Lovett or Leave It - Don’t Wake Fascist Grandpa

Episode Date: June 23, 2018

Recorded live at the historic Ryman Auditorium in Nashville, Jon is joined by Symone Sanders, Liliana Segura, and Benjamin Sawyer to break down the week's news. Trump shifts, but families are still separated. Fox & Friends gets a little too honest about who deserves compassion. Kellyanne Conway faces an unlikely critic. And sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between a Trump stooge and a villain from X-Men. Anyway, awful week, but a great show at an amazing place.

Hello, Nashville! It is so nice to be at the Ryman Auditorium. How you guys doing? There's a lot of people on Twitter who think that they are crossing the Delaware every single day. And that was bad enough, but now some of them, they got off of that little boat crossing the Delaware every single day. And that was bad enough, but now some of them, they got off of that little boat crossing the Delaware on the ice, and now they're storming Normandy. And the thing is, you're not. At all. I really am starting to think that Twitter is a lot like Inception.

And let me tell you what I mean. How many of you saw the film Inception? Your mind is the scene of the crime. Now, the movie Inception, you're watching people, and they're breaking into vaults, and they're fighting avalanches, and they're fighting in elevators,

and they're blowing shit up, and it's action-packed. But from the outside, it is a movie about six people taking a nap on a plane if you're on twitter oh you're mixing it up you're fighting with villains you're making good points you're fighting back against the bad points you're pointing out bad points you're saying can't believe this person said that. I'm too good of a person to say that. I say better stuff.

Like this person, this, that. It's awesome. We're winning. We're losing. I hate myself. I gotta check it again. And you're doing it every two minutes. And it's like, you're mowing down villains.

And then you're running. And you're using a snowmobile to run a little cord. To get the amorphous bad guys to fly off of their snowmobiles on the inside. But here's what you're actually doing while you're doing that. You're sitting perfectly

still on your phone waiting online at Chipotle. That is why Twitter is inception. Look at that little stand-up. Came out of nowhere. It's easy. that little stand-up. Came out of nowhere. It's easy.

We are at the Ryman Auditorium, the original home of the Grand Ole Opry. Biggest names in country and bluegrass have all performed here. Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, and now a gay Jew from Long Island to talk about the news.

We have a fantastic show. I do want to remind everyone here that Hysteria, new podcast from Crooked Media, everybody should subscribe. I've heard the test episodes are awesome. Erin Ryan, who is a fantastic guest on Love It or Leave It a wonderful, incredibly funny writer

she's awesome, she's going to host it and she's going to be joined by Alyssa Mastromonaco Blair Imani, Grace Parra, Kieran Deal Megan Gailey and Ziwe Fumido so we've got this incredible group of women hosting this show and it's going to be fantastic it launches Thursday June 28th so you can subscribe to it now I'm going to be fantastic. It launches Thursday, June 28th, so you can subscribe

to it now. I'm going to welcome our panel. She's a strategist who rose to prominence during her time as press secretary for the Bernie Sanders campaign. She's a crooked media contributor, dear friend of the pod, icon, the fantastic Simone Sanders. Hi, Simone. Greetings. Happy to be here. Are my friends from the coffee shop here? Where are my coffee shop homegirls?

Hey! I made friends today. I haven't made a friend in a year Oh stop it I know we're all friends It's good She's an award winning journalist And senior reporter

Covening criminal justice At the Intercept She recently won The Innocence Network Award For her work covering Wrongful convictions Please welcome Liliana Segura

Hi award for her work covering wrongful convictions. Please welcome Liliana Segura. Hi. Thank you for being here. Hi. Nice to have you. Nice to be here. I'm sorry, I'm at the Ryman. I've seen so many shows here, and this is special.

Thank you. What if, actually, this is a nightmare, and a guitar is about to be handed to you and then we leave and everyone you went to elementary school is here? I'll work with it. I'll make it work. He's a host of the Road to Now podcast, a history professor at Middle Tennessee State University,

and a comedian. Please welcome Dr. Benjamin Sawyer. Hi, Dr. Ben. How are you, sir? I'm good. How are you? Fabulous. Good. Good, good, good. I live in Nashville, so I'm not always here on the stage. You're always playing the Ryman? Always.

Look at this place. It's cool as hell. Awesome. Alright. Let's get into it what a fucking terrible week the trump administration's decision to separate migrant children from their families has been happening for a few weeks now but it finally broke through the public consciousness in part after pro publica obtained leaked audio from inside these child

detention centers, these basically prisons for children. It was horrific to listen to. Because of that audio, public support for the practice plummeted to around 27%, which is still way too high. The Trump administration tried everything to deflect blame. They called it

fake news. They blamed the Democrats. They said only Congress could fix it. To even quoting Bible verses that were also used to justify slavery. In the end, in part because of incredible journalism and the activism of people on the ground, Republicans using human children as a negotiating tactic so Trump could build a dumb fucking wall was exposed for what it was.

Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen. Is that right? There's so many Js in it. Kirstjen Nielsen. Kirstjen Nielsen. She went out on a limb to defend the policy and then got booed out of a Mexican restaurant before she was able to finish

her virgin blueberry margarita. People may point out that she didn't want the Trump administration to enact this policy to begin with, but I will point out that she made her cruel, racist, inhuman bed, that pretended there was no bed, then said the bed was actually only sort of made, then that Democrats made her make the bed, then that she actually said the bed is good, and Democrats want to give your bed to brown people.

The audacity of not only her, but Stephen Miller to be in a Mexican restaurant this week, what the total fuck? When I saw that, I was like, you gotta be kidding me.

They want our culture, but they just don't want us. So, Trump announced that he was reversing the policy that he said, like, within the previous 24 hours that he actually didn't have the power to reverse, yet he did it, or claimed he wanted to do it, or that he would kind of do it. Trump's executive order doesn't actually do nearly as much as what they claim.

Not only is there no plan to reunite the 2,300 kids with their families, but many people are quietly admitting they wouldn't even begin to know how to start to reconnect their families. They wouldn't even begin to know how to start to reconnect their families. And many immigration scholars think the Trump administration is going to try to indefinitely detain these people, despite the fact that the law says that that is illegal. Simone, I'll start with you. Where do we go from here? You know, there were headlines across the country saying Trump ends family separation policy. I know. I saw one in the airport when I got here last night. What do those headlines mean? When you see a headline like that, what does that tell you?

I think it tells me that the media doesn't fully grasp the entire concept. Some folks in the media, not everybody. But to say that Trump ended the policy is absolutely not true. Now, he said that there would be no more family separations, but the fact of the matter is, the family separations come because of the zero tolerance policy. So if they're still prosecuting folks criminally, then the kids will still be separated from their families at the border. I mean, Donald Trump even said this. Was he in the Oval Office?

And he was like, you know, people still gonna be separated, so I don't really know. He went on one of those rants he goes on when he tells us what he really really thinks and then they usher the cameras out of the room very quickly. You can hear the press person in the back like, alright, alright, wrap it up, wrap it up alright, alright.

They're like, oh god, he's gone off the rails. Grandpa fascist needs his Diet Coke. Literally, they're like, okay, okay, okay, no, no, no more, okay, alright, alright, thank you, okay, okay. So, I mean, look, I think folks are just waiting, the

press kills me sometimes when they're like, you know, this is the day, Donald Trump, he made an about face, he didn't make an about face, he didn't apologize, the administration didn't apologize, they still go out and investigate restaurants, and I just don't know what to do. Yeah, I mean, well, so I think there's two pieces of this that make it false to say that he ends the policy. One, you haven't ended the family separations until you give the 2,000 children back to their parents,

which it's not clear that they clearly haven't made that a priority. But also, it's not clear that all these kids't made that a priority, but also it's not clear that all these kids will ever be reunited with their families. There may be kids that never see their parents again, which is permanent and lasting harm above and beyond the permanent and lasting harm that has already been done to young children put in these tender age shelters. That's the first part. The second part is it has been incredibly difficult.

That's the first part. The second part is it has been incredibly difficult, just as someone trying to read and understand the news so that I could talk about it, we can't trust anything they say. They lie to each other and to us on a regular basis. But on top of that, it is also the fights within the Trump administration playing out all the time. Liliana, you write about criminal justice. A lot of this is going to play out, not in the public eye, but in the courts. So a lot of what it actually means for Trump to say, I will end family separation, is going to play out not in the public eye, but in the courts. So a lot of what it actually means for Trump to say, I will end family separation, is going to play out in cases as whether it's parents or immigrants rights groups sort of take this into the judicial system. How do you imagine that playing out? Or what do you see happening now that gives you a sense of what will end up happening to these kids and to people

detained right now? My experience in criminal justice and in covering these issues for years has taught me not to look to the courts for sort of justice in any kind of broad sense. You know, this is why when Stephanie Teatro talks about the need to organize, you know, it's people on the ground who need to be showing up for communities and criminalized communities. I think that's number one, number one. The other thing I just want to say, you know, as I've been thinking about this, I went down to Montgomery for the opening of the Equal Justice Initiative's new memorial and monument. Really important that everybody go because talk about, you know, sort of our need to sort of contextualize and know our own history. This is what that monument and memorial

and museum are all about. So this is a museum. The museum itself, it's called the Legacy Museum, and it sort of draws the link between from mass enslavement to mass incarceration, right? And Bryan Stevenson, the founder of EJI, basically makes the case that, you know,

all of the issues that we're seeing now with, you know, criminalized communities based on, you know, black and brown communities, I mean, we can trace back to the origin of this country. So when we talk about this is in our country and what's happening to America, I mean, this is our country. It's been our country.

