Love Lives - Spencer Matthews and Vogue Williams on family life in the public eye

Episode Date: October 18, 2019

Reality TV stars Spencer Matthews and Vogue Williams join Olivia in the studio to discuss sharing the ins and outs of their family life with the public eye. The couple talk about why they choose to share so much with their fans on social media and TV and Spencer explains why he doesn’t ‘get’ social media influencers despite the fact that is what Vogue does.Spencer also opens up about his Made in Chelsea days and explains why he thinks the programme has lost its touch in 2019. Spencer and Vogue’s new show, Spencer, Vogue and Wedding Two, starts on E4 on Monday at 10pm.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, a podcast from The Independent focusing on everything to do with sexuality, relationships, identity and more. We touch on a wide variety of topics, ranging from how to have feminist sex to how dating has changed in the post-MeToo era. I'm your host Olivia Petter and today I'm joined by TV stars Spencer Matthews and Vogue Williams to discuss family life in the public eye. Hello! Hello. So you guys both starred in a TV show earlier this year about preparing for the arrival of your son Theodore and you've just done another series which is going to air on Monday in a few days about your second wedding ceremony. Yes. So prior to that Spencer you were on Made in Chelsea for how many years? Amongst pretty much every other reality show. Yeah. But yes I was on

Made in Chelsea for what feels like a lifetime but I think it was six years so on all of those shows and the show that you guys do together and combining that with social media you guys share quite a lot of your lives with the public is that a fair statement well you'd kind of think that but um not really like we what we film for a tv show is like parts of our day that we want to film and it's nothing secretive or anything like that social media as you know and i always want people to know that it's like a snapshot into someone's life so it's like the best part of someone's day and and that's only like what a minute and a half of someone's day so it looks like we share a lot i wouldn't say that we're very private but like we do have certain things that are private to agree to agree with vogue though yeah it is kind of snippets i myself don't really like social media i post extremely rarely unless it's

kind of for work uh or i love it yeah no vogue does love it but but as well with the tv stuff it's kind of you i've always seen it as a business or a market you know to kind of tap into it you know when back when maiden chelsea was at its, it was very dramatic. You know, the point of our show is driven by humour. You know, so we have fun with every job that we do is different. And it's not really about showcasing ourselves. It's about having fun, you know, in a market and tapping into new things. For me, anyway, I'm sure a lot of people do reality television

to be on it for themselves. Vogue and I just have fun having a laugh filming our show. It's comedy driven. Yeah, I was going to say, so presumably the reason why you do this is because you enjoy making that show and enjoy sharing that part of your lives with people. Yeah, it's really nice.

And we get paid. And we get paid, yes. That's the nice part. I've done a little reality as well before reality shows, but this one feels a little bit different. Fade street for anyone who wants to Google. Yeah, this one feels a little bit different. I mean, we have a crew that we work with that are just they just come into

our house and it just feels like your mates are coming around and it's not annoying i'm sure there are times where it's just like oh i don't want to film today but like most of the time it's great fun and and i kind of knew before we even started doing this show that i didn't have to worry about like our fights and our drama being on the show because we don't really fight that often and so it's not like fueled by like oh like they're breaking up and they're doing this and it's it's nice and it's fun and it's nice to know that people actually just like watching stuff that doesn't have to be fueled by drama the reason most reality television is fueled with drama is because the early successful shows in the UK at least were all dramatic so everyone jumps on the bandwagon and makes dramatic shows I think part of the reason Vogue and I liked

the idea of working together on this and making a show was to see if we could break that a bit and you know lead a show uh that's fueled almost entirely by by comedy you know I think initially with the producers they were always saying oh but you know it needs to be dramatic or if you have, we need to include it. And it's just like we don't see the point in that. Also, do you think because presumably both of you have been written about by the tabloids quite a lot before, do you think taking control of what you put out there via social media and via your shows, there's something quite therapeutic about that, like sort of reclaiming control of the narratives I think it's definitely quite nice to be able to show the person that you actually are and what you're actually like in real life because people have a perception of you that's not always true and it's nice to just come across as yourself and then people can either decide to

like you or hate you or whatever um but it is it is nice and it's important but at the same time only only recently i'm going to say this i actually don't really care what people think of me anymore and i used to right there i used to really care it used to really bother me and it's only in the last i don't know maybe since i had theodore that i was like you know what i'm just happy like my life is good i'm happy with the person i am i know i'm a nice person my family are great my friends are great they think i'm great my husband is great um so that's all that's really important to me so what anyone else thinks or says about me isn't isn't as important as it used to be so why do you think people enjoy watching the show i think it's i think it's very easy to relate to i think a lot of people associate associate starting a new family with struggle, you know,

