Lovett or Leave It - Don Jr.'s Convention Bump

Episode Date: August 29, 2020

We watched the RNC on your behalf so where are our fireworks? Kara Swisher joins for the monologue and shares her memories of an earlier iteration of Kim Guilfoyle in San Francisco. Alicia Garza returns to discuss the protests in Wisconsin in the wake of the Jacob Blake shooting. Alex Morse talks about his progressive primary challenge to incumbent Congressman Richard Neal. And Erin Ryan and Guy Branum help us sort through the lies and play OK, Stop after Trump's superspreader event on the White House lawn. Awful week. Packed show. 66 days until the election. If you haven't signed up at votesaveamerica.com yet, now is the time.

Welcome to the 25th episode of Love It or Leave It, Back in the closet John Lovett's back in the closet John Lovett's back in the closet John Lovett's back in the closet He's still straight shooting But he's back in the closet That incredible song was sent in by Nicholas Connors And we want to use a new one each week So if you want to make a theme song You can send it to us at

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votesaveamerica.com slash adopt. Also, there's a new episode of Missing America out now. This week, Ben talks to an anonymous Hong Kong activist about the daily marches and protests taking place in Hong Kong, and they sound the alarm on the dangers of growing authoritarianism. New episodes of Missing America are out on Tuesdays. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. So we've been recording all week, so you'll hear some segments from Tuesday, some from Wednesday, some from Thursday, as we cover the Republican National Convention and everything else that's been going on this week. We'll be joined by Guy Branum and Aaron Ryan to talk about the RNC. We'll talk to Alicia Garza about the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Wisconsin and the protests that have followed. And we'll talk to Mayor Alex Morse about his primary challenge

to Congressman Richard Neal. But first, she's a journalist, co-founder of Recode and co-host of the podcast Pivot. Please welcome back returning champion Kara Swisher. Hi, how you doing? How's it going? Thank you for being here. Thanks for agreeing to judge the monologue. Let's get into it. What a week. What a week. We are recording this on Wednesday, which means we have witnessed the first two days of the Republican convention, and boy, am I triggered. Yeah. You feel triggered, Kara? It's all supposed to be so triggering. No, I'm not. I'm not going to let this bother me. I'm not going to let the craziness get to me. Are you ready? Because I've written what I believe is the best joke maybe in history. Go for it.

Let me hear it. Let me hear it. So you just need to know that this is as good as it gets in terms of comedy. Or is it a Hatch Act joke? Because most of America doesn't care about the Hatch Act. I feel like it's not a winner for the Democrats. Here it is. With this RNC, we've replaced Eva Longoria with even longer and boring-er.

No. It's not boring. It's also not boring, right? No, that's really bad. It's not boring. So you just take issue with the substance. Obviously, it's a great, truly great joke, but the substance didn't work for you. No, it's not a truly great joke at all because it's not boring.

It's not boring. It's so you can't look away. You cannot look away, whether it's Melania in the Rose Garden, whether it's the breakdown of Kimberly Guilfoyle, which was just, and then the memes that have the Don Jr. situation, whatever it is, let's not judge. Let's not judge. Yeah.

Melania looked like she was leading a junta at Vogue. I know. Exactly. Someone was saying, I wonder how much she was paid to walk down the colonnade. She got rid of the trees so they could do a catwalk kind of situation. Did you notice that? There was a catwalk. Is that right?

So they could have the crane shot? I guess. I don't know. It is very interesting to watch, whether it's Tim Scott, who did very well, to compare and contrast them and how the stories they're putting out. And I think it's interesting. There's no question it's not interesting. I do think one of the lessons that I take away from how this convention has unfolded is that when the quote unquote normal politicians, Tim Scott, Nikki Haley, Pompeo, Rand Paul, what have you, how comfortable a lot of political coverage is with Trumpism when it is put in the language of normal politics.

That's what I mean. Yes. When it's not the kind of raving Kim Guilfoyle or Don Jr. or Eric, when it's not the kind of obvious norm violating, when it's the kind of more insidious brand, people are quite comfortable with it. And that's dangerous. Well, my mom, a Fox News watcher, was like, that Tim Scott is lovely. And I was like, oh, God.

And what I'm interested in how they're trying really hard to make it seem like a lot of women, a lot of people of color, you can watch them like going, ah, we need this here. You can sort of see, like all politicians do this, of course. But it's really, you can just watch the pieces being put in place in this particular show. Oh, yes. It's very on paint by numbers. It's not subtle at all. It's like, we need to win Maine. Let's talk about the lobsters in Maine. We need to win with these voters in Florida.

So let's get someone to talk about Cuba and socialism. We need to up our support from suburban women. So let's get testimonial from Kellyanne Conway. It's like they're going through their checklist of people they want to reach. Yep, 100%. Wisconsin and the dairy. I's like they're going through their checklist of people they want to reach. Yep. A hundred percent. Wisconsin and the dairy. I mean, they've done it all. So ahead of the convention, the party announced that there was no 2020 platform this year other than to reassert

the party's strong support for President Donald Trump and his administration. But based on the first two nights, I think the Republican message is clear. America is the greatest country in the history of the world on the verge of total collapse. It's an extremely free country where we have been silenced and oppressed. We are strong, but we are powerless victims. Democrats are responsible for mass incarceration, which is bad. And now they want to empty the prisons, which is also bad. Democrats only hate Trump and they have no policies. This is in contrast to the Republicans who love Trump and have one policy, a policy of loving Trump. Democrats celebrate criminals like Black Lives Matter protesters who haven't broken any laws, while Republicans

celebrate non-criminals like that gun couple that was charged with a felony. The best Republican is Donald Trump, who worked tirelessly to free American citizens who were held hostage by dictators who, Trump must admit, were very nice to him. Trump must admit this on camera. And though the segment is pre-recorded, it must not be edited out for reasons that must remain mysterious. But most important of all, America is not racist. Just take it from these racists. Yeah. Yeah. You got it. That's pretty good. That's a pretty good. You forgot immigration in there. The immigration segment. Oh, right. God, yes. And we are, of course, a nation that celebrates people who become citizens while I do my best to prevent anyone from immigrating to this country. And right now, right now, Trump is slowing down naturalization ceremonies

to prevent immigrants from being able to vote. That was the worst, I think, of all of it. That was the most appalling. It was an insult to people who want to be American citizens. And it was just to use them as props was really, really depressing. That was a depressing moment. It was very sad. It was very hard to watch

because it takes something beautiful and wonderful and good and just sullies it and something beautiful and wonderful and good and just sullies it and makes it vulgar and for Trump. Vulgar. I've said this before, but there's a quality of fighting Trump's authoritarian tendencies that's a bit like fighting a pandemic in that the steps you take to prevent the decline of our democracy, if they succeed, look like overkill in hindsight. Sure do.

But what is striking to me in this moment, and this is actually true when you go back and read about authoritarian rises in other places, it is always a combination of danger and stupidity. They do go hand in hand. They do. There is a ridiculousness that is part and parcel with the threat that it poses.

And it's strange to live through it, to see it in real time. How is it that everything can be so important and so stupid at the same time? It's strange to live through it, to see it in real time. How is it that everything can be so important and so stupid at the same time? It's hard to process. The issue is this is someone who has authoritarian tendencies, but is somewhat incompetent. So the question is, what if we're really competent, a relatively competent? It doesn't take that much to be a bully. It really doesn't. It takes a few different things, seizing the media, attacking the media, attacking institutions.

You know, it's sort of a playbook. There's an authoritarian playbook. But I think it's really hard to know if he can follow through on them. Like you think about all the things, the wall didn't really work. A lot of it does work, of course, the quiet stuff that's behind the scenes. But a lot of the louder stuff, or maybe that's the point, is to make us exhausted by the entire thing one after the next. And I think it does play into this. You know, I always talk about tech, but the social media exhaustion, it floods the zone in such a way that it's impossible to police. Impossible. So the hat jack, we're going to let that one go.

