Lovett or Leave It - Hot Inslee Summer

Episode Date: August 3, 2019

Governor Jay Inslee stops by to discuss climate change, his disagreement with Joe Biden and Andrew Yang, whether he knows what it means to be called a "snack," and a shocking revelation regarding Harry Potter. Then Kara Swisher, Ramy Youssef, and Kara Brown join to discuss two nights of Democratic debates, the Equifax breach, an unholy alliance between Trump and Twitter, and the permanence of Brad Pitt's abs over literally decades. What a week.

Good evening, Los Angeles. Look at this, Packed house. Very exciting. Love it or leave it. We'll be at Radio City Music Hall in New York City on September 13th. It is going to be great.

We have secured some pretty amazing guests we cannot announce yet. Tickets are genuinely going fast. That's exciting. Listen, you know, it's a big place. You think, oh, I hope they come. And they are. Love It or Leave It in San Francisco at the Castro is sold out.

No, that's not what we're going for. But there are still tickets to PSA in San Jose. You can get tickets to both Radio City and San Jose at crooked.com slash events. End of housekeeping. All right. Let's get into it. What a week. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo

signed a bill to decriminalize the use of marijuana and expunge the records of many convicted on related charges. This is very good news. It is also part of his plan to get New Yorkers to be more chill about not fixing the subways. I'm so proud of you for coming along with me on that joke. to be more chill about not fixing the subways. I'm so proud of you for coming along with me on that joke. I was so sure Los Angeles would give me nothing.

Because if New York was on fire, you wouldn't pour your almond milk on it to put it out. Trump unleashed a racist attack, this time on Elijah Cummings in the entire city of Baltimore. By this point, you have heard a week's worth of commentary on this subject. I think we're all in the same place on it. I will make one larger point. Also this week, he said that American wine tastes better than French wine.

But of course, he's never tasted wine in his whole life. And then you think, well, he's never really done anything. He's paid for sex, but he's never had a romance. He's, what? Figure out what that emotion you felt was and get it out of your body. what that emotion you felt was and get it out of your body. Lots of sycophants,

never had a real friend. He doesn't know Baltimore. He doesn't know New York. Going from your apartment to Jeffrey Epstein's apartment doesn't give you a flavor of the city. Hotel to hotel never broadened his horizons.

He's just evil grown-up bubbar. He doesn't know New York City. He lives in Midtown. That's where oligarchs go to hide their money and carriage horses go to die. What are you oohing? The reality of the strange way New York treats horses? It was announced that a female hacker gained access to 100 million Capital One credit card applications and accounts, which is very

exciting as a breakthrough for women in STEM. Now we can finally say stealing personal information and private data because of the weaknesses in our system based on the fact that it favors corporations over people is wrong no matter who he or she is. And I, for one, am sick of the fact

that in the United States of America in 2019, women still earned 80 cents on the dollar for every dollar a man makes stealing people's identities. And finally, biggest story of the week, two Democratic debates, five hours of discussion, 20 candidates, many of whom prepared. Booker and Warren shined, Biden and Harris fought, and when Jay Inslee took the stage it wasn't just the planet getting warmer. To unpack these very important issues please welcome, for real, the governor of Washington running for president on a climate change platform. Please welcome Governor Jay Inslee. Governor. How you doing?

I'm feeling warm tonight. I don't know about you, John. All right, you're having a moment. It's radiating off of you. We'll get to it. Thank you for being here. I want to start with the debate, and I want to get to your role in it. But I think, stepping back, a lot of Democrats left watching last night's debate in particular with a kind of sad feeling. It seemed to be pretty, on the whole, like sour and acrimonious. And I'm wondering how you felt at the end of the debate. I'm wondering if you guys actually agree with me. Did you guys feel that way after the debate? So how did you feel after the debate?

It's like marriage. It's great, but it has its moments. How's that? Okay, okay, okay. But let me address this. Look, I am not troubled by this. We're going to pick a nominee, and I can guarantee you this.

