Lovett or Leave It - Gay for Justice

Episode Date: June 20, 2020

Nicole Byer is back and joins for the monologue. Adam Serwer discusses the Supreme Court's DACA decision, the diversity of the protest movement, and Juneteenth. Plus we quiz Philip Picardi on campy religious ceremonies and talk about his new podcast on spirituality. And we test organizers in six battleground states to see if they're ready for the fall. What a week. Even some... good news?... whatever that is.

Welcome to the 15th episode of Love It or Leave It, Back in the Closet. That song, which is incredible, was sent by Jack Carr and Lizzie. We want to use a new one each week. If you want to make one, you can send it to us at hey at crooked.com, and maybe we'll use yours and tweet it at me because I love to see them. Also, some housekeeping. To celebrate Pride, we're hoping you'll join Crooked for what we're calling our first and hopefully last annual at-home Pride parade. It is a live virtual event featuring a bunch of Crooked hosts

and special guests to raise money for LGBTQ organizations, including groups on the ground fighting right now for trans lives. So please watch. It'll be on Crooked Media's YouTube channel on Wednesday, June 24th at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific for a 90-minute parade. It'll be hosted by me and Travelle Anderson, who I love, and we'll be joined by some awesome special guests. You don't want to miss it. It's going to be very fun. I purchased glitter. I purchased some wings. I purchased a garland. I'm getting in the spirit, so I hope you join. It's going to be very fun. Later in the show, we'll be joined by The Atlantic's Adam Serwer, Phil Picard, who has a great new podcast on Crooked Media, and iQuiz organizers mobilizing to beat Donald Trump as part of our Vote Save America Adopt a State program, which was very fun and very inspiring. But first, she's the host of the baking show Nailed It on Netflix,

the podcast Why Won't You Date Me, and author of the book Very Fat, Very Brave, which is out now, Returning Champion, Nicole Byer. Returning Champion is so kind. It sounds like I've done something. You did. What did I do? So kind. It sounds like I've done something. You did.

What did I do? You've achieved the highest status of a love it or leave it guest, which is beloved figure, always desired. That's nice. This is nice. I just woke up, and to have a man say to me I'm always desired is a dream come true. A gay man. Doesn't matter.

But still nice. Truly doesn't matter. Just a deeper voice true. A gay man. Doesn't matter. But still nice. Truly doesn't matter. Just a deeper voice telling me I am desired. Feels really nice right now. I'm so horny. I'm gonna butch it up. I'm so horny. I hate quarantine.

This is my best. This is my straight voice. Hey, Nicole. That's what the voice I used in high school. Wait, really? No. Everybody knew but me. Everybody knew but me.

How are you doing, by the way? How is your stay at home life? I oscillate between this is okay and I'm going crazy. The news has truly made me feel like I'm going crazy. And then I've been trying to post shit that's helpful, but then I've also been trying to fact-check stuff as well, and that's a little exhausting. But also I found out so much more about black history.

And I was like, I feel like a conspiracy theorist. I'm like, wait, all of this fucking happened. So maybe the government really doesn't care about like it's just but then it's just like, yeah, it is all true. Yeah, I feel crazy. It's a real moment of revelation in our society. It's it's incredible. All right, let's get into it. What a week.

Nicole has graciously agreed to join us for the monologue, to judge it mercilessly, to help me figure out what works and what doesn't, to bring her expertise to bear on these jokes. I don't know if I'm going to be good at this. It's impossible to me to imagine a scenario in which you're not. No, I might be really bad at this. I don't think so.

Let's try it. Okay. Let's try it. As coronavirus numbers start to surge once again across the country, Trump tried to assuage concerns by saying he was working with the same scientist who had created the AIDS vaccine. When told there was no AIDS vaccine, Trump said, then what were those pills Jeffrey Epstein gave me at Prince Andrew's Halloween party?

That's good. I like that one. That made me teehee a little. It was a small chuckle, but I liked it. All right. All right. All right.

We're warming up. After initially ignoring calls to cancel his Tulsa rally or move it outdoors to mitigate risk of spreading the coronavirus, Trump claimed that the left is trying to COVID shame him out of big rallies and to wear a mask. And I think it's very good to see even right wing nuts like Trump embrace the COVID positivity movement. My lungs, your grandmother, my choice. OK, this joke is tough because it's a joke on a joke do you notice yeah trump is a joke like

you want to have a rally with thousands of people and not require masks you're trying to kill your base but then your base interacts with other oh boy because he's such an unexamined person he makes decisions from such like a well of psychological need. And it does seem that there's a part of him that genuinely just wants to kill his own fans because he doesn't like anyone who likes him is someone not worthy of being respected in return. And deep down he knows it. Maybe, but I feel like Trump operates every day,

24 hours a day. The way I operate when I go to the grocery store, when I forget to take my ADD medicine, like the other time I go to the grocery store when I forget to take my ADD medicine. The other time I went to the supermarket, I bought a tiny child's umbrella with flames on it. I don't need that. But I feel like he lives like that all the time. He's like, I'm going to do whatever I want because it seems like a good idea right now. Oh boy. He's our president. Okay, more monologue. Imagine that's how I said monologue.

Money log. I'm delighted. Okay, more monologue. Imagine that's how I said monologue. Monologue. I'm delighted. I'm always delighted to see you. After Trump moved the rally from Friday to Saturday because it coincided with Juneteenth, the president claimed he made Juneteenth very famous and that nobody ever heard of it before him. Pretending to discover what millions already knew about, he's the Christopher Columbus of Juneteenth. Hmm. Hmm. I like that. That's what it deserves. That's what it deserves. It deserves a huh.

It deserves a huh. I guess I did honk at that joke. I liked it. It was good. It made me, it was a light chuckle. Also this week, we had two major Supreme Court cases result in, I don't know how you pronounce it exactly. It's, it's, I think it's pronounced good news. Good news. How do you say it? Good news. I've never heard it. Good news. Good news. Good news. It's good news.

Good news. Good news. First, in a 6-3 decision, Trump appointee Neil Gorsuch wrote on behalf of Chief Justice John Roberts and the course liberals that it is, quote, impossible to discriminate against a person for being homosexual or transgender without discriminating against that individual based on sex, end quote, which means LGBT people are protected under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act. You hear that, John and Tommy? Title VII, bitches. That's just a personal thing that's just me yelling at them yeah that's what i figured somebody from high school or something it's john and tommy oh wait no is john and tommy someone i should know it's just from positive

america oh i don't listen to podcasts i can't do it i tried once and it was so hard it's just people talking and then if you stop paying attention, they keep talking. And then you have to rewind it and you can't figure out where you stopped listening. It's too hard. This is a person who has five podcasts. So like, what am I doing? Yeah, you're definitely a fan of podcasts in one way. You have the most podcasts of anybody I know.

And I host two. Yeah, I host five. Is it really five? Yeah. So there's Why Won't You Date Me? Yes. Best Friends with Sashur Zameda. Newcomers with Lauren Lapkus.

We're watching Star Wars for the first time. Oh, yeah. I've seen so much Star Wars, and my hot take is it's not good. And then Drag Her with Manu Agapian, where we recap RuPaul's Drag Race. And then 90 Day Bay I have a Patreon where me and my friend watch and talk about

90 Day Fiancé and all of its spinoffs I love 90 Day Fiancé what is your favorite how many Star Wars films have you seen have you seen them all now is it done

I have seen them all I have seen two Ewok movies I have watched five episodes of Clone Wars I've watched the Holiday Special which is my number one movie the Holiday Special, which is my number one movie.

The Holiday Special is a perfect treat. I love it so much. So, yeah, no, I hear that. I've never seen the Holiday Special. Oh, you gotta. Can I ask you, which is your favorite of the films? I believe it is Empire Strikes Back. And then my second is Return of the Jedi.

And then I like the first prequel i like the phantom menace people don't like it but i love jar jar banks what a treat that thing is come on it's a big duck i love him all right back to the news so this is a huge ruling on lgbt issues that flies in the face of the trump administration's assault on trans people. You know, just last week, they put out a policy to discriminate against LGBT people in health care. That will be undone by this ruling. When reached for comment, Lindsey Graham said, If these rumors about me soliciting male prostitutes, even as I deny my own sexuality and support anti-LGBT policies, are true, and they sure seem true when you hear my voice, which sounds like I'm a character actor playing South Carolina's most beloved interior decorator who appears on one episode of Designing Women to help Dixie Carter teach Delta Burke a lesson about tolerance.

And the straight director said, have fun with it. Ham it up. We ought to at least pause and recognize the incredible well of sadness and personal annihilation this represents before we enjoy it too much, even though I am one of the great cowards of the Trump era. And the way this came to light is kind of fun and we deserve it. And it's like maybe I am being blackmailed. Who knows? It was like a road trip. There was hills and valleys for that joke.

