Lovett or Leave It - An In-Studio Spectacular

Episode Date: May 22, 2026

Lovett’s getting married, but before he walks down the aisle, he heads into the studio, joining The Bulwark’s Tim Miller to talk ballrooms, breaking news, and Trump’s big, sloppy slush fund. Then Lovett or Leave It writers Halle Kiefer and Sarah Lazarus stop by to share some rehearsal dinner roast jokes, and for a wedding present, they gift Lovett something blue: the coveted Sapphic Token. As his dream foretold! Congrats, boss!For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast, episode title, and episode date.

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Hey, everybody, welcome to a very special Memorial Day episode of Love It or Leave It. I'm, of course, getting married to it says here the love of my life in a few days. So we will be off next week. But I want to make sure what it says here. It says here. It was funny. I thought it was funny. Do you make some edits?

So we will be off next week. But before we go, I want to make sure I caught up with my work husbands and wives before the summer kicks off. So in this episode, I am joined by love it or leave it writers, Hallie Kiefer and Sarah Lazarus, who are here to answer questions from our loyal friends of the pod. I'm also told there will be jokes at my expense, which is so unlike the two of them. Shocking to hear. I hope everything's okay. But first, I'm joined by my pal, Tim Miller of the Bullwork.

We ran through some of the biggest stories of the week, including this brand new DOJ slush fund that frankly shocks the conscience. All right. I'm here with The Bullworks Tim Miller. Tim's good to see you. It's good to see you. Somebody told me that on Pod Save America, you announced that you wanted to join the Bullwork, which I appreciate it. I haven't listened to it yet because, you know, I'm not really a weekly listener of

of America, but the word is out that you said that. I'll tell you what happened. I don't want to know any more details, actually. I just want to welcome you. Well, thanks for having me. Well, I'll tell you the details anyway. We were talking about Tina Peters, the woman that Colorado governor Jared Polis commuted the sentence of.

She had been convicted for her involvement as a government official in facilitating the 2020 election lies by Donald Trump. Donald Trump demanded her release. to Tina Peters' Twitter feed even just before her sentence was commuted. Her allies were saying that Trump should invade Colorado if Polis does not free Tina Peters. And I was surprised to find that my two Pots Save America co-Os, Tommy's view was that he couldn't get his Irish up about this topic. And John said he thought that Jared Polis made a good decision because she was a first time

nonviolent offender. And they had their arguments. And I heard them and I understand them. There's some nuance to it, but I thought, what am I doing here? I got to go join the people with the pitchforks over the bulwark. Because, as far as I concerned, lock her up, Tim. Well, you'd always be welcome, but maybe we should just do a trade then, because I took the Favreau position.

Everyone else was on your side. Everyone else was on your side, though. So a trade would be appropriate. You'd have to work every day then because I did the podcast daily, and then I could only work the two days. Yeah, but let me know. We're in the quality business over here at Potsie. Let me know if you're interesting.

Well, listen, enough chit-chat, enough banter. We've got news to get through, Tim. I'll think about it. I'll think about it. It's an interesting trade. I think they'd probably want me plus somebody else, I think, for you. If I'm being on, first-round traffic or something. But anyway, a lot going on, Wembley.

Just fuck, Webby. Webby? Webby. Webby? Webby. Oh, yeah. Wemby, boy, really syncing him from downtown. Okay, here we go.

I was told to say that. Yeah. It was a long ball. Yeah. It was like a 30-footer. It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. It was like an alien.

It was one of the most amazing things. From downtown. It was a big shot from downtown. But speaking of people just throwing out Hail Mary's, this week the Trump administration decided they're just that they're just going to go ahead and steal money from the treasury and give it to their friends. First up, we have acting attorney general, though he's not acting much like an attorney general. is Todd Blanche. That was the case was dismissed by the judge last night. Yeah, because you moved to create this fund. I didn't move. I did not move. The settlement result, Mr. Attorney General, come on. So let me, let me, so you're not going to, you're not going to submit this proposal

to any federal judge or independent. There is no judge. Any independent authority that? An independent, what does that mean? What does that mean? It means not somebody who's getting to pick five of the members who was the president's former personal attorney. That would be somebody who would be I'm the acting attorney general, okay? The fact that I used to be President Trump's lawyer is just a fact, but I'm the acting attorney general. So don't say the president's former personal lawyer will do something. The acting attorney general will do something. Mr. Attorney General, you are acting today like the president's personal attorney.

And that's the whole problem. You've got his whole, you have a whole banner of his face hanging over the Department of Justice, and you and everybody else walks under it. Nice little moment for our man, Chris Van Holland there. Tim, uh, what's his age? is Van Halel? Can we throw him in the 2028 mex? Is he young enough? I don't know, but he just got

a little speculation boner just from this traveling through the ether. What do you make of Todd Blanche saying, how dare you, sir, accuse me of being Trump's former personal attorney when I am the acting attorney, General of the States? Yeah, I think the lady doth

protest too much on it for sure with Todd Blanche. I don't know. I've been working around something on this. Love it. I'm interested to hear your take on it. Because it's so outrageous that it's kind of like, it's hard to even find the words for this idea that that Donald Trump could pretend like he had emotional distress over something and then have his own attorney general give him a slush fund of $1.8 billion that he gets to hand out to his friends without any oversight, without any knowledge. It feels like wrong to say unprecedented because we say unprecedented a lot. It feels like it's like Uber unprecedented. We need to, we need to. a German word. Yeah. To suggest it's unprecedented, it implies in the same way that like, you know, when you break a record at the marathon, you've achieved something that went to be on. There could have been a precedent. The people had thought about it before.