and I think we do quite a nice job of balancing it. Not to say that we're brilliant. Not last night. Yeah, he can be tricky. We did not sleep much last night. No, he can be tricky. But, you know, it's part of being a parent. I think Vogue and I are both kind of, you know, go get them type people and we will do everything we can. We don't want to sacrifice being as busy as we can be. We work very hard. And in doing so, we try and have a nice time

and develop as a family. And I think our show is just a nice, easy viewing, humorous kind of nod to early family life. I think, you know, I think it would be very easy to kind of, you know, almost demonize having your first child and say, you know, how hard it is and stuff. And we, we like to kind of navigate it together and make it fun. Did you ever watch Made in Chelsea?

No, I'd seen a few episodes. So I wouldn't even say full episodes. I just never, I never got into Terry and I never got into Made in Chelsea. I've always loved the Kardashians. So that was kind of the one I always watched. But her takes up her but I had but I had seen like a couple of episodes and this I got tweeted

a screen grab of these tweets that I'd said about Spencer not being very nice and I was like oh my god I actually totally forgot saying it

I remember I watched a bit and I was like who is this moron and I just thought he was like obviously I thought he was the most horrible person in the world for the short amount of

time I'd seen it. And I made sure to tweet about it. I love a challenge. So obviously, I knew that. No, I'm just joking. Just going back to that quickly, Spencer, on the show, you were very much portrayed as the villain. Yeah.

Did you play up to that when you were on that show? Absolutely. I'm not just saying it to kind of let me off my bad behavior. But of course, that show absolutely i'm not just saying it to kind of you know let me off my bad behavior but of course you know that show is fueled by by drama you know without drama the show dies there is no show without the drama uh and that's just the way that show is so obviously uh there are times when you you know pour yourself as fuel onto a fire for the drama because that's the job that we were being paid to do you know it's not it's not a fly on the wall reality show whereby they follow you around and you know they see the real you it's a dramatized version of events that you know may or may not have happened you know if the camera crew

wasn't there uh Maiden Chelsea is quite real and accurate I suppose but ultimately it's been running so long with so much cast that, you know, there has to be someone puppeting the scenario. It doesn't just happen. So, of course, I kind of lent myself to the darker role, wore black all the time, had a bit more fun with people than I would do ordinarily. I don't actually like confrontation. My wife will tell you that, you know, anyone kind of confronts me. I won't shy away from it, but I won't get involved in it. You know, I'm always the'm always the kind of you know just leave it it's fine if it's not going to bother you in a week or it's not going to bother you in 10 days why rise to it now just just let it go uh which obviously you know if that were the case on Made in Chelsea I'd be a pretty uninteresting character

uh so yeah in the back of my mind though is how can I make this show as dramatic as possible how can I be love and hate in reality television is exactly the same especially if you're in a big cast you know being loved is exactly the same as being hated people are watching the show and that's what was important to me and a few people who really understood the genre was how do we get the most views possible and how do we get recommissioned and that was in my mind a lot have you seen any of the episodes uh in particular where you were like have you re-watched them now the ones that you were complaining about on twitter perhaps what did you say what were your tweets something awful rightly so as well i was watching

there was like a compilation i think of him dumping people i watched that on youtube and i was like oh my i felt after it i was, I was like, you're actually horrible. You're a really horrible person. As long as it doesn't happen to you. And this was only like about a year ago. And I was like, I couldn't help it. I was like, oh God, gross. Like, get away from me.

You're horrible. She was very friendly when we first met. So I don't know where all of this came from. I hadn't watched it when we first met. But no, good TV, I suppose. Yeah. I always am a little wary when we go down by the river bafta winning show thanks you don't still watch it now do you i i actually i'm not just saying

this to sound cool i realize people probably think this isn't true but you know it is i i never watched it uh after series one i think right at the very start it was really exciting i remember my first ever scene in the land rover with hugo driving down the king start, it was really exciting. I remember my first ever scene in the Land Rover with Hugo driving down the King's Road, being really kind of worried about what I was saying and how I'd be perceived. And obviously that went away pretty quickly for me because I just, you know, had to fuel the show. And it was really fun at that point

because you'd go into a scene and you would have no idea what was happening in the scene or you'd genuinely wear your heart on your sleeve and it would be exciting, you know, and it became, you know, a bit more produced over time and, you know, you had less control in what was actually happening. And yeah, for me anyway,

it lost its original kind of flair and just became a kind of widely trodden market, which for me is never exciting. I actually agree. I much preferred the show when you were on it. When I was nice in series one and two. There was a bit of a turn in series three. I wonder what that was.