We have to know our own history and think really deeply about where these roots are. All of which is to say, you walk into the Legacy Museum and not, you know, no spoilers, we know how it went. I mean, you walk in, and the first thing you see is a sign that says, you are standing in a space where slaves were warehoused. This is a literal slave warehouse.

And what struck me this last time that I went were these testimonials from families describing how their children were taken away in the process of being, you know, during the the slave trade. And it resonated, I mean, how would it not resonate in the context, you know, this is happening as we're seeing this play out. And the parallels are so painful, but they're so important that we be cognizant of. And so, and then later on in the museum you see, you know, after

emancipation, you see the ads that were taken out in black newspapers, people seeking to be reconnected with their loved ones. So it's so important. I think about this all the time because I cover incarceration in the sort of criminal justice context, not necessarily specifically to immigration, but these are all connection points that are so critical to sort of understanding our own history and not allowing, whether it's the media or Trump, you know, to gaslight us and say, you know, this has never happened. However, we sort of articulate it. This is who we've been, and we need to fight, you know, back in a broader way, a sustained way. So, Ben, speaking to the history, I've seen a lot of parallels drawn. You've seen references to internment camps. You've seen Fox News say, they think You've seen references to internment camps.

You've seen Fox News say, they think Trump's Hitler. He's not Hitler. He's so funny. That is basically a summary of what Tucker Carlson said. Pretty much. Is it totally intellectually honest? No. Is he?

No. So? Whatever. Ben. is he? no so whatever Ben do you think these historical parallels are justified and do you worry that we're seeing the first step of something worse or do you think that that is an overblown

reaction well first of all I should say that I think you have to take responsibility for your action And I think we're taking responsibility for annexing Texas You can thank your boy Polk for that He's buried like two miles that way You can pour your 40 out on his grave tonight if you want to That is some intra-south stuff that I'm going to let go right by.

Welcome to town, love it. It's great to have you. Here's what I see. So many times in American history, immigration has become a hot point. And what it is, you can go back. There were debates in the early republic about whether or not to let French people in. There was a whole party in the 1850s called the Know Nothing

Party on the basis of keeping people out, dealing with that. You see this time and time again. Trump said, Know nothing, I can beat that. Yeah. But I think, like, the thing to remember when you're looking at history is

we've had these times where immigration has become a hot point politically. I mean, 1881, we have the Chinese Exclusion Acts. We have ethnic-based quotas from the 1920s until literally 1965 when we passed a non-ethnic-based quota system that went into effect in 1968. So this has always been a hot point, right? But I think the thing we always have to remember, and I think this is where history is useful,

is that when you're talking about blaming a group of people for anything, it's a way for people in power to pit working people against other working people. It's always been like that. You can look at the riots, right, in New York City in 1863. They're riots when the draft goes into effect for the Union Army. And what's the heart of that? Well, Irish people rise up because they don't want to go fight for the Union in the Civil War because they think they're going to free black folks and black folks are going to come take their jobs. Does that sound

familiar? Yeah. Well, what it was was that, you know, the Irish people were treated like dirt. Black people were treated even worse than that. And so when the Irish people would go on strike and try to get a better living, what would happen? The people that owned the workplaces would march black people in there in front of them. They'd start fighting each other and the people in power would wipe their hands off and move on with their day. So this is not a new thing.

We just have to be aware that this is a strategy of power that has gone on for as long as our country has existed and be smarter than that. I think that is very well said. And one of the tools Trump has obviously employed to divide people in this way is racist appeals, referring to sort of painting all people trying to come into this country, many of whom are seeking asylum, many are coming out of simple desperation, many because we've spent a generation telling people that you can come to this country and if you make it in, you can be undocumented and you'll be a second-class citizen, but you can work and build a life and maybe build a life for your family.

And we have built an extra-legal system that said you can work and build a life and maybe build a life for your family. And we have built an extra legal system that said you can do that. But one of the ways he has demagogued people and made people afraid is by pointing to MS-13 and saying that is why we need this zero tolerance policy. But one thing I wanted to point out is that crossing the border illegally for the first time is a misdemeanor, a federal misdemeanor. It's often punishable by a fine. The civil penalty for a first-time offender is at least $50 and not more than $250.

