Lovett or Leave It - But Epstein's Emails

Episode Date: November 15, 2025

The government shutdown is over, but the typo-ridden unraveling of Donald Trump’s Epstein coverup has only just begun! The iconic Henry Winkler stops by to celebrate turning 80 with a relaxing round of 80 Questions. The hilarious Mo Amer joins to help us rank Hollywood’s knockoff Jews and bootleg Arabs. And before we go, we rise up to bitch and moan in a brave act of resistance. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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This month, don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking gain on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp can make it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Love It. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Love It. What's up, Los Angeles? Welcome to Love It or Leave It live at Dynasty Typewriter. We have got a great show for you tonight.

Henry Winkler is here. You know I'm from 1,600 Penn. Maybe some of his other work. The hilarious Mo Amher is here. And the three of us are going to answer some questions, rank some Gentiles, and share some complaints. But first, let's get into it. What a week.

Hey, do you guys remember last week? And how funny? was. Remember how Democrats won big on election night? And then we all lived out at CrookedCon and we were riding high. Alas, we can flip that days

since Democrats were huge pussies signed back to zero. That's right, a group of eight Democratic senators struck a deal with Republicans to end the government shutdown this week without extending Obamacare subsidies as Democrats had demanded. Unbelievable. It's like they didn't even see Barack Obama's surprise appearance at CrookedCon.

Other Democrats were furious about the agreement, with many calling for a shake-up at Senate leadership. Ah, but could another Senate leader do this, said Chuck Schumer, revealing that he somehow does the wordle with pen and paper? And the senators who caved didn't make the best argument for their decision. Here's Maine, independent and guy who looks like he's named Angus King, Angus King, on Monday. In terms of standing up to Donald Trump, the shutdown actually gave him more power, Exhibit A being what he's done with SNAP and SNAP benefits across the country. So standing up to Donald Trump didn't work. It actually gave him more power.

Hey man, shut the fuck up. There's a hundred ways you could defend that vote without Sam. we tried too hard. Standing up to Trump gives him more power. He's not powered by hopes and dreams. He's a fascist, not Santa's sleigh. But it's also unclear how continuing

the shutdown would have led to a better outcome. And the truth is, the best and easiest politics is to rail against the Democrats who cave to Trump and to cry their lack of a fight, but doing it in a world where the government is open. Like how the best people, position for me to be in is to say, damn, I was really looking forward to our hike in a world where it is raining.

And I am already downloading Hades, too. There are many ways in which Chuck Schumer has been a weak leader and a weak communicator, but that doesn't mean a different leader would have produced a different result. After all, we achieved our number one goal, which was to fuck up all the flights at JFK. I don't think that's right. No, the shutdown focused the country's attention on health care and affordability and Trump is finally feeling the heat.

Trump put it best himself. So I don't want to hear about the affordability because right now we're much less. Oh, you don't want to hear about affordability? I don't want to hear about YouTube title SEO, but these are the careers we've chosen. Here's Laura Ingram of all people, pressing Trump on this.

Is this a voter perception? issue of the economy, or is there more that needs to be done by Republicans on Capitol Hill or done in terms of policy? More than anything else is to conjure by the Democrat? So are you saying that voters are misperceiving how they feel? So when I took over, you remember? Because you said Biden did that, too, because he was saying things were great. I think more than Chris.

Oh my God, sorry, continued Ingram, reaching for a glass of water. That felt like a hiccup, but the sound that it made was journalism. I'm so sorry. My apologies, Mr. President. Man, a week ago, he's like, I'm president for life. A week later, Laura Ingram's like, are you too much like Joe Biden? CNN even played Trump and Biden side by side.

People saying they're anxious about the economy. Why are they saying that? I don't know that they are saying. I think polls are fake. We have the greatest economy we've ever had. Look at the Michigan survey. for 65% of America people think they're in good shape economically. They think the nation's not in good shape, but they're personally in good shape.

The polling data has been wrong all along. Post-Obama, the country wanted old defensive white male cranks, and we're just getting it out of our system. And I was thinking about this. If we go Obama, Trump, Biden, Trump, Obama, it will be like, it'll be nicely symmetrical, like how it went James I first, Charles I, the 1st, into Regnum, Charles II, James the 2nd, in England. Are you not laughing because you don't know about England?

Are you not laughing because you're here to see Henry Winkler? In a panic, Trump has been tossing out half-baked ideas. Over the weekend, he suggested sending $2,000 tariff rebate checks to all but the wealthiest Americans, and using the rest of the revenue to pay down the debt. Sounds nice, except the new tariffs have generated about $117 billion in revenue to give half the country $2,000 would cost several times that. Tariff rebates aren't like 90,000 square foot ballrooms.

They don't just pay for themselves. Treasury Secretary and Gay Trader, Scott Besson, was asked about this idea on Sunday, and he was clearly caught off guard. The $2,000 dividend could come in lots of forms, in lots of ways, George. You know, it could be just the tax decreases that we are seeing on the president's agenda. It could be a check you receive, or it could be nothing.

Another option is nothing. But Trump's instinct here isn't wrong. He promised that tariffs would magically make life better, but all they've done is driven up costs and fucked with people's lives. livelihoods. We learned this week that the Trump administration is considering a 107% tariff on Italian pasta. As if Andrew Cuomo's November wasn't bad enough. Italian pasta makers are pleading with the administration to reverse course saying stuff like, Mama me!