Like, oh, whatever. He's using the White House. Like we do a lot of whatever's because we can't like over here, someone's in real distress versus over here where they're just sort of shoplifting and stuff like that. You know, there's this, I think, conventional wisdom, which I actually think is fair, that impeachment as an issue is in many ways counterproductive. But that doesn't mean it wasn't right to impeach him because we don't live in the counterfactual world where Democrats are demoralized because no one ever stood up to this person and went through the motions of impeachment as he's breaking the law again and again. In the same way, I understand why there's this sort of political argument against focusing on norm violation, because there's this presumption that people don't care. But my two issues there are one, well,

people have a funny way of caring about the things you tell them to care about. There's no kind of straight media for the guileless American that tells people what's important and what's not while the political pundits analyze how that message is received. There's only political analysis. And if you all decide collectively that people don't care, that's how the media will tell them not to care. But the other piece of this is I wonder what it would feel like now if there was a more proactive, what it would feel like now if there was a more proactive, aggressive, democratic point person in the House who just was like a goalie that never let anything go by? That's Cortez, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, really. Well, with the support of the institution. Right. Yeah. I mean, there's a number of them. There's a number of people who do pushback. There's Katie Porter.

There's all kinds of people who push back super hard on lots of things. The question is, how long can you look like the opposition? Fair enough. Like how long? Then you do sort of fall into that complaint. It's sort of like being in the press talking about Facebook. You know, it took a long time before everyone was like, oh, look, Kara, not many of the others are right.

But it took a long time of people saying, aren't you going to shut up about that? You know what I mean? A long time before people started to pay attention. And so I think it's really hard to constantly be in opposition because you just are like, you look like sort of a scold. And that's really the, what's really interesting about that, the convention, the Republican convention, it's looked so, I don't know how old you are, but it looked like the eighties. It felt like the eighties. I was like, oh my God, we're back in like, I don't know, the big booming 80s of New York kind of thing. Even the colors, it was the way the garden looked, the way she looked, and all those sort of Barbie doll women that came up one

after the next. It was really interesting that we're not in the 2020s, I'll tell you that. My most vivid memory of the 1980s is seeing the film Batteries not included in the 2020s, I'll tell you that. My most vivid memory of the 1980s is seeing the film Batteries not included in the theater. I don't know. So. That movie. What movie is that? The Little Aliens, they come down

and they help an apartment complex in either Brooklyn or the Bronx from a rapacious developer. So sort of fit the moment. I believe Jessica Tandy was in it. All right. I'm thinking more flash dance and lifestyles of the rich and famous

and Dallas and dynasty and that kind of stuff. That's what it feels like. A lot of shoulder pad. I have a shoulder pad feel for the whole thing. Yes. This convention is in many ways a shoulder pad on the conservative movement. You know, false and puffed

up and ultimately in hindsight, something we'll come to regret. Speaking of some of these other speakers, anti-immigration activist Mary Ann Mendoza was scheduled to speak at the RNC, but after it was discovered that she tweeted anti-Semitic conspiratorial messages, she was pulled from the convention lineup and given Kellyanne Conway's job. Yeah. Oh, she was? No, that's a joke. Okay, good.

You see, I believed it because it could happen. Oh, that's so dark. It could happen. Look, Richard Grinnell is running national security and making ads for Log Cabin, so don't even today with me, you know. We're not going to stop. I can't.

We're not. The gays cannot speak. The gays cannot speak of this gay. That's all I'm going to say, right? We just have to be quiet and be like that guy. Nope. That guy. That guy. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like it. I don't like it. No. Legal experts, legal experts are saying that the Republican National Convention is violating the Hatch Act. Specifically, Donald Trump Jr. violated the Hatch Act, which forbids speakers from looking like they emerged or hatched from some kind of large, gooey alien egg. That's not that.

Don Jr. gave a speech with the glassy eyes of a once-celebrated TV actor who keeps coming back from the bathroom at Hakkasan excited to talk about writing a memoir. I don't know. It was the Red Bull. In fact, he made a video with Richard Grinnell. I was like, oh, I don't know. It was the Red Bull. In fact, he made an ad. He made a video with Richard Grinnell.

I was like, oh, I didn't want it. The low point of the broadcast was when Don Jr.'s girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoyle, woke me up from a sound sleep. I do think it's an absurd suggestion that Don Jr. was on drugs because Kimberly Guilfoyle spoke with the passion of a woman who finished the drugs.

She's, her transfer me. You know, I knew her back in San Francisco when she was married to Gavin Newsom. She was a different lady. Although- Any insights? I'll tell you. I'll tell you one story I'm going to tell you. There was an event, a gay event. She appeared in his stead when he was mayor. And I forget, it was like Human Rights Fund, National Gay and Lesbian, whatever. One of those dinners. You've been to a million of them, right? Sure, you bet.

And so I was sitting sort of near the front. And, you know, it's a San Francisco crowd, so it can take a lot. You know what I mean? You can be pretty dirty there. You know, it can be wild and stuff like that. Her speech was so filthy. Like, I enjoyed it. That Even the gays of San Francisco were

like, stop, please. Our ears. I was sort of like, whoa, she's an interesting person. She's naughty. She's naughty. It was a naughty speech, let me just say. We have learned from one thing about Kimberly Guilfoyle, which is whatever she's going for, she's going 100%. Going 100%. And she was so liberal. I remember. It was like so liberal.

So I love San Francisco. So this and that. And then she's maintained the same level of intensity. That's for sure. That's for sure. And I think in her speech, Kim did what she set out to do, which is get to the prenup negotiation phase. Also this week, the president of Liberty University, Jerry Falwell Jr., resigned after it came to light that he used the evangelical school's money to pay a hotel pool attendant to sleep with his wife while he watched.

This must be so humiliating for Falwell, which is turning him on as we speak. Don't, don't. I can't. You know what? I'm not going to shame him for his thing. I'm not shaming him. Yeah, you are. I'm not shaming. You think I'm shaming him?

No. I say, have your fun, Jerry Falwell Jr. Just stop telling the rest of us how to live. Agreed, agreed. That is really where the rubber meets the road. Wildfires continue to rage in Northern and Central California, the largest of which was spurred

by the rare weather phenomenon of dry lightning during a widespread heat wave. This follows an incredibly destructive storm in Iowa. As we are recording this, a potentially devastating hurricane is heading towards the Gulf Coast. But on the bright side, nothing comes to mind. Nothing comes to mind. Also this week, the CDC quietly revised its recommendations, now claiming people without COVID-19 symptoms do not need testing, despite research showing that about half of transmission events occur before any symptoms have presented themselves at all. But most experts agree that the continuation of asymptomatic testing is necessary and preventative, like brushing your

teeth an hour before bed because you don't know for sure that when the edible hits are going to go for the cookie dough, but you can take steps now to make it less likely. I mean, hypothetically. Hypothetically. Hypothetically. This week, a UNC study found that wearing your mask below your nose could increase your risk of catching the coronavirus. It sounds obvious, but it's actually a really surprising reason. The coronavirus can go in your nose. Yeah. Can go in your nose.

What kind of mask do you have? Do you have the plain old one or a fancy one? I cycle through the kind of surgical masks, through cloth masks, and I have some of those KN95s. Oh. Depending on how the mood strikes me. Yeah. I'm just wondering if you match your clothes with your mask and you do that kind of thing. So I don't do that. I do not.

and you do that kind of thing. So I don't do that. I do not. The homosexuality in me probably will not and has not allowed me to wear a black mask with a Navy shirt or a Navy mask with a black shirt. I will not do that. That will not happen. Okay.

But otherwise, I've been pretty forgiving in terms of fashion. Well, you're kind of a straight guy, gay guy, right? Seems like with that hat. I sort of reject the premise of that. I see. Okay, all right. You can reject it, I reject the premise of that. I see. Okay. All right. You can reject.

I reject the heteronormative idea. The way that I dress is gay because a gay person dresses that way. I see. Interesting. How about that? You are. Okay, fine.

You are a lesbian as I've always long maintained. And look, I love a skinny jean. I love a colorful shoe. I love a pink pant. I limit myself to some darker t-shirts, but honestly, mostly that's because when I was doing live shows, I love a pink pant. I limit myself to some darker t-shirts.

But honestly, mostly that's because when I was doing live shows, I just like profusely sweat. Yeah, yeah. And that's not a gay or straight thing. No, no. I don't think. No, no. I don't believe so. Should probably keep moving.

Yeah, keep moving. Keep going. Emily Miller, the new spokesperson for the FDA, is a former political strategist who has shared coronavirus misinformation and conspiracy theories on social media. Look, over 175,000 people in the U.S. have died from COVID. And I'm just glad somebody is trying to get that number down. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what to say. There's nothing to say.

