Lovett or Leave It - 1812 It's Overture

Episode Date: July 6, 2018

Jon joins Jon Favreau and Dan Pfieffer in-studio to talk through the latest developments on immigration, SCOTUS, and the growing outrage of Democratic voters. Then Jon is joined by Tawny Newsome, Jose Antonio Vargas, and Molly Lambert to commiserate and discuss pre-existing conditions, "farm to fork" restaurants, the Olympics, and so much more. Happy 4th of July!

Hey, everybody. Welcome to Love It or Leave It. We are going to do a special crossover episode. So first, I'm going to talk to Jon Favreau, Dan Pfeiffer, two of the top four hosts of Pod Save America. And we're going to talk through some of the latest developments as we head into the... What are you looking at me like? What are you making? You're in. You're here. Hi, Jon. Hello. Good to be here on your show. Thanks for having us. Good to be here on your show. Thanks for having us. And so we're going to talk about the latest developments on immigration, SCOTUS, and outrage rising in the Democratic Party base. And then we're going to go to the live show I recorded on Friday where we covered the rest of the week's news.

So we smashed it together and we bring it to you now. So thinking about what to talk about today, the news has pretty much been the same for two weeks. But there were a few big picture scene setting stories this week about the Democratic Party that I thought we could dig into a little bit. So both of them ran over the weekend. The New York Times headline is, as Trump consolidates power, Democrats confront a rebellion in their ranks. Sounds scary. And the Washington Post headline is, a bad week for Democrats gives rise to a big problem. Outrage could become an obstacle in midterms. So the lead of the Washington Post one is, and the Washington Post was Michael Scherer, and the New York Times was Jonathan Martin and Alex Burns. So the lead of the Washington Post

story is, growing liberal agitation over a pivotal Supreme Court retirement and a simmering crisis about immigrant child separation have left Democratic leaders scrambling to keep the Now, there's a few things conflated in these stories. There's questions about ideology, there's questions about strategy and tactics, and there's questions about tone and message. Let's start with ideology. Are either of you concerned that the Democratic Party is moving too far to the left on any issues? Dan, we'll start with you. No, I'm not. Love it? No. My answer to you is no. Okay, Dan, you elaborate, and then, Loveit, you can elaborate. The premise of these stories, there are a genre of stories that have existed for as long as Democrats have either been in power or out of power, and they are called Dems in Disarray stories, which means we are panicking, things are all screwed up.

And in a sense, they are because we control nothing. So I don't know what they're worried about us blowing, but we control nothing. I don't know what they're worried about us blowing, but we control nothing. Ideology-wise, I think two things. One, we have good candidates running races specific to their districts and states. And it's different whether it is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or someone running here in California 10 or Beto O'Rourke in Texas. What is more, the line that runs through the best campaigns and the best candidates has not been ideology. It has been authenticity. People are running authentic and

passionate races that the people can feel. It doesn't feel like politics as usual. Second, I think that both of these stories, and I think this will be true in all the different categories you raise, particularly ideology, are using a outdated way of thinking about politics. Donald Trump ran an entirely anti-ideological campaign to win. He was both conservative and liberal. He was a populist. He was a corporatist, all the things. And to try to treat this like it is the 1992 healthcare battle doesn't understand politics in this day and age? I think you're right on the ideology thing. Like, this idea that is so ingrained in, and it's not just punditry and reporting. I think there are people within the Democratic Party, strategists, pollsters, ex-politicians, current politicians who also have the same concerns sometimes. They think about this

like imaginary Midwestern voter. And this Midwestern voter, when he or she hears the term Medicare for all or federal jobs guarantee or debt-free college or something like that, suddenly they think, oh, that is way too far to the left on the spectrum for me. And I'm not that far left on the spectrum. And I don't think that comports with any reality that we've seen in the last couple of elections, especially like you said, Dan, Donald Trump is president. These are ideas that poll well, right? These are ideas that have broad based appeal. Medicare for all has broad based appeal, universal college, universal pre-K, the so-called radical liberal ideas that are that are pulling the party too far to the left. These are simple, elegant, political solutions that people can understand and rally behind. And the idea that there's somebody who would vote Democrat but then thinks, oh, that's too much pre-K. That's too many kids getting pre-K for me.

One of the silver linings from Donald Trump winning is that it should liberate us from worrying about both electability and how each policy position is going to play in various districts. If you don't like Medicare for All because you think as a policy, it may not work well. If you think a certain policy costs too much money and you'd rather spend that money on something else, all these things, that's fine. On a substantive level, if you're a candidate running and you don't agree with one policy or the other, totally get that. Do not let yourself get stuck in the trap of worrying about whether a policy is going to poll specifically one place or the other. Partly because you can message these policies almost any way you want. you can message these policies almost any way you want. Voters make choices based on values,

based on big goals, based on outcomes, and the ins and outs of the specific policy, like we can worry about that once we're actually in power governing. We've talked a lot about the fact that, oh, you know, people were, you know, parsing data, but then losing the big picture and being too specific. The same happens on policy. There's the same kind of polling and parsing on what policy appeals to who and whether or not you should talk about something in this district versus that district. And the idea, if you're looking at politics in 2018 and thinking, oh, this is a surgical operation, this is going to be about very specific tweaks. Sledgehammer is not scalpels, right? You need to break through and you need to not worry about what the attack is going to be from Donald Trump or what the attack is going to

be from your opponent because the idea that there's a system for analyzing and breaking down your policy views in a sophisticated way and then presenting that analysis to voters is just not real. It's not real. There is no, that policy conversation, maybe it used to happen in DC, it barely happens there anymore. You need to have something you can say that is big, that you can stand behind, that can make sense to people. And it needs to be able to weather the incredible assault of nonsense to make it in front of somebody's Facebook feed. And parsing whether or not you're for a public option versus Medicare for all, I think is just a waste of time. I think that's right. I'll say one more thing on this, which is the worst elements of bad

Democratic consultant and political thinking is always when you try to build your message and policy in anticipation of what the Republican attack is going to be. And that is exactly what it's like with Medicare for all, because here you have, essentially you have Medicare, one of the most popular government programs in history, being expanded to everyone, which is popular. But we don't want to talk about it because we fear how it can be demagogued by the Republicans and that that's when we'll lose.

And there are two problems with that. One, that's just a terrible way of thinking, that we're going to censor what we say because we think Republicans, Donald Trump may tweet about it, but it's also deeply naive about how they will message things in the Donald Trump era, because no matter what the Democrats position is on abolish ice or immigration reform, Donald Trump will say that you have sided with the animals of MS-13. You have some freedom to be for what you want to be for. And like, we should be liberated in this era to say what we believe in, which will be better off than, because it doesn't matter what we do.

Donald Trump will accuse us of the worst thing humanly possible. The demagoguing is here. It's been happening for a while. They've gone demagoguing crazy. The idea that like, if like Kamala Harris or Kirsten Gillibrand didn't come out for abolishing ICE at some point, because that's where the base is pushing them, that Donald Trump would be like, I was going to unleash a series of completely dishonest attacks on these people for siding with ISIS. But now that they've moderated slightly on this position, I'm standing down. Donald Trump is standing down.

