Love Lives - Maybe it’s time we stopped believing in fairytale romance, with Niomi Smart

Episode Date: May 21, 2021

Support Millennial Love with a donation today: https://supporter.acast.com/millennialloveThis week, Olivia is joined by Niomi Smart. Niomi is a hugely popular lifestyle YouTuber and the founder of Smart Skin, a vegan and cruelty-free beauty brand.They discuss how beauty regimes can boost your confidence, what self-love actually means, and how much of your relationship you should share on social media.The bulk of this episode, though, is about a big breakup Niomi went through last summer.She speaks openly about how it affected her, what she did to pick herself back up again, and, ultimately, how she started over – in the midst of a pandemic.Follow the show on Instagram at @millennial_loveSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, a podcast from The Independent on everything to do with love, sexuality, identity and more. This week I am thrilled to be joined by Naomi Smart. Naomi is a hugely popular lifestyle YouTuber and the founder of Smart Skin, a vegan and cruelty-free beauty brand. I've been following her work for some time now so it was a pleasure to speak to her a little bit more about what it is that she does, how self-care can boost our confidence and how much of your relationship you should share on social media. But the bulk of this episode is about a very big breakup Naomi went through last summer and she speaks incredibly openly about how it affected her in a way that I hope

will resonate with many of you. It certainly resonated with me. I'll leave it there for now. Enjoy the show. Hi Naomi, how are you? Hi, I'm good, thank you. How are you doing? I'm good, I'm fine, getting on with things, looking forward to the world opening up again. We're recording this in March but it will be out in May. Things will be open by then, won't they? I know, I feel like we are so close but in a weird way. I feel like the past couple of weeks have been the hardest almost like counting down until life potentially goes back to normal it's just I don't know it's really dragging I know it's really gone on this time and I think particularly because we had to do it through

winter and it was just it was so much worse like in the summer it was so much nicer because you could just chill in people's gardens in the park and stuff and it's like the winter has just been so bleak yeah absolutely I mean every day that the sun comes out I'm just like worshipping it I'm outside I'm so much happier yeah weather definitely has been a massive impact I think I think you're right it's it's made it a lot harder when we've had those miserable grey rainy days where you don't even want to go for a walk. So talk to me a bit about how you found the last year because I know you've gone through quite a few like major changes in terms of your personal relationships and your living situation and you know all of that on top of a pandemic it's a lot. It's been a bit crazy. Yes. I feel like every part of my life has changed in the

past 12 months. And that's aside from the pandemic, like the pandemic is just on top of all of that. And in a weird old way, I'm kind of glad it's all happened at once, because it's really forced me to take a good look at myself at my life what is it that I want it's almost like a new blank canvas and I can start again in a weird way um so yeah I mean it has been a mad old few months but I'm really seeing the positives in all of it now. We um we've spoken a bit on the show before about Saturn returns is that something that you've thought about in terms of your big seismic life changes because you're at that age right? Yes yeah I yeah I'm 28 turning 29 well I'll be 29 when this comes out actually so I feel like I am at the beginning of it which is kind of terrifying because I feel

like surely the past 12 months is enough please don't let this just be the beginning but I I've spoken to a few friends that have gone through it and I think sometimes the very beginning stages is like where your feathers are ruffled like it feels incredibly uncomfortable lots of changes and then the next few months or even couple of years will be about me just figuring it all out hopefully getting my life together it's so funny because I I'm 26 and I keep thinking like oh my god I'm having the Saturn return now as well it's just I feel like because I know that this thing exists, I'm like, oh yeah, this explains why.

And I'm kind of using that to validate everything that's happened in my life. It's like, no, I think I'm too young. I think that could be at any point. And I feel like every year when stuff happens to you, I'm like, oh, it's the Saturn return. It's the planets. It's the planets. I mean, you know, timing isn't set.

You may have a premature Saturn return who knows but the reason I was laughing just then is because I thought the exact same and I know that you've had Kagi on your podcast yeah but yeah she's a great friend and I remember speaking to her just over a year ago and we were talking about Saturn returns and I was like do you know what I'm so lucky that I just haven't had my Saturn returns like and I'm 28 and my life is sorted I'm engaged I'm planning my wedding like life is easy and then I remember calling her literally like a few weeks later just being like oh my god I was so wrong I was so wrong oh man you jinxed it you jinxed it I'm saying that's gonna happen to you at all but you know I know how you're feeling right now that

kind of apprehension of what may come must feel really bizarre I mean so much has already happened I don't know how much more could happen it's been a crazy year for me as well um anyway I want to start off by talking a bit about our relationships with ourselves because I think that's something that you talk a lot about on your social media profiles and you obviously run this vegan skincare brand called Smart Skin so I want to talk to you a bit about self-care because I know that a lot of people think that that kind of involves giving yourself like a nighttime facial and having a bath and whatever but it's obviously there's a lot more to it than that and I want to know what you think the phrase self-care even means now and how important it is