That's the level we're dealing with when we talk about zero tolerance, when they're talking about justifying removing parents from their children. Here are some other federal misdemeanors. Getting a DUI in a national park. Importing dangerous reptiles. Importing invasive plant species.

Issuing a counterfeit weather forecast. Unlawful alteration of wine labels. And listen to this one. Using Smokey Bear or his slogan, only you can create forest fires for

commercial purposes without government permission. So if someone tells you this is a Republican following the law properly, ask them if they think we should be ripping people away from their families

for messing with the wine label or misusing Smokey the Bear and then ask them why Jared Kushner, who lied on his security forms over and over, which is a felony, is walking the streets.

Zero tolerance is bullshit. They claim all kinds of things, right? That, oh, it's a deterrent, it's not a deterrent. It's leverage, it's not leverage. But over and over again, there has been an underlying claim that Donald Trump is sowing this destruction to create pressure for some kind of an endgame. That was true.

He said that about the Iran deal. They said that about DACA. They said that about healthcare and destabilizing the markets. And now they said that about immigration. But over and over again, A, they don't give a shit. They want the issue.

Destruction is the goal. But B, they never, even on their own terms, they've never actually succeeded in using the leverage of Donald Trump's cruelty to get anything done because once again, they can't pass an immigration bill, forget through the House, they can't pass something through the Republican caucus, let alone something that could pass the House and the Senate. They have absolutely no ability to do that. They couldn't do that on a DACA deal when Democrats said, build your fucking wall, just save these dreamers.

And Trump walked away because Stephen Miller said, no, they're brown. Because he's a white nationalist. Because he's a white nationalist. So the other thing I would take away from this is the point that Ben made I think is really important, which is this is a way to pit working people against working people. But we have to get everybody

to come out to vote together for Democrats in the fall to actually have a chance of passing something akin to a humane immigration policy it is the only way and you know we've said this before but you know Donald Trump wants to remind white people that they're white but we need to remind them that they're working and we need to remind and we need to build a coalition out of black and brown and white people who are working in this country. And I think it goes to empathy. I think it goes to the simple level of empathy of looking someone in the eyes and saying, what would it take for you to just pack up and you and your

kid go and just go off across the frontier and try to go somewhere else? I mean, I think when you think about it, if you have kids or you can even imagine that, the thing is, like, what would it take for you just to leave everything behind and just take a risk? It would take a lot. And I think when you think about that, not from the perspective of being white, but from this unifying thing, which is like being a parent or just loving somebody that you know. Right? I think that changes it. And that's a great equalizer. And can I just add, not letting the laws as we've written them and imposed them define people's humanity, you know, this idea that we have felons,

not families, is really a problem, and I think we need to completely alter that mindset. And, you know, even those who break the law have families. I mean, this is so fundamental. We have to know this. We have to remember that. Yeah, and to your larger point about criminal justice, before you can be a country that's ripping children from parents at the border, you have to first allow yourself to become a country that incarcerates more people per capita than any place on earth,

and you have to allow the kind of racial demagoguery of Donald Trump to achieve success not just in the presidency but in Congress and where Steve King can be a member of Congress in Iowa and be treated not just like a normal person but as a king maker and as someone to take photos with so I think this has exposed something and I think

the point that Ben made is a good one which is just remember that we're on the side of empathy. Sorry, guys. All right. It's terrible. Also, F the law, okay? No, I'm serious.

You know what? Slavery was at one point the law. Segregation was at one point the law. Women not being able to vote at one point was the law. So for everyone that says, oh, they're crossing the border, it's the law, they should know it's the law, was the law. So for everyone that says they're crossing the border, it's the law. They should know it's the law.

F the law. Because unjust law is no just law at all. We'll leave it there. When we come back, OK Stop. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back! Now for a game we call OK Stop. Here's how it works. We'll roll a clip.

The panel can say OK Stop at any point to comment. Trump gives the worst human beings permission to be themselves. That's why whenever Fox News talks about immigration, they can't help but show us what is in their hearts, and this week, they really let it out. Let's take a look. Somebody has to deal with this issue. It doesn't matter who the president is. If you don't like his policy, he's also trying to open to your policy

rather than just criticizing his. He's trying to send a message to the other countries. This is not the way you do it because this is a country that has rules and laws Okay, stop. The ultimately minor point is that he's wearing a dark blue shirt and a aqua tie under a gray suit and he looks like a closeted gay mortician.