It isn't just Donald Trump. The whole Republican Party has been like that. And they've been like that before Trump. They went crazy during the Obama era. Probably a little bit before. We spent weeks hearing from Republicans on the Hill saying things like, well, I agree that children shouldn't be hostages. I never wanted children to be hostages or pawns in this game of politics. But then they were immediately quite comfortable saying, seems to me like Democrats are all for open borders and we're for border security. So they want the demagoguery. They just want to do it in the more sophisticated DC fashion. Right. And I think the other thing to keep in mind is the reason

that this moment requires bolder policy solutions. It's not just Trump and the Republicans are in charge now and they've gone crazy and so we can say whatever we want. We're also dealing with rising inequality, stagnant wages. Now more people are losing their health care since Trump became president. Like there's an economic transformation that has been happening in this country over the last couple of decades that, you know, in the eight years of the Obama administration, Obama pulled us out of crisis, pulled us out of a near depression, brought us back to where we were before. But as he acknowledged too, where we were before the Great Recession wasn't good enough, and it has only gotten worse since then. And at some point, we have to think to ourselves, what are the policy solutions that will meet the magnitude of the economic challenge that

most people in this country are facing every single day. Barack Obama came in in a period of incredible turmoil, and he was part of a Democratic primary that actually moved the party to the left, but landed at a place of the Affordable Care Act as a compromised market-based solution with expansion of Medicaid, et cetera, et cetera, and sort of digging out from this incredible crisis. And even in that moment, even when he was seen by some on the left as being too pragmatic, what did the Republicans do? They didn't come and help. Democrats being pragmatic and seeking out compromise, we did it on taxes, we did it on the debt ceiling, we did it on healthcare, spent six months dancing with Chuck Grassley. What happened was we passed a bunch of incredibly important legislation that tried to solve some pretty big

problems and do so in a way that required compromise and hard politics. Hard choices, is that what you're going to say? I was not going to say hard choices. I was going to say decision points, actually. I was going to refer to them as decision points. But what do the Republicans do? They turn those things into socialism and have spent the last two and a half years trying to undo every single one of them. So if we're going to try to actually solve problems, we need to go big and push this country towards bigger answers to these hard questions, because no matter what we do, there is a right wing that will undo anything, no matter how moderated, no matter how practical. Once you start screaming about death panels, about a plan that was modeled after Mitt Romney's health care plan in Massachusetts,

you've sort of gone over the ledge there. Yeah, we stole it from the Heritage Foundation. So let's talk about, the second thing is let's talk about the grassroots leadership divide. We saw Joe Crowley defeated, okay? This is someone who, obviously Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

is further to the left than Crowley, but Crowley, one of the more progressive members of Congress, one of the first members of Congress to embrace Medicare for all, he's defeated. We've heard Democrats criticize Pelosi and Schumer for not fighting hard enough. There's now an expectation among some in the grassroots that we can block Trump's Supreme Court pick when, you know, we have 49 votes. So it is something slightly different than ideology here that is driving sort of a grassroots versus why can't these Democrats in Washington fight hard enough. Dan, what do you think is going on there?

Like everything else in these, not just these two articles, but the general conversation with this, we've conflated a thousand things together. Yeah. There are differences between the approach of Democrats in Washington and sort of in the grassroots groups, whether it's swing left, indivisible, mom's demand, and everyone else who's out there. And that is usually more in the Senate than the House. And that is usually around Chuck Schumer trying to manage the politics of a bunch of members running in states that Trump won. And I think that that is a very tough challenge for Chuck Schumer. And because he doesn't actually control what Joe Manchin does. Like he could tell Joe Manchin, don't vote against whoever Trump puts up for the Supreme Court.

And Joe Manchin could say, I'm going to, I'm just going to vote for him. I mean, let's not forget Joe Manchin shot Barack Obama's climate change bill with a gun and a television ad. So he's not going to be our friend on all things. That is different than Joe Crowley's defeat. Those are just two different things. They are probably tangentially related, but they are different. I've seen this before.

I saw this in 2004 after – or in the early years of the Bush era when MoveOn and all these other anti-Iraq war groups sprung up. and all these other anti-Iraq war groups sprung up. And I do think that to the credit of some in the democratic establishment, they are being much more welcoming of swing left and indivisible in these groups than has previously happened. Like there seems to be less of a territorialism and a condescension from Washington and their Trump. Maybe there may be some of it's co-opting and it's more malicious than it appears, but there seems to be, everyone seems to want to share the state. My basic view is we should get out of the way and

let these grassroots groups lead. Because I don't know of anyone in Washington, or ourselves included, who have a sterling record in the 2016 election that suggests that we have all the right answers for this. And so we should be aligning ourselves with the groups who are mostly most closely tied to the grassroots enthusiasm that's fueling the electoral victories we've had over the last two years. Dan, I heard a couple people, I saw a couple people on Twitter say, if only Obama had fought harder for Merrick Garland back when he nominated Merrick Garland, we might not be in this mess right now. Garland back when he nominated Merrick Garland, we might not be in this mess right now. Can we just go back? Was there anything else that Barack Obama or the Senate Democrats could have done to

put Merrick Garland on the bench back in 15, 16, whatever it was? From my perspective, no. Mitch McConnell controlled the power. If there was nothing Barack Obama, Harry Reid, who was the leader at the time, could do to make Mitch McConnell put the nomination of Merrick Garland on the floor. That is a power that solely he had. And as long as the Republicans stuck together, nothing could have done it. Barack Obama couldn't have gone to his house and made a compelling case and got Mitch McConnell to do it because Mitch McConnell operates entirely on cold calculating political incentives. And he had a very strong political incentive to not do this. And I think the critique that I think can be given to the entire party is, we did not do a good enough job of telling people what was at stake. If let's, so, so Garland's not going to get the position while Barack Obama's

president. So now there's a Supreme court seat at stake in the election. And I think as has been true for a long time with Democrats in questions around judges and Supreme Court, we haven't convinced people why this is so goddamn important. And now we are paying for that in the most painful ways possible, because it did work for Republicans. I did a panel before the election with S.E. Cupp, the CNN commentator who's a never-Trumper. And we had done a bunch of panels together. Usually, it was mostly people who didn't love Trump. And we basically got shouted out of the room because no matter how much you didn't like Trump, these Republicans wanted the Supreme Court seat. That became the permission structure to support him against everything else, his

inexperience, his racism, his misogyny, everything else was we get the Supreme Court seat. And frankly, abortion was at stake. And there's nothing to say that we could not have made that argument better on our side. It wouldn't have gotten Merrick Garland in the seat in that time period, but it would have maybe helped explain to people why the seat is so important. We don't know what it would look like if Mitch McConnell was holding up a Supreme Court seat and Hillary Clinton's opponent was Marco Rubio and he was up in the polls by four points. Right. We don't know how we would be feeling during that time if if the idea of Trump winning wasn't seen as being more remote than it actually was. seen as being more remote than it actually was. I don't believe barring basically turning his presidency into a campaign for that Supreme Court justice seat, right? Having like basically turned it into the biggest and most important issue he was facing to put pressure on other Republicans.

And I don't even know if that would have worked. Who knows? But I do think one of the reasons I think people are bringing it up is because I think we all look back on that period of time and Garland's not getting seated or the idea of Trump making the appointment that Mitch McConnell stole went from being a kind of hypothetical we couldn't deal with emotionally to an irreversible reality that night on election day. We weren't because we thought Hillary Clinton was going to win. What Mitch McConnell was doing was despicable, but we weren't honest with ourselves about the risks because we weren't honest with ourselves about the risk of Donald Trump becoming president. And that carries over into a whole bunch of

different issues. Right. But I do think like sometimes people equate Democrats not having power with Democrats not fighting hard enough. We just have to remember that as we go forward in the Supreme Court fight. I mean, look, this is what happened during the whole shutdown over the Dreamers. You know, and we did this on this podcast. We pushed all the Democrats to say that they will not, you know, they're not going to fund deportations of Dreamers. And we're going to, you know, they're looking for a compromise here. And they all did it. And then they folded after 24, 48 hours.