Nothing to say. That we have empowered the worst human beings in public life. Yes, we have. Of all the misinformation, there's so many. The COVID misinformation, like, you know, Peter Navarro. I just can't believe. That's the kind of thing that drives me crazy. And they continued clinging to hydroxychloroquine.

The fact that these recommendations on COVID testing are after pressure from Trump, that he is not just in the way of solving this. He is actively making our jobs harder. The head of the FDA had to walk back his statements. He's a doctor. I think he's an oncologist. It's malpractice of some sort. It's really, that surprises me the most. I mean, look, Navarro is crazy, right? Obviously, you can see every time he opens his mouth. But like these other people that then go along with it, I just don't, I don't know what kind of thing goes in your head when you have to do that. I just don't.

There are people who just haven't thought deeply about what it looks like to do the right thing. And there's no siren blaring. There's no one making it easy. And a lot of denial. I guess. And a lot of cravenness. Craven grifters.

Yes, craven grifters. Craven's a good word. I'm going to use that word. It is. It is because it captures both selfishness and cowardice. Right. And greed. And greed. And greed. That's right. Greed and cowardice. I would say that's right. That's right. Yeah. Nice, nice word. The University of Alabama said that 531 cases have been identified among students, faculty, and staff since class resumed at its Tuscaloosa campus last week. This leads us to conclude that coronavirus spreads faster on college campuses than other major threats like leftism, turning ultimate Frisbee into an identity, and majoring in communications. You know, my son is in quarantine at NYU right now. Oh, really?

Oh, yeah. Zoom classes from my dorm room in college. I know, right? I know, not the experience you hope for. No, and he missed the prom, everything else that, yeah. Zoom classes from my dorm room in college. I know, right? I know. Not the experience you hope for. No, and he missed the prom, everything else. These students will be interesting how they are later. They're going to be weird in ways we can't predict. No, that's true.

These super spreaders. And look, some of us didn't go to prom, and it wasn't because of coronavirus. Oh, okay. That's all I'll say. I went to four proms. That's all I'll say. Listen. I was very popular.

You know what? Only a person with the confidence of having gone to four proms could make wearing sunglasses indoors part of her brand. Quattro proms. That's the only one. Four proms. Why didn't you go to I feel bad? Do you want me to take you to a prom or something?

No, I don't. I'm really good at it. The British government, in an attempt to help the restaurant economy, has started an initiative that pays 50% of any diner's bills on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays.

Meanwhile, the U.S. government has this idea to promote the economy where they divide the country into districts, and each district sends two young people to the capital for a special kind of competition, kind of like the Olympics.

But get this, it's life or death. Is it risky? Sure it is. But the ratings have been amazing. The music from the Republican National Convention sounds like the Hunger Games. Did you notice that in between? I did notice it.

I mean, really what it is, is that the Hunger Games music is inspired by fascistic music. And the Republican Party is now a proto-fascistic right-wing movement. And so they are aligning. But it was the music they play when someone dies. Remember when they put everyone on those?

Yeah, yeah. Listen to it. I was like, it sounds exactly the same. And finally, on Monday, TikTok sued the U.S. government accusing the Trump administration of depriving it of due process when President Trump issued an executive order

to block the app in the U.S. TikTok said they will only drop the charges if Donald Trump films himself sitting in a chair That would be nice. That would be nice. TikTok. TikTok. Do you use TikTok? You know, I deleted it from my phone, both because of, I think... The China virus? The China virus.

But also because I found that... It reminds me, like David Carr said this about Twitter, that you dip a finger in and it bites off your arm. And what I found is with TikTok, you could just scroll and scroll and scroll. And the algorithm, you know, it first was showing me hot guys cooking, glass blowing and furniture and slowly got down to my interests, which are hot guys and new ways of making grilled cheese. And I was like, this is getting out of control. I got to get this thing off my phone. I do not think this is good for my brain. Yeah. Kara Swisher, thank you so much for being here, as always. So good to see you. I appreciate it. Have a good week. I hope you enjoy the rest of the convention. Thanks to Kara Swisher for joining us so much for being here, as always. Thank you, John. So good to see you. I appreciate it. Have a good week. I hope you enjoy the rest of the convention.

Thanks to Kara Swisher for joining us. When we come back, we'll be joined by Alicia Garza. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. She is the principal of Black Futures Lab, co-creator of Black Lives Matter, host of the podcast Lady Don't Take No. Alicia Garza, welcome back. Good to see you. Thank you so much for having me. It's good to be with you again. futures lab co creator of black lives matter host of the podcast lady don't take no alicia garza

welcome back good to see you thank you so much for having me it's good to be with you again thanks for taking the time so i want to start by talking about jacob blake a black man who was shot seven times in the back by a white police officer while his kids were sitting in the car protests have erupted and then last night there was a young white man who killed two people in kenosha he was just arrested. And there's been some pretty shocking comments from the police chief there. What are you seeing as these protests unfold that looks different or that has changed since protests erupted after George Floyd's killing? How is this story changing?

And how is it not changing? Let's start with how it's not changing. You know, at the same time that we're seeing all of these very brutal videos and murders, we are also in the midst of the Republican National Convention, which they haven't really made mention of the various murders that have happened across the country. But they are actually running on a platform of law and order while also not doing much to establish a law and order that is just and that actually saves Black lives. I think what we're also seeing is protests across the country

that have not stopped since the murder of George Floyd that certainly are reminiscent of the protests that we've been seeing in this country since 2013 with the acquittal of George Zimmerman, 2014 with the murder of Mike Brown and the subsequent refusal to hold accountable Officer Darren Wilson. And the list of names goes on and on. I think what is different is that we are actually seeing such a wide swath of America participating in these protests. Right before I jumped on to talk with you, I saw the NBA and some of the teams are refusing to play today to bring attention to the fact that over and over we are seeing Black death be justified.

And we're not actually seeing the kind of policy change or the change in our culture or practice that can frankly prevent these kinds of deaths and these kinds of murders. And so on the one hand, I'm feeling like, here we go again, right? And what is it going to take, actually, to ensure the dignity and well-being of everybody in this country? to ensure the dignity and well-being of everybody in this country. And on the other hand, I have a deep amount of hope and gratitude to all the people who refuse to shut it down.

And when I look at what happened in Wisconsin today and last night, I think that it's an unfortunate consequence of there being no consequences. And what we're learning about this young man who was 17 years old is that he was being groomed to be a police officer. And yet we're still tap dancing around what it means to hold police accountable when policing goes wrong in our communities. We're still tap dancing around what it means to establish and ensure that people can live full and dignified lives. I think about the sibling of Jacob Blake, who literally said, all of my life, I've been watching

this kind of dynamic happen. All of my life, I've been surrounded by this kind of death. Nobody in this country should have to make that kind of statement. And what we need in this moment is real and clear and concise leadership that has a plan for that, that's not just going to trot out Black people to help hold up their agenda, but in fact is going to address what's happening in Black communities across this nation. And unfortunately, we're certainly not seeing it with this president. And unfortunately, we're certainly not seeing it with this president. We'll see what happens in November. But I have to say, there are some big changes that need to be made. And we do need to see some increased courage amongst our political leaders, because we

just spent the last week every single day talking about Black Lives Matter, whether it be in alphabet blocks behind Elizabeth Warren, or whether it be with the First Lady. But yet when it comes to actually making Black Lives Matter, we're hearing too much silence in the face of unmitigated murder and death. This Republican convention, as it's been unfolding, it's not just that the Republicans seem to have a message that's meant to assuage white supporters, like we're not racist, like you don't need to feel bad about America, which is another way of saying you don't need to feel bad about Trump.

Donald Trump in his words and actions and now in this convention has elevated people like that St. Louis gun couple, elevated people who take matters into their own hands, praising the people that showed up in Charlottesville. Even if you accept that what he's talking about is people defending a statue, which of course he wasn't talking about. You are still talking about vigilantism in defense of

the white prerogative to celebrate the Confederacy or what have you. So it seems like they're both trying to sort of claim that the U.S. is not a racist country to defend Trump and his supporters while also elevating people like this boy who was sort of patted on the back even by police as this was unfolding. That's right. Now, on the other hand, we now see today something extraordinary, which is NBA teams refusing to play until they can talk to the AG of Wisconsin. What impact do you think that has? I mean, even just last night there was a video of Doc Rivers, a coach, talking about how much this has hurt him, how this affects him deeply. What does it do when people outside of politics, when athletes, leaders like this, take on this mantle?