I liked it, but I kept, okay, here's what happened. I really started zoning out. And then I was like, why didn't we get the full story on Lady G? Like, I'm not for like outing people. I don't think it's nice. But I was like, but this is juicy and he's not nice. It is juicy. He's not nice. He does have an anti LGBT record, though. It's like he's a public figure who doesn't get to pretend to be one thing and hurt the people,

hurt LGBT people's entire career. That said, there is a little bit of like, oh, do we have permission to out this guy? Do we have permission? I want the permission because I want to do this without feeling bad. I want to like be part, you know, and it does make me a little bit uncomfortable. So here's what I actually hoped had happened. I was like the person who brought it up. I was like, it would be so powerful if he was like, the reason why I'm bringing it up is because sex work should be decriminalized. And then made it like a point that's like, if politicians use sex workers, why can't we be protected?

Yeah. But everyone was like more interested in the juice. Yeah, I know. That's my I actually felt that way, too, that like I feel like that Lindsey Graham is hypocritical on LGBT issues is important. But the fact that he's possibly by these, you know, according to these these rumors, like paying for sex work while obviously not supporting any efforts to decriminalize sex work, I think, is the like the kind of greater hypocrisy inside of this. I don't know. Regardless, what a sad life he's chosen for himself. Yeah.

Imagine just like hiding who you fuck. Oh, I said earlier I was so horny. I stand by it. If I was fucking someone right now, I would tell everybody. Then on Thursday, the Supreme Court struck down Trump's attempt to overturn DACA, meaning that 700,000 people brought to America as children who belong here, who did nothing wrong, and can no longer be threatened with deportation. Trump responded by tweeting,

Do you get the impression that the Supreme Court doesn't like me? Trump, as we said, is president, and he still is only respected by people he doesn't respect. For example, this election really is the last hurrah of the swamp of the establishment. How do you combat that? How do you get people to understand that message? Because when I look at your accomplishments, they're incredible. You've delivered for America for the first time in modern political history, done the things you said you were going to do. At the same time, what people I don't think give you credit for is that you did that under unprecedented circumstances, under unprecedented resistance. You had nonsense impeachments. You had three years of Russia hoaxes. You had everything working against you and you were still able to do it. Now, you can't really hear it in the audio, Nicole, but the look on Donald Trump's face

while he has to endure his son praising him, his dumb fucking son, he really does genuinely despise anyone who seems to like him. He's like, what are you, stupid? I know, his kids, they're the wildest looking bunch, except for Tiffany. Tiffany, I like him. He's like, what are you, stupid? I know. His kids, they're the wildest looking bunch. Except for Tiffany. Tiffany, I like Tiffany. Tiffany seems to be staying away from things.

But Don Jr. and the other one, what's the other one? Who's him? Well, there's Eric. And then there's Ivanka. Both Don Jr. and Eric have really discovered the whole beard thing. But they look like they've been, people have put beards, you know those magnet faces? They look like those, they don't look right. They don't look right.

And Eric, to me, he looks like a vampire from Buffy. They tend to want their vampires on the CW to be a bit more symmetrical. Like, I definitely think he would audition. Like, he definitely fits the description on the, on the, like, what do you call it? That thing they put out to solicit vampire auditions. Casting notice. Sorry. Sorry.

Sorry, Hollywood. I'm deeply insulted because, like, that's discrimination against me and other Hollywood people. But you didn't know what a fucking casting notice was. Anger. Anger. I wish I said anger when I was actually angry. Anger, anger. I want to print mood masks.

And basically, because you're going to need to have masks, so you should have to, and you can't see what emotions you're displaying. So you should just have four hanging by your front door. One that says angry, happy, sad, scared. That's the four. Those are the four feelings. There's only four. That's it. They're scared. That's the four. Those are the four feelings. There's only four.

That's it. They're all some combination of those four. New theory. Okay. New theory. Okay. Meanwhile, last weekend, video of President Trump walking haltingly down a ramp at West Point raised new concerns about his health, especially when it seemed he had trouble raising

a glass to his lips. And we still have not been given a good explanation for his sudden trip to Walter Reed late last year. Trump responded defensively in a tweet, blaming the ramp for being long and steep and immediately called for the National Guard to open fire on the ramp. All right. I like that one a lot. There we go.

We got something. But I thought it was really funny because if I saw that in a headline, I wouldn't blink an eye. I'd be like, of course. Yes, Trump shot a ramp. I don't know how you feel about it. Like, I am uncomfortable with this. Like, look at him. He can barely walk down a ramp.

But he also, like, he has made an issue of Biden's health, of Hillary Clinton's health. He's attacked people with disabilities. He attacks anybody for any kind of, like, masculine notion of weakness. And then he does this. Like, how do you feel about that, Nicole? Like, how do you feel about the fact that let's throw everything we got at this guy. And he's going to make Joe Biden's health an issue. And yet we're making fun of somebody uh in this way about whatever physical weakness

physical ailment i mean it would be one thing if he was a normal human being who didn't have these wild responses every time someone said something about a weird thing he's done like he tweeted he was like i ran down the rest of the ramp it's like what are you a 10 year old what's wrong with you who fucking cares if you ran or not and then the whole drinking water thing people are like oh he he can't drink water i'm like no no he can't read a prompter well he's trying to like keep his place on the prompter i don't know it feels weird to just be like look at the weird shit he's doing like he's been doing weird shit. Like, it's nothing, nothing's new. Oh boy, I can't wait to never have to talk about this man again.

I sort of am mentally bracing for the, like, we're going to be arguing about Donald Trump for the rest of our lives in some way or another because the second Trump is gone, there's going to be all this effort to revise the history and all these people who are complicit, if not downright involved, are going to be claiming that they were trying so hard to stop him. Hopefully. That's like the best case scenario is that they're angry or angry at being accused of

being involved as opposed to the worst case scenario of them just continuing to do this. So I don't know. It's frustrating. It bums me out because history about this time will be different than what actually happened. Like it really, like, the truth lives somewhere. But, like, I don't know if kids in school will be taught about how awful these last four years were. I think it's going to be hard to capture how dangerous and stupid it was at the same time.

Like, they're going to be like, but wait, there must have been some other reason he didn't wear a mask. And it's like, no. No, he just didn't want to wear one. Which I guess he thinks it's a mask. No. He just didn't want to wear one. Which I guess he thinks it's not masculine. Yeah. He thinks it's gay to wear a mask. So what? All surgeons are gay? That's so insane.

It's really weak. Surgeons are sort of weak, weak people. My God. So are anybody who wears a mask. I really can't wait until he goes away. He's so bad. Melania's bad too. Where's Baron?

Where is Baron? Where is poor Baron? It is also like, wait, wait. So let me understand. So they'll teach you about World War II. They'll say, all right, you grew victory gardens and people bought bonds and they kind of participated in this national project and the factories built tanks and airplanes really quickly and it was a whole national effort and so and you're telling me that okay so the the coronavirus came and you needed to make a bunch of masks did they do that

oh no they didn't do it no they didn't do that at all didn't do it and then the the virus kept was still very bad and you just stopped being careful yeah yeah we got bored yeah we stopped washing our hands we went to the beach. We all flew down to Florida and decided to die. Man, Florida is wild. Everybody who lives there is nuts. Last time I was in Florida, I was driving on a highway and a man decided he didn't want to be on the road no more,

so he drove on the median. And I was like, sir, this is Florida. You have nowhere important to go. It's a wild, wild state. It really is. A study published in the scientific journal Physics of Fluids claims that flushing a toilet

can generate a plume of aerosol droplets almost three feet in the air. Those droplets may contain the coronavirus and may stay airborne long enough to be inhaled by the next person who uses the bathroom. Though to be honest, Nicole, I haven't read the article because I already hit my 10 article limit at physics of fluids. Oh boy.

I'm reading about all the ways we're covered in a fine mist of virus laden human shit. That's depressing. I got to subscribe, I think. I think you should subscribe, but also, how depressing. It's not great. Toilet plumes? It's not great.

2020 has been just a real interesting year. But also, it's like, who knew corona was in shit? People be shitting out corona? I know it's in sperm, because I looked that up, because I'm what? We know why you looked it up.

Hey, Nicole, we know why you looked it up. Oh, why? For your medical experiments? For your work for your Lancet research? I think we know why you looked up sperm. I know why I would. Oh, but a toilet plume. Imagine like going to a gas station,

being in that nasty ass bathroom, and now you have to deal with like a plume of Corona. This is exhausting. Also, after 130 years, the Aunt Jemima brand name and image will be retired. In the announcement, PepsiCo said that Aunt Jemima was based on racist stereotypes. Pepsi has announced their new brand will be a Kardashian

giving out pancakes to stop racism. That was funny. It's okay. I liked it. You can admit it was okay. No, no, I liked it. I love that Pepsi commercial that Kendall did years ago. I hope she never gets to forget she did that. What a mistake that was.