107% that's a spicy meatball. And it's a me, Mario, telling my wife where to find the life insurance policy while a sobbing. Epstein alert. Epstein alert. Epstein alert. All right, folks, we got an Epstein alert. Stay in your seats. It either means he's escaped his paddock

or Epstein's back in the news. Yes, as the shutdown came to a close and Democrats returned to their natural state, complaining about how Democrats never have a message, in part because Democrats prefer talking about how Democrats never have a message instead of actually having one. The House Oversight Committee made public for the first time a massive trove of Jeffrey Epstein emails, and I hope he's dead, because if not, I think he'd die of embarrassment.

So many typos. There are 23,000 pages worth of correspondence, including emails between Epstein and his pimp girlfriend, Galane Maxwell, and one email to reporter Michael Wolf that said, plainly Trump, quote, knew about the girls. Epstein's other emails, mostly rejections from the New Yorker Shouts and Murmur section. It turns out that's actually

why he killed himself, which is kind of sad. In one 2011 email to Maxwell, Epstein wrote, I want you to realize that the dog that hasn't barked is Trump. Victim spent hours at my house with him

he has never once been mentioned. This is the main way that Trump is different from my dog. Replied Maxwell, I have been thinking about that. And replied, Atlantic Editor-in-Chief Jeffrey Goldberg, I'm sorry, why am I on this? In January of 2019, in an email to Wolf,

Epstein weighed in on the rumor that Trump kicked him out of Mar-a-Lago, saying, Trump said he asked me to resign, never a member ever. Of course he knew about the girls as he asked Galang to stop. To stop what? Just like Epstein, to leave us hanging. in response to a in response to a 2,18 email from a New York Times reporter,

Epstein said Trump feels alone and is nuts, I told everyone from day one, evil beyond belief, mad, and most thought I was speaking metaphorically, it's obvious he could crack, Stormy Daniels, lies after lies after lies. It's like I'm always saying, if only America had listened to Jeffrey Epstein. In one damning email, Epstein implies that he'll be spending time with Trump over the Thanksgiving holiday.

Was this before Epstein's plea agreement in 2008? Was this before Trump claimed he had a falling out with Epstein? Was this before Epstein had apparently stole Virginia Joufrey, who worked at Mar-a-Lago? No. According to this email, Epstein implies he was going to see Trump over Thanksgiving in 2017 while Trump was president of the United States. You can't pardon the turkeys than have Thanksgiving with

a pedophile. You have to pick one. And these emails weren't bad enough for Trump. As the shutdown ended, Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, had run out of excuses for refusing to see Democrat Adelita Grahalva, who won her special election back in September

and promised to be the 218th vote on a petition introduced by Republican Thomas Massey and Democrat Roecona to force the release of the Epstein Files by the Department of Justice. No, no, I knew what you meant by time to get shredding, said Cash Patel, awkwardly trying to hide a skateboard behind his back. ABC News reported that White House and DOJ officials met with Lauren Bobert

to try to convince her to remove her name from the Epsteinville in a last-ditch attempt to stop the vote from succeeding. But much like in the security footage of a Denver production of Beetlejuice, Bobert kept a firm hand. Bobert subsequently told reporters she is all in on the Epstein petition telling the press, I'm a co-sponsor of the bill, I'll force the vote.

Yes, like her date at a family-friendly musical, this vote is coming. On Wednesday, Grijalva took the oath of office and soon after signed the petition, and with the bill now certain to head, to the House floor, it looked like as many as 100 Republicans would add their names as well, which means Trump has to go to Plan C, loading all the Epstein files onto a speedboat in the Caribbean to blow it up by hellfire missile.

Massey explained his support for releasing the files, even though he's a Republican. You know, I vote with my party 91% of the time, which means I have agreed with the president 91% of the time. But they, when they're protecting pedophiles, when they're, when they're are blowing our budget, uh, when they are starting wars overseas. I'm sorry, I can't go along with that. Even if protecting pedophiles makes up less than 9% of the Republican agenda, it still seems like way too much. Like if subway came out and said their bread was only 9% bird shit, I wouldn't say my cold cut trio was 91% awesome. I would not eat there. All of this has left Trump.

Trump fuming and floundering in his gilded cage. His bullying isn't working on Republicans anymore. The administration is now saying the Epstein story is a hoax and a distraction from their victory, according to White House spokesperson Caroline Leavitt. It is not a coincidence that the Democrats leaked these emails to the fake news this morning, ahead of Republicans reopening the government. This is another distraction campaign by the Democrat in the liberal media. And it's why I'm being asked questions about Epstein instead of the government reopening

because of Republicans and President Trump. But also, Caroline Levitt is making the point that the shutdown permanently ruined their proof of how good the economy is. The Democrats may have permanently damaged the federal statistical system with October CPI and jobs reports likely never being released and all of that economic data released

will be permanently impaired, leaving our policymakers at the Fed flying blind at a critical period. The shutdown ate their homework. In the midst of a shutdown, Democrats perform so well in the election, it's made Republicans afraid

that their gerrymanders might actually cost them house seats. The shutdown successfully focused the entire country on Trump's failure to deliver on his promise to make the necessities of life more affordable,

and the end of the shutdown has turned the nation's focus entirely onto the administration's cover-up of the Epstein files, which can only lead us to one conclusion Chuck Schumer should resign a Senate leader and run for president

We've got a great show for you tonight Coming up, I've got questions And Henry Winkler has answers We'll be right back Hey, don't go anywhere There's more of love it or leave it coming up Love to leave it is brought to you by Laundry Sauce. The holidays are in full swing, celebrations, gatherings, cozy nights in, and all the chaos that comes with the season.

