Lovett or Leave It - Dishonest Abe

Episode Date: October 24, 2020

Last debate behind us, ten days ahead of us. PACKED SHOW. Alex Wagner and Guy Branum join to play a special debate edition of OK, Stop. Ira Madison III joins for the monologue, where we do NOT dwell on this Rudy story because we are above that. Theresa Greenfield talks about her campaign for the Senate against Joni Ernst and she quizzes Jon on Iowa facts. Plus Jon talks to Olivia Troye about leaving Trump's coronavirus task force and endorsing Joe Biden and he talks to Aidan Kohn-Murphy about the Gen Z campaign for Joe Biden on Tik Tok. VOLUNTEER THIS WEEKEND. votesaveamerica.com/volunteer

Welcome to Love It or Leave It Home Stretch. swing left to make it all right oh wow this year for sure has put us through it but love it's back out of the closet and pundits still an angel when the votes are good and black lives matter We will overcome The right wing chatter We'll regain Our democracy again Get our laughs and facts And love it or leave it PSA pods save the world And keep it Asterion pods

Save the people too With friends like these Hope the votes come through Love it or leave it Love it or leave it Love it or leave it Straight shooter Love it or leave it Love it or leave it

Respect it on both sides That song, what a delight, sent in by Suzy Englott. If you want to make a homestretch song, this is your last chance. We have one more show after this show until the election is done. Holy shit. So you can send us your final homestretch song at leaveitatcrooked.com. That's leaveitatcrooked.com. That's leaveitatcrooked.com. And maybe we'll use yours or maybe we'll find a way to use a couple of them.

I don't know. For our final show before November 3rd. All right. We got 10 days. Embrace the uncertainty. Feel everything. Feel nothing. And let's focus on what we have to do over the next 240 hours.

This show comes out on Saturday, October 24th, which means this is Vote Early Day. And we're doing our part by letting voters know about their early voting options, whether it's casting a vote in person or dropping off a ballot. We're in the final phase of the election cycle. This is the get out the vote period where campaigns mobilize all their resources and volunteers to turn out their supporters. These are the biggest volunteer weekends of the entire race. So go to votesaveamerica.com slash volunteer to sign up. Take a shift right now.

If you're hearing this after the weekend, it doesn't matter. You, right now, you can go to votesaveamerica.com slash volunteer. We've tried to make it as easy as humanly possible. You go to votesaveamerica.com slash volunteer. You're basically presented instantly with a bunch of options for how you can help right now. So please, now is the time. Ten days left. Take a shift. You can do it. I'm talking to you, not talking to some other person. I'm talking to you. Okay. Wagner and Guy Branum for OK Stop around the debate. Teresa Greenfield stops by to talk about her race in Iowa and to quiz me on some Iowa facts. Olivia Troy, who left the White House and is now campaigning for Biden. We had a great conversation. And I'm joined by Aiden Cohn-Murphy, who is a 16-year-old who's helped build a huge following for Joe Biden on TikTok. What a show.

But first, he's a writer, pop culture expert, host of Crooked's podcast, Keep It, returning champion, Ira Madison III. Ira, it's good to see you. Hi, John. I love that intro. You do? You liked it? Yeah, it's so cute. You may recognize me from Watch What Happens Live. I didn't actually. That's where you may know me from. Didn't actually watch the episode. Didn't catch it. Didn't, didn't, you know? Okay. But congrats for being on. Let's get into it. What a week. A week after me.

And what a week it was, Ira Madison. This week, news broke that the new Borat movie includes a scene with Rudy Giuliani. And I thought we shouldn't dwell on it. So let's just move on. That was a joke? I just don't see there's any reason to dwell on this incredibly offensive person hoist by his own petard

as it were. I see no reason to spend any time on this after so many years of dealing with such terrible fucking news to be handed this gift ten days before the election and have fun with it. I don't think we should do that. So I'm just going to move forward. Yeah, okay. Those are your thoughts on Borat,

but what do you think of Rudy? Hey. Hey. You raised this point about Rudy. Again, I don't think we should dwell on it, but I'll just say Rudy in a hotel room with Borat's supposed daughter, and he's apparently reaching into

his pants, hoping he might have a chance to participate in an act Rudy might call colluding with the one-eyed spy. That was good. Stopping and frisking and napping. Again, we're not going to dwell on it. Melting his steel beam. Okay.

Saluting the NYPP. All right, I think that's enough. Jeetering his Derek. Erecting a 9-11 monument. Okay, okay, okay. Making a reservation at the meatball shop. Unseating his Dinkins. All right.

That's it. Want to move on? Yeah. Watching the ball drop. Has he ever done that? Visiting Little Italy. And finally, hey, I'm cocking here. That's it. I'm done now. I'm really done. I can't believe you brought me here to hear those.

I think you can. I think that you can. Look, Rudy denied anything untoward was happening in the hotel room when the scene took place, tweeting that he was tucking in his shirt after taking off the recording equipment. Ah, we've all heard that one. Mom, get out of here. I'm just tucking in my shirt and taking off the recording equipment. No, Sacha Baron Cohen didn't pop out of a closet and frighten me, not just because I was startled, but because it forced me to confront what my life had become.

And for one brief, dull, silent moment, I saw myself in full, an old, broken, sad man seeking sexual relief in a vile fantasy that this could be anything other than what it turned out to be. No, that's not what this was. Ira?

That was... Are you going to watch the board? What was that? That was searing. I am going to watch it. I'm absolutely watching it. I was just making a joke earlier. I am going to watch it. I'm absolutely watching it. I was just making a joke earlier. I love Sacha Baron Cohen.

I know you do. I famously loved him last week in The Trial of the Chicago 7. I was the only one defending it on Keep It this week. Wow. Wow. I like you taking a bold stance. Yeah. A bold stance.

Running against the current, because there's nothing the Twitter current likes more than taking Aaron Sorkin to pieces. All right, let's shift gears. Totally different story. This week, New Yorker writer Jeffrey Toobin was caught masturbating on a work scene. In a statement afterward, Toobin said, I apologize to my wife. Remember that? In a statement after, Toobin said, I apologize to my wife. You remember that, Ira? I do remember that.

My wife. My wife. I never thought I would hear you say that. I'm surprised myself. But it's a rare opportunity. It's a rare opportunity to be presented with these two stories side by side. It's like Joe Biden says that Seamus Heaney says. You know, occasionally hope and history rhyme.

Ira. Yeah. I don't think he meant it about two embarrassing masturbation stories taking place in one week. But in this case, it did apply. I was hoping that story was going to be, like, inspiring to people. You know? Like, if Travis wanted to hop on Zoom now and do it.

All right. You button it up. All right. You button it up. You button it up. All right. I'll tell you what I imagine somebody in HR told Jeffrey Toobin. You're at fucking work. During a call with campaign staff, President Trump said Dr. Anthony Fauci was a disaster and that people are tired of hearing Fauci and these idiots, all these idiots who got it wrong. Didn't think science was so dumb when they were pumping antibodies and steroids into his arms. And again, Ira, I don't know why this is something I care about, all right, and why I keep bringing it up, but for whatever reason I do, I would bet my life on the fact that Anthony Fauci is voting for Joe Biden.

I would take that bet, both because I know it's right and also because I could genuinely develop a gambling problem because I love action. I already have a plan to go to Vegas after the vaccine. And I know that that's not what they say is safe. I know they say don't get the vaccine and act like everything's OK. But mentally, mentally to get me through the next period of time before that vaccine is ready. In my mind, I get the vaccine. I go right to Vegas. The last buffet I had before the lockdowns began was in Las Vegas.

