends up in my rear view. And I just watch people's

lives like combust into flames and I'm like, oh my God, sucks for you. And then I drive on into the sunset and I feel, I feel like that about that relationship um and yet it was just really sad because we weren't just dating and he red flag he had met my family I hadn't met his all of that stuff you know um but that was a massive wake-up call for me it was like so how much longer are you going to play this game jokes on me i played it for a little while longer because the x after that was absolutely the worst of all x's that x was like who was um carrie's worst x is still big in my opinion that x burger jack burger oh my yes so that x was then burger. Yeah. Misogynist. Yeah, it took a long time, but it would. Again, when you're surrounded by media and people that constantly reflect to you that you're not lovable, you are going to end up in hurtful situations, to be fair.

hurtful situations to be fair um you recall how you kind of spent years chasing men who only loved themselves and i think that's a really common experience for straight female listeners of this show uh particularly those in their 20s because it is that idea of you know trying to find someone who's going to validate your insecurities but they also kind of exacerbate them at the same time so how did that kind of level of narcissism manifest in your relationships with these men and how how did you come to recognizing it or was it only in retrospect now that you're able to recognize it definitely i think it's really hard to see at the time isn't it yeah definitely only in retrospect definitely so the the jack burger um was a lot older than me far too old for me um had had kids that could walk and talk and use the toilet and

all of that and now i'm just like you were just such a puppet in that moment a puppet to their ego and their position in the world but i do take some some of the blame. You know why? I had been told by many women around me that the goal was just secure a rich, wealthy guy who's going to look after you and you don't have to do much. Like that's the goal. You just want to be. And looking at their lives, they went about that even to the point where they left their morals and self-respect and values on the floor in order to perform this quote unquote easier life so for any straight woman listening of any race who finds themselves in that scenario i just want to say this nothing feels again i don't know if swearing is allowed but nothing feels yeah you can swear

and nothing feels as fucking good as making your own money it's the sickest feeling in the world it's such a sick feeling to like maybe you're on a date with someone and they're just pissing you off and you can control every element of your life because let's be honest a lot of um younger women you go we end up with these really narcissistic men because we've been sold the idea of someone has to save you and he's gonna do the building and you can there's like there's a 50s housewife element in there somewhere it's like I want to be with this older richer guy who's gonna protect me and uplift me I'll cut the crap it's just such a waste of time because the reality is the longer you stay with them the more of yourself

you lose and it just gets harder to get that back and so um after the end of that relationship I want to say I took a while off but that's a lie because then my husband came into my life and that's a very different scenario and that was a hard one to get my head around because he's very obviously black and um he was he was by no means rich. We've actually had to build together. But that's been really, really helpful. And I just look back again on those times cringing, but also like I'm so thankful for those lessons. Because what am I now, 33?

You can't play me now. Like if I had to go back, number number one I wouldn't go back into the dating field absolutely not um so let's just wrap that up but if that let's just pretend I had to go like you couldn't I'm just not phased you know I look back on the stupid painful shoes and the dresses that were just really tight and constricted and I'm just like oh god yeah what it's like a metaphor that those tight dresses it's like a metaphor for what you're doing when you're dating you're trying to date impress a man who you feel insecure around it's like you're squashing you're literally squashing yourself right it's so bad and I remember with um like my burger ex um

I know I hadn't yet built started my, but there were things that I was really. So like at some course during our relationship, I was training for London Marathon and he never once like wanted to hear about training. And I remember like the day I went to race, he just wouldn't get up. He didn't show up to cheer. He didn't. And like I came back to where he was living with the medal he was like that's nice yeah yeah it was just it was just very like you know any anything I felt was an achievement was cut short like it's not a conversation that's nice oh guess who I met today and guess what I'm doing next and

then and I thought wow wow you know long term Candice will you even stop trying to achieve things because in the space in which you live they're not celebrated whereas now sometimes I don't want to celebrate things and my other half is so fucking like come on let's go out why are there four bottles of champagne you should have drunk three already but I'm just like because I'm just not feeling great about this like

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts here's a show that we recommend Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. You will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know a thirsty man until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like a no. That's what my grandma's on. Thank God Phone a Friend with Jesse Crookshank is not available on Facebook.