to kind of creating a good relationship with ourselves and because I guess it's been overused so much now hasn't it? Yeah absolutely and I do feel like that term self-care is now one that a lot of people probably roll their eyes at or just feel like oh god like it just means nothing now like what even does it mean? I think it really is about going inwards and going on a journey of self-discovery and that's what I've been doing now for the past few months because I was like forced into this situation where my life was turned upside down and I think I realized pretty quickly and early on that I needed to do something about it and I desperately didn't want it to define me and I wanted to just learn more about myself and it just seemed like the perfect opportunity

and that in itself is self-care but I think you need to really want to work on it and you have to really want to look after yourself to feel the benefits it's a bit like if you scream at someone that something's wrong with them and they need to go into therapy and you force them into a room and you sit them down in front of a therapist and say right sort out your problems they're not going to achieve anything in that room because they don't want to be there so you could have someone else that is feeling you know in a similar way but actually wants to work on themselves and wants to fix themselves and goes to meet the same therapist in the same room and can have a completely different experience because they genuinely want to to fix that, whatever it is.

And I feel like self-care is similar, less extreme, obviously. It's not like anything's wrong with you to to want to fix something or, you know, to want to look after yourself. It's just a case of that outlook and that mindset of, I really want to better myself for me, but also the people around me. And I do feel like there's this huge misconception actually about self-care and self-love is selfish. And I think from my experience, it's a lot of of the like an older generation that look at what I'm doing and probably think wow you are so selfish spending all this time like looking after yourself like but actually I see selfishness as it can be selfless in the way that it has this amazing ripple effect on that if you are bettering yourself as a person you're going to be a far better person to be

around and hopefully it can encourage and inspire others to then look after themselves too and I think even that word selfish like it's got such a negative connotation attached to it like actually what's wrong with us being a little bit selfish especially for women it's like we've been conditioned almost to be like if you're feminine you are completely selfless and you don't think about yourself and you just always do things for other people it's like well actually let's regain a bit more of that control of our lives and let's be a little bit more selfish like what's wrong with that yeah it's so you're just taught to be a nurturer and kind of raised to be incredibly selfless like you said and just always put other people before yourself and obviously that's important to a degree

but at the same time if you are sacrificing yourself to that extent to the point where you're no longer comfortable in your own company I guess sometimes because it's like you know I think people who don't really look after themselves in that sense they they don't know what to do when they're alone because it's like well you know I can't relax now you know and I've had this so much I don't I think this is particularly relevant in the pandemic spending so much time alone and now I'm living alone and you know constantly working and when you finally have nothing to do anymore it's like oh crap what am I supposed to do now like I'll have a bath

I'll give myself the facial but it doesn't feel that great like it's it's so much more than that you said it's like a mindset change absolutely absolutely and of course we it's an amazing quality to be caring for others and nurturing but I do feel like you you can't give that much if you're not giving anything to yourself so it's almost like really working on yourself and loving yourself to actually give out that true meaningful love and care and that nurture so it is all about just looking inwards and in terms of like what what do you do for self-care it really is a personal thing I think the classic thing is like oh light a couple of candles and have a bath and that's self-care but again like you can do a million and one things and spend hundreds of pounds on like self-care rituals or

whatever it is but if your mindset isn't there if your mind isn't in the right place it's going to be a complete waste of time and a complete waste of money so it really can be the simplest of things that you enjoy that make you feel good that really encourage you to realize that you are worth a lot. It's really about this journey of self-discovery. That's what I found. And, you know, I started off when I felt like my whole life had come crashing down in front of me last summer. I thought I knew all the things to do by doing those like stereotypical like I'm gonna have a bath and I'm gonna you know take it slow but then I think I realized through experience that there were certain things that really worked for me and then certain things that just didn't like

you know it was nice but like to sit in the bath or whatever but it's not really changing my life right now um so it's just all about little things and changing your mindset and that's where I feel like my skincare comes into this because I realize that you can really find peace in the smallest part of your day and if you can discover that and create that sense of calm with mundane activities it can be completely life-changing and you actually don't need to do much or spend much time on doing it because it's already kind of there and part of your life it is just about changing the way that you see it and perceive it and feel in that moment so skincare for me is one of those times it's like

the two bookends of your day like morning and night and spending five to ten minutes to truly focus on you and it's a time to just be on your own and have that me time and it's as simple as applying a facial oil and just giving yourself a little bit of a facial massage or a face mask or just actually noticing how these products that you're using make you feel and the fragrance and just taking it all in it really is about becoming more mindful and you know most most of us do have a little skincare routine in the morning and evening. But I found that before, for me, it was so rushed. It was like a chore.