And the first one I have when these lockdowns are over will be in Las Vegas. Okay. You know, there's like illegal gambling rings in Los Angeles. You don't have to go to Vegas. Vegas is gross. That's not really my speed. I'm not a You don't want a Molly's game? Yeah, I'm not a Molly's game

type. You know what the thing is about Molly's game as long as we're talking about Molly's game? I really did... I went into that movie not knowing what it was about. I really did think at some point she would play poker. I thought... I really, like, I thought this is a movie about somebody who gets involved in underground poker

and discovers that she's really, really good at it. But she never even touches a deck of carts. No. It's disappointing. Yeah. You know, they don't like to touch their own supply. Dealers. That's right.

That's right. That's right. Good point. Good point. You don't last long. You know what's funny about Fauci? What? I have the suspicion that, like, we would hate him in person.

But because he's in opposition to Trump, we like him. I think it is very clear he's a good human being. I actually hadn't even seen the interview he did with his wife, who's apparently in her own right a very successful bioethicist. I had no idea what his marriage was like, but I went into it assuming it was A+. He just has that demeanor of like, but I went into it assuming it was A plus. He just has that demeanor of like, I'm solid, I'm good. I got a marriage that just works. Just an A plus well functioning marriage. Also this week, President Trump walked out during a 60 Minutes interview with Leslie Stahl saying the questions were too tough.

But what about the pre-existing people with pre-existing conditions? Are protected. Will be totally protected. They'll be protected, Leslie. I mean, the people with pre-existing conditions are going to be protected as they are now. In any plan we do, they will be protected. What did Trump think that Leslie Stahl would ask? Famous pushover Leslie Stahl. think that Leslie Stahl would ask. Famous pushover Leslie Stahl. Her whole thing is having a variety of different takes on bangs and asking hard questions with a quizzical look. Sometimes

they're choppy bangs. Sometimes they're kind of swoopy. Sometimes they're bangs adjacent, almost kind of like they're grown out. Great bangs. Tough questions. Leslie Stahl, agree or disagree, Ira? I mean, to be fair, she did let Alzheimer's Reagan, like, wander around the White House without telling anybody. So maybe he thought he could get away with something. You raise an interesting point. You raise an interesting point. Also this week, Senator Mitch McConnell told Republican senators privately on Tuesday that he has advised the White House not to strike an economic relief deal

with Nancy Pelosi before Election Day after Pelosi gave an upbeat assessment of talks with Stephen Mnookin. I am just so sick and tired of Mitch McConnell getting away with this shit just because he's hot. That was a good one. Thanks, Aaron. Yeah. He's so hot, so smoking hot. Yeah, I get it. I wouldn't want to make a deal with Nancy Pelosi either after she endorsed David Ryu.

Okay. All right. Okay. What is this? Hey, what is this? Is this a Zoom writer's room or are we having a conversation? You know what I mean? I got a lot of opinions.

And finally, this week, Quibi announced that they will be shutting down just a few months after launching. I wanted to bring it up only because we joked around about Quibi a fair amount on this show. But it is genuinely sad for a lot of people who will lose their jobs because none of us did our part for Quibi. All right. You failed Quibi. I failed Quibi. I worked on a Quibi show. You did. And you did a great job. I supported Quibi. We all supported Quibi. All right? You failed Quibi. I failed Quibi. I worked on a Quibi show. You did.

And you did a great job. I supported Quibi. We all supported Quibi. And they paid me. We all supported. I was on Game Show. I was supposed to be on another Quibi next week. I think that that isn't happening.

I actually honestly don't know. Are they still making Quibis? Or am I not? Is that time free now? You know. I don't know. Knowing Quibi making Quibbies? Or am I not? Is that time free now? You know, knowing Quibby, they would shut down Quibby but still produce content for ten more years.

Quibby was last seen skulking around an old mansion with a monkey and a handsome houseboy saying to no one, the bites are still quick. It's the pictures that got slow. Ira Madison, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Any final thoughts?

Well, now that you asked, you could have sent a text. And what would that text have said? That you were going on Watch What Happens Live. I knew that that was coming. Okay. Okay. You could have sent a text. I'm sorry.

I didn't realize that I was your personal TV guy. Well, you know, it's Bravo. Yeah. And you know who else didn't tell me they were going on? Jon Favreau. Yeah. Neither one of us told you. I will never forget him for that. You didn't text me when Ronan was mentioned on The Boys. I watched The Boys two months

after that episode came out, and he had already shared that scene on his Instagram. So do you have his Instagram stories muted? I didn't know that. I don't have them muted. You heard it here first. Oh dear. I'll say this, Ira. I'll say this.

Here's some good news. As long as none of you narc on me, Ronan will never hear this. This is a place where I can divulge any secret and be caught having not seen many an Instagram story on Ronan's feed because he does not listen to this podcast. So do me a favor. Let's keep this between us. All right. Me, Ira, you, the listener. Love it or snitch it. Wow. Wow. And on that note,

when we come back, OK, stop the final debate edition. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. Joining me now, she's a journalist, author, co-host of The Circus on Showtime, and host of the cricket series Six Feet Apart. Please welcome back returning champion Alex Wagner. Hi, John. I'm so happy to be here. So good to see you. And he's a comedian, writer, actor, author of the book, My Life as a Goddess, and could it possibly be another returning champion? Guy Branum. Good to be here, John. Thank you for still plugging the book like two years in.

I really appreciate it. We're going to move some units, all right? Move some books. Well, now it's time for OK Stop. We'll roll a clip. Alex, Guy, myself, we can say stop. We can say OK, then stop together as OK Stop. Any time to comment.

We just finished watching the second and final presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. It was exciting. It was, in some sense, normal. Normal's okay. I thought that the president really benefited from being weakened. I thought that the president being debilitated by our current plague really made him look more presidential because he was just doing less. really made him look more presidential because he was just doing less. Yes, the director did go up to him and say,

all right, we want to hear all the same lines that we heard in the first debate, but this time, throw them away. Also, like, if you bury the bar so far in the ground that you can't see it anymore, then you're probably going to be able to pass it. You're going to be able to clear it. And, like, establishing yourself as a lunatic in the first debate, a belligerent, pugnacious lunatic, really leaves you a lot of running room for the second and final debate. Expectations in politics are so different than in any other facet of life

in the sense that you're interviewing somebody for a job. And in the first interview, they were a raving, out-of-control, yelling behemoth, barely cogent, interrupting everybody. And then they said, give me one more interview. And they showed up, and they were merely terrible. You wouldn't say, you know what? You surpassed my expectations. Welcome aboard. Totally.

All right, let's roll the clip. Let's roll the clip. We should be talking about your families, but that's the last thing he wants to talk about. I want to talk about North Korea. I do want to turn to 10 seconds, Mr. President, 10 seconds. That's a typical political statement. Let's get off this China thing.

And then he looks, the family, around the table, everything. Just a typical politician. Such a, what do you call that, compassion? Is that that compassion thing? Typical, typical. I like it when he goes just pure Dennis Leary mid-debate. It's clear that the sort of Biden device for the debates, which is looking straight into the camera,

vaulting over Trump and his nonsense and speaking directly to the American public, is the thing that Biden has been lauded for as like the best part of his debate strategy. And it bothers the shit out of Trump. And so it's like after one or two passes at this talking to the public BS, Trump like has to throw a mini tantrum about it. It kills him. It kills him. Well, you know, he hates he he knows good TV, you know? He saw the first debate. He knows that turning to the camera was a good move. Well, the hard thing is, is nobody wants Trump at a six.

The people who love Trump don't want Trump at a six. They want him at an 11. And it does, he has put himself in a position where like, he's really never going to satisfy anybody at this point. God, I hope. God, I hope. When he talks about a public option, he's really never going to satisfy anybody at this point. God, I hope. God, I hope. When he talks about a public option, he's talking about destroying your Medicare.