Right. This is a whole new thing that they just invented. And I think the right thing to do is just to call it what it is, which is reparations for whites. It's reparations for MAGA whites. That's what this is. And I think that would be a very unpopular thing to campaign on, you know, which is that like the people have been mean to my supporters in the media and, you know, they, they were targeted after they charged the capital and we didn't like that. And, you know, they were treated unfairly. And they need reparations. So we need reparations for whites and the taxpayers should pay for it. And like that's what it is. And I feel like if it was pitched that way, it would have, you know, like an 8% approval probably. I don't, I don't think that would be very popular. But maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

The idea of just whatever you call it, that we're at the point where Trump believes he can get away with just taking $1.776 billion from the Treasury and handing it over to a star chamber of his buddies to give out to insurrectionist or whoever he decides. We may never know who those people are. They seem to want to try to keep it under wraps. Some child rapists probably. Quite a few of the people who have been pardoned turned out to be child rapists. So probably a couple of them will get some money. How did we get to this point, right? Like Donald Trump would not have tried this in his first term.

It's so ridiculous and beyond the pale. And there would have been, I think, outrage, even from some Republicans, had this happened in the first term, maybe even had this happened at the beginning of this term. But at every step of the way, I think even Donald Trump has been surprised by how little resistance he's facing. And so it took a lot of failures to get to the point where he thought he could get away with It's pretty extraordinary, right? The fact that there are members of the United States Senate who said that Donald Trump

had permanently stained his reputation because of January 6th, that it was sort of a terrible and important part of his legacy, that they had lost them because of what Trump did on January 6th. We have now come full circle to the point where these are people refusing to criticize Trump for stealing money from the taxpayers to pay potential insurrectionists. And imagine waking up on January 7th and having, you know, the ghost. of MAGA future coming to you and saying not only will Trump win again, not only will the people that beat up the cops be pardoned, but there will be a fund honoring them as patriots and they will receive a taxpayer payout of $1.8 billion. It would have been hard to even

process that that was possible. I would have been very scary. I probably would have gone underground or, you know, to Uruguay or something if you told me that was happening. So you would I think augers pretty concerningly about the other things that are happening in the country. But like, if you said that to any of those who you were talking about, if you said that to John Thin, like that this is what's going to happen

and you will support it. You know, high-minded. You would have gotten high and haughty actions. Like, oh, you have tedious. Like, this is crazy. I do not support the cop attackers. We back the blue in this party. We would never do that.

We would never do something like that. They would have said you were crazy. They would have said that that's ridiculous. They would not believe that they could be that person, right? Like, I think they're, they wouldn't even be lying. Like, I think they would have sincerely believed that that was as inconceivable to us then as it would have been to them, right? But that's how, like, Trump has slowly marched these people further and further from integrity. And I think, like, even they would be surprised by the people they've become.

And, like, yes, Todd Blanche is responsible, right? He is auditioning for attorney general. And he is even more craven than Pam Bondi, if that's even, you know, or at least tied for first. Congressional majorities are often held responsible for the actions of the president, sometimes fairly, sometimes unfairly. They're often held responsible for the economic conditions, sometimes unfairly. I don't think in our lives that there has been a Congress more deserving of being held accountable for the president than this Congress. This Congress is responsible for enabling so much of what Trump has been able to do. And the fact that he is willing to do this kind of a fund speaks to just how urgent it is to kick these Republicans out. And the Congress hasn't done anything this year. So yeah, like they don't even have their own agenda. No. No, nothing. Nothing.

Speaking of members of Congress defending the indefensible, here we have Ted Cruz being cornered by, of course, TMZ. Do you think violent, convicted, and then pardoned, January 6th rioters, do you think they should be eligible for this sort of slash fund? You were not remotely concerned when Joe Biden will weaponize the Department of Justice. Gotcha. To go after his political opponents. Trump was indicted not once four separate. separate times. It was the greatest abuse of the rule of law in our nation's system.

Do you think January 6th rioters should be eligible for this money? I believe people who engage in act of violence should be prosecuted and face consequences. I believe people who engage in peaceful protests are protected under the First Amendment. I wrote an entire book on this entitled Justice Corrupted How the Left Reponized Legalist. And why are you not concerned about the abuse of violence? Because I'm concerned about this today. I know. So you won't answer the question.

You want to answer the question, sir? I have answered. You didn't. Do you think the January 6th ride is eligible for the slush fund? Thanks, Ted. Loving that TMZ energy. Saying like TMZ is like politically motivated, like, okay man, it's TMZ. Like they're just, they're just asked, that was great.