Well, I think what it does is it proves that this is actually a movement. And it makes me emotional, really, to know that these players are putting their livelihoods on the line because somebody else's life was taken away. And they're not doing that to have a platform. They're using their platforms in ways that are strategic. As you said, they're refusing to play until they can meet with the attorney general to talk about what kind of accountability will be meted out. But I would also assume that what they want to have a conversation about is what are you doing long term to ensure that black lives are not being extinguished in this way? And that's important. It's important to me to see people like LeBron James tweeting today.

And I believe, you know, his exact words were, fuck this man, like, stop killing us. Right. And I think that that it hits in all of our guts. And, you know, right now we are watching the most extreme faction of this country try to hold on to power. And we are seeing a movement that is emerging and growing because of their obstinance and because of their dedication to actually ensuring that only some lives matter. And it's really not rocket science. What we're seeing is things that we've seen over and over again. When Dylann Roof walked into a church in Charleston years ago and murdered people, what we know is that Dylann Roof is still alive.

What we know is that police offered him Burger King before taking him into custody. It's the same with this young man in Wisconsin. So much of the time, we see these very stark contrasts. Jacob Blake is somebody who was de-escalating a conflict. He was somebody who was breaking up a fight. He was somebody who was a father and a son and a brother. And, you know, by the grace of God, he's still alive. Of course, all that we're hearing is that he's currently paralyzed from the waist down because he was shot in the back seven times as he was walking away. But then, of course, when we see this kind of aggression that is being encouraged by this president who calls himself a leader, we also see a way in which we're validating people taking the law into their own

hands under the guise of law and order. And for a 17-year-old, right, to pick up a gun and to go to a protest and to shoot multiple people, killing at least one person, I can't help but think to myself, you know, at 17, I had my whole life in front of me. At 17 years old, I was thinking about what kind of an adult I was going to be. This young person picked up a gun and murdered somebody. And, you know, he doesn't have any more life in front of him, quite frankly, unless this president uses his power to do what he's been doing, which is pardon people for doing the wrong thing, rather than using his power and his platform to lift what he's been doing, which is pardon people for doing the wrong thing,

rather than using his power and his platform to lift people up who are doing the right thing. So again, I feel emotional when I see people, you know, taking steps to use their platforms to make change. And I think it's something that every single American needs to do right now. This is not a time to encourage vigilantism. This is a time for us to be coming together to change the direction that this country has gone in. And frankly, I worry that things are coming to a boiling point. It's been talked about in other kinds of violence like this, but like stochastic terrorism, this idea that when someone like Trump just pumps all this hate into this world, pumps all this negativity, this divisiveness, this fear saying, oh, there's going to be chaos.

They're going to burn down the suburbs. They're going to come for you. They're coming for you. He is not directing any one person to take action. He's not telling any one person to be a vigilante. But if you say it enough, you can expect that out there, there will be people that follow Trump's words to its logical conclusion. This kid went to a Trump rally.

He's been paying attention. Whatever we learn about this boy, whatever was wrong, whatever happened here, what we can be sure of is that he was not misunderstanding Donald Trump. That's right. And so it seems like we have to do two things. We have to figure out how to cordon off

this contagious idea being spread by the president about vigilantism, while at the same time, figuring out the positive message that we all have to share and put out there. So it's a terrifying prospect, because it does feel as though there's a bunch of other people out there just like this who are watching this unfold right now. And the vast majority of people are horrified, but enough people are going to think it's a pretty cool idea. I agree with you 100%. And whether it be the couple out of St. Louis to this young person last night, I think what is real is that this president is relying on fear and anxiety as a

platform for his own power. And that's really the saddest part of all of this is that so many people are being swept up into his chaos that really only benefits him. That couple in St. Louis, you know, their economic status is not going to change. You know, their lives are not going to change for the better because of this president. But he's selling snake oil for his own personal benefit. And that's what makes it so terrible. You know, I have to be honest here. When I think about what's happening in Wisconsin, I just can't help but think like, actually, Jacob Blake's family is traumatized and they are losing so much. And also the family of this young man must be traumatized knowing that their 17-year-old

child, you know, picked up a gun and shot people and killed a person. And when I think about all of these lives that are being shattered right now, I can't help but think that none of this is necessary. Absolutely none of it. It is actually all preventable. And the first way that we prevent this is by preventing the most extreme faction of the worst part of our humanity from continuing to hold power in this country. I know you and I have been talking about this now for years. And, you know, at first we start off and we're like, oh, oh, my God, how could this have happened? Right. But also let's make the best of it until we get to 2020. Well, here we are. We are in 2020. We are just 70 days away from the most consequential election

in my lifetime. And if we don't like what's going on in this country right now, regardless of how you feel about the police or Black Lives Matter or what the fuck ever, one thing you can know is that you can change the direction that this country is headed in. Black Lives Matter is not the greatest threat to this nation. Quite frankly, the man who sits in the White House and the people who support him are the greatest threat to democracy that this country has ever seen. And if you don't want to see democracy crumble before your eyes, you have a very clear choice in November. And I'm not even talking about candidates. I'm talking about making sure that your voice is heard.

And frankly, I'm just going to say it. Joe Biden wasn't my first, second, third, fourth or eighth choice. In fact, he wasn't on my roster. But because of what I'm seeing every single day, I am working like hell to register every person I possibly can to make sure that people know how they can participate and to make sure that people know what decisions, right, are on the ballot besides the personalities and the people. Because I can guarantee you right now, every vote that is cast in November is incredibly important, whether it be police violence, whether it be, you know, the COVID pandemic, whether it be

essential workers in our communities, whether it be what's happening in our schools, everything is on the ballot in November. And I do not say that lightly. I hate politics, just like Michelle Obama. I think I probably hate them more than she does. But I have never been more clear that every single person who takes a risk to vote in this upcoming election is really a defender of our democracy and a defender of our collective futures together. Alicia Garza, I could keep asking you questions, but that was such a motivating final answer. I think we have to leave it there. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. And I hope I can come back again soon. When we come back, I'll be joined by Aaron Ryan and Guy Branum to talk about the

Republican convention and play OK Stop. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It. There's more on the way. And we're back. Very exciting. Two returning champions to help us cover. I'll just tell you that we just watched an absolutely abhorrent one hour Donald Trump speech. And we're frankly reeling, but we're going to do our best. She's a writer for It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, contributor to The Daily Beast, and host of Crooked's Pod Hysteria. Welcome back, Erin Ryan. It's so good to see you, and it's so good to be here. And he's a comedian, writer, and host of the show Talk Show, the game show, author of My Life as a Goddess.

Welcome back, Guy Branum. Good to be here. Thank you for having me, John. So here we are. It's Thursday night. Donald Trump has just concluded night four of the Republican National Convention, colon, full fash. What are your thoughts, Erin?

What was your feeling at the end of this rodeo? Well, John, I feel like I had eaten my way to the middle of a turducken of nightmares. Every single day, a different type of poultry nesting within a different poultry. And at the middle was just a, maybe a, like a bag of dog poop that had been left on a hiking trail for days. Have you ever considered working in the art of haiku? I actually, I have a proposal out to my agent. We'll see how that goes. Who reps Basho?

Right? Too smart for me, guy. So yeah, it was a slog. And everybody who didn't have to watch it because it's somehow related to their professional life is a lucky person, very lucky American. I will say that it ended on a high note for me. And by high note, I mean Donald Trump was soggy bread

at the bottom of a sandwich on Thursday night. He gave one of the worst speeches I've ever seen. And it was great for me. Guy, how are you feeling? What's on your mind after this Republican convention? My mind really went to two great moments in cinema. You know how Triumph of the Will is like a parade of monsters like shot from below and sort of like just big letters of everybody's name. It was really exciting to see our Zoom version of that with really uniform haircuts. And then also tonight's speech really reminded me of the speech in the mentoring in candidates beating swords against shields, saying there is no alternative.