Totally destroyed. And destroying your Social Security. And this whole country will come down. You know, Bernie Sanders tried it. Okay, stop. I love that the president has just resorted to saying things that will scare older people who are having trouble following what's going on. The just bringing up 401ks and Social Security for no reason, he's going to take

away your Medicaid. It was one of the strongest strategies he could do. Vice President Biden should have responded. I think he should just say the words Scranton, Pennsylvania, over and over again between now and November 3rd. Like, I think if he can put Pennsylvania in a W, this is all over. It's now just scary statements versus homie platitudes. Well, I think also this is the, like, there are moments in this debate where you really see Trump's lack of preparation, right? Like, actually has a case. There is a certain section of the American electorate that would be scared, really fucking scared over a robust argument about socialized medicine, right? Like that's a legitimate argument. Trump could win some points there.

Trump could win points on a couple different fronts relating to the economy, but he refuses to put in the time and the work to have a coherent argument. And so it ends up being this kind of word salad of like fear buzzwords, which is not moving the needle the way he needs it to be. I think that's right. You know, you look at like, so Biden took a couple hits on not having a good answer on the adding justices to the court question, right? You saw that evolve, kind of normal politics played out. I think it's unfair the way that it played out.

But regardless, he faced the question. They kind of dodged it. He faced it again, dodged it. And finally, you know, he comes out before this debate with an answer about a commission to put that question to rest without kind of giving in to going one way or another because of the politics. Fine. You look at how Trump has mishandled a question around pre-existing conditions, right?

He's been asked about it. He's been asked about it. He's been asked about it. He's been asked about it. He's been asked about it. A politician practicing normal politics in debate prep with their advisors would sit down and say, what are we gonna do to give people a real answer on this question?

But because there's no functioning policy shop, there's no real old-fashioned political organization at work here. It's propagandas, it's lies, it's pumping out bullshit. They don't have a good answer for that question. You know, the debate, it's lies, it's pumping out bullshit. They don't have a good answer for that question. You know, the debate to me, I think some of the biggest moments were those kind of empathetic moments, those real comparisons. You know, Joe Biden saying, I'll be a president for all Americans, that final answer. But throughout the debate, what is

striking is Trump has asked, what's your plan for COVID? He says, it's not my fault and I feel better. And he asked Joe Biden and Joe Biden ticks off the plans. You know, you see it with that focus group right before the debate began. You see it in polls. There are undecided voters out there who dislike Trump and want to hear concrete answers from Joe Biden. And regardless of the tit for tat, oh, Trump did better this time than last time. I think Joe Biden won this debate. Just providing those answers, not in comparison, but just giving people those facts is an incredibly useful thing that Biden did. It is shocking to me. We are eight months into

this pandemic. And when Donald Trump is asked, what's your plan for COVID? He can't say and he has nothing to say. Like it was a litany of kind of weird buzzwords. You should see what we've done with goggles. Operation Warp Speed. Operation Warp Speed is something that the administration has actually done correctly, it seems, and yet he doesn't even know how to tell that story. He has no, like, it's...

Alex, he stopped flight seven months ago. That is the one clear message I have about his COVID policy. Yes. He tried it in his state. His governor was a very liberal governor.

They want to make it work. Okay, let's hear... It was impossible to work. It doesn't work. He's a very confused guy. He thinks he's running against somebody else. He's running against Joe Biden. OK, stop. I do love that. I do love that every time there is an attempt of saying like this is a crazy like leftist who's going to destroy your lives and, you know, upset the world as we know it. There were five solid months of people yelling about what a dinosaur Joe Biden was that makes that argument completely invalid. Well, and I also, you got to hand it to the Biden team. Like, they basically came up with a strategy, which was, we're not going to try and be the party

that answers the call of the progressive left. We think they're going to vote for us, and we're going for the middle. He's going to stand there in the debate stage and say, I'm not banning fracking. He's not going to talk about adding seats to the court. He's going to establish a commission. They have not defund the police. He has not even tried to theoretically entertain a lot of the very substantive ideas that are animating the left wing of the base. He is just consistently gone for the middle over and over again.

And I will say, you know, people are going to have an issue with that. And it's going to be harder to do that, obviously, if he's president, because the Democratic Party has a real big tent. But as a as an actual strategy, they've been real cutthroat about that. And that, to me, is, I think, surprising in a lot of ways, especially in Democratic politics. I would disagree in this sense. I think you are right in terms of what they have done around a few shibboleths and a few debate moments, right, around fracking, around the phrase to fund the police in these debates saying, you're not running against them, you're running against me, I'm not

for that, I'm for a public option. At the same time they did that, I think that they were very smart on the climate plan, on the health care plan to try to bring Bernie in, bring in the left of the party and try to build a consensus policy. You know, he consistently says, I do not embrace the Green New Deal, I have my own plan, but he's, I do not embrace the Green New Deal. I have my own plan. But he has agreed to the benchmarks in the Green New Deal. So I think... Yeah, substantively in policy, he is absolutely building, you know, a platform that will have, if it's enacted, buy-in from the progressive left. But rhetorically, I mean, that indicates an understanding that the progressive left will be okay with the rhetorical

centrism that has very much been a hallmark of the campaign. Can I ask you this question? Because CNN was very ready to construe Biden saying we do need to like be segwaying off of oil. They were like, that was a gaffe. He's so old. He got tired. But when I heard it, I assumed that it was just the same as he is saying i'm not gonna end fracking for pennsylvania he's just going out and saying the truth which is that we do need to end our reliance on fossil fuels to tell the base of his party the left of his party that like he's gonna be their president too what do you guys think it was well i mean first of all i think he has poll internal polling that that shows widespread acceptance of climate change as a real and existential threat facing the country.

I think especially for, you know, suburban moms, which is like a bread and butter group that Biden is winning over. He feels like he can say that. I mean, the fucking fact that we even have to say, ooh, like, what's a political strategy on that is a ridiculous thing, admittedly. But I think he knows where his people and where broadly the American public stands on these issues. So I think that gives him the freedom to say what is an obvious truth, which is we need to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. There are 50 former national intelligence folks who said that what this he's accusing me of is a Russian plan. They have said that this has all the care, four, five former heads of the CIA. Okay, stop. This is my favorite part of the debate. Like this gobbledygook. Like,

first of all, like the tee up, like Bobulinski or Bababooey or whatever this dude's name is, who's like the informant that's being trotted out on Breitbart and Fox News. This is supposed to be like Trump's closing salvo, the thing that's going to kneecap Biden, a redux of like the emails, the emails, the emails of 2016. And like the guy can't even explain the confection of the conspiracy to a television audience. He couldn't remember the name. He couldn't remember the name. He literally didn't say the name. Brings the guy all the way to this debate. Can't get the guy's name out.

Because he has no grasp. It is like an elaborate fabrication or it is a lot of like gossamer threads that have been woven into this like conspiracy braid. That's so many different weird metaphors. But it works for me. I loved it. And then like they have this weird back and forth. Biden is like prepared for it kind of, but they're speaking in this like fox rabbit hole, like cipher code language about things that most people have no, like Burisma, Baba Booey, the like exchanges about, you know, the Chinese. And then Biden does this masterful thing, which again, Trump probably should have seen

coming from a mile away. He turns it back around and is like, PS dude, you're the one with the Chinese bank account. And then Trump's on the defense again. I mean, I just thought it was a shockingly terrible execution of his closing end game strategy. Yeah, I mean, you saw that Trump realized he hadn't landed it right. And he tried to come back to it like two times.