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to treat yourself or gift the world's most luxurious detergent to someone you love. That's LaundrySauce.com slash love it. And we're back. Please welcome to the stage a television icon, a living legend, the one and only Henry Winkler. Wow, look at that. Come on. He's ready with a bit. That's why he's the best. Come on.

Thank you for being here. I am so happy. How did you pick this place? It's closer to New York than it is to my house. I don't know. Yeah. But it's a nice theater. It is a nice theater. You can get Korean barbecue if you want.

You mean close? Close enough. Yeah. All I got was popcorn. Do you have Korean barbecue ever? I've had Korean barbecue once, and I had to work too hard to eat it. Do you know, I had to make it myself? Yeah.

So you recently celebrated your 80th birthday. I did. Thank you. Thank you. You know, and it was so hard for me to actually wrap my tongue around the number. People would say, so how old are you now? And I would go, yeah, he. I could not say, hey.

Huh. Yeah. Do you think it makes it less true when you don't say it? It does not make it less true. my knees are 80. Yeah. They sometimes take an Uber home on their own. Well, in celebration of this milestone,

I'm here. We're introducing a segment called 80 for 80. 80 for... 80 for... For those at home, we are... Is that me? That is a version of you of what could have been.

Yeah. This is 80 for 80 in the style of 80 for Brady. Yeah. I think we look great. No. And so we're going to try to get through as many of 80 questions as we can. In honor of your 80th birthday, Milwaukee, Wisconsin officially declared October 30th, Henry Winkler Day. Happy Days was six.

in Milwaukee. Yes, it was. They previously have erected the bronze fons. Yes. Do you have to be able to pull off a leather jacket to achieve your level

of acclaim, you think? Do you know, I was not able to wear leather in the beginning. I had to wear cloth because ABC thought I would be associated with crime. So, and it was very hard to be cool

in cloth. I am not kidding. The collar did not stay up. It's, it's very funny to imagine a time in which this was dangerous this sweet character with his leather jacket and white t-shirt

we had Rob Reiner on and Rob Reiner had played a tough in the style of the Fonz where he had worn a leather jacket but it's like I'm sorry but this is just a sweet Jewish boy on a motorcycle Well they wanted a tall Italian and they got a short Jew

that is true but I loved it I really did I loved to and you know my parents were shorter than I was and they were from Germany

and they were really not supportive at all and they would call me dumo hunt which means dumb dog what's yes because I'm very dyslexic so I didn't do well

I'm in the bottom 3% academically in America and And then that jacket, I called my parents. I said, well, Dumahunt's jacket is now in the Smithsonian. Wow. Do you ever, did you ever feel insecure about being short? I feel insecure about almost every single thing.

It is only in the last 10 years. I saw myself as a, honest to God, as a block of Swiss cheese filled with holes. and in the last 10 years I have tried to make myself into a block of cheddar. What is it? So you really felt like, so when you were,

when you turned 70, you were carrying some of the insecurities you carried when you were being called? Without a doubt. Really? Yes. And in the last decade, you shed some.

Because, you know, unless you actually do some work, you are who you are, and that doesn't go away no matter what changes, your age, your physicality, the inside pretty much stays the same. It is really up to you to make yourself more whole. And do you think you talked about being dyslexic, one of the children's book that's just

coming out, right, or one of the children's books you've written recently. Okay, can I brag? Yes. All right. The 40th, my 40th children's book came out September 30th. Thank you. I would like to say, and no pressure at all, but the holidays are coming, and I...

It's about a little duckling who dreams about being a detective and she's an environmentalist. Yeah. And the duck is not dyslexic? The duck is not dyslexic. But there's an overachiever. The writer is.

Yes. But didn't you write? Hank Zipser. Hank Zipser. 28 novels about a little boy, me. Okay, great, great story. PS 87, I went to PS 87 on 78, just up the block from where I was born and raised

and grew up on 78th between Broadway and Amsterdam. So PS 87. And I went there and I read Hank Zipser because he also goes to PS 87. You write what you know. And so I went to an award show and there was Timothy Shalame. And I went up and I said, I have to shake your hand

because you are really terrific at what you do. He said, I'm a hugger. And so he gave me a hug. I was thrilled. And then he said, the first time you came to PS-87 with Hank Zipser, I was in the fourth grade, and I was in the audience when you read the book. Oh, my God.

Wow. Little Timite. Yeah. but the boy in that book has dyslexia he he is me he is you yes so the the the the the emotionality of that little boy in the book uh is true and the comedy uh my writing partner lynn oliver uh we the comedy we made up but what but i'm good someone i'm asking is do you think your insecurities came from dyslexia like how much of a role of dyslexia well you know i took geometry for four years same course i took in regular

school and in summer school, regular school summer school, regular school summer school. And I finally passed it with a D-minus so I could go to the one college that accepted me, Emerson in Boston. And thank you, yeah, I got in. And I nearly got kicked out, but I got in. And from that day in August of 1963 that I passed with a D-minus, not one person has ever said hypotenuse to me. me. But sometimes you're figuring out which direction to go, and then you think... I know my left, because it's the arm.

I stick out the window when I'm driving. That's how I know my left. I struggle with that, too. You know what I struggle with? I have to get in the map, like, uh, on friends. I, I got to rotate that map. Whatever direction I'm facing, I got to turn the map fully around. Is that true?

Yeah. I can't read the map. boy we'd be we'd be terrible on the amazing race or would we that is I I'm fascinated by that show but I know my limitations when you have to make a doll out of leaves and have somebody who doesn't speak

your language at all nod that you've made it the doll correctly I would be I would still be there plus they have to connect their flights a lot they got to connect so when you you didn't get diagnosed with dyslexia until you were 31 I wasn't diagnosed my stepson Jed was in the third grade very verbal very funny couldn't get his homework done and we had him tested and everything they said about Jed was true about me

and then I realized oh my God I'm not a domo-hunt I've got something with a name. You want to hear an opposite story? I do. About confidence. When I was a little boy, where did you grow up? Long Island.