It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com can i ask how you met your husband twitter he stalked me on twitter i used to but he followed me on twitter we've done the maths for six. So he watched a lot of these relationships in real time. And then I tweeted when that last relationship ended. Then he started like DMing me. And he was like, Oh my gosh, I constantly miss your messages. Let's move this to WhatsApp. I'm the least technological person. So I sent him a link to my WhatsApp. And then he phones me and I was like, Hello, like like how the hell did you get my number? He's like, duh, it's WhatsApp. Like I can just scroll to the top and see your number.

Literally the rest is history. Like we we started dating like, say, a week later. He came to the flat share I was in and he literally never left. And our relationship completely goes against all of the things you shouldn't do totally slept together the first night totally had fun and it's just like and having a relationship like that with him just it that makes me laugh even harder because I'm like everything we're sold is bullshit it's like yeah it is it completely is and the sleeping with someone on the first day as well is such is such a thing we need to debunk because I've literally done that with every single guy I've ever dated as well I mean I'm in a relationship now but I'm just like it's such bullshit that we're not allowed to do that and

I think that's so shrouded in the shame we attach to female sexuality and that's so rubbish like imagine dating someone for two months or three months or six months. Okay. And this is outside of those who, for whatever reason, want to wait. Okay. That I'm not judging that. But outside of that, what, just because like the world says don't do that or they try and make women feel icky. No, absolutely try before you buy. I have heard some horror stories like, oh, God. Yeah, I think you have to test you you need to know how sexually compatible you

are with someone you absolutely have to because you just you don't know until you try it you just don't know um I want to go back to Love Island because you brought it up earlier and obviously it's on at the moment um so the show like you said has been you know criticized for years for the way the treatment of black women on the show. I think it took four seasons for there to even be a black woman on the show. You know, I guess I'm curious to know, what do you think Love Island should do

in order to try and rectify that or try and improve the representation? What do you think is the answer? A lot of people are saying, you know, they need to cast more men that are attracted to black women because there's's also there's elements of fetishization I think isn't there when the men are like oh I like women with dark features like they just use that very ambiguous term I know a few of the black women who've been on Love Island and they are so

lovely and so gracious um but I think black women should just for as long as this show's still on the air they should just stop going on there it's just we nothing ever changes and I just think there has to come a time when we as black women say enough is enough and I've seen a lot of um uh what's the word uh people talking about the American version where there is a black woman on there and she's like she's she's been in so many connections or whatever you call it and like she's really loved and adored and I'm like until we can get some of that US energy we absolutely should not be doing this you know I think there is a growing like resentment towards the show and it's definitely not as popular as it

was a few years ago I think there can be value in the show sometimes and I've written about that like there are a few things but the thing is the value in it is I think from watching men gaslight women and then women being able to be like oh that's happened to me or that is happening to me but at the same time obviously it's having to happen to someone in order for you to learn about it but I do think there is value in that but that's not what the show is intentionally doing obviously it's sort of a like an incidental byproduct but but yeah I think I think as the years have gone on it's just we need a different show and actually I really like Too Hot to Handle I don't know if you've seen that I've seen is that on Netflix I've not watched it yeah so it's quite fun see what I mean there are different variations

I know I started watching something on Netflix was it the circle or something like there are different ways to do these reality shows that god dare I say may make people more intelligent may make them think or make them be like you know why is it that contestants on the circle change their profiles to white girls or, you know, or a taller guy? Like, what do we need to analyse within our society? I just feel like something like Love Island, it's just not giving very much. And, and even the think pieces that come from it, we then have to depend on the population to be smart. We have to depend, you know, it we then have to depend on the population to be smart we have to depend you know on the population to want to learn something else and and we can very and we all do it we we literally follow

people who are like us so all our social media is an echo chamber we're like oh my god you're smart and you're open-minded and you want to learn and this is great and you put your phone down and you go out the door and you're in the one percent babe everyone else is just like yeah don't like her tits mate like there's a lot of that happening also and so um yeah I think we and by we I mean those who feel as though uh there's nothing more to learn from shows like love island need to step away i want to talk to you about i am not your baby mother obviously your phenomenally successful debut book that came out last year so i'm presuming you wrote the book in 2019 yes around then yes so it's kind of it's a call to action for the uk to kind of see and make space for black