It was something I had to do, like scrub off your makeup. Oh, God, can't wait to get back into bed, whatever. Then in the morning, it's like, oh, God, can I really be bothered? I'm running out of time. I'm meant to be, you know, on the tube or whatever. I need to run. I can't be bothered with all of this. on the tube or whatever I need to run like can't be bothered with all of this but actually using your skincare as an opportunity to completely calm down and it's in a beautiful way to start

the day because it is like a meditation and that's when you can start doing things like affirmations um like telling yourself you know almost like telling yourself how you want your day to play out ahead of you it's really interesting because I think it's like you said it's very much about that kind of ritual and routine that is just like incredibly calming but also I think what you said about mindfulness is really interesting because when you're doing something like skincare you obviously are like looking at your skin and you're kind of watching everything and you're seeing where the creams are going and it sounds really basic and obvious but it's so difficult to do things

mindfully particularly I think in lockdown you know when you're constantly in your house like there's always a podcast playing or a song playing or there's something going on in the background like I find it so hard to just be in the moment I'm always like listening to something in the background even when I have a bath like I just can't sit there and in silence not having anything and it's so so I think something like skincare anything whatever it is that you can just do and be completely present in the moment it's so calming like the other day I just switched my phone off from like 8 until 12 because I had a day off and normally I would never do that I'd still be like looking at my emails and like I'd be listening to the radio while I do my brush my

teeth whatever and it just it just adds to the noise in your head you know absolutely no I completely agree I think lockdown has done that to all of us just like we're almost so bored stuck at home that we can't be bothered to stick to doing one thing like reading a book or watching a movie like it's almost like we're just searching for something to stimulate us within the home so but we're so limited to those resources so it's just like well I'm going to check my emails and then I'm going to go on social media and then I'm going to go back to emails and then oh was I listening to a playlist or was I listening to a podcast it's like this cycle and it's stressful and it I definitely feel like I am in that place as well um so that's why I feel like just using something like your

your skincare routine it's so simple it's so accessible just use those few minutes to actually become self-aware and like you say you are looking at your skin in the mirror it's about body awareness as well and actually that physical touch can just feel so soothing and it is an act of self-love and that's why I decided to create my skincare products but obviously I've been working on my skincare products for a good couple of years now they launched in September last year but I wanted to create a skincare range because I was so passionate about this idea of self-love and encouraging confidence within women and I really do feel like skincare can be one of those very small aspects to your life where you can really achieve that but it really came into its own after August of last year when my like I say the the rut the carpet was just

pulled from underneath me and then a month later I launched my products and it just in a way like was unbelievable timing in terms of like how on earth am I going to do this but also kind of the best time because I'd never resonated more with actually the whole ethos of the brand like I knew what self-love and self-care meant but in a way I'd never had to like really practice it to pull myself back together and heal and I do feel like a lot of people have said to me whether you know this is my audience online or my friends and family they've said you've dealt with this so well and you know considering it was only in August and we were engaged the wedding was planned booked everything considering all of that and to be now only a few months later and feel like wow I'm like a different person and

I just count my lucky stars that this has happened to me it is quite soon and I think it is because I had this practice in place before so that I was already set up for this and I'd laid the foundations that were already there so that if trauma hits or you know I was knocked down by whether it's a relationship or career or something I was already in a really fortunate position to know how to look after myself and know what I needed to do I had those tools already and I'm not saying it sounds like I'm saying and this skin curse saved me it's I mean they're great but they don't have magical powers but there are so many parts of my life like yoga meditation and I really delved in deep to this and I had to lean into that pain I had to take a good old look at myself went inwards went on this journey of self-discovery and that focus um allowed me to actually just

realize that I feel like this happened for a reason and I'm actually incredibly grateful for it it's really interesting I think it's so important what you say about like prevention rather than just going straight into the cure, because it's like, it's like with anything, like you said, any kind of trauma, any life issue, if you already have that really good solid foundation of like a healthy lifestyle, you have that kind of self-belief and self-confidence and you know the things that kind of keep you ticking you have a good routine then like you say when something really horrific happens to you you can deal with it a lot better um so let's let's talk about heartbreak because I want to there are other things that I want to touch on but we'll get we'll get to that a bit

later I think because it seems like you know we talk about this on the podcast a lot for obvious reasons because most people will experience heartbreak um but I think it's something that is worth talking about over and over again because obviously everyone has their own experience to share and their own unique perspective that will resonate with someone so correct me if I'm wrong here but my understanding is that your followers found out that you'd gone through this breakup without you even telling them because obviously you have a lot of followers online and you shared parts of your relationship and then suddenly you weren't sharing it anymore so I wonder what that felt like and if you felt pressured to speak publicly about something that was obviously

so deeply personal and incredibly painful yeah absolutely I basically went offline for a while on social media um because I physically couldn't do it. I mean, I think I barely even looked at my phone. I was just like in, as you can imagine, just such a state. So I wasn't posting. So in a really bizarre, it's really weird to say, but people kind of thought, okay, something must be going on because, you know, it'd been a couple of weeks of just like radio silence and I think I posted a very cryptic message because I was like I need to address this I need

to let people know that I'm alive and like everything's okay but that I'm going to take some time off so I basically just said um you know I honestly can't remember it's so weird like looking back it's just like that time in my life I think I just said something like I'm sorry that I've been offline but I'm going to be offline for a little while um something's going on I it wasn't exactly like that but I said something's going on but I I wasn't ready to talk about it which sounds looking back now it sounds like it was hugely attention seeking to be like something's wrong but I'm not telling you what but I just wasn't ready to like be like oh my gosh