Okay. And I was a town. Syosset. Okay. I was very good at math, but I was not a good reader. Right. It turned out that I was seeing double some of the time, which was a hindrance. But the teacher led me to a section in the library that was,

that had the easy-to-read books. And so I went home and I told my mom, I've done it again, Mom. They brought me to the section of the library for the kids that find it easy to read. Are there any roles you wish you had taken but ended up passing on for logistical reasons or things that just didn't happen?

No, you know, I always thought that if I was supposed to do something, it would have happened. but I was offered Greece, Danny Zucco. And I thought, you know, I've done the Fonds now for 10 years. I've got to move on. So I said no, I went home. I had a ginger ale. And then John Travolta took the role.

He went home and bought a plane. Listen, here's the thing. Here's a thing. You buy a plane. Now you've got to think about what's happened. with my plane where is it being kept who's keeping an eye on it it's true it's a lot of work having a plane it's true you know yeah i could have donated it to katar but uh so you have a tv series hazardous history with henry winger yes i'm i'm on that now so i've never done this

before and and of course this is crazy because uh the show is on the history channel. It is about all of the crazy stuff that people did either for entertainment or to make money. I'll give you an example. Seven Up. Born 1927. Bubbly, refreshing, citrusy. And the tagline was, we will take the edge off because it was laced with lithium. God, what a time that was. What a time. What a time. Where people were like, oh, do you have a headache? We have this new thing, heroin. No joke. I did that.

But anyway, we did eight episodes, and they just picked us up for 30. Thank you. Now, here's the crazy thing. All I do is read on that show. I have to read copy for days. And I read The Tale of Two Cities. Well, I didn't. I read the cover.

I can't thank you do you I like that woman but you've been a you've do you have like a technique to deal with the fact that sometimes dyslexia makes it hard for you to learn lines

like what I did I would audition I would memorize as much as I possibly could I would then during the audition forget and I ad libbed and they said excuse me that is not what we wrote

I said, I'm giving you the essence of the character. It worked. Wow. Do you think it might have something to do with your raw charisma and kind of an energy that is a captivating? I was too nervous to even think about that I had raw anything. I'm not kidding. I was just fighting for my life. Do you remember starring in the short live 1994 sitcom Monty?

Oh my God. So I read the... written by one of the people who was writing for Gary David Goldberg at the time. And it was so funny, but it was so controversial. I would play Rush Limbaugh with a gay daughter. And it was so funny. And I said, I'm so sorry, I can't do it. And then I would think about it, and I called them up, and I said, well, I rethought, no, I can't do it.

And the third time I said, yes. So I learned a big lesson from this show because we did it. And then somebody at NBC saw it and said, not on my network. And so I had tickets to go to New York for the up fronts, you know, where they sell time for advertisers. And then they took my ticket away. And then we sold it to Fox. So Fox, they had the brilliant idea.

We're not going to have a gay business. daughter, David Schwimmer is going to go to college and study law, but come back and want to be a chef. That was the controversy. So instead of a gay

daughter, it was a son that was like cooking. Because that was very... People don't remember this. In the early 90s, cooking was coded as very gay. Except. I don't believe that but here it is this is the lesson when you say yes to something and uh they tried to

bastardize it go home do not do not go down that path it never works out well huh or good because you know i made this show called 600 pen but it was a good show it was a great show but the original pitch was that the that was a much like darker comedy yeah and the first lady was going to be like raunchy and cheating on the president. It was going to be a darker show. And I remember being on a notes call with some studio executives and they were like, we love it.

But have you thought about, think about this, instead of the first lady being a drunk who's sleeping with the Secret Service agents and hates her husband, what if she is a working mom trying to have it all?

And I was like, well, I don't know that that's as funny. And they were like, well, if you don't do it, I don't know they're going to make this show. And I thought, I'm going to go home and write what they're asking for. No, but I understand that. I mean, this is your dream of getting a show. You now have a shot at getting it produced.

You're trying to make yourself into a pretzel. And here's the lesson that, you know, you then put in a dog, and then you put in a best friend, and then, you know, you take out a cat. character that might be African-American, and they cancel you. And you say, but I did everything you said. And they went, that was your first mistake. That's interesting.

It's a lot to think about. It's a lot to think about it. It's true. So Happy Days airs in 1974, but it was set in the 50s. So if we were to make a show now in 2025, it would be set in the 2000s. So your character had obviously famous catchphrases. I'm gonna work here would be the Fonz catchphrases See which one of these you would take

For a show made in 2025 about the 2000s Are you ready? Yes, I am I'm deBom.com Check out the bling, Biach Talk to the hand because the face ain't listening That's gay, biotch.

That's... One final question. Yes. Did we go through 80? It felt like it. It did. Do you have... Was there anything about turning 80 that...

Have you... Do you have advice or wisdom that suddenly come to you? You turn 80 and then I'm like, I got to tell the people. If I have advice at all, I learned to be quiet about advice. I used to have advice about everything. And people would say to me, so you played a cool guy, how am I cool? How do I get to be cool? And my advice is to be authentically who you are, which is magnetic and powerful and cool.

I like that. I like that. Henry Winkler, thank you so much. I'm so out there. You're saying. Henry Winkler's going to stay. We'll be right back with Mo Ammer. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.