We will be a united party when we have a nominee, and we will beat Donald Trump. We will be a united party when we have a nominee, and we will beat Donald Trump. And I believe this because if for no other reason we have the most unifying power in the universe next to the nearest black hole, and that's Donald Trump. We understand his threat to democracy. We're going to be united. We are going to pick a nominee, and I'm looking forward to that. I got a pretty good nomination for that as well. I got a joke. You ready? What's the difference between Donald Trump and a black hole?

One has a large ego, and one is just a titanic thing that sucks every living thing into a dark place. And that's Donald Trump. Yeah, that was it. All right. And that's Donald Trump. Yeah, that was it. All right. Now, one of the more substantive exchanges was one you had with Vice President Joe Biden about phasing out of fossil fuels. Biden, along with a number of candidates,

and correct me if I'm wrong, they've signed on to net zero carbon emissions by 2050. You've pitched for a faster time frame, net zero on electricity by 2035. And as governor, you signed a plan to get Washington to carbon free electricity by 2045. But net zero by 2050 is still a Herculean task, a radical task for all of us to do. It's incredibly difficult. That's why the IPCC has said it that way. Do you believe that if the Democratic nominee embraces a 2050 goal in line

with what international organizations have said, that they'll be going far enough? Well, yes, but most importantly, we have to have interim targets that we meet, because it's like you can't say, I'm just going to meet my diet targets beginning in January 2050. You've got to do things earlier to get to that. That resonated with me deeply. So the important thing is, and this is, look, we need a national mobilization to do this. I do believe

we've kidded ourselves a little bit that just a little nip and tuck will do this. We have to decarbonize the entire United States and world economy. That requires a national mobilization. But there's two things to think about this. The timelines for our survival are not set by politicians. They are set by the laws of physics. They are set by the laws of thermodynamics. And you cannot amend or repeal the third law of thermodynamics or the laws of gravity. So these deadlines that we have to comply

with are given to us by science and we have to meet them. And when I was arguing with the vice president about this, I was just basically saying, look, you're too late and it's too dangerous to wait too long. And you're not arguing with me. You're not arguing with me. You're arguing with the scientific community. The second thing I would say is we are capable of national mobilization. We have done this. One small example. So we need to have start selling clean cars 10 years from now. I mean, that's just the only option for our survival. And people have said we can't do this. Well, think of one little factoid. In 1940, the entire United States economy produced 70 Jeeps, 7-0.

Four years later, we had produced 645,000 Jeeps. And the reason we were capable of that is we recognized an existential threat, and we united as a country, and we had leadership to say, well, let's go do it. And that's exactly what we need to do now, and we can do it if we get a president who makes this a top priority. So I think that's what we need to do. And I'm going to do it if I'm president of the United States. So I want to dig into this a little bit, because I think there's a lot of value to having an climate discussion. But one of the reasons it's so important in the primary is we're not just seeing who has plans, but who's committed to those plans. You know, Vice President Biden has committed to a 2050 target, as have several other Democrats.

The actual argument you're having on stage is not about that, but rather about honesty around what you need to do to get there. Because if Biden is committing to net zero by 2050, the only way to get there is to do the things you're talking about. So in some sense, hasn't he committed to it without being willing to describe it for political purposes or other purposes? I don't understand. Listen, I've been working on this for 25 years. I ran for Congress in 1992 in part on fighting carbon pollution. So I've been at this a long time. I co-authored a book about it 12 years ago.

I helped found the U.S. Climate Alliance with Jerry Brown. We now have 24 states who are part of this effort. And we did that because we wanted to show the rest of the world there's still intelligent life in the United States. And it's been successful. So I've been at this a long time. And what I've realized is something really important. It's just not going to solve the problem to send a love letter to 2050. You can't sign a Hallmark card and say, I'll be back in 2050 and solve this problem. What you do today and in the next decade, frankly, and what you commit to is frankly more important what you