like this has happened this is how I just I was in denial and I I couldn't even face it myself at that stage so the thought of having to open up to like millions of people was terrifying so people off the back of that kind of realized it must be something to do with my relationship and I over the years I became incredibly um comfortable with posting him because you know he was a massive part of my life so and my my social media is quite personal in that it's very much about like my lifestyle my ethos and you know my relationship was a big part of that and I was incredibly happy and I didn't feel like I needed to hide anything or you know keep it a secret at all it I just I was so happy I think I almost did want to like show it off because I'm so proud I was just like oh I'm like I just yeah I can't describe it in any other way other than I was

really really happy and proud no but I think that makes sense for most people on a smaller degree as well like I know this is very much your livelihood but everyone shares that relationship on social media you know like you said it's something that people feel proud of and it's not about showing off but it's about being like I'm so proud that I have this person in my life it's it's a natural uh compulsion in this day and age to only to want to share the things that are making you happy you know everyone I think can identify with that yeah I actually remember when I was single before and saying and thinking to myself I don't want to put a relationship online I you know that side of my life is so private I'm going to keep it that way and for the first couple of years I think I

did or at least the first year and then just gradually I know you just become a bit more relaxed and because I you know I'd film a lot he he would be in the background so my audience naturally just got to know him and um you know it was great nothing nothing wrong with that at all but it does mean that when you open up a part of your life online if it does all come crashing down and it ends, you cannot just walk away from it and pretend like it never happened and just be like, oh, not going to talk about that. So eventually, I did speak very openly about the breakup on my Instagram, on stories, I would share the bad days, I would just be like, look, people don't talk about this enough. Heartbreak is the worst feeling in the world. I literally feel physical pain in my body.

And I thought, why? Why do people not talk about this? So I, I felt at the time that I just needed to hopefully help other people out there that may be going through it and also it was providing me with a huge amount of comfort talking about it and hearing other people's stories and actually thousands and thousands of other people are going through it millions in the world you know at one time I wasn't the only one I wasn't suffering on my own I had loads like this whole online community that um I almost like started this conversation with that we were just sharing stories and it it just brought a huge amount of comfort um and then that led on to me creating a video on my YouTube channel that was just completely like raw and

you know didn't hold back I kept like the circumstances private um but spoke about how I felt after the breakup so like post August how have I felt what have I been doing what has my healing process been and that has helped so many people which it's amazing because it's one of those videos that I didn't plan at all I was I was on a country walk and I just thought, you know what? I've got all of these things going on in my head. I'm going to open up and just be completely honest and completely raw and vulnerable. And now I still go back onto that video and read the comments. And it's amazing to actually see that people have either gone through something incredibly similar but also

the people that are sharing ways that they healed and sharing with other people in the in that kind of comment section it's like a community like this is what I did and you know we can all get through this and it's absolutely fine and I think people hopefully appreciated that honesty around the reality of heartbreak. Yeah, I think the idea of kind of community when you're going through something like that is so soothing. And I know as someone who writes about their own relationships all the time, me sharing it is part of what helps me deal with that as well. I know because you did two YouTube videos without it that I saw so one was in November is that the one you're talking about that was the kind of more open one and then the first one was when you kind of um you were doing

skincare routine you kind of alluded to it but didn't really go into detail I think that was maybe a bit earlier right yeah that one was a bit earlier and I think I just felt like okay I need to address it but I still wasn't ready to fully talk about it it was just one of those where like I say I think the more the more you give away of your personal life the more people expect and you know that's absolutely nothing wrong with the people that follow me in the audience of course it's completely natural like if you're invested in an aspect of someone's life, because they've shared it online, you can't then just accept when they're just like, okay, that's it, like, goodbye, not going to talk about it anymore. So I felt like, you know, I needed to address this, but I wasn't

fully ready to open up. So the video me the emotional healing video that was me yeah being completely vulnerable and hopefully yeah helping other women and men out there that are going through heartbreak yeah I mean I found that video incredibly helpful I think particularly because like you said you know the majority of your platform it's a very happy space and I think particularly because like you said you know the majority of your platform it's a very happy space and I think it would be very easy for someone to look at your Instagram profile and be like oh my god this girl has this perfect life and obviously that's not the case but because it's on Instagram it's so hard to see outside of those little squares and to actually see that someone can go through something like that and that's why I think the kind of social media world is so interesting

when you compare it to, say, the celebrity world, where it's like you have these two different types of public life. And I guess, you know, fans of celebrities obviously always want to know what's going on in their personal lives, but they don't necessarily feel obliged to share it because it's not necessarily a part of their work but when it's a part of your work and you share your relationship online it it's a really interesting thing but it's it's no less traumatizing to have to share when you're going through a really painful experience but I think the way that you described the breakup in that video and just now is really important because you describe it as a trauma and this physical pain.