But even what a day of courage it was. But even if they had held tight for a week, two weeks, I think they should have. But I also couldn't say for sure whether Republicans and Donald Trump ever would have backed down from that and said, OK, sure, we'll do what you want to do. I think we got our answer when he started separating children from parents. Exactly. He turned down $25 billion for the wall, refused to help the Dreamers, and then decided to separate families at the border. I think we knew what Donald Trump was going to do all along. I think part of this is expectations management. This is on Schumer and Pelosi, which is they let people believe, and we let people believe,

frankly, that we could win that fight when that was highly unlikely. And just everyone listening to this knows this, but many of your friends may not, which is if every Democrat really hard and we may lose. But then there was also, and this goes to Senate Democrats, understanding the importance of having the fight even if you lose. Right. Because fighting and losing is better than not fighting at all. For sure. The ultimate question that I think is so important for Schumer, Pelosi, the entire Democratic Party establishment is they have to demonstrate to the people who marched in the Women's March, who marched for our lives, who stormed airports. They have to show to those people that they, our party, and these leaders are a worthy vessel for that enthusiasm. And that is going to require having tough fights, even if we lose them. And so doing this calculation of we're probably going to lose, or we're going to save our powder for another day, I think is a huge strategic error.

The powder is unlimited. Yeah. And also, but Dan, I actually think it's more than that. I don't think these fights are just about signaling to the base, signaling to the activists that we can maybe stop one nominee or maybe or stop a more heinous nominee or cause it to be controversial, cause it to be a negative for Republicans. That'll be valuable in the fall. That'll remind people that we just had this big argument over criminalizing abortion over preexisting conditions. So I think it has value even to the people that are not hardcore Democrats, but are going to start tuning in in the fall anyway. So let's talk about tone and message. I think all three of us would very much agree that the entire civility debate is obscene. But how about this whole, like, you know, too much outrage,

too much anger? Yeah. Pundits need to decide how hot they want democratic voters to be all right it's like the goldilocks thing like oh they're getting a little too angry that's gonna alienate a group of people in the midwest i've never met oh they're not angry enough they're not gonna get the votes they need in the parts of new york i've never been to like what do you want you want a passionate but not too passionate angry but not too angry ready to vote but not crazy like what do you want what do you want? You want a passionate, but not too passionate, angry, but not too angry, ready to vote, but not crazy. Like, what do you want? What do you want? What do you want a Democratic base voter to be like? How loud? This loud? A little bit quieter. The thing is, fucking outrageous things are happening all across this country. We should be outraged. And this idea that some pundit in Washington knows what the exact right temperature

that voters want their politicians to be is asinine. They've never known the answer. They certainly don't know it now. People are outraged and they're angry because there's not enough democracy in our democracy. You know, they're outraged because people's civil rights and civil liberties are being trampled and we're a country that says that we believe in civil rights and civil liberties. Like, that's what people are outraged about. But I also think that there's a, this is another conflation here too. They're conflating how activists and people on the ground, people at these marches feel with what politicians – how politicians should comport themselves. And I think if you are an activist, if you're an organizer, if you're someone who's just paying attention to the politics for the very first time and you're angry and you're upset, then fucking go be angry and upset because you deserve to be because of what's happened here. But like please vote. Channel that anger in a productive way, which is registering people to vote, voting, going to marches, knocking on doors, making phone calls.

Do that. Don't just be angry and scream into the Twitter sphere. candidates who are running, I haven't really seen an angry, fire-breathing Democratic candidate who makes their whole campaign, his or her whole campaign, about being angry. Like, we've talked about this before. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, she definitely had a lot of passion, and she was angry on behalf of the people that she will go on to represent. But she didn't, and she said this herself, she didn't spend most of her campaign talking about Trump.

It's such a funny, like, it goes actually to the same thing about like, ugh, this Red Hen restaurant is playing right into Trump's hands. They're not in politics. They're just a group of people with a restaurant. It's like, these articles are like, Democratic voters may be presenting a problem with Democratic voters in the fall. Like, what are you talking about? These are just, these are people. They with Democratic voters in the fall. What are you talking about? These are people.

They're just people in the world. Some guy showed up to a fucking immigration protest with a gun, pulled a gun on the protesters, yelled womp womp because he decided to parrot Corey fucking Lewandowski. And our country can't, like, how stupid does it have to get? Now that's a slogan of white nationalism. Womp womp. Like, how stupid does it have to get? Now that's a slogan of white nationalism. Womp womp.

You didn't hear a bunch of pundits saying, oh, Republicans have to watch themselves because that guy who pulled a gun on the protesters represents the Republican Party. And why would he, why would that guy give the Democrats such a gift by pulling a, no, you didn't hear anything about that. Nothing. Why do you guys think that is? So what is the, what is the underlying assumptions that lead... Because these pundits in DC are on the side of the Democrats, but they can't say that because they must be unbiased at all times and they must be analytic at all times. And so what they spend most of their time doing is saying, be better, Democrats. Act civilly, act how I think you should act because I am a pundit in Washington. And here's how I want you to be because you're my son.

And it's very serious things. And I believe in very serious ways of acting and being and stuff like that. That's what I think. These articles are like, they closed the door and now it's just family. And let's talk amongst ourselves. Look at those crazy people across the street. You want to be like them? We're not like them. We're better than that. Let's keep it close. But of course, it's on the internet. It's also just we need a new narrative, right? For weeks, it was the country, everything's falling apart for Trump because for the first time ever, he's facing political accountability for his child separation policy. We stuck to the same story for two weeks. So what's the new story?

Democrats in disarray. And these stories also swerve out of their lane to make this point. I read this Washington Post article that we mentioned here, and the main person quoted in it, is it Chuck Schumer? Is it Nancy Pelosi? Is it an upstart Democrat like Beto O'Rourke or Stacey Abrams? No, it's Michael fucking Moore. I know, man. Like what you quote from a appearance on the Bill Maher show. Like there is nothing more disconnected than what is actually going to matter to voters, activists,

politicians than what Michael Moore said to Bill Maher. We're looking really like it is a narrative in search of a story. It is. I know it is foolish. It's funny. We spent 10 minutes talking about it. Well, everyone out there should not read these stories. We have 10 minutes talking about it. Everyone out there should

not read these stories if you haven't read them already. Ignore them and get back to fucking work because it doesn't matter what a pundit says about whether your attitude or your outrage or your policy is going to affect the election. Their predictions are pointless. They're meaningless and they're usually wrong. We actually control what happens here by turning out to vote because there are more of us than them. So like, it's like, it's actually pretty simple. And the rest of this is just filling space until the votes actually start getting cast. That is, that is what they do well. I mean, look, the New York Times story, I thought was better because the New York Times story basically concluded like, and this might actually help Democrats win. The Washington Post washington post story was completely upset yeah the michael moore thing i was just like but this this is what's

this is of course the whole problem this is what happens is a certain a small incident an isolated incident happens like the red hen thing or you know michael moore saying that and people pick it up and that becomes the narrative in dc also what's the outrageous thing they called for peaceful protest he called for peaceful protest. What a fucking radical. Anyway. So I think we're fine. Everyone feel good?