That was great. I appreciate that. They're quick house. They just want the goods. They don't care who it is. Ted announcing his pitch in his book, though, and if we are giving it as great, figure skating judges. And what he did there was absolutely appalling and offensive and

like hypocritical. For years, Ted Cruz has been high and mighty about, you know, fraud, wasted abuse and protecting the tax dollar and balancing. So, and he's a total hypocrite and phony. Amidst the walk being shouted at by TMZ, having people around you, having to defend the indefensible, being able to sneak in a book plug. It was good. I agree. That's like a quadruple axle. I think he did a good job. I agree. There's something for that. I agree.

He also did say in there that he believes people that commit violence should be prosecuted. So, you know, shout out for that statement of, I don't know, old school. I can't defend it. I don't know. Minimum. Minimum nothing fucking bullshit, like lowest bar possible. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of love it or leave it coming up.

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That's UPWRK.K.com. Now, Tim, a new poll from The Times came out and it finds Trump at not just his lowest approval rating of this term, the lowest they've ever measured his approval in either term at 37%. He has high disapproval on the economy, cost of living or immigration, the war in Iran. And for some reason, people seem to be getting the impression that the president is not focused on the issues. they care about. Here we have the president trying to prove otherwise. There will never be another building like this built for that I could. I've built a lot of great

things. But there will never be anything like this built. And what we have is the roof is dead flat with absolutely nothing but strength on it. It's very strong steel. It's drone proof and it's meant for our military to be able to stay on it. You get a view of Washington. This is all my money and Donors money. This is tax-free. Everyone's talking about they're going to give money, they're going to give money. The money they're going to give is really for the security of that and the whole White House. What happened a couple of weeks ago at the White House Correspondents said it could not happen here. One thing that we have is we don't have people living above it.

Great classical buildings are taken out of different parts of the world from Bramber and glamorous times. This is Rome. They like the flat room. Greece likes the, they call it the triangles. And you see that. I didn't see that. Greece, they call it the triangles. That's Greece, they call it the triangles.

So he's doing now briefings outside of the construction site for the ballroom. It will have a beautiful flat roof for military. That's exciting, don't you think? And a fancy bunker. And I think he was joking, but it's been really. hard to get out of my head a post that Chris Hayes shared about whether it feels like to him that Trump is building this so that he can live there forever. And I don't know.

I mean, he definitely seemed like he did not like the accommodations when he went and hid in the bunker during the Black Lives Matter protests. You know, I don't think the furnishings were to his liking. It was a little dank. And now he's building himself like an ADU. on the White House, where he can live in the bunker and, you know, it would have a nice view from the roof, wheelchair accessible, nice ballroom for his parties.

It'll be in the haunted east wing, yet another unpermitted ADU in the district of Columbia, didn't bother going through the permitting process. It is strange, right, that he is so focused on the ballroom in this place with the bunker. He doesn't seem to be behaving like a rent. which is alarming, though he is quite old. You know, what have you made of the... It's going to be done in 2028, allegedly. Right. Right.

I don't know about you. I don't know if you've done any engaged in any projects around the house. But things tend to not happen on schedule. Yeah. And so, you know, he doesn't seem what the kind of guy that wants to build something fancy for the next person, particularly if it's not a Republican, and they're going to, you know, name it the George Floyd Memorial Ballroom or whatever. And, you know, so it's just eyebrow raising as all. I don't know.

The focus on the monuments and the buildings and the territorial expansion to the exclusion of all else stories this week about how they're still menacing Greenland that he wants to make Venezuela the 51st state. He's threatening Cuba. Like he has this idea of the legacy he wants to either painting the reflecting pool. They're building that new arch that he wants to build. But he's very focused on these on these legacy items. So that's I say that I don't like to be optimistic that he just used this as yet another monument that he's like permanently altering the face of the White House and of the district of Columbia.

Man, the amount of his day that is spent on this is like pretty extraordinary. Like it really is like the big part of what he's focused on all the time. It's all he wants to talk about. A friend of mine was saying that he was prepping leaders for meetings with Trump and he's saying. said that if you ever feel like you're stuck, just asked to see the patio, the new Rose Garden patio, and somebody used it, and it totally worked. Like, they're in this tense moment. He goes, boy, you've done a beautiful job with a patio. He goes, like, come see the patio. And he goes, everybody on a tour of the fucking patio. So some of this, I do think is a little bit like,

there's nothing deeper going on. Like, why does you want to show people the thing? Like, why does a kid want to show you is the Legos he built? It's not, you know, it's not because he's a dictator. Because he's really proud of the fact that the thing is a of the space shuttle they made, you know? Yeah. I mean, that is the general. interpretation. And, you know, to get at a deeper psychological level, it's just feels like something he can control. Yeah. You know, he doesn't have control over the fact that he's ruining the country and he can't keep the straight-of-war moves open and that, you know, people don't like him, but he can, you know, he can control his little home renovation. And so that's where he'd like

to focus his mind. Speaking of his mind, where are you on the discourse this week about Trump and his age and whether Democrats are failing to make enough of an issue of it. I'm a little torn on it. I think that it's good to talk about. I think that a lot of times when Democrats talk about, I think what are the weaknesses of both Democrats when they talk about it, but mostly like they're critics when they're demanding Democrats talk about it, is they're always talking about it in like a meta sense, you know?

