Love Lives - Singer Freya Ridings: ‘I was an outcast until I found out I could sing’

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

Brit-nominated artist Freya Ridings joins us on Love Lives this week to discuss her second album, Blood Orange, the pressure she faced to write new material, and why we love listening to sad music when we’re feeling down.The ‘Lost Without You’ singer reveals how she created the new album, which mixes disco, pop and rock alongside the melancholic, piano-driven ballads she’s known for, and opens up about how she channelled her heartbreak into songwriting from a young age.Check out Love Lives on Independent TV and all major podcast platforms, and follow us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know a thirsty man until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like, and now that's what my grandma's on. Thank God phone a friend with Jesse Crookshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com I knew when I was 11, I was like this is now the thing that I'm going to never stop doing.

And it was weird, I was like I'll probably have other loves in my life but I feel like this could be the longest. probably have other loves in my life, but I feel like this could be the longest. Hello and welcome to Love Lives, a podcast from The Independent where I, Olivia Petter, will be asking different guests about the loves of their lives. Today I am so excited to be joined by one of my favourite musicians, Freya Ridings. She's back with her second album, Blood Orange, which mixes disco and pop alongside some of the more piano ballads that she is known and loved one of my favourite musicians, Freya Ridings. She's back with her second album, Blood Orange, which mixes disco and pop alongside some of the more piano ballads that she is known and loved for. I'm so excited to talk to her all about it today and also hear about the loves of her life. So, hi Freya, how are you? Hi Olivia, thank you so much for having me. I'm actually so excited. This is the first in-person podcast I've done in so long. It will be on Zoom for like so many years.

It's so much more fun doing it in person. I feel like you can have a real conversation. So tell us about Blood Orange. I know that this is your second album following the huge success of your debut. How did you feel when you sat down to start writing something new? I was so like terrified, like daunted isn't even the right word. It was terrified. And I think I just, I've been on tour with the first album, like Lost Without You happened in castles. And it was just like this incredible, like slow building wave. Cause like I've been writing songs since I was nine years old

and performing them since I was 11. So by the time I was, I think I was 19 when I wrote Lost Without You. So it was kind of, I felt like it had taken decades to get to that point. And then to find an independent label who really championed that and like let me write my own songs that was a really big moment for me so it just it felt like a real slow snowball that just kind of turned into this massive thing and then couldn't be stopped and it was just like it was incredible 2019 2018 and 19 were some of the most incredible years of my life and I think when you're when you're in it you kind of were just running on the adrenaline and you know if you're going through a heartbreak at the same time you

kind of use the adrenaline of being on tour to kind of run from that, like there's so much going on. And then for me to have to actually like, you know, with the pandemic and everything, it was just like silence. And I actually had to start thinking like, what do I even want to like say? Like the pressure on a second album is just, it's crushing and it's just something I've really struggled with. So I was so actually really grateful to have to come home from tour, be back in my parents' living room and just be like, okay, let's, it was almost like full circle. Like this is back where I wrote Lost Without You, back like this.

It's almost like, it felt like a weird fever dream that had even happened in the first place. But it was nice to kind of start from scratch again. And then it's the story of the last three years of my life. This album, it's kind of from heartbreak into the euphoria of like that freedom and then trying to rebuild yourself into someone who's grown up you know so yeah tell us about the process because the album I think takes us on a real journey so I think when you started writing it you were fresh

from a breakup so initially when you started writing it did you sort of envision this as like a kind of breakup album exactly when people are like why do you call it blood orange like i don't know like because at the time i didn't know why it was gonna have these two halves i thought it was just gonna be a really really sad album and i think the evolution of like how much happier the music became when i became happiest or like about halfway through and like the amount of therapy i did to kind of overcome so many i think that for the first album is a lot of like why is this happening to me and the second one is a lot more like how am I the common denominator in the things that keep happening to me like why do I keep going through the same pain again and again and again I'm wanting to just grow as a person and enjoy the fruits of that growth but it's painful it

was like physically painful but I'm so proud of what this album has given me and I'm just like I'm so relieved that it's finally out in the world after so long and so share the story of what happened with our listeners because I think it's a really lovely story about you know what happened with you and your now husband that kind of led to that lovely art that you have in the album yeah so when we started writing the album I we weren't together and I was sort of yeah I said using the adrenaline of like being we were on tour in Australia we were like you know just so much adrenaline that I could hide from it and I kind of put it out my mind and we did a whole European tour in the January before lockdown and so when we got on the flight after the final show in Australia and I realized I was like I'm coming home for the first time in what

felt like years like mentally as well to be present with the people that you love because I think you know I love this job so much but I'd almost sacrificed like everything like every relationship I was like I have to put my blinkers on and this is a once in a lifetime thing and I realized that the balance had just gone completely out of whack and that's what the song weekends is about is realizing when you you know you come home from those like professional engagements with people who you love working with to like to no one you're like holy crap hits you like a ton of bricks yeah i think it's really interesting when musicians talk about that as well because there's this feeling of being on stage in front of thousands of people and performing all of these it looks so social it looks like you just have thousands of friends and it's like it's not necessarily the

same thing as one or two very good but then i can imagine it must be so weird to leave the stage yeah and go to your dressing room and then you're just on your own. Yeah. It's a very confronting experience psychologically. When you have to save your voice or you have to pace your voice as well, you can't speak to people. And it's quite an isolating thing to do. And you're suddenly back in your bunk in a tour bus. But the thing is, I love playing live.