But also, it was that easy for Pepsi to take away Aunt Jemima, which we've all known is a racist figure for my whole life. I've always known. And it took them just to go, oh, this is bad. Why don't you do it in like 1999 of your own volition? Why do we have to come for you? I'm tired.

I just also remember every few years there'd be a consternation around Aunt Jemima or Uncle Ben or one of these other sort of stereotypes. And then they'd be like, don't worry, we're revising it. And then it would be like, she's Aunt Jemima, but she's in a business suit. You know, it's different. And it's like, but you see where it came from. It's like, it's still the same idea. Yep. I think at one point Aunt Jemima was wearing like a headscarf and then they took it away.

And I was like, you didn't do it. Still racist. Yeah. When I was little, I used to think that Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben were married. And Mrs. Buttersworth, she was married to a Frangelico bottle because that kind of looks like a man. Oh, you know, just having fun as a kid. Read more jokes. Why are syrups shaped like ladies? I don't know. It's weird, but I do prefer Mrs. Buttersworth. Is she racist? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think she is because Buttersworth, I don't think that's a black name. I think she's English. But the bottle's brown, so she's black. Uh-oh. Is she a black English? A blinglish? I guess you would never say

that. Well, I just made a new word for all the black people in England. You're blinglish. You hear that, England? Just something for you to noodle on there. Food for thought. Someone in England is going to come to me and be like, we hate it, age.

And then I'm going to be like, then you did an accent. Anyway, one of the biggest stories in politics this week, Trump's former national security advisor, John Bolton, has a new book out. The book paints a chilling portrait of a self-serving opportunistic warmonger. And that's just the author bio. Come on. That's all that deserved. Fair enough. Bolton outlines numerous instances when the president tried to intervene in criminal inquiries for his own political gain. And he claims that Trump told China's president that he thinks building concentration camps for the Uyghurs was exactly the right thing to do and

asked China to manipulate trade policy to get him reelected in 2020. It's easy, Nicole, to be numb to this sort of thing. But these are among the most damning revelations we have ever seen about Trump, especially from someone who is a senior and deeply involved in decision-making and who, because he's an old-fashioned pre-Trump monster and not one of these newfangled Trump MAGA-era monsters, actually was respected by traditional Republicans. Two years ago, Marco Rubio said, I know John Bolton well and believe he is an excellent choice who will do a great job as

national security advisor. How did Rubio react when the revelations in this book came out? All right, here's what he said. He said, this is his courageous statement. I have no reason to call Bolton a liar. I have no reason to call the White House a liar. You're not there. You don't know. It's a book. People write things in books.

But if you're not physically there to hear it and see it, how could you possibly opine? Oh, boy. Look, I wasn't on the moon, all right? Did I see the moon landing happen? I saw it on TV. Is it real? I have no idea.

Maybe I've never seen the back of the Declaration of Independence. Is there a treasure map back there? Possibly. Possibly. I only believe in things I see directly. I do not agree that it is possible to gather information methodically and use it to evaluate to our best ability what is true and what is not oh by the way i'm marco rubio the head of the intelligence committee

more of a comment oh boy i mean it's a joke but also it's a joke it's just like a real life joke everything is so fucked up what do you mean you don't know because you weren't there everything is dumb. My God. Okay, so Rubio thinks Bolton is good. He thought he was an excellent choice, smart, trustworthy person to be National Security Advisor, really serious role, right? You're not going to say someone's up for that role that you supported unless you think they're trustworthy. Rubio also used to say all the time that Trump is a con artist, can't be trusted, doesn't

tell the truth, and that Trump can't handle the nuclear codes, is not responsible. Rubio was asked after he dropped out and started praising Trump, what about all these previous comments? And he basically said, I'm not disavowing anything I said. So it continues to be Rubio's position to this day that Donald Trump is a con artist who can't be trusted with the nuclear codes, who doesn't lie, and who he supports. He believes it's just a complete mess because he's just a completely cowardly person. I mean, I feel like that's just a lot of Republicans. They don't like him, but they won't go against him.

And it's like, but why? Don't you want to be on like a good side of history? Like, what the fuck? Bolton sat on all of this information as impeachment was unfolding around Trump attempting to extort Ukraine. Bolton refused on all of this information as impeachment was unfolding around Trump attempting to extort Ukraine. Bolton refused to testify. And even if he didn't testify, he could have gone public at any time. Instead, he saved his evidence for his book so that he could make what the AP reported was a deal worth about $2 million.

And no, Nicole, I just want to be clear. I think it is completely outrageous to refuse to help your country in order to make $2 million. That said, I get it. Nicole, if I told you that you had information, incredible, damning information, it might not lead to the removal of Donald Trump, but it would surely be damning evidence about Donald Trump. And if you just sat on it, just kept it to yourself for six months, you would get $2 million. Would I do it?

If all I had to do is sit on it for six months and then I could tell people after six months? Yeah. Yeah. He's lasted four years. What's another six months? Which sounds awful, but like I get to tell people and I get to get money. That's what I'm saying. Look, he's lasted four years. What's another six months? Which sounds awful, but I get to tell people and I get to get money. That's what I'm saying. Look, he's disgusting.

Obviously, he should have. I'm joking. We're joking. He should have participated in the impeachment inquiry. He had no business sitting on this important information to the nation. It's despicable. It's not just about six months. There was an ongoing impeachment.

He had critical information. He is a despicable human being. I get it. I just get it. It's shameful. And Nicole and I- But is it $2 million tax-free? I think probably, no.

I think it's a $2 million deal. You got to figure after his agents get a cut and his lawyers get a cut. So you probably get like 1.3. And taxes. If not, if he's lucky. If he's lucky. If he's lucky. Yeah.

You know? That's not enough money. No. I take it back. It's not enough. You'll have to give me 10 million. She needs more for it. She needs more for it.

The DOJ filed a lawsuit seeking to block the release of Bolton's book, which I'm pretty sure will be very good for Bolton's book sales. I wish someone would stop my book sales. I know. See what I'm saying? I don't know how my book is doing. I don't even know. Who do you ask? I don't know. Look, the idea of writing a book is so crazy to me.

I can barely... Ask Ronan. Who does he ask? Is he home? Hello? Ronan, hello? We have a kind of strict divide during the day. We work separately.

He also talks to sources on the phone, but he puts it on speaker and records. And so he just has these incredibly loud, sensitive conversations that I have to stay away from. But we're doing okay. That's very funny. And lastly, this week, Congressman Matt Gaetz revealed he has a secret adopted Cuban son named Nestor,

who he has been hiding from public view for years. Gaetz also told People magazine the adoption is not formal and there is no paperwork. And I refuse to comment on this any further. That's it. Not going to say a word. i okay i didn't know the specifics of it because i like gently saw it on twitter but like yep you adopted somebody there's no paperwork he's got a whole other ass family that raised him but you adopted him and sir you were fucking looney tune that's so wild like do people not listen to the words coming out of their mouths anymore? I adopted

a secret son. There was no paperwork. He doesn't live with me. I didn't raise him, and I'm not going to tell you anymore. Man, that's really funny. Oh, boy. Well, Nicole, you know, you said at the jump that you

weren't sure how this was going to go, and I had confidence that this was going to be endlessly entertaining. Was it fun? It was so fun for me. I hope it was fun for you. I did have fun. I will say 2020, man, is wild. But I think it's going to turn around in October.

Don't ask me why. I hope so. I don't know. I hope so. I just think October. October's going to be good. It's up for us. We'll be the ones to turn it around.

We got to turn it around. That's our job in October, Nicole. Hell yeah, dude. Yeah, let's do it. And on that be the ones to turn it around. We got to turn it around. That's our job in October, Nicole. Hell yeah, dude. Yeah, let's do it. And on that note, the great Nicole Byer, thank you so much for joining us. This was so much fun. Thank you for having me. I truly had a very nice time.

It's always nice to see you. And you too. I think you're a nice man with a good heart. Oh my, and I feel the same way about you. Oh, thank you. I'm a nice man with a good heart. I knew you were going to jump on that, all right? I knew you were going to to catch it. All right. Took a nice moment. You ruined it. You ruined it. Nicole Byer, everybody. We come back. We're going to play a game to celebrate pride with Phil Picardi.

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. He is an award-winning journalist and editor best known for his roles as the editor-in-chief of Out Magazine, chief content officer for Teen Vogue, and now the host of Crooked's newest podcast, Unholier Than Now. Please welcome Philip Picardy. Yes, here I am, the devil in the flesh. Look at that. Look at that.