So, that's obviously the, that's ultimate, that's the ultimately minor point. point yeah when he says somebody's gonna have to take responsibility for this i thought he was talking about the tie talking about the tie the penultimate minor point is that if that is true right if they were trying to send a message out to the countries you know the bush administration uh when they were trying to send a message they literally sent a message. It was a deplorable policy. But what they did was take out ads

in Central American countries saying, we're changing our policy. It's not safe for you to come. Don't send your kids, right? It's dangerous. There was an effort, a coherent, and I think ultimately inhumane policy, but a coherent set of people trying to achieve an end.

This is mean-spirited chaos, right? This is sending a completely opaque message that changes every single day. Can I just say that he ended on saying, we need to tell people that this is a nation of laws and rules? Yeah? It's like everyone? He's like, it's also got people in it and borders,

and there's some grass and hills, and there's some animals as well. Ventry would be one thing. We can boast of those laws. We just can't let everybody in that wants to be here. And these are not, like it or not, these aren't our kids. Show them compassion. But it's not like he's doing this to the people of Idaho.

Okay, stop. Okay, stop. Oh, so the kids in Idaho are better than the kids from Guatemala? This is, mm. This is, mm. This is, mm. Mm. That's all I can muster. Mm.

I think every kid south of the American border was like, and thank God we're not your kid, dude. I guess sometimes it is worth spelling out why something is obviously terrible. Because there are no brown kids in Idaho? Well, that's certainly, yeah. Obviously, I think that's under all of this. But also, these aren't kids outside of our care.

They're totally and 100% innocent. They're innocent children. Even if you believe... Even if you believe, even if you are a conservative who believes that these are people abusing the asylum system and that ultimately America should have closed borders and restricted immigration, even if you believe that,

it is a complete non-sequitur to then say we should be less compassionate to their purely innocent children. What does that mean? Why? It makes absolutely no sense. It's just cruel. It's just racist.

Because when you've convinced yourself and we've built policies on the idea that human beings themselves are illegal, that children, you can criminalize, and once you reduce somebody to something less than human, you can treat them however you want. And this is something that I've seen in writing about incarceration for years,

including with juveniles. Innocence doesn't matter. They're kids. We shouldn't be putting kids in cages. That's, that's what's so important to remember here. Yeah. And, and, you know, Steve King, the racist Iowan who I referenced moments earlier, he was trying to make this point that, ah, you know, a kid like that, they're barely kids. They're adults because of everything that they've seen. It is a, it is pure old fashioned white nationalism, dehumanization. If you're 13, you're MS-13 basically because you're brown and you're from there. Or, um, or, uh, Texas. These are people from another country. And now people are saying

that they're more important than people in our country who are paying taxes who have needs as well. Okay, stop. Who out there is saying, uh, the wrong kids are in cages. Get the Americans in cages. What are you talking about? It's not like we're like, the problem isn't that the immigrant children are being treated poorly.

The problem is the American children aren't being treated poorly enough. That's my argument. You know, he apologized today on Twitter, too. And was like, oh, I misspoke. I think that was very clear. Misspoke? That's like, a misspoke is like you dropped an important negative word or something.

You know? You know, like, that was a, You can't misspeak a paragraph. It's like, is this you in this picture wearing a Klan robe? I misspoke. Alright, so now we have a second clip also from Fox News. Let's roll it. Border... The detention

centers are far safer than the journey that these children just came on. and I will say this all you know it's People aren't stupid. I spoke to some african-americans who say gosh the the conditions Now I don't know what she about to say but let me just be real clear with y'all we don't say gosh I don't know no black people that are like, gosh. Golly by gee. That ain't just that's not some shit we say.

It's not in our vocabulary. We do not say gosh. So that right there let me know she ain't really talked to no black people today. And also, I have a black friend. Can we just retire that in 2018? I don't want to hear anymore. You know, I talked to I talked to Keisha the other day

and Keisha was telling me they like these cages. I have a... I'm not racist. I have a really good black friend and they love child internment. So that's two strikes for you, two points for me.

Again, we're left with another woman to the right of her that's like what is this world she also is she's gearing up for you can tell she never talks about black people that often because she's just like i talked to my uh uh uh i'm uh uh african-americans the other day uh they said gosh better than some of the projects that I grew up in people are looking at this and saying also all the black people live in projects all of them every single one she ain't know no blacks from the upper

midwest from the upper middle class she ain't used to watch George Andor Wheezy I don't think she's she knows nothing about moving on up middle class? She used to watch George Andor Weezy? I don't think she's... She knows nothing about moving on up. She only saw

Good Times. Everything she knows is from her friends at Good Times. Thank you, TV land. She's like, I was talking to my friend, Florida. Let's not smear our border patrol. They're trying to do the best

they can. These children were brought here. Stop. They're trying to do the best they can? Like, they were like, we got these cages, man. We put roofs on them. I mean, it's $775 a night. You know, like, that's trying the best, I guess. Like, what?