It's my favourite thing in the whole world. I just think I'd kind of, I'd sacrificed too much at that point. And it made my life kind of by my own doing miserable and I was like I really would love to just rebalance this life and you know put some love back into the people who I know are there for me I just haven't seen them in so long um and coming home like it gave me the time to be able to do that and I'm still so grateful for that time because I don't know if I'd be in the same position or be as happy now and so how long were you guys apart for so we have like trying to explain this people so we met at an open mic night when I was 19 yeah and my friend

bailed on me last minute and I was like I'm not gonna go my mom's outside in the car she's like just like wave if you're good and like I'll beep and like if you want to leave just come back out and get in the car so I went in and I was like I saw this like there was never any young people knew where I lived ever so basically I saw like a cool group of like people my age I was like oh my god I got up played my guitar played lost without you played a couple of other songs that I'd written that I would constantly like play around open mic nights and then I went and I sat on my own and I was like it's a bit scary because I didn't really have many I didn't go to school in my area so I didn't have any local friends but I was trying to be brave and get out of my comfort zone and basically yeah he came over

and he's like do you want to come sit with us I was like yeah you're so cool and so he's three years older than me he'd just come back from uni in Manchester um which he had a lot of friends in common but we didn't really realize um and then that was when we sort of started a friendship and we were best friends for like the next three years I think we just kind of naturally were like we respect each other as people then we we did try and write songs together and then we kind of ended up in like a civil war style band where he played cello and I played acoustic guitar he was always like my biggest champion and I think like we've seen each other grow up almost together and I was very very young I think when we met um but it was kind of only

when my mum almost died which was such a scary thing but basically she had like a pulmonary embolism where like you have like a heart attack in your lungs which is so scary and she was like hours away from death and we really didn't know she's completely fine now which is was that before you started this is in 2016 and i just signed my record deal and we were still just friends but he'd just broken up with his girlfriend um and i'd broken up with my boyfriend a while back and he just like ran to the hospital like he ran and I was like holy like it hit me I was like this is my person like I've always loved him so much but that moment he was just there for me um but then after that there was lots of like back and forth like you know you went out to someone else like I wished it was me like there was like a lot of like we kind of both went through our like different douchebag phases

at different times you know and then I feel like all of the touring all of like there was like a lot of like we kind of both went through our like different douchebag phases at different times you know and then I feel like all of the touring all of like there was a lot of me being like I'm going to tour like I can't do this to you and it was kind of a lot of back and forth and I think I have written songs about other people they're not all just about him I think people should like caveat that but I use a lot of kind of emotional like sausage mincemeat in songs like it's not always about one person like castles isn't about one person um lost without you is but um it's just it's been such a journey to get to the point where we're both happy and grounded and and like each other's biggest champions you know and he's a musician and a singer-songwriter and we do the same thing and now it's a positive you know we're past that competition we're into the kind of really like champion each other so it's like you kind of needed that time apart in

order to i guess a hundred percent i don't think either of us would take it back yeah yeah i think it really made us into the people and where we like respect we've always respected each other massively as people but i think respecting the relationship and respecting the weight of that and realizing that there's a lot of people in the world but none of them really compare to someone that knows you like really knows you you know it's so interesting listening to the album from start to finish in its in its proper order because i think it takes you on that real journey in terms of it really guides you through like sort of like the five stages of grief but the five stages of heartbreak you have that you have that

kind of initial sense of liberation and thinking i'm free from this terrible relationship and then you have those moments where you think oh actually i kind of miss them and oh I wonder if they're with someone new and that doesn't make me feel very comfortable and then you kind of go back and you're like no I'm a single independent woman I'm free I can be alone and then you're like oh no but I'm a bit tired and I'm a bit vulnerable and I miss them and it's very much that kind of up and down cycle and the songs really really reflect that was that I love that you can hear that yeah there's definitely there's definitely that in there you can really hear that I was gonna ask is that like an intentional thing and do you think that do you think that we do go through those sort of very rigid stages and heartbreak massively like you're right it's like

grief there's nothing linear about it like you can take three steps forward and then be like five steps back and then be like massive you know but it's just that continual like that's why I was really really obsessed with doing the inner work and the growth that I don't think I had had the time to do like you know it's not success and fame are just so much easier than like actually working on yourself and putting in the time and effort like that it's scary like it's really scary no one's gonna tell you that you need to sit down and work on yourself if you're kind of like you know booking shows no they'll be just like well done you just keep running from it like keep running on the adrenaline it's like okay yeah um tell me a little bit more about how having therapy kind of informed your songwriting process because you said the first album was sort of like you know stuff that

you just needed to get out and now you kind of have that greater level of i guess self-awareness is that it yeah for many years people were like you know songwriting is like therapy like it's like therapy but it isn't therapy I think that's a really clear distinction it's like it's really good to do both um and to sort of unpack that someone said it was like you know your thoughts are kind of like stars and like therapy is like seeing constellations and just seeing the way it connects and I think I'd especially when it comes to music there's so many emotional bonds and ties that makes you anyone want to do this as a career you know like it's it's quite a insane thing to actually want to do like think of your biggest secrets and share them with people you

know with major chords underneath them it's just a bit wild but I think there is that craving for connection and sort of like looking into why you you do that and making sure it's coming from a really grounded place you're not just doing it for the validation that you can't give yourself because that's that's where danger lies so I was really really intent on finding out how I can you know build that bedrock of self-esteem so that this music can be a joy on top it's not like you know it won't break me if it disappeared tomorrow like I will always have my piano and I will always just sit and play it until I'm, you know, 80 years old. Things going well or not going well, that can't be how you see yourself, you know?