So we're going to play a game in honor of Pride. But before we do, can you tell us a little bit about the podcast? Because I've listened to the first two episodes. They're out now. I think by the time you hear this, the third episode should be out. Can you tell people what the podcast is about? Yeah, the podcast is basically about me trying to figure out what my relationship with God is. I don't know if you know this about me, John, this might be breaking news. I'm a homosexual and my upbringing was really trying to wrestle with Catholicism and my family's acceptance and also figuring out what my relationship was with God. And now that I'm newly engaged and also kind of going through some life changes of my own, I just moved to Los Angeles. I lost my job in December.

I left the media industry, et cetera, et cetera. I'm having a little bit of a crisis of identity, and it's turned into a crisis of faith. And so it's me trying to figure out how do I marry my values with my faith, and if that's possible or not. I was so excited about the show, and the conversations are really fascinating

because I do think that there is this tension for a lot of people who live in progressive, mostly secular, cosmopolitan life. I felt the same pull. I got engaged too. I think I'm still engaged. No, I am. I definitely am. And I don't know. Maybe it's also just a function of getting older. You start to realize that maybe sort of the absence of some of these community building, meaning building, spiritual building parts of your life that seem maybe either outmoded or unnecessary when you're younger, you start to realize the kind of role they can play in your life. I don't know if you've been feeling the same way. I feel exactly the same way. It's funny, the week before the podcast actually launched, I was marching with a group of people down the West

Side Highway and chanting, you know, hands up, don't shoot. And we were all kind of marching with our hands up as we crossed the highway and the cars were honking at us and people were raising their fists out the windows. And it was this immense moment of solidarity, but also of connectedness. And it really occurred to me, something really powerful does happen when people come together and congregate under a belief system.

This is not the belief system that I was raised in, for sure. I had to unlearn and then learn this belief system to go out to march that day, but it was incredibly powerful. And I realized that it is its own form of faith and coming to faith and spirituality. And that's that it is its own form of faith and coming to faith and spirituality. And that's kind of what I hope we get to convey with the messages of the podcast. It's not about going to church. It's not about going to temple. It's not about going to a mosque,

necessarily, if that's not your way, right? Faith can mean so many different things. It can have so many different expressions. So I hope that that resonates with people who also feel similarly to you. I think it's pretty amazing that you had that experience on the West Side Highway because I'm pretty sure God has no dominion there. That's actually, that's not a part. Yeah. You can't reach there. It's where the eagle is.

Maybe sometimes on the 59th Street Bridge, but honestly, rarely. Rarely. No, that's absolutely right. Now, as Phil mentioned, he is gay. I'm also gay. It is pride. Now, this is a pride marked by protests, not parades. It is a time that we're really kind of, you know, seeing a great conversation about the intersection of LGBTQ issues and some of the issues being raised by the Black Lives Matter movement. But it is also a moment where I think we can step back and talk about the influence

gay culture has had on pop culture and pop culture has had on gay culture specifically. I want us to talk today about what is camp and what is not camp. And I believe that this is a decision that is largely up to the LGBTQ community. Other people can be involved. They can advise. They can make suggestions. But the decision-making belongs to those in the flag,

as we'd say. An expression I just made up. In the flag. Okay. What do you think about that? I hope that Anna Wintour is not listening to this after presiding over the 2019 Met Gala, the theme of which was camp. I think that's a good place to start.

Okay. A gala themed as camp cannot be camp. That is correct. That is correct. I believe Susan Sontag would also agree with you there. I want to put some questions to you. Okay. So today, Phil has agreed to join us.

Do you want to say Phil or Philip? So I don't know what you prefer now. Do you say? Oh, you know what? It either works. I'm very fluid. Oh, nice. Yeah. Is that camp? Your nickname fluid. No. Okay. All right. Got it. So today we're going to play a game and the game is, is Newt Gingrich camp? I was about to answer, but I'm not supposed to answer now well we'll start there okay phil is newt gingrich camp i think that any figure that is extremely polarizing politically particularly people who use fire and brimstone and all of that are inherently in an eight league camp if you watched drag race uk for example the snatch game had Game had an amazing Margaret Thatcher. There also was an amazing Donald Trump character on that Snatch Game. These figures really do lend themselves

to larger than life, one-dimensional caricatures of humanity, and therefore they are very camp by nature. I'm going to pose a series of questions to you. In the spirit of your podcast, some will be political, some will be religious, some will be cultural. And you will tell us whether they are camp or not. Okay. I'm going to be canceled by the end of this. Okay, go ahead. Maybe, maybe. But you know what?

Do I just say yes or no? You just say yes or no. You can decide or you can negotiate. I just mean that it's happened and now it's done. All right, here we go. Okay, okay, okay. Gosh, I'm nervous. It's yes or no.

Okay. Or you can comment. Is Matt Gaetz's secret son camp? No comment. I am not touching that with a 50-foot pole, John Leavitt. Next question, ma'am. Is Marianne Williamson camp? Absolutely.

Yes, totally camp. I agree. I agree. Absolutely. It's not even a question. Is Moses parting the Red Sea camp? Not really. I think it's more of a stunt queen kind of a thing.

Not necessarily camp. Okay. Okay. Okay. Do you agree? I do agree with that. I do agree that that's more of a stunt queen kind of a thing, not necessarily camp. Okay. Do you agree? I do agree with that. I do agree that that's more of a stunt. I do think that the locusts has a camp energy.

Locusts have a camp energy? It's very over the top. Okay, interesting. I have to tell them that, the spokesperson for locusts. Is the Eucharist camp? Definite camp. Everything Catholicism is camp. There's costumes.

There are huge hats. There are color themes. And then, of course, there's this supposed magic that happens. Like the body of Christ. Hello, camp and extremely homoerotic. It is homoerotic. It also involves eating sometimes, which I think I think, I think gets part of it. Familiar with eating.

Yeah. It does seem as though priests who, you know, you know, you're going to take on the family business and you, uh, sweet effeminate son, you're going into the priesthood. Oh my gosh. Those boys definitely were like, I not totally sure this is for me, but I can wear velvet and I can have some fun up here. And there's a choir, okay? And I can lead that choir. Is Mitt Romney protesting

camp? Mitt Romney protesting is also a stunt. It is not camp. Okay, okay, okay. Is gerrymandering camp? Ooh. No, I don't think it is. No. That's just disenfranchisement. Yeah, no. It's too much about preserving power. If you're trying to preserve power, you're not. Yeah,

camp is more of a subversion or a wink of power, like a wink at power rather. Yeah. Is Lindsey Graham camp? Lindsey Graham is camp. Yes. Yes. Now, right now, I think that's happened. I think it's crossed. Definitely camp. Yes. Are Cain and Abel camp? Hmm. Arcane and able camp. I mean, I could see an amazing Cain and Abel reenactment show with two just buff homosexuals re-portraying that whole thing, maybe getting a little hot and sweaty and down and dirty before the murder. Maybe, yeah, I could see that being camp. I'm a little concerned about the fact that they're siblings. Oh, yeah. Well could see that being camp. A little concerned about the fact that they're siblings. Oh, yeah.

Well, there's that, although I do know plenty of gay men who look a lot alike and, you know, have loving relationships. So that's for another episode. What is the latest episode that just was released? Because I haven't even heard it yet. Okay, the latest episode is an interview about astrology for the apocalypse. It's an interview with Chani Nicholas. She's a noted queer feminist astrologer and we talk about how astrology spelled doom for 2020 and by the way

john love it there's a major astrological event happening on november 3rd oh no yes no you oh no should be concerned because if you want someone to win, it's looking damning. So I think you should listen to the episode. I don't know where I read this. It may be apocryphal. But I remember seeing that in like 1700s London, there was a they kept such accurate death records. One of the leading causes of death was planet because when they didn't know what somebody died, they just attributed it to like Saturn being in the wrong position. Okay. Well, maybe that had something to do with it. This is my diplomatic way of dealing with astrology. Neither you or I know, right? There's so many unknowns. We have to get comfortable with the

unknown if you want to be comfortable with faith, John Lovett. And I hope your audience listens to the podcast. Seriously, I will say like Phil has done such a great job of unpacking issues that we don't talk enough about, especially in progressive circles. And I think at a time of like, I think where we're all feeling anxious, we're all feeling a bit unmoored. We're all feeling like it's hard to find meaning in this culture. I think it's like asking really important questions. And the episodes are really entertaining. So it takes on these sort of complicated issues

that we all have, I think, feelings we don't always talk about and does it in a way that leaves you wanting to listen to more. So everybody, go check out Unholier Than Thou. It's awesome.