And again, that's so important, I think, because it's not something that people really recognize until it happens to them. And then when it does happen to them and you feel that degree of pain, it can be really disconcerting if you weren't expecting it. Yeah, it's just from the way you've spoken about it it sounds like the breakup kind of came out of nowhere do you think that that made it all the more traumatizing to deal with I mean breakups are always difficult but I think when it's you know when you're planning on wedding and then suddenly it's over, it's probably going to a state of shock, I suspect. Yeah, completely. I mean, it's the worst breakup that I've ever gone through based on the shock, I think. Just like, for your life to be what you thought so well planned out and you know I was I was 28 and

about to get married and I'd met the man of my dreams like literally I idolized him which was now I can see a complete problem because I'd romanticized and fantasized about the whole relationship to the point where I don't think I was actually seeing it for what it really was and that that was a problem because I was in this fairy tale that I'd fabricated myself and then when it all came crashing down it was just like the end of the world for me I just didn't know what to do I felt so lost I it was like I'd found out my whole life was a lie it really was it I had to rediscover myself but having said that I do feel like the the shock of it and how sudden it all was and how unexpected it all was in a way made it easier for me to do that and move on and walk

away because I was so unbelievably like disappointed and let down that I had no other choice but to move forward I couldn't look back like there's no way I couldn't look back and long for what that was because I'd realized that actually I'd romanticized this whole idea not that I'm putting the blame on me of course but like I definitely had done that and I put this man on a pedestal not his fault I'd done that and so I think me realizing that actually it wasn't what I thought it was forced me to to just keep moving in the right direction and work on yourself so in a way I hear about friends that have gone through breakups where it's just been so heartbreaking for both because they've just fallen out of love with each other

um but they still care deeply for each other and it's like oh but you're my security blanket we want to stay together but we can't that in a way sounds like that would take longer to move on from but with me I think the how sudden and how traumatic the whole thing was, was just like, I've got to just go that way, away from this. Can trees help us grow more resilient to climate change? At the University of British Columbia, we believe that they can. Dr. Suzanne Simard and her team are connecting our future to nature. Their Mother Tree project could transform how we manage forests, capturing more carbon and safeguarding biodiversity for generations to come.

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It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. So one of the things I wanted to ask you about, because this is something I know I struggled with. I think one of the hardest things about going through a breakup is cutting off contact but it sounds like you have had a really healthy approach to this because of the circumstances you were able to just cut off completely and that is definitely what friends will tell each other to do but Christ that is so hard to do particularly in in some situations, like you said, where you are constantly second guessing yourself. So how did you have the kind of strength to do that,

if that is what you did? Yeah, at the beginning, it was incredibly hard. The first couple of months, I wanted nothing more than to pick up my phone and speak to him because he was, he was my person. speak to him because he was he was my person and he he really did become like a best friend and I trusted him with my life so I just wanted to I don't know if I wanted to maintain contact after breaking up but it was very hard to train myself to not constantly pick up my phone and see if he's messaged or my phone's ringing, is it him? Is it him? That took a while. But I knew deep down, it's never going to work if we're still speaking all the time. It just doesn't. And you know, I've heard of a lot of people that have maintained friendships with their exes. And if that works them then amazing I applaud them I think it sounds so lovely to genuinely be friends with someone I just personally with any of my ex-partners

can't imagine it I I much rather kind of we've had the great times we've fallen in love we've had so many we've created so many happy memories together and for whatever reason it's come to an end I'm far happier leaving it there and walking away and that I maybe that sounds really brutal but I just feel like I don't want that person to still have a piece of me even if it's just a friend to know that I'm always at the end of the phone that they can still always contact me when they want that really doesn't sit well with me I would rather just be like you know this is this is over and you know it's lovely what we had but just no more goodbye thank you very much I um god that sounds very you're a very strong person because I think that is fucking hard to do because it's not about necessarily like wanting to keep in touch with them but I think it's just

I don't know after a certain period of time it's so easy to romanticize the good parts of the relationship and block out the bad parts and then just be like oh well now I really miss them and now I just want to call them and talk to them and it's just like in those moments of absolute vulnerability what do you do do you do call a friend do you talk to your family what did you do to kind of stop yourself honestly I feel like I treated it like I was mourning a death. And that I think because it really was like this person or the relationship wasn't what I thought it was at all. So it was like that person died and I don't know who this person is. And so it's I mean, that is incredibly morbid. But it was like I had to mourn and I guess grieve.

And it was incredibly painful because it almost felt like I was self-inflicting pain because I actually, you know, I know he is at the end of the phone if I wanted to. But I really would not allow myself to. I really would not allow myself to. And I felt and I do feel incredibly fortunate and lucky to have an amazing support network of women in my life that were there for me and dropped everything to just be there. And this was really tricky, actually, during a pandemic. I mean, this all happened in the summer. And this was really tricky, actually, during a pandemic. I mean, this all happened in the summer. So we weren't in a lockdown.