promised to do, you know, in the mid-century. And so we need to get down to it to get this job done. We are seeing an enormous transition. We're seeing 50,000 cars in Washington state. We're seeing the cost of solar coming down 80 percent. But it is not happening fast enough without community requirements that we get this job done. It will not get done unless you have a president who says it is the top priority of the United States. If this is not job one, it will not get done. And I'm committed to this, and I'm unique in this, as saying it has to be the top priority of the United States. That's what it takes to get this job done. Climate change is your signature issue. You've led on it in Washington, and yet, even in your home state, there have been challenges in terms of getting this message

through to the public. You've had ballot measures and attempts in the legislature to price carbon. They haven't been successful on multiple occasions. You know, last night at the debate, Andrew Yang basically said around climate change, we have to accept the fact that we're failing and move to higher ground. How many people can you put on the top of Mount Everest? This is not a solution. And I was shocked when I heard this.

Look, I understand the tech community has done tremendous things for our society. And Mr. Yang comes from that part of our world. But we cannot live virtually based on silicon digital information. We've got to have food to eat. We've got to have air to breathe. And we've got to have water to drink. And there is no running from this.

You can't run from Lyme disease. You can't run from the forest fires. You can't run from the Everglades You can't run from the forest fires. You can't run from the Everglades being on fire. Andrew Yang is wrong. He is an interesting person, but this is a serious issue, okay? Listen,

a lot of us can do worse than wrong and interesting. There are a lot of people out there who are quite wrong and very boring. But the reason I was pointing to that is that pessimism is something you hear from a lot of people. And the fact that even in Washington, you've had trouble getting this across to the public. Does that worry you about our collective ability to address a challenge as complex and diffuse as climate change? No, and I'll tell you why. Worry is a luxury. We don't have enough time or energy to worry. We just got to get down to getting this job done. I'll tell you what I mean by that. So last year, there

was a ballot measure that would have created a carbon tax in the state of Washington. The fossil fuel industry put $32 million in it and do a lot of false ads to obfuscate the situation. As a result, it did not pass. But we did not have the luxury of just crying in our beer about that. The next morning, we got back in our saddle, and I introduced five bills in the state legislature that would accomplish the same degree of carbon pollution reduction. And we passed four of those. So basically, it is now the law of the state of Washington that has 100% clean electricity, the best energy efficiency laws in the United

States, the best incentive program for electric vehicles, and the best building codes in the United States, together with a ban on super pollutants. And so we made major progress. What I learned from that is the most powerful renewable fuel in America is the power of perseverance. You told Dan that on Pod Save America. But it's still a good answer. Before we get to Queen for a Day, there is something important we do need to discuss. One headline after last night read, and I quote, it's going to be hard to say this while you're there,

horniness for Jay Inslee is a renewable resource. I'm not going to look at him for the rest of the interview. We have a couple examples on screen. I'm going to read them. First one is, Jay Inslee is an ancient forbidden snack. That one I have to say is, I would say it's a mixed bag. She got it half right. It was just half right. forbidden snack. That one I have to say is, I would say it's a mixed bag.

She got it half right. It was just half right. Yeah, and then the next one is, did not expect to come out of tonight's debate feeling this way, but Jay Inslee can get it. Care to comment? I will say there is one unequivocal, unimpeachable,

entirely credible source on this issue who will totally dispel those nasty rumors, probably spread by Russian bots. And that is my wife, Trudy Inslee, of 46 years. She totally disagrees with this assessment, I will tell you. I don't know. I met Trudy upstairs, and I believe the way she looked at you said, there's a snack. Now, I've never said that before, but again, I'm quoting the First Lady of Washington, Trudy Inslee. All right. Now, let's play a game. For decades, Grover Norquist, or Wario after he

cleaned up his act and went to Harvard Business School, has asked Republican candidates for office to sign his pledge, committing them to his core values. No new taxes, no elimination of tax deductions, no talking about Eric Trump's weird mouth. And since I consider myself the Grover Norquist of people who are still playing Diablo III seven years after its release,

I figured I'd start my own pledge. During this primary, we're pinning presidential candidates down on the issues that matter to me most. In a segment we call Queen for a Day, Governor Inslee has graciously agreed to be the fifth candidate to face the gauntlet. Are you ready, Governor? I'm ready. Bring it on, John.