Wherever you listen to podcasts. Phil Bacardi, thank you so much. Thank you, John Lovett. Thanks for having me. Bye, Phil. Bye. When we come back, we'll talk about Trump's DACA decision, the pandemic response, and Juneteenth with The Atlantic's Adam Serwer.

Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. He's a journalist and current staff writer at The Atlantic. Please welcome Adam Serwer. Adam, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. So I want to start with a piece you wrote this week. The Supreme Court ruled that the Trump administration's attempt to repeal DACA, which protects about 700,000 undocumented immigrants brought to the U.S. as children, was not valid. John Roberts joined in his ruling with the Libs. Now, this was celebrated by many as a big win for DREAMers, which of course it is. But your view on this, I think it's worth talking about, which is that when you dig into the actual argument, Roberts seems to take more of an issue, not with Trump's policy, but with the kind of competence

with which he executed it. What did you think when you saw this ruling? Why was that your sort of takeaway from what Roberts said? So it's actually the other way around. The Libs joined Roberts in his opinion. And what he writes in his opinion is not that the Trump administration doesn't have the authority or the power to rescind DACA, but rather that the way that they did it was, quote, arbitrary and capricious, which is, of course, the way the Trump administration does everything. But in this particular case, it violated the Administrative Procedures Act. Now, this is the second time that Roberts has smacked down a big Trump priority on the basis of the Administrative Procedures Act. And it's sort of ironic because one of the early cases, the travel ban case in 2018, Roberts said basically, look, you know, we're approving

this because even though Trump said all this nasty stuff about Muslims on the campaign trail, the order doesn't mention religion, so it's not discriminatory. So it's a very Robertsian, if you don't overtly say you're being racist, then I'm fine with it. What happened a little bit later with the census case, where the Trump administration tried to do a nationwide racial gerrymander using the census, they gave this very bad faith explanation. They wanted to put amander using the census, they gave this very bad faith explanation. They wanted to put a citizenship question on the census, and they wanted to ultimately use that citizenship question to undercount the number of minorities in the United States.

And they said that they wanted this data on the census because they wanted to enforce the Voting Rights Act. And it was clearly a nonsense rationale. It was fake. It had been come up with by a now deceased Republican operative as part of a scheme to, in his words, enhance the voting power of white voters, which would in turn enhance the GOP's political power. And Roberts basically, he didn't mention those files, but he was basically like, look, this Voting Rights Act thing, you can't lie to the public

about why you're making a rule. And so that was the first time he smacked him down on the Administrative Procedures Act. And the DACA rule is the second. And basically what Roberts was saying is like, look, it's not my job to judge your policy. But if you want to do a policy, even if it's discriminatory, I'm not going to stop you. But you have to follow the rules for setting policy. And the Trump administration is so completely arrogant, lazy and incompetent that they couldn't even follow the rules that Roberts explicitly set out if they wanted to get done what they said that they wanted to get done. It's really sort of an extraordinary example of Trump wanting to be terrible and being constrained by his own incompetence. Well, it speaks to the fact that a more competent, monstrous administration will be able to successfully get the Roberts court to rule as it wishes. But, you know, there was something that Sotomayor said in her concurrence, although I get a little lost in when's the parts that

concur and not, but she made the point that basically the rhetoric that the Trump administration used around DACA raised questions about the animus with which they approach this issue, and that there was an equal protection issue raised by not what was maybe in the letter of what they wrote in their rescission, but in their conduct, in their larger language around this issue. It seems like there's a similar dispute that happened around the Muslim ban, which is that once they had rewritten it, to be less explicit, there was this desire to ignore all the commentary, all the words, all the obvious rationale around it to get away with upholding something like that. So Roberts has for a long time – he finds accusations of racism really personally offensive. He doesn't like it when people make them.

He doesn't like it when other people in the court make them. He doesn't like it when other people in the court make them. I mean, one of the most memorable exchanges, and I covered the court for a few years, one of the most memorable exchanges was during the Voting Rights Act case when he said, are you saying that white people in the South are more racist than everywhere else? And it was just, it was simply not a question that was related to the legal question that was being addressed with the Voting Rights Act. And of course, Roberts gutted a key part of the Voting Rights Act that prevented it from covering jurisdictions with a history of discrimination, which is actually quite different from saying white people in the South are racist. It is a standard based on past behavior, not based on who people are. Not based on what's in the specific hearts of a set of people, but rather the conduct.

Their actual actions and conduct in history. And so in this case, Sotom Roberts said in his majority opinion was these were unrelated questions that were made in a different context so they don't apply. And Sotomayor, who is the only Latino on the court, said, actually, I think it applies a whole lot if you're saying all these horrible things about Latinos and then you are implementing a policy that disproportionately affects people of Hispanic descent

in the United States, then actually there probably is a connection. And if it were me, I would allow the court to explore this question. This is a little reductive, but it's almost like, you know, when you're one of the only people of color in your workplace and you're trying to explain to some of your white colleagues that something is racist and they really don't get it. Sotomayor seems to play that role on the court fairly often. And she has clashed with Roberts previously around things like this. Depending on whose side you take in a situation like this, you either think Roberts is being obtuse or Sotomayor is holding the court to account for ignoring what is a pertinent issue.

But it is sort of striking that the two of them keep clashing on this particular ground. You know, as you mentioned, right, he made a similar kind of decision around the census, where he spoke about basically a matter of competence. And, you know, the conservatives on the court who dissented basically said, you're not taking a position on the actual substance of whether the president ought to have the power to do what the president did in DACA. And then you have Sotomayor saying, you're not addressing the racial animus that clearly propelled this policy from the very beginning. And it kind of speaks to the kind of problem of this kind of a ruling insofar as, yes, it's the outcome that so many of us hoped would happen, that we were afraid wouldn't happen, because there are these people who were brought to this country as children who are being punished and victimized for political purposes by no fault of their own. They deserve to be here. This is their home.

I don't know how you feel about this, but are you worried at all about the precedent that it sets for basically making a purely procedural argument here when we may in the future need a Democratic president to step in and undo some of the worst of the Trump administration's executive orders? Well, I think what Robert Cervantes would say was that he has to rule on the law and not how he feels about the policy. But I think, you know, something that Roberts does is he plants little time bombs on issues like this. He did this with the Voting Rights Act as well. He'll say something like, look, I'm going to do a ruling on this that you're not going to like. I'm going to hold back for now, but I'm going to let you know that if this comes up again, this is how I'm going to rule.

So I think what he's basically saying is he's leaving it up to the electorate in a way. He's saying if you elect Joe Biden, obviously Joe Biden is going to continue the policy and it's not going to come up. But if you reelect Trump and Trump's attorneys actually do the bare minimum of competent legal work to make this policy change, then I'm not going to interfere with it. And he kind of got the other Democratic appointees to go along with that rationale, at least in principle at this moment in time. Who knows if it would happen if this case comes up again, if Trump wins. But it is very John Roberts to say, look, I'm not going to rule on the big issue here now, but I'm warning you that I may

do that in the future, given another opportunity. On this front of incompetence, you recently wrote about the policy failure surrounding the pandemic through the lens of a food bank in San Antonio. Can you just tell us a little bit about what you saw and what you sort of learned down there? I mean, I'm sure some of your listeners have seen those photographs. There's like really striking photographs of just like lines and lines of cars full of people who are trying to get food help. And when I went, the thing that was so striking to me was that nine out of 10 people that I spoke to, and I spoke to dozens of people,

had never been to a food bank before. These were all people with jobs who are either unemployed because of the pandemic or unemployed, didn't have enough hours to earn enough money to buy food. And they had been essentially treading water since 2008. As the economy recovered extremely slowly, and most of those gains went to the top 15 percent of earners, this broad blue collar working class population had just sort of they were paying their bills month to month. They were paying their rent. They were buying their groceries. They were paying for their kids needs, but they weren't saving any money. They didn't have anything to cushion them from the immediate abrupt fall that happened when the economy shut down because of COVID. And it's striking to me, you know, considering the fact that, you know, Trump essentially ran on this slow recovery and how it didn't do enough for this particular group of people. You know, working class Americans did not benefit enough from the recovery. This is a key part of Trump's economic pitch. And then he gets into office and he

essentially his biggest legislative accomplishment to date remains a massive, regressive tax cut, even more regressive than the one that was passed by President George W. Bush, who is, you know, the son of New England royalty and a previous president. So it is, to me, that line of people is a symbol of a failure of four decades of policymaking. I mean, I think the Obama administration did what they could, but they obviously did not do enough to make sure that the economy grew fast enough and that the gains were evenly distributed enough to protect people from a situation like this. You know, it's really striking how much Trump walked into this promising to fix this rigged system and simply rigged it even further. And from my perspective, it's going to take a much more aggressive effort on behalf of these people in the United States to make things even close to right. Otherwise,

the next time that we have a downturn, it's going to be the same type of situation where you have all these people who are working hard every day and have jobs and are doing what they can are simply crushed by the second the economy tumbles a little bit. It's just not a way to run a country. tumbles a little bit. It's just not a way to run a country. It's also striking how the corporations we deem as being necessary for the economy to function no longer need to operate with any kind of a buffer. The airlines are profitable in good times and then need to be rescued in bad times, same of a number of other industries. One of the lessons to me, you know, in the early days of the Obama administration, the Obama economic team is pushing for the biggest stimulus possible. And they face recalcitrant Republicans who view this as a political opportunity, but also Democrats who basically have this skittishness about how big the number is.