How does that even make sense? They buy a lot of blankets. Can we also, I'd like to remind y'all that the Border Patrol shot a little girl not a couple weeks ago, a little Guatemalan girl, because she was walking away. I don't know if they, maybe they thought she was MS-13. I don't know. She looked threatening. But, so, they're not necessarily doing the best they can.

Ugh. And that's okay. Stop. When we come back, we're going to play a game. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back.

Woo! Kellyanne Conway, hold for applause. In many ways, she's not only the face of the Trump administration, but she's also the face of the Trump administration's dishonesty. She's known for greatest hits like Inventing a Terrorist Attack, Creating the Term Alternative Facts, and pioneering the art of killing the part of yourself that feels shame so that you can say or defend anything.

But there's an outside critic who is fed up with the Trump administration's chaos and mendacity. He's a prominent lawyer and conservative. He was once in the running for Solicitor General under the Trump administration. He has taken to Twitter to point out the hypocrisy, criminality, and destruction of his party's leader. His name is George Conway. And he's Kellyanne Conway's husband. Now, I also want to say, we don't know shit about their marriage. I don't care about their marriage. And people are complicated, and relationships are complicated.

But if my partner thought my boss was a criminal and said it publicly on the regular it would be an issue for us so that's why we're going to play a game called it's my conway or the highway would anyone out there like to play the game hi what, what's your name? My name's Walisha. What is it? Walisha. Walisha. Walisha or Willisha? Either. I'm gonna go Walisha. I like it. Gosh. Thank you. Gosh.

Thanks so much. I've been waiting so long to do this. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Are you from Nashville? I'm actually from Alabama. You're from Alabama. A lot of people from Alabama. That's cool.

How many people came up here from Alabama? Anybody drive up from Mississippi? Cool. Anybody drive down from Kentucky? Wow. And we let you all cross our borders and you aren't causing any trouble. Anybody come over from Georgia?

Anybody from New Jersey? That's okay. Enough. Welisha, are you ready to play the game? I'm so ready. May I ask you a personal question? Absolutely. Are you in a relationship? Yes, I'm married. You May I ask you a personal question? Absolutely. Are you in a relationship?

Yes, I'm married. You're married. To a man or a woman? To a man. And do you think anyone he works with on a daily basis should be in jail, and do you tweet about it? I can't answer that question. Okay. So, Alicia.

Okay, Alicia. Okay, Alicia. Perfect. Honestly, honestly, leave us with a mystery. Question number one. Kellyanne Conway recently called the Mueller investigation, quote, phony baloney because collusion isn't a crime. A few days later, what did George Conway have to say?

Is it A? Wow, Kellyanne, it sounds like you had a long day. Why don't you kick those sensible heels off and let me massage some eucalyptus oil into your tired arches? Or is it B? Sometimes I can't decide what I love more about you, your thoughtful ideas or the caring, empathic,

empathetic look in your eyes when you share them. By the way, I can watch the kids if you want to go out tonight. I feel like it's been forever since you had a girls night. Or is it C? It isn't very surprising to see the president tweet a meritless legal position. I'm guessing it's C. It was, it was C.

You're one for one, Alicia. Question two. A few weeks back, there was a lot of hullabaloo about Trump's ability to pardon himself and those being investigated by Mueller. Kellyanne said, this whole exercise of whether he will pardon himself is a ridiculous question on its face. What did George Conway have to say? Is it A?

He called the report that Trump might pardon two top ex-aids flabbergasting. Is it B? It was morning, and just before she was scheduled to wake, George kissed Kellyanne on the forehead and whispered into her ear, My friends called me Borat because I'm always talking about my wife. Travis, I want you to know that I cannot believe that works.

Or is it C? He refused to take a public position, even though he knows that a self-pardon runs counter to the very idea of the rule of law, and the calling people worried about this issue ridiculous after the president floats the idea himself is so disingenuous it hurts your chest to think about it. Wow, that sounded like more than 280 characters,

so I'm going to go ahead and still go with C. No, it was A. It was A. He called the idea of the pardon flabbergasting. Wow, okay. Question three, Welisha. All right. Just last week, George Conway penned a long article for Lawfare entitled what?

Is it A? I am very comfortable with the legal arguments being made for Trump on television. Or was the title B? What happens when your celebrity hall pass is your wife? Or was the title B? What happens when your celebrity hall pass is your wife? Or was it C? The terrible arguments against the constitutionality of the Mueller investigation. C. It was. It was C.

