Love Lives - Love Island’s Yewande Biala discusses ‘racialised renaming’ and dating as a Black woman

Episode Date: June 30, 2022

This week, we are joined by author and ex-Love Islander Yewande Biala. We chat with her about racialised renaming and the microaggression she faces every time someone can’t—or indeed won’t—correctly pronounce her name. Yewnade also opens up about her time on Love Island, the difficulties of being the only Black woman in the villa, and why she doesn’t watch the show now. Yewande’s debut book, Reclaiming: Essays on Finding Yourself One Piece at a Time is available for pre-order now. Check out Millennial Love on all major podcast platforms and Independent TV, and keep up to date @Millennial_Love on Instagram and TikTok.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know a thirsty man until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like, and now that's what my grandma's on. Thank God phone a friend with Jesse Crookshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, a podcast from the Independent on everything to do with love, sexuality, identity and more.

This week I am very excited to be joined by author, broadcaster and former Love Island star, Yoande Vialla and we're going to talk all about her new book Reclaiming and how a viral essay led to this amazing book and everything that she delves into including dating. I can't wait to get into it, enjoy the show! Enjoy the show. Hello. Hi, it's the first time I've actually been introduced as an author.

Really, how does it feel? It feels weird, it feels different. Because in your head you're kind of like, maybe I am an author now that I've written a book. But like, for someone to be like, oh, author, it's like, oh, okay, I'll take it. Yeah, I remember when it happened to me as well and I was introduced on something as author and I say wow it feels that you have this real sense

of imposter syndrome yeah it's like I don't feel worthy yeah but you are yeah it's crazy it's crazy um so let's talk about reclaiming but before we get there I want to talk about what led to the book because I know you wrote this essay in The Independent very fittingly that went viral was widely shared and that kind of led to it so could you talk us through what the essay was about and and why you wanted to write it? So the essay was about racialized renaming and for a lot of people who don't know what it is I think in the century we live in now, there is this slight disrespect for names that are not normative or European. And my name is Ywandi, so it is a Nigerian name from the tribe called Yoruba. And it basically means mother coming back.

And I think a lot of people don't really speak about the disrespect associated with ethnic names. And I was on a TV show called Love Island a couple years ago and I kind of experienced a lot of racialized renaming and with racialized renaming a lot of people don't see it as like a big deal it's like oh like someone got your name wrong it's not really a big deal get over it but it's more of the power play and the power dynamic with purposely mispronouncing someone's name and taking that control because usually when people do it purposely there's always this like smile this like vindictive smile they have knowing that they're taking that power away from you and how you want to be addressed um so I kind of had that experience in the villa and I was in there for three and a half weeks and it was something that I constantly had to like live through for

three and a half weeks which was very frustrating to me. So when I came out of the villa two years later I think there was an incident about like bullying and me bullying a previous cast member and accusations were honestly like absurd like I remember just sitting in my room and someone had sent me a comment that a contestant made and I was absolutely baffled because anyone who knows me knows I'm quite reserved I'm kind of quiet I don't really speak unless spoken to and so it was crazy and there was so not true so I put out a statement initially just to be like, this is how I feel about the situation.

And that went viral. I did not expect the reaction. I think I had like over 100,000 like favorites on Twitter. Like it was crazy. And then the Independent approached me and they were like, oh, we'd love for you to write an article about racialized renaming and your experience. I mean, it shows how, A, how important this subject is and how it's just not spoken about

anywhere near as much as it should be. How did it feel for you actually, you know, putting pen to paper, so to speak, and kind of articulating your feelings at that time? Because I imagine at the time when it was going on, you felt like you couldn't really talk to anyone about it. I don't know if you confided in anyone on the show at the time but what was the process like for you just kind of getting it out? I think coming out of like a really big show and just being in the public eye the first thing your agents will say is oh if there's an article or if someone says something don't say anything so I think I kind of came out and even though I wasn't like really outspoken I wasn't really really outspoken, I wasn't really an out to open person anyways,

but I felt like I was silenced a lot and I felt like I lost my voice throughout the years because I was just not used to clapping back, speaking out or anything like that. So putting pen to paper and writing exactly how I felt, felt liberating. It felt like I was reclaiming, felt like I was finding my voice back and and I love the sense of power that it gave me and being the narrative and being able to tell my own narrative and speak my own truth and not have it watered down or filtered or misquoted because when you do a lot of interviews you you do normally get misquoted so having that ability to take that power and be like this is how I feel.

This is what I want to say. And these are my own words. It felt really liberating. And it felt amazing knowing that there were so many people who could resonate and felt the same way and really learned a lot as well from the essay that I wrote. Yeah, that was what I was going to ask you about next. Like the reaction.