Yeah. And I want to ask you a bit about your songwriting process more specifically, because I know that you wrote the song Happier Alone after you realised that you were spending time with someone who you thought was great, but you came away from those exchanges feeling really kind of drained and sort of miserable. And I want to ask you a bit about how a thought like that turns into a, you know, this could be a song and what that is like and how you kind of recognise when a thought is just sort of a passing transitory thing

or when you realise, no, there's something in this that I want to kind of explore further through my music such a good question I really love that question because I think especially happy alone yeah is not written about my husband in the slightest but it's definitely a song that it's just when you're spending time with someone it was a friend of a friend and it wasn't like you didn't choose that person into your life but suddenly they're really like having a negative impact on you and you can't really put your finger on why or like really belittling you and making you feel really bad about yourself

every time you are in this group that you normally love. And suddenly I was just like, it was just such a lightning bolt moment where I was like, oh my God, it's definitely them. Like they're not a bad person, but they're making me feel really bad. And I would actually feel better if I just didn't go and see this person,

you know, at events and stuff. And yeah, I was in LA and it was just, it was such a forbidden subject for me to sing about honestly at the time because it was someone close to my husband's family and I just I really didn't want them to know that I think part of the forbidden nature of not songwriting is not being able to tell people things and telling them via songs that's what I think or not being able to admit stuff to yourself and telling yourself via songs yeah I'd say it's the same with um writing fiction yeah as well um because I'm finding that with with I interview a lot of authors as well and kind of talk about how you know there are certain things that we will write in an article or a journalism piece and then there are certain things that you want to express that

you can't that way for certain reasons so it's easier to to fictionalize it narrativize it and put it into creative work does it feel cathartic then for you when you put those things into songs I think so yeah like there's obviously pressure like you want it to be successful but it's only when you really let go of that that you actually get the freedom to enjoy it and for it to be cathartic. I think there is an element of it. I think I want to get back to that fully cathartic feeling. Cause like the more, the more success or something you get,

the more pressure there is to match it. And I feel like that kind of pressure was the opposite of that creativity. So yeah, I think this album in some ways was a joy to make. And in other ways it was like really hard to make. Like, I think I really, really struggled with quite a lot of it. And it and like you know my label was kind of non-existent during that but basically they shut down without telling us so they were kind of like you're on your own kid I'm like great I'm like to make a second album on your own but that's the thing like we built a studio in the garden shed like to do the first half in Covid we went to spend three weeks no three months in LA

doing like some of the best writing of my life and I think it was like sometimes having to pick yourself up out of the dirt is like is the best feeling because it's like you have that ownership and that grit and determination to just kind of build yourself back up just like I always sing about like in castles it's like one of my recurring themes it's like rising like a phoenix and you've said that um you know and hearing you talking about the pressure of writing a second album is reminding me of this anyway. But having recently watched Lewis Capaldi's documentary, which is sort of about the pressure of making his second album. And I know that you said that you have felt kind of parallels between your career and his own. And I can see why, because it was sort of the instant success and the instant kind of attention. And, you know, I'm sure it doesn't feel that way to

you, but that's how it looks to an outsider. And the pressure of that, you know, you were so young when you started. And I guess it's very easy to get kind of caught up in the attention and the fame and the success and people telling you you're brilliant. And like you said, not taking the time to step away and realize, you know, I need to work on various things

and myself and prioritize my health and stuff what what was it for you that resonated with Lewis Capaldi and how did you find that sudden the sudden aspect of it all because it's a lot to take it really is yeah I love Lewis I think he's amazing and like we kind of grew up in like similar well not grew up but like in the sort of like independent like label scene like we made our same i made demos and we made it in the same like tiny little broom closet at this at the independent label that i was signed to um like with the worst mic you've ever seen in your life which is actually the mic i recorded lost value on and i remember just thinking like and we we supported i supported him in 2017 like some of the really really early days and you just

there were some voices that just like your whole spine just gets children like that is stunning like I'm just obsessed with him like as a songwriter and a person I think he's phenomenal and so so kind but I think the level of pressure like watching the documentary it just made me feel so much better because I think when you're going through it you have no idea that anyone else is feeling the same as you but then you realize that making a second album is notoriously like one of the hardest things you will ever do I don't think anything will ever be that hard again and watching like you know the sacrifices that he's been through like you know on his mental health it's just like it really it really hits home that you're like oh it could have broken me like it really could this this job isn't known to be like the kindest on your mental

health and it's like oh like you do have to fight for it and find people who will fight for your sanity while you're doing it to you know be on your side but yeah just made me really emotional to watch it because I was like obviously like saying like I see similarities like he's like incredible but I don't see similarities more than just like just to be a very sort of sensitive very sort of like person under a huge amount of pressure and I think it's the same and like you're saying like writing a novel right any kind of art when you kind of get people who are incentivized to sell more of you they want more of you and it's like there's only so much to give before you don't have anything left well

that's what I find so interesting about all of the artists who I interview is that you know they they start this kind of creative pursuit which just comes from a part of them, which is often the sensitive part and the vulnerable part. And then suddenly that part is being commodified and other people are controlling it and manipulating it and trying to turn it into something that maybe you're not comfortable with and pushing you into places that are far out of your comfort zone and then it becomes something very different so how do you how do you navigate that how did you manage to kind of protect yourself do you think I mean it sounds like Covid kind of forced you into that a little bit yeah a little bit it was a blessing I was choosing to see it as a massive blessing because I was like finally I'm gonna have going to have the time to like really, really hear like what my heart wants to make instead of what other people think I should make. And I think there's still a bit of like what other