Then at the end of the debate, he tried to make a moment out of the oil thing, as Guy pointed out. And it was all because I think he recognized that he didn't land the blow that he wanted to land. Look, I think whenever we were in that section, it's just noise. Like, it's like, I don't think Biden sounds good in that section either. It's like a morass of confusing and hard to follow allegations, which is not what Trump needs it to be.

But that pivot when Biden came back around to taxes and hit him hard on taxes, that was an excellent clean hit. And I really do think this was Biden's sharpest debate of 2020. I had this feeling watching it that I just realized, all right, like Joe Biden thinks it is really important that he become president and he's not fucking around. I love that we have a pragmatist in this position. We all went through 2016. We all got a little ahead of ourselves and a little too excited and it all fell apart.

And the fact that they so clearly are just like, all right, hold on to Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. You got no Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Hold on to them. Don't say anything that will scare Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. You got no Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Hold on to them. Don't say anything that will scare Wisconsin or Pennsylvania. I'm like, fine. Would it be beautiful to get a North Carolina? Would it be exciting to get a Georgia? Absolutely.

But, like, that man was in the Senate for a lifetime. He's counting votes. He's counting votes. Both parties say what he's saying is a bunch of garbage. Nobody believes it except his and his good friend Rudy Giuliani. You mean the laptop is now another Russia, Russia, Russia hoax? That's exactly what. Is this where you're going?

That's exactly what. This is where he's going. And if you look, with the exception of Abraham Lincoln, possible exception, but the exception of abraham lincoln nobody has done what i've done because i am i am the least racist person i can't even see the audience because it's so dark but i don't care who's in the audience i'm the least okay stop i don't even see color because the lights are off i know like who is that abraham lincoln line for who is that for it's for fucking joe biden to call him abraham lincoln over here i mean all of the clowns and malarkies can only go so far but calling him abraham lincoln over here like it felt human it felt like yeah it felt like him saying this asshole.

And we all just want to hear somebody say this asshole. Well, yeah. This Abraham Lincoln over here was the fly on Mike Pence's head. Like, it was like, that was when the debate ended. Abraham Lincoln over here. It was the best line of the night. And it was, like, both funny and cutting. And it was just like, dude, I mean, it also just so took the piss.

Like, Donald Trump is not Abraham Lincoln. And yet this guy with delusions of grandeur was legitimately comparing himself to Abraham Lincoln. It spun him into 90 seconds of fighting with and arguing about that, which is so representative of his lack of personal discipline or ability to understand the moment that's going on. I did truly enjoy that it just took him into a tailspin of saying, I didn't say it was Abraham Lincoln. I said I was almost as good. It just, yeah. Wow.

Donald Trump can't take a joke. What a surprise. What a weird trait. What an unexpected twist. But actually, you know, like, can I just say one other thing on that point? Like, we dismiss the role of humor, but actually the most successful presidents are people who can display a sense of humility or at least a pronounced sense of humor. I don't diminish it.

I think it's incredibly important to have funny speechwriters. I think it's really, it's like an urgent. No, but you know, there is a difference between being funny and having a sense of humor. And like George H.W. Bush didn't have it. Like Bill Clinton did. George W. Bush definitely did. Barack Obama definitely did. Donald Trump does not.

And I think it's meaningful. Also, the thing is, every time you're watching one of these, you're thinking to yourself, are we going to get one of those lines? Are we going to get a Senator? You're no Jack Kennedy. Like, are we going to get a moment like that? And there is a real problem with Trump. We've had thousands of people calling him ridiculous for four to eight years, and it hasn't worked because he is ridiculous and he just owns it. And the fact that Biden had him in front of him and was just able to say, Abraham Lincoln over here, and have him spin into it was the thing that, like,

no political comedian has been able to do, which is to just, like, force Trump to swim around in the mess of his own making. Abraham Lincoln here is one of the most racist presidents we've had in modern history. He pours fuel on every single racist fire. Every single one. President Trump, I'm going to give you 10 seconds to respond

and then I have a follow-up. No, he made a reference to Abraham Lincoln. Where did that come in? I mean, where did that come in? You said you're Abraham Lincoln. No, no, where did that? No, no. I mean, it was just like,

Trump couldn't even just leave it there. He had to bring it back to the it's just all. It's it's interesting. The first debate was obviously a huge mess in all the ways we know it was a huge mess. But fundamentally, Trump came in to throw Joe Biden off his game. And while I think it is certainly in the beginning of the debate, he actually succeeded. He ultimately got so crass and over the top and interrupting so much that it sort of fell apart for him. And this debate, it was almost reverse. If you watched, I was watching it, it was like, oh,

I think Biden's trying to rile this guy up. I think he's trying to throw some heaters just to get Trump more and more mad to forget the intonation that Dan Scavino, the happy place, whatever Dan Scavino whispered in his ear for that to wear off. And I think it actually really did work. I think by the time you get to the end of that debate, all the kind of Trump at the beginning tried to be complimented Kristen Welker. He tried to not interrupt, not even speak over the microphone. He tried, he tried and tried. And by the end, he was loose. He is angry. He felt he felt he hadn't landed any hits. He was frustrated. He was whiny. Yeah, I totally agree with you, John. He like we had subdued like Trump on his best behavior.

And I think the Biden team understood. They were like, he had a catastrophically bad first debate. And if he has learned literally anything about political survival, he has to change his strategy. So I think they expected him to come in here being better behaved. And so their counter strategy was get him back on his bad behavior. And by the end, you can see it's all told through the movement of the hands. Like Trump's hands start flailing around and he's doing that used car salesman thing where he's just like pushing the product on you like over and over again with a like low grade desperation. That's what has started happening in the last 30 minutes. It's not something I haven't thought about it before,

but it's actually deeply strange. He brings his hands in and then folds them out like almost like a swan. And he pushes forward. He pushes forward. It's a very, it's a deeply strange gesture. It's very, it's the physical embodiment of blame. Yeah. Totally. Working for someone else's fault.

Someone else's fault. The fact that Biden is able to at least illustrate to us the ability to say, I made a mistake about the 94 crime bill is just so important. And I hope Americans have gotten over the joy of placing blame enough that they're going to look for politicians who can have the dignity and self-awareness to be able to say things like that. For all the things that Trump did wrong, he did not completely blow himself up. Self-immolation was not on order tonight. And I think there, I mean, from my experience traveling the country, there's going to be a fair number of people that think he absolutely slayed tonight and did a great job and greatly improved his performance. The real question, I mean, we learned from 2016 that it doesn't matter what, like, you know, rational-minded media people, journalists, pundits think it is ultimately

what voters think. And the reality is Donald Trump had to change the dynamics of the race in some way tonight because he is losing and he didn't do that. Like he had a good debate performance, but other people are going to say Joe Biden had a good debate performance and a draw is not sufficient. I think you're absolutely right. I think he did not. It was not a catastrophic defeat. I believe Joe Biden won that debate, I think, with the plans and with the demonstrations of compassion and with kind of the outbursts and kind of the strange kind of manic and furious energy coming off of Trump that I think that that is enough to say that this was better than a draw for Joe Biden, especially in terms of if

you think the first debate was a debate where Trump disqualified himself once again, and Joe Biden had this opportunity to convince some of those last people to come over. I think this is going to look like a win for Joe Biden. But regardless, I think the key thing is to what you're saying, like, Trump had a win. Maybe there's going to people say this is a draw. Maybe people will say Biden won, but nobody's going to say Trump won. And that's another good day. And by the way, he's going to regret complimenting Kristen Welker because Hannity is already going after her and Trump's going to need an excuse come morning. So I don't know how he's going to get out of this one. But that would imply consistency is like a hallmark of his brand. No, he's literally the dude that will turn around tomorrow morning and say it

was the most crooked debate ever, depending on whether his political fortunes lie in that statement. Yeah. Inconsistency, one of the weapons in his arsenal, one of his powers for sure. John, am I allowed to declare a benefit from the Trump presidency? Or do we have to wait until after November 3rd when we're certain that this is done for me to attempt to find a little ray of light? I want to know it on November 3rd. OK, let's save it. And that's OK. Stop. Alex Wagner, Guy Branum. What a delight. That was so fun. Thank you for helping us break down the third and final second presidential debate.