Final question. Over and over, Kellyanne Conway has called the Mueller investigation a witch hunt. Which one of these is something George Conway has sent from his phone? Is it A? A text to Kellyanne featuring two otters holding hands that says, text me when you're coming home and I'll get us Thai or something. I figured you'd be late, so I had a small snack at 3 p.m. so we'd be able to eat together.

Or is it B? He posted a Facebook video holding the Constitution and staring at the camera, holding perfectly still as the entire song, Opposites Attract, by Paula Abdul, played in full. Or was it C? He retweeted an article where Richard Nixon called the Watergate investigation a witch hunt.

Definitely C. It is. It's C. He subtweeted his wife. Well, Alicia, you have won the game. When we come back, we'll have some more fun stuff. You know? Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.

And we're back! Over the last week, Trump and his band of cronies and TV maniacs have been saying some truly disgusting things about parents and children Trump has been ripping apart at the border. You may be surprised, not everyone thinks the Trump-branded frightened toddler warehouses are a bad thing. In fact, there are Republicans justifying his actions, some by actively dehumanizing and lying about asylum seekers

and others being held. And you know what? It felt like maybe we've heard it all before, and we thought maybe you had too. So we want to play a game we are calling Trump Goon or Politician in X-Men Who is Racist Against Mutants. X-Men who is racist against mutants. So, is Lee Snodsmith here?

Is Lee Snodsmith here? Where? So, you tweeted that your son, it's his birthday and he wants to play a game. I thought the X-Men game would be great. You're 13? Yes, I am 13 years old now. What's your name?

My name is Cooper Snodsmith. I live in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. That's great. It's Cooper? Yes. Do you follow politics? Yes. I'll ask my parents sometimes if I don't understand something.

Why our current president will sometimes he'll randomly go in a hushed voice like this is what we gotta do man I love Cooper I love Cooper alright that's so funny Cooper

we're glad to have you I'm sorry about the cursing I don't mind I don't mind people Cooper, we're glad to have you. I'm sorry about the cursing. I don't mind. I don't mind. People, you go to my school, it just happens, okay? All right, Cooper. Here's how it works. I'm going to read you a quote,

and you're going to have to tell us if it's from a Trump goon or a politician in the movie X-Men who is racist against mutants. Are you familiar with the X-Men? No. I can try. Cooper. All right, here we go. I'll try. Let's get this started.

I think the American people deserve the right to decide whether they want their children to be in school with them, to be taught by them. X-Men. You got it, Cooper. When we talk about blank, what do we mean? We mean criminal organizations that turn cities and suburbs into war zones. No, Trump.

Yep, that was Jeff Sessions. You wouldn't believe how bad these people are. These aren't people. These are animals. Trump. Got it. They aren't human. I don't care if that sounds politically incorrect. It's the truth. Trump. Got it. They aren't human. I don't care if that sounds politically incorrect.

It's the truth. Trump. It was X-Men, Cooper. I'd ask you to go back through history and figure out where are these contributions that have been made by these other categories of people. Where did any other subgroup of people contribute more to civilization?

Trump. Yep, that was Steve King. There are people in the government and liberal media who, for whatever reason, would like you to believe that we have nothing to fear from the blank populace. I urge the American public to wake up and see the blank menace for what it is. I'm going to go with X-Men.

You got it. The American people are footing a really big bill for what is tantamount to a slow-rolling invasion of the United States. Trump. Yep, that's Trump goon Laura Ingraham. Terrorism is largely blank phenomena, not exclusively but largely with blanks

and committing or attempting dozens of terrorist attacks in recent years. Trump. Yep, that's Trump ally Tucker Carlson saying immigrants cause terrorist attacks. Depravity and violence are their calling cards, including brutal attacks and beheadings. Trump.

That's Sessions. And finally, the robot blew up our car. X-Men. You got it. Cooper, one final question. It's a bonus. One final bonus question. Was the phrase Operation Zero Tolerance

from X-Men or the Trump campaign? Trump administration. Trump administration. Actually, it's both. Operation Zero Tolerance is the name of a project advanced by the evil Senator Robert Kelly in X-Men's story from 1997.

It's also the name that Trump has been using to describe his immigration policy. Guys, give it up for Cooper. You've won the game. What a great kid. When we come back, the rant wheel. Don't go anywhere. Just love it or leave it, and there's more on the way.

And we're back. Now for the rant wheel. Here's how it works. We spin the wheel wherever it lands. We rant about the topic. This week on the wheel we have Santa Monica High School, gaming disorder, media mergers, calling instead of texting, the World Cup, Confederate monuments,

Antoine Rose, and Melania in Zara. Let's spin the wheel. It has landed on Antoine Rose, which is a topic that Simone suggested. I did. So Antoine Rose was a young African American, a boy who was shot and killed by police this week. He was a boy. He was absolutely a boy.