So you could see friends, which was I was really lucky that timing wise it happened then, I suppose. So I remember my closest oldest friend, like put together this care package with like vegan chocolates and magazines and like everything and just came around was just like there for me. And she was like we can talk about this as much as you want or we don't have to talk about it at all and she I mean that's why she's my my best friend um but my mum as well I then went and moved back to um be with my parents in Sussex and yeah my mum was incredible just I think she it made me realize that actually mums mums are right

a lot of the time they actually do know what they're talking about and one of the things that she said to me was you need to really establish a relationship based on friendship she was like it's what happened with her and it's a piece of advice that really stuck with me and I don't know if this will happen in the future but she was like you need to be friends with someone in that I think it's all about that respect you have for someone when you're friends and she just had all of these little like pieces of information that were just like, wow, okay. And it just really helped me move on from that trauma, I suppose. And it was lovely to be able to be back at home.

But then the lockdown hit, second lockdown. So I was like stuck. And then obviously after Christmas, we've had the third lockdown. and then obviously um after Christmas we've had the third lockdown so I feel like I've been in this weird limbo period where pre-lockdown or pre-covid my life was very very very different my future was different like everything that I planned it it was very different to how it is now planned it it was very different to how it is now and just this past year has almost halted me in figuring out what my life is now because even though I've done all of this work on myself and I feel like I've done so much healing and I genuinely am so proud of myself and a bit shocked that I've been able to do it I don't know where this strength came from I genuinely feel proud I'm like wow I'm stronger than I ever gave myself credit for um but at the same time I have

like everyone been in a lockdown so I have this weird apprehension and anxiety about lockdown ending because I'm like that's when I need to face who I am that's when I need to face my new life because I will be released into the wild as like the new Naomi post-covid post all of these traumas and everything that it is a little bit scary yeah I'm not surprised I mean it's like so much has changed when you're going to be getting back into that so are you still living at home now and I guess are you planning to move back to London when the lockdown is over yes yeah so still living in Sussex but I am absolutely like I'm so excited to go back to London I love London I've lived there for so many years and I've actually always loved living on my own as well so being able to have my own flat

again like live on my own I genuinely am really really excited about and I moved into my new flat um in September of last year but I haven't been able to fully enjoy it at all so I do have that excitement there um but I I could have spent lockdown on my own. But honestly, I feel like I was exactly where I needed to be. I had my family around me. And I've got a very young little sister who I because she was born when I was already an adult in my 20s. I've never lived with her. So it was just like this perfect opportunity to live with her, spend time with her and my family. And they were incredible for me and with this whole journey. So I feel like I really was in the right place.

And I, yeah, I am excited to get my London life back. I guess the problem with lockdown, I need like social interaction. I love, you know, hanging out with friends and everything. And then I almost need that time and space on my own as well. So living on my own in London is my perfect setup because I can go out to events, meet new people, see my friends, like running all over town,

left, right and center. And then I get home completely exhausted. And then I'm like, yes, space time for some zen whereas lockdown I think spending 24 7 on my own it just wouldn't have obviously been the same but I think it would have actually been bad for me I just don't I tried to think what kind of state I'd be in right now if I hadn't have had um my my mum there really I've been living alone the last few weeks and yeah it's not it's not it's no picnic it's really no picnic it's really hard but I'm very lucky that my mum lives very close to me she lives just down the road which is probably why she helped me find this flat conveniently a two-minute walk from her. I'm sorry you've had

to spend it on your own but I guess like you say you've got your mum nearby so hopefully you've been able to go for walks and everything I mean it's just such an odd weird time that we're living in right now and so to have massive life changes thrown into the mix it's it's it's just so bizarre I just I think we're all going to look back on this one day and just think how on earth did we deal with that and what was that all about it's crazy but we're we're nearly through it I know I know thank god um I wanted to ask you about having the content about your relationship online because obviously that is permanent stuff you know most people have well I guess no this isn't true I was going to say most people have photo albums or photos up and then they put them away and they hide them but actually

that's not true because like I said earlier most people do share pictures of their relationship online it's just that not quite as many people will see them as they might see yours or see those videos for example so I wonder how you feel about having that content up there now you know and for other people being able to look through I guess your version of digital like photo albums with someone who's no longer in your life how how do you deal with that would you just try not to think about it I try not to think about it I think my photos I haven't deleted them so those old photos will still be on my Instagram but I think I think my approach with Instagram is just okay if I just keep posting it's going to be so far

down I don't even need to see that or go there and people going onto my profile won't see it so I've just kind of walked away from it and I haven't deleted any because the problem is, he was a massive part of my life, like any serious relationship is for anyone. So I feel like just deleting the evidence isn't really going to achieve anything. So I, it doesn't bother me that it's there. I don't want to see it, obviously, I don't want, I don't go back scrolling through and want to look at the images but they are there maybe one day actually when I'm feeling brave I will scroll further down to like a year ago and delete them who knows um someone actually reminded me the other day that my engagement video is still on YouTube so I feel like that one should probably come down but again I just haven't I haven't wanted to face it um which is odd because I feel like I faced everything else and it's just those tiny little reminders that I think it's because I feel like I've come so far I don't want to go backwards I don't want to go and look at that video I don't want to even I don't want to go backwards. I don't want to go and look at that video. I don't want to even see it. I don't want to see the title of the video. I just can't bear the thought of it.

