Love Lives - Victoria Pendleton and Sophie Everard on how to deal with a break up

Episode Date: December 13, 2019

This week Olivia is joined by Olympic cycling hero Victoria Pendleton and fitness entrepreneur Sophie Everard to discuss break ups. What's the best way to get through them? And what are the dos and don'ts of getting over someone?After Victoria's divorce the pair took a surfing trip to Costa Rica. Is there really value in 'finding yourself' abroad, or is it just something that people think they need to do?Plus, Victoria explains why her lesson in love is not to give too much if you don't get it in return.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/millenniallove. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hello and welcome to Millennial Love, a podcast from The Independent focusing on everything to do with sexuality, relationships, identity and more. We touch on a wide variety of topics, ranging from how to have feminist sex to how dating has changed in the post-MeToo era. I'm your host Olivia Petter and today on the program I'm joined by Olympic champion Victoria Pendleton and fitness entrepreneur Sophie Everard to discuss breakups. Enjoy the show. Sophie and Victoria first met in 2011. But am I right in thinking that you guys became close friends again shortly before you went to Costa Rica together?

Yeah, so we actually met when I was working at Oakley, managing PR. Victoria was our main face at that time on the female side and actually across probably men and women. So after the Olympics and such, I then left Oakley and Victoria, I would say had time out, but she didn't. You went off to Strictly, didn't you? And then became a champion horse racer and then decided sort of last minute to join me on a surf ship to Costa Rica. And yeah, that's when things sort of really kicked off again between us. So today we are here to discuss how to get over a breakup.

So Victoria, after you returned from Everest last May, you announced that you were getting a divorce from your partner. And I believe you went to Costa Rica in the months after that. Why did you decide to go to Costa Rica at that time well you know the divorce had been going through processing for you know years in fact beforehand but I'd just been keeping it on the on the quiet really because I didn't really need any additional pressure and stress with all the Everest preparations and in terms of people knowing about it so I got back and I suffered from hypoxia at high altitude,

which is one of the reasons I didn't complete the climb of Everest, which is a swelling on the brain due to the lack of oxygen. And one of the knock-on effects can be that your mental health is negatively impacted in terms of post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety, depression. But that was twinned with the fact that I thought I'd had everything to do with my divorce in a box and sorted. I was like, yep, got this up. And I came back and kind of came back to reality quite literally. And it shook me up a lot. Like it was, it was, you know, very sort of difficult time of uncertainty. And for me for me the idea of I'm not going to say

escaping and running away but just putting myself in a different environment was something I felt I really needed to do and I had such a positive experience about Costa Rica from the time I'd spent there with Mad to Live and Sophie and I love the place and the simplicity of life as well you know you're living in the jungle with very basic living conditions. You're eating fresh local food and you're getting out on the ocean every day. And I thought, you know, I need some kind of routine, but not my usual routine.

A routine that makes me feel a little bit more, I don't know, I don't know, energised in some way, not the norm. Do you, Sophie, on your retreats, so it is all women, isn't it? Yes, correct. Do you get a lot um sophie on your retreat so it is all women isn't it do you get a lot of women coming on your retreats who are looking for respite from a breakup my ops manager and i actually sort of say to each other if we had a pound for every time we had a lady come on our retreats who's going through a breakup or considering it would be millionaires. But yes, that's correct. We do seem to attract a lot of girls and women who are perhaps going through a breakup, considering it, considering a life change in general with regards to career, work, love and life. And I think once

they they're seeking solace in some kind of way and they come to the retreats and there's a couple of factors which seem to contribute to a healing process if we're talking about the breakup of a relationship so for one when you're doing sports like we do on the retreat such as surfing climbing hurling yourself off a cliff into the water um everything is stripped back and you're truly living in that moment and you don't actually have time to stress and worry about other things that going on in your life so the anxiety and stresses of other situations literally sort of like wash away because you're focused on the next wave you're focused on the next hole climbing um and indeed and just having a good time um Secondly I think being within the environment of

all women it's it's a supportive network that often we kind of lack in our day-to-day lives and when you're sort of put into that situation and we can talk so openly as well in that environment and often it's very cathartic and we need to talk and that helps us get through a breakup or indeed any situation that might be causing stress or anxiety. I truly believe talking, crying with friends, getting things off your chest is really beneficial in that respect. And then equally, the kind of sports we're doing really teach you a lot about your own tenacity and resilience and what you're really capable of and that you're often stronger than you thought you were physically and then mentally because you're constantly being knocked down by waves falling off things maybe taking tumbles but you get up again you get up again you get up again and that's sort of teaching you you