So presumably you don't have any of that on your show now. No, now it's a very accurate representation. I mean, we're probably amplified with the humour. I'd say Made in Chelsea is kind of babyish in that sense. It's a childish show. We don't have make-ups and break-ups. We just don't have that. If you're an adult who takes Made in Chelsea

seriously, I suggest you take a look at yourself. Jamie Lang is probably too old for that make-up and break-up stuff. Yeah, Jamie Lang

being 31 in November is too old for the show. We have spoken to him about it. I did actually speak to one of our producers today

about seeing if he can jump ship onto our show were we to do a third one. Better suited to it. It's easier to be nice on our show. There's no drama. He makes an appearance, doesn't he? Because he officiates your ceremony at the end of the show.

He does. Judge Rinder officiated. Judge Rinder wasn't available, so Jamie was the next best thing. We got a lookalike. Going back to the things you decide to share, and obviously you guys share photos of Theodore on social media, but you also put him on a show.

So that's sort of amplified 10 times. So how do you respond to people who may criticise that exposure? We don't care what you think. Yeah, to be honest exposure we don't care what you think yeah to be honest we don't care what you think and also and also i actually haven't been criticized for it uh i actually haven't been criticized either and i think like when i post theater on my social media and stuff i'm not gonna post them in like naked i'm not gonna post them having an absolute meltdown like i post funny nice heartwarming things that he's not going to be embarrassed about

if he ever looks back at it. He's a catalyst for likes as well, let's be honest. You post him, you get likes. Oh my God, yeah. Great for your engagement. You're as good for engagement. If I post a picture of me,

him and Winston. If I post a picture of me, no one cares. Post a picture of me in Theodore, everyone loves it. So come on, let's be honest. Have you ever shared anything

on the show or on social media that you have regretted sharing about theodora about each other i wrote a whole book that i regret writing but but anyway uh no i actually i actually don't think i i do regret anything that we've shared on tv or social media um i think we are like it's not like you come they come in and they take every single part of our lives like we're very careful we know what we're doing

each day and like they can't just come and film us when we're sitting doing nothing for the day because that's boring for them it's boring for the viewers it's boring for us

they did genuinely wake me up once it was weird yeah but like they come and film like things where we're actually doing something during the day

because it makes it more fun to watch it's a bit easier I guess than with a show like Love Island for example example, where it's just 24 hours surveillance, you know, because you presumably know a few days ahead of time when they're going to come film. Yeah, well, I think any show like Love Island or The Jungle, for example, you kind of go in with a game plan. You'd be dumb not to, you know. So in the back of your mind always is how do I come across in a way that people will

like me you know and that's a very juvenile but important way of thinking you know back when the idea of fame was attractive we're all young you know like when you're a teenager being on television and being recognized as cool you know when you're a family and you've got a son you care less about it becomes less important it's more the work. So that's why typically you get younger people doing those shows. But for us, it's really, there is no game plan for me and Vogue. You know, we, sorry for Vogue and I, we try and just be as real as we can be. And we don't really bicker on the show, but you do get, you know, Vogue pulls my leg all the time. And if I say something ludicrous, it puts me down and that's uh arguably the most very irish thing it's

arguably it's arguably it's arguably the uh the reason why people like the show so much is because somebody finally puts me in my place speaking of that there's um i think when you guys first got together there was a lot of the woman who tamed spencer matthews kind of headlines she loves it when people say i don't love it at all. So I want to ask you about this, because I think that's quite a sexist thing. I really liked your way of that question, by the way. I don't think that's a label that anyone, I don't think anyone would say that about, you know, if it was reversed.

Yeah, exactly. No one would say that about me. And like, the thing about it is, he was young anyway at the time, so who cares if whatever way he acted when he was younger. Like, no one knows the way I acted when I was younger. I do. I tamed her.

You never hear it, though. It's like, it really annoys me because it's very stereotypical. It's like the wild man and the, you know, domestic goddess, servile woman. She is the one who made him pure. It's like, it's so archaic and weird. It's so annoying. I hate that question.