No. I'm outraged. I just, it's just like, so let's just like the sequence of events, just so people understand, is a person who won for your votes became president, appointed a stolen Supreme Court seat. They used that Supreme Court seat to steal a bunch more power for their constituencies of corporations and the rich. Then the president started separating children from families to send a cruel message to people seeking a better life against terrible, terrible odds. Democrats have responded by being outraged, passionate, and protesting. And the question is, will this hurt us?

Seems like a good week for Donald Trump. One of Trump's best weeks. I saw an AP headline that said that. Another royal flush from President Trump. Can I ask you guys one more question about this? Do you think any piece of this kind of story about, oh, the Democrats are too outraged, oh, the Democrats are being pulled too far in a radical direction, do you think there's some part of it that stems from a belief on the part of some reporters, a quiet belief that there is still this silent majority, that there is still this group of people who will be alienated by this kind of thing? who will be alienated by this kind of thing? I mean, that could be possible with the reporters. I don't tend to think of a silent majority as this silent majority that secretly loves Donald Trump and is going to come out to vote for him. I am always mindful of the fact that there is,

that most of the country does not pay attention to politics as closely as all of us. And most of the people who listen to this podcast. But a good chunk of that country still votes. And they are people who don't pay as close attention to the news. They don't consume politics like we do. And I always think to myself, when they turn on the news, when they finally pay attention closer to the election, what are they going to see from Democratic candidates versus Republican candidates? And I do think that impression that we have on people who aren't as aware as we are of all the crazy shit that's going on they know that bad things are happening they know that trump is president they probably don't like donald trump but they're thinking to themselves okay i don't like donald

trump he's pretty fucking crazy he's got the tweets everything's good this country seems like it's going to hell in a handbasket there's like a lot of shit going on but um i don't know what are the democrats up to what are they going to? And I hope that what they see is – It's Chuck Schumer in front of a gas station. No, I hope what they see are candidates who are offering big, bold solutions to the problems that they face in their lives and they're telling them, I am going to fight like hell for you and try to make this country a little bit better. Like that's what I hope they see. And I hope they don't see all of these little controversies. So I think to the extent that we have to discipline ourselves to make sure that that message gets out, which I think Ocasio-Cortez did successfully, which I think Conor Lamb did successfully. People

across the spectrum have done that successfully so far, which is why I'm hopeful about November. Yeah. Just one more. Like, it's also actually, that's something that's really important too, which is why I'm hopeful about November. Yeah, just one more. Like, it's also actually, that's something that's really important too, because even if you are a Democrat who thinks that A, abolishing ICE is a bad idea because you're a centrist,

and you think it's bad politically because you're a centrist, it is still a better idea to just say what you think than it is to spend your days trying to police the words of other Democrats. Yes, that is true. If you have an opportunity to go on background or go on record with a reporter who's asking you about Dems and disarray stories, just don't.

Or just at least talk about the issues that you believe in. Talk about your policy positions. Talk about what you think. Don't start being a pundit. Leave that to the pros like us. Dan, do you think the background brigades are going to hear and heed John's message? Do you think that we will finally crush the spirits of the unnamed strategists roiling Democratic politics?

Who wanted to speak anonymously so he could speak freely about the intraparty divisions. Because they're still trying to make money out of the other side. I think there are going to be reporters walking around Washington, D.C. all summer with so much time on their hands because there's going to be no one calling them to talk about why the Democratic Party is fucked up. We'll quote on background for food. That's what their signs will say.

All right. I think the last thing I'll say on this before I let you go is, or let you segue us into the next section, is what all of this boils down to is a common belief among reporters, pundits, politicians, consultants, that caution is a better path than courage in campaigns. And there is basically zero history of that being true. Thanks to John and Dan for doing this news update. When we come back, we will have our live show with Tawny Newsome, Jose Antonio Vargas, and Molly Lambert. It was a great show. So, you back, we will have our live show with Tawny Newsome, Jose Antonio Vargas, and

Molly Lambert. It was a great show. So, you know, keep listening. Hello, friends of Los Angeles. Thank you for coming to the late show. Look at this crowd. You're already so fucked up. Barely functional.

Your people are a mess. Is that truffle mac and cheese? Ugh, I could smell that fucking shit from here. Let's talk about truffle oil for a second. I was a person minding my own business in a place called America. When someone said, do you want truffles? Is there truffle oil? I was like, oh, like chocolates?

Like chocolate truffles. And slowly over about the last 10 years, this idea of this fancy food that pigs find in Italy slowly sort of came down from the Mount Olympus of the Michelin restaurants and slowly descended downward to other places. And it's ended up everywhere in the form of something called truffle oil. Truffle oil is the most disgusting thing I have ever smelled. I don't understand how you people are putting it in your bodies.

I don't think truffles have gotten anywhere near it. I think it's totally artificial. And it's a giant scam, okay, to take macaroni and cheese, which is cheap, and call it truffled macaroni and cheese, which is expensive. And I'm sure that this is something I'm not supposed to highlight here. But all truffle, like everyone's like, whoa, this truffle oil chant. Oh, it's so weird how you can make everything $2 more

by pouring five cents worth of garbage on top of it and fucking pretentious yokels like yourself. We're like, whoa, what am I in Paris? Sure, truffles. I'll try the truffle oil. Champagne for everyone. Truffles here at a comedy club?

That's amazing. I'll surely pay a $2 premium for I think that's something that's made out of petroleum. It smells so much like fucking truffles right here and I genuinely, what are you filming this for? What are you going to do with this content? You better not put a fucking ad in front of it. All right, let's start the show, guys. You want to start the show? She's an actor and comedian from Majillion Dollar Properties, co-host of Yo! Is This Racist, an awesome podcast, and she has a new podcast and recording project, The Super Group, please welcome Tawny Newsome. Hi, Tawny. Hi.

How are you? Good. He's the founder of Define American and the author of the upcoming book, Dear America, Notes of an Undocumented Citizen. Please welcome Jose Antonio Vargas. Hello, Jose. Hi. Hi.

What's up? Cool, cool, cool. She's the host of the podcast Night Call and an organizer with Nolympics LA. Please welcome Molly Lambert. Hi, Molly. Hi. How are you? Good.

What is Nolympics? Nolympics is a group that opposes the Olympics in different cities and right now in Los Angeles in 2028 we talk about just the ways that the Olympics exacerbate things like gentrification and homeless sweeps and stuff in different cities and in LA they voted to have

the Olympics in 2028 without any public input from people in Los Angeles and if it goes over budget which it always does then people in Los Angeles. And if it goes over budget, which it always does, then people in California have to pay for it. So that's something to look forward to. All right, let's get into it. What a week.

This is going to be airing after the July 4th break, a day where we celebrate America at a time when I think a lot of us feel like we're losing the country that we never thought was perfect, but that we did believe was better than this. Tani, I will start with you. How discouraged are you right now? And what are you finding is helping you kind of out of it?

Oh, I recommend everyone just get a black parent during this time. Because if you can just rustle one up, it'll really help. Because any time I'm like, whoa, it's me. The world is so hard. My dad's like, drinking fountains. And he'll just lay into me about shit that i cannot even fathom so i mean as down as i want to get i just got to drive like seven hours north see dominic newsome and be like i just have to complain about some low-level shit

and have him verbally smack me back into my right mind. So everyone just find a black parent. That should be super easy. There should be an app. Black dad. It's black dad, but there's two Ds and no vowels. Yeah, there's no vowels. So doesn't that just look like blicked? It's blicked.