do have the resilience to pick yourself up and keep going. And I think it's amazing when I see that overlap into our guests' lives or my friends' lives when they sort of come away from the retreats. And I had this one guest who had this sort of like amazing story. She was very tentative about coming. She'd never done anything like it before, which is almost music to my ears. If someone says to me, I've never done anything like this before, I'm like, perfect. Come my way. But yeah, she said, you know, she was filled with a lot of trepidation, some fear about coming and also was going through some things in life.

And watching her transformation during the week was amazing. Watching her in the water and doing all the other sports bonding with the other women on the retreat and she left and sort of told me that she'd come to the retreat fearful but then left fearless and that's given her this new sort of approach um going into life after that it's funny isn't it because people always make fun of that cliche of going and traveling and finding yourself but i think there is definitely truth in that, isn't there? Yeah. There's that whole eat, pray, love narrative that I think is something that is really only attached to women. Yeah. Victoria, did you know anyone else on the retreat when you went?

No, that's it. I mean, being with total strangers, I think that's one of the beautiful things about it. You go to the retreat and you know that everyone that's signed up is signed up for the same reasons. You know, they want to do something a little bit different. They want to be outside their comfort zone. They want a new experience in their life. And the group that we actually met in Costa Rica, we actually organized a reunion in Portugal and went to another retreat together. Everyone got on really well. And Sophie was mentioning just then, when you are struggling with a situation in your life and you're with a group of women who don't know you,

they don't really know you in a way that they don't know your background. And they're just there for you in that moment to give you the support that they have through their own experiences. And everyone was supporting one another.'s a really a really lovely place to be there's no there can't really be any judgment because people don't really know you well enough to to kind of have history so it is a really you know really nice sort of safe space to be

in many ways and I you know going by myself into that environment, I mean, I was a little bit, I must admit, I was even thinking, oh, my gosh, I was a bit nervous about it. Had you surfed before? I'd done like an occasional day here or there. But all the other outdoor activities, outdoor pursuits, I live for that stuff. And I've been an adventure scout and all sorts growing up. So I love that. You still are. I am still an adventure scout and all sorts growing up. So I love that. You still are. I am still an adventure scout at heart.

But the getting out of the routine, as you say, not getting on the tube every day, doing the same thing, breaking out of routine and being in a different environment with different people, trying new things. You're outside of your usual thought patterns and routines as well. So breaking free from that. And the fact that Sophie mentioned a lot of the sports you do are quite extreme if you want to use that word and when you're in that extreme space there's there's a quietness of your mental process in in many ways and that's one of the reasons I went surfing when you're paddling for a wave that looks like it's going to ditch you and you really want

to get over it and you are not thinking about anything else you're not thinking about anything else. You're not thinking about how you feel. You're like, I do not want to get hurt right now. And that aspect of it is almost like mindfulness. There's only one thing you're thinking about. It's almost survival. And I think that is underrated in terms of getting yourself out of a difficult time or a repetitive and negative thought process caused by kind of emotional situation that's not quite the way you'd like it or bad relationships and those kind of things like being in that space in that quiet space under pressure in some ways almost forces your way out

of it if you're in the comfort of everyday life and these thoughts are going round and round and round and tormenting you it's almost like you need to break free from that. And I think going away and doing something out of the ordinary, challenging, it's easier to physically challenge yourself and as a result, have a mental change than to mentally challenge yourself to have a mental change, if you know what I mean. I think when you're struggling to get your head around something, it's very easy to look at yourself and lay the blame 100% on you and you're like, it must be me. There's something wrong with me.

Why don't they love me? Why don't they want me? And that doesn't just disappear. And everyone's like, just be patient, be patient. I'm horribly impatient. So doing something, I feel, is a really positive way to approach that it's not like if i you know it's like oh i'm gonna try not to think about it that way well yeah it's like don't think about that elephant you know like pink elephant it's it's difficult it's

like so doing i think stuff and with the wave project getting out on the ocean and the healing um power of the ocean surf therapy is something that I have personally experienced in my life taking myself away and I remember having one moment after being in Costa Rica for a week when I when I went when I was feeling at my worst I'd been very unwell and it was we I'd got there for for the sort of dawn And it was, I'd got there for sort of dawn and there was a beautiful sunrise and you're sat on the ocean looking back at the jungle and suddenly you're like, do you know what, it's going to be okay. It was like a moment. You're floating on the ocean, you're tired, you're physically tired.