mothers in the same way that it does for white mothers so I wonder a few years on now from writing that book and post BLM where do you think we are at with that now and have you noticed changes in in dialogue in social media and the people you talk to I've definitely noticed changes in social media just because BLM was the loudest on social media, right? So all these businesses and corporations that quote unquote would say use mummy influencers, everyone's just had to go out into a hall and start again. And all those really uncomfortable positions I was finding myself in, in my early mummy blogging days where I'm the only black woman on set, or I realize I'm being

paid hundreds while the white women around me are getting thousands like all of that just cannot exist now because you will be exposed so heavily so seemingly on social media even though it's performative there seems to be a change but considering the success of I'm Not Your Baby Mother I have yet to even smell another book about Black British motherhood that's a problem because um lots of people don't know this but if you go to the British Library today and say I want a book about Black British motherhood the only book they can give you is I'm Not Your Baby Mother there is absolutely nothing else in the entirety of the british library about the experience of being a black mother that is unreal when i had my firstborn i had to import all my books from the us and yes there are similarities african-american women are more

likely to die in childbirth also and there are there are really stark differences and so also for me to be kind of sitting here with this pressure of being the sole voice in that regard that's gross that's really great it's like how can only my story matter I don't know what do you make of the term mommy blogger and of being within that world and being really the only black voice in that world still now what do you make of that I definitely will say if it's not been made clear I've I resigned from that role I'm absolutely I'm like oh no and what do I make of it I won't lie when I approached the gates of mummy blogging I put my business hat on and I saw a gap in the market I was like oh my god you all look the same talk the same wear the same clothes let's spice it up a bit and let's see what happens when a black woman forcefully comes into the playing field

uh didn't really go down well there's been lots of ups and downs you know and so mummy blogging currently I would say it's a world that I don't know and I don't understand because so many of the women I would say I was forced to play fair with maybe five years ago. so many of them who have not been kind or gracious and so it's felt really nice to be able to turn my back on that situation and say I don't even fuck with that space anymore I will say that like my other friends who are influencers of some sort they always keep me up to date on oh my god this new black family's coming up and I'm like okay that's wicked that's wicked and what I've noticed from these new black families or black women who would call themselves mummy bloggers is um post BLM they don't have to put up with the bullshit I did it's like you know you know you're gonna go on to a diverse set you know no one's gonna want to not pay you fairly just in case there's an expose so it's really different

I do feel like the black OG of that situation and it's not even something that that I'm like oh yeah you know pay homage I'm just like let's not talk about that it was helpful and I feel like I've done some really great work but it's not like the thing I want on my fucking gravestone like mommy blogger of the year 2018 like also like i don't think there was anything that really showed parenting to be the true democracy that it is what as covid did like we don't give a shit how you're feeding your kid bro we don't care are they warm are they safe are we staying safe like covid just brought everything back down to the floor and it's like dude not one version of parenting is better than the other um covid really

in my opinion thankfully killed the idea of cliques and like batches of people who appear all over your feed and and make you feel bad and give you FOMO like no one cares and um I'm and you know I will end by saying I'm really grateful to this stepping stone that mummy blogging could provide um but it's just it's not for me anymore you know it's been mired in controversy as well with everything that happened with clemmy hooper and that whole there's that there's that and just whilst i don't it's not even that i don't reference her often i barely reference her at all we must understand that her behavior is again that's a reflection of 90 that's a reflection of that coming out of your front door and putting your phone down type of

vibe because I think we can really get a good sense about people when they think they're not being seen as I said I'm not your baby mother all all that really matters is the stuff that you do when you think no one's watching because that's a true reflection of self right and what happened there was a true reflection of self and a true reflection of what um I had to deal with in that situation or in that scenario um and that was tough it's still something that I don't really let meditate on my mind because it's like um I feel so far beyond that situation and whatever she they had going on but it's just like um it's a really good example for what people have to deal with in these industries because mummy I'm sure mummy blogging is not the only space that has these really vile competitive

two-face elements to them and so it really is about being aware of that if you think even for a second for anyone listening that you want to use social media to like build a brand or help boost your career like this is one of the pitfalls that awaits and I think how you manage how I manage my okay so this is what's important. What she did is not important. What's important is how I manage myself in that moment. Because that's all anyone remembers. It's like, oh my God, Candice absolutely said nothing. She went dead silent.