I think actually, to be honest with you, the thought of deleting stuff like that, like you said, like it's probably, it's just re-traumatizing yourself. It's like, what's the point? It's already out there. The act of deleting it. I mean, you can't delete the past, you know, as lovely as that would be. You just can't. And I think the idea of deleting it I mean you can't delete the past you know as lovely as that would be you just can't and I think the idea of actually going through it it would just be even more painful like I I've never deleted stuff on my own Instagram page when I've broken up with someone because I feel the same it's like you know I don't want to delete that stuff it's painful enough taking bloody photos down in my house you know it's it's horrible I remember I asked when I

broke up with someone in the summer I um I was at a friend's house and I asked my housemate to take all the photos and hide them somewhere because I couldn't face that process of doing it myself so it's a similar kind of more extreme version of that I guess yeah oh absolutely I think physical photos yeah in your home they're one of the first things that need to come down because you are going to be having to look at them every day I think on social media if if you're using it if you're active on there that they're going to end up so far down that you just almost forget they're there like I don't even think of them being there. But yeah, the physical photos, like images and frames,

that's one of the reasons how I knew that things were over because I went round and all the photos were gone. And I was like, what? So, I mean, talk about being organised. I want to end on an uplifting note. I want to talk to you about healing tactics. I know you touched on this earlier with like self-care and your skincare,

but I know in the video that you did, you spoke about journaling and how much that helped you process things. So talk to me about the kind of things you were writing in those notebooks. Was it like when you couldn't sleep, you would just kind of say what was on your mind? Did it even make any sense? Yeah, I think with journaling a lot of people are quite put off by it because they don't know how and that's something that I definitely experienced before I started because I was like oh I just don't know what you're meant to write and how do I start and do you write dear

diary because that just makes me cringe But then I realized there are no rules when it comes to journaling. Like I, my notepads were an absolute mess. I would just, there was no system to it whatsoever. I would just write whatever is on my mind. And some days I would write pages and pages and pages and couldn't stop and some days it would just be one profound line or a word and it would just be like boom that's what's happening um so I would write about um how I how I believed the relationship was um and then what the reality was to kind of comparing um I used to write in a lot of detail about the breakup itself to try and like figure that out this was at the very beginning like early early stages and then I ended up writing more about

how am I feeling today and what's going on and gradually it would become less and less about the breakup and more and more about just me and more about my career and then like friends and just what's going on today and trying to figure out how how it made me feel and just I think it was all about becoming more in tune with myself and it really helped and one thing that I do really recommend if anyone is going through a breakup is to write a list and this is going to sound so unbelievably negative and it is but it's great write a list of all the things that you despise about your ex-partner and keep adding to this list like I went in and honestly so like it doesn't matter what it is it could be like I just really really hated

the way that he drove or like something like that like it doesn't matter what it is or like that spaghetti bolognese that he made me once was disgusting but honestly like write this list it's the best thing that I ever did and I sometimes still add to it oh my god that's so good especially when you're having doubts and when you're having like vulnerable moments I can imagine just look at that list and be like oh yeah this is why we shouldn't be together because he cannot make spaghetti bolognese exactly exactly it sounds very shallow and superficial it doesn't it doesn't it can be the major things as well that actually are the significant things that are fundamentally wrong

for you like this person wasn't right for you that's why it ended so don't try and like justify like why you want to be back with them because oh they once did something really really nice like two years ago or you know whatever you need to actually realize yourself why it's ended and why this person isn't good for you so writing down the big things and the small things it's so important and honestly hands down that list has allowed me to move on and see it for what it really is and figure out what I want going forward as well most importantly it seems like you're in a really good place at the moment. So I want to know if you still have low moments and if you do, how you deal with those.

And do you find that because you've come so far, you kind of manage to shake yourself out of them much quicker? Yeah, I think because of the current situation and circumstance that we're all in with lockdown, it's really hard for me to figure out if my low moments are because of the breakup and what I went through or if it's because of lockdown and you know everyone has their low moments I actually think that when I have those low down days where I'm like lacking motivation lacking inspiration it's gray

and miserable outside it's because of lockdown I don't find myself wishing that all of this hadn't happened to me with the breakup I still feel grateful actually that it has happened. And I genuinely feel happier in that aspect of my life. I feel so much happier now. 110%. And I can't remember the last time that I sat down and felt sorry for myself about it. Because I genuinely feel really excited and optimistic and happy about the future. me feel really excited and optimistic and happy about the future um so yeah I definitely have my low moments but I think it's more connected to just being stuck at home not being able to see friends lacking motivation and inspiration with work so I don't think it is connected to that um also you know my life has changed a lot, even aside from everything that happened then in August, because in September I moved into my new flat in London, which I absolutely adore and I cannot wait to fully make the most of. I decided spontaneously to start a yoga teacher training course and I graduated in December so I'm now a qualified