It's a beautiful day, you're in a beautiful environment and you think to yourself, it's going to pass, it's going to be okay. Because it does. This is the thing, everyone always says to you, time is the best healer and it's the most annoying phrase. And it's so true and you can get so caught up in thinking things will never be okay. And I always say to friends of mine when they're devastated

or indeed myself and you sort of feel like you can't see through the dark and you'll never feel okay again but actually you will because you've got through things like this before and you will and yeah time is a healer but um those kind of moments like when you're out in the water um Victoria sort of mentioned being in that in that moment and I think we haven't even touched upon you know the healing elements of being out in nature and how important that is for our well-being and you don't have to be in a jungle in Costa Rica to access that I always say this to people you can go for a walk around a beautiful park in London we have so many amazing parks I love to hop on my bike and head out to Epping Forest and you feel like you're in Narnia

and you've left Victoria Park 15 minutes behind you. But it's nourishing and, you know, the benefits of it are listed multiple times. And Victoria and I have cried laughing. I can't even tell you how many times surfing and adventuring and falling off things, drinking margaritas late at night, pulling gravel out of each other's butts. It happens a lot. It is true. It's true. It's true. It is true.

And that can be a distraction in many ways, a distraction and a healing process. That quality time spent with your girlfriends, with the women in your life that support you and kind of are there for you, and just doing stuff, having fun. It's, I don't know, it's underrated. What do you make of the sort of, not excuse,

but the cliched thing of, oh, well, if you want to get over someone, get under someone else, move on super quickly. I mean to me I feel like that is yeah sometimes helpful but also like it depends on the relationship before and it depends on how it ended how you're able to move on that quickly everybody wants to feel desirable yeah and I think I think if you if you've come out of a difficult situation, it's very easy to fall into the wrong next situation. I've done it. I've had a horrible time. And I spoke to someone about I was in a bad place.

I spoke to counsellors and all sorts about it. And I felt very guilty about getting her in an obviously terribly bad, a bad choice of horrible situation. And they were like, you were in a, you were in need of some love and attention and you look for it in the wrong place. You won't be the first and you won't be the last to do it, but do know that it's a perfectly normal human response,

but just don't beat yourself up about it because it happens it just happens and everyone wants to everyone does want to feel you know you fall out of a situation of love and you want you wonder whether you're ever going to feel it again or someone's going to ever want you again because you feel you lose all your confidence in yourself and if someone comes along and offers you that feeling it's very hard to resist yeah and you probably will inevitably make the wrong decision because your judgment is sort of altered because you've just come out yeah i've got it got described to me which is a is an analogy i always it's like being in the sahara desert and someone offering you a bucket of water and you like you drink it

but you don't check if it's clean or not whether it it's like, and when I mean clean, I just mean it's not going to make you ill. And often it does. It does make you ill. But, you know, it's kind of, you don't, you drink it. Yeah. And that's it. It's so normal, though. And I think what I've learned is,

so when you sort of get to a point, you've had a few relationships, you've been through a few flings, you've done that, you've kind of, what's that expression? Got the T-shirt t-shirt do you know what I mean but um I then sort of decided to be a bit more self-analytical and I knew that I wanted something more meaningful and it kind of depends where you're at in your life doesn't it like sometimes you do just want to date um you want to be single or maybe you are looking for something more serious.

And I chose to be a bit more self-analytical after a horrendous breakup last year. And that was incredibly rewarding to me. And I would look at, say, if I was looking for the quick fix, the drink in the desert. Is this going to make me feel good? Not just in that respect but afterwards what will my well-being be like afterwards because that was important to me after being left feeling very raw after a breakup and I just was like I don't want to feel that way I don't want to feel raw and terrible um obviously life is a wild ride and sometimes you are going to feel terrible, but that's part of it.

But it's within my power to make the decisions that will potentially make me feel good. And I sort of realized that. And actually, I don't think it is out of your control when you're like, oh, you're just waiting for the next person or waiting for Prince Charming. I think that's a fallacy. You can do things. It's for yourself. It's for your. It's for your enjoyment and passion and love in life as well. So I decided to be stricter with myself.