And it could have kind of unmoored from any real basis, because why is it that you think your reelection is jeopardized by a $1.1 trillion stimulus, but not a $999 billion stimulus? What is the rationale there? But what's been interesting to me is even in the past few weeks, I think there is a disconnect. People not really seeing or accepting what you're describing, that what you saw in San Antonio, when you start to see that same kind of logic creep in, people worried about the deficit, people worrying that you're looking propagate.

Meanwhile, what's so clear, what we learned from the last crisis, how important it is to not fall for that, to keep pushing, to make sure that you're pushing money into the economy. There's a sense that lawmakers really only want to do the minimum to keep the economy going and then keep their hands off. There's a lack of imagination, even on the part of the Democrats. I mean, one of the things that I'm not by no means a great economics reporter, but one of the things that the economists I've talked to have told me is how important it is to have triggers in the stimulus so that the government keeps spending money to keep people afloat as long as the economy, the unemployment level is high enough to where the economy can't hum along on its own. And that's something that they learned precisely because the Obama stimulus did not

force the economy to recover at a speed or in a way that spread that prosperity widely enough to really help the people that it should have helped. And there's no interest in Congress in doing anything like that because the price tag is too high, even though it's the one thing that we know would work to make sure that the economy recovers no matter what. And it's a reflection of the sort of the capture of a certain financial elite in both parties. I don't want to say that both parties are the same, but there is a kind of what's good for business is the most important thing aspect to American lawmaking that I think has kept people from looking at the big picture.

It's very easy from the outside to be saying, here's what should be in the next package. Here's how far you could have gotten. And of course, a package that emerges from a Democratic House, Republican Senate and Republican administration is not going to be what we want it to be, even in the midst of this crisis. But there was this clear sense that Republicans wouldn't go for automatic triggers, wouldn't do it for the very simple reason that they want to hold any future Democratic presidents hostage the same way they did Barack Obama. Right. I mean, look,

when you talk about the price tag on the stimulus in 2008, it was less than a trillion dollars. And we've now seen the Republicans shove trillions with an S at the economy because a Republican is in office and they know that they need to shovel money at the economy to keep it going so Trump can get reelected. Now, I don't want to pretend like ideology has nothing to do with the way that that money has been spent or the way that those bills have been shaped because it clearly does. But what was completely absent that was present in 2008 was this sort of complete unwillingness to negotiate with the Democrats to get any legislation passed because they saw it in their interest to hold up or to

make the stimulus as small as possible. And they did not do that here with the Trump administration because that wasn't the politics of the situation for them. As obviously this pandemic has gone on, as this economic crisis has unfolded, we've seen protests take hold across the country. You know, this show comes out the day after Juneteenth. What do you see as the role that the pandemic and the economic immiseration people are going through? What role do you think that has played in adding fuel to these protests in some way? I think there are a lot of factors that have contributed to the protests and the size of the protests and how diverse and how widespread they've been. I think the major factor is the simple accumulation of video evidence

of racial discrimination and policing since the popularization of cell phone cameras. These cell phone camera videos have shown to white America how real the Black American experience with racial discrimination and policing is. I think before that, it was very hard for much of white America to understand what this relationship looked like and how deadly and lethal and violent it could be. And I think the accumulation of names over the past 10, 15 years has really caused a big shift in public opinion, also because of Black Lives Matter, because of the advocacy of protests and activists. I think the pandemic, the fact that everybody has been home for so long, obviously, there's a lot of energy that's been pent up. But I also think that when you're talking

about the economic crisis and the pandemic, both of those things have disproportionately affected Black and Hispanic communities in the United States, which are also communities that are disproportionately affected by racial discrimination and policing. And that racial discrimination and policing, most strikingly in the Floyd case and in the Breonna Taylor case and in other cases, it continued even though everybody was locked up at home, right? So there is this sense that these communities are suffering because of the economy. They're more likely to be unemployed and they're more likely to be essential workers who are at risk. They're more likely to be disproportionately affected by the disease. And in the midst of this, they are also still being killed and abused by police officers, by armed agents of the state who are, in principle, sworn to protect them. So I think all of those things are contributing to what we're seeing right now. As the protests have been unfolding, the protests have drawn this connection. I do think in the wider culture, there's been this connection, a recognition that this is in some

ways tied to how we think about our history. Police brutality, excessive force, the disproportionate effect that has on black people has led to statues coming down. It's also led to this larger recognition of Juneteenth, right? A holiday that I think for a lot of white people, myself included, was something we may be heard of, but didn't know too much about, didn't mark, didn't think of it as something as a national holiday. And yet this year, this moment, we see media companies, Crooked Media included, recognizing Juneteenth. We see a conversation about why this holiday has not been seen as a national holiday or a holiday for white people, too. It's been primarily something talked about or even known about by black people. What do you think has

allowed that shift to happen? I think that Juneteenth or the recognition of Juneteenth, and just to give your listeners a little background on Juneteenth, Juneteenth or the recognition of Juneteenth. So just to give your listeners a little background on Juneteenth. Juneteenth is the traditional black American celebration of emancipation. The holiday begins in 1865. In the midst of the Civil War, obviously, everybody knows about the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, which freed the slaves in the Confederate territories. But in part, as a result of that, you have all these enslaved people who are escaping to Union lines. They're trying to join the Union army. They're deserting their plantations or their master's plantations. And so a lot of slave owners try to move their entire operations to Texas and they take their enslaved people with them. And as a

result, you have this large influx of slave owners and populations of enslaved people who are not freed by the Emancipation Proclamation. They are instead freed in 1865 by the Union Army at the end of the war. So there's this sort of delayed recognition of a freedom that was given to them years before. And in that sense, Juneteenth is kind of a poignant holiday in that there is a distance between the symbolism and the actual substance of freedom. The timing of the protests obviously has something to do with this widespread recognition. But I also think, I don't want to, I mean, I think it is important. It is an important symbolic thing for America to recognize emancipation as a prominent historical event. We're celebrating in all the knowledge,

the bittersweet knowledge of how incomplete that emancipation was at the time and for a century afterwards. But it is also something that corporations can do and that private firms can do without costing them much. I want to make a very key distinction between progressive messaging by corporations and how corporations actually wield their political power, because I think too often much. I want to make a very key distinction between progressive messaging by corporations and how corporations actually wield their political power, because I think too often people look at, oh, well, this corporation says Black Lives Matter. That must mean they're progressive. No, I mean, firms do what is in their profit interest to do, and often that is not in the interest of racial justice. I think it's important to distinguish between the symbolic

celebration and recognition of Juneteenth, which is important. I don't's important to distinguish between the symbolic celebration and recognition of Juneteenth, which is important. I don't want to say minimize it, but it's also not the same thing as these entities wielding their power on behalf of the cause of racial justice. Last question, you know, as these protests have unfolded over the past few weeks, what has been most surprising to you? What has been the most unexpected thing you've seen unfold? It is surprising to see how diverse the protesters are. It is surprising to see how determined so many white Americans are to show their solidarity with black people who have been subject to discrimination and violence from the police. I mean, when you look at the public

opinion shift as a result of what Black Lives Matter has done over the past few years, you look at 2014 and the riots and protests in Baltimore and Ferguson, and you look at public opinion about the reality of police misconduct then, where it was under 50%, and now where it's at about 70%. That is a tremendous difference. And that shift in public opinion is reflected in the diversity of protesters, and I think it's something that you have to say could not have happened without the activism of Black Lives Matter.

I don't know what the political impact of that shift will be, but I think it's tremendously significant. Adam Serwer, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for taking the time and really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. When we come back, we're going to quiz some Adopt-A-State volunteers.