people thought I should sound like on this album. And it's still kind of like, it is what it is, but you have to trust people when like, there's no one else giving you that feedback. And to me, like the fans, their feedback is like the only thing that I actually care about. Because playing songs over mic nights, that biofeedback was like feeling a room feeling an audience that's how I started and then to sort of try and make an album with not playing any of the songs live was really really scary so I started doing these weekly online live shows on Instagram and like playing the new songs and like seeing what the fans thought but like at the end of the day like there isn't there isn't any sort of you just I needed the

support of a label and I basically just didn't have one but the fans like turned up for me and they always do and I love them for that and that's why I will keep making music for the foreseeable but without that it's it's hard to do on your own I think yeah and I think it's interesting because I know you've said of starting this album you said there's a weird feeling where you feel you've been so rewarded for your pain and heartbreak. You start to think, do I have to live like this forever? Yeah. And I think it's interesting because, you know, you kind of shot to success because of these beautiful, sad ballads that you were writing. Yeah.

And it's like your people are profiting from, you know you are profiting from your own pain but that is obviously not sustainable and a really difficult thing to do how how do you reckon with that and I know that you know even though the songs at the start of the album this time around lyrically they're about you know painful subjects musically they're very uplifting is that how you kind of strike the right balance there or how do you navigate that I think like I'm a ballad girl at heart like that's just who I am like sitting down at the piano is just like I'm just sort of shutting my eyes that's how I write and I think there was a lot of pressure to be like let's make something more upbeat and like a bit more you know like current and it's just like I don't know I tried to like pretzel myself into a different kind of artist to make you know the powers that be happy

and it's like it didn't make anyone happy it didn't make me happy didn't make them happy and there are still a few songs on this album that are like 100% written by me and like I love them so much there's like almost like a sister song to Lost Without You called Facing the Crowd and I feel like that already like you can just see on Spotify that people are really only resonating with the songs that like I really really found like enjoyable to make not just like cathartic but like yeah when someone tells you what to be it's like that's never a good thing you know you've got to kind of listen to your gut as an artist and kind of champion that and I think I've learned I've learned so much making the second

record that I would take on to the third but also so much that I would leave behind yeah it's that it's that kind of classic um star is born story isn't it I'm just like picturing Lady Gaga being like kind of put into all of these weird costumes and being told to do all of these weird songs do you think it would have been if you had just said yes to everything that came your way it would have been easy to kind of slip into that kind of part 100% and there's so many things like it just gives me so much more respect for other female artists because I'm like I now know that to get to whatever level of like authenticity that you have to fight so hard to hold on to that like in a really loving way but you have to not like your boundaries have to be strong because people will push them and be like what if you were just like that other person

and it's like that's not what got you there what got you there you know? And, you know, whenever I look at like Lana Del Rey or like Florence or, you know, Taylor Swift, like these incredible, like just female titans of pop, but they are just indomitably like themselves, lyrically, like musically, like no one has had a say in that but them. Yeah. No one.

It's not easy to get there either. And, you know, I've interviewed quite a lot of female musicians and there's a lot of, you know, it's hard being a woman in any industry, but I think it's particularly hard being a woman in music. What do you think are some of the kind of biggest issues facing women in music now? Is it because there's so many things going on? Is it is it having control over your music and where it goes? Is it having control over your image? What kind of things are there that are going on? It's interesting.

Like I've never, I mean, you're completely right. It's just hard to be a woman in an industry. It's like, you do have things against you. But I think my mum always championed that. My dad was like writing your own songs. That's the only power you have. And if you can't write the songs, then, you know, if I was waiting for someone to write me a hit,

like I would still be waiting. Like I would wait forever. And I'm so, so like grateful that they championed me for that. Cause I used to be like, oh, like, wouldn't it be great if someone could just write songs for me or like play my guitar for me. And they were like, this is, you know, you being able to actually play and write is going to be the thing that saves you. I'm like, okay. Yeah. And also it's the thing that your fans connect with, I guess.

Yeah. Because then they know that what you're singing about is personal to you and it becomes personal to them. A hundred percent. I don't think people realise like the artists who write a hundred percent themselves and the ones who have like 10 people in a room written for them i don't think people really realize how different that is they just hear like song after song after song they're like i like that song that's all you need to know but i think behind the scenes like that is the only power and i think then you get to decide things like your image and your you know brands and that kind of authentic thing but there is a kind of like a leveling of playing

field like don't want to be the person that's like tiktok but it's true it's like i guess it gives people like a sort of more grounded like view of what's possible because they're not the gatekeepers anymore they don't decide what what people find and what people don't find there's just a lot more people doing it so it's trying to stand out and be consistent and authentic is it's in some ways harder than it was but it's also more possible yeah and I mean listening to the album last night and I said this before we started recording it did make me cry which probably gives you an insight into my brain and also where I'm at in my menstrual cycle but I did I did cry particularly to one of the songs I'm fine I promise