yoga instructor so that all started in September as well and I literally remember the first week of the yoga course my friends having to move let the delivery men into my flat um because I was like lying in shavasana or downward facing dog and like thinking oh my god my friends will be letting in the delivery men right now oh my gosh what am I doing here I should be there like this is crazy um and then also in the same week I launched smart skin my business so September for me it was a month after the maddest breakup but also the a month of new beginnings so where I am now now that we're in March um well we it will be May when this comes out I feel like I'm still on this incredible journey of new beginnings and it's so exciting and to be a yoga instructor now and to be the founder of a skincare brand and to feel excited about

being back in my London flat and getting my London life back I feel like generally I'm in a really good happy place it's so interesting because I think everything you're saying like after you go through something really traumatic like that everyone wants to think of their life in that way and like it's a new beginning it's a new start but I think it can be quite hard to motivate yourself to really see that as true but for you because of all of these career changes but also because of the pandemic it's like everyone is going to be having a new start when we come out of this you know like in a way I can imagine that's incredibly like calming because you know that everyone else has been through shit and we're all re-entering a world that is completely different to how it was before that's so true I feel like the conversations that I'm having with my friends now it's not about

a breakup that I went through in August or breakups that they've been through in the last few months we're talking about these current circumstances that we're all going through together and I think that's incredibly helpful because it's this one thing that we really are all in like a similar place that even though obviously the pandemic and lockdown has affected everyone in very different ways it's still something that we're all having to deal with so I think the fact that within my friendship group the narrative isn't about exes and breakups and you know how awful was this a few months ago it's actually about like the here and now and new beginnings and we're just there's like this

simmering excitement of what life is going to be like um it's time for our lessons in love segment um normally I just let people share their lesson but I think with you Naomi it's obvious what I want to ask you is like what has this whole experience that you've been through taught you looking back I mean you've touched on a few things about the kind of relationship you'll look for next but I wonder if there's anything else that has kind of stood out I think it's taught me so much about myself and who I am and I honestly feel like I've gone through an amazing journey that I wouldn't have taken back to the world. And as painful as that breakup was and the heartbreak, pure agony, I wouldn't take any of it back because it forced me to really look inwards. And I think one thing with love in particular that I have learned is that infatuation is in my experience, not an everlasting love. It's,

it's not what it seems. And I can't speak for everyone because I think if you can have like because I think if you can have like that intense love and it be everlasting I mean amazing but for me I think I've realized that I've mistaken previously love and infatuation I've confused the two and it has proven to me that actually that is incredibly toxic and I'd much rather a simpler easier love and I think what this has all taught me a lot I went through this whole kind of rabbit hole of doing research into the psychology of relationships and love and then I got into astrology and horoscopes and Saturn returns I've I've done it all I've done I've been like smudging around my flats like you name it I've done it and I've tried it and so when it comes to healing I I I didn't figure out one thing that works I was

just like I'll do it all um but I during this one particular rabbit hole that I went down of my research on the psychology of love I um stumbled upon the three types of love that we have and the first is like the young puppy love the second is the hard love that tends to be just completely intoxicating it is toxic it's extreme passion but unbelievable highs unbelievable lows often a lot of cheating and lies involved and manipulation in the second love and then the third love is the easy love it's the commitment and it comes when you least expect it and it just feels right and I absolutely know the types of love that I've had so far and you can have as many by the way these are just categories so it doesn't mean that you have one love two loves it you can have as many in each category and I think when I read that piece of work I felt this excitement for the future to find that third love because I genuinely do feel

like it's out there and it's it does exist yeah it's so I totally get what you mean especially with with the second type of love and the kind of danger of infatuation. Because it's like, it's so easy. That's the kind of love that you see a lot in films. You never see the easy love in films or in TV shows or really in books. The kind of love that we're conditioned to go for is that second kind of love. And I think it's why when you do have that initial infatuation stages with someone it's really difficult to see it for what it is and see it as a red flag and actually you know when you I'm sure you've come across this in your extensive

research but when you look about abusive relationships one common tactic is this thing called love bombing where it's like at the beginning of the relationship the abusive partner will absolutely shower the other person with affection and you know buying them gifts taking them on amazing holidays and obviously it's not just about money but just like absolutely telling them they are the best things ever happened to them and who wouldn't get swept up in that you know but it's really dangerous yeah it's like well thank you Hollywood and thank you Disney because that's why we have these high expectations of what love should feel like and then when you do find that like infatuation where you've just never

felt anything like it and the passion and the love bombing like all of this it's addictive it's like a drug and then quite often I've heard with like this third type of love where it's easy and it comes when you least expect it and it's not usually the type of person that you would see yourself with sometimes the issue with that is that you're bored of it and it doesn't provide the excitement that the second love brings you because you crave that like, oh, the toxicity almost. And that's the danger of that.

But I think I'm just so done with toxic men that give me boring any day. That's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you're a new listener to this show you can subscribe to us on apple podcasts spotify acast or anywhere else you can comment and leave us a rating too so that more people can find us keep up to date with everything to do with the show on instagram just search millennial love see you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton.

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