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. As you know, we are less than five months away from the most important election of our lifetimes. And Cricket has been calling on you to help us flip states blue with our Adopt-A-State program. We've been hosting organizer trainings every Thursday. And this week, I stopped by to quiz these organizers to see just how prepared they are. I went state by state, okay, because we did state-specific organizing around mail-in ballots and canvassing and what we need to do to turn out the vote. And I put some of these organizers to the test. It was very fun. Check it out. We started with Arizona. John is here. Welcome,

John. How are you? We want to put one of your organizers to the test for Love It or Leave It. Bhavna, is there somebody that you think is the right person for this game? I believe it's me. Oh, great. I thought I obviously here's how it works, Bhavna. What I'm going to do is I'm going to put some Arizona specific organizing challenges to you. All right. And you have to tell us what you do. All right. Maybe you'll know the answer. Maybe this is what the organizing is all about, right? Figuring out the answer. Are you ready? Oh, yeah. It's a freezing 73 degrees outside. You're walking down an unnaturally wide street when a group of tumbleweeds roll in front of you. You definitely avoid them, but you encounter an unregistered eligible voter on a

street. They say they were told they're ineligible to vote by a coworker because they aren't a Cardinals fan. What do you do? Well, you definitely got to run over there. Try not to trip over those tumbleweeds and you got to get them on the pebble. You got to get them on the permanent early voters list immediately. So you just got to go over there. You got to talk to them. You do your thing and hope for the best. And maybe you can also convert them to a Cardinals fan in the process. And a bonus if you can do it. All right. Next question. All right. So you're driving through the Dutch Bros coffee with oven mitts on because your steering wheel was too hot to touch.

You strike up a conversation with the coffee guy about the Wildcats Sun Devils rivalry when he says he's pretty sure he already got a mail-in ballot, but he's not sure. What do you do? There's a number that you can call and I believe they can check in on that status. And you know, if it was me, I'd probably just make him do it right there and then because you never know if they're actually going to follow up. So you got to do it right there and then and then if not, there's no harm in just doing it a second time and making sure that you're on there. You've won the game.

You've won for all of these organizers. And I just want to say this is obviously a really tough time. I don't think any of us thought we'd be having these conversations remotely, rejiggering a massive organization amidst the most important election of our lifetimes. To add to that a pandemic, to add to that these incredibly necessary and inspiring protests, to add to that this economic pain that so many people are in, all while we're not able to do the things we would normally do to be with each other a lot of the time. Arizona, other places, depending on how much you're open, like I think it's a really hard time,

but what's been incredibly inspiring is to see how many people have signed up, how many people have decided they're going to put in the work. You are a force to be reckoned with and you really have the potential to win a Senate seat, to help win Arizona in the presidential race,

to win up and down the ballot and to make an incredible difference. And this is such a big movement and there are so many people putting in the time. That means so much to me. It means so much to everybody working on this. So I'm so grateful in a dark time, knowing that people are willing to fight.

It's how we get out of it. So thank you all so much. Bob, no, thank you for playing. Thank you all for organizing this. And I'll see you at Dutch Bros. Bye, Don. Thanks for joining us. Bye, everybody.

Now on to North Carolina. Hi. Congratulations. Hello, Mr. Levis. It's wonderful to talk to you. Hello. Thanks for having North Carolina. Hi. Congratulations. Hello, Mr. Lovitz. It's wonderful to talk to you. Hello. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here.

There's an organizer who's going to play a game today, and I'm going to put, I think his name is Peter. Is that Peter right there? Hey. Hi, Peter. Nice to meet you. So you're from North Carolina? I'm actually from Connecticut, but I've been organizing in North Carolina for a while now. So your job's that much harder because, look, you're going to call people with that Yale accent you bring to the table, that New Haven pizza, Greenwich, Connecticut, insurance company accent,

and that makes it that much harder. But that's okay. That's okay. All right, you need to know what it's like to canvas in North Carolina. So there's a lot you're going to have to do. You're going to have to really bring your A game here. I'm going to ask you some questions and you're going to tell us what you would do as a North Carolina organizer. OK, Peter, are you ready? I'm ready. How do you respond if someone says voting by mail seems complicated, not unlike achieving the perfect balance of sweet and spicy barbecue sauce?

Not an Eastern style barbecue sauce, mind you. We're talking Lexington. All right. Well, first of all, you've got to go with a vinegar-based barbecue all the way. And second of all, it's not difficult. You can now register to vote online, which is incredible. So a lot of people don't know that. This is the first time you can do that in North Carolina ever. So we're coming really far in terms of that. And you can enjoy your barbecue while you do it. Lexi, you had a really strong reaction to that barbecue question. I felt as though you were watching me delicately walk across a tightrope over a deep, deep ravine. Have I offended the North Carolina barbecue community, do you think? So one thing is that you can't ever satisfy the

North Carolina barbecue community because we are evenly split as we are purple state. We don't know who to choose. Sometimes everyone even wants to be Eastern with vinegar. I like to get personally lost in the sauce with Lexington style barbecues. So I have very strong opinions about it. I get that. Look, I don't know exactly what you mean by getting lost in the sauce. But I know that it's something that I would want to do. Come on down to Lexington. Come on out of Charlotte. Let's get you some real barbecue, huh? Nothing would make me happier. There is nothing I love more than going to swing states and eating

until I can no longer move. Swing states do food better, all right? They just do. That's right. Thank you for playing. Thank you all for what you're doing. It's such an incredible thing to see so many people dedicated to this incredible fight. It gives me so much hope. I hope it does the same for you. And, you know, we have a lot of work to do, so I'm going to leave it to the experts. But it was so nice to meet you, Peter, Lexi, everybody in North Carolina. Thank you. Thank you so much, John. Take care. Thank you so much for being here. Here's Wisconsin. Hello. Thank you so much for joining us, John. Take care. Thank you so much for being here. Here's Wisconsin. Hello. Thank you so much for joining us, John. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so honored

to be here. I may come from the East Coast. All right. I may be a product of New York and Los Angeles. OK, but constitutionally, emotionally, I like to eat. I just want to come in and kind of put Wisconsin to the test. I believe that we have an organizer who I'm going to quiz here. Is that right? I believe that's me. My name's Joe. Oh, hi, Joe. What brings you to Wisconsin? Are you from Wisconsin? I am actually a fellow Jew from New York who came to Wisconsin. I think that's fine, all right? Because Wisconsin's a welcoming place, all right?

And even though we may bring a lactose intolerant spirit to Culver's, we can overcome it with lactaid and a kind of joy, a Midwestern joy. And so we're gonna put you to the test, all right? And make sure that you're ready to organize in Wisconsin, all right? And we have many people watching this stream who are gonna be paying very close attention to make sure that you're ready to organize in Wisconsin. All right. And we have many people watching this stream who are going to be paying very close attention to make sure that you're ready to convince Wisconsin voters. OK, let's do it. All right. Here we go. Is someone allowed to

vote even if they wear their Packers cheese hat year round like it's a regular hat? Yes. And encouraged to do so. I think a no would have been very difficult for you to overcome for the remainder of the quiz. So I think you're doing great. I think you should feel very happy about that answer. All right, next question. You've just finished eating a plate of the squeakiest cheese curds when you amble over to the nearest public bubbler. A woman in a cheese head gets in line behind you. When you've both gotten some water, you bond over the Bon Iver song playing from the outdoor PA system, and she mentions that she saw him at a Bernie rally earlier this year.

She's interested in voting but doesn't know what documents she'll need to get registered. What do you do? Now, in order to register to vote, well, you can register to vote on Election Day here in Wisconsin, but in order to register to vote online, you'll need a proof of residence, like a updated address on the DMV website, or it could be another type of proof of residence. But you can find all of that information on myvote.wi.gov. So everybody who's thinking about this should go to myvote.wi.gov to make sure you have all the right info. Joe, you've won the game. Great job. Thank you to everybody working so hard to organize and win in

Wisconsin. It's an incredible thing you're doing. I'm so grateful. And I hope that even in this dark time for our country, you have a chance to be with this incredible group of inspiring people trying to do what's right and fix what's broken. So thank you all so much. And that's it. All right. I'll see you at Culver's next time that's possible. Thank you so much, John. Now let's go to Michigan, though I screwed up and I thought I was in Florida, which created an incredibly awkward situation. Let's get into it. So, OK, so first of all, thank you all so much for doing this. I just want to also flag for you. There's a chance my parents are in this stream. There's just a chance. I don't know for sure because they do live in Florida. I'm so grateful to everybody who's participating today. But look, it's not easy.

Organizing is tough. Today, I want to put one organizer to the test. I believe someone has been chosen to face a gauntlet of Florida-based organizing questions. Who is the person who is going to take this quiz? So love it. I hate to break this to you, but you're on Michigan right now. What? I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. You know what? Honestly, I'm glad. Frankly, I'm glad because I didn't mean anything I said about Florida. It's okay. It's okay. Listen, it's fine. It's fine. Well, that means my parents aren't here, so I can say whatever the fuck I want. But who's going to face the Michigan gauntlet?