There was a lot that was funny. There was a lot that was chilling. But in tonight's speech, when Donald Trump talked about decent people being scared, I realized his definition of decent is so different from my own. Like, his definition of decent is that Rittenhouse kid. Normal people who are white and just want to be able to live in a country where Black people are fearful and oppressed, and they can carry their guns wherever they want to. And it's chilling that there are enough people with whom that resonates, who understand it the same way, where cancel culture really is something to fear, because it stopped us from leading our normal lives. Something can be both quite silly and also incredibly dangerous at the same time. In fact, Something can be both quite silly and also incredibly dangerous at the same time. In fact, it's in part the silliness that makes it dangerous, that makes it something people aren't quite cognizant of in terms of how much risk it poses, how much it can change

things, because it is also vulgar and idiotic and the production values are terrible and the taste is wrong. And it's also cheap looking and the people involved in putting this on are not the most talented people the Republican Party produces. No, they're the only people willing to speak at this event. And I think the combination of that is incredibly depleting. It's incredibly enervating to watch four days of a bunch of people poorly denying the obvious, right, at a time when the country's in crisis, elevating Donald Trump as a man who loves us because he's in our family and we're all part of one big American family with Donald Trump who's kind

and Donald Trump who's good and who wakes up at dawn and goes to bed at midnight working for us. And I'm trying to remember that the reason it feels so painful to listen to is because the lies serve a purpose. The lies are not meant to convince us. The lies are meant to show us that they don't care what we think and that this isn't a conversation. It's about subjugation. The thing that I took away from watching the RNC

and that I take away from watching any kind of event where they're trying to present an airbrushed idea of who they are to the world is, okay, so there were a couple nights where they were trying to present an airbrushed idea of who they are to the world is, okay, so there were a couple nights where they were clearly like, you know, featuring a bunch of black Republicans or black people who like Donald Trump. And then there were nights where they had a bunch of women that are like, I'm a woman and Donald Trump acknowledged that I had surgery, ergo Donald Trump is good for women. Like, I feel like the wrong thing to take away from them is Donald Trump is going after the black vote. Donald Trump is going after the black vote.

Donald Trump is going after the women vote. What Donald Trump is going after is the vote of people who want to be told that they're not racist and sexist for voting for Donald Trump. Like, I don't think that Donald Trump honestly thinks he's going to win that many suburban women back. But I think that he just wants to win enough of them who just need assurance that voting for him doesn't mean that they're sexist because look at all these women who like him. Because look at all these black people

telling you that you are not racist because they don't believe that Donald Trump is racist, ergo you are not if you vote for Donald Trump. The media gets it wrong by saying like, he's going after black voters, he's going after female voters. He's going after female voters. He is really not. He's not going to win young women of color. He wants people who are looking for a reason to find it. I'm not sure if he gave people a reason because that's not my

mindset. But I guess we'll see, you know, as as more polling comes out after. He's moderating a definition of decency. Like what you're saying is he's trying to give people the cloak that there is decency in a behavior that says shooting protesters is a reasonable action. Also, I would like to say that I'm primarily here as a wife and mother. I am not here for myself. I like to like Ronna Romney McDermott. I'm sorry, Romney Romney McRomney saying that she was a housewife serving as the RNC.

Look, if you have a job that pays you outside of the home you are not a housewife. I'm sorry. That drives me nuts. Sorry.

Go ahead. Love it. You know what? Fuck it. Let's just go to OK Stop. Now it's time for OK Stop. We're going to watch clips from the convention.

Should we have been funnier, John? John, I'm sorry. There's no. Aaron, Gloria, Ryan, me, from the convention. Should we have been funnier, John? John, I'm sorry. There's no. Aaron, Gloria, Ryan, me, both comedy writers. Should there have been more dick jokes in there? Were you looking for more wordplay? I'm looking for whatever you want to offer in this emotional moment. If you can respond to it with humor, I welcome it.

If you can respond to it with grace and seriousness, I welcome it. We're just trying to get through this week and see the other side of it. And in that spirit, OK, stop. We're going to watch a clip of Ivanka Trump. You know her. She's Donald Trump's daughter. She's terrible. And then there's also Donald Trump. Her father will hear after that. Let's roll the clip. My father has strong convictions. He knows what he believes and he says what he thinks. Whether you agree with him or not, you always know where he stands. Okay, stop. Okay, stop. You know, there's something just extremely Trumpy and hilarious

about how naked his preference for Ivanka has become over the course of these last three. Like he literally lined his kids up for speaking engagements in reverse order of how much he likes them. And he had the one that he's horniest for like right before him. You know, he didn't even have the first lady introduced. And he had his his weird daughter with a face that doesn't move. I am fascinated by the fact that America falling from republic to empire will require one of our two political parties handing itself over to an autocrat. Like, it is ridiculous to me that the Republican Party of the United States, representing 50 goddamn states, has said this family gets to run it. That we haven't reached a point where all of the Republican politicians didn't stand up and say like,

fuck you, no. Like, sure, you might be president, but you cannot hand all of the power to your children. You don't get to say 12 more years. God help me. I hope they get another 76. It's not just that they decided to really embrace a kind of autocratic family. It's that they chose this family. Like they had Bush's. They had them. There are so many of them. They dress nicely. They take pictures on the holidays. You know, they have a compound. You know, they were ready for this. You want to know who don't overthrow our own government? People who call their grandpa Poppy or Gampy. Yeah, they don't. They don't.

You know, they they acted Texas, but they were very Connecticut. It really did protect us. The results speak for themselves. OK, stop. I don't believe this convention would have looked that obviously would look different and that it was in person. But the message would have been quite similar if there hadn't been a massive crisis and pandemic. So many people had to walk to the podium and say, the results speak for themselves. The best is yet to come.

I heard foreign leaders beg him not to move the American embassy to Jerusalem, yet he delivered on a promise also made and unfulfilled by past presidents because my father knew that it was the right thing to do. Okay, stop. I think a nation of people who can no longer go to Applebee's are really soothed by the fact that the Israeli embassy is in Jerusalem now. I think the fact that we are all scared to hug anyone, we feel better knowing that there are a couple of pieces

of sheet metal down at the southern border. The results speak for themselves. Look at this fucking super spreader event. Look at this. Oh my God. Look at these anti-citizens. I cannot stand them. I mean, like, look at these people. Just absolutely no regard. How many Herman Cain's must die? They're awful. I hope Herman Cain haunts the fuck out of all of these people. It's an epidemiological version of Donald Trump cares about you. Because it's basically saying, like, all of these people know that the medical advice says don't gather like this. All of these people know that Dr. Fauci says we got to wear a mask.

And they had to change the CDC guidance while he was like, you know, getting a molar removed or something because he was unconscious. Like these people all know that what they're doing runs counter to the advice. And yet when Donald Trump says we need to get the economy open, they applaud like crazy as if they are not in this moment participating in an event contributing to the pandemic that prevents us from reopening the economy. There's this deep sense of but not me. The same sentiment that allows them to look at a black man being shot for no reason and not feel anything about it because they know it wouldn't happen to them gives them the sense that they can do these things and they will not be affected by this virus,

which is ridiculous. It's a fucking virus. And there are disparities in medical care in this country. I'm truly surprised that old white people haven't been more scared by this. They have, Guy. They have. That's the thing. His numbers among seniors outside of the group of people willing to gather at this monstrous event, it is affecting his numbers. There is still a real world for now. I've been doing some small scale polling work with older Jewish widows at my mother's home and I have to say they're fucking terrified and they're pissed off. Defying all expectations just weeks ago, he rewrote history again by making a peace agreement. Okay, stop. Okay, stop. Speaking of rewriting history, the last four days were basically us just pretending

that Donald Trump has never been the person that he's always been. The last four days have been about rewriting history. Everything that they accuse others of doing, they are confessing to doing. The Republican Party, Ivanka Trump, the Trump family, everybody speaking at the RNC, is trying to rewrite history into something where Donald Trump is a nice guy and a successful president. And, you know, it might work for the like little bubble of reality they're living in for four days, but I just can't imagine it sticking. Tonight with a heart full of gratitude and boundless optimism. I profoundly accept this nomination for president. Okay, stop. I profoundly accept this nomination for president. Okay, stop.

Okay, stop. Okay, stop. Profoundly. I profoundly accept it. This was like the first moment in the speech where I was like, is his brain working tonight? We make fun of the speech writing. We should make fun of this. It's terrible writing.