The second and the second and final of three presidential debates. That's funnier. The second of second and final of three presidential debates. When we come back, Teresa Greenfield. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. Hello. Hello, how are you?

Thanks for being here. I'm good. We just, I mean, we literally just rolled in from being out in southeast Iowa for the day. So it's good to be here. Because you know Iowa, it's 75% vowels and 100% awesome. Yeah, for those listening, she is pointing at a sign that does say Iowa is 75% vowels, 100% awesome. I didn't know that, but now I do. In some sense, I always knew.

And don't confuse it with Ohio. It's happened. It's happened. All right. Well, thank you so much for being here. I will introduce you because I know you have a tight schedule. She is a farmer, a small business owner, and she's running to represent Iowa in the U.S. Senate. Please welcome Teresa Greenfield. Hello. It's great to be here. So I just want to start by asking, because this obviously isn't a normal campaign year, what has the campaign trail been like during this pandemic? How has it been to be out on the road? What have you felt like you've been able to do? What's been harder to do?

Well, I tell you, the thing I love most about campaigning is meeting people all over the state. And we've done over 300 campaign events. We're going to continue to crisscross the state. But with COVID, you know, we're following public health guidelines, keeping those groups small, wearing masks, social distancing. And a lot of folks are staying home. And I'll tell you what, though, it doesn't mean they're not interested. We've had thousands of people show up to our teletown halls, our Facebook forums, our Zoom meetings. And so Iowans are hungry and curious to meet the candidates. And they're voting right now in record numbers. So we're pretty fired up. Because your opponent has spread some misinformation about the pandemic,

has done these kind of reckless, massless events, people close to one another. She hasn't been willing to tell the truth about Trump's mismanagement on the issue. So how much is the virus itself and the pandemic itself the issue on people's minds as you're out there? Well, it's absolutely on everybody's mind. Pre-COVID, healthcare was the number one topic. And now that we're in COVID, it's still healthcare. With COVID, which I think is going to be one of the most consequential events of our lifetime. People are worried about their health, their families, their small businesses. Iowa is a state of small towns and small businesses. And too many of them that I've talked to, their revenues and cash flows are still down 60%, 80%. I've talked to commercial cleaners who don't think they're going to be open for business after the new year. So there's a real struggle here and a real need for a robust phase four stimulus package.

What has been the closing message that's resonated? By the way, I'm just telling you, I had to pick up a dog to make her quiet during this interview. So she's just been here and she's going to be here. I had no one else to do. If I didn't know one, I would have had Ringo here too. I had no one else to do. If I didn't know one, I would have had Ringo here too. But Ringo, is Ringo your favorite Beatle? Because that's a gaffe. That's a gaffe.

He's my dog. What has been the closing message that has resonated the most for you amongst undecided voters? We talk a lot about the Senate in terms of just winning back the majority. But in Iowa right now, what has been your case to undecided voters who really are on the fence right now? Yeah, well, I got in this race to put Iowans first and stand up for hardworking families. And you bet they're talking about their health care, their jobs, keeping their business open, farmers going bankrupt. But what they really want, they want the divisiveness to end. They want the name calling and the bickering to come to an end.

And, you know, that's part of who I am. I've worked much of my career at local level government with neighborhood groups and planning commissions and city councils and such, where, you know, pothole in the middle of the street, that's not a Republican problem or a Democratic problem. It's a problem we have to come together and solve. They really want Washington to work more like their hometowns. And I certainly got in this fight to work with anyone. And so we continue to spread that message

because it's a sharp contrast to Senator Joni Ernst. Yeah. So speaking of which, recently there was a clip that went viral. It was this moment during the debate that you had recently. My question is a simple ag question. Theresa Greenfield, you answer first. What's the break-even price for bushel corn in Iowa this week? Well, the bushel corn is going for about $3.68 today, $3.69.

And break-even really just depends on the amount of debt someone has. I suspect there's farmers that are breaking even at that price. However, if their yields are down 50%, that's certainly not going to cover it for them. I'll tell you, we've had low commodity prices for too long. They've been going out of business prices. Senator, break even price for soybeans for an Iowa farmer to produce. Yes, certainly. You know, I would like to go back to a previous statement. Certainly with what we have done on trade, we have seen significant strides forward. So I am thankful that we are well on our way to correcting the situation within our trade space. And that was done with a Republican Senate and a Republican in the White

House. Well, thank you very much. I'm not amiss about it. I don't think you answered my question. What's the breakeven price for soybeans in Iowa? You grew up on a farm. You should know this. I think you had asked about corn, and it depends on what the inputs are, but probably about $5.50. Well, you're a couple dollars off, I think, here, because it's $10.05. Well, we'll move on to something else then. Now, I think two things about that clip. One, I think she heard the question. All right, I'll just say it. I think she heard the question.

And two, we thought it would be fun to play a game around this. And, you know, we had come to you saying, what if I quizzed you on some non-Iowa stuff? You know, Fabergé eggs, etc. But you decided to turn the tables. You thought we should play a game where you quiz me on specific Iowa facts in a game we're calling Hawkeye Isn't Just the Avenger Who, Let's Face It, Brings the Least to the Table, which is archery. It's also a swing state. And here to play the game with us, I believe we have a volunteer waiting. Hi, Cesar.

Yes. Hi. You're on with John and Teresa Greenfield, who's running for the Senate. Oh, my God. It's Teresa Greenfield. What is this? Oh, my God. This is insane. So where are you right now? I am in Iowa City, Iowa. Yes. Go Hawks. That's great. Thanks for joining us on the show today. Oh, my God. I'm so excited. Yeah. So we have a twist for you.

The twist is you and I are playing each other, all right? And I'd like you to meet the new host of the show, Teresa Greenfield, okay? Here's how this is gonna work. She is gonna ask some tough questions. Leslie Stahl level difficulty. That's what we're talking about. All right, perfect.

And our job without going over is gonna be to try to guess the price, okay? Are you ready, Cesar? Yes. All right, over to you, Teresa, without going over, is going to be to try to guess the price. Okay? Are you ready, Cesar? Yes. All right. Over to you, Teresa. Thank you so much for doing this.

Here we go. Question number one. All right. I'm asking for a friend. How much does it cost to buy a slice of breakfast pizza at Casey's? Oh, breakfast pizza, a slice. I don't know if we're talking about a six-slice pie or an eight-slice pie. I'm going to say $2.25.

Caesar? I want to say, I mean, yeah, I love Casey's Breakfast Pizza. Iowa Iconic. $2.50. Wow. $2.78. You guys would go hungry. Wow.

No, but he's closest without going over. Caesar got it. He got it. He's closest without going over. He got it. He got it. He's closest without going over. He got it. He got it. Oh, man. That was good, though. I feel good about that.

I don't feel like I've been caught out of touch yet. Yeah. And that question came from Iowa State Auditor Rob Sand, who's always bragging about Casey's breakfast pizza. Rob Sand. Wow. That guy's tricky. He gets in anywhere, you know?

All right. Question number two. All right. Let's do it. How many Democratic women do we have the chance to elect to Congress from Iowa this election? Got this one. Cesar, you go first. I have four.