It's like, people should talk about this. Shouldn't they? You know, or wouldn't it be more fair if they talked about this, given the treatment of Joe Biden? And, like, that is not very convincing, right? Like, if this is true or if it's believable, what's more convincing is that, you know, somebody who is visibly deteriorating physically is embroiled in a hot war. And he might decide to do something crazy. And the more his faculties diminish, the more likelihood he could do something very damaging and that's concerning.

And, you know, I think that could resonate with people. doesn't have his kind of hand on the tiller. So I don't know. I think objectively, I was rewatching a 2016 speech of his today. And he does look different. Yes. I mean, like he has deteriorated. Like there was a period of time where I thought that kind of it was a little bit of wish casting, right? Where it's sort of like, Trump has always been crazy kind of and like old and weird and didn't like speak in complete sentences, even when he was young. And so, you know, there was a period of time when I was kind of like, I do think this is a category difference from what we sell with Biden. But I think if you go watch him from the 2016 campaign and now, like,

there's no doubt. He's going downhill. Yes, for sure. And it is, it's hard, right? It's different than Biden, right? Because Biden withered and shrunk and got quiet and withdrew from public eye, did fewer events. And it was just a sort of a different kind of aging. Trump, if you go back and watch 2016 versus now, he's kind of become this. of grand guinea version of himself, this higher arch, more dramatic version that kind of conceals the decline a little bit, right? It's all bigger. And so some of it is just he no longer has the brakes on, right? It's just it's there's, he no longer feels like he has to perform as a normal politician or kind of hide the worst elements of himself, even the fact that he's doubling

down on saying he doesn't care about gap. Right. Like he just he doesn't feel the urge to try to impress anybody or like the kinds of normals he used to think he had to kind of do an impression of a politician for. So part of it is that. But what I see with him reminds me of other people that I've seen age, which is, you know, everybody's mind wanders a little bit, especially as they get older. But it's a little bit like these thoughts are rolling down the side of a hill. And it used to be that like, yeah, he's rolling a while, but then he grabs a branch and he can hang there for a bit. now he's just kind of going down. He can never get purchased.

He never, he never like the, the claws never hook into the side of the mountain. He just kind of rolls and rolls and rolls and rolls, which is different than what it was like before. But the comparisons to Biden, I all find it's all, to your point, it is all very like meta. And there's something about Democratic pundits and kind of talkers versus Republicans, which is Democratic intellectuals view themselves as captains and Republicans view themselves as soldiers. And so Democrats say, why won't Democrats talk about Biden's age?

But Republican operatives don't say, why aren't Republicans talk about Biden and the border? They say, look at the fucking border. Oh, my God, the fucking border. And they kind of like they say, don't do as I say, do as I do kind of a thing. And we just are like my, by the way, I'm part of this problem. Like we, like on the Democratic side, the kind of progressives and liberals, like we put on our white gloves to type our little fucking missives. But we don't want to get our hands.

the muck. And I guess I just say on the on the narrowest part of your question, which is do I think that Democrats should talk more about his age? I kind of think the answer is no, actually. I think that that's motivated by this like bitterness that some people feel about the Biden situation or regret or whatever or anger about how he was treated. And like that's all fine for people to have their feelings. But like what Trump is vulnerable on right now is that he got us into the stupidest war imaginable and it's causing economic harm to people while he's enriching himself and his buddies. Yes. And so like, and that is a thing to be actually mad about, by the way, not to be like mad about as a bank shot.

Like I'm mad about this because it feels unfair because of the treatment of somebody else five years ago, right? Like you can just be acutely mad and people are, I am, about the war itself, the economic conditions themselves, the stealing itself and the corruption itself. And so to me that's more potent. I think that's right. And in Zavar is once Joe Biden wasn't on the ballot, why did Joe Biden's age matter? It mattered because it came to be a symbol of the ways Democrats were unreliable, feckless, didn't care about the country's problems, weren't willing to be honest about what they saw with their own eyes. And that got tagged. Kamala got tagged with that. Other Democrats got tagged with that. If Donald Trump's age is an issue, we should be making part of the midterm elections.

it has to be because of some things Republicans that are running did or didn't do. And if it is so clear to people that Trump's age is a huge liability that Republicans are afraid to be honest about, then they should be getting questions about it, right? Why won't you tell the truth about his age? Aren't you worried about the fact that he is erratic and losing step and maybe do something crazy and dangerous, right? Like, I can see it becoming a factor, but you have to do two moves. The age has to be so pervasive as a problem.

And then it has to be something that Republicans aren't willing to be honest about. And like, just sorry, guys, we're not there. Joe Biden and Donald Trump are not the same people and the way they're aging looks different. And Donald Trump is in our faces every fucking day doing press conferences and being his erratic self. Yes, it's worse than it was. Yes, he's in decline. But if you're just tuning in, he's the most accessible kind of active, quote unquote, active president we've literally ever had. So it's a little bit of a different situation.

Sorry to tell you that. I'm sorry. You're mad about 2020 in 2024, but that's the truth. He does have the long blinks. Yeah, the long 10-second blinks for sure. But I'll tell you something, you know what age is great, Tim? I'll tell you. Every time you and I have a conversation, it's just a great, it's just a great everlasting experience for the viewers.