Did you get lots of messages from people saying, this happened to me? I really relate. Thank you so much for articulating this feeling that you know it always felt wrong but I couldn't quite express why and actually explaining the very very real reasons as to why you feel that way that you feel yeah it was I think the reaction like even thinking about it that was so crazy because I remember I was just in my house and I was just in my room and I was like looking at it in real life like the reactions in my room and I was like looking at it in real life like the reactions that were going on there was like people on clubhouse because

clubhouse was a thing back a year ago and there was like so many clubhouse rooms that were going on and like my name was like the title and there were so many articles that were written by other people as a response to the article that I wrote there were so many messages and even people on the street were stopping me being like oh my god I read your article and there were so many people who were saying that like I changed my name to something that was normative more European but now I want to change my name back because now it means so much more to me and just knowing that like you've made a little bit of a difference or you've educated someone a little bit is such a special moment for me and for them and and it was it was great I like I loved it. And so talk to me about how that then led to the book because obviously you know you were much better at writing than you

thought you would be and so how did that then lead to reclaiming? When I wrote the article for The Independent the first time round, I got a lot of offers from publication houses. And they were like, oh, we think you're a talented writer. We'd love you to do more essays. And I was like, what even is a talented writer? I was so baffled. I was like, what even is that? And then I did another article for The Independent about colourism and then I got more

offers in so I remember sitting on Zoom calls and just speaking to different publication houses and seeing what was the best fit for me and what the vision for the book would be, what it would look like, what it would sound like and then I went with Cornet House, who are my publication house, and we decided on a collection of essays that is now titled Reclaiming. And how did you go about picking the subjects for the essays that you wanted to focus on? And what was the kind of message that threads all of them together? So we actually just sat down in an office, created a spreadsheet, and we were there for two hours and the question we kept asking ourselves is okay what do we want people to take from this book what do we want this book to look like what do we want it to sound like I knew racialized

renaming was something that was definitely going to make the book just because it was a huge part of my journey and the reason that I got the book and so I knew I wanted to extend that essay a little bit which I did um but I also wanted it to be a little different I didn't want it to be your usual your usual non-fiction book because a lot of non-fictions are just like dating um a lot especially with black authors there's always colorism and they normally sometimes feature around black trauma and I didn't want that to be my case I wanted to step out of it a little bit but I also knew it was important to still talk about colorism and all these other issues that affects the black community um but I added chapters like religion

which I think might be a surprise for a few people because I wanted it to be different and mental health because I've read so many non-fiction books but I've never read one that has a chapter on mental health they're usually a non-fiction book about mental health there's no like chapter about mental health and and even when my mental health chapter it was written in a different way it was more of like a dear diary of me and my therapist and yeah I wanted it to be a little different I wanted it to actually help people and I wanted it to give a true insight to what society is like currently and so we sat down and we wrote like 20 possible chapters and then we narrowed it down.

Because I think with non-fiction essays, you can write so many chapters and you can add so many essays, but you never want to take away from the point of the book and what you intend the book to do. So it was very important that we narrow down what the most important chapters were for this book and talk to me about religion because you brought that up and I think that's a really interesting segue into the way that you talk about love and relationships in the book because obviously your your kind of upbringing and and your religious upbringing has

a real influence on the way that you view marriage and relationships so tell us a little bit about what that was like for you for me religion um I was born into a religious family my parents are Christians I went to a Catholic school um primary and secondary school um so I think religion has always been something that like has been interesting to me because the way I look at it is there's so many different religions right and everyone who believes in a certain religion thinks that that's the right religion so if you're Christian you believe that you know Jesus came to save us all and we are going to go back to heaven one day and and you believe in God and that's the theology that you're taught but I find it interesting that you could be born into Islam, for example, you're taught a different theology.

But in Christianity, it kind of says that, well, if you don't believe in God and you don't believe in Jesus as our saviour, you go to hell. And I think even though we all believe in the same God, there's like different steps of getting to him. And I just thought everyone's theology was so different and I think even with the Bible even though it's like for Christians it's like the book like this is what we believe in this is how we get to God this is how we get

closer to God I found it so interesting that there was just things in it that although I was very religious and I believed in God there's just things in it that I just didn't agree with and I started questioning a lot about the Bible I started questioning a lot about myself about my religion and I think when you're born into Christianity or whatever religion you are you don't really question a lot of things you just kind of take it on it's what you learn you go to mass you go to mosque you do whatever but no one really or maybe they do but I didn't really sit down and really question certain things I just accepted it because that's what my mom told me or that's what the priest the pastor told me so I seen throughout that chapter um I kind of like debunked everything um and I was really looking into my faith. And because I think it's really weird when I tell people that I'm religious, but I don't believe in religion.