This is a communication from Stephen Miller, kind of a notorious bigot and bad person, channeling this man, one of the worst human beings we've ever elevated in public life, no empathy, attempting to demonstrate language that is grand, that works. And the only way grand language works

is because it's infused with grandeur. It's infused with emotion. Like that's what big speeches are. They're about capturing the bigness of the emotions, the bigness of the experience. the bigness of the experience. Look, I'm a speechwriter. I can say this stuff. And I think one of the reasons this always doesn't work for him, that the writing is

never right, the delivery is never right, is because these are not emotions he experiences. He doesn't profoundly accept the nomination. He doesn't profoundly accept anything. He has no profound experiences. He's never experienced profundity. There's no part of his life that has been profound. I don't think that he had a moment of profound reflection at the birth of John Jr. You know, I don't think that that's an experience that he has and so he has to fake it. And I think what we're talking about when we talk about why

his speeches don't seem to work is we're talking about the fact that he's faking it. President Abraham Lincoln looked out these very windows upon a half completed Washington monument and asked God in his providence to save our nation. Okay, stop. I would just like to assert that Donald Trump doesn't know what or where providence is. Profoundly accepting things, Providence. These are the words that Stephen Miller thinks you use when you're trying to seem grand because he doesn't actually have the emotions required or the empathy required to capture the bigness

or grandeur that he's attempting to capture. Joe Biden's agenda is made in China. My agenda is made in the USA. Okay, stop. I have very frequently on this podcast asserted that politics is a compromise. When people are like, I feel like Joe Biden is a compromise. Yes, he's a compromise. Selecting a president is like ordering a pizza with an entire nation. and you're always just going to end up with cheese pizza even though some people are vegans like it's a fucking compromise but i would like to say that joe biden may be the perfect bullet to take this dude down because

they spent metaphorically metaphorically metaphor yes yes metaphorically because they spent four days presenting a technocratic view of what the Democrats want to do. That it is about experts telling you who should be in charge. And if you tried to apply that to the Clintons or Barack Obama, that would maybe feel accurate. Who is this stranger who's telling me what to do because they're more of an expert than I am? However rough Joe Biden is, he's fucking America. And yes, he says Scranton too much. But like, I feel like the capacity to say, oh, they're culture warring for you,

is really hard to take when it's coming from a dude who's that down to earth, and that reasonable, and yes, fallible, but who feels like somebody you know. Joe Biden received the nomination in a fucking public school library with his fucking public school teacher wife. And it didn't feel like a moment. It feels like a place that he ends up sometimes of the year. And I have such hope that that will be able to resonate with America. So there's all of this hullabaloo around people that might be convinced to move from Trump to Biden. I think that those people are honestly just pretending,

they're just looking for a reason to vote for Trump. And eventually they'll find it between now and the election. But I think the good news to Guy's point, and the thing we always have to keep in mind is Donald Trump can say whatever he wants. It doesn't change reality. And the country is in crisis. One hundred and seventy five thousand people are dead. And there's nothing that Donald Trump can say to make that Joe Biden's fault. And so much of the case that Donald Trump made this week was if you're not careful, the America today will continue. That's really what he is saying. He's saying if you're not careful, everything that you're seeing, that's the future. And what he's trying to do in so many ways is declare bankruptcy on his presidency. He's trying to say, he's trying to declare bankruptcy on the first term. He's saying

175,000 Americans are dead. Roll that to zero. We had to spend $2 trillion and it wasn't enough to get out of the economic hole. And we've lost 20 million jobs or whatever number of tens of millions of jobs. Get that back to zero. The pain, the chaos, the violence. Sure, I said four years ago at the Republican convention, I will bring order to the streets. And tonight I said, once again, I'll bring order to the streets because I'm taking us back to zero. I am not an incumbent.

Joe Biden's the incumbent. I'm the challenger. And I hope it won't work, but it's up to us to make sure it doesn't work. And I do think we have the power to do that because I think the good news is these four days ultimately won't matter nearly as much as what happens over the next 66 days. And in those 66 days, we can win. That's it. We just have to win. Aaron Ryan, Guy Branum, what a delight it was to see you. Thank you for going through this emotional journey of having to respond to this godforsaken event. When we come back, we'll have my interview with Mayor Alex Morse.

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. He is the mayor of Holyoke, Massachusetts, and a candidate for Congress running in a primary against incumbent and House Ways and Means Chair Richard Neal. Please welcome Alex Morse. Thanks for having me, John. Thanks for being here. So I want to start, you know, we've had a number of primary candidates on and I just want to start by asking, why would Massachusetts be better off with you in Congress than Richard Neal? Yeah, I mean, it's time that we have a Congress and a government that looks like and has the

lived experience of the people we want to represent. And I come from a working class family, first in my family to go to college, came back to my hometown and ran for mayor and got elected when I was 22, became the youngest and first openly gay mayor of my city. And we've had a lot of progress, but without a strong federal partner and without a federal government that really understands working class people and working class communities and places like Western Massachusetts that are oftentimes forgotten about, we're not going to be able to change people's lives. And in fact, we are represented by an incredibly powerful Democrat, the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee, who's been in Washington for 32 years, but he's not using his power to

hold this president accountable. In fact, he's abusing his power on behalf of the corporations and special interests that have invested millions of dollars in him over his three decades in Washington. And so we wouldn't be losing power, our district, we'd be gaining power because it would be about redefining what power actually means, that change happens from the bottom up. And this is a very progressive district and honestly just doesn't lend itself to having one of the most corporate conservative Democrats representing us in the first district. So I want to talk about each of those. I want to talk about oversight. And then I want to talk about policy. As the chair of House Ways and Means, Richie Neal was in a unique position to

request Trump's tax returns. And he decided not to do that for basically a quarter of the term, half a year after Democrats won in 2018. Progressives have been incredibly critical of him for doing that. And as a result, it seems now we don't know if we would have been able to get those tax returns before the election. But it certainly seems the delay means we will not because they waited so long to issue that subpoena. What is the lesson there about that decision? Because it seems to me it was rooted in a kind of institutionalism or a belief in whether Republicans would be more amenable to a slower process or what have you. What's your response to that decision? Yeah, no, this is a great question.

It goes right at this power question. I mean, what's the point of having institutional power if you're not going to use it? And Democrats, progressives in every state, I mean, all across the country were incredibly frustrated. We worked hard to take back the House in 2018 with the hope that there would actually be some substantive oversight of this president and the administration. And along with Eliot Engel, I mean, Richard Neal has gotten an F from the Agar Institute for not having a single oversight hearing on this administration. And I mean, there was one guy in Washington that had the power to get his tax returns. There was one guy in Washington that had the power to get the New York state returns after lawmakers there worked for years to make

even the state returns available. And he refused to even request those and allowed Trump time to file a lawsuit to prevent their release. And so we're now sure because of Congressman Neal not to see any financial records from this president. Richie Neal made a conscious decision early on after becoming chair that he would rather negotiate and compromise and work with Trump and Mnuchin rather than hold them accountable. And it took months. It took thousands of people here in the district, millions of Americans around the country to lobby this guy to even do the basic functions of oversight in the first place. So let's talk about how this sort of approach has manifested in policy. There's been a fight in Congress over surprise medical billing. There was a deal between Democrats and Republicans

that would have put an end to the practice where even if you have insurance, you go to the hospital, an anesthesiologist sneaks into the operating room while you're unconscious, you get a $100,000 bill in the mail. And there was a compromise between Democrats and Republicans and between sort of providers and insurance companies to at least do away with much of the practice. Neil and his colleague, Kevin Brady, they come out with an alternate proposal that seems to have sunk the bipartisan proposal that might have had a chance. What's your take on that? This is like an egregious example of Neil using his power to benefit his corporate donors. I mean, as you described accurately,

like this bill was actually going to make it through Congress. I mean, even this president was prepared to sign it to limit surprise medical bills. And never before had Blackstone, a private equity group, donated to this congressman. And they suddenly became his biggest donor, donating $54,000 this cycle alone. And Neil went on to single-handedly kill this bill. 10,000 Americans a day get a surprise medical bill from a provider, from an ambulance company, from a hospital. And Neil put corporate donors before patients and people here in the district and the people of our country. And it's no surprise. I mean, when people here in the district say, well, won't we be losing something? Like he's the chair

of the Ways and Means Committee. And it's like, well, let's look at how he's using his power. I mean, one of the first bills he got through his committee was a bill barring low income Americans from using the free IRS tax filing service after taking money from TurboTax and H&R Block. I mean, the same guy that went on in October to kill an amendment in Ways and Means that would have allowed the government to negotiate lower drug prescription prices. And so all of these, H&R Block, prescription drugs,

surprise medical bills, opening up the Ways and Means Committee room to celebrate the centennial birthday party of AIG. And this guy has made it very clear who he uses his power for. And it's certainly not for the people here in the first congressional district. I mean, that's a big birthday. That's a big one. You know, I know. I mean, it's gross. I mean, everyday people in the district can't even get