It's an essential part of growing up, isn't it? And, you know, let's be honest. And women can be... Wild and unruly. Yeah, exactly. Maybe I was and nobody knows about it, which I'm glad about. Again, I do.

I hold the cards here. Is it something that you get asked about a lot? Not really. I mean, look, I always... It's very strange how my how things panned out for me I always thought in the back of my mind uh that one day I would be sober and I always thought in the back of my mind that what that when I was when I was 30 I'd like to be married with a kid I always just had that but it wouldn't have mattered at all you know had I gone

to 33 35 40 you know it it's just something that I had in my mind and Vogue and I met and it just felt extremely like correct you know Vogue and I neither of us were looking for a partner uh neither of us were looking to settle down it just kind of made sense and at the time and and you know it was very organic and still feels that way you know we we are still into each other I think we do you like me okay good uh yeah we we love each other very much I'd say we're at 90% today I'm a bit annoyed from yeah yeah no she's annoyed with me today but nine nine I still got 90% I mean that's more than most married couples can hope for at the end of year three isn't it uh yeah so I don't know it's every everything about us just feels right to me anyway acas powers the world's best podcasts here's a show that we recommend

i'm jesse kirkshank and on my podcast, Phone a Friend, I break down the biggest stories in pop culture. But when I have questions, I get to phone a friend. I phone my old friend, Dan Levy. You will not die hosting the Hills after show. I get thirsty for the hot wiggle. I didn't even know a thirsty man until there was all these headlines. And I get schooled by a tween.

Facebook is like a no. that's what my grandma's on thank god phone a friend with jesse crookshank is not available on facebook it's out now wherever you get your podcasts a cast helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com Something you have spoken about before, Vogue, is having anxiety and managing that. So I wonder if when you had Theodore, were you worried about postpartum depression? No, because I think anxiety is very different to depression. I've never really been a depressive person. I people go through their ups and downs or something or whatever but

I've just always had quite bad anxiety and it just it flares up now and again and I did worry that it would get worse and I'd say on and off it's been quite bad since theodore because you've got that extra worry and you're worrying about more things and there's something more important. So like with anxiety, you can get like thoughts that it's like, you're just like, oh God, you just think the worst of something is going to happen in a situation. So I'd say that gets to me.

But no, I was never worried about postpartum depression, but I watched a show actually on Channel 4. I don't know if you saw it about postpartum depression and it was just... With Louis Theroux. Oh my God, it was awful. Like I just couldn't believe how bad it can get for some people because you think about people being depressed and it's like oh well

maybe after the baby comes and everything settles down then it gets better but like for some women it just it that really opened my eyes to it and made me realize how bad it actually was and how bad it can actually get for people so I think even for me having another baby even though I've never suffered from it watching that show like you would want to make sure to be careful and just to look out for signs because your hormones are all over the place once you've had a baby before during after for a while all over the place so you're not going to be yourself for a little while anyway and then when you have a new baby that comes into your life your whole life has changed and gotta love them hormones yeah that's kind of crazy as well so i think it is it's an important one to look out for but luckily and then when you have a new baby that comes into your life, your whole life is changed. Gotta love them hormones.

That's kind of crazy as well. So I think it's an important one to look out for but luckily, no, I didn't have it. Do you think being in the public eye has helped your mental health or do you think there are times when it has actually compromised it? I'd say it definitely compromised my anxiety, particularly when I really cared about what people thought.

And people would send me messages and things would just get to you and then I'd feel anxious about certain things. But now it kind of doesn't get to me like that anymore. But I think for anyone's mental health, even just social media isn't a good thing because you're comparing your lives to other people on Instagram. And like you compare everything. And even for me, I do um with like other people I'm like oh god they've just got all their crap together and la la la and you just can't help it but I always just try and remember that's like the best part of someone's day and that's why I want people to remember about my Instagram I'm not putting up like really awful stuff when I'm

feeling terrible not all the time I try to be as honest as I can but like I also don't want to burden followers with like relentless negativity every day so I don't I don't understand the whole social media thing I myself I would never look at somebody else's page and compare myself to them like if I look at a picture of Brad Pitt I'm not going to be like why am I not Brad Pitt what is it that you don't I'm way better than what is it that you don't like about social media if it isn't about... Oh my God. How much time do we have? I would never feel kind of not as good as someone else.