On day one, do you pledge to eliminate daylight savings and never let the American people see dark before 5 p.m. again? I pledge if elected President of the United States, nobody will lose an hour of sleep under any circumstances Next question You said your comfort food is M&M's Was Mars wrong to phase out the tan M&M

and replace it with the blue M&M in the 1990s I'm a total fan of green M&M's under all circumstances, I will tell you that So dodging the question, the correct answer is getting rid of the tan M&M and replacing it with a blue M&M was a sign of the decadence that might lead to cultural decline we see right now.

It says it right here. That's the correct answer. Thank you very much. Follow-up. Does a person who picks out all the M&Ms in a communal bowl of trail mix deserve a trial by jury or should we send them immediately to a firing squad? I've eliminated the death penalty, otherwise I would execute that. Fair enough, fair enough.

Principled. Which do you think is a greater threat to humanity? Global climate change or live action Disney remakes where they animate the lions to have sexual chemistry but can't get them to express emotion in their faces? I would say anything that allows polar bears to express themselves

is a positive development in human civilization. Good answer. Should the audience at the Pantages Theater be less judgy when I refuse to participate in a standing ovation because I did not think the touring cast of Mamma Mia! deserved it? John, I think in the third remake of Mamma Mia! I just hope you have a starring role. That's all I can say.

Listen, we're always ready to be a gay best friend. As a native Seattleite, would you declare Frasier the official sitcom of the United States, or is Frasier deserving of an even greater honor? I think Frasier should have a Nobel Peace Prize. How about that? I'm just with it.

Honestly, they've gotten it more wrong before. One of the greatest questions No, no, no, wait a minute. This year, Nobel Peace Prize, and I can announce it right now because there's not going to be any question about it, will be Greta Thunberg, young woman from Sweden who's ignited the world against climate change.

That's going to be the Nobel Prize winner. I will say that right now. Who's sailing to America to participate in our September global climate change event. She might make more progress if she flew. One of the greatest questions facing our nation divides us to our very core. Are people who think it's wrong to recline your seat on an airplane the kind of soft, silly, decadent, posturing liberals who open the door to Trump?

I have eliminated the death penalty in the state of Washington, except for those who recline their seat. Controversial. Why do they put the button there if you're not supposed to use it? Next question. Fast and Furious presents Hobbs and Shaw. Has a run time of two hours and sixteen minutes. Should all filmmakers need federal approval

to go over two hours or just Quentin Tarantino? I don't know, but has anybody seen that happened one day in Hollywood? Is this a good movie? Should I go tonight? That's what I want to know. Okay, we're going. Thank you very much, John.

I'm going. I got to tell you, spoiler for later in the show, recommend. You can build 10,000 affordable housing units on the land of one major theme park. You have to destroy Harry Potter World, Star Wars Galaxy's Edge, or Pandora, the world of Avatar.

Which one's gotta go? I am a politician of conviction. I voted against the Iraq War. I voted for the... I voted for the assault weapon bill. I voted against the repeal of Glass-Steagall, and I think Harry Potter should be eliminated in all circumstances.

Holy shit! The man on stage here did lose a house seat for supporting gun control, so still showing the same political judgment. Final question. In 25 years, when we fail to stop climate change, what weapon will you use to fight off the roving bandits coming to steal the water in the small pioneer town we established?

Are you an ax man or a bat with nails sticking out of it kind of guy? I'm a friend of John Lovett. That's all we need in America. Elect him. His friend. President of the United States, go to jayinsley.com. Send in a buck and keep me on the debate stage for climate change. Thank you very much. What a pivot. Guys, give it up for Governor Jay Inslee.

When we come back, our panel. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. She's an opinion columnist for the New York Times, co-founder and editor-at-large of Recode, and the host of Recode's Decode and Pivot podcast. Please welcome Kara Swisher. Thank you.

Thank you for being here. Kara. Cara. Yes. Before we bring up the rest of our panel, I did want to talk to you a minute about what's been happening this week. It feels like every week there's a new massive data breach being exposed. Yes, Capital One was this week. Capital One this week, thank you.