I'm fine um the song song that I wanted to ask you about was last day that you loved me because I thought that was such a strong image where you're kind of contemplating with an ex-partner you know when was it the moment that you decided that you didn't love me anymore and I think that's a really interesting thing to think about what what was it that kind of made you want to write about that and what was it like to to write that song and put those thoughts into writing I mean thank you for choosing that song because I feel like that song is probably the because it's more towards the end of the album you know other songs get a lot more sort of like love and focus

and I do like I think there are songs on the album that will kind of like jump out at like different stages you know and that one for me was one that I really really enjoyed writing just because it came from like a concept mixed with a true idea um and it was actually a friend and she was I don't even know if I've ever said this before well she was going through a divorce and basically she was like you know 10 years of a relationship and then just one day he just leaves I could just feel like the palpable heartbreak of that and I remember relationships with myself being like, and she said, like, I don't know. I literally don't know the moment

when he, like the last day he loved me. And I was like, holy shit. Like there is a moment. You can't put your finger on it. They might not even be able to put their finger on it, but you can drive yourself crazy just trying to work out what that moment was. Like it will give you some peace

or some clarity or closure. It won't, but yeah, it's things our minds do after relationships end to try and make it feel more like you know a plaster like a bow like just something just to stop you know put a full stop in it yeah I think nothing makes your brain more unhinged than a breakup it goes to the darkest places and like you said it's not going to give you any clarity or any kind of catharsis in any way it's just but it's just you need to feel like you need to know what was that moment was it something I said was it something I wore was it yeah it could be anything the truth is well like you'll never know and like if that person was able to give you closure then

you'd probably still be with them you know so it's like they're never going to give you that but I think it was just a really like I just really enjoyed going on that journey of like my past relationships being like when was that day like was it this moment was at that moment and it was like you're never gonna know but these are you're either growing together or you're growing apart but there is these defining moments in all of our relationships where we're like oh okay something did change yeah before we move on to the loves of your life I want to ask you just generally you know life is pretty tough uh but we love sad music we love listening to songs that as I said make us cry and you know really kind of touch us emotionally what do you think is the power of of sad music for lack of a better descriptor but why do you think we are still so drawn to to ballads and that kind of genre

that's such a good question again I like these questions um I think basically I hadn't realized this but I was like I was in the dentist it's such a weird one and I was having like a really really painful like I'm so scared of needles oh my god and basically like I felt the pain of the needles like this is the worst thing ever and I basically just started like singing like like a trumpet noise kind of like this noise came out and I was like I just is the worst thing ever. And I basically just started like singing, like a trumpet noise. I was like, like this noise came out. And I was like, I just uncontrollably started singing. Like my initial reaction. And my mom told me this story

when she was giving birth to me. I like, it was like the worst labor ever. It was like 36 hours and we almost both died. And she was like, she just sang her way through it. And she's not a singer or anything. She just, she just started singing. And she was like, sometimes things are- What was she singing?

I know, I think there's a song her and my dad used to sing, like folk songs. And she just started singing them she was like sometimes things are singing I know I think there's a song her and my dad just think like folk songs and she just started singing them they started singing them to each other and my dad's like a guitarist and sings and stuff and he sings but she doesn't so it was strange that that's where she went and she said for her there were just some things in life that are so painful there was there was nothing you can't help but sing and I think it is like it's more than a coping mechanism it's kind of like the closest thing you can have to medicine when you are like in emotional agony you know there's nothing there's nowhere else to go I think you know singing like dancing writing like these things save us and I think they saved our ancestors and they're still like so deeply within us that the idea of like

coming together and singing about our pain instead of suffering in silence is still like one of the most beautiful things I can imagine and I used to just be like oh it's just pop music it's just songs like it's you know I love it's not just that it's a song is a really powerful thing but I think some of the messages that I get especially about Lost Without You like you know people have played that song at you know their children's funerals and like their weddings. And there's like these moments that I cannot even comprehend. And I'm like, sometimes you just have to take a second and like really take that in and just feel that gratitude for the fact that I've been able to make something

that has been part of real people's lives and like that's had an impact. And I've managed to connect with people that I will probably never even meet, you know? Yeah, it's a really strange but sublime thing. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. I'm Jessie Cruikshank and on my podcast, Phone a Friend, Here's a show that we recommend. I didn't even know a thirsty man until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween. Facebook is like a no.

That's what my grandma's on. Thank God Phone a Friend with Jesse Crookshank is not available on Facebook. It's out now wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Okay, let's move on to your love. So the first one that you've given us is playing piano and songwriting, but I'm pleased you did because I want to hear a bit more about how you first fell in love with music.

And you said you were nine when you started playing songs. So tell us a bit more about how you first fell in love with music and you know you said you were nine when you started yeah playing songs so tell us a bit more about that and you know how you knew this was kind of what you were meant to do well like my family are actors and my dad like loves music more than anything he like plays guitar and sits around the kitchen table talking about storytelling and songwriting it's his like his biggest passion in life and my mum is also an actor and she plays Celtic harp and she is also a writer and she's just finished her first novel which is unbelievably beautiful I'm so proud of her such a stunning book um but basically I think it was just growing up watching their love for you know music songwriting and

specifically like you know big ballads of like female big ballads was like their thing and um for me I was like I was a strange child like I was you know taller than all the other kids I was redhead like I was quite big as well I was just bigger than the other kids you know quite young and I think for me that made me such an outcast at school but at home I was so loved you know and I had all my aunties and uncles and godmothers and godfathers who are actors and they're all such champions of me being like let's put on shows that's like let's write songs let's do stuff together and then I go to school and I'd just be completely like ostracized and like ridiculed and it was just it was just these two completely different worlds for me so I just kind of shut down and I went into my shell and I became kind of like a zombie version of myself at school