Blicked. Check it out on blicked. Oh no, blicked got taken over by white supremacists. Oh damn. Isn't that the way fucking silicon valley what a shame what a shame uh jose we have seen some of the worst abuses against undocumented people in a very long time you're someone that has been on the front lines of fighting for undocumented people and for dreamers and for people who are just looking

for an opportunity to have a life in this country, in a country that is their only home, in a country that we have told people around the world to come to to get work and start a life in an extra-legal system that we're all complicit in building. Again, what are you feeling right now at this moment where we're sort of facing a lot of setbacks? You know, it's really depressing when people ask me how bad is it right now? This is kind of the bottom. So it's all uphill from here, right? And then when I get depressed, which I do a lot, I just open up the fire next time and know it's a native son. And I just remember that this is a country that's about resilience. And the fact that, you know, we're in L.A.

Like, there's, what, 800,000 undocumented people in L.A. that make this whole area run. Isn't it amazing that they get up every day and they go to work and they drop the kids off to school, and under a government that doesn't want them and call them like they're insects off our backs? Like, it's amazing. Like, I think they represent the best in America.

So, yeah. It's amazing. I think they represent the best in America. Molly, America didn't even make the World Cup. Something I did find out from this card. I was saying, I feel like that's a great punishment for America right now. It's like everyone's enjoying soccer, and America doesn't get to be part of that because we didn't earn it. We have to just enjoy all the countries that Americans

come from playing and be happy with that. Tough. Tough time. Look, we've just had this week of this terrible family separation news, this Kennedy news, the upholding of this Muslim ban, not to mention rulings

that will undermine workers' rights, that will undermine women's rights. There's a lot of people out there saying, no, we've got to keep fighting, we've got to stay hopeful. And I think that's right, but it's hard. It's hard when you feel like the cost of the 2016 election keeps getting worse, even though we can't undo the horror

of the decision, but we can watch as the decision gets worse and worse. Well, I think it's a little back to the future-y because it's also like all those things were happening in America before 2016, and everyone's being forced to think about that now. It's not like America was great to undocumented immigrants ever in history and not beforehand, you know, not before the 2016 election. I think now we're seeing it escalate and become more public and more violent and the way that racism happens is more violent, but it's not new. I think what Jose was saying is true. It's like America has always had a lot of real problems. We're reckoning with all those those problems right now but that's what makes me hopeful is maybe we're finally going to talk about them instead of pretending it doesn't exist yeah i also think there's something to be said

about the cyclical nature of uh you know taking a break for your mental health and then also re-engaging when you feel ready because no one of us is ever going to be on the same wavelength with that so as long as you're able to say like like, I got to step the fuck away and go, like, on a trip. I got to go somewhere. I got to get out of this town. And then when you come back really making a conscious effort to reengage, catch up on what you missed, that's how we'll kind of, like, we'll relay race each other, you know. I'll pass you the racism baton. And then you can pick it up.

And you can run to the finish line. And you can be like, I'm fucking sick of these white people. And then you can hand it to her. And she'll be like, I'm fucking sick of these white people and then you can hand it to her and she'll be like, I'm sick of these men and you know, we'll just trade it around. Oh, that baton sucks.

Yeah. It's a bad baton, but like, if you put it down, it turns into more batons. So you gotta hold that shit so it doesn't reproduce, you know?

This metaphor doesn't track, but thank you for laughing. No, it's really good. It's really good. It's the baton that represents fighting racism and racism itself. And when you put it down, it produces... It makes sense. I don't think we should analyze it. Thank you so much.

Don't cut a word out of this segment. I will not. I will cut... The only part I will cut is anyone questioning it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Finished shitty fucking week. Now for a game we call

Okay Stop. Yay! Why not? You guys know how it works. We roll a clip and we stop and talk about it. We say okay stop and then we can chat

about whatever we feel like it. Jesse Waters. He's like Ben Shapiro if he got his style tips from last decade's Queer Eye after a cement mixer fell on his head.esse has something to say about civility and how the left are the only ones who have anything bad to say that is on them that is not on if you go to a donald trump rally and you and donald trump is standing up there and saying i'll pay legal fees if any of you want

to beat up some of these people i mean what going on? We all know now that the people swinging were paid in protest. Okay, stop. I already have a problem with Jesse Waters' finger waving in that black man's face. That finger is a little too, it's a lady asking for a manager already. And it created a feeling in me just seeing that, the wave, the breadth of the wave. It goes far, you know? Yes. And one thing to be aware of is there is apparently a permitting process for black people to be on Fox News.

And Jesse Waters is calling the police on one. Because that dude sold a bottle of water to him before the tape rolled. But Donald Trump, Donald Trump saying, oh, if you if Hillary Clinton is elected and points a Supreme Court judge who does anything to your gun rights, well, I guess you Second Amendment people have to take. But there hasn't been examples of

radical, violent... At a certain point it's like, what are we doing, right? Because I feel like we spend a lot of time saying obvious things about people who are lying on purpose like there is no you know there's that up to sinclair line you can't convince somebody of something their livelihood depends on not believing like there's not like there's a set of words that juan williams can say to jesse waters

at the end of which Jesse goes, huh, I hadn't thought about it that way. Donald Trump is a world historic prick, you know, and supporting him is indefensible and I only do it because of a massive financial incentive structure built over decades that taught me

a craven, ambitious person without very much intelligence or scruples that if I wanted to make it in this world and not as a realtor or guy that would clearly fail out of Goldman Sachs, this was the path. I apologize.

Now if you'll need me, I will go back and get the degree in communications my father always said I would get because he was insulting me. get the degree in communications my father always said I would get because he was insulting me. And that's how Waters PR was born. Harvey Weinstein is their new client.

And hateful Trump supporters disrespecting people in public places like restaurants like is happening on the other side. What do you call that lady getting run over a year ago in Charlottesville, Jesse? I wouldn't blame Donald Trump for that. What are we going to do with this on all the time? This is on a show called The Five. That means there's three more of these people. Oh, God, I didn't know that.

There's others. I thought it was how many ties they each owned. Like, one in every primary color, and then a fun one that's just, like, pure white. Oh, I see. Very interesting. The problem is... How do you blame the restaurant owner? Nobody in the Democratic Party told the restaurant owner what to do.

Wait a second. The people in the Democratic Party have been calling Trump a Nazi, and, like Maxine Woodard's saying, I encourage you to go call people out to their face and refuse them service. I blame her. Didn't we used to do that?

Like not give people service because they were black or because they're gay and because... Yeah. No, that's good though. That's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know what to do with these people, John.

I feel like you've been doing this long enough. you should have an idea right we should look to you pressure yeah the answer for what to do to fox news about fox news is a really really hard question because i think one of the things in the same way that we're often we were caught off guard by kennedy retiring and what it actually meant when there being two Supreme Court justice seats open over the course of the first years of Trump's presidency were a pretty natural and expected result. We are aware of but can't

really reckon with the damage that Fox News does every single day and the power it has. I mean, we say it and we know it's true but we can't accept it into our way of thinking about the world that the most important TV show on planet Earth is Fox and Friends. Maybe the most

important television show in human history is Fox and Friends the stupidest fucking show that's ever been created. I don't know what could rival it. I'm sorry I don't want anything with the word and friends to have that much influence on

our global politics. Like that's like saying, yeah, Captain Planet was the most, you know, like that's not a, no, it should be something that's like smarts and justice. That should be the thing that has the most influence. And you spell out the and. None of this ampersand fucking bullshit.