Thank you being part of this very special episode of Love It or Leave It. We're kind of Benjamin Buttoning, actually. Absolutely, absolutely. And so maybe that's why we're a little bit out of touch with these kind of concerns. Yeah, yeah, because we're just getting younger, we're just getting younger and hotter. That's our move. You know. It's tough being us.

Thank you, Tim Miller for joining. You can check out Tim on The Bullwork. And you can watch Speech Center on YouTube. That's where Tim and I break down speeches. We, you know, we grade on style. We grade on substance. It's a great time. That's on the Love It or Leave It YouTube channel.

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all right without further ado i'm gonna kick it over to hallie and we're back I'm Hallie Kiever. Love at a leave it headwriter here with Love at himself and our senior sidewriter Sarah Lazarus with a few questions from the Friends of the Pod mailbag. Following that, we have a round of roast jokes about the man himself. We are recording us ahead of his nuptials. And Love it did ask us to roast him at his rehearsal dinner. It turns out we had way, way more than enough than to fill three minutes, so much. So we thought, why not share some of the sort of B-tier and or two mean jokes here with your audience. So stay tuned for some very funny jokes and love its expense.

For first some questions from the Discord. All right, I'm going to give you topics and you tell me what topic you'd like a question from. Okay. Okay. We have elections. We have wedding slash relationship stuff. We have General Lully and random. Let's do an election, a wedding, and a random.

Great. Okay. Queen Samuel says it's looking like the best option for a congressional candidate in their district is a billionaire. How do you feel about voting for billionaires these days? So I actually talked to Tom Steyer for Politative America and I pushed him on this. Like obviously people being able to use their own money to buy influence and buy access to the airwaves to tell whatever store they want. It's not less pernicious than people having to raise money from billionaires. It's the same problem, which is having a lot of money gives you more democratic power than it should.

just cut out the middleman. Right. They're cutting out the middleman. Now, that said, to me, you have to assess a candidate on the merits. The fact that there are billionaires having huge impact on our politics up to and including running for office is like a big systemic problem. But in any one race, you have to evaluate the candidates. Like, I'm considering voting for Tom Steyer. The fact that he's been able to spend $120 million or more on ads is a real mark against

the system and it's a worrying sign for for for that kind of politics but he still may be a better governor than some of the other people so to me it's like how do we address the deeper problems in the system both a tax code that allows people to protect huge amounts of wealth and then also a system of economic power in which people are able to accrue this money in the first place that's how I feel about it like I think you still have to evaluate candidates on the merits and see what they actually stand for and whether you believe they do it I don't know what else to do. My question is when you push Tom Steyer on something, do a bunch of coins fall out? Well, so you got to hold them up by the...

Oh, yeah, sure. Got to shake them. There you go. And shake them. It's like, is that a loon? God, you're rich. And then you bite to make sure it's real gold. Yeah, I just feel like I've, similarly, it's like, I certainly wouldn't not vote for someone just because they're a billionaire, but it's unfortunate that that's even a question that we have to answer. Like, but these are sort of, I don't mean like it's too late. But it is too late as much as we have a system where billionaires can exist. It's just downriver from the problem.

Yeah. And we on the Democratic side talk a lot about the way to use the tax code to resolve it. And we should. Like, we should tax people. We do a terrible job of taxing wealth. There's all kinds of ways in which billionaires can pass on their money. The stay tax has been raised to ridiculous, like, high numbers before it hits. People can pass on vast sums without them ever paying capital gain tax, all kinds of problems like that.

But long before you get there. like how is the system rigged so that all the all the ways in which a person can't possibly make that kind of money on their own is able to reap so much of the share of the reward to such a huge degree compared to all the other people in the chain that made that wealth possible both people inside their company people that are paving the roads people that are protecting intellectual property and all the other ways in which a person can't just accrue that money without a system that works for them so yeah um i'm gonna ask another election question because i'm in charge of the segment. And I think this is one that we've kind of talked about in the office. From Montgoverry, the election season, other than knowing enough to vote intelligently, thoughts about the idea that stalking the news is a spectator sport, it doesn't change anything except endangering our own mental well-being. What's the right level of engagement when so much feels toxic? So, you know, we get a version of this question all the time. And first of all, I would say there's a lot of different ways to be consuming a lot of news.

I think that if you are refreshing feeds that are made for you, that that take you through little bits of stories over and over again, that kind of you skitter across the surface of like a lava lake, you know, all the time, just sort of just dipping little toes into the evil over and over and over again. Like, I think that's very bad for your brain. But that said, like, if you want to keep up with what's happening and consume good information, and that helps you both understand what's happening, make sense of it, and by the way, like, be an advocate with your friends and your family.

we are learning more and more about just how hard it is to reach people, right? People are not consuming news. All the ways in which news organically reached people are going away. So people are getting a lot through their feeds, which they're not totally in command of. And door knocking hopefully still works. Calling people doesn't work like it used to. Texting people doesn't work like it used to. Our phones are all filled with like spam.