Is it four? I was going to say three. I was going to say three. I was afraid to say four. You got it. I would have undercounted. Yeah. That's exciting.

Good job. All right, question number three. Here we go. Everyone should. All right. Question number three. Here we go. Everyone should know this one. Okay. Nerve wracking. How much is admission at the gate to the Iowa State Fair? Of course, it was different because last year we didn't have COVID.

This year we did, so we didn't have the state fair. So for 2019, what's the cost of admission to the Iowa State Fair? Oh, man. I just emotionally, I want it to be free. I want everybody to be able to walk into the fair. And then if you want to buy some deep-fried monstrosity, that's on you. That's what your dollars are.

I'm saying I'm going to go $0. I'm saying $0. Cesar? Man, I've never been, as an Iowan, I've never been to the Iowa State Fair. Isn't that insane? I know you had to pay for specific things in the Iowa State Fair. Well, it is $12.

$12. $12. Okay. I'll see you there next year. Okay. I got it. I got it. I promise you.

Question number four. How much money has Senator Joni Ernst taken from corporate PACs? And by the way, I have a plan to ban them. This is good. This is good. This question, I feel like has a political meaning. There's a goal. There's a political information here that's useful. I'm going to say $200,000. Cesar? I'm going to say more than that. So I'm going to say $300,000. She's taken more than that just from big oil. Try this.

$2.4 million. Wow. How many votes does Teresa take from corporate PACs? I'm going to say $0. I've got to say $0 there. I got this one. It'd be shocking if it wasn't $0 after that. Okay, this is our last question. Our last question. How many counties in Iowa voted for both President Obama and President Trump?

It's a good number of counties. I'm going to say it's a good number of counties. I'm going to say, Cesar, you guess first this time. You know, you should guess first. I don't know. You know, I don't want to color your answer. I know there's 99 counties in Iowa. So I guess I just gave you a hint, John. It's less than 99. Yeah, it is less than 99. I would say 35. I'm going to say 17. Technically, Price is Right rules, I should just say one, but I'm a gentleman. So I'm going to say 17. Cesar, you're pretty close. It was 31.

Wow. Wow. Yeah. And you know what? Iowans are a bunch of independent thinkers and voters, and we're going to be out there, and we have been out there, earning their votes in all 99 counties, but especially those 31 Obama-Trump counties. Cesar, you've won the game. I clearly lost. You've won the game. And so thank you so much for playing. And Teresa Greenfield, thank you for being such a good sport. Before we let you go, there's a lot of people listening.

It's the final 10 days. We've been proud to help raise money for you. We've been proud to do everything we can to help you get over the finish line. What can we do right now in this home stretch to help get you there? What help do you need right now from people outside of Iowa or inside Iowa? Yeah, absolutely. Well, we still, of course, are working hard to raise those resources so we can continue to respond to the GOP attack ads, which, by the way, are coming at us to the tune about $75 million. And then, hey, if you've got time to worry about how these elections are

going to turn out, you've got time to work. So sign up for a shift or two. Make some phone calls. Do some texting. Call your granny in Iowa and make sure she's voting and everybody in her senior center is voting. Get those senior center votes. All right. You've got older relatives in Iowa. Get those votes.

Teresa Greenfield, thank you so much for taking the time. I know you're in the final stretch here. It's a busy time, so I really appreciate it. And Cesar, thank you for playing and thank you for being a volunteer. When we come back, I talked to Olivia Troy. She was on the Mike Pence Coronavirus Task Force in the White House and left to help elect Joe Biden. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. She is the former White House Coronavirus Task Force advisor to Vice President

Pence, who left the White House and is now working to elect Joe Biden. Please welcome Olivia Troy. Olivia, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to join you. So I want to start by saying that I think what you've done is genuinely courageous, that other Republicans have maybe spoken out, but many, it seems, have done it for the record, sometimes behind closed doors, sometimes to reporters. But you have not just spoken out. You're actively campaigning to remove Donald Trump. I wanted to have you on the show when I first saw you speak out because I saw that there was so much raw emotion for you. And I saw somebody who I thought was genuinely grappling with moral questions, which has been so rare from people within this administration.

So I just wanted to thank you for that, honestly, and then ask you, what was for you the final straw, the final moment where you said, I have to not just leave, not just even speak out, but actively try to remove Donald Trump from office? You know, I had been there over two years in the White House, so I've seen numerous things that I think gave me pause along the way. But during the COVID pandemic, as the political sort of dynamics got harder and the election got closer, it became harder to overcome a lot of the obstacles. And I was seeing a lot of the good work that was attempted and all the dedication by the task force members and myself sort of being overshadowed consistently by the more White House senior political staff and the president himself. And I eventually resigned because I realized no matter what I do, I'm not going to be able to counter some of these dynamics. You know, when you're trying to

change the course of something or change remarks and things like that, and they're constantly changing guidelines and giving a narrative to play down the pandemic that just quite frankly isn't true. And it's lies. It's lying to the American people about what's really going on here. And so after my resignation, I took some time. I separated completely from government. I wanted to completely walk away from this situation and just time to process everything that I had experienced and kind of take time to process the feelings and emotions that I had had. And, you know, I'm a career Homeland Security practitioner. But after watching the president continue to gather

people at rallies, continue to perpetuate the narrative of saying that the mask wasn't important or leading by example by not wearing a mask and watching his complete disregard for the people even attending his rallies who were his base, his most loyal supporters, and the disregard for caring about their own well-being, right? Because we know that these are mass gatherings and in many cases they can be super spreader events. We saw that happen with the event of the Rose Garden. As time went on, I kept thinking to myself, this man is dangerous. And he continues to lie to the American people in a manner that I think is costing lives every single day. So I also want to just be honest and tell you that like,

I was also kind of conflicted. I do feel genuine gratitude for you taking this on. A lot of others have not shown that same level of bravery. A lot of others who are justifying, you've talked about this yourself, that you have colleagues at the White House who agree with you, but are finding justifications for why they're not speaking out. But at the same time, you know, those of us who have been on the outside, our great fear from the very beginning was that someone like Donald Trump, someone manifestly unfit, someone who's a liar, someone who's completely unqualified, would fail us in a crisis.

That was our great fear. You left the White House quite recently. It's after the Muslim ban. It's after family separation. It's after the refusal to denounce white supremacists. And I don't point this out purely to be hostile. I ask because I see you as someone trying to do the right thing. And I'm curious what you say to someone like me who says that sometimes I hear you speaking out, I feel appreciative of it. And

then I think, well, hold on a second. A little bit of this is why didn't I know then what everybody knew then? What do you say to sort of a frustrated liberal like me when I when I ask that? Well, I think you're right to be frustrated. To a certain extent, anyone involved in any part of this operation is complicit. And I own that. And it didn't matter. You know, I wasn't actually a political appointee. I was a career intelligence officer who was assigned to the vice president's office after

a year and a half into the administration. You know, I actually, I took a lot of heat when I was, when I decided to take the assignment and I got a lot of anger from friends who were really angry at the administration directed at me. And it's interesting, I'm getting a lot of anger now directed at me for leaving, right? So I just think that that shows where we are as a country. But I do think that the president's really responsible for that. And that's just not okay. And that's not who I am. And that's not what I want for all of us.

It's just awful. I solely took the assignment in the vice president's office because I felt like I would be able to contribute and try to make a difference. And I was watching what was happening with a lot of the executive orders. And it was hard. I worked on the travel ban. And it was incredibly challenging and difficult to implement such policies

that were just done so hastily and nonsensical as a career national security person to try to figure out how we were going to work on that. But and morally reprehensible, right? Like there was incompetence, right? But there's also malevolence in it. There is also calling on the bureaucracy to activate on an order that is ultimately cruel and discriminatory, right?