access to this congressman. He hasn't had a town hall in over three years. But then you're opening up your committee room to the executives and people that are largely responsible for this country's financial collapse. I mean, this guy takes more corporate money than literally any member of the House, Democrat and even Republican. So on the surprise billing question, it's interesting to me because, you know, one thing that you've said is that you would have opposed the CARES Act, which was the big bipartisan relief bill. I believe AOC was the only Democrat who would have opposed it. And so you would have joined with her and being against it. And it was, and the argument is, you know, didn't go far enough. And of course it didn't. We would have opposed it. And so you would have joined with her and being against it. And it was, and the argument is,

it didn't go far enough. And of course it didn't. We would have liked something that went further than this bill. And that was less about bailing out corporations and more about helping people in need. But at the same time, it was an emergency. And it was a moment where people were in desperate need for that $600, desperate need for relief

from the government. The Paycheck Protection Program may have gone to some wealthy people that shouldn't have used it, but it also did help small business along the way. How do you sort of strike that balance between the broader vision fighting for something better and understanding that in that moment, we needed something to happen to help people who were in crisis? Yeah, and I think this is why we need more members of Congress that see the long game, that actually have the intellect to predict that this isn't meeting the moment or the urgency of the times. And Democrats are guilty. I mean, time and time again, cycle after cycle of negotiating down and compromising.

And imagine having a party that was consistent and progressive and understands that you don't get what you don't fight for. And when I, as mayor, am in the trenches with everyday people that are literally struggling to put food on the table, don't have internet at home, don't have computers at home, and young parents, mothers in particular, having to choose between keeping their job or homeschooling or caring for their children in a one-time payment of $1,200 to most Americans versus a $500 billion slush fund for corporations, no bill would have gotten to this president's desk without the Democratic majority in the House passing a bill. And so why not make it a good bill? The Paycheck Protection Program, a good program overall. And the last thing I want to

do is pretend that there wasn't good components in there. There was obviously too many subsidies and too much money for corporations that didn't need the funds in the first place. But we really needed a people's bailout. And Congressman Neal, in his opposition to Pramila Jayapal's Paycheck Guarantee Act, his opposition to a $2,000 a month recurring payment, you know, supported by Senator Harris, Senator Markey, and Senator Sanders, and even having the gall to talk about the deficit, to talk about austerity and the deficit in these times, I mean, not only sounding like a Republican, but just being incredibly out of touch when people here in the district are struggling more than anything. And, you know, if the CARES Act was so profound and successful, why is it

we're rushing back to Washington to figure out again how to stimulate our economy and how to actually support the working people of this country? It's not about supporting the CARES Act or not supporting the CARES Act. It's that you think that there needs to be more members of Congress who would have voiced earlier opposition to some of the pieces of that, that if we had a more progressive block in Congress, the ultimate CARES Act might have been shifted to the left, whether or not you would have supported the one as it existed. Yeah, I think it's about leverage. It's about having a backbone. It's about negotiating up and sticking to core values. And, you know, I've been a mayor for nine years. And so I recognize, you know, what it's like to

have to work with people I don't always see eye to eye on, people that don't share my values. And, you know, I've been a mayor for nine years. And so I recognize, you know, what it's like to have to work with people I don't always see eye to eye on, people that don't share my values. But having done that over the last nine years by never ceding the argument to the right or to those that disagree with me, like, what's the end goal and who are we fighting for? But when you are like the poster child for the influence of money in politics, I mean, how could people here inherently trust you in enclosed doors to stand up for everyday people when you're being funded by the biggest corporations that are then in turn benefiting from this very act. And so there's always this hyper focus on institutions and even big business. And then we forget about like actual employees. And so even in many ways, like the money provided to hospitals didn't actually trickle down to workers. There's no

question why Richard Neal is getting backed by hospital associations and hospital executives. And we're in fact endorsed by the state's largest nurses union, who even in the middle of this pandemic, don't have access to PPE or livable wages. And so there's a fundamental difference as to who we're going to fight for in Washington. Yeah, I mean, it does seem like that the only thing that could have happened that would have benefited both the private equity that wanted more money for providers and the insurance companies that didn't want to have to reimburse. The only way to have a compromise that they both liked was to kill the compromise. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, again, he made a deliberate decision to issue a white paper, a vaguely worded white paper about alternative options, right as this was going

to go over the finish line. I mean, again, this was just about to be passed, signed by the president. And then when you look at Blackstone, I mean, the private equity group that was largely lobbying against this very compromise, this very bill, again, a congressman that is using his power to benefit corporations rather than the people. And every day that passes, every single day that passes, 10,000 more Americans are getting a surprise bill. We've had events with constituents here in the district that have been slammed with a surprise medical bill. But I mean, even zooming out a little bit further than that, I mean, you can't take on big pharma, you can't take on private equity, you can't take on Wall Street when you're taking their money at the same time. If you even after 40 million Americans have lost their job, and now millions of Americans have lost their employee based health insurance.

And if you still think that employment should be tied to health insurance and don't understand why health care should be a fundamental human right, even after this pandemic, you're just not equipped or you don't have the right values to represent the American people in 2020. So I want to move on to this story, obviously, that has rocked the campaign. Earlier this month, you were accused of inappropriate contact or advances towards students by college gems at UMass Amherst. And then The Intercept runs this series of investigation, these reports that basically expose that there was a lot of manipulation going on in a real effort to kind of smear

you and to suggest even baiting you into questionable situations with students. There's even indication that the state party may have been involved in some way. How has the story affected your campaign? And what have you had to do to get it back on track? It's been an eventful couple of weeks. And I'm trying to figure out even where to start by describing like the events of the last couple of weeks and that initial weekend. And, and I've said this before, like this was starting to get like shopped around to national media outlets, like even a couple of months ago, something about college Democrats and me and the team were sort of unclear as to what was happening. But we realized that, you know, there was clearly some political motivation here. But what was difficult, obviously, with like the national conversation

we're having about these issues in particular, that when I get an email from the college Democrats in Massachusetts telling me that I have made students feel uncomfortable, I wanted to just like be human as any human should and respond and say, well, I don but if if in fact I've made someone feel uncomfortable then I deeply regret that and want to have a conversation about it and that was my initial response and it was essentially an anonymous blog post posted on the student newspaper on Friday night that was then lifted and amplified by almost every media outlet here locally in the state and nationally and to be really honest it was a really dark um and difficult weekend for me personally yeah for my family for my team my friends but like so many

people reached out to me particularly members of the queer community like gay men in particular who were all too familiar with the language being used in response to these accusations people coming to conclusions people using the word like predator and I mean, so on and so forth. And I just like knowing who I am and like being very clear about my actions in the past. And even like we're so too familiar with like feeling this sense of shame. And I felt that that weekend, even though I felt like I had no reason to feel that shame. And so many other people felt it, too. And I realized by the end of the weekend that it really just I mean, it wasn't just an attack on me. It was an attack on our entire community and our all-too-familiar experience with the over-policing

of our sex lives and our personal lives. In the days following, to then find out that the students that purported to be uncomfortable were, in fact, number one, not uncomfortable, but were actively trying to put me in a difficult situation that then damaged my campaign to curry favor with Congressman Neal to secure a job or an internship. And then another day or two later to find out that it was actually an attorney for the Massachusetts Democratic Party that is a donor to Congressman Neal that in fact, wrote the email to me in the first place to be as salacious as possible and be as vague as possible at the same time. And so it was

quite a whirlwind of a week. And in that weekend, I really wasn't sure what I was going to do, because it was incredibly intense. And I had to ask myself, like, is it worth it? Is this what it's going to be like the next three weeks? Is this what it's going to be like if I get elected on September 1? But I also realized that just as a young person, as a single person, as a queer person, like we should feel like we can run for office without having constant fear of, of again, our personal lives and our sex lives being broadcast for just being people and adults. And I've been clear, like, yes, I'm gay. Yes, I've been on on gay dating apps. And I shouldn't have to apologize for like, having consensual adult relationships, you know? Yeah, I mean, it does seem like there is a pressure to adhere to sort