and then there was one day where I got piano lessons when I was like seven I think there was some like complimentary like you could get three free piano lessons as like a seven-year-old and I was like okay I can do this and my mum had sort of I'd seen her play so I went to do it and um I had a really really sweet piano teacher the first one she had really really long fingernails she could like barely play she called Belle she's really sweet she was like I'm gonna show you how to play the chords and I was like okay I can learn like this and then she was like well we're going to try and like learn to read music and I was like I've really struggled because I was really dyslexic at school so I was really struggling with reading and writing to begin with

like speaking like talking like love that I could do that for days but actually holding a pen I was like really really struggling with that so she was like okay we'll just teach you some chords and see what you can do with that and I went home that night and I wrote a song about um people like being mean to me at school and like leaving me out and that was the first time where I was like I felt like I'd turned something really inescapable and painful into something like good and like beautiful I was like oh my god I turned something painful into something and it was like this moment this kind of like Rumpelstiltskin like moment no not him you know the girl who can tell stuff and pay into gold yes yeah it was like I turned this big pile of like Rumpelstiltskin like moment no not him you know the girl who can tell stuff pay into gold yes yeah it was like I turned this big pile of like shit into something good and I was like

oh my god I want to do that again that was a real life-changing moment for me and also it was the first time I'd ever felt good at anything my mum was determined to find the thing that I loved like it was her mission in life like we went to athletic lessons I couldn't throw anything shit we went to trampoline lessons I like fell off the trampoline she was like we're not gonna stop until we find the thing you love like you're gonna you know because they're such passionate incredible people and they were like you're gonna find that thing and like I thought it was like art for a bit it's debatable and this was the moment I was like I really loved this and she's like right okay let's get you know she said like I'll never stop paying for the music lessons like they didn't have a lot of money growing up like we had a really old piano and like the keys would literally

fall off it and the piano teacher was like you really need to get her a better piano and they were like and it was actually my auntie went through a divorce bless her but she didn't want the piano that her ex-husband had given her and she gave it to me and that's the only reason that I wrote any of these these songs yeah and it's still the same piano sat in their front room at the moment and it means so much to me that piano because it did it changed my life and when did you kind of know that you had a good voice because I feel like you know young girls always you know oh I want to be a pop star but not everyone has a voice like yours how did you was there a moment when you were kind of singing for someone in your family and they were like oh my gosh there was

there were a couple of moments it was around the time where I was about sort of like eight or like seven or eight and I think yeah I was watching Love Actually and you know the moment with the little girl where she sings like like I don't want to look for Christmas at the end I remember being like whoa like she's so cool so growing up she's like 12 or something and I was like I wonder if I could do that and I went to my bedroom and I was like singing into my hand I was like and I was like and I called like my best friend at the time like on the landline I was like I think I can sing and she was like okay cool and then the next day in school she's like everyone I think I can sing and they were like yeah whatever but it kind of like there was a moment where this girl like the next school I

went to was like like I was so like left out and she was like everyone I can sing like they all like gathered around me and I sang something they were like whoa it was like the first time I'd been treated like a human being at school and I was like yes so cool then there'd be these nights these sort of talent show nights like once or twice a year and it was like the whole night it was the first time I felt like I was like my true self outside of my home and yeah there was just a moment this open mic night when I was like 11 and I played these two songs I'd written and it just went crazy and I was like I was like I found it I found the thing I love and then when I find something like that I'm pretty like persistent and like I just became obsessed with it it was like every lunchtime after school every day I'd just be in the piano room just like

writing you know I made friends with the janitor and like she'd like give me the key and stuff and when no one else would let me in there I'd like sneak in there and be just like it was quite a rebellious act for me which I loved and at what point did you decide this is more than a hobby this is something I want to pursue I knew when I was 11 I was like this is now the thing that I'm going to never stop doing and it was weird I was like I'll probably have other loves in my life but I feel like this could be the longest I was like it hit me and how was a lightning bolt how did you go into getting signed and getting your first that was really hard um well my parents basically like we didn't know anyone in the music industry

I think people think because you're actors you don't know anyone literally like my dad you know writes and plays and stuff it doesn't mean you know anyone but so basically my mom's like the next best thing you can't read music so maybe you know the brit school would be like the next best thing and I used to see like at the brit awards they'd all be in the front row and I knew Adele went there and Amy Winehouse and I loved them I was like I would love to go there for sixth form I missed the first um application process so it was the second time the 16 to 18 slot um and we were really really lucky my my nana gave me some money to be able to go and move down there um and we basically like found this like tiny little flat in the middle of Croydon there's

like no furniture on the floor we had a mattress on the floor for like two years basically um we didn't have furniture yeah it was crazy um there's no wi-fi but basically I had a mirror I had a mattress and had a good and a acoustic guitar and I'd come back every day from Brit school and I'd put the mattress up and I'd like I'd dance and I'd play and I'd sing and that was what I did for two years and that's when I came out of the Brit school and I was like I thought I was gonna get signed didn't it's heartbroken and then there was a guy who I went to the Brit school with who was interning an indie label and they were like what have you got new kid like anything for us and he's like well actually my friend like from school was pretty