Right. There is a whole group of people out there, especially in government, that behind closed doors did everything we could to work with the situation and try to do our best to steer it or respond in the best way possible to create the least amount of damage in the long term, right, or implement it in the best way we could. But, you know, it's hard because right off the bat, this administration came at us, a lot of us, like as if we were the deep state. And they call us that and they mean it in a very demeaning way. And I think throughout the years and especially in the tenure that I spent in the White House, I mean, I certainly witnessed a lot of egregious things that, you that there were some people who I think were qualified for the roles because you were in an administration, to be honest, that I felt a lot of the jobs weren't filled with people that should have been filling them.

I know that's just brutally frank, and I'm sure I'll have colleagues who will be furious to hear me say that, but it's just the truth. I think for those of us that felt that we would do our best to help advise in the best way possible, even though at times, obviously, we were going to be overrided by the political forces at play, we certainly did our best to hang in there, especially, you know, for me during the COVID crisis, I've watched the doctors and some of the experts struggle morally every single day, when they're constantly being discredited publicly and they're constantly being undermined with everything they're advising on. And thank goodness that they have hung in there because the person that would likely fill that role after them would be nowhere near as credible or have the integrity that I have seen some of these people

possess. And we would be in a much worse place. I've heard you describe yourself as a John McCain Republican. And it's striking that even now, Lindsey Graham is no longer a John McCain Republican. You talked about how many people are either afraid to leave or afraid to speak out. There's been an unprecedented number of former officials speaking out against Trump. But at the same time, there's loyalty among the base. There's incredible loyalty amongst Republican politicians. What to you explains that level of capture? What is the hold that Donald Trump seems to have that there aren't more people who agree with you willing to tell the truth

right now? I think the problem is we have a Republican Party that has been hijacked. It's become sort of the Trump Republican Party in many ways, and that you're watching a lot of the GOP leadership cater to the Trump base. I think we've seen that when they don't fall in line with his footsteps, and they don't, you know, continue the narratives that he wants them to uphold and perpetuate, they face very, very hard elections ahead of them. And he comes after them. And he is quite vindictive. And the Trump machine is powerful, right? They go out of their way to discredit people. And it really is. It's a culture of fear. You know, I see it inside the

White House with people like me who have worked there or administration people or staffers behind the scenes who are just quite frankly, very scared to speak out because you don't know what they're going to say when you do it or how they're going to come after you and destroy you. In many cases, they'll destroy your life. Let me ask you this. Does Mike Pence ever break character? Does he ever let that facade down in a meeting? Does he ever reveal that he understands what's going on, that he's not just sort of doing this kind of obtuse performance? Rarely is what I will say. Rarely does he do that. Wow. Mike Pence is Mike Pence. So that's it. That expression never comes down. It's never like, okay, the cameras are off. We got to deal with this. I have to make sure I clean this up because this guy's an idiot and he's saying the wrong things. I had to find a way to spin this and talk about broad shoulders and

make something out of it to protect my own political force. There's no moment of reckoning. There's no moment where the kind of the mood changes with him. I've certainly seen the vice president struggle with a lot of a lot of issues. And I think he at times was in a very impossible position, especially in areas such as, you know, leading the COVID response and the task force. Because how do you lead a response and support? You have Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx and all these incredible people who are known to be experts on pandemics and should be leading the public health response. And we have these resources at the table for him. And I saw him consistently struggle with this dynamic over his head. And I'm sure it was hard. What was the worst thing you ever heard him say about Donald Trump?

I'm serious. What is the worst thing Mike Pence in your presence said about Donald Trump? I've never heard him say anything bad about Donald Trump, to be honest. He's been frustrated at times. He's never said, he said this that's not true. I have to go clean it up. He never said, oh, he's demeaning Fauci. That's going to cost people's lives. He's attacking masks. People are going to die because of this. He never said, he never broke and he never told the truth in a meeting about the damage that Trump was doing. I'm curious. So I would say he would engage in discussion. He certainly understood the importance of wearing a mask. And he said, you know, we should be doing the 15 days to slow the spread. I would say actually that it was the vice president who really had to go to bat on that issue because we needed to get ahead of what was happening

here domestically with the virus. But the vice president doesn't speak out about the president in that way. And he will not speak poorly as a president in meetings. That's just not who he is. That's not who Mike Pence is. That's not the way he behaves. And I mean, you know, he's a gentleman and I've seen him be a genuine human being. I will say that, that as a boss, he was always very kind to me. And I was not a political operative who had been on his campaign forever, right? There was a certain amount of trust that really had to be grown there, especially when you come in and, you know, you're in quotes, deep state, regardless, that's how people around

you sort of view you, even though you're working so hard. Yeah. That's just not who the VP is. And I don't think that Donald Trump allows for that environment or dynamic around him, because anybody who does speak out or doesn't really cater to his favors, you pay the price for it, I would say. There's no moment of honesty, even in these internal conversations about the damage Donald Trump is doing, that you have to go to a side room, you have to go to a small room, you have to pull somebody aside to have an honest conversation, but there is no reckoning. In a task force meeting, in this incredibly critical moment, the biggest obstacle to public health is the President of the United States. You're in the task force meeting, and there's not a discussion in that meeting about the harm that Trump is doing. Is that right? Well, so there are a lot of discussions behind closed doors, I will say, where people were

definitely at times very upset at what the president was saying publicly and some of the rhetoric about playing down the pandemic and the virus and the severity of it and what was happening because it quite frankly just wasn't true. We knew that it wasn't getting better. We knew that cases were going to better. We knew that cases were going to increase. And we discussed the fact that we would be facing a very, very hard winter if the number of cases on a daily basis did not decline. And right now we're watching it be higher than 50,000. And we know that that is going to be bad. Yeah. So we're discussions on, we really need the president to wear a mask. That discussion was had in the task force. I mean,

these statements were made. I remember Larry Kudlow talking about it. I remember Larry Kudlow himself saying, what's the problem with wearing a mask? Can't we just wear a mask? I mean, what is the big deal? Why is this even an issue when we know that that's just a basic way to try to slow the spread of the virus and protect each other? So let's just do it. I think that there's a very, very high level layer at the top between the president and his immediate circle of influence that just continues to double down on it. And you see, he gets COVID. He personally gets COVID himself and he still takes a mask off and parades around and pretends to be invincible. And that's just who this man is. You've taken this stand because you're afraid of what happens if Donald Trump is reelected.

What is your greatest worry about what happens if Donald Trump receives a second term? Whatever checks and balances were there during this term, that will be completely off the table. There will be no fear of, you know, re-election, if there even was fear to begin with. But whatever fear there was for him, that will no longer be a consideration. And I think that you're going to see this administration

double down on policies that I think we're actually both on the same page on. You're going to see them. I think that the anti-immigrant rhetoric will increase. I think that you're going to see policies such as the child separation policy, you're going to see that in full display go into effect even more so. And you're going to see the refugee ceiling drop. You're going to see issues in national security where he will put us in danger, even greater danger than he already has when it comes to our foreign adversaries. And he'll destroy some of the relationships that we still somehow have managed to have maintained with some of our allies. Well, Olivia Troy, thank you so much for being

here. Thank you for joining in this fight. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Let's hope we can win in 10 days. I hope so. Thank you to Olivia Troy for being here. We come back. I talked to a 16 year old who has helped build up a big following for Joe Biden on TikTok to help turn out the Gen Z vote. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. He's 16 years old. He's doing everything he can to elect Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Please welcome the creator of TikTok for Biden, Aiden Cohn-Murphy. Aiden, how you doing? I'm doing well, John. How are you? Great. So I am roughly double your age plus some years. I did download TikTok.