of heteronormative standards in the kind of relationship you put forward. I think like, and this is not a criticism of Mayor Pete and Chaston. I think though they projected an incredibly safe version for a lot of straight people of what it means to be gay. That's not a criticism of their relationship. That's not suggesting anything inauthentic about it. But at the same time, it also seemed in this case that you were not just being held to a heteronormative standard, you were expected to exceed a heteronormative standard, that the kind of conduct that sort of straight people can participate in freely somehow is seen as, you know, lascivious or wrong if it happens, if it's a gay man sort of, you know, in his 20s dating

someone who might be a student at the time. Yeah. And it's a gay man sort of, you know, in his 20s, dating someone who might be a student at the time. Yeah. And it's like, I announced my candidacy for mayor, I was 21 years old, right? I started teaching a class occasionally at UMass when I was 25 years old, like I have been in public life for almost 10 years now. And I've always had to navigate, like the personal with the political and yeah, I'm mayor in this constant struggle to still be human and and still live a normal life and like just navigating dating and yeah and i realize i'm the mayor whether i'm at city hall whether i'm like at the grocery store whether i'm at a coffee shop on a date that's the truth that's who i am and so i'm cognizant of that but i'm also like the

expectation shouldn't be that you're in some monogamous heteronormative relationship before you actually enter public life as an openly queer person. Like that is an unfair expectation. And like the reality is, I mean, we're a very sex negative society in general. We pretend that people don't have sex. And I just think it's an important conversation for folks to have, because too often people are pushed out and are unable to be like unapologetically themselves in so many ways. So, I mean, I didn't expect to be talking so much about this and my personal life and whatnot, like the final stretch of the campaign. But like, I think that people here in the district and beyond, like they see this for what it is three weeks before the most competitive primary that this guy has ever seen in 30

years and put the pieces together. And so if I can be helpful to other folks that are thinking about running for office or are in office, like, it's okay. I mean, to be single, to be young, to be queer, if you're queer, and also have a personal life. Yeah, I want to ask one last question about it. I was conflicted about this too, because first of all, when, you know, the reports first came out, when I saw, of course, the accusation, then I saw the intercept reports, and some people sort of, when I shared what the intercept had found, some people responded to me, I think, you know, in a sincere way.

But but wait, there was relationships with students there. Isn't that obviously wrong? Isn't there something inappropriate there? What's your response to that? So I like I said, I started teaching a class at UMass when I was 25 years old. I'm not some powerful professor at the University of Massachusetts. I occasionally teach a once a week class, and I'm in Western Massachusetts. And if I want to have consensual adult relationships with young people, like in the area, they happen to be college students that aren't in my direct class, and doesn't violate the policy of the University of Massachusetts, then that is my choice. Like we have to these puritanical sort of ideologies around like people's personal life and sex life, I think is problematic.

And just, again, like this over-policing of other people's personal lives. And so I would push back on that. And if other folks want to make different decisions, then that is on them. But for me, again, I don't feel like I ever have to be in a position to apologize for having those relationships. So back to this race against Neil, if you win in this primary and you go on to win in November, what's the most important part to you of taking on this role? What are you most excited about tackling if you were to enter office in January of 2021? Yeah, I mean, what gets me most excited and what's been really cool is just these last couple of weeks, you know, people are voting early right now.

People are voting by mail. And so every day feels like Election Day. And this is a pretty big district. It's 87 cities and towns from rural parts. I mean, farmers, hill towns to like very urban communities where I am in Holyoke and Springfield, the biggest city in the district. And people are just struggling right now. They feel left behind, forgotten about. You would never know we have one of the most powerful members of Congress representing us. The opioid epidemic, I mean, overdoses are going down around the state, but up here in Western Mass, hospitals are closing in the middle of the pandemic. Dozens of cities and towns still don't have access to broadband internet. And so like, first and foremost, it's making sure that the people of this district feel like they have a

member of Congress that is just fighting for everyday people, that does town halls, someone they can see, they can talk to, they can hold accountable. But then going to Washington, like adding to the progressive caucus and progressive voices and just fighting for everyday people when it comes to health care, when it comes to climate change, getting money out of politics, you know, reproductive and racial justice, immigrant rights. money out of politics, you know, reproductive and racial justice, immigrant rights. I mean, we've made a lot of progress on these issues on a local level, but these are issues that don't stop at the borders of any one municipality. And then also when you look at our government, I mean, it's largely old white straight men, and we need to make sure that we have a body, again, that reflects the diversity of our country. I mean, we deserve a better government that is in touch with working people. I mean, when I think about my parents and their story, my siblings, they would have never imagined that their son would grow up to be the mayor of their hometown, no less a potential member of Congress.

And it's so critically important that we have these views. And when I think about my identity as a gay man, too, like intersectional queer identities that recognize that even our community has a long way to go towards liberation, that our struggle didn't end with marriage equality. We still have a lot of challenges within our own community. So I'm excited to finish this campaign in the in the coming days and hopefully go to Washington after the primary. What's the gayest thing you're watching on streaming right now? Well, my my quarantine show was Schitt's Creek, which is like, um,

which is by far like, it took me to another world in the middle of like a very stressful campaign and stressful time. And I paid on Amazon prime to watch season six and, and just incredibly sad that it's over. Um, but I've told everybody in my life to watch it. Here's my,

uh, here's my Schitt's Creek question, which is okay. They lose everything. They're super rich and they lose everything and they end up in this small town. But very quickly, they become owners and business leaders inside of the community. They kind of very quickly take back on the mantle of the kind of elite in their town. I'm just saying, there's a left critique of Schitt's Creek waiting to happen.

And I don't think you should be the one to do it, but it's out there. It's available. Oh, my God. Well, I love the closing episode of like the behind the scenes i want to go to one of those like tours where you get to meet the meet the cast and if there wasn't copa 19 i would totally sign up for one of those but it's just an amazing show and i love how the characters develop season by season and it's incredibly hopeful like uplifting show and also the way it pictures like a gay relationship about it yeah like the language being like negative or something bad has to happen at some point and i loved well i'm not going to give any spoilers because not everybody probably has no spoilers no spoilers um any golden

girls for you have you like no that's like the one that's like the one gay thing i haven't i mean i i know who betty white is and and but other than that i mean a random tv land like late at night here and there but i i've never like followed the show. I actually prefer like King of Queens or old reruns of other shows. Wow. Wow. OK. King of Queens.

That's a deeply straight response. All right. Alex Morris, thank you so much for taking the time. It's so good to talk to you. All right. Likewise. Thanks so much, Sean. Don't go anywhere.

This is Love It or Leave It. And there's more on the way. And we're back. Because we all need it this week, here it is, this week importantly than that, I just found out that I do not have to live in the United States, nor do I have to be a U.S. citizen to volunteer for a phone bank, provided that I'm fully volunteering. So I finally am signing up to adopt a state. Mine will be Michigan, and I'll be pressuring all my Canadian friends,

who are probably as bored as I am to hopefully do more of the same. Hi, Lovett. This is Carly from Massachusetts. My high note this week is that I just checked the status of my absentee ballot online for our primary next week, and my ballot was accepted today. It was awesome to hear both Joe Kennedy and Ed Markey on your program a few weeks ago, and it really solidified my choice. So thank you. Hey there, Lovett. This is Steven from Arizona.

My high note is that I talked a friend into volunteering for Mark Kelly in exchange for doing a dance cover to a song of their choice. They volunteered. So now I have to do a little video of me dancing to Taylor Swift's Me. So that should be a blast. Thanks. Hi, Jen. This is Julie in New York City.

I'm a school tour guide at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. And obviously we've been shut down since March. And I've really missed the kids, especially. But over the summer, we've been shut down since March. And I've really missed the kids, especially. But over the summer, we've been working on giving virtual tours. And my high note is that on Friday, I gave a tour to a group of third graders in rural Mississippi. So it's kind of been a silver lining that even though kids can't come to the museum right now, we can still show them works of art. And we can do this now with kids from all over the world. Thanks so much for all you do. Bye.

If you want to leave a message about something that gave you hope, you can call us at 424-341-4193. There are 66 days until the election, so sign up for Vote Save America right now to defeat Donald Trump, keep the House and win back the Senate. Thanks for watching. staff working to keep this show going out and Crooked going strong. Have a great weekend. Love It or Leave It is a Crooked Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett, Elisa Gutierrez, Lee Eisenberg, and our head writer and the president of the East Side or Biden writers, Travis Helwig. Jocelyn Kaufman, Alicia Carroll, and Peter Miller are the writers. Our assistant producer is Sydney Rapp. Bill Lance is our editor, and Kyle Seglin is our sound Thank you.