And I don't like the word religion. I don't like the segregation it gives. I don't like the word. I don't believe in it. Because I think religion sometimes has a lot of toxic connotations on it. And I think sometimes people use religion as a power tool. So I don't like the word and I don't believe in it, but I do think that I do believe in God. Yeah, I know what you mean. I think people don't view it as very contemporary.

And so they kind of have all these archaic ideas about what it is and what it means and it just comes from a lack of understanding and ignorance most of the time but when it comes to how that shapes your view on sex and dating and you know you said you had to kind of like I guess unlearn certain things when did that kind of process start for you and what was that like kind of reconciling you know the things that you were taught to believe and what you actually thought you wanted to believe? I don't think it happened for me until I went to university because I think you meet different type of people different types of people in university

and I think going to university for me especially especially moving out, was the first time that I decided whether I wanted to go to mass or not. It was the first time I decided I was living on my own. So it was like whether I wanted to pull out the Bible, whether I wanted to pray. So it was the first time that I think I was kind of independent and I made my own decisions. I made my own decisions and I think towards the end of university about when I was 20 is when I started really thinking deeply about my decisions why I feel the way I do why I think the way I do and really investigating them a little bit more and and just being in my own thoughts because I think a lot of us are scared to dive into our own thoughts and ponder and really sit down and think.

But for me, it was the first time that I wasn't scared to open that door and really sat there and really thought about things. Can Indigenous ways of knowing help kids cope with online bullying? At the University of British Columbia, we believe that they can. Dr. Johanna Sam and her team are researching how both Indigenous and non-Indigenous youth cope with cyber aggression, working to bridge the diversity gap in child psychology research. At UBC, our researchers are answering today's most pressing questions. To learn how we're moving the world forward, visit ubc.ca forward happens here. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

I'm Jessie Cruikshank, and on my podcast, Phone a Friend, I break down the biggest stories in pop culture. But when I have questions, I get to phone a friend. I phone my old friend, Dan Levy. You will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know what thirsty meant until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like a no. That's what my grandma's on.

Thank God Phone a Friend with Jessi Crookshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. let's talk about the dating chapter a little bit when you start that off one of the things you said that struck me was that you know you had a confession that you don't know how to date which I think is true for a lot of people myself included and for various reasons what did you mean by that when you wrote that for me I live in like this blissful fantasy I love rom-coms and I think along the way I kind of use that as like a tool for dating and I've just seen Dayton as this like beautiful magical fairy tale and and I had to kind of unlearn a lot of things and like life is not like rose petals and I don't live in a Disney fantasy and this is not it and I think

because of that I just I had so many expectations for dating and what a perfect date was supposed to be like what a perfect guy was supposed to be like, what a perfect guy was supposed to be like, gender roles. I was so fixated on gender roles that I just wasn't dating properly. And I didn't know I wasn't dating properly because all I was looking at was fairy tales. And I wanted to live that. I wanted to meet my Prince Charming. And I was just so uptight.

And it didn't allow for spontaneity in the relationship or or learning or really growing how has being in the public eye affected that because I imagine that has a big impact on all the things you're just talking about and I think you know talk about reality check yeah definitely I think when you're in the public eye there is more scrutiny for you to at least show that you're in a perfect relationship because no one wants to see a picture of like someone fighting or no one wants to not see a perfect couple I think when we open Instagram we all want to aspire to something and so when you follow a couple you you say things like oh couple goals or I want to be like them they're so cute I love them things like that

and so when you're in the public eye and you are in a relationship you feel this immense pressure of trying to show people that you are living this fairytale fantasy but you're really not because it's not a thing yeah and I suppose the level of scrutiny and attention makes it adds pressure on the choices that you're then making in your own dating life because I suppose there's a fear of I don't know being packed or whatever it might be um does does it impact your choices at all in terms of the way that you actually conduct yourself in terms of your love life I think I've tried to keep it as private as possible because of that because I think once you get

into a relationship where people see you dating someone I suppose your followers they're really invested in you and they want to see they want to see you do well so it's always like oh we hope it works out like we don't want you to break up things like that and that does add like a layer of scrutiny to the relationship and tension and things like that so I've tried to keep it out of the public eye as much as possible like I'll go as far as private dinings arrive at separate times um and avoid taking pictures when I'm out with someone like on a date or things like that yeah god it's interesting to hear about the nitty-gritty side of things because I suppose people don't really know about that I know that you in the in the book you write that you're on

which is the kind of exclusive like celebrity dating app yeah what is that like I mean it's so funny because like I think everyone thinks it's like great but it's really not it's just like a filtered down version of men but they still have the same issues as a normal date. It's just like filter diet to like celebrities or influencers or people who work in like media or things like that. But it isn't great. I mean, I'm still single. So and I've been on there for a while. So I mean, it mustn't be that good. Do you think you would want to go out with someone who is also in the public eye?