good and so he gave them I think it was a demo of Lost Without You and that changed everything and that's how it happened that was three years after I left the Brit school though I remember for three years just playing over my night nights around London thinking like I was like please let something work please let something work because I think people assume you come out of a school like that and like you get a record deal no no no yeah I transformed pretty drastically during that like when I went to the Brit school I was yeah I was quite significantly bigger and I lost about like half my body weight and I did my sort of transformation glow up kind of like out of the cocoon the butterfly shall come and I don't think people from the Brits would even recognize me now to be fair I mean this sort of brings me on to your second love that you gave us which you said helped kind

of transform your life yeah that age which which is intuitive eating yeah I is a phrase that I have heard of yeah I don't really know what it means so can you tell us a bit about what it is what it means and how it helps you? So, yeah, I've struggled with my weight my entire life, but not even consciously. I think it was just like the more unhappy I was at school, the more of a physical defense I needed. It's not something I really have spoken about before, but I knew to do what I loved, which was to be a singer-songwriter. You need energy. You need, you know, the performance to be able to like travel the world and like do what you love. I was like, I know that I was going to have to do a pretty intense sort of glow up. And when I was 16, I was, I was pretty low in the

summer. And after I was homeschooled for a couple of years, that's probably the biggest I've ever been. And my mom went to the secondhand bookshop and she got me this copy of, it was called Paul McKenna's I Can Make You Fit, which is such a shit phrase, but it's honestly one of, this book changed my life, like beyond words. It's a really, really simple set of like intuitive eating rules. And I tried so many things and like diets and exercise and nothing was working because it was so much more emotional than that. And it was so much less about restriction and a lot more about like just self-compassion and like kindness and allowing you to eat whatever you want, but just really be present as you eat it instead of using food using food as a kind of an escape like so many people do it's it's like I still can do it's like it's just always you know like being a drug addict like there's always that

road in you and you have to actively on a daily basis like fight it you know and I've started I started a journal when I was 16 and I've written a journal every single night for now 13 years, which is, I'd say the biggest defining thing of my life, because it gives you that accountability to just be like, I'm just doing this day in front of me, no matter what goal you're going for. And yeah, I basically, between that and like dancing in front of, in the kitchen at night at my parents' house, I basically, I think I lost 10 stone yeah which is crazy and basically became a completely different person basically who I was before I went to school

like you know I was a little girl with like bouncy like ringlets and like fiery energy and like that was who I was and I kind of got knocked out of me at school and then I just I came back out of that shell and yeah basically without that book I actually got to do Paul McKenna's podcast um in lockdown I couldn't even talk to him. I was literally like, you have no idea how many times I've written your name in my diary over so many years. I was like, today I did Paul McKenna or today I fell off the wagon or today. Like he's just an incredible man.

And I'm just so, so grateful to him for that book. I mean, you must have met so many famous people in your career. And I'm guessing is he the one you were starstruck by the most? Yeah, 100%. I've met some really famous people and he is just, because I think it's not just starstruck, it's like the people that have had the biggest impact on your life. Well, that's what it is.

Yeah, yeah, that's what it is. I think that's what makes you kind of in awe of someone. Yeah. And how does that work when you're touring then? Because I know that that can be really difficult in terms of sticking to a routine, sticking to your kind of, the way that you like to eat. How do you navigate that? I find it really helpful for when I'm touring especially because you're right like looking after your physical health and mental health and it's like you can spiral very

easily like I don't really drink when I'm working which is that really really helps because it messes up your voice um but when it comes to eating yeah basically on a daily basis I'm just like trying to stay as conscious and consistent as possible and my diary helps me do that but it's actually really really great because it's not like you're sort of restricted by the kinds of food you can eat so you can eat whatever you want but just like it's just making sure you don't get so stressed that you kind of start mindlessly eating or using it to escape again because I think that's where the danger zone lies for me um but yeah I still I still do my my star my stickers in my diary every night and I either get that sticker or I don't and it's it's it's really helped me break it down into manageable stars and stickers in the diary yeah

is that part of the book explain that how's that well basically I buy like I've actually been buying these like liberties it's like a notebook every year and then like I get like colored stickers and they count for like a different goal for the day so whether that's like movement or like I've really been into getting into like steps at the moment like you know 15,000 steps or like 10,000 um and basically just like showing up for yourself like the diary is one and then whether I did music and I did my my hour singing left like I do a like singing training lesson and basically if you've you know what kind of day you've had as long as I've hit my stickers like I've had a good day you know it just kind of breaks it down and makes it much less like looking up at a mountain and much more just like one step in front of you you know yeah I love that because

it's taking something that is very very childlike yeah getting your little sticker it makes you feel good you're like I got my stickers yeah and that sort of brings us to your final love which is journaling and vision boarding and life coaching yeah and so tell us a little bit about I mean start off with vision boarding because I think that is something that people have an idea of in their heads you know manifesting is something that has become much bigger in the last six months it's become so popular there are so many things that I've been obsessed with for so long that have just become really popular on TikTok and I'm like wow I love that people are sharing these ideas and like it can reach a further audience because I think it's

so powerful and at the time I didn't believe in it at all I thought it was utter bullshit I was like this is not going to work at all so when did you start kind of doing this stuff and and yeah explain to us what is vision boarding um so there's kind of like a couple of elements to it basically my mum's friend she wanted to train to be a life coach and she's an incredible woman called Kelly I love you Kelly and basically she was looking for a guinea pig to practice her life coaching on and she's like she knew I was about 21 I hadn't been signed and I was actually considering giving up music I was like this is really hard like I don't think anything's gonna work and she's like just come in for a

practice session we're just like I'm learning as much as like you'll we'll just give it a go and she basically you know made me like sort of visualize and say out loud my dream life and I was like there's literally no point Kelly like I'm not going to get it like I've tried three years of playing I've written this song called Lost Without You like three years ago no one cares like I should probably just retire and she's like okay let's start there but in a dream world what would it look like and I was like so I'd love to play at this place called St Pancras Old Church that I saw a friend of a friend play in like I'd love to play on a red Nord St Pancras Old Church that I saw a friend of a friend play in. Like I'd love to play on a red Nord keyboard. And I really visualized it.