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and see how much you could save. That's PolicyGenius.com slash love it. Our next guest has been Mohammed in Texas. Now he's waiting patiently backstage. Please put your hands together for the hilarious Mo Amher. Hi, Mo. Hi. Thanks for being here.

Thank you for having me. Henry Winkler. So cool. You get used to it in a minute. Yeah, you're right. It's old. So... I can't believe you're 80.

You look beautiful, baby. Thank you very much. I can't believe it myself. God bless you. I definitely won't look like that where I'm 80. You don't know. Are you putting on some city miles? I think so.

Yeah, some global miles, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you've just been all over the world. I have, yes. On your tour. I did, I did. My son, and that's what keeps me young, is my little boy.

Really? Yeah. I think that would age you faster. Honestly, I've never felt worse. You're right. It's really hard, man. He always wants me to sit on the floor. I don't want to sit on the floor.

I can barely sit in this chair, to be honest with you. No, I'm doing good. and Tommy have kids, and they seem exhausted. I'm like, I'm tired, too, from watching all these streaming shows. So, Mo. You have a Peabody Award-winning Netflix show called Mo. Mm-hmm. Thank you.

In the second season, your character is Seeking Asylum in the U.S. It came out on January 30th. Correct. Are you disappointed with El Timely, it feels? yeah probably on some level you know i you always dream about making it and you always think about it and um i've always uh had a just such a love for storytelling i never thought in my life i would ever be releasing a show that is um you know depicting a palestinian family living in texas while everything is happening in the backdrop

it was easily one of the most gut-wrenching artistic things I've ever done in my life yeah this got really quiet really quickly so you just for people don't know you're Palestinian you were born in Kuwait that's correct

you were refugee living in Houston yep and so I think the question refugee living in Houston yeah I mean I think asylum fuck yeah I think the question that people have about it, though, is like, what are the best places to eat? Yes.

Ironically, some of the best sushi I've ever had in the world, Cata Robots. Oh, come on. I'm dead serious. The best Indian food I've ever had in my life. It's in Houston. It's called Agas. Incredible.

Yeah. So, like, it does seem like this is your, this show. is coming out at a time when Americans are learning more about asylum, learning more about the refugee process, like what, why, what, like, just talk about what made it such a wrenching thing to be making this show that is kind of inspired by your own experience. Sure. Well, it took me 20 years to get my citizenship, and I've always been highly, highly sensitive

about immigration and what it actually takes to get your asylum and layered with the fact that I'm Palestinian and no one really understands what that is. And certainly what's happened in the last two years. has been, you know, I don't even know how to describe it other than the devastation. And so it comes with an immense amount of responsibility, like, how are you going to tell this story and what are you going to do in a post-October 7th world? And do you even jump into that or not? And I tussled with it a lot. I went back and forth so many times, and I realized that that was like a clear trap. You know, if I did jump into that, it would, the show became

didactic and you really didn't know anything about the characters and then i had this vision of taking the family to the west bank and you know and and that would obviously not work as well and then the show would come out a year after you film so all the there's so many things they're going to unfold within that year as well so you could pretty much time yourself out in a way where it makes it irrelevant so i made it very very clear and very purposeful that i was going to focus on everything that happened pre-October 7th? What kind of world was it like? Not only as an immigrant living in Houston, but as a Palestinian, what was that world like for us as a family and kind of consistently in that? And it's really contextual, too, because if you do entertain that, then it becomes about

that event, it makes it look like this all started after October 7th, which is not true as well historically. So it was just a lot of responsibility. And coupled with the fact that it's filmed in Houston. It's the first ever narrative sitcom filmed in Houston. And I wanted Houston to be a backdrop and a character. So there's so many things to think about. And yeah, and that's why I made those choices. And even the season finale, it ends on October 6, you know, yeah. And you mentioned being, you mentioned not wanting to be didactic. And I do think that there's something that has happened in the way that politics intercedes into, like, scripted television, like fiction and there is a kind of I don't know often a lack of trust or insecurity on the part

of the filmmaker lack of trust in the audience to let a story just be a story like there's always now a moment in some kind of a piece of culture where the main character kind of turns to the camera and says let me tell you what the lesson is of all this right is that it's hard to avoid right that feeling like I need to tell people what I'm trying to tell them yeah it is hard to avoid but in this scenario it wasn't like i did entertain it i did you know uh in our very small writing room and we did try to have these we did absolutely have very difficult conversations and we had to i think any writing room any creative situation you you must do that to get to whatever story you want to tell and this situation is based off of my life so i knew what the

foundation of this was so i every time i entertained it it definitely felt like it was taking away from the whole story is at all. We lost everything about each character's identity, what they were going through, what they were filtering through their emotions. And I think the best way to tell any story, really, is to focus on each character and allow them to grow throughout the season.

Also, on top of that, I'm a comedy. I'm making a comedy show. This is not, you know, a drama. So it's very, very, it's a slippery slope. If you get in there, it felt like it was absolutely the wrong move, and it would be indulgent if I did that and become maybe from my ego, not really from what the story is needing. That's good.

There's a lot of people that think, oh, this is indulgent. I like how it feels. No, I did. I did it at all. It was really, really painful. It was super painful. And I'm recreating memories with, you know, my grandmother is no longer here, or my uncle is no longer here, or my father is no longer here.