I didn't want to put myself out there into situations which would hurt me because that wasn't good for me after being, yeah, not feeling great last year. So kind of changed the way I make decisions and sort of how I treat myself and that really did me a lot of good after I did that and how long do you think it took for you to get to a point where you felt okay I've got a I've got a better hold of this situation now I'm not going to make the same mistakes well Victoria probably laugh at this I mean I made after my last serious relationship I won't call them mistakes because I think it's easy to call a relationship a mistake, but actually there'll have been good moments in all of them.

Even if you're left crying on the floor afterwards, you'll have had some happiness and some enjoyment and pleasure in those relationships. And also maybe you'll have taken away something you've learned. Often we don't, but then again, I decided to be like, what have I learned here? What do I want? What am I looking for in a partner? So after I felt horrendous, I sort of, that was like the straw that broke the camel's back. I wanted to break the pattern. I felt like I was in a pattern that I wanted to break. And then I

sort of squirreled myself away in this flat of my friends in East London. It was like truly cat lady territory. She had a beautiful cat. The house was like something out of Sabrina the Teenage Witch, very 19th century, candles and smudge sticks everywhere. Vicky and I love that. And it gave me the time to recover. But it did take me a while because I was feeling horrendous. And as I said, I was sort of in this pattern of not of choosing partners who didn't make me feel great. And then I thought, no, I'm going to break this pattern. What's important to me in a man, what's important to me in a partner. And I need to be honest with myself. That was a massive thing. Um, so it took, you know, you could say a few years of breaking the

pattern, but then once I sort of hit that almost rock bottom the moment the straw broke the camel's back it took me a couple of months and then the cherry on top of the process where I really felt healed and strong again was going surfing so I took time for myself three weeks away doing the thing that makes me feel best that sort of restores my powers and this feels like it comes back to me so from going from a place feeling very weak and low and sad, I went and did what makes me smile the most and enjoyed some sunrise surfs, hung out with friends, adventured on motorbikes. Everyone's got their own poison. That's the poison for me that makes me smile and feel strong and great. And yeah, I felt like I completely turned a new leaf

and then have now got a very lovely partner. And was that the same for you, Victoria, when you got back from Costa Rica? Did you sort of feel, like, restored? I think, yeah, I think when you take time out to look after yourself and it's very, everyone, you know, there's so many clichés. When you're going through a bad time, whether that's a relationship or that's a struggle with mental health or maybe it's very, everyone, you know, there's so many cliches. When you're going through a bad time, whether that's a relationship or that's a struggle with mental health or maybe it's both probably combined,

they're interlinked, aren't they? Be patient, love yourself, look after yourself. Well, me loving and looking after myself is going out and having an adventure somewhere or riding a motorcycle or doing something. That is what it is. It's not sitting at home giving, you know, thinking. That's horrible.

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is something I'm incredibly grateful for. I feel very lucky to have someone like Sophie in my life. I know she's going to make me cry. You're going to make me cry. It's happening. You know what? She's very... Sophie is...

She's a very wise soul for someone so young and beautiful. And she kind of would be, like, very pragmatic about how you would approach a relationship. And not going in and sort of going in blind going in with almost like an idea of like you know this is what this is going to be to me and that I've put a limit on it and I'm kind of I'm going in with a with a game plan in some ways you know this isn't going to hurt me I'm not going to get drawn into this this is for me at this moment it might not last forever but you know like just being able to put boundaries on how much of yourself you're going to put in the situation.

Maybe you just want to, you know, maybe you just want to get a nice cheeky snog from a hot guy. And just feel for one moment like special and desirable. But that's it. And that's okay. You know? But that's it. And that's okay. Yeah.

You know? And I kind of think that it's so easy to sort of fall into something without really thinking about protecting your heart and yourself. But that doesn't mean you should not go, you know, have moments like that with people. You should, if you want, if it makes you feel good, as long as you know what makes you feel good and how it makes you feel good and what definitely is past that line cross that line and putting you in a dangerous territory I think that's something that you need to kind of be kind of you know

observe it with yourself and understand it not going blind in many ways it's different for everyone isn't it like everyone has their own what makes them feel good, what they're looking for. And after I sort of broke this kind of toxic pattern, it's because it was toxic. I felt terrible. And then last year was the worst I'd felt after this breakup. So I'm quite pragmatic. You're right in that respect. I was like, I like feeling happy.