And I was like, and it could be like an album launch or something like that. And then I also visualized like being on the West, down the West Coast of America in a van, like being on tour, like looking out and like seeing like the beautiful views of like the sea and the ocean, but like playing these shows. And I was like, it felt impossible. And a year to the day, like I was sat in St Pancras, like playing a Nord at my album launch, like a year to the day like I was sat in St Pancras like playing an order my album launched like wow a year to the day and it was insanely specific and I was like there was no way that worked I think definitely like speaking out loud and really visualizing it did something to me it

sort of reset my like my subconscious like programming just changed and I suddenly became like there was something that was possible then you know because you'd been there in your head and even recently I haven't like even said this but when it came to like being on the Graham Norton show and stuff so basically at Christmas I was like I haven't done manifesto in a while it's been a while um and I was like what would I really really want I was like I'd love to be on the Graham Norton show I really would like I've loved this show my whole life I went to go see the show when I was 18 like in the audience and I was like I really visualized like sitting on the red sofa, like what the sofa felt like. I imagined him like calling me over.

Like I'd never even met Graham at that point. And then it was like a week later, they were like, do you want to come on his radio show? And I was like, yeah, that sounds great. Like they were like, you'll never get the TV show because no one does. And also like, it's the end of the series. Like it's over, like it's pretty much done. And I went and we just like, I got up at five in the morning to warm up.

I was like, I'm going to give this my best shot. I played these songs that I could like this cover and I gave it my best. And we just really, really clicked. And he was so lovely. And he was like, it was really, really lovely to meet you. I was like, you too, Graham. And then I think it was three days later, like even his own producer was like, there's no chance.

This show is like 15 people should go this final slot. Like, but maybe next series. I was like, okay, all good. Like that's after the album comes out. All good. And then we got a phone call three days later and Graham was like, you're going on. And like, I was like, I'm not. I was like, yeah good like that's after the album comes out all good um and then we got a phone call three days later and Graham was like you're going on and like I was like I'm not I was like yeah this is insane so I think there was like there were these beautiful moments these glimmers of like magic that I'm not even sure where they've really come from and like I didn't

even believe it as I visualized it and it still sort of came true but I just think I'd there is sort of multiple realities and I'm definitely living in the one where like things went right. And I'm just so grateful on a daily basis for that. And what was it like when you went on the show? It was so cool. It was like frame for frame, like exactly what I'd seen. And I was like,

like it was literally almost like deja vu, but like it hadn't already happened. Yeah. Who were you on there with? So we were on with like Pedro Pascal, Dame Helen Mirren and Arianariana du bois and they were so lovely to me and it was just incredible that's amazing and and so how does it work in terms of the the journaling i know you said you know with the stickers and the stars but do you

do it sort of every night before you go to bed every night and how long do you write for what just that one page i like i find it like quite like to only have to do a page because sometimes there are some nights where I like I do not have it in me and I'm like I really don't want to do it it's most nights I don't want to do it to be fair but I always feel so much better and I feel like that accountability just makes you feel like you know you turn up for so many other people in your life and it's like that one moment you're turning up for yourself and like to really you know say thank you for the moments in the day that are really like like made you feel better about yourself and for the people that you love as well just finding those moments of gratitude but also just like keeping yourself

accountable to what you're actually doing with your life and if you're enjoying yourself or if people in your life are good for you or not yeah and finally before we wrap up sitting here now recording this podcast what do you want to put into the universe what are you manifesting next the second album's out I know you've got really busy summer what are you kind of thinking about visually at the moment I think the thing I'm finding really exciting at the moment is just this feeling of like I literally feel like I'm like buzzing with like like potential of like joy and freedom that I haven't had in such a long time like I don't know there's kind of like yeah what I'm going to put out into the universe is that I really want to do more songs and for film TV. Like we've just written this song for a film

that's coming out at the end of the month. And that's something I put on my very first ever physical vision board. I've never made a physical one before. I've done loads online. I've done Pinterest ones. This is the first time I went to like Kodak. I got these printed out. I cut them out. I got Pritt sticker. I was like on the floor for like three hours. I had to be like to my husband. I was like, I need a bigger board. I was like, like my dreams are too big he literally went out to the shop and like came back with a bigger board and he found me this little like tiny orange tree as well they're really really sour I ate some but it was just like it was such a beautiful moment and I was like I think even admitting to myself how much I love film music and tv you know all of these moments

in my life like love island like the sinks that I've got it's like for me like film music pop songs and like tv and film like those are my. It's like for me, like film music, pop songs and like TV and film, like those are my three loves. And I would love to like manifest writing more songs for film and TV after this. Amazing. Okay, it's in the universe. It's going to happen. That's it for today.

Thank you so much everyone for listening. You can listen to Love Lives on all major podcast platforms. You can also watch us on independent TV, all social media platforms and all major connected devices. I will see you soon. Bye. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans,

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