It's just not in my nature. I wouldn't ever look at somebody else and go, oh God, I wish I was like them. I would never ever think that. So it's just not in my DNA to think that. Spencer is one of the rare breeds of people who's really like, and it's a great way to be, he's really like happy within himself. But like I know I'm not the best looking guy in the world. I know that. And I can see breeds of people who's really like, and it's a great way to be, he's really happy within himself. But I know I'm not the best looking guy in the world.

I know that. And I can see a guy and I can be like, oh, wow, he's incredible looking. But I wouldn't be like, oh, how do I look like that? I'm just extremely comfortable with who I am. I think it's different for girls as well. Yeah, I think it is a bit. Girls are harder on themselves. Especially with all, I mean, body shaming online.

That drives me a bit mad. But not because I care about what people say. It's because like, it just puts out a bad image for everybody else looking at that kind of thing as well. To answer your question about why I don't like social media, I'll make it very quick. Because my wife gets very bored of me ranting about social media. But it's the level of accessibility that people have. I think it's ludicrous. I don't believe that every voice deserves to be heard.

I don't get it. have i think it's ludicrous i don't believe that every voice deserves to be heard i don't i don't i don't get it uh i think back in the day like to be a tv presenter you had to break through barriers you had to be you know you had to have talent you had to be someone and then people listen to you and you have a voice now it's like it's so muddled the line is so blurred that you know people who really know about something can be talking about it and then people who have no idea what they're talking about are involved in the same forum. And it just blasts out into these

ludicrous conversations between millions of people, some of whom know what they're talking about, some of whom don't. And it's jargon and it's pointless. If you go online because you want information, you Google something, you get the information, that's great.

If you go online to argue a point that you may not even know anything about, it seems to me to be just vacuous and often stupid how do you feel about social media influencers people who haven't necessarily been on tv i feel i haven't been i think are you taking my question i literally think he's going to answer it in a really negative way no i'm not no i'm not no i'm not, I'm not. I was going to say, an influencer like my wife, and I'm not just being biased about my wife, she is a fantastic influencer. She will not post about a product that she doesn't genuinely believe in.

So you know when you look at a post from my wife that she backs the product, not because she's being paid, in many instances, of course she's being paid, but she would only take the job if it makes sense to her to do it it's not a monetary thing per se whereas like i do not understand why anyone would ever listen like would ever listen to don't name names you know gareth from from from from bath you know he's got 3 000 followers with public figure under his name you know who's a bit out of shape but promoting shirts online so you know buy the shirt

who cares what that guy thinks i think though i think like i know that some influencers are really dishonest and i do know that because i i met i met a girl the other day and she was doing a post like literally doing the post she's like oh it's actually disgusting and i was i felt like saying but why are you promoting it then why promote something that you don't like because that's like false advertising for people who follow you, who are following you because they trust you and they trust what you're using,

what you're saying about that product is true. But I just think it can be really good because it is a way of shopping. Like I follow loads of people and I see them wearing certain clothes and I'm like, oh, I want that. And that's how I kind of do my online shopping. I see people wearing it and I see what it's like.

And the people that I follow, I feel are honest as well. So that way it's how i kind of do my online shopping i see people wearing it and i see what it's like and the people that i follow i feel are honest as well so uh so that way it's a good way of advertising because it's nice to see other like i don't really go to the shops anymore i don't have time i rather do my shopping and stuff online and i rather like with beauty people like alex steiner you know you can trust someone like her because she lives and breathes all things beauty and like if if she likes a product she'll talk about it if she doesn't she just won't talk about it so you know when she's saying something about a product that's good because there's a monetary value on the job that you're doing you don't know if it's honest or not anymore people will do anything for money that's always been the case and like the larger the sum the more you'll do you know i would do a weird job for a big sum

of money why not you know like it pays the bills. So it's kind of with the influencer thing, you kind of know a lot of the time that what people are pushing isn't a great product. And that for me, you know, I don't know. Back in the day, you'd open GQ, you know, and Leo DiCaprio would be stood there wearing a cool pair of sunglasses

and you go, oh, I want those, you know. And it's kind of like, or you just see a pap shot of someone in the street and you go, oh, they look cool. Like maybe I'll buy that jacket and they don't know they're being papped. So they're influencing you without being paid and that kind of, you know, but again, I think, I think there's, there's pros and cons, obviously. Let's move on to our lessons in love segment. So this is the part of the podcast where I ask each guest to share something they've learned from their dating and relationship experiences.