Simeon or Josie, step in here. I would like both of you to face the gauntlet. Perfect. Josie, Simeon, thank you so much. Michigan, of course. You guys aren't from Florida. You're way too cool. Don't tell Florida I said that.

Don't. I don't want this to get back to Florida. All right. Here are the questions. You guys can take these questions together. You're leaving a Big B coffee with a dark roast when you run into Ted Nugent's son Rocco on the street. I am so sorry for these references. He says he's sick, so you recommend he drink some Vernors and get himself a Coney Dog. But he also said he's been feeling the blue wave but needs to update his voting information and party preference. What do you do? Send him right over to the Secretary of State's website. Make sure he can also vote from home this year. All right, all right, all right.

You've got it. I don't know. You have to know the answers. You're the organizers. All right, next question. You're drinking a pop as you watch the sunset over Lake Michigan. You hear a couple clapping at the sunset. They see their juggalos.

I'm so sorry. And strike up a conversation about your rock and rye Faygo. They're sad that the gathering of the juggalos was canceled this year, but think it's great that the ICP care about the safety of the juggalo family. They mention their interest in voting Democrat, but aren't interested in going into a government building to do so because the drive is too many minutes away. What do you do? Yeah, well, glad you asked that question. You know, vote by mail. Like, that's what we're

talking about. You know, it's the most efficient and safest way to vote if they don't want to go and vote in person. You know, we're in the midst of a pandemic, right? So. Simeon, you got it right. You both have won the game. Thank you so much for playing. And I'll see you out there, all right? Next time we can go to Michigan. Then we actually went to Florida. Who is the person who is going to take this quiz today? Yes, she is quite excited.

It is Pamela. Pamela. Hi. Hi. Pamela, nice to meet you. All right, here it is. First question. You're scarfing down a couple of hush puppies in Senflo

when you recognize Tevin, one of the Gatorland Wranglers, exiting the local gun shop. Tevin just turned 18. You remember because he told you about his early acceptance to UF. He also told you he's unregistered to vote, but thinks Biden is kind of wavy.

What do you do? I would explain to him the stakes involved in this election, and then I would push him to register to vote and bother him until he does. Correct. I think that's correct. All right. Next question. A voter doesn't trust vote by mail because election season is also hurricane season, which they believe is a conservative plot to decrease voter turnout and soak ballots in rain so that they're unreadable. How do you assuage their fears? Wow. I would tell them that they can track their vote by mail ballots online on their county

elections offices. They're very concerned. Or they can drop it off at their county elections office before the hurricane hits. And if the hurricane somehow falls, you know, doesn't fall while early voting is going on, then they can go vote at an early voting station. You are so, that is correct. I'm sure, right? You all know, you're the organizer. Pamela, you've won the game. Yay. I wasn't prepared, so yay. Pamela, you've won the game. Yay. I wasn't prepared, so yay. And I love the pride energy you're bringing to this organizing.

All right. Thanks to Organizing Together. Thanks to Vote Save America. Thanks to everybody for being part of this session. And, you know, I'll see you the next time I'm visiting the Lovetts. Thanks. Then we went to Pennsylvania, the state I adopted and told people about. You get it. Wow. We now have John Lovett with us, who is here to talk about Pennsylvania,

maybe sort of reclaim some dignity after the 2018 issue. Excuse me. Excuse me. Listen, it wasn't my job. No one can take your dignity without your consent. I was encouraging the state of Pennsylvania. Now, for those of you, I don't know if you're familiar, but I did issue a challenge to the state of Pennsylvania because the state of Pennsylvania did let us down in 2016, but you stepped it up in 2018, all right? You answered the call, but now is the real, this is it. This is the main event, okay? I obviously have taken some heat, all right, for my comments about Pennsylvania, all right, disappointing those of us who knew and understood

we needed to win. But that said, I hope it is appreciated, Megan, that I have adopted this state. I'm all gritty right beneath the surface. I'm gritty wearing a human suit, all right? That's how committed. And gritty is iconic, as we all know. I think that he is also committed to turning Pennsylvania blue this year. Absolutely. Absolutely. We've got

Ife here tonight. She's one of our organizers in Chester County in Delaware County, which is in southeastern Pennsylvania, the collar counties, if you will. Hi, Ife. Because it's so important that we win in Pennsylvania, we really do want to put you to the test on behalf of your fellow organizers to make sure you're ready for some of the local issues that may come up as you try to get everybody ready to make sure they can vote, whether it's in person, vote by mail, or what have you. All right, Ife, are you ready? I'm ready. First question. You're in Lancaster. It's funnel cake season, but no street fairs are open.

So you settle for takeout whoopie pie from the green dragon you get stuck behind a crowd of antiquers while walking to pick it up and you overhear one of the women say she's not sure if she got her mail-in ballot yet but that's a whole nother issue how do you interject I say hey lady you're not sure if you got your mail-in ballot yet uh call this number and you can find out what the status of it is. You can also check online and they email that to you right after your vacation. My next question, follow up. When is it not funnel cake season?

Um, it's year round, so it's never not funnel season. Ife, you've won the game. Someone suggested, by the way, heart to heart over a butter churn or find them at a roadside farm stand. These are also good options. These are also good options. And don't require both you and they to learn Morse code. Right.

Something to think about. Well, you've won. Thank you so much for participating. Thank you to everybody. And again, I adopted Pennsylvania. I consider myself one of you now. All right. Not something I said to Florida.

Not something I said to Michigan. All right. Not something I said to Wisconsin or North Carolina, now. All right. Not something I said to Florida, not something I said to Michigan. All right. Not something I said to Wisconsin and North Carolina, Arizona. All right. So thank you all so much. Thank you for being part of this effort. And let's get to work. Let's win this thing. Thanks to all the organizers in our six battleground states. Thanks to everybody who played the game. If you want to adopt a state, you can go to votesaveamerica.com slash adopt. I'm not telling you where to put your focus. I'm just saying we're having a great time in Pennsylvania. All right?

And that's just something to think about. When we come back, we'll end on a high note. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. Because we all need it this week, here it is, this week's High Notes submitted by you, the listener. Hey, love it. My name is Caleb, and I'm a college student and a poll worker in a rural county in Arkansas.

Recently, the clerk's office in my county announced that after nationwide protests, and even some in little old Craighead County, Arkansas, voter registrations are up nearly 300% from what they normally would be at this point in an election year. I can't help but hope that people are starting to pay attention to politics and the government and the things happening every day around them. And maybe, just maybe, we can make this deep red state a little more blue. Thanks, Lovett.

Hi, Lovett. This is Brooke from Milwaukee. My high note this week is that my husband and I made a homemade rant wheel. We had four friends over to sit around the fire pit, spaced safely apart, of course. We all got to rant, and it was the catharsis we all needed.

Hi, Lovett. This is Anita. I'm calling from St. Paul, Minnesota, and my high note this week is that I sent the link for Vote Save America Adopt-A-State to my 79-year-old mother who lives in a senior living facility in Iowa, and she signed up and adopted Pennsylvania. I'm so excited, and I'm going to send it to more people. Thank you for all you do, and your show is always a high note every week. Hi, Love It. This is Jessica in San Diego. I'm a new mom and being trapped inside alone with my baby is really hard. And sometimes it feels like time is standing still. But the

other day I noticed that her first tooth had come in at some point quietly and without any tears. It's a really small thing, but it was a beautiful reminder that time is still moving and she's always growing. The continued work of protesters and activists and healthcare and other essential workers right now give me hope that she'll grow up in an era defined not by bigotry and hatred, but by progress and unity and love. Thanks. Thank you to everybody who submitted those high notes. If you want to leave us a message about something that gave you hope, you can call us at 424-341-4193. It is 136 days until the election. Sign up for Vote Save America right now to defeat Trump, keep the House, and win back the Senate.

Thank you to Nicole Byer, Adam Serwer, and Phil Picardi. Thank you to our grocery workers, truck drivers, delivery people. Thank you to the flight attendants and pilots who are flying right now. Thank you to our doctors and nurses. Thank you to our whole staff working to keep this show going out and Crooked going strong. Have a great weekend. Love It or Leave It is a product of Crooked Media.

It is written and produced by me, John Lovett, Elisa Gutierrez, Lee Eisenberg, and our head writer, former Mike Bloomberg speechwriter, Travis Helwig. Jocelyn Kaufman, Alicia Carroll, and Peter Miller are the writers. Bill Lance is our audio editor, and Stephen Colon is our sound engineer.

Sydney Rapp is our assistant producer, and August Dichter is our intern. Our theme song is written and performed by Sure Sure. Thanks to our designers, Jesse McLean and Jamie Skeel, for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast, and to our digital producers, Nar Melkonian and Yale Freed, for filming and editing video each week so you can.