There should not be a symbol in. I do think that one thing, I've definitely thought about getting myself on Fox and Friends and then just being like, call Schumer. These people are lying to you. You can't trust Pence.

Yes, just going full hackers, just going full Matthew Lillard and hackers, like jumping in front of the camera feed and being like, get to a payphone, dudes. There's like, if I said my cell phone number maybe one time like i'd have to screen a bunch of calls yeah i don't know you can call air force one now anytime you want so maybe that's worth trying you're like they're controlling you through your mind don't wear hats i'm just curious has anybody here been on fox news anyone no i go a lot on Fox News yes well I gotta say

though and I said this I used to be a political reporter and the moment Trump announced he was running for president I told all my political reporter friends that he was gonna win and everybody thought I was crazy and since I am an undocumented gay Filipino guy with a Hispanic name who's been traveling all across this country who majored in African-American studies in college I can I can tell you right now that unless we figure out the Fox News thing he is gonna win again and this whole thing about like we all just talk to people who all agree with us this is like a big-ass problem in this country. Disagree. Okay.

Oh, John, let's talk about this, dude. Because I feel really kind of crazy about all the white progressive people that I meet who want nothing to do with their white conservative friends and relatives. I'm kind of like how much more weight do people of color have to carry around? Right? And you all don't even talk

to your relatives, right? So I all don't even talk to your relatives, right? So, like, I'd rather white people have, like, a white convention where, like, the white conservatives and the white progressives... Careful, careful, careful. No, I'm just, you know, just, like, talk to each other

and, like, work this out. You know what I mean? Like, I'm getting really tired of it. So, but, John, go ahead. No, look, I think that we cannot... We cannot forget persuasion. I do think a convention for all whites has had a historically bad outcome. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We just need a different way to phrase it. Yeah. The second the word only is on the sign, you know where it's headed. But I think you're right that we shouldn't forswear people and i do think that there's a lot of people who would rather argue on twitter with strangers than have a conversation with relatives however however i do think that the media focus on a certain set of white voters has been extreme and the reality is and i think this is something we see when we see new voters coming to vote for someone like ocasio-cortez in new New York or the campaigns or the enthusiasm for people like Beto in Texas or Stacey Abrams in Georgia is I think that there is more value in trying to get two people who didn't vote last time to vote than it is try to get one person to change their mind, especially if they have made themselves almost impossible to convince. But yes, I think that convincing people who were disgruntled and voted for Trump and now

regret it are a group of people that we can reach with a message that makes clear that we understand just how frustrated and how much change they want. But that is the message that we should be using, not because it will reach the people we need to persuade, but because it will reach the people who have turned off the process altogether. That the story we need to tell is a story for disenfranchised people who thought politics wasn't for them. And if that sweeps up the kind of people we should be persuading as well, I think that's a really good thing. That's all. That's what I think about that. I agree.

But I will tell you, I've had many... Look, I've had arguments within my own family about what Trump represents and whether or not it's racist to support Trump and why it is. And there was an Italian restaurant in Brooklyn, New York that was all very aware of the conversation happening at my family's table

in September of 2016. It got loud. But only for a brief moment because then the chicken parm came. Molly, anything to add? I don't know. I feel like I haven't had to argue with my own family members, but I've definitely fallen into the trap of arguing with people on Twitter about stuff. How's that been going for you?

Never good. A lot of minds changed, a lot of hearts opened? You know, I'm always getting in arguments about Nazis in the space program. Want to unpack that at all? Well. First of all, are there, were there? Oh, yeah, so many. Oh, my God.

We took all the rocket scientists from Nazi Germany. There was something called Operation Paperclip. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, where they took. Is this for real? It's all real. I mean that's the thing I think kind of what Tawny's dad was saying who we should all listen to

is if you know I find it kind of comforting to look at history and be like oh everything's always been terrible That is comforting. That's nice Feels good Like in some ways it's like better than it's been in other times, you know, if you're like a woman or a person of color or a queer person, it seems like it's definitely also been worse

before, you know, things were never like good. I will also say that I always took the fact that we turned the Nazi missile program of Germany into the American space program as something inspiring. No, sincerely, because they had this advanced rocket program that we had a lot to learn from and we took it. And then we used it to understand the universe and create some of the most incredible achievements in human history. All right. Here's where I might get into the argument. This idea that we had to, like, pardon all those people and put them in the American space program

to protect the sanctity of those ideas. It's like, we could have put them in jail. I also don't like the idea of, like, an extraterrestrial, the first human they meet is a Nazi. Well, hold on a second. We didn't put them on the fucking rockets. All right? We kept them in... Who did we put up there?

Non-Nazi Americans. No, but you know where we moved them to is Alabama, to bring it back. So where'd the Nazis go? Where'd we put them? We moved them to Huntsville. All right. Here's what's going to happen now. Molly, I hear you.

I'm going to continue to allow myself to believe that we took an evil weapons program and used it to understand the universe inspire a generation of people to go into space and because it's my show I can say and that's okay stop yeah hey don't go anywhere there's more of love it or leave it coming up

and we're back Donald Trump is president Republicans control Congress And we're back! Donald Trump is president. Republicans control Congress. The world is not doing very well. Unfortunately for you... All right, I'm just going to read it. You guys ready? Just brace yourselves.

The world is burning, but unfortunately, it's also burning when you pee. But the good news is no one can deny you health coverage thanks to the Affordable Care Act aka aka Obamacare

aka Dr. Obama Death Panel-o-rama. But if they can but if Republicans get their way people with Wait. I need you to say that last sentence again. Because it flew by so fast and it's delicious.

Tawny, will you just start from the beginning and you'll just read these two cards. Okay. Donald Trump is president. Republicans control Congress. The world is burning. Unfortunately for you, it's also burning when you pee. But the good news

is, no one can deny you health coverage thanks to the Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. Obamacare, a.k.a. Dr. Obama Death Panel-o-rama. But if Republicans get their way, people with fiery urethras won't be the only ones who can't afford a doctor visit. Yes.

Thank you. Thank you, Tani. Anytime. Yes, Republicans are once again trying to do away with Obamacare and its protections for pre-existing conditions, so we thought we'd highlight some of these pre-existing conditions in a game we are calling Pre-Existing Condition or Just Watching the News. Would someone out there like to play the game?

Hi, what's your name? Jesse. Jesse. Jesse. Yes. Good. Great. All right, Jesse, are you from LA? What's your deal?

Orange County. Orange County. You seem like you're in a good mood. That means you're fucked up. What's up? Just a couple drinks. Okay, good. Good, good, good.

All right, Jesse, your job is to figure out which of these is a preexisting condition Republicans want to take away healthcare for, and which is just something that happened to you because you've been watching the news for the past month. If it's a preexisting condition, say preexisting condition. If it's the news, say news.

You ready, Jesse? I'm ready. Cancer. Preexisting condition. Drug-existing condition. Drug addiction. Pre-existing condition. Fell in the bathtub and agitated a slipped disc after doing a shower cry for 20 minutes straight. Too much TV.

Asthma. Pre-existing condition. Immediately going blind while looking at your Twitter feed. Too much news. Breaking your fingers after typing too hard on the office Slack about how the administration isn't going to do anything about global warming and we need to at least switch off our office light bulbs. And also, I know that Lillian is the one eating my granola. Too much news.