The Equifax settlement was just announced. What do you make of the Equifax settlement, and do you think it's a good sign when they take away the $125 reimbursement because too many people want it? You know, these are terrible hacks that are happening, but I think the worst part is the way the government has completely abrogated its

responsibility to citizens by doing anything. So you see it with Equifax, you see it with this Capital One thing that's happening, and most of all, you saw it with the Facebook settlement with the FTC. 2011, they agreed to a consent decree for screwing up. And then today, they pay a $5 billion fee, which seems like a lot. But to Facebook, it's a parking ticket.

And then they have no strictures on doing anything. And so our government is completely, does not care about these persistent violations of privacy. And they also don't care about the consistent ones that happen every day by all these companies sucking in your information. So you asked this question in a piece you wrote in The Times. How do we protect consumers from endless data incursions and hacking by bad actors while also getting all the benefits of a fully networked society? You called it a conundrum. You know, here's the thing. We all really like this stuff. And they give us a lot of stuff. You get free email, you get free maps, you get Amazon delivery in 2.5 seconds of whatever the heck you want. But the fact of the matter is, if you really think about it, and I wrote about it this week

with antitrust, we are incredibly cheap dates to the tech companies. We get almost nothing in return for the massive amounts of data we give them, and which they monetize almost continually. And so we're like, yay, free map. Oh my God, I've got my kombucha instantly, which they love in San Francisco. But what's really happening is we're trading away things of enormous value that could be easily hacked. And they don't even have to be easily hacked, by the way. What happens, say, on Facebook with the Russians with the election, the Russians were customers of Facebook. They did not hack anything. They just used information that Facebook had given up to a third party. And so that's where we are, is that we have decided to trade the convenient for what is good. And we're getting the bad end

of the deal almost all the time. So in this campaign, we've seen Elizabeth Warren arguing for breaking up the big firms. You've talked to Ro Khanna about an internet bill of rights. What are some of the promising areas of regulation legislation that you see as a way of answering that question of being able to live in a fully networked world while also having some sense of control and privacy that we can rely on? The internet has been a great thing. And it's been, people love using it. And it was built by your taxpayer dollars, by the way. And then it was commercialized. And what happened is the government traded everything away

to these private companies who are now, the world's 10 richest people are all internet billionaires. These are people that got enormous amounts of value on your dime and on your information. And so one of the things that people don't realize when they say, oh, should it be, what's the regulation? What's the correct regulation? There is no regulation on tech companies right now. Zero. There's regulation on Wall Street. There's regulation on everything. And, you know, there may be too much regulation, but there's exactly zero regulation

on tech companies. And in fact, there's something called Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act that gives internet companies broad immunity from anything on their platforms. They can't be sued. And they've also put into stock systems in their place, for example, at Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg can't be fired by anyone. He controls the company. He controls the board. He controls the shares. and so what we have is a very nice guy running the most important communication system in history who cannot be fired, cannot be sued

and makes decisions he's entirely incapable of making but makes them anyway, or doesn't make them, sorry I'm such a fucking bummer that's why I'm so beloved in Silicon Valley into that separating volcano of data breaches and human misery

yes, it's and human misery. It's not human misery. It can be great. There's parts of it that are good. That's what I'm asking. Forget how do we

have a society where we can have both privacy and live online. Do you believe it's possible to have both of those things? Absolutely.

Just one law would be nice. There aren't any. Let me just tell you. I wrote this in the New York Times this week. When was the last

time there was a social network created? Do you know? 2011, Snapchat. Last one. That's nine years ago. When was the last time a search service was built? 2002, DuckDuckGo has 1% of the market.