I mean, the amount of times that I had to walk away, you know, I was directing, I was acting, I was show running. I was like doing all these, wearing all these hats. and inside I'm just dying so many times. I've probably died. I don't know how many times, but it felt like I died like a dozen times making the show. And one thing you've talked about too is that being Palestinian is such a,

it requires somehow being first, right? Like you don't just get to be leading a sitcom. You're a Palestinian leading a sitcom. And I'm wondering if you feel like you're going to be on the other side of that feeling. Like you'll get to just be a funny person or if you'll if you feel like that somehow that's kind of, I don't know, that the culture makes it so central. I got to say, this is the best interview I've had in years, to be honest. Most people don't know how to ask these questions, but I absolutely feel that way.

It's very frustrating. Early on in my career, it's always like Arab American comedian or Muslim comedian. It's all these attached, you know, things to who I actually am. But I do feel like it was an important, like, an honesty thing with me in the audience. It was like, this is who I am. this is where I come from, because it's always these questions are, oh, you wait, you're born in Kuwait, though, but aren't you Kuwaiti? Like, no, I'm not.

It's where your parents come from. It's an ancestral thing. It's just, oh, okay, so then you're Palestinian, so you go to Palestine? No, no, I'm not. I can't go back to Palestine. All these questions would arise. So it became, like, this trust between me and the audience. You have to know where I come from.

You know the whole story. I'm also a Texan, you know, and just kind of covering all of that. And now I do feel like I'm on the other side of that. And quite frankly, what's happened in the last few years, I've never felt freer in my life. This is the most free creatively I've ever been. It's always, you know, I'm kind of walking on eggshells I felt like in certain scenarios. And I feel so relieved that I did go through that. And I'm so grateful, you know, that I stuck to my guns.

and I really just went through that, you know, it felt like a fire, you know. It really did. But I do feel like I'm on the other side of that. It's beautiful. Henry, help me out. It's a rough crowd. No, I think they're just listening.

I think they're just listening. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. That's all I wanted to hear. Yeah, because you... Can I just say one thing?

Do I have to use my mic? Yeah. Okay. So I just want to say one thing. You, in what you just said, you said, I stuck to my guns. And ultimately, that is one of the lessons of living on this planet. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.

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That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com slash love it. Code love it at checkout. There's one thing that Jewish people and Palestinian people have in common. It is that Gentiles will be playing us in TV and film. at least historically speaking shout out to Moe streaming now on Netflix that's why we are going to rank the most egregious foes Semites

in silver screen history in a segment we're calling halal in the tray family halal in the tray fam here's how this game works this will be a blind ranking so you'll not know which artificial

which artificial Arab or junkpile Jew will be named next the next it's fine it's fine I just want to be clear to everybody we think this game is fine we think it's fine I thought making my show is hard

this is it we think that this game is fine so we are going to rank we are going to rank these Gentiles playing semites and on a scale from halal and kosher

to Haram and Trafe the most kosher slash halal will be number one the one that's the most Haram slash Traif will be number eight okay? Here we go first up and again you don't know who will be next Are they going to come up on screen? Yeah okay cool

first up we have Killian Murphy as a theoretical physicist Jay Robert Ipenheimer in 2023's Oppenheimer here's the real Oppenheimer it looked exactly like comedian and next week guest Pat Regan Oh my God, he does A little bit, yeah

so we have Killian Murphy playing Oppenheimer hmm, what do we think on our scale? I'm going two. Two? Do you think he was good? I think he was good.

I think he did a good job. Oh my God. I think he was a good performance. I was missing a little Kishkas, you know what I mean? I was I was I was

Yeah. Yeah, so much kishkis was missing. You know, this game is like they're tricking us a little bit. You got to know, they're going to set us up. You know, they're putting it up there. So if you put them too high, then you might be in a tricky situation. I understand. I'm sticking to my guns.

Okay. Next up, we have... Two it is. Two it is. Next up we have Ray Fines voicing the Pharaoh Ramses in 1998's Prince of Egypt. Eight. No. Eight.

You don't even need to finish. That's an eight for you? That's an eight. Immediately. They're all eights. Why don't you just think for a moment about the advice you gave TV legend Henry Winkler a moment ago?

I'm going to add a nine on there. All right, next up, we're going to put him at eight. Unless Henry Winkler chimes in, it's good. No, no, you should tell Mowie's wrong about this. I will not do that. And again, we think that this game is fine. Wait, Jafar is going to be next, too.

I think so. Seven. Seven. Seven. Seven. Seven. There's going to be a Jafar something in there. Next up, we have Rachel Brosnahan as comedian Midge Mazzel in Amazon Prime Videos and Marvelous Mrs.

Maisel. She was good. Two. Two. Two do you think two? You already had two. That's why I told you you shouldn't put him a two. I'm okay with that.

I thought she was great. I think she's great, too. And she's a lovely person. Oh, well, then you should have given her one, if you thought that much. Not that lovely. He's kidding. We're losing at this game. We've got 2A and 2B.

Yeah, I know. The judges are going to be furious with me. Okay. They're back there. All right. Next up, we have All right, In 1962's Lawrence of Arabia. 20.

It's pretty bad. A solid 20. It's pretty bad. It's pretty bad. Now, you were telling us backstage that you also turn this part down, right? Henry Winkler? Well, that would have been a two.

I was there at the beginning of film. But I thought he was wonderful. Do you really? I really, he's such a good actor, this guy. Yeah. Make-up's tough, but he was a good actor. Because he also wasn't a Jedi. Okay, let's just, why he is?

I got to soften up for him. No. You don't. No. Okay, all right, okay. You go with nine. It's your fault. You know everybody. That's the problem. I never met him. I just, I was... He's a lovely person. We had coffee in 1976. No, but I met... I met... I met Ms. Naisal.