It can be small or large. It can be very personal or it can be not that personal. It is totally up to you. Vogue, would you like to start? Sure. I would say that if you are kind of not failing in love, but if you keep going through relationships and you're wondering, why does this keep happening to me? I feel like I'm going to the same place with another person. And I found out that I had like a pattern that I was going for and I found out what that pattern was and then I just cut it off

and I stopped going for guys with that pattern and then I was delighted with myself being single and then I met Spencer who was completely different to all those other guys who were in that pattern that I've now boxed away. What was different about Spencer? He had his stuff together more and he didn't need me to help him with anything.

I didn't have to put myself second. He's really supportive. It was just very different. And easy. And easy. Spencer, what is your lesson from loving relationships? It's hard for me to say really really i've never taken any relationship seriously until this one i've i'd never given any thought to getting married ever prior to meeting vogue you know with all of and i don't want to put my exes

all together but i'd never i always was just you know young and having fun with them you know and we all are kind of living our i was about to say best life low that's the second thing oh my god go get them yeah when did I say that I didn't I didn't say it just for the record I didn't say that but that's what I mean anyway uh but yeah I was always just having fun and you know out and about working doing whatever you know but but you know when I met Vogue is when uh you know something went off in my mind and I became a far more serious person. She makes me a much better version of myself. I don't know. I'm just rambling. My, my lesson, I suppose, take relationships, take, take the relationship seriously unless you're, unless

you're willing to, unless you're willing to be serious, you know, uh, that's a good lesson. Yeah. Uh, always know where you stand. I know, I know, know uh that's a good lesson yeah uh always know where you stand and i know uh compromise is a good thing not that i make huge sacrifices for vogue but uh don't try and change the person that you're with that's a good one i feel i feel that a lot of people always try and change who they're with obviously if you're like some serial cheat then try and change the person but i mean i mean i mean with like little things like if a little if something small niggles you about your partner unless it's life like and it don't iron out just leave it you know like people people are different you know some things that vogue

does from time to time irritate me but i've just i've learned to live with it a lot of things i do irritate her okay babe yeah and she and she's she's learned to live with it like you kind of compromise to the point where you know to give you a small example like vogue vogue's extremely organized like hyper organized to the point where everyone else looks disorganized but it's a good thing so she'll get back from like a long day and then reorganize the furniture and then go outside and reorganize outside that's a bad example I will go away on holidays. I'll come home and as soon as I get home,

I'll unpack my suitcase. No, Vogue and I are going away on the 10th of December. She's packed her bag. That's not fair. Okay, okay,

I'm going to explain that. it's October. Yes, it's October, but let me explain this. Tell me if you think I'm right. So, the next sun holiday I go on

is the 10th of December. I pack away my summer wardrobe into suction bags and put them away, not to be seen again until next summer. Something that normal people do. So that I don't have room for everything. So then instead of having to pull out all the suction bags and go through my summer clothes again,

I've put away a little selection of clothes that I want to take away on holidays with me. So I never have to see those suction bags again until next year. I respect that. It's terribly organized. Very organized. But basically i'm disorganized for not living like that so i'm not saying you are but you have room for all your clothes your wardrobe i've got too many clothes yeah so now so now you know that's something with vogue that i could have easily tried to change but i just don't bother like it used to i used to see her doing it i used to see

her doing it and i used to be like what is going on like you know and it used to be i used to see her doing it. I used to see her doing it and I used to be like, what is going on? I used to just be like, I don't understand why she can't just pack a bag the night before, like me. But I just leave it. I'm going to Dublin next week and I haven't packed my bag. That's unbelievable. And I'm going for a whole week.

Mine or Theodore's, not packed. So my point is, I guess, just live your own lives and it's great if. So it's just, yeah, it's, no, so my point is, I guess, just, you know, live your own lives. And it's great if you can, you know, live it together and be wildly in love and best mates like we are. But, you know,

Vogue will always be a certain way and I will always be a certain way. And, you know, you need to coexist and not try and make your wife or husband the same as you. I think that's a lovely note to end on, Spencer. Gracias. That's all we have time note to end on, Spencer. Gracias.

That's all we have time for this week on Millennial Love. Follow Independent Lifestyle on social media to keep up to date with what's coming up on the show. And if you're a new listener, remember to subscribe to this series on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Acast, or wherever you listen. Also, leave us a rating and comment with your thoughts on our conversation today. Until next time, thanks a lot for listening. Goodbye. Not one person was stressing. Holla differently this year with DoorDash. Don't want to holla do the most? Holla don't. More festive, less frantic. Get deals for every occasion with DoorDash.