Or do you think you'd actually prefer in terms of privacy side of things? You know, would it be easier to go out with someone who is also in the public eye or do you think you'd actually prefer in terms of privacy side of things you know would it be easier to go out with someone who isn't? I think it's a hard question because there's so many pros and cons to both sides I think with dating someone who's in the public eye it's easier because they understand your schedule and because I don't work like a strict nine to five like so having time to see the other person who isn't in the public eye would be hard because of that schedule um but then being with someone who is in the public eye means that they understand a little bit more about how hectic your life can be and they understand your issues a little bit more um but then dating someone who isn't in the public eye there's that fear of oh do they like me for me or is it because I'm the public eye or are they trying to like you know attain a level of um

um what would you call a a level of clout, I suppose. And you just don't really know. And on dating apps, you know, you write about some of the misogynoir and the racial comments and the fetishization that you've experienced on those apps, which is an unfortunately incredibly common thing. To young black women listening to this podcast

who have had similar comments on dating apps what what advice would you give them you know what how do you what do you do in that situation when you read those comments do you engage do you do you try and you know talk to them or do you just block what's the best way to deal with that great block there is no talking i feel like with things like that there is no talking like where do we really actually go from here? Like, I'm not going to educate you. That's not my role. That's not my job. So I just don't really see how we can engage or move forward.

So for me, in those type of situations, it's a straight block or delete. And that's why I think Rhea is not that good. Whereas with other dating apps, like say, I think Bumble, you can kind of filter down ethnicity, I think. You can choose what race you want to date. like say I think Bumble you can kind of filter down ethnicity I think you can choose what race you want to date so as a black woman being on that app and if your preference is black men it's easier just to filter it down and avoid having

you know that misogynoir not saying that it wouldn't be there because it absolutely would but you can kind of filter that down and so I think apps like Bumble would be better than apps like Raya. That's interesting so that that kind of specificity yeah is more beneficial in those circumstances I guess it's about finding safe spaces definitely but yeah clearly other apps should be doing more to yeah to help women yeah 100% I think even I think another issue with Raya is that it's very white populated like I could swipe for like two or three minutes and I would only see one black guy so I think that's another huge issue obviously I don't know

how it works but like how people are accepted or what no but I think that is interesting because it's obviously a an invite only thing and there is a there is a moderator accepting people onto it so that's probably something worth looking into um you write in the book that you know you used to be ashamed um of speaking to people about your dating preferences why why is that and what do you mean by that because I think with being a black woman and with being black and having so much pride in being black um in the last couple of years a lot of you know conversations have started off with well if you're pro-black and you're pro this then it should reflect in your dating history if you are really pro-black then you should only be dating black men so I think with those kind of

conversations happening and my dating preference I don't I wouldn't say like I obviously black men is my preference but I would date any race like I'm open to date in any race and I used to always be ashamed to say that because then people would look at me and be like well you're not pro-black and a lot of people now would still look at me and say well you're not really pro-black because you're not solely dating black men and it was a complicated conversation to have but it was there was just so much more to it because black men have like statistically they date more they date more out of the race they don't date black women I think they date like I could be wrong don't quote me on this but I think it's like 60 40 so they date

60 white percent black white women and 40 black women so obviously then it's harder to find a black man as a black woman so I think if you narrow it down yourself to just dating black men you're going to have a really hard time finding a black man that you like that has the same interests as you and that's why I say I'm open to dating everyone but I felt ashamed for such a long time because of it. dating everyone but I felt ashamed for such a long time because of it. You mention a guy in the book who you call Jake who you dated I think when you were at university and you asked him he was white you said have you ever been with a black girl before to which he replied no but I don't see colour and I know at the time you kind of smiled and nodded as if that was like an acceptable thing to say why is that not an acceptable thing to say so we'll go back to why I thought it was when I was younger I used to think that like well if you don't see color then you I mean you can't really

be racist and you think we're all on the same playing field and this is great and I thought it was acceptable but then the more I educate myself the older I got I realized that by you telling me that you don't see color you are diluting my experience as a black woman and you're not seeing the issues that I have or the hurdles that I have to jump through as a black woman and it's not the same you absolutely have to see color you not seeing color is a huge red flag and our relationship will never never ever ever work and it took me time to learn that I guess throughout my life I was constantly you constantly learn you constantly evolve and and I thought it was something that was important to include in the book because I think a lot of people especially a a lot of younger people like me when I was younger, would have seen that as a positive thing.