When was the last time there was a big e-commerce company created? There isn't one. Walmart is 4% of the market compared to Amazon's 48%. It's all a bunch of little companies. And so there's no competition going on. And so one is allowing competition to flourish by not allowing these giant behemoths to continue to suck up all the oxygen. Two is basic regulations like a privacy bill. We don't have one. They have one in every other country. There's one coming online in California that they're trying to get watered down. And that will become the de facto legislation of the country. But there's like 12 or 13 in other states. And so we're going to have a Louisiana version, which I

don't want to see. Sorry, Louisiana, but I just don't want to see it. So we need a national privacy regulation. But I was just interviewing Roe yesterday, two days ago. There is no legislation coming on deck for any of this. You know, they can't agree on lunch in Washington, so. In New Zealand, after the murders that went on there, which should have been entirely thought about by Silicon Valley, that if they unleashed these ability to do instant videos in the world, that someone was going to do this. And in fact, which was really interesting,

because I had a meeting when they started to do Facebook Live, right? They often show reporters these products before. And we were in the room, and I looked at it, and I thought, oh, this is kind of nifty. And then I said, what's going to happen when someone bullies someone, murders someone, commits suicide, you know, animal abuse? You know, I was like reeling off my list of fantastic. And the product manager in the room said, you know, Kara, you're really a bummer. You don't understand innovation. I said, no, I understand humanity is what does the problem. And you don't have any tools in place to prevent it. So what's happening now is a group of people that never thought about consequence. And when you start to say you need to be responsible for that consequence, they always start to say things like,

well, we as a community have to decide together. We as a community are responsible for this. And I said, you got the billions. The rest of us have to clean up your toxic waste dump, is what they've been created. Sorry. And on that happy note, let's bring up the rest of our panel. You know him from HBO's Special Feelings

and then as the titular character in Hulu's new critically acclaimed show, please welcome Rami Youssef. Hey, man. Oh, what's up, man? That was super depressing. I'm sorry. I really like my AirPods.

Yay. Cool. I like Apple. Apple's okay. I feel like my AirPods. Yay. Cool. I like Apple. Apple's okay. I feel like Apple's less evil. Is that just an emotion? They are, yeah. They are a little bit, right?

Very much so. Than Google? Oh, yeah. Yeah. She was previously a senior writer at Jezebel, a writer for Grown-ish, and the co-host of Keep It. Please welcome back,

friend of the pod, Cara Brown. Why, hello, Cara. What a great name you have. I mean, we should have rehearsed a bit about the Caras. We're just here. And this guy. Yeah.

Alright. Before we get to something else, let's get into it. What a debate. All right. Knowing Jay Inslee is in the room, let's talk about the debates. Night one. You know what?

He is so hot. I actually was just asking his wife if she knew what a snack meant. I was like, are you familiar with that phrase? She wasn't, but she certainly is now. So, on night one, we saw Bernie and Warren turn back to back as

the moderates swirled around them like they popped out of the ark at the end of Raiders. Keep your eyes shut, Elizabeth. I can't do it. We have a clip of one exchange on Medicare for All. Can we roll that clip? Can you guarantee those union members that the benefits under Medicare for All

will be as good as the benefits that their union reps fought hard to negotiate? Well, two things. They will be better because Medicare for All is comprehensive. It covers all health care needs for senior citizens. It will finally include dental care, hearing aids, and eyeglasses. Second of all, second of all, I do know, and I wrote the damn bill. Cara Brown, why do you think Tim Ryan has go to such lengths to get to this stage only to just get dunked on by

Tulsi Gabbard in the first time he was up there and then a 70 something year old socialist Jew from Vermont just just dunking on him I'm gonna answer your question with a question, which is, who is Tim Ryan? I legitimately don't know who these people are. I see Kamala, I see Elizabeth, I see Bernie, I see Corey, I see a couple others, and then like eight white guys. Truly gun to my head, couldn't do it. Couldn't name them. Don't know who they are.

I do think, I think Governor Inslee's correct. It's going to sort itself out. Right now, it's just not everybody's paying attention. It'll sort itself out to four or five of them, and then we'll begin to see which one works. But by the time they get to the top, they'll seem presidential. Like, if you remember, you're young.

Go on. Younger, younger. When Bill Clinton was one of the candidates, he didn't seem great until he seemed great, right? And neither did Obama. And then he suddenly was Obama. And he was special. He was absolutely special. But you're not going to know

until it gets down to a smaller amount. I think that she's right. It's going to be Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris. Bernie. I think he'll be around. Bernie's going