So it turns out like relational organizing, which is person to person and people in your life, is going to matter more and more, in which point, being an engaged and informed person and learning what's going on, having answers to people's questions is really valuable. So unfortunately, I do think if you are hyper-engaged, very engaged, like, as long as you're able to do it while protecting your mental health, I do honestly think that there's value in it because you are going to be as important a source of information for people as the news used to be. But that said, like, how much is too much? Well, how do you feel? You know, you can turn it off for a bit. You won't go to jail. Yeah, go for a walk sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

I feel like sort of reading little bits of news is sort of how we write jokes. So I feel like this past year was really difficult just because that's the intention of like flood the zone. Like that was, it was by design that it's really difficult to like wrap your mind around all these things. And I would say I'm very grateful for working, that working here, I was able to like immediately go talk to people, either people on lowly team or outside of it and sort of like get context through these things.

That being said, I do feel like this question is framed by someone who already has decided that they're not going to read the news. And I think to your point is like, I do think we have to know. And I have friends who are not tapped in the news and they have said to me like, well, you let me know what I need to care about this. And I'm like, I have terrible news. You have to care about all this. But also I do think it's like what are your topics that you can be informed on? Like, you read about this. You read about the data centers. You tell me about it. I'll read about other things. I'll tell you about it. And that's really the only way we can manage it. Like, we can't all be experts on every topic. But I do think it's like the time at which that we cannot engage has passed. And so we all have to engage. And to your point, like, it's just easier than to talk to one another. And like, not feel totally isolated by it. Totally. And I, but I will just, it's not just about quantity. Like, if you spend an hour reading seven articles, that is a better use of time than spending two hours or three hours scrolling. And don't, I sometimes think we, I myself, that applies

to me to you, like, I fool myself into believing I've caught up on the news sometimes. And, and off, because I have the rhythm of preparing for these shows, I realize like, oh, actually, you know what? I just read three headlines. And I need to click. in. And there is also, by the way, I think it's better for your mental health, too. Like, I think when you kind of get more details and more information, there's something about the, like, the perfect minimal amount of information that comes from a headline and maybe one or two lines in a summary that leads to the most anxiety possible. So just click the links. You do start and just understand how things connect to you. It's less of like noise from every angle

and more like this is maybe two big stories as opposed to 16. Yeah, that's true too. That's a good point. Moving on, we have some wedding questions. Me, Watson, wait, me, Swatson. Meese Watson wants to know what wedding tradition are you most excited to totally fuck off and not use for your impending neptials? Conversely, what is the most traditional thing

about your glorious upcoming union? What an interesting question. So we really struggled with this because you don't, like, Guy Branham, who is a friend of the show, he said this to me when we got engaged and it stuck with me the whole time, which is, oh, wow, like, you're part of this, you know, real first generation of non-straight weddings. You're going to help figure out what the new traditions are. And you immediately start sweating.

There's, like, so much pressure. And I feel like what I, what we've been trying to do is, okay, like, there are these traditions. They don't just dismiss them to do something different, but don't embrace them unless they can, have some meaning for you and find or find somewhere in between where you're taking a tradition and adapting it to to find the meaning in it. And actually, I'm, uh, we're doing some goofy shit at this wedding. Yeah, wait. That's for you to see it. I like what people mix it up. I like what feels unique to people and it doesn't feel like, oh, this is what you're, this is what one of your mothers wanted, you know what I mean. Yeah. Well, there's very little. I think we, we really tried to

kind of put our take on it and like, I wanted our wedding to be funny because we're funny. And I wanted it to be silly because we're silly. And at the same time, like I, especially as I get older, I think there's a hubris in acting as if traditions don't have value. And I think that there's something about marriage and weddings in particular that you have to, you can't get married ironically. You shouldn't. And I think there's something about the tradition. Very funny to watch so try. But like, but that.

Can you believe it? Like, like, why are you doing this in front of every? everybody. Why are you making a spectacle? What is the value of that? And really thinking about that was important. So, anyway. So you are doing a first dance with your father. Yeah, first dance with the father's. It is swing dancing, right? Well, like, listen, it's also like, you know, part of this is there's no word halfway between husband and wife, like their spouse, but that's like from a form. Like, who do you dance with? Who do you non dance with? There's like something also about like that. I would love for you to all dance together. The first like the family dance. That's cute.

Okay, so do that. Yeah, we'll do that. But anyway, but it's been fun to think about. Cute. And this is a more broad relationship. One, I think it's an interesting question. Lazars, we love your thoughts as well. This is from Gabby.

Advice Ask and Marriage Forewarning for Love It. My husband loves starting a project, but we are five months into our two-week bathroom update after a year-long quick finishing of the garage. What is too long of a time frame to live with house projects, and how would you tell your partner to get their shit together? Wow. Sarah, want to take this one? I don't know. I feel like if someone was updating my bathroom for me, I would never tell them you're taking too long.

Yeah, how in disarray is the bathroom during the upkeep? Because it's like, oh, no, we have wallpaper samples or something. That's fine. If it's like the toilet's been removed or just a hold. Sure. Yeah, that's different conversation. Yeah, sort of old style, an old style pooping situation. Just do it into that kind of whole. And poop it old style. Because last week's show, we did reference the film Mr. Baseball starring Tom Selleck. don't say we somebody did we're not complicit so in the film

Mr. Baseball there was a scene in which he sees an old school like Japanese style toilet which is when it's like the whole in the ground that kind of older style

and apparently he said in the trailer something like somebody like it's not like I'm going to need somebody to tell me how to how to go to the bathroom and then they cut to him and he's like how do I go to the bathroom but apparently they edited it because it doesn't really make sense

because he would certainly know how to pee in a hole. And so they literally dubbed it or changed it somehow. So it's not like I'm going to have to ask how to take a crap. Because I must have been in the testing. People were like, why doesn't he know how to pee in a hole? Everybody knows that a pee in a hole. So then he goes like, how do I take a crap in here? That's a story about the film, Mr. Baseball.

Did you recently watch the movie? No, I just did a lot of research. Oh, okay, great. I want to understand the context of Mr. Baseball. Oh, you know, look, it sounds like you're, her husband has unmedicated ADHD. Yeah, I was going to say, if this is my problem, my spouse could provide to me about it, I would say, you know what you're absolutely right.

So I think hopefully you'll be able to speak to your spouse, both the writer and the listeners, in a way to be like, hey, I think we've got to wrap this up. And then I do think then you can help them take it on to finish it. You can help someone across the finish line. That's nice. I guess it just depends, like, are they busy with other stuff? Are they indecisive? It seems like this could be a lot of different problems.

Yeah. Right. I mean, you know, you got to finish the project. I will say that you never truly, you never finish moving in. No one ever finishes moving in. You have to decide there's either a closet or a room or an act or something that never gets done. And that's important. I actually think that's something about life itself.

Like there's the drawer that's filled with the things you didn't unpack. There's the closet that has three boxes you never deal with. Like there's a picture frame in against a wall behind a door. Like you should never finish. That's important. I think there's something good in that. Leave that toilet in a different room. Yeah.

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given the chance to be magically present at a culturally significant point in history which one would you pick for me obviously the crucifixion of christ i i i wouldn't have a good time but I'm like, well, I've certainly heard enough about it. Obviously. Everything else would pale in comparison. And I guess I could do the birth of Christ, but I don't know. That's just a baby. Yeah.

I've seen a baby. That's just a baby that they're not letting inside. Right, yeah. It's just a baby to barn. It's just a barn. I was a baby to barn over it. What about you? Let's think about that.

It's culturally significant, which is very broad. It's like any kind of. We don't know about the insignificant cultural moments. You're right. That's kind of sad. How would you think of it? How would you even think? I guess we've been in a lot of those.

This show is made entirely of culturally insignificant moments. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. I mean, we're making movie podcast magic. We make culture here. But we reference culturally insignificant points in history.

Yes, there we go. Absolutely, really good. We give them another dignity, you know. Lazarus, where do you want to go? The first thing I thought of was C-Biscuits match race with Waradmoral, but that's not my answer. That's the first thing I thought of... You're going to go to an old horse race?

Yeah, but that's not my answer. Let me think. What would I want to observe? Can I make money using this when I come back to the present? I can't see. It doesn't say you can't. And am I interacting? Am I interacting with people or no? Yeah, I think for me, it's like if I'm in the Christa, I'm like dressed like them. Like I think you're, you're contextual. But you're not changing it. You're just observing it. Yeah, I think you're just present.

Because that seems horrible. Ooh, I do the moon landing. Would you be on the moon? Or I get to see how they faked it. Oh, wow. But then they're like, wait, but how are you there? They just look over there to see you. Because are you, are you gasping for air? Are you one of the astronauts? Are you an ex-

They would be shocked to have you. Just get him and pick off the moment. Wait, a few place you would just appear in the mood and then just be soft. I just die. I guess this is more like like a ghost of Christmas future style where you're kind of visiting but not disturbing. Yeah, that's what I'm imagining. You're just getting to kind of see it like it's on TV. Yeah.

Oh, the moon landing is a great. Yeah, that's a good one. Hmm. Because so many culturally Statific moments are horrible and sad. Right, right. I guess you do want to go

to something that wasn't televised because you can see the moon landing. Right, that's a good point. You kind of want to go old with it. It would be kind of, yeah, I think like you want to, it's interesting, like, where would I want to go? I think it's something like medieval.

I want to see something medieval. Ooh, okay. A total eclipse in medieval Europe would be fun. But then you really do want to speak. Be like, if everyone gives me $100, I'll fix it. Why is this? always where my head goes. Jewish.

She's a lot to say it. We're allowed to say it. But yeah, I think something medieval would be nice, you know, or even older, right? Like, let's go to King Arthur's court and get a vibe on that. Or see a dinosaur. Is that a culture that's a different point in history? Yes, the meteor hitting. Let's go see the meteor hit.

That's so cool. Yeah, as long as we can just, like, beat out of there. The meteor hitting was culture, for sure. Yeah. For dinosaurs, it was a big part of the culture. The most important cultural moment, I guess. I think it interesting, though, like, technically, like, just sort of is the meteor hitting the earth and killing all the dinosaurs? Culture.

Was there culture before people? I think, yes. I think, yes, I think I would say that dinosaurs had culture. I would say culture is a human invention. Hmm, really? According to Mary Webster, the culture is the beliefs, customs, arts, etc., of a particular social group, place or time. So I guess, did the dinosaurs have beliefs, I suppose, is a question. But I would say elephants do?

Yeah. That they fucking hate those people. making them ride around and stuff. I hate them. Hate them. Hate them. So I think that was a good one. All right, great.

Let's wrap this off and on to the jokes. All right, we come back. I'm going to hear some of these jokes that were either too bad or too mean to be part of my happiest time in my life. Great. And we're back. All right. I'm going to kick it over to Hallie once again. here are the roast jokes that were too hot for my parents, I guess.

Too hot for Lovett's parents. We're just going to trade off telling roast jokes that we have written. And then also, we have a gift for you at the end. I guess it's a thank you for letting us do this. Sure. And also, so we're sorry. All right. Sarah, if you would please kick us off.

I'm like genuinely nervous. Okay, yeah. Let's go. It's exciting. It's always so special when too grumpy, politically active Jews fall in love. You guys are like the Julius Nelther Rosenberg of your generation. I'm sorry, of your respective generations. Oh, that's good. That's good, because we have an age gap.

Yeah. That's good. One more from Sarah. Julius said, Phil Roseberg. I see why it got cut. Okay. It's good. It's great.

It's great. Honestly, though, no one would ever guess that you and Ari had a significant age gap. You look amazing, Lovett. Those transfusions of Ari's Gen Z blood have really paid off. All right. Lovin and Ari together are a beautiful example of queer love. And Love it by himself is a cautionary tale about overest, estimating one's widespread commercial appeal.

Wow. Okay. Really good. There's no denying that Love It is hilarious. Not on his show so much, but one time he showed us security camera footage of himself falling down in his driveway and drop me as McDonald's. I think we have a clip. This is my Zepruder film. But good. complimentary. So we're watching Love It.

He's holding a big fat bag of McDonald's. He's going back to his car. Oh, he fell down. I think he got it. Hilarious. What did I think I forgot? I went down hard. You did your wallet of your phone.

You're patting your pants. You turn around and you just eat shit. I did. I really did. Oh no. My pocket hamburger. Right. Yeah, you stuffed a couple in for later.

I'd actually never listen to Leverly or leave it before I submit the package right for the show. And I swear to God, I'm going to get around to it any day now. Nice. Yeah. Now that. Writing for Lovett is exciting because he always wants to do jokes that no other late night host would touch. For good reasons, it turns out. A lot of people don't know this,

but rats once chew through the wires and Ari's courage and that or Lovett's spot some loose french tries and dropped in there on my right. This guy knows what I'm talking about and he must be stopped. All jokes aside, Lovett somehow manages to put all jokes aside. See again, the B tier. We have better ones.

Yeah, yeah. And also I will say the ones we're doing our much meater than this. You're reading now. So I said thank you and are sorry we, if you are listening to a pod, if not why are you listening to this one first? That's insane. I guess you look to the Miller. I get that.

Okay. So we have both received a sandwich after winning a bet. Let us that a joke would work. And we were both right that it wouldn't. However, recently, Lovett has taken our suggestions to cut down or cut a joke entirely. He wanted to reward it with a gift he once saw in a dream.

That's right, ladies and gentlemen. We have brought him the Saffic token. The Saffic token. Thank you. Wow. Can you explain what the Saffic token is? Yes, I had a dream and here was the dream. Thank you.

The dream was I was in some kind of a vintage story. antique store and I picked up a tiny blue elephant and I was told or discovered or somehow came to know that this was what was called in the dream the sapphic token and when you look at it you become a lesbian. That's it. Great. Well, so I ordered it and I was afraid it wasn't at Arriving Times. So we did print out a photo if the Safic token and then we signed it if you want to open it up and show it to the cameras. It's beautiful. Because when you picture, this is what I pictured.

Is this a route right or what was it more like? I'll tell you something. I've actually, I've never really described it. I'm realizing now it was kind of an elephant Buddha. Okay. Sitting like this, but an elephant. That was what, but this, this very much evokes the vibe of the Safik token. It's sort of a kind of a kind of something, like it feels like of another time. Oh my God. And here's the Safic token itself. Wow. It is a little cute bag. This is cool. Beautiful. You're welcome and we're glad that we could make your dreams come true.

And we're excited to see your dreams come true during your wedding. Wow. Can we cut it? Let's look at that little. Can you see it? Put it like that. You can kind of see it. Here, I'll hold us behind it.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. There it is. The staffing token, everybody. Great. We did it. We did it. Thank you both.

Thank you for everything you do to make this show funny. And everything you do to stop me from making it less funny. We do our best. We do our best every week. Thank you to Bill. Thank you to Kelsey. New to the team. Thanks to Charlotte, to Dillon on the ones and twos.

And I'll see you on the other side. And I hope we don't have a situation where I'm left at the altar. We'll find out together. We'll find out together. Can't wait. Can't wait. Love it or Leave It is a cricket media production. Our show is produced by Kendra James, Bill McGrath, Kelsey Gante, and me, John Lovett.

Our production team includes Hallie Keeper, Sarah Lazarus, David Tolls, Claudia Scheng, Jay Banks, Gavin Purcell, and Matt DeGroote. And our staff is proudly unionized with the writer's Guild of America East.