He was pulled over. He was in a car. He got out of the car and the officer shot him in the back. He was unarmed. He didn't do anything, but he did get out of the car and run. And so there have been protests, and this happened in Pittsburgh. So there have been protests all throughout the city. There are all these folks, celebrities talking about they're coming into town. And I think it's just another reminder that every single

day in this country, there are folks who live in fear of being ripped out of their homes, that they're undocumented. There are parents who kiss their kids goodbye, put them in a vehicle, watch them drive away and wonder if their child is going to come home at night. Antoine Rose, really, his crime was being a young black man who was scared of the police and ran away, and that cost him his life. Let's spin it again. It has landed on calling, not texting. And I'm going to take a counterintuitive position. It is this.

The phone is nice. And I call people. I'm one of the people that calls people. I call my friend Dan. I call Spencer. I call my mom. I call other people. Sometimes they screen it. You know what happens? I call them again. What, what, what is it? You called twice. Yeah, hey, what's up? How you doing?

Just saying hi. Why didn't you text me? I didn't want to. Want to hear your voice. Friend from college. In the middle of a work day. I don't believe in this tyranny of texting. You'd think calling

John and Tommy, you'd think that it was like a, you'd think that I was like grabbing them by the ears and ripping them off and shouting into them. You'd think that calling, calling Tommy is like, I don't know, attacking him with a knife.

What's happening? is like, I don't know, attacking him with a knife. What's happening? They've trained me not to call them. And fair enough. But I like the phone. And I don't care so much for texting all the time. And I don't care.

Call each other at random. Just do it. Take the phone back. It's a still call the phone. It's not called a texter. Spin it again. It has landed on Confederate monuments, which was suggested by Dr. Ben Sawyer.

Oh, yes, it was. You know, guys, a lot of historians will tell you that the Civil War was about slavery. They're right. 100%. People will say it's about state rights. And ask them to list the rights. It's just the right to own slaves. That's all of them.

I'm going to let you in on that. And then people keep on trying to defend it. They say, well, you've got to respect the Confederate soldier. But I'll tell you, you don't. Here's why. Fought one war, fucking lost. I'm angry about this because on my campus at Middle Tennessee State University, we have a building named after Nathan Bedford Forrest. It is the ROTC building. And this drives me crazy because I've got so many great students that are in ROTC. Some of them are black students. And you know what the Confederacy

was trying to do? Kill people in the army that they're in. That's what it was. It was about breaking down this system. And people try to try to push off like, you know, far as being the grand dragon of the KKK. It's like, you can't push that off. They're like, yeah, we've got a historical commission here in the state. We actually voted at MTSU to change this fucking building's name. And they stopped us. Your small government Republicans in Nashville stopped the people of my campus from changing the name of something

that destroys everything good about the American past and makes brilliant young people feel bad. I'm the third great grandson of a Confederate soldier. All right? The great thing about America is not having to be what your freaking great grandfather was. And I'll end on saying this. I'll end on saying this.

My third great-grandfather was conscripted into the Confederate Army in January of 1865. By April of 1865, they could not find him because he abandoned like 30 to 50% of the Confederate Army. Almost half the Confederate Army. Almost half the Confederate Army was through with the Civil War before it was over. I think it's time we are too. That's great. I think that's a great place to leave it.

I want to end on a high note, as we do. I think it's really inspiring we've got a kid like Cooper here who cares and who's paying attention. We saw Stacey Abrams yesterday in Atlanta. People came out and responded when they saw what Trump was doing at the border. You know, I think a lot of us feel every day like the rules of politics have been abandoned, but not all of them. And enough of the rules are still there that we can win.

It's inspiring to see how much people have donated. I think over $15 million went to RAICES and just to help people at the border. And I think our great challenge is how do we turn our anger but also our enthusiasm into votes, and I think we can do it. And we have to fight every day to do it. You have to win this Senate seat in Tennessee. And I hope, you know, there's a lot of debate about whether or not we are going to, you know, what does it politically mean that these images are on television?

But forget the politics of it. It means we have to win because we have to send a message that this is not the country we want to be. And I agree with you when people say this is not who we are. What we do is exactly who we are. Every time. It's true for people and it's true for a country. It is who we are. But we have to change who we are.

We have to change the people in power. And we have to stop letting them pit working people against each other, as Ben said. And we have to do whatever Simone has told the DNC and the DCCC and any D organization to do, they should just fucking do it. All right? Whatever Simone says goes.

That is our show. I want to thank Simone Sanders, Liliana Segura, Dr. Benjamin Sawyer, Ryman Auditorium, and the City of Nashville. Thank you so much. Good night!