Organ transplant. Pre-existing condition. Burn through your vocal cords after calling every single rep in the country multiple times. Too much news. Decrease in essential vitamins after sending my entire collection of fish oil and supplements to Ruth Bader Ginsburg. The exact right amount of news. Diabetes. Pre-existing condition.

Acne. Pre-existing condition. Ran through a glass plate window because you thought you saw a glimmer of hope outside. Too much news. Migraines. Pre-existing condition. Migraines from head-butting your TV while Tucker Carlson was talking about the war on men. Too much news.

Threw out your back while picking up the TV you head-butted while Tucker Carlson was talking about the war on men. Too much news. Obesity. Pre-existing condition. Pregesity. Pre-existing condition. Pregnancy. Pre-existing condition. An IQ below 70. Pre-existing condition.

Yeah. Broke out into highs because you're allergic to the apocalypse. Too much news. And finally, anxiety or depression? Pre-existing condition. No, it's a trick question. It's both. Jesse, you've won the game.

When we come back, and a parachute gift card for Jesse. When we come back, the rant wheel. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It and there's more on the way. And we're back. Now for the rant wheel. Here's how it works.

We spin the wheel wherever it lands. We rant about the topic. This week on the wheel, we have people saying, quote, Hillary warned us. Selfie murals. We have people talking about judges being in the mold of other judges. Farm to fork. Lifetime appointments., hiking while brown, the Olympics, and immigration media coverage.

Let's spin the wheel. It has landed on farm to fork. Farm to fork has been in the news lately because of the red hen and their desire to not force their employees to serve the worst human beings to work in the White House in a generation. And doing so in the most polite manner possible, which included giving Sarah Huckabee Sanders a free cheese plate for their trouble. giving Sarah Huckabee Sanders a free cheese plate for their trouble. They have been threatened on the internet nonstop for a very long time because of civility. However, and again, not the biggest issue, I think this farm-to-fork thing doesn't make any sense. I don't know what other kinds of food there are,

but if you find a piece of broccoli that didn't start on a farm of some kind, I'd love to meet it. It's all farm to fork. What isn't farm to fork? I don't understand. You're not on the farm. Like, what does it mean?

Like, it definitely was on a truck or some kind of a vehicle to get to you in the same way that all the broccoli is. Like, less time between farm and fork what if it's a soup again there's nothing in that soup that didn't start on a farm it's just not what what find me about what what are you talking about that's farm to spoon i bro. I'm just saying. I'm not like an archaeologist, but I know the difference between a fork and a spoon. Tawny, I want you to know something

that just happened, which is you were a fucking sniper because you said it. Then you let me be so stupid for so long. And then you just went, and a thousand yards away, I died. Oh, this broccoli came from close by. I don't give a shit.

Am I supposed to? I guess I'm supposed to. Now I got to care how close the broccoli was started? I feel like, yeah, because broccoli from far away gets lonely, right? So, like, you want it to feel like at home. Farm to fork. I'm for it. Let's spin it again.

It has landed on hiking while brown, which Tawny suggested. I did. If you're brown and you like to hike and go in the out of doors and more explicitly go on like long backpacking trips or be places that are deemed adventure destinations like Desolation Wilderness or the Redwoods or Death Valley. Allie, you know that the amount of times you get approached by helpful, well-meaning, outdoorsy white people is, it just, it is a weight that we have to bear heavier than any 70 liter backpack. Because so many people are so confused to see us there that I believe even the most well-meaning people that are like maybe overjoyed to see black people, you know, bivouacking or whatnot they want to help and they want to tell you that the waterfall you're seeking is just 30 yards away

and you're like yeah bitch I got the same map you do and it makes me crazy because I get stopped so many times in the wilderness and it just it lessens my enjoyment I'm going out into the nature to get away from all people, to get away from every, I just want to see a bear. I want to be scared for my life and I don't want someone telling me, oh, hey, you know, this trail actually can get kind of scary after dark. Make sure you have enough water. I know, dude.

I know to have water. It's a drought all over California. I don't go to CVS without water in my Jeep. So I just, know this is this is coming out after the 4th of July weekend when people are going to be in the out of doors but I just want to say if you're an outdoorsy person and you go out into the world and you see brown people even if it's coming from a nice place resist the urge to help because 17 motherfuckers just helped me before you and it makes me crazy, not the biggest issue, but I just want to see some trees in peace.

Thank you. I think that was a wonderful rant. I am a little worried that some very well-meaning person is going to step over a lost hiker who's dying of thirst. Because I'm just trying to be the best person I can and I just want to respect what I've learned and just listen to other voices and so

just stepping over a fallen brown person I respect your journey let's spin it again. It has landed on the Olympics. Guys, I can talk about why the Olympics are bad all day. I don't know how much time you've got. But did you know the Olympics are a national special security event?

Which means that when they take over a city, that just like Homeland Security takes over the whole city? Seems like it'd be really bad for Los Angeles, right? Let's do the whole Olympic rant all at once because you started on it. So you have this organization, Nolympics. Yeah, it's a local organization formed out of DSA LA, the Democratic Socialists of LA. organization formed out of DSA LA, the Democratic Socialists of LA. It's just a lot of the issues we care about, about immigration justice, vulnerable people

getting displaced, and we've talked to a lot of activists in places like Rio, Japan, and Korea. We've just met people that have had problems all over the world because of the Olympics. So you think the Olympics would be bad for LA? Oh yeah, for sure.

Because they're going to speed up gentrification and displacement. They're going to use it as an excuse to sweep homeless people out of neighborhoods where they live and arrest them. That's what happens wherever they go. My grandmother was a Jewish athlete who was supposed to be in the 1936 Olympics and was on the German team

and was eventually cut from the German team and was eventually cut from the team because she was a Jew. But the Nazis were kind of, you know, deciding whether or not to keep token Jews on the team. You know, I think about the Olympics a lot. And I'm going to now as well. This shit's messed up. And one thing that I like to bring up is that just a lot of the Olympic traditions come from the from the nazi olympics in 1936 which were the first ones that were ever on tv and they invented the torch relay for the 1936 olympics but they also passed the olympics in 1932 before the nazis were in charge when it was still weimar germany and then by the time it happened the whole political climate had changed so you can see how that might also be applicable now when it feels like who can predict what's going to happen in the next year, let alone by 2028 in Los Angeles.

You are bringing Nazis into a few areas that I love. I think this is part of the civility argument, is that these Nazis or these neo-Nazis sympathizers are saying, don't call us Nazis. If you call us Nazis, you're crossing a line. But then they're like putting children in cages. And it's like, well, when do we start calling them Nazis? No, I agree with that. I'm just more frustrated by the Nazi issues you're associating with things I like, like the Olympics and going to space.

I know. I'm here to take all the fun out of things you love. But the truth is that we're not against world sporting events. Mostly we're against the International Olympic Committee, is a corrupt rogues gallery of corruption Henry Kissinger's on it kind of everyone bad in history is involved not weren't involved with settlers of Catan were they I don't know are you into risk risk because I feel like... Don't take away risk. Alright. Goebbels went to the first escape room. Let's spin it again.