You met him? No, I never met him. No. I wish I had, though. Just stayed over at his house on weekends or something. I just do... I had seven before. Let's go six. Six, okay. Okay, okay. I'll final answer.

Next up, we have Rachel McAdams as Orthodox Jewish lesbian, S.D. Cooperman in disability. Sorry. I don't mean to laugh. I apologize. It's really funny. I don't think I saw it.

But just based off of the... Two. You can't. Somebody's got to be down on the list. Wow. Why is it? You guys are more, like, okay with the roles

that they're playing and clearly how races the shit that I'm watching it's like much, much worse. Yeah, it's interesting. Okay, yeah, yeah. Patterns, interesting, yeah. It is.

Next up we have Antonio Banderas. I'm gonna say that's a three. Yeah, that's a solid three, right? That's a three. Yeah, maybe a four. Antonio Banderas as Ahmed bin Fadlon in 1999's the 13th warrior, Jesus.

We're getting closer, you know what? We're getting closer, getting warmer. Yeah, I'm saying, like, at least the complexion is there, you know what I mean? You don't be cool. What number? Oh, well, you being so pushy all of a sudden. You're right. You're right.

It does wear off after a few minutes. Oh. Somebody get him a leather jacket. It's raining outside. I'm just kidding. I'm so sorry. No, no, no. It's all right.

I love you so much. It's your soul. Yeah. Fuck. Six. Six, okay. Okay. Six.

You know what's interesting? The name Antonio Banderas is a beautiful name. But then if you met somebody in English whose name was Tony Flags, it would also be cool. Yeah. I'm Tony Flags. Cool. Different cool, though. Different cool.

Totally different energy. Antonio Banderas. Tony Flags. It's cool. I love it. All right, next up. He looks, he's concerned. He is.

Ah, he's good. Felicity Jones, the Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg in 2018's on the basis of sex. You know, it's hard, you know what's hard, it's not kind of,

the, the portrayal of Arabs has a much more racial element in the photos, I'll say. And the Jewish portrayals, what's not coming across, in these photos is the lack of Jewish energy in the performances because we had David Krumholz on the show

last week and he was in Oppenheimer, you've got to love him. I worked with him when he was 13. Yes, on, on Monty. He was my son. He was your son on Monty. Of course. But when he shows up in Ophanheimer... Can I just say, I don't care whether she was good

or not as a Jewess, I would date her. And that's a two. And that's a two. That's also a two. And that's going to have to be a two. But Crommelt shows up in Oppenheimer, and it's like all the, and it's Killian Murphy sitting across him, and I agree. He did a great job performing it.

But that's a guy with bagels in his pockets. You know what I'm saying? I don't know what you're saying. He is, David Crumholtz is limitless. He is one of those actors who just is good at everything. He is just good. Can I get that sound bite? mo in the middle of that we can we'll do you sora too good at everything thank you for

god's sakes let's get that want to see the last one it was really bad wasn't it let's show the last one show the last one let's show the last one it's eugene levy is mr habib in father the bride part two. That's 55. Just the just the chahskuts being thrown around. Solid, solid 75.

A hundred. It's a hundred. Look at her. She's not even feeling good about the whole situation. She's like, I don't know. They named him Mr. Habib. Like, this is not right. He spit in my face three times just trying to pretend. He's speaking Arabic. This is rough. Yeah, it's not good.

I love him, though. He's a great actor. We had coffee one time, he and I. No, we didn't. What's interesting is, you've achieved such a level of success that they didn't know you were choking. Yeah. That's exciting.

That's how I am out here. Me and Henry, you're about to go do the town here in a second. No? No. No, no, and it has nothing to do with you. Oh, I know. I got the sound bite. What the hell do I care?

Nice. I think I'm out of questions. Special is called Wild World, by the way. The special is called, that's what I wanted to say. The title is special is called Wild World on Netflix. Yes. Which you can check out, and the show is called Mo. Yes.

Also on Netflix. That's correct. Everybody check it out. And you can watch Henry's show Hazardous History on the History Channel and pick up Henry's book, Detective Duck, The Mystery at Emerald Pond. It turns out that the mystery is how did Epstein kill himself?

It's a children's book, for God's sakes. Ergo Epstein. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. And we're back. One note, thank you to everybody who came to CricketCon and made it possible attendees, speaker, sponsors. We couldn't have done it without you.

I really do appreciate everybody that came to CrookedCon, appreciate everybody that helped put it together, everybody in the team that worked so hard. Really, it was something that took years for us to get to the place where we could do and to have the team in place that could put on something as big as that. I was generally blown away by how many great people participated

and how the conversations really did seem to go everywhere. Like, it really had a moment, and it felt like something that we built Crooked Media to do, which is to have a place that was a gathering point for everybody, believes in democracy from the former Trump Republicans who have shown great personal courage in leaving that party behind all the way to the far left and trying to remember that we're all part of one big coalition, even when that can seem difficult.

And it felt like a real proof that that was possible. So thank you. If you couldn't make it and want to hear the conversations panels and all the other fun stuff we got into, head to crookedcon.com. We're posting a lot of it. And you can also hear the panels on the Pod Save America podcast feed. or YouTube channel and sign up at CricketCon.com for all the details on our

next CricketCon coming to you in 2026, just in time for the midterms. And next week, we'll be back at Dynasty. We have a live show with Haley Kiyoko and Pat Regan, which will be fun. And on Tuesday,

the next episode in my reality series, Bravo, America, we'll be out with John Cochran of Survivor. All right. End of plus. This week, Trump gave us an adlipting gem on Veterans Day with this moment. If we die, we must die, and we as men, would die without complaining.