Like, oh, my God, you don't see colour. That's great. But no, you are diminishing my experience as a black woman by not seeing colour. Do you know roughly your fan base? Is it mostly young women? It is. It's mostly between the ages of 16 to 35, I think, but predominantly 16 to 25. Yeah, got it. It's so important. I think that's why this book will be so helpful to people like that because it's like the sooner you learn these things,

the easier it is later in life. I want to ask you a little bit about Love Island. Obviously, it's been a while since you were on the show. You said 2019, which I can't quite believe. I guess we've just lost two years for Covid yeah exactly um what obviously the show has changed a lot various things in your life have changed a lot how has you know after writing that essay how when you came out with a villa how did you feel about your time in there and how do you feel about it now? When I was in there um I remember being so stressed out the time in there I think was quite hard because when I was in there I was the only black woman in there um and being a black woman on a show like that can be very, very stressful.

There's like a lot of microaggressions. But because you're the only black person there, you kind of just like shrug it off and not look too much into it. But it does like affect you along the way. So being in there was very, very tough. Coming out was obviously a little bit better because obviously I was I um but I did enjoy my journey on the show regardless of whatever happened I think I made amazing friends and it was a great experience and you don't so you don't regret going on no I don't I think there's only a handful of people who get to experience a show

like that um and it was just great just experiencing it and living in it and I always say that like in 20 years I can watch myself back at June 2019 and like watch myself live like if I have kids we can all sit down not that I don't know if we would but we could sit down and that was a moment in my life that you know that happened and that like I'll always be grateful for and I can watch back and it was a moment in my life that you know that happened and that like I'll always be grateful for and I can watch back and it was documented so I think it's great do you ever watch it now no absolutely not too early I'm talking 20 years down the line I think the show has changed quite a lot since you were on it um and you know the show has been criticized for all sorts of

things um but I think in terms of what the show is supposed to be about, which is finding love, I think in recent years the kind of scrutiny has been, well, no one, none of the relationships are really lasting very long. And it seems like they're casting people who maybe want to find Instagram followers as opposed to love. maybe want to find Instagram followers as opposed to love do you think it's possible to find love on a show like that you know just from your experiences alone I can't remember if anyone from your series yeah they did I think it's definitely possible um because at the end of the day you are living and waking up with the same people for eight to ten weeks it is definitely possible not of course not everyone goes in for love but it's crazy because you could you could go in and be like oh like I'm going in for like Instagram followings or brand deals and actually go in and find love and but I guess that's

what anything in life like you could be walking around the street and bump into someone and go on a date and three months down the line you're in love um but I think yeah the show is not what it used to be I think yes a lot of people do go in for the Instagram following and whatever comes out of it um but I think it is possible um but I don't see loads of people finding love maybe like one or two if we're lucky but then again even if one person finds love that's a good thing um this brings me on to our lessons in love segment so this is the part of the show where i ask every guest to share something that they have learned from their previous relationship histories um so you wonder what would be your lesson in love

lesson in love i feel like i need a glass of water for this Jesus. I would say learn everything you know about love. I think when it comes to love we think of like fairy tales and butterflies and and all this magical stuff. Not that it isn't, it is, but I think we have to learn a lot of things and we need to let go of gender roles a guy should do this a girl needs to do this I need to be like this I need to act a certain way and I know there's all these like rules of oh I can't like you know be intimate with a man until like 90 days 30 days I need to do this I need to message my friends before I do certain things and I think people I think we just need to learn how to really relax and just let life be just relax let life be get rid of gender roles get

rid of everything you think that you know about love um and just be just be happy follow your heart yeah I think that's really good advice and And I think part of that is just to stop overanalyzing and overthinking everything. And thinking, you know, am I supposed to do this on this date with this person? What if I want to do this instead? And like, because then that's where the shame comes from, isn't it? And it just becomes a sort of relentless cycle where you're not actually prioritizing yourself and what you want from love. I think that's a really good lesson. Unlearn things, unlearn everything

and stop watching rom-coms and thinking it's real life. Yes, because it's not. Yeah. It's not. That's great. Thank you so much, Yolanda. It's been so lovely to chat to you. That is all we've got time for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you have enjoyed this episode of Millennial Love,

you can subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Acast, or wherever it is that you get your podcasts. You can also watch us online at The Independent if you are more of a visual person. And you can keep up to date with everything to do with the show on Instagram. Just search Millennial Love. We'll see you soon. Bye. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not.

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