It has landed on immigration media coverage suggested by Jose. Four years ago, I was actually arrested in McAllen at the border, and I was put in the same jail cell as where the kids are at now. They separated us by gender, so I usually don't talk about this, but hey, we're here, so I've had two drinks. So the boys, I was with the boys clearly and then the girls and then the adults for some reason they put me

with the boys it was maybe between the ages of 5 to 14 and by the way it's a jail cell it's not a detention center it's actually a jail cell and I don't know like everything is happening so fast by the tweet that, like, we have forgotten that we have lost, what, 2,300 kidnapped kids? Where the hell are the kids, right? The executive order that Trump signed didn't guarantee that they were going to be reunited with their parents. I got to tell you, though, when I was in that cell looking at, like, the faces of the boys who walked, right, from Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador. And I remember back then in 2014, we didn't call them refugees.

Even Obama didn't call them refugees. And I think CBS News said they were like illegal immigrant children. And the thing that I could stop looking were their shoes. Because you know their shoes were like Nike, Reebok, Adidas knockoffs. Like you know how this country, like and we sell these countries like McDonald's and Starbucks and Nike shoes and then how dare them come here. Right? Like we've forgotten that we've caused all those wars in El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras and then we dare ask them why they're here. So maybe

like picking up a history book and like understanding that we are here because you were there. We are here because you were there. That's why we're here. It's way more complicated than the Statue of Liberty and the American dream and the dream of a better life. Right now, to my colleagues in the media,

because I am a journalist who just happens to be undocumented, can you all fucking stay on top of this story? Where the hell are these kids? Where are they? I'm going to tell you, though, if these kids were Canadian white kids, it would be a humanitarian crisis. Disneyland would get involved. Right?

I mean, seriously. So at Define American, the organization that I help run, we actually have a campaign called Reunite the 2300. So check out defineamerican.com. And please, these are our kids. Let's think about them. Let's spin it again. Oh, yeah, this is a good place to end it.

Let's end it on a light and unimportant note because it has landed on selfie murals. So have you seen this story about the fact that there is an influencer-only selfie mural in LA where you have to have a certain number of Instagram followers to get a picture taken there? I think that's really good. Because I think it's really important that we separate the wheat from the chaff

when it comes to selfie murals and who's allowed in front of them. There's a lot of people taking pictures in front of that Paul Smith store, in front of Rainbows, in front of hearts. Is it Paul Smith? Yeah, there's the Made in LA one. There's the Made in LA one. There's a lot of people taking those pictures and it is making it less exclusive and I think that has to change. Because it's like, what does a selfie mural mean if anyone can take a picture in front of it?

I know, we're denigrating the meaning of selfie murals by just allowing anyone to do it. Has anyone here ever had the impulse or actually followed through with the impulse to take a picture in front of a wall that is there because people take pictures in front of that wall? Has anyone been part of this Ouroboros?

Obviously. I love when I hear just a gay voice come out from the crowd. When I just hear an obviously. It makes me so happy. A gay voice from the crowd of Love Relieved can change my mind about anything. A gay voice, I was yelling about the royal wedding

and somebody yelled, but the dress! And then I was like, I forgot that there would be a dress. And now that I'm thinking about it, I'm excited to see the dress. But then, ultimately, I was like I forgot that there would be a dress and now that I'm thinking about it I'm excited to see the dress but then ultimately I was proven correct because are we ready to talk about how the dress was just okay are we ready are you ready doing oh I'll go further the dress was dull as fuck the dress was bad it was dull it wasn't cut. Thank you. This is why I came here. You're a princess. You're a princess in a sheath. How dare you.

It looked wrinkly. It did look wrinkly. That fabric never irons. And I know that was the look, but it looked messy in a way that I didn't think worked. The Meghan Markle dress didn't work. And I know this started about selfie murals, but it's been a very hard week.

And I don't care. So let's just sum up, okay? The Meghan Markle dress didn't work. Selfie murals are a sign of societal decline. Don't tell me where the waterfall is. Don't tell Tawny where the waterfall is. These are the important things. A lot of stuff you love is way, way more connected to Nazism than you realized.

Stuff that you thought was super cool that you look forward to in a deep way that helps you get through the parts of your life that aren't as good. Molly's swooping in to let you know that that shit's fucked too. to let you know that that shit's fucked too. So if you thought you were going to watch a person do a triple lutz and escape from politics for two seconds and have a pure moment of watching somebody do something incredible with the human form at a time in which human beings are treating each other like absolute shit, Molly's coming in to say,

there's one more thing that should be on your mind right fucking now. Hey, are you watching a very handsome man do incredible loop-de-loops as he dives into a pool? Hitler made this happen. That's Molly. I'll take it.

And that's the rant wheel. Let's end on a high note. and that's the rant wheel let's end on a high note obviously this has been a tough couple weeks and one thing that i was thinking about is about the way in which people like ronald romney mcdaniel who's the head of the rnc and other republicans spent a lot of time policing each other for not showing enough fealty to donald trump and not going along with the program. And what it reminded me of is the fact that there's nothing that makes a dirty cop more nervous than a clean cop, because a clean cop didn't take the money.

And a clean cop tells a dirty cop that actually that dirty cop had a choice. And maybe that dirty cop has been lying to himself about the choices he had or didn't have. But because there's a clean cop, it means you could have been a clean cop too. And Donald Trump is a human bribe. And McConnell and Ryan, and they took the money and they're getting their payout right now. And I think one of the reasons they fight so viciously is because they're dirty. And when you're dirty and when you sell your soul to get something, if you don't get it, it makes it all the worse, which is why the fight feels so much more vicious. The reason they're willing to put everything on the line is because they know how much of their soul they had to give up to be where they are and to get what they're getting from this awful person. This segment's called Ending on a High Note. And we're going to get there. So in Slate, Lily Loofboro, which is a fantastic name, Loofboro.

But she wrote a piece in Slate that I think people should read. And she talks about the Republicans and how they've behaved. And she says this. Those in power have cut off diplomatic relations with the country they're meant to govern and the party they're meant to govern with. The point of no return polarization that pundits still feebly warn against is already here. It is sad and it is true. What is happening is bad. It is obvious what they're doing.

We can call it for what it is. And I feel like a lot of us have had this feeling of like hopelessness in just the past week. But I think it's maybe good. And it's good because we're killing the false hope. You know, we're killing the hope that didn't count. The same hope that allowed us to pretend that Donald Trump couldn't win instead of what was the truth, which is that he could, and it may have been unlikely, but it was more likely than we could accept. It's the same false hope that allowed us to pretend

that Supreme Court retirements weren't looming or that Donald Trump wouldn't do exactly what he said on immigration. And so maybe what's happening right now is even now we were complacent in ways we didn't realize. And even now we actually were making the same mistake we made in 2016, which is to believe that things couldn't get worse because of how bad worse would feel. One thing that is coming out of this is the realization that we accepted a shitty politics from ourselves because we believed it was what was necessary to win and that was our own version of being dirty cops right we had to make a deal to win and the deal was here's what it means to be electable here's what you have to do to get through to the kind of people you have to win if you want to if you want to become president because you need these states you need these voters and this is what it means. You can't be for Medicare for all. It's not electable. You have to be for a compromiser. You can't be for

universal college. You have to be for something more practical, more affordable, because people will say it's not something that'll ever pass. And we made that dirty deal, and then we lost everything. And I think one of the things we're doing is throwing out that kind of politics and saying, if the electable policies led to the greatest route of Democrats up and down the ballot from the presidency to the local level, what did it mean to be electable? Maybe we should try the non-electable thing and maybe we'll win some elections. And we have to leave it there. I want to thank this incredible panel. Tani Newsom, Jose Antonio Vargas, and Molly Lambert.

Thank you guys so much for coming out. Have a great night.