And she came back and just built her brand tenfold. That, for me, that was a massive um uh teaching moment i was like okay babe shit is gonna happen shit is it's just gonna happen how do you respond if at all because sometimes i always say this one of my favorite sayings is silence can't be misquoted sometimes and it goes against everything we've been taught to do on social media, sometimes shutting the fuck up is so good. Just shut up. Just shut up.

Just shut up. So no one can misquote or twist or, you know, bend. Yeah, I completely agree. Because people are just waiting for you to fuck up. Waiting? They are just waiting for you to screw up so that they can have something to talk about at the pub exactly and i i felt like so many people in that situation were waiting to be able to say see that's why she spoke about her that way or there's that angry black woman that was referenced

that you know there it is there it is and it's like ha ha ha not today not today and that's that's really unfair of course I was angry of course I get angry of course I'm hurt the reality is as a black woman who has quote unquote a public profile I can only ever show one side of myself and I went to the brit school so I'm very fucking good at it to be fair like I got an A star drama B tech you cannot out act me but it does mean that I spend a lot of time in my home dealing with the emotional consequences of this job that I've chosen it is time for our lessons in love segment so I sound like a game show host um I'd love to host a game show actually um so this is the part of the show where I ask every guest to share something that they've learned from their previous relationship experiences.

So Candice, what is your lesson in love for us today? Absolutely don't hate me. I think this is the most important lesson that I was told this by some people as well. And I was like, oh, that's so good. I know I can just feel the Twitter fingers. I can feel people's Twitter fingers but i'm gonna say it uh for those in heterosexual relationships find a man that loves you more than you love them please interesting okay find a man who loves you more than you right why? Why? When women love, we go all in to the point of emptying ourselves out.

Like, we've got nothing left. We've seen it happen time and time again. The relationships around me that have gone the distance and that I just look at and I think, Jesus, that's so good. Some of the men even confidently say, oh God, I love her way more. Like, I am just all about her and that there is something about um womanhood like my a lot of women around me always used to say like keep something back for yourself now that is not to say you treat this person like

rubbish no love them but get with a guy who's always gonna go the extra mile it's just so beautiful and I you know I think women specifically get triggered when they hear that because you remember what it was like when you love someone more than they loved you you remember how shit that was how you did all that shit for his birthday and he forgot yours how you planned this surprise thing and he he never went out of the way for you you remember all of that and so this is like my um what's that word this is like my love reparations get with a guy who loves you more than you love him I love that I actually think that's really good advice I love my other half so much but yeah I know he loves me a bit more

it re-establishes the kind of power dynamics a little bit though doesn't it yeah it's a good way to like balance the books yeah there are going to be times as a woman maybe you choose to have kids or whatever there are going to be times where the power is just not in your hands right maybe because of the physical or maternity leave or anything. And so it's always good to look at your bank account of love and see that he's always putting more in than you. That's it for today. Thank you so much for listening.

If you are a new listener to this show, you can subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Acast or anywhere else. You can comment and leave us a rating too so that more people can find us. Also our book Millennial Love based on the podcast is out now with Fourth Estate and you can buy that at any good bookshop. Keep up with everything to do with the show on Instagram. Just search Millennial Love. See you soon. Can Indigenous ways of knowing help kids cope with online bullying? At the University of British Columbia, we believe that they can.

Dr. Johanna Sam and her team are researching how both Indigenous and non-Indigenous youth cope with cyber aggression, working to bridge the diversity gap in child psychology research. At UBC, our researchers are answering today's most pressing questions. To learn how we're moving the world forward, visit ubc.ca forward happens here.