I want to feel happy. I want nourishing. feeling happy i want to feel happy i want nourishing i want a nourishing relationship with a great man that i can respect admire have fun with adventure with um so why am i gonna settle yeah i will use that word not compromise not compromise or settle if you have if there's a warning flag about something that comes up don't ignore that trust your intuition it's all about trusting your intuition if you get that feeling that's telling you no there's something not right there's something not right even if you are just enjoying a fling i've learned that it's bad to ignore that feeling in your gut and in alternatively if you have a feeling in your gut that's telling you yes

yes this is amazing follow this with your heart. You need to go after that. And I think it can be so beneficial to your well-being if you do listen to that voice inside you. I feel like we've touched on so many important love lessons in there. But we actually have, we now have to go into our actual love lesson segment. So this is where I ask the guests to share something that they have learned about themselves or the choices that they've made in the past about dating and relationships uh or possibly about self-love um and share it with the group uh Victoria would you like to start

um I think probably one of the biggest like lessons in love has been um just to be you I think one of the hardest things and this is something I've learned growing up through just not just in relationships but genuinely trying to please other people like trying to be what someone else wants you to be and I have done this so many times and it's never worked out quite right for me. Thinking you know what somebody wants and trying to become that person rather than just being you. If someone doesn't love you for you, then they're not right. What kind of things do you think you might have changed about yourself in the past to try and please someone else? I think I would have been perhaps less generous in every aspect. generous with my, in every aspect, that's like emotionally, in terms of supporting somebody,

that's financially, in terms of how you treat them, how you give your time to them, just being super generous, like giving everything and never ever having anything in appreciation and return. And thinking that if you give more, then maybe they might start to reciprocate. And I think that's something that I've definitely fallen short of on more than one occasion. Do you think that's something that women do possibly more than men? I think maybe, potentially. I don't know. What do you think?

Just from the conversations I have with people on this podcast, it just seems like it's always the women who are the ones who say, I sacrifice everything to please my partner, heterosexual women who are with men. And, sacrifice everything to please my partner, heterosexual women who are with men. And, you know, I will do everything to make sure that they're happy. You know, my needs are just at the bottom of the pile. I'll be fine. Yeah, that's I think that's probably very close to the perhaps perhaps the thing, you know, trap I've fallen into on many occasion. And I think you'll never be happy unless you

are you. And if someone doesn't love you for who you are being nothing more than what stands before them then that's that's not okay you know it's got to be right it's got to be right what do you think your lesson is Sophie I think one of the most important lessons I learned was in this recent year and it was about sort of self-honesty obviously it's advisable to be honest with your partner. But I sort of shone that light within myself. And it was something that kept coming up. I was sort of writing in a journal last year quite a bit, trying to sort of make hay of what I was thinking.

And just it's cathartic, I think, as well, to get your thoughts out, whether that's talking with friends, with a friend, or writing it down. And something that kept coming up was be honest with yourself what it is you really want what you're looking for um and just having to express that and it can be quite difficult to be honest with yourself you might have a few um might be a bit tricky to confront that. And you might need to change the way you approach some things, which is what I did. Do you think friends helping you can help you come to that realization? You know, if a friend says to you,

you're being taken advantage of here. You're not being true to yourself. It's that classic, though, isn't it? People will tell you, oh, you know, don't do that, or he's this, or whatever. And it will only take the moment and it will only take the moment it will truly take the moment that you realize that and sort of the penny drops because it's so easy to just brush off what your friends say because it's like well they don't know this person like

i do they're just being super protective of me they're fiercely loyal which is great my friends talking about all the guys i dated the last few years. We knew he was wrong from the beginning. We knew. But it took getting to that point of feeling that terrible that I said to myself, no, I don't want to feel this way. I enjoy happiness in life and I want to seek that. So shining the light within myself, being brutally honest with myself, which then enabled me to be more honest with, say, a partner, really stood me in good stead

afterwards. And I've sort of maintained that approach since. And I really highly recommend that. That's all we have time for this week on Millennial Love. And in fact, this is the last episode of the series. Follow Independent Lifestyle on social media to keep up to date with what's happening with the show and when you can expect to hear more from us. If you're a new listener, remember to check out the previous episodes in the series and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Acast or wherever you listen. Also, leave us a rating and comment with your thoughts on what we've talked about

thanks a lot for listening, goodbye