The algorithm realized that I wanted to see hot dudes glassblowing and various innovations in the grilled cheese space. Yeah, a lot of new innovations in grilled cheese these days. Yeah, yeah. But I didn't see a lot of political content. But I know that political content has been taking off as we get closer to the election. You've been part of helping Biden take off on TikTok. You have over 700,000 followers, over 300 plus creators that contribute to this channel. What sort of political content on TikTok works best?

Political TikTok is a very interesting place. I think it's a lot of our creators that are part of TikTok for Biden, which is now up to 500 people. We made some new additions, which is a lot of fun. Sorry, old data. So we're now up to about 500 people. And a lot of these people are TikTok creators who focus only on politics. But there are a lot of people who may not be incredibly politically engaged, but they care a lot about this election and want to use their platform for something good. And so I think that just shows that this election is not just about politics. It's about decency at large, that these people who normally wouldn't be that involved in politics just are getting involved. And so I think that that has made me feel happy about

my generation. Have you noticed a shift in how people talk about politics and how Biden is being treated? Are Bernie supporters more supportive of Biden now? Like what has been working for you as well? Like, as you've been trying to kind of get a positive pro-Biden message out there? Yeah. So that gets into the question of like, I know there's a whole settle for Biden movement and we get a lot of comments on the account saying like, are you pushing us to settle for Biden or to support him? Which always confused me because like Biden was not necessarily my first choice in the primary, which is true for a lot of other people.

But the notion of settle for Biden is recognizing that Biden is a significantly better choice than Trump, an infinitely better choice than Trump. There are a lot of people in the account, myself included, who are settling for Biden in that sense that they weren't, we weren't originally supporting him in the primary. But to settle for Biden doesn't mean that the messaging has to be they're both bad, Biden's a little bit better. Once we get into the lesser of two evils argument, we lose. And so what we are doing is we are making content specifically for young people about the issues that Gen Z and my generation cares about more than anything, which is climate change, gun control, education reform, prison reform, making content on these videos to talk

about Biden's policies and how progressive they are, and especially as compared to Trump. Like a lot of people have heard of the account, and especially in leadership, were Bernie or Warren people originally, but we are fully supporting Biden because like, I mean, I can't vote, but if I could vote, I would say I would not be that excited to vote for someone who everyone says, oh, let's just settle for him. You know what I mean? So I think that we are emphasizing the specific good things about Biden's policies rather than just saying they're both bad. Biden's better. How is how big is Trump TikTok? How is there any funny pro Trump TikTok? What are we talking about? So there is a TikTok for Trump. Like they they they spun off, not spun

off. They're not associated with us, but they were created right after, I think they have, like, 10,000 followers, which is not bad, but we have over 700,000. Their first video,

it was like, they got a voice modulator and it was like, you thought Biden, you TikTok for Biden would go unrecognized. Oh, well,

here we are. And then it showed, like, 40 people who were part of the account and 39 of them were white. So no surprises there. So funny, not on purpose. What are you finding like works best for getting Gen Z? For those listening, there's a Gen Z for Biden sign behind Aiden. What are you

finding is helping you get members of your generation on board now? Using timely things and making them political, things and making them political, but not making them political, recognizing they're political. Like one of, I think our most popular video, honestly, we made for National Coming Out Day. And we had a number of LGBTQ creators, myself included, make a video about Coming Out Day. And that video now has like 4 million views, which is pretty successful. And all of the comments, there were so many comments saying like, you made me, you empowered me to And all of the comments, there were so many comments saying like, you made me, you empowered me to come out to my parents

or you made me feel comfortable with who I am. And those are just so incredible to see. And I think that what we're realizing is that videos like that, where showing people that the things they care about more than anything, like things that young people care about is intrinsically tied to politics. And I think that that was part of the shift from like non-political creators posting political things, because I think a lot of people didn't realize the role that politics played in

their life until Corona for one thing, and until Trump on a larger scale, because with Corona, we are just every single day we are, we are waiting and we are depending on Trump to take action and let us live our lives again. And I think that Corona has just showed my generation that like anything you want done, anything you care about, even if you don't think it's political, it is political. Hang out with your friends is political now because it's not happening because of Trump. Last question.

All right. If we get Biden in, if we can do this, we can get this done. Do you want to start fighting to get the voting age lower to 16? I do. I do. And if we can do this, we can get this done. Do you want to start fighting to get the voting age lower to 16? I do. I do. In D.C., we were a single vote shy from letting 16-year-olds vote on the council. And we were so close.

I do. What I've especially learned from here and talking to my friends is that, yeah, 16-year-olds, a lot of them are incredibly politically knowledgeable. But even if those who aren't, we don't have a test that you'll have to take to vote if you're 18. So, yeah. All right, good. Aiden, thanks for everything you're doing. You're incredibly well-spoken. You're not just a TikTok teen for Biden. You're a smart and engaged

and capable teen for Biden. Thank you for being here. And let's go win this thing. Let's win this thing. Thank you, John. Get the teens. You go get the teens. We will. All right. You get Gen Z. I'll do my best with the millennials. Millennials the millennials. And we just have to get enough of us together to overwhelm the boomers. And, you know, Gen X can help. They can unite against the boomers. When we come back, we'll end on a high note. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. Hey, if you made it this far, you must have really liked this show. Thank you. That's great. You know what else you'll probably like? The Crooked Store, where you could stock up on sweatshirts, tees, gifts, and accessories from Vote Save America and all your favorite Crooked pods, including this one.

Find it all at crooked.com slash store. And we're back. Because we all need it this week, here it is. This week's High Note, submitted by our listeners. Hey, love it. This is Alex. I'm calling from New York, but originally from Massachusetts. My parents, who are both lifelong Republicans, have voted for Republicans for president, literally since I've been alive, have both informed me that they are voting for Joe Biden this year, the first Democrat they've ever voted for for president. And my dad, who is a dentist, also said Kamala has nice teeth. So that's a win as well. Thanks. Hey, Lubbock. This is Lisa in Austin, Texas. And the absolute highlight of my week

was taking my 19-year-old son to vote for the very first time and voting for Democrats up and down the ballot. Thanks very much for all you do. Hi, John Lovett. This is Erin in Tennessee. The high note that I have for you is that I've been going on walks several days a week for sometimes an hour each time. It's just one small thing that I'm able to do is take my health back into my hands during what's arguably a very, well, let's say challenging time.

But I feel great. I feel better about myself and my mental health is definitely benefiting from it. I already voted in this early voting period and it felt great to vote for Joe Biden. So that's my high note. Thanks. I love it. My name is Felipe and I'm from Reno, Nevada, and I'm a United States Marine Corps veteran. You know, I've been working on a friend to register to vote since the election, since 2016, before that election.

He is also a Marine, and he lives in Texas, and I finally got him to register over the phone. I helped him fill it out, And he's a registered voter in Texas and he will be voting them. So very proud, very happy. Thank you. Thank you to everybody who submitted those high notes. If you want to leave us a message

about something that gave you hope in the home stretch, you can call us at 323-521-9455. And thank you to everybody who's been sharing those stories. There are 10 days until the election. Sign up for Vote Save America right now to elect Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, hold the House, win back the Senate, and elect Democrats up and down the ballot.

Thank you to Ira Madison III, Teresa Greenfield, Alex Wagner, Guy Branum, Olivia Troy, and Aiden Cohn-Murphy. Thank you to everyone out there volunteering and calling and texting and donating and spending every waking moment trying to win this election. Ten days left. Let's win this thing and have a great weekend. Thank you.