Ironic, since he complains every second of every single day. In a celebratory reputation of his advice, my guests and I will each share a complaint because life is about enjoying complaining until we die. In his segment, we're calling, no complaints. Now to the wheel. Wherever it lands, you complain about something. Mo, what's something you'd like to complain about? Enough of two-wheel luggage.

I don't want to see two-wheel luggage. You're dragging it behind you like an idiot. Like, stop. You're taking over too much real estate. There's four wheels exist, okay? You can roll it smoothly next to you. It's perfect. If I see you with no wheels on your luggage,

you and I are not friends ever, okay? if you're just carrying it sweating like a lunatic trying to get on a plane smacking every other person when you're walking on the plane we and I cannot operate in the same universe that's it that was beautiful that was beautifully sad

and so important and so important yes and so important let's spin it again you know what's funny I forgot we had a whiteboard for ranking in the previous segment just didn't do it I was supposed to write it down

I forgot. Well, it's easy. It's all twos. What a dummy. But I think if you had seen the previous twos, it would have been chastening, you know,

and it would have led to maybe more respect for the format. I agree. But I didn't respect the format. And you know what? How are other people going to respect my show? If I don't respect my show.

Exactly. Another lesson that maybe Henry could say to other people. If you want to take that one, you could take it. No, I'm going to leave it right here. It has landed on Henry Winkler. What is something you'd like to complain about?

Okay, I want, honestly, I want to complain about two-wheel luggage. I, no, no, kidding, Mo-mo. I want to, I want to complain about the lack of listening. How did that happen in supposedly the greatest country in the world, that critical sinking has just gone the way of, you know, clearing your plate into the garbage? man i can't agree with you more 100% i cannot stand it everyone is just they're not listening they're just waiting to respond

and in such a terrible way terrible yeah i agree with you this is a great show thanks for saying that oh my god this was wonderful i enjoyed myself and enough i had such a great time yeah and it had such a this is the bad i don't want it to be over i have a show at 930 i don't give a shit about the show anymore

let's let's spin it again i think Really what I wanted to complain about is people just putting their phone, watching things on their phone in public with the volume. I was... Oh, with no headphones? No headphones.

Oh, my God. And it's the decline of civilization. I was at a pizza place in New York because I was in New York, and if I'm in New York, I only have two meals a day. I have a bagel and then I have pizza. That's it.

I have a bagel and I have pizza. Day after day after day after day after day. And I don't feel great when I leave. But I can't stop it. I can't stop it. So I was in a pizza place and there was a man at the table next to me on his phone watching videos

and it was a little bit annoying. And I go to take a bite of my pizza and when I say this man was watching what I can only imagine was just videos of women screaming just high-pitched shrieking and finally I just like

I like turned to him and I was like volume he just looked back at me and what are you going to keep the fight going you got to move on I'm a little man I'm not I'm not physical did he turn it up

I don't know that he I don't know it was maybe it was a language it was sort of like a kind of like and then back down into it. It's awful. It's, but what has happened to us? I can't do it. What has happened to people? That's one of my biggest pet peeves

though, for sure. It's out of control on the train, on the train on the train. On the subway, everywhere. Airplane, it happens on an airplane that's diabolical. That you say something. Oh, immediately. That you say something. I pop up like a mere cat. If somebody in my area

I really do. I really do. And I will say something. I I will say something. Oh, I'm the guy. I'll say something, too, 100%. And I think you have to have a sacred deal. And the deal is this. You can speak out about rude loudness,

but that means you have to be super supportive of parents that have a loud baby. And you have to be a... The permission structure for being a scold of the volume is being a protector of the loud baby. And even though it is annoying, it's a loud baby. The baby isn't it?

The baby doesn't know. And the parents don't want to be on the plane. with the baby, so you side with them, and that gives you a little bit of a good feeling for the battles ahead. Yes. That's what I think. My God, nothing more stressful if your baby's being fussy on a flight. It's like, you're just dying inside. You're looking around like,

this doesn't happen, I swear. I'm trying to just catastrophizing, thinking everyone wants to kill you, you know what I mean? For this baby. My son is a great traveler, but every once in a while, he was like, you know, he wants to run. He wants to be free. He's not even two. Not even two. Yeah.

It's going to make noise? Yeah. It's going to make noise. It's going to make it's so funny. What? I just refer to a kid like, it's going to make noise. It is. I enjoyed this show.

I did too. I did too. It's Henry Winkler. It's amazing. It's Mo Amher. That is our show. show. We will see you next week at Dynasty Typewriter. There are 353 days until the midterms. Have a great night and have a great

weekend. Thank you so much. And a great holiday. If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on Instagram, TikTok, and all the other ones for original content, community events, and more. You can also find Love It or Leave It on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube exclusive content. And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, Consider dropping us a review. Finally, you can join Crooked's Friends of the Pod Subscription Community for ad-free Lovett or Leave It and Pod Save America episodes,

subscriber-exclusive pods, and more. Sign up at crooked.com slash friends. Loved or Leave it is a crooked media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett, and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer. Bill McGrath is our producer and Kennedy Hill is our associate producer. Hallie Kiefer is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus Jocelyn Koff and Peter Miller, Alan Pierre, and Suba Argoal are our writers. Jordan Cantor is our editor, Kyle Segglin and Charlotte Landis, provide audio support. Stephen Cologne is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Sure Sure.

Thanks to our designer, Sammy Coderna Rees for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see, because this is a podcast. And thanks to our digital producers, David Tolls, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman, Belon, Villanueva, and Rachel Gieski for filming and editing video each week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroat, and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. It's love it, olive it.