Lovett or Leave It - Arraign-y Season

Episode Date: April 8, 2023

Why is this night unlike any other nights? Why, it’s a Lovett Or Leave It Passover, Charlie Brown! Lesley Stahl (Paula Poundstone) stops by to interview the Pharaoh from Exodus and probably could have followed up a bit? Zach Zimmerman rates each of the Biblical plagues on the Kinsey Scale, and his answers… might surprise you. The world’s deepest fish (Andrea Jin) ponders our complicated lives on land. Adam Conover weighs in on a potential writers' strike, and we tuck into some Cadbury eggs and chocolate covered matzah for a festive round of Hot Takes.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.-Lovett or Leave It is nominated for a Webby Award  in the Podcasts: Features - Best Live Podcast Recording category.Winners are determined through online voting which is open now through April 20th at 11:59pm PT at vote.webbyawards.com. Help us win! We hate to lose!Zach Zimmerman's book, "Is It Hot in Here (Or Am I Suffering for All Eternity for the Sins I Committed on Earth)" is available everywhere April 18th.For more Paula Poundstone, check out her podcast, "Nobody Listens to Paula Poundstone".For more Adam Conover, check out his podcast "Factually! with Adam Conover".Check out"An Evening with Andrea Jin" at Dynasty Typewriter on April 15th. 

Hello, Los Angeles. Welcome to Love It or Leave It. Forty years in the desert or else. I'm your host, the Golden Calf. We've got a great show for you tonight. Zach Zimmerman will rank the plagues on the Kinsey scale. They're all pretty stunty, though. The world's deepest fish is here. Whatever that

could mean. Adam Conover walks us through the potential WGA strike. Leslie Stahl is here, that seems. She's not. But she is. With some even more reprehensible interview subjects than Marjorie Taylor Greene and Andrea Jin and Paula Poundstone.

Join Adam, Zach, and me in tasting the different but equally delicious delectable delights of Passover and Easter. But first, let's get into it. What a week. We now go live as President Trump begins his 2025 State of the Union Address. This is a global telly. Did they take calls from? the union address. Donald Trump. That's right. On Monday, Donald Trump flew from Florida to New York for his arraignment in a Manhattan courthouse. He's just about to take off on that plane now. I think the wheels just just leaving the tarmac now. Trump on his way to New York, a different angle there.

This marks the first time in American history that someone's life has gotten worse after leaving Florida. Ahead of his arrival, New York City Mayor Eric Adams had this warning for one of the president's most unhinged supporters. People like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is known to spread misinformation and hate speech. She stated she's coming to town. While you're in town, be on your best behavior.

You're not New York's high school principal. You don't get to tell visitors to, like, shape up. He also said it while dangling a sewer rat menacingly above a vat of acid like a batman villain i don't like when the mayor acts like he's like the city's dad you're not you're just the mayor pave a road it's unclear marjorie taylor green wants to come here and get freaky that's what she should do i don't like it but it's a free country for now it's unclear if green agreed to respect the mayor's wishes.

All we know is she stepped off the plane, ripped the cork out of a bottle of scotch, and said, hey, it's January 6th o'clock somewhere. Later, Marjorie Taylor Greene took aim at the fifth character in Sex and the City herself. I compared it to what I called Gotham City. The streets are filthy, they're covered with people basically dying on drugs.

They can't even stand up. They're falling over. There's so much crime in the city. I can't comprehend how people live there. 60 minutes, but it's a full interview about how fucking stupid it is to say, as I call it, Gotham City. A, like you invented it. And B, not knowing Gotham City is New York City. Also, imagine if Adam Schiff went on Rachel Maddow and B, not knowing Gotham City is New York City. Also, imagine if Adam Schiff went on Rachel Maddow

and said, just got back from rural Tennessee. What a backwater piece of shit. What a dump of an empty wasteland. The stench is unbearable as the culture. Yuck, yuck, yuck, stinky, stinky. I mean, it's not, it's like, why is this allowed? It's inconceivable. And as we all know, Adam Schiff

is the Marjorie Taylor Greene of the left. Just had a big somebody. There's no equivalent. Anyway, as expected, Trump pleaded not guilty to 34 felony charges related to falsifying business records, and Trump's indictment went beyond payments received by Stormy Daniels, citing a $30,000 hush money payment to a former Trump Tower doorman who claimed he had information about a child that Trump allegedly fathered outside of his marriage.

A leaked transcript of a conversation with that doorman has revealed that the child was born in the summer of 1982 to a woman in New York. And wait a minute, this can't be right. He says here he hosts a topical comedy podcast tackling politics and culture. My God, that which was right. It's all happening. After the judge specifically warned the former president not to publicly comment on his case, lest he jeopardize the rule of law, Trump flew back to Florida and immediately did it anyway, giving this speech from Mar-a-Lago. And this is where we are right now. I have a Trump-hating judge with a Trump-hating wife

and family. Trump has repeatedly maligned the judge, even as his own lawyer has tried to walk it back. But President Trump has attacked the judge. Is that your team's official legal position? Do you believe the judge is biased? No, I don't believe the judge is biased. I mean, the president's entitled to his own opinion. Look, he's been the victim of a political persecution. This is how Trump, a former president of the United States, ends up with lawyers with a vibe that screams,

I'm on a billboard and I'll fight for you. You got this guy, and then you have the guy who represented Trump in impeachment who said Philadelphia. These depositions should be done in person, in my office, in Philadelphia. That's where they should be done. I love that. Remember that guy? That guy ruled. These are the lawyers the former president gets. After complaining for a while about his various legal predicaments in front of the bored Mar-a-Lago crowd, Trump went wide with it, cycling back to, you guessed it, Hillary's emails. Hillary Clinton got rid of 33,000 emails and that was okay. At some point it's like, Hillary should just call their bluff.

I know no one charged me or is even investigating this anymore, but I'll do six months if everyone promises to shut the fuck up about it. Then six months later, she's ruling that Danbury minimum security correctional facility like Adebisi. I'm done here. Put me in with the men. You know what I mean? Senator Lindsey Graham went on Fox News to make an impassioned plea for viewers to give as much money to Trump as possible. But you need to help this man, Donald J. Trump. They're trying to drain him dry.

But Lindsey, if Trump weren't so eager for people to drain him dry, he wouldn't be in this mess. mess. Meanwhile, the Washington Post reported that the DOJ has evidence that Trump obstructed their investigation into mishandling of classified documents. Allegedly, they have evidence that he personally went through cases of classified documents after receiving the DOJ's subpoena. I think there's a chance this might be on video, which I cannot wait for. That marks twice this week Trump has gotten in trouble for rummaging around in the wrong boxes. In a sign of how captive the Republican Party has become to the former president, the Republican National Convention has been moved from

Milwaukee to Rikers Island. On Tuesday, Liberal Judge Janet Protusewitz won her Wisconsin Supreme Court race, defeating former Supreme Court Justice Dan Kelly and giving liberals control of the state's highest court for the first time in 15 years. And thank you to everyone at Vote Save America who volunteered and who donated to help draw attention

and resources to that race. It really made a difference. Brian, the cheese curd drop. Release the cheese curds. Said Dan Kelly in his bitchy little concession speech. I wish that in a circumstance like this, I would be able to concede to a worthy opponent. But I do not have a worthy opponent to which I can concede.

To whom, you fuck? So you're saying you lost to someone who sucks. You must be even more dog shit at your job than everybody thought. It is amazing how much of our anti-democratic backsliding is rooted in the ego wounds of men like this. This is why Trump is the perfect avatar for the modern Republican Party.

We can't lose because it's embarrassing. I don't have a joke. It's just the reality of our fucking situation. In worse news, about 15 million people on Medicaid could lose their health insurance in the coming months now that a requirement that states not kick people off Medicaid during the COVID pandemic has come to an end. With the government declaring the pandemic over, we can finally get back to dying from every other kind of disease.

Millions of people who lose their Medicaid coverage may still be eligible for it, but have to re-enroll. And in states that have an expanded Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act, hundreds of thousands could wind up in the coverage gap with incomes that are too high to qualify for Medicaid, but too low for subsidized coverage through ACA marketplaces.

In case it wasn't clear what a fucking nightmare this is, there are currently 90 million people on Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program, roughly 20 million more than when the pandemic began. You look at the Middle Ages and think, how could a surgeon also be a barber and a dentist? In 2023, you're waiting seven months for an appointment with that person,

and he stopped taking your insurance in January. Too dark? Nobody's talking about this Medicaid story. I feel like I'm in outer space. I feel like it should be a bigger news. That's why it's here. Is it a little boring? You bet it is.

Is it less cool than the Trump arraignment? Of course it is, but that's why we're in this mess. Doms, I don't know. Don't applaud that. We don't go for claptor here. We go for dead silence. Meanwhile, Republicans in the GOP-controlled Tennessee House have moved to expel three Democratic lawmakers who participated in a gun control protest at the state capitol.

As of this recording, they successfully expelled two of them while failing on the third. It's anti-democratic. There's no precedent for it. In a letter to House members, Representative Justin Pearson wrote, If this House decides to expel me, it later did, for exercising our sacred First Amendment right to help elevate the voices in our community who want to see us act to prevent gun violence, then do as you feel you must. Now, it's hard to hear over the ambient gunfire Tennessee Republicans keep constantly filling the air with over there, but I think I got the gist of it. For those keeping score, Tennessee Republicans chose not to expel a literal pedophile, but have targeted these three legislators for the crime of thinking protesting gun violence is cool. file but have targeted these three legislators for the crime of thinking protesting gun violence is cool. Meanwhile, Kansas' Republican-controlled legislature overrode a veto from the Democratic governor to pass the Fairness in Women's Sports Act, taking over the decision from districts and

leagues to ban trans girls from sports at public schools and colleges in the state. Our political process is imperfect, but every now and then, 112 Americans put their differences aside and come together for a common cause, crushing one teenager's dreams. Because of the 106,000 high school student-athletes in Kansas, there are currently only three trans girls competing at the high school level, two of whom are graduating this year. Meaning this law currently targets one single transgender teenage girl. When reached for comment, the one teenage girl affected said, oh no, I can't be on the track team. I didn't even want to do track this year. My mom made me do it. So it doesn't even matter. I was going to quit anyway. No one cool does track at my school. Get out of my room. Because not all teenage trans girls have to be heroes. When asked earlier this year how the law would be enforced,

the Republican who introduced the legislation said it would happen during the student-athlete's sports physical. When a Democrat pressed her on whether that meant students would be subjected to a genital inspection, the lawmaker refused to answer, though the Republican legislator was wearing this ominous shirt. For those listening at home, it's a female body inspector shirt. For those listening at home, it's a female body inspector shirt. Also, it turns out for more than 20 years, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas

has been secretly accepting luxury trips from Dallas billionaire and GOP mega-donor Harlan Crow, according to a new ProPublica story. Look,

I'm not like a literary scholar, but I do know if you meet a well-dressed man named Harlan Crow and you enter into a deal with him, he is absolutely the literal devil. And you just sold your soul for access to, and this is from the article, a life-size replica of Hagrid's Hut, bronze statues of gnomes, and a 1950s-style soda fountain where Crow's staff fixes milkshakes. staff fixes milkshakes. The near annual trips, which Thomas never disclosed in an apparent violation of ethics laws, have included

international vacations on Crow's superyacht, flights on Crow's enormous private jet, a jaunt to Bohemian Grove together, and trips to Crow's own ranch in Texas and private resort in the Adirondacks. But that's basically it. I always thought it was strange that Justice Thomas' robe had a

huge Crow Holdings logo emblazoned on it like he's a NASCAR driver. Clarence Thomas is out here just breezing around the world as if he's some kind of optometrist who's crashed into Gwyneth Paltrow on a ski slope. Meanwhile, here's what Thomas had to say about himself in public in a 2020 documentary. I don't have any problem with going to Europe,

but I prefer the United States, and I prefer seeing the regular parts of the United States. I prefer the RV parks. I prefer the Walmart parking lots, to the beaches, and things like that. There's something normal to me about it. I come from regular stock, and I prefer that. I prefer being around

that. After this statement, you know this guy has never been to a non-billionaire beach, because if he had, he would know it does not get more regular stock than a public beach on a Saturday in August in the United States of America. America's beaches make Walmart parking lots look like James Bond's Monaco. He also said all this in a documentary funded by Harlan Crowe. funded by Harlan Crowe. Also this week, the University of Western Australia announced that scientists

had managed to film a snailfish in the unplumbed ocean trenches off Japan, setting a new record for the deepest fish ever recorded. Here to weigh in on that discovery, it's the world's deepest fish. Hey, John. Uh-oh, are you okay? Clearly, no. I i mean are any of us okay john trapped as we are in mortal

bodies with cruelty and injustice all around us on a doomed planet that will one day be consumed by our dying sun what can okay even mean in these conditions? Whoa. That's pretty deep. See that? Now they're in. Now they're in. In for a penny.

We got them right where we want them. They get it now. Let's keep going. What can I say, John? I'm the deepest fish. Also, Succession is in its final season, and I'm just prematurely bummed about that being over. You know what I mean?

But everything ends, I suppose. Even this. So, deepest fish. This is embarrassing. When the scientists said they found the world's deepest fish, I just assumed they meant physically. Oh, I'm also that. Physically and

also profound. They found me more than 8,000 meters below the surface. Well, that's pretty cool. You set a new record. Are you excited? Am I excited about the latest expansion of the transnational surveillance state? Oh, no. Fish know...

Fish know about that? I swam to the depths of the Pacific Ocean for privacy, John. I just wanted a quiet place to eat my plankton and reflect on the nature of truth and beauty. But I guess there's

nowhere left you can go without some stranger filming your slimy ass for a TikTok. Anyway, my question for you is... What's your question? Do you have any clove cigarettes on you? No, I don't. No one does anymore. The scientists put you on TikTok?

I don't actually know. I'm not on there. I'm more of a Tumblr girlie. Yeah, it tracks. Yeah, I just want to be left alone. Records mean nothing to me. Recognition is ephemeral. Who are we when we aren't being

perceived, you know? When we leave performance behind and confront our authentic selves on the ocean floor, no light, no reflection, nothing but your condition. That's what I'm interested in. God, you're deep.

I know. The world's deepest fish, everyone. Thanks for stopping by. Your filth and fish is murder. Alright, bye everyone. That's it. World's deepest fish. Thanks for stopping by.

That went great. In other distressing news, Rupert Murdoch and his fiancée Anne Leslie Smith have abruptly called off their engagement after just two weeks. Things fell apart after Miss Smith met a handsome, destitute traveler in the lower decks of Rupert's yacht. She had made peace with her comfortable and passionless life,

but dancing into the night, she felt something she'd never known before. Was it freedom? Was it love? It didn't matter. She'd die to feel it again. In a statement through his lawyers, Murdoch somberly explained, May, December, I hardly know her. It just goes to show, it doesn't matter how sexy, handsome, and likable you are, sometimes things just don't work out. As if that weren't enough of a terrible week for Rupert,

a judge in Delaware said he would compel Murdoch to testify in the Fox News Dominion defamation trial. Murdoch sobbing on the stand, the truth is like love I've never known either. to testify in the Fox News Dominion defamation trial. Murdoch sobbing on the sand, the truth is like love I've never known either. Experts say the last remaining obstacle to receiving Murdoch's testimony is making sure someone is waiting at the door to the courthouse to formally invite him inside.

Look out, Joe! Prominent anti-vaxxer Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has filed paperwork to run for president as a Democrat. Imagine seeing Marianne Williamson announcing she's running and thinking, you know what this primary needs? A real kook. A new bipartisan bill, the Recovering America's Wildlife Act, seeks to prevent uncharismatic animals from going extinct. Basically, this bill hopes to allocate resources once reserved for glamorous species

like polar bears and bald eagles and refocus efforts on what scientists refer to as the incels of the animal kingdom. U.S. military officials have said that since the pandemic, they've seen an increase in obesity-related health problems in their troops and this year are struggling to reach recruitment goals as three-quarters of Americans aged 17 to 24

are ineligible for military service with weight being the most common reason. Now we've finished the job, said President Xi of China, as balloons in the stratosphere began releasing their payloads of nacho cheese over every major American city. The army is considering retiring Be All You Can Be to test a new slogan, nothing tastes as good as war feels. This week, Variety reported that in 2008, oh, this is wild, CNN's Don Lemon was so steamed about his then-colleague Kira Phillips getting an assignment in Iraq over him that he tore up notes on her desk and allegedly sent her a text from a burner phone that read, now you've crossed the line and you're going to pay for it. It just goes to show you,

gay villains aren't just a Disney stereotype. They're real, and they're at the Boost Mobile picking up cyberbullying devices. What was that plan? Step one, send the text. Step two, I go to Iraq? Also, what a fucking prize. Over the weekend, Pope Francis was discharged

after a multiple-day hospitalization. He continues to blame Gwyneth Paltrow for the ski collision. NASA announced the four-person crew of the Artemis II, which will be the first crewed mission to the moon in more than 50 years. The crew includes the first person of color to go on a moon mission, as well as the first woman. It's crazy how far women have to travel for an abortion now. the first woman. It's crazy how far women have to travel for an abortion now.

Anyway, the idea to send a woman to the moon was initially proposed in 1955 by Ralph Cramden. The Artemis 2 mission will do a flyby of the moon but won't land on it. This is known as lunar edging, and astronauts believe the moon is super into it. Meanwhile, in Montana,

a train carrying Blue Moon and Coors Light derailed, spilling cases of beer across a riverbank. This just in, cool train finally derails. And finally, Parisians have overwhelmingly voted to ban rental e-scooters from the city's streets. Fun fact, they're not considered

Lime scooters unless they're not considered Lime Scooters unless they're from the Lime region of just throwing them fucking anywhere. When we come back, Leslie Stahl? And we're back!

Like you, I too was thrown off when I saw 60 Minutes was profiling, of all people, Marjorie Taylor Greene. What could we possibly learn by exploring the inner life of this awful person? We already know she does CrossFit. Plus her political opinions? Even worse. However, I reassured myself that this

is 60 Minutes. MTG is going to get the business. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Unfortunately, while our interviewer Leslie Stahl pushed back at various points of the interview, there was this moment. Democrats support, even Joe Biden, the president himself, supports children being sexualized and having transgender surgeries. Sexualizing children is what pedophiles do to children. Wow. And the segment dared to ask this question. The question for her and the country is can she expand her brash MTG brand

beyond the right-wing populist base? Is that the question? Is that the question, Leslie? Are you sure about that? Are you sure about that's why? And of course, Green smeared Democrats as pedophiles. That's what she does. That's like hiring Scarlett Johansson to be in your movie.

And when she hands in a flat, aloof performance, you get upset because you can't tell if it's magical or nothing. That's what you signed up for. Was that amazing and real? Or was it nothing? None of us knows. Well, we have some news. We here at Love It or Leave It

have unearthed several previous interviews Lovely Stahl gave, archival transcripts few knew about that relate to the very holiday of Pesach that we mark this evening. Here to help us reenact them in a segment we're calling Love It or Leave It Presents

Leslie Stahl Theater, playing the newsmaker herself, it's the incredible Paula Poundstone. It's so nice to have you on the show. It's lovely to be here. It's also unexpected. I drove basically to another country. I live in Santa Monica, so it was unbelievable getting here.

And my GPS, I would come to like a freeway, and the GPS would suggest that I just drive across it. Just, no light, no nothing. Just go, just go. It was traumatic. And then the parking garage... Talk to me. Yeah, what happened?

Well, the parking garage had the reserved spaces. The signs are in yellow. Okay, so you can't... I don't see that well to begin with, which is not a good thing to suggest when I drive here, but, and so I would pull into the space

and realize, well, fuck, there's a yellow goddamn reserve sign there. You would put it in a different color, don't you think? A contrasting color. It was like whispering. Four times I pulled into spaces. Four times.

And I don't back up that well. So, every time I'm like, motherfucker, it's another yellow reserve sign. You know, if it's your space, by God, put your fucking name on it in big letters. I gotta tell you something. This is a dream come true for me. This is awesome. By God, put your fucking name on it in big letters.

I got to tell you something. This is a dream come true for me. This is awesome. Oh, my God. You don't even have to. You want to just talk? What's up? Yeah.

What else is happening with you? Well, I did. You know, because they sent me the Marjorie Taylor Greene interview, I'd heard people talking about it. I have to say, it wasn't as bad as I actually expected it to be. Yeah, there's some nuance to it. I said that she pushed back at times. Yeah, not a lot. And I'm not sure that eye-rolling works with Marjorie Taylor Greene.

Yikes is not going to work on this woman. Yikes doesn't work with fascism. You know what I mean? You need a more powerful weapon than a yikes. You know, I'm not sure about that. I just listened to a book about Mussolini. Anything you remember from it?

Yes. Yikes was a powerful deterrent. It was Rommel's weakness. He couldn't figure out what to do with a yikes from Patton. Oh, I'll tell you something you something Stalin give him a ye gods out of there here's what I remember about Mussolini

it said that so he was killed in the end by the partisans I believe turned on him or something and he was held captive in a hotel for a little while and then they put him in a truck one day with I think three other captives and they drove him to the top of a hill and they shot, and then they put him in a truck one day with, I think, three other captives, and they drove him to the top of a hill, and they, you know,

shot them. And then they took Mussolini back down to the town square, and they hung his dead body, and the people were so angry with him that they beat the dead body with sticks, and they put a dead mouse in his mouth. I just thought that was an interesting

detail. Wasn't there also some dragging? Was there dragging involved by the legs? I can't recall any longer. Okay, here's the other thing it said in the book. I have never heard anybody else say this, but I have not really talked about Mussolini to anybody but you.

And I'm glad that you feel safe enough to share. I do. Thank you for sharing this with me. I do. This is a really developmental time for me. But at one point, they contacted his wife or girlfriend or whatever it was, and they asked her if she wanted it. And she said, I live in a small house.

I don't know where I would put it. And apparently, the Americans, I believe it was, somehow a little sliver of his brain came to America because they were looking at a sliver of his brain on a microscope slide, which I just think is funny. What are you looking for? What are you looking for? They're like, okay, asshole, yes.

There it is. There's your problem right there. The brain was where it was at the problem. Guy was a dick. Would you look at that? See, you can't look before. Like, they can't take a slice. No, famously.

If your kid is having developmental problems or maybe acts out a lot, you can't just take a slice of their brain and go, wow, the kid's an asshole. No, you gotta wait till the person slice of their brain and go, wow, the kid's an asshole. No, you gotta wait till the person's dead to look at the brain. In your hands, you can scan it. We got scannings, but not back then.

Not with Mussolini back then. They weren't MRIing Mussolini. That didn't exist. I don't think. No, no, they didn't. They didn't MRI Mussolini. You know what I'm realizing? There's that famous discovery. Albert Einstein famously said, hey, leave my brain alone. And then he died and we're like,

you're dead. We're doing what we want. Oh, did he say that? Did he say leave my brain alone? I'm remembering a book I read so much longer ago than when you read the Mussolini book. And as much as you're not confident,

you're Mussolini knowledge. I'm even less confident. You don't fill on solid ground with your Einstein knowledge. But here's my question. So when they looked at Albert Einstein's brain, they were hoping they were going to see, I'm even less confident. You don't feel on solid ground with your Einstein knowledge? But here's my question. So when they looked at Albert Einstein's brain, they were hoping

they were going to see, like, I don't know, extra stuff. Yeah. You know, like, wow, that's a brain right there. Holy shit. Yeah.

No, that's not what happened. It just looked like a normal human brain. It could have been anybody's brain. What if what we're dealing with here is the Mussolini brain and the Einstein brain

got swapped? Got mixed up. Oh, yeah. You know, a classic, like a Wacky Wednesday, like a parent got swapped. Got mixed up. Oh, yeah. You know, a classic, like a Wacky Wednesday, like a parent trap situation. No, no, Freaky Friday. Freaky Friday. Oh, you know what?

You gotta be able to... Does anyone remember the book Wacky Wednesday? There was no fucking Wacky Wednesday book. Why can't you just admit you're wrong? I don't admit, I don't do that on stage. All of a sudden, the whole crowd has to feel bad about their literacy. Someone remembers Wacky Wednesday. Shit, there was a Wacky Wednesday?

Wacky Wednesday exists. There was no Wacky Wednesday. Yes, it was. It was obviously a ridiculous grab to try to get some of that Freaky Friday money. Yeah. You know, it wasn't the right thing to do to write Wacky Wednesday. Yeah. Steven, don't google things

Pay attention Focus on how we sound I don't want you googling while we're doing this show And he's googling And now my voice doesn't sound right But they would exist right Hell yeah Who pays that guy

I guess I do Alright let's do it It's so nice to be with you This really is a dream come true for me You've got to aim much higher that guy? I guess I do. Okay. Alright, let's do it. It's so nice to be with you, by the way. This really is a dream come true for me. You know, I've been a fan of you. You've got to aim much higher. It is. You've got to aim higher. No, I'm not gonna.

This is it. Whoa. This is it for me. Come on. Well, thank you. You know, Love It was on my podcast. I was. And I had no idea you'd ever even heard of me before. You didn't say a word at the time. Yes, I did.

No, you didn't. That is fucking bullshit. No, you were very like, you were like. Yeah, smoking famously. Yeah, you were like. And he had like bodyguards with him and shit. He's like, how long do you need me for? Well, I'll tell you what.

We start at the top. We do a couple jokes. I'm out of here. How about that? All right. For those listening at home, that wasn't me. That was Paul's impression of me. No, that was...

No, that's exactly what he was like. And he was like, oh, you know, I got a couple of podcasts. I don't know why I'm doing this podcast. It's such a weird name, podcast, isn't it? Yeah, we... If you say it a lot, it just feels weird. Like the word them. If you say it enough, it just feels weird. Sure.

Them. Them. Them. It's weird, isn't it? I guess. Who came up with that them? I don't know. Probably. I think it sort of evolved. Yeah. Probably from... It used to be just, mm. Mm. Yeah, it started with mm. Yeah. A lot of stuff. Yeah. Mm. Mm of stuff Paula thank you

just reminding everybody catching you up because previously on Paula Poundstone on Love It or Leave It this was a Leslie Stahl segment some time ago the first interview we'd like to present and I know this might seem implausible is an interview Leslie Stahl did with the pharaoh from the book of Exodus

the actual pharaoh from the Passover story Paula are you ready did with the pharaoh from the Book of Exodus, the actual pharaoh from the Passover story. Paula, are you ready? I am. Pharaoh, you've got some pretty radical views and a sharp tongue, but you've somehow managed to capture the national limelight, taking on the role of a half-human demigod who rules over your kingdom with an iron fist. Tell me, in the words of your political rival,

who you've called a Bush arsonist, Moses, why won't you let my people go? Let my people go? Sounds like your average Twitter troll in my mentions, Leslie. The answer to your question is simple. The Jewish people love their jobs Building pyramids

As Jewish people famously kill it on the manual labor front And while I don't pay them and hold them against their will A lot of people are trying to cancel me Because I'm a boss and no one wants to work anymore Also, Moses is a pedophile Alrighty then Leslie Stahl, everyone. Paula Poundstone will be back.

Paula Poundstone, come on. She'll be back. When we come back, Adam Conover's here. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back! Passover celebrates the Jewish people's escape from captivity, just like the Writers Guild Association hopes to do come May 1st.

Wow, that's a stretch. When the contract between the WGA and the studios comes to an end, is that a fair comparison? Yes. And here to explain why, it's guild member and long time friend of the pod, welcome to the stage, Adam Conover. Hi, Adam. How's it going?

It's good to see you. Now, I want to talk to you about this WJ issue because I think a lot of people at home don't know what's coming and I think it's a very big deal. Yeah. Because it affects TV and that's the most important thing. But before we get to that, there's something I need to tell you. Sure, please. Which is this.

Over years of you coming on this show, I have taken a position and I've taken a position that I consider one of great nuance and intellectual honesty and one that required me to stand against the tide in a sense. And the position was this.

I understand that Elon Musk seems stupid, but he can't possibly be stupid because he's created these companies and been part of these incredible breakthroughs that I respect and admire. And therefore, while his public persona seems like that of an absolute stone-cold fucking moron, that must just be a persona, and behind the scenes, he must be smarter than that.

I've tried to hold on to that. This is so validating. Like cotton candy in a fucking hurricane. And Adam, I wanted to tell you personally, on stage, on a microphone, I cannot defend this point of view at all. Yes! Yes!

And much as I came to learn when Ben Carson ran for president that being a brain surgeon is easier than it looks, I have come to accept your position. No one could be smart and do what he has been doing to Twitter.com publicly over the last year. And I

humbly say to you, you win. I lose. You were right. I was wrong. And I'm sorry. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry I put you through that. And I'm sorry I held out as long as I did

I've been coming on this show for years and every time about 7 minutes through I start yelling at you he's just a fucking idiot and this guy would say yeah but the cars go fast over and over again it's got an iPad on the console

did you see the door fucking falls off and what's incredible again. It's got an iPad on the console, did you see? Hey, hey. The door fucking falls off. And what's incredible is since he started at Twitter, all the Tesla engineers have been saying, yeah, this is how he runs Tesla, too. It's the same shit, and that's why the door falls off

the car all the time. Does that happen to you when you hear Tesla door fall off? The thing rattles. It feels like driving a mousetrap through the city. It's just like, you remember when he took over Twitter and there was that image of the woman who was sleeping on the floor with an eye mask in her office going like, it's fun to work at Twitter.

That's the people who built your car. They are sleeping on the floor of the factory and praying that they have a job tomorrow. Every time I turn left, something rolls to the right. Something internal. Some important piece moves and I can't find it.

It's not in an area I can reach. It's like an abacus. Also, let me just say, we have important things to talk about. And we do. Let me just say, people will tell me, Tesla drivers, if people have a Tesla, that's fine. Drive your fucking car, you know?

But people say, oh, I love how fast it is. You know, I love that acceleration. I love hitting that gas and going. You know who that feels great for? The driver. You know who it doesn't feel great for? The fucking passengers in the car. There is nothing more nauseating

than getting a ride in your friend's Tesla and it's like, whoa! You're talking about a cool thing and you're just doing a weird performance. Why are you back on? Again, with you, defending the car. I'm just sharing my truth. I just, I don't, I just, I'm just gonna,

I'm gonna throw out a term here, which is called sore winner. Let's just take the fucking win. Yeah, what do you win? The horse is dead. I'm glowing. Feels so good. So let's talk about this issue.

So people at home may not know that this is going on. So basically, the WGA has been in negotiations with the studios about a contract for a while. The WGA has just gone to all the writers and said, hey, authorize us to do a strike if we need to. We're taking a strike author. And by the way, you said I'm a member. I'm also on the board of directors and the negotiating committee, I should say. Oh, I didn't know that. I forgot.

Okay, so you're in it. You're on the board of directors and the negotiating committee, I should say. Oh, I didn't know that. I forgot. Okay, so you're in it. You're on the Zooms. Yes. We were in negotiations for two weeks. And actually, we were in negotiations yesterday as we say this. But we're taking a strike authorization vote over the next couple weeks. And so just so people understand, this is a vote that basically all the members of the WGA vote. These are all the people that write all the TV shows and work on all the movies.

Not all the TV shows. Not all the TV shows. But the good ones where you can make kind of a living if you write for them, yeah. And some of the animated shows. And that's an authorization that basically gives the negotiating committee a bargaining chip to say, hey, if you don't come to the table and make a deal that works for us, we're going to have to go on strike. Correct, yeah. So what are, just so people understand,

what is at stake in the negotiation? What are the things that writers are pushing for? So the television industry and the film industry, over the move to streaming, have transformed in ways that have dramatically hurt everybody in Hollywood, from writers to directors to actors to crews. People might remember even a year and a half ago

when IATSE, the crew union, was negotiating their last contract. There were all these stories going around on social media under the hashtag IA stories about crew members working 18-hour days and being expected to come back after getting five hours of sleep and stuff like that, right?

That's one impact. On writers, there's a bunch of different things that are impacting us. One of them is that the move to shorter seasons. It used to be that a television show was 22 or 26 episodes and it would run for a couple of seasons. Right now, it's like one season of eight, maybe two years later, oh, here's six more, and then it's canceled, right? Now, that's not something we're trying to change because it's not within our power to change. But along with those changes, the studios have made the work of writing much, much more precarious for writers.

So a really good example of this is they've created something that's called a mini room, right? Which is, it's a little bit of an abstruse thing. But instead of, you know, normally, hey, we've greenlit a television show, hire a whole bunch of writers abstruse thing. But instead of normally, hey, we're a green little television show, hire a whole bunch of writers, we're going to pay them all the different rates, we negotiate with them all individually, and they're going to be here for a couple of months. With the mini room, they say, hey, we don't want to make a pilot, we just sort of want to get an idea of what the season is going to be like,

so why don't we just get four writers together, maybe three, maybe two, at the lowest rates. Everybody's making the literal minimum in the contract. And could you guys just break a season and write maybe six episodes in six weeks and just do that really quick for us? And then later, then we'll green light it later. And what ends up happening is, people are going, mm-hmm, in here. What happens is a bunch of writers have come in and given the most valuable work they can, they've broken an entire season,

they've come up with the characters and the story and all that, but they were paid the lowest possible rate, and then they're all literally let go before the show even starts. None of them goes to set, none of them goes into the edit, none of them even work in a full writer's room. They've basically been turned from

people who previously would work for maybe six months or eight months on a show and that made their year. Now they're just there for two months and they have to suddenly get another job really quickly. So that's one problem that we have. Another problem, for example, is the kind of comedy I work in

is under our contract it's called comedy variety. That basically means late night. Like what you're doing a little simulacrum of here on your podcast. I gave you such a nice win. So actually, this is a good example. One more thing for Adam to ruin, I suppose. Unbelievable.

So this is actually a really good example. Let's say you do a wonderful show here. Let's say you go to Netflix. Let's say you go to Netflix, right? as you maybe might be thinking about doing one day, and saying, hey, we'd love to take Love It or Leave It and put it on Netflix, right? And we want to shoot it. We're going to do it once a week or whatever, like John Oliver's show or something like that. If you did it on Netflix, under our current contract, no comedy variety writer has a minimum salary.

Like, they could literally pay them $1. And this is true of shows that are on the air right now. Tim Robinson's show, the Amber Ruffin show on NBC. These people are paid much, much less than anybody else because there's literally no minimum in our contract. They could pay you $1 a week. And that's just something that is true because streaming is new. And they were like, ah, it's too new.

We don't want to give you a minimum on that, right? And screenwriters who write movies have a whole other bunch of problems, which I could really, if I went into a bunch of detail. So one thing about all this, it's like, as someone who hasn't been following me closely because I stopped writing and then my career took off like a rocket ship. I mean, there you go. Being a multi-hyphenate, that's the way.

That's what we call you. Yeah. That's the way to do it. That's the way to do it. I talk, there you go. Being a multi-hyphenate, that's the way. That's what we call you. Yeah. That's the way to do it. That's the way to do it. I talk, I sit. So it's very clear that we're kind of at the tail end of like some kind of a golden age of television, right? There was a ton of shows greenlit. There's never been more working writers than there are right now at this moment.

Is some aspect of what's happening that basically it used to be, you know, 30 years ago, you had far fewer shows and far fewer writers. But if you were on one of those shows, you did a lot better. And now there's many, many more shows, much more content being created, but it's basically flatter. And one consequence of that is that there's places where people just aren't doing as well but more people get to participate there's a little bit of truth in what you're saying but i think you overrate how important the change in the business is i think we're always exiting a golden age and moving into something new you know you you could say that the late 90s was a golden age

friends and seinfeld and all these shows right there are less shows but they were so massively popular everybody in the country watched them. People made a ton of money making them, right? But then the peak TV era is what people generally call that sort of like cable beginning of streaming era where like Breaking Bad, Mad Men, that kind of stuff, right? People started to make less money, but there were more shows and they were more autistic. And now we're moving into something new, right? We're moving into this sort of mass streaming era where TV is kind of dying. It's very easy to say, well, that change in the business is what's causing things to be different.

You just have to accept that and catch up with the times. That's not actually the case because the business is always changing. What's happened is the companies have used that change in the business as an excuse to squeeze everybody, to say, hey, we're not on TV anymore. We're on streaming now, so it's all new contracts, and we're giving you a lot less because, oh, it's experimental. We don't really know hey we're we're not on tv anymore we're on streaming now so it's all new contracts and we're giving you a lot less because oh it's experimental we don't really know what we're doing but what they're really doing is their business affairs departments their hr departments are coming up with new ways to sort of twist people's contracts or or employ them more precariously in order to reduce their compensation so one of the main that you know we did a a big state of the industry report and a video uh and one of the main things we did a big state of the industry report and a video.

And one of the main things is over the last ten years, company profits have skyrocketed. They're all claiming that they're losing money. Right. That's why I asked you about that. Yeah. So I don't have the figures right in front of me, but I believe their profits have risen by something like 50 percent over just the last couple of years. They're profits, not just their revenues. And that's for like all the companies combined. You know, Warner Brothers Discovery is having a bad year because they did their stupid-ass merger, and they're taking all these write-downs and stuff. But their stock price is going up. So that's not really our concern. If you look at the entire industry, profits are going up.

Median writer pay has declined by 23% over the last 10 years. We are making less money, on average. That goes from showrunners all the way to staff writers. So when you look at that, you can't say, well, oh, it's just some little change happened in the business and we need to readjust. They figured out how to fuck us better. That was their plan, and they did a great job. And even if they didn't get together and plot a way to do it,

it's just one department and one company figures out, oh, if you structure it this way, you can fuck the writers a little bit. Structure it that way, you fuck the directors a little bit. And someone at Netflix goes, oh, that's a clever way to fuck people. Let's do that too. And it becomes a common practice, right? And they've come up with all these different ways to do it. And we're trying to plug

a bunch of those loopholes and establish standards that writers had as recently as 15 years ago and say, no, we expect this to still be a business that, since it's massively profitable, we expect to participate in that and to be able to build a fucking life. If you write for a hit show or even just a show that goes for a couple seasons or even just a show that goes for one season, if you write for one season of television, a show that has an aggregate $50 million,

$100 million budget, you should be able to live in Los Angeles. If you get to create one season of a perfect sitcom that's canceled because of fucking politics, you should be able to take that money, which is more

money than you've ever had in your whole life and live on it even when you fall into a clinical depression that causes you to have a lost year until a friend comes over to your house and says oh no what were we talking about you know this is

a moment where you have companies like Disney announcing massive layoffs. It feels like there's been a shift and basically the economy feels more precarious. What is the lesson from what the WGA is trying to do here in a broader sense, right? Like, you know, I've seen people say, oh, this is the wrong time to do this kind of a fight. But then if everything was booming, people say say like, why pick the fight now? Things are booming. So on the one hand, I understand the argument and I hear it from friends of mine that are like,

I'm really worried about this. It's not like things are so great. It feels like things aren't being greenlit like they were. It seems like we're coming out of a, it's a precarious moment in the industry. But at the same time, there's never a good moment to have a fight like this. How do you think about that,

about approaching advocating for writers and for writers' share of the work that they're doing at a time when everyone seems to be pulling back and it does seem to be a precarious moment? Well, so first of all, every three years, we renegotiate our contract every three years, and every three years they tell you that, that things are going poorly. I think one thing we have to recognize, they do, like they literally give a speech. The producers in the negotiating room do this every single time. They give a speech. Things are going really bad right now. Oh, man.

If things are going a little bit better, we could pay you some more. But we, ah, sorry, we just can't. It's like asking anybody for a raise. Ah, it's a bad time. They're always going to say that. I think we need to recognize that the reason the companies are laying people off is because their stock price goes up. They're doing it because Wall Street demands them to. They're not doing it because things are going

poorly. Their numbers are going up every single year. Netflix is a hugely profitable company that's run by a pack of idiots, but it is like... Hey, hey, hey, come on. Listen, come on. We pitched there, right? Come on, Adam. They love to hear it a pack of people that are doing their best.

They love it. They're like. Pack of people we admire and respect, even if we have differences. I mean, I'll take it. As you say, there's never a good time. The important thing is the way that the Writers Guild thinks about it, which is unfortunately unique among the Hollywood unions, is that we reserve the right to walk away from a bad deal, right? If you've ever made a deal, you know, you've signed a contract, you know that if you're like, I don't really need this job, I could walk

away from it, right? Or at least I'm willing to take the risk of walking away from it, then that's leverage that you have. And if you're like, oh God, I really got to have this. So, okay, whatever you want, you know, you have a worse deal. And so the Writers Guild says, we will walk into it knowing and letting the companies know that if we don't get the deal we need, there's a level past which we say, we are not willing to work for less than this, and we're going to tell you what that is. And if you don't want to offer us,

or at least negotiate on that point, we're going to walk. And I think that to do that is just a basic form of dignity in yourself and in the work that you have. You know, I think that's something that all workers should, yeah, all workers should feel able to do that, right? You say like, sure, I do this job for you right now, but if you don't treat me well, I'm fucking out the door. And if you do that collectively, you know, if it's just you, maybe you're out the door. And if you do that collectively, if it's just you, maybe you're out the door. But if you get your entire office together

and give that threat to your boss, maybe something gets done. And if we all take that step, the more of us take that step, the better it is for everybody. So look, a lot of people in Hollywood are really worried that if there is a strike, and that is by no means guaranteed, we're going to take our strike authorization vote and then we go back into the negotiating room and we try to get a deal done.

But we reserve the right come May 1st to call a strike if they're not willing to negotiate. Now, if there's a strike, that hurts a lot of people, a lot of people who aren't writers. And we're extremely aware of that. And I know a lot of people are trepidatious about that. But there's also a ton of people in town saying, we need you to go win one for everybody. You know, the last time we went on strike in 2007, that was in order to win union coverage of the internet. That was what that was over. The streaming platforms were starting to be conceived of. And we said, if you want to make television shows for streaming, those have to be Writers Guild shows too.

And the companies didn't want to do that. We went on strike for that, and as a result, not only did the Writers Guild win coverage of streaming, so did the Directors Guild, the Screen Actors Guild, and the crew unions as well. It is an interesting thing that just my experience... Yes, thank you! Yeah, applaud that.

It's interesting. There is a way in which the WGA, the other unions are kind of back there being like, go get them. Yeah, applaud that. It's interesting. There is a way in which the WGA, the other unions are kind of back there being like, go get them. Yeah, man. It's funny. So there's a way that unions can operate that doesn't mobilize member power that says, well, the companies have to negotiate with us

because that's labor law, and we can lobby Sacramento, and we can do social media campaigns and stuff like that. And you can get a little bit far with that. And frankly, the majority of American unions take that strategy. Because mobilizing member power, which means getting people organized, organized enough to go on strike and stay on strike if they need to, that's really, really hard. Having a union that runs democratically is really, really hard because you have to deal with people who disagree with you. And it's really scary because it takes a risk.

And so a lot of unions, they're not built that way. They didn't build that over time. The Writers Guild is the only one in the entertainment industry that has been built that way. And so I understand why not every union takes that strategy. I wish they all did

because I think it's the better strategy to have. But I'm also a member of the Screen Actors Guild. All right, calm down. Okay. But last question about this, because I do think a lot of people, like writers who are successful writers

who are part of this guild, they don't just do well. They do better than 90% of people in the country, right? Like what is the larger lesson for people that aren't writers that would kill to have a job that pays what the studio is saying is good enough? What is the lesson outside of sort of Hollywood and entertainment for somebody who's not in

this industry and thinks, oh, you're complaining about being a TV writer and only making $10,000 an episode? Boo fucking hoo for you. What do you say to people that see this fight and think that these are cushy fucking jobs for cushy fucking writers? Sure. Well, the first thing I'll say is that's obviously the stereotype. And we do have

some, you know, affluent and powerful members of our union. We have showrunners and people like that. Even those people are making less money than they used to. And they're worked to the bone. They're incredibly fatigued, right, etc, etc. But now that's the high end of the earners. The lower end of our guild, you know, I had lunch last year with a writer who had posted on Twitter that like, hey, I just got off my first Writers Guild job. And I don't know where my next job is coming from. And I'm worried I'm going to be I'm about to become homeless in Los Angeles. You know, this was someone who's a trans woman who had moved to Los Angeles, a black trans woman who had moved to Los Angeles for a job that wanted to hire someone of her background, you know, and got that first job. And that job lasted for like two months. And they wanted to be a professional television writer. This was their career. Here they are in LA. They've just

worked for a couple months. They may be qualified for health insurance for one year, right? But I don't know where my second job is coming from. I don't have a rep. Like, what do I do? I'm living in an apartment with roommates and we have rent to pay in a couple months. And that's the reality for a huge number of our members. So one of the things we talk about is how it used to be in the 90s, if you wrote on any television show, like any sitcom for one year, you could buy a house in Los Angeles. You could put down a down payment for a mortgage, right? And now people just consider themselves lucky. Oh, thank God I got health insurance again this year. So, you know, there is that stereotype. It's not true anymore. And the fact that it's not

true anymore is part of why we're fighting so hard. Now, writers earn more money than, you know, say Unite here, the local, the hotel union here in LA that's an incredible union, represents all the hospitality workers. Yes, every working TV writer makes more than those folks. Our business is enormously profitable, and writers are the people who do – we're the ones who stare at the blank page. We come up with the idea for the show. We write the script. It's like initially our work.

And so I think it's very fair, at least under the rules of capitalism, which I can argue with, but if a show is making hundreds of millions of dollars, or even if a show is hundreds of millions of dollars are spent making a show, I think a good portion of that should go to the writer, the person who's doing that foundational creative work and has spent their whole career, you know, trying to get to that point. So that's that piece of what you said. As far as what other professions can take from it, the only reason that that stereotype exists in the first

place is because writers unionized a hundred years ago. Actually, this is true. Today is the 90th anniversary of the foundation of the Writers Guild of America. Did you know that? I just found that out in the green room. It was on our social media. I was like, holy shit. And that was writers in

the, what would that have been? The 30s. Working under the studio system saying like, we're getting fucked here. We got Louis B. Mayer and all these huge studio honchos grinding us down. And so we need to get together. And the first thing that they fought for was credits. They needed accurate credits.

That was the first issue. They fought for what they needed in that time and then writers in the subsequent years fought for what they needed at that time and then because of that strong unionization rate across the whole industry this became a business where like holy shit if you're just the ink-stained wretch you know tapping on the typewriter you're not the guy with the money you can actually have some piece of the wealth of the industry. That was true of the entertainment industry only because of unions, right? It's not true of the oil industry or like Wall Street, right? I mean, sure, the bankers make money, but like the tellers don't, you know what I mean? And if you look at what, when we think of like, oh man, that was a cushy time where just a worker could really make some money, you're thinking about a unionized autoworker.

You're thinking about a unionized television writer. And so if we all take that step in our industries, look at, say, video games. I love video games. People making video games should be fucking rich. If you're a video game programmer, it makes more money than movies do. And yet, talk to these people. They're some of the most overworked, underpaid creative workers in America.

What's the difference? Unions, organizing, they have the ability. The video game industry right now is just as new as film was in the 30s. If they were to really get together and unionize and organize, holy shit, the amount of improvement they could make in their working conditions.

So that's the, and it's true of every industry. No matter, you work in a hospital, you work in a school, whatever the fuck. Yeah, I remember when I first came out to LA and I made a TV show,

I was actually like, oh wow, like you got to experience like an industry that runs on unions and there are all the different unions working together

to make like a safe and equitable working environment where you have like the union that represents the people doing the work, the union representing the writers,

the union representing all the various parts of the crew and like there are all these rules and i remember like there was one night where we were shooting really late and they were like we have 15 more seconds and then we were fucking done that isn't because of the law that was because of the union negotiation and there are certain rules on a set which i thought was really cool and other people know about this where like there are rules you can bend and then there's rules you simply can't. Oh yeah. And that is because of hard fought negotiations over many years.

And it's this whole architecture of how to make something while respecting these rules. And it was really cool to see. When I first came out here, I didn't understand that because this is a union town and a lot of what we do is unionized.

Yeah. Adam Conover, thank you so much. Thank you folks. You're wonderful. Thanks man. Everybody check out Factually. Yeah. Adam Conover everybody. You're wonderful. Thanks, man. Everybody, check out Factually. Yeah. Adam Conover, everybody.

When we come back, let's talk plagues. And we're back. It wouldn't be Passover without a well-meaning, recovering Christian to explain it. So welcome to the stage, comedian, author, and surprise Gentile, Zach Zimmerman. Hi, Zach. Surprise Gentile. Surprise Gentile. It's true. It's true. You're walking around with Zach Zimmerman. Zachariah, legally.

Zachariah. Well, it was like, is that a Jewish Zimmerman? And in the office, we're like, no, we think it's German Zimmerman. How'd you discover it? Did you Google or how do you? I don't know. Somebody Googled on the team. You know, I don't do Googling. I leave that to others. You have a memoir coming out. It's called

An Essay. Memoir An Essay. Do you think it was time for a memoir? That's why it's a memoir An Essay. It's got some perspective. Is it hot in here or am I suffering for all eternity for the sins I committed on Earth? Which one do you think it is? Rolls off the tongue. I'm suffering for the sins I committed on Earth. I think we you think it is? Rolls off the tongue. I'm suffering for the sins I committed

on earth. I think we all are. You were raised as a... I'm killing. You were raised Christian. Jesus Christ, I'm killing. Sorry. You'll get them. The strike is an important issue that we all... Is that what you want? Is that what you want? So you were raised Christian in the Bible Belt. Grew up Christian in Southern Virginia.

What do you know about Passover? It was Wednesday, right? It's a whole week. Oh, it's a week? We get a whole week of it. I didn't know that. You're in the thick of it right now. This is an important time because it's when Christ was betrayed by Judas.

That's not Passover. And yesterday, when this airs, he will be crucified. And then he rises from the dead on Sunday. Yeah, no, I know. But it's also Passover. Okay. Not that you give a fuck. I mean, there is no God, but... Not this week.

I won't hear it this week. Because Passover comes from the lamb's blood being put over... Yeah, they passed over those doors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. The way that Christ gave his blood. Right. And when you accept him as your personal Lord and Savior, you can be...

Are you ready to pray with us, John? No, I'm a bit... Your hands are very cold. Are they? What's circulation? I've been waiting in the air-conditioned, beautiful green room for seven years as Jews we get to experience the true knowledge

that God cares for us no matter who we love and would never just reduce us to our sexuality the Passover plagues however we can clock those queens right now we will in a segment we're calling let my people come I'm sorry we're sorry and that doesn't even make any sense

but once we saw it we needed to say it, like the ring. You know, we need to share it. Wait, what are we doing? I'll tell you. Okay. We're going to need your help to figure out, because you're gay. Yeah. There was a question I skipped.

You're queer. Yeah. Well, gay. Yeah. I don't want to tell you how to identify. It's 2023. What is that? It's the last remnants of a vodka soda.

Oh. That's gay. Yeah, it is pretty gay. Yeah, that's like a gay drink. It is a gay drink. Yeah. Zach, I need your help to figure out how gay each biblical plague is on the Kinsey scale. Okay. Just a reminder, the Kinsey scale runs inexplicably from zero to six,

with zero being Samson, the straightest person in the Bible, and six being, okay, six being Jesus, who had a six-pack, hung out with 12 guys, and could pull off sandals in any setting. Samson's straight? Samson's the straight one. He's the man whose power and strength was in his long, luxurious hair. You're claiming that's the pinnacle of exclusively heterosexuality?

No, that's a really important point, and that's why you're here. Betrayed by a woman? That's queer experience right there. Oh, wow. All right. Found the line. Now we're going to rate blood, the blood plague, on the Kinsey scale. What?

Yeah. Remember the plague of blood? Yeah, yeah. The plague of blood. Everything, the water turned to blood. Is this like a sex thing for you? What are we doing here? It is not a sex thing for me.

I mean, that's where your head went. I just mean that like, how gay is the plague of the rivers all turning to blood? Yes, yes, yes. Please reconsider. Vampires love it. Yep.

That's it. That's it. That's it. We all know water's straight. Water is super straight. And I think blood is queer. Blood is queer. It's dripping. It's dropping.

When you see it, you're going to have a great time. Like something big is happening. It's drama. Blood is drama. Blood is drama. Turning water into the blood. Maybe like a four. The Niles River.

Yeah, maybe like a four. Yeah, I'll give it a four. We're giving it a four. Out of six. Next up, frogs. Things to consider. You know, sometimes in Jurassic Park, they use frog DNA to complete the genetic sequence of the dinosaurs.

And that's how they got to switch their genders. Interesting. I do think frogs are gay. I think frogs are pretty gay. Just think of your famous frogs. You know, you've got Michigan J frog. Kermit. Michigan gay frog.

Kermit. Kermit. Always running from Miss Piggy. I've never seen one. Yes. He might be a little piggy. He's just running, being like, I'm gray sexual. Yeah, yeah.

It's hard being green. And Frogger. Frogger. Like, avoiding traffic to lay naked on a lily pad. Like, that's a weekend naked on a lily pad? Like, that's a weekend in Palm Springs if I ever heard one. Okay? I will, yes.

I mean, that is the way, and the way Frogger runs across the street is like somebody running across Santa Monica Boulevard. Just sort of. In this town, if you don't have a car, people see you as so strange. Yeah. I've tried to cross your street. Someone will stop like a mile away. When I first moved to LA, I got a bicycle and I was like, oh

no, that's a six. That's a Kinsey six. Let's give the frog, I think we should give the frog a five. Okay, you're reserving six? You're one of those? Well, let's see how gay these things get. Lice. Lice. Lice or pan?

Lice or pan? No! Lice love everyone except the ball. Things to consider, they will ruin a gay elementary school teacher's day because they're going to just eviscerate the entire school play.

Yeah. They'll just take out every kid. You know? That is what happens. It's like, oh, no Brigadoon this year. No, yeah.

Just doing a monologue. The one kid with alopecia gets to give a monologue. What's a good monologue? What's a good monologue? Oh, like sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Eric Berg... Yeah. Or Bergogian.

Yeah, yeah, thank you. Theater nerds. That guy saying that name was a six. That was the six we've been waiting for. People wanted to say the lice are straight. People want us to say, oh, because straight is bad. Yeah, straight is bad. Let's say a one. Want to give it a one?

Want to give it a one. Lice is straight. Next up we have flies. Things to consider when you wave them away, you go like this. That's pretty gay. I think flies live like 28 days, right? They cram a whole life into 20.

Like cramming that much life, that's the plot of the movie Weekend. Like that is the queer experience. Sure. Being able to live so much life in such a short amount of time. What do you think, a six? Maybe, but on the other hand, like they're drawn to poop. And so I want to give that to the straights a little. Maybe a five.

We're giving it a five. Let's do locusts. You're skipping God's plate. Well, there's so many of them. There's ten. Well, there's cattle. And those are straight. Cattle's a zero.

I mean, nothing's straighter than a fucking cow. What? Come on, dairy milk? Interesting. Dairy milk, eating grass, being outside from rural areas? I guess it could be lesbian. Just a step back. Just a step back.

Step back. Where are you stepping to? From where? I put my soul into a memoir. Uh-huh, a memoir. And you're asking me are livestock gay or not? Well, I would say the pestilence that would kill them all. The pestilence that killed all of them.

But I guess you're right. I was thinking more about the cows themselves. All right. We're going to do two more plagues. First of all, darkness. Things to consider. Darkness happens at night, which is also when the freaks come out. I would say that day is straight and night is queer.

Oh. Don't you agree? You would say that. Okay. I feel like, well, if you read the text, it's three days of darkness. Okay. Okay. I feel like, well, if you read the text, it's three days of darkness. Okay, okay, rabbi. You can call me teacher. Okay.

What do you think? Three days of darkness? Girl, that's just the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday after pride. Sorry. Sorry. Is that what you wanted me to do? Yes. I feel like that's what you wanted.

You brought me here to say if plagues are gay, John, love it. I leave it. I leave your segment. Finally, we have, whatever, it's a six. It's a six. Night is queer as hell. Killing of the firstborn.

Things to consider. Very middle child energy. That's true. And studies show secondborn is more likely to be queer. Every step down, get gayer as you go. And so I do think the murder of the firstborn by a malicious, vengeful gay middle child is probably true. At the same time, queer people, we get to choose our family.

Do you know this? Famously. We get to choose our family and you do you know this famously we get to choose our family are you asking if i've heard of chosen families do you know about you we get to choose you we get to choose and sometimes we have sex with them but mostly we choose but queer people get to choose their family so i think sort of killing the first born is anti like biological family in like a nice way and, final point for why this is queer, the angel of death, girl,

she wins Drag Race Season 16! Is that what you wanted? That's what you wanted. She does Pharaoh as the snatch game. You've done it. She does Pharaoh as the snatch game. Zach Zimmerman, we've done it. We've rated them all.

Thank you so much. When we come back it's Easter versus Passover don't go anywhere this is Love It or Leave It and there's more on the way and we're back I didn't mention this earlier

but I actually smeared lamb's blood all over the lintels to protect my first born Love It or Leave It guests who have all successfully survived the visitation of the angel of death give it up for the angel of death. Yay!

Give it up for the survival of our lineup. Pause while audience applauds. And pre-order Zach's book. All right. No one did. No one did. None of them did. Pre-order Zach's book.

The point is, in the meantime, here to finally pick a victory between Easter and Passover is your returning guests Andrea Jin, Adam Conover,

and Paul Poundstone. Andrea, welcome for the first time. Thank you for the first time. Did it seem fair to one of history's most iconic Jews, Jesus Christ, not to pay homage to his death and resurrection tonight, celebrating a public execution and memorizing a baby genocide? Guess Christianity

and Judaism aren't so different after all. Can I just say one thing? Preach, Paula! Yeah. I don't want to offend anybody, and this is maybe not the time of year to bring this up, but that thing about the resurrection. So Jesus is crucified.

He's dead. They put him on a slab at a cave. They put a sheet over him. They roll a rock in front of the opening of the cave. And three days later, they go back and they find the rock is rolled away. There's no body there and the sheet is folded. And they say, he is risen, he is risen. Aren't there a couple of options you might go to first? Well, it's interesting that you say that, and I think it's a really important point, and we should really focus on it.

But here's the other thing. Saying, like, we've buried this person forever, and what we've done to close this area is rolled a rock in front of it. It's a bit like Chekhov's gun. You know what I mean? It's like they didn't bury him in a hole. They didn't put him in some irretrievable location. It's a rock that was moved

that could be moved again. It was a heavy rock. It was very heavy. Like one person couldn't move it. I wasn't there so I can't speak to it but I assume it was a heavy rock. I didn't know the sheet was folded. The sheet was folded.

That's a good guess. I think it was a prank. That's what I think. I think it was a prank, and I think they thought, well, we'll just take the body, and then we'll put it back. Some college kids put it on top of the temple or whatever.

Exactly. And then when a whole industry rose up around it, they were like, shit, now we can't put it back. And I have another theory, which is, I think it was women who, or at least one woman, that took the, you know why I think that? Because the sheet was folded, exactly. It is funny to imagine that

you've just been resurrected from death. God, I would hate that. When I am done, I want to be done. The idea that, oh, one more thing. But look, it's just that you've died. You think you're out, right? Like, see you later. I'm done. And then you wake up know, you've died. You think you're out, right? Like, see you later. I'm done.

And then you wake up and you stand up and you're about to walk out of the tomb. And you turn back and realize, I should probably make the bed. No, I'm telling you, there was a prank and a woman folded the sheet. If it was a fitted sheet, I would double down on that. Because no guy knows how to fold a fitted sheet. If it was a fitted sheet, I would double down on that. Because no guy knows how to fold a fitted sheet. I'd like you each to confess now. This is Easter we're talking about?

It's Easter. Okay, okay. And linens, yes. Jesus Christ, okay. Right? I'm so lost. In the beginning. But you're right about the fitted sheet.

I don't think Jesus knew how to fold fitted sheets. Jesus did not fold a fitted sheet. Andrew, do you know how to fold a fitted sheet? A fold a fitted sheet? Yeah. Like the one with the elastic inside? Yeah. That's what we do on Easter in America.

What? Yeah, I'm from... I told Adam's secrets just very quietly. I said I'm from... I told Adam's secrets just very quietly. I said I'm from China. That wasn't... I'm trying to defend him. That wasn't charged.

My God, thank you. Crucify him! Wait, I didn't follow that. Wait, so wait. So you told him... So I was lost in the conversation because I'm an immigrant from China.

No! Okay, all right. So you had already told Adam that you were from China? Yeah. Because I thought he just outed you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not an outing thing. I don't think that's like an outing thing. And I thought he just outed you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's not an outing thing.

I don't think that's like an outing thing. And then I was trying to protect him. You were trying to protect him. John, do you want me to say we have to move on? Not until they pay you more. Oh, shit.

Wow. You've heard... All right, hold on. All right, shit. Wow. You've heard... All right, hold on. All right, listen. Listen, I've lost control of this show, and honestly, I forgot for a while I was hosting. But that's because Bullet Poundstone is here, and I've regressed.

Thank you. The point is... Thank you very much. I wish I had a parking space here, because... The point is, we've cut a bunch of segments, and that's for the best. Pretend we ate the candy and discovered that Easter candy is good

and Jewish Passover food is not. That was the conclusion we would have reached. Oh, definitely. Wait, so we don't get to eat this candy? Just start eating. You know what? At the back, he kept saying he would look forward to eating the candy.

That's true. The point is, you've heard it already, forward to eating the candy. The point is, you've heard it already, Love It or Leave It is going back on tour this summer. We're bringing the Error Store. I'm doing some promo. Sorry. We've got to move things along. Love It or Leave It is going back on the road. The Error Store is coming to San Francisco

and tickets sold out for our first show that we're adding a show on Thursday, June 22nd. If the show is sold out, why even bring it up? Because we're adding a show on Thursday, June 22nd. If the show is sold out, why even bring it up? Because we're adding a second show. Because we're adding a second show at the Palace of Fine Arts. Well, then just say the time of the second show.

Because I need people to know. You don't have to say. It's like when they go, tickets are going fast. Well, then why fucking bring it up? Because I need people in San Francisco to understand that they've already missed the first show so time is of the essence. So it's punitive.

It's punitive. People in San Francisco. Love It or Leave It as a live show is nothing if not punitive. That is the spirit that we bring to every episode.

Get your tickets at crooked.com slash events. And now for a segment we call Hot Takes. Here's how it goes. Maybe you want to bring up another show that's sold out. Maybe you want to tell people no one else can come in here tonight. Is that a good thing?

Yeah, but no, it's close enough to sold out. Tell them, love it. Tell them. No one else can come in here. This is so exclusive. This is a tight, tight group. That's it. We're done.

You made it. We're leaving. There's huge lines. Oh, my God. There's like a Trump rally. Here's how it works. We're doing hot takes. Everyone will have 30 seconds to defend

a completely indefensible position as if it were your own. You get one skip, but what you skip could be worse, like going from raining frogs to killing the firstborn. Let's see what we've got. I'm disappointed by the results of the Wisconsin Supreme Court election. I like the other guy. Let's do the next one. Let's skip it. I'm not actually excited to tour.

Cities that aren't L.'t LA have a bad habit of totally sucking. Alright, I'll take this on. Here's the thing. There are two cities. New York and LA. And I am aware that there are other places, but you can't really call them cities. Not in the traditional sense.

And I'm happy to visit those other places and experiencing what they're trying to do to do an impression of what it would be like if they were LA or New York. And I also happy to visit those other places and experiencing what they're trying to do to do an impression of what it would be like if they were L.A. or New York. And I also appreciate that they try their best to keep up with what's going on in our two real cities. Well, anyway, I think this went great. I think...

I was, you know, because originally, I really like all the places that I go, but now that I heard what you have to say, I realize that I go, but now that I heard what you have to say, I realize I'm wrong, that a lot of the places are just New York, L.A. wannabes, and, you know, no great art

museums, but, you know, maybe a crafts fair, that kind of thing. Yeah. Well, yes. I mean, I just think it's like, you know, if you go to an art fair, it's like, what percentage of the art involves spray paint? You know, that tells you kind of a lot. Yeah.

Also, not a lot of these places have cheesecake factories. Oh, I'm sorry. You don't like the best restaurant? We're off the rails. Let's do another one. The AI we have available right now is doing real, creative, groundbreaking work. And I gotta say that's true, you know? Because where else can you get your own erotic fan fiction

written to your specifications, you know? If you want to see the Easter Bunny have sex with somebody from Dungeons & Dragons, the AI will tell you, I'm sorry, as an AI language model, I'm not allowed to do that for you. And that's honestly what should happen every time you type one of your perversions into a box on the internet. Oh, because I was going to give you a link.

Oh, I feel awful. Adam Conover, thank you. Let's see what's next. It's very compelling. Build the wall between Canada and the U.S., Andrea. So, yeah, I'm from Canada. First of all, I was the fish. Do you guys...

That was earlier in the day. but uh yeah but second of all hello i am canadian and you know let's get to this thing build the wall i don't know it's better down here in america what okay that's what you guys sound like. Okay, relax. As a Canadian, you know, I don't, like, I know you guys are American. You're like, you know, you don't know what, you have it good. Okay. You just like, grass is greener. That's me. Right. You guys, it's much more real here. What's the worst thing that could happen to me in Canada? I get stabbed? Oh, ow, ow. Oh, ow.

I can't cut vegetables with a gun, you know? That was the first thing I did when I came here. I got a gun. So let's keep that greatness here and let's build the wall for pussy ass Canada.

Thank you, Andrea. That was awesome. I'm liberal. These are... Alright, let's see what's next. These are very compelling arguments. Paula, you're up. Oh. It says you're up. Oh.

It says NPR sucks. Well, it's not good. It's, uh... I don't know if you've ever owned a Prius, but you can't move the dial off of NPR. It just sucked. Yeah, uh, yeah, NPR. It just sucked. Yeah, NPR. It sucks.

You're killing her! Killing Bob Falstaff. Yeah. It's not like I can't get other jobs. All right, thank you. I think we've made you do it. Apparently there's going to be some scab work in television writing.

Open soon. All right, yeah, that's one final note on NPR sucking. If you're looking for a scab TV writer, reach out to Paula Poundstone. She'll cross the picket line and give you some A-plus material. Let's see what's next. We need more theater majors. Zach, take it away.

Life is a story. And who amongst us doesn't need to be told a tale? Most of us live, you know, sad, boring, meaningless lives. But some of others of us are called to the boards. Lured by the spotlight. Some of us are better than, you know, the untalented members of tech. Some of us are... The techs are laughing.

They get it. No. And that's why the world needs people to study. So you can get that Chekhov's gun reference from earlier. I didn't. I went along with it. So you can reference. So you know it's Eric Bergogian.

You have to study the stories of the past to understand our future. And that's why we need more, not just theater majors, more musical theater majors. People who know how to step, tap, and land. And land. Step, tap, and land. Step, tap, and land. I minored in theater.

Did you really? Yeah, RSA religion and theater. A double major in lies. Okay, we're having fun at the comedy show. Didn't you go to that school George Santos went to? Oh, yeah. All right. I've taken some time to go over the case,

and I think that Gwyneth was in the wrong. That poor optometrist can barely leave the house now, and that's her fault. All right, here's what I'll say. We've all had some fun at the expense of Terry Sanderson, the bon vivant optometrist who leaves everywhere he goes of fallen actresses and broken hearts.

It is possible that he skied in front of her just at the moment of impact, and that while I don't believe she screamed down the hill and knocked into him with such force that he flew through the air, arms akimbo, I do believe it is possible that Gwyneth Paltrow was the aggressor in the situation. There are crazier things to imagine

in this crazy world of ours than the fact that a ski instructor so enamored by the celebrity of the star of Shakespeare in Love that he went along with the story, lest we forget that he filed his report about what happened not immediately after the ski collision,

but after lunch with the Paltros. A detail I elided when I previously gave my closing remarks because I am her attorney. And another thing. Skiing. I don't know. This is what we're doing? Is it exercise?

You're wearing these boots and it's cold. Parts of you are sweating. Parts of you are freezing. It's all day. I don't think it's exercise. Because the mountain does most of the work. I don't think it's exercise. Because the mountain does most of the work. I don't know. I'd like to see her involved in other lawsuits from now on.

Where people are like, you know, Jesus, I was in the produce aisle at the Whole Foods, and fucking Gwen Paltrow just nailed me with her cart. Oh my god. at the Whole Foods and fucking Gwen Paltrow. She just nailed me with her cart. Oh, my God. Well, one of the things that did happen in the trial

is that apparently on Jimmy Kimmel, she told a story about being a klutz who's constantly running into people. And the lawyer, who was, I think, the best person they could find in Utah, was like, you can't let that in.

And the judge went along with it. But that probably pissed off the Terry Sanderson lawyers. It was like, come on, she kind of confessed on Kimmel. Wow. But I think she should do just a classic slip and fall. You know? Just kind of a whoopsie daisy. It's a theater term, the slip and fall.

Is it? No, it's a Better Call Saul term. It's a Better Call Saulism. The point being, Gwyneth Paltrow on the stand in Sanderson vs. Paltrow is the greatest performance she's given in more than a decade. It reminded me that Hollywood needs her. She's excellent. And Sky Captain in the World of Tomorrow

may not have been the right vehicle, but I don't think that's a reason to abandon the whole fucking industry. Gwyneth, put the jade eggs aside. We want you in pictures. That's it. And that's how it takes. When we come back, we'll end on a high note.

And we're back. That was crazy fast. We sat here very quickly, but everyone at home heard a mattress ad. Oh, a mattress ad. I bet that's a good mattress. Casper or purple?

No, Helix. Helix. Yeah. I bet that's a good mattress. Casper or purple? No, Helix. Helix. Yeah. Helix, the only good one. The only good one? We've always been a supporter of Helix Mattress, and we've always been at war with Casper Mattress, and we hate the people at Casper Mattress,

and we always believe in the patriots of Helix Mattress. All right. This will all have to be cut. No. We're running a business here. What are you, crazy? This is the best part. Paula Poundstone's here.

Yeah. What if... What if... Fucking legend. Best comic alive. What if in Captain Phillips with Tom Hanks after he comes off,

you know, and he's with the nurse and that it was like all improvised. What if he finished and just went, well, let's cut this? It was the greatest scene. What are you talking about? It's so real and authentic. It's what, you can't find this anywhere else.

I think, first of all, thank you for comparing the end of this comedy show to the dramatic moment where Tom Hanks breaks down sobbing at the end of the film Captain Phillips, which did make the movie. It is. It's one of those scenes that made the movie. It was great. It really was important. It was a good movie. It was a good movie. I'm the captain now.

Remember that? Was that improvised, too? No. I think, yeah. No. I think, well, yeah. It said, maybe I should be the captain. And he changed it because he knew the character. It said, what if I'm the captain for a while? But he's like, no, no, it said, maybe I should be the captain. And he changed it because he knew the character.

It said, what if I'm the captain for a while? But he's like, no, no, no, let's make it more strong. I'm the captain now. And the director's like, let's do one your way and one my way. And then they used his. In Wolf of Wall Street, when he bangs on his chest, that was made up. Huh. It's all made up by writers.

By writers. Here it is, because we all need It's all made up by writers. By writers. Here it is, because we all need it this week, the high note. I love it. My name is Lori, and I'm in Wisconsin. It's late Tuesday, and my high note is that we just elected Janet Protusewicz to the Wisconsin Supreme Court. I was also an election worker today in my village, and there was a really good turnout of over 50% of registered voters. It's a red county, but we're making strides to balance that out. So it's a good day and a better outcome.

We are going to be able to protect women's rights and hopefully be able to move to fairer maps in Wisconsin. Thanks for all that you and the Pod Save America family did to help us win this critical election. Thanks, Lovett. Hey, John, this is Nikki. My high note of the week is that after almost nine years of living in this country, I'm finally a permanent resident. I've actually been waiting for three years to send you this high note because that's how long the process took for me.

And I'm truly so privileged, grateful, and so, so happy to be in the place I am today. And I'm looking forward to my future in this country. I also have to add that I'm originally from one of those seven countries included in Trump's travel ban. And the cherry on top for me was getting my card on the exact day that Trump was indicted. Just like Taylor Swift said, karma is my boyfriend, karma is a god. Thank you and Crooked team for everything you have been doing all these years and keeping me engaged and educated. Sending you lots and lots of love. Hey, Love It and Leave It crew. My name is Michael and I live in the northern burbs of Chicago. My high note this week is that my wonderful wife ran for and was just elected to the local school district on April 4th.

She and a slate of two other candidates with her are fantastic and I'm just really excited that some interested, caring, thoughtful people are going to be involved in local politics here. And then on the same sort of vein, the next day, my wife and I joined the local Moms Demand Action and Everytown chapter along with our local state reps, Julie Morrison and Sandy Hart, to support the students of Lake Forest High School as they did a walkout to demand common sense gun reform. Lake Forest High School is just 15 minutes away from Highland Park, started the July 4th shooting and a lockdown on Tuesday for a weapon that was brought to school. And it's just really inspirational to see the students stand up for what they believe in and to demand the change they want to see. Big thank you to you and the Crooked crew.

I've been a listener since Trump's inauguration. You guys help keep it going through it all. Got my wife hooked on a couple years in, and lately she's been hooked on to Pod Save the World. So you guys got some competition, but really appreciate everything the Crooked family does. You guys are really fantastic. So thank you so much for giving us hope and keeping us going. Take care. Hey, love it. This is Frank in New Jersey. My high note for the week is that I got to celebrate my

one and only one week anniversary. After being together for 10 years, I proposed to my partner last fall and we began planning a big wedding for the fall of 2024. We got to that part of the wedding planning discussion where we decided to just elope. So we got our wedding license and asked our local mayor to marry us on the first day of spring. We gathered a few close friends and family and we walked out to the center of the New Hope-Lambertville Bridge and we were married at the state border at exactly 524, the moment of the spring equinox. And aside from it being the happiest day of my life, it was a real celebration of marriage equality as two openly bisexual men

were married by the openly gay mayor of Lambertville, New Jersey, a city that had the first gay marriage in New Jersey history. And it all happened on the equinox on this equal day and night. We planned it in six days and pulled it off, and babies are still listening to this episode. I love you. And I can't wait to spend the rest of my life with you. And I'll celebrate marrying you every chance that I get.

Thanks, everybody who sent us a high note tonight. If you want to leave us a message about something that gave you hope, call us at 323-538-2377. Unfortunately, and I really would stay all night, but not with the look Adam's giving me. That's our show. Thank you so much to Zach Zimmerman. And check out his book, Adam Conover, Paula Poundstone,

and the deepest fish, Andrea Jin. Thank you. There are 577 days until the 2024 elections next year in Jerusalem. Have a great night, everybody. is our associate producer. Hallie Keeper is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Poulavi Gunalan, Peter Miller, Rebecca Kaplan, Alan Pierre, and Chandler Dean are our writers. Bill Lance is our editor. And Kyle Seglin and Stephen Colon are our audio engineers.

Our theme song is written and performed by Sure Sure, thanks to our designers, Jesse McClain and Caroline Haywood, for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast, and to our digital producers, Zuri Irvin, Milo Kim, Mia Kelman, and Matt DeGroot, for filming and editing video each week so you can't see because this is a podcast, and to our digital producers, Zuri Ervin, Milo Kim, Mia Kelman, and Matt DeGroote for filming and editing video each week so you can. You can find those glorious videos at our YouTube page,

youtube.com slash at Love It or Leave It podcast. Who do we have to kill to get that name? Subscribe to Love It or Leave It on YouTube for access to video versions of your favorite segments and other exclusive content. Don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on IG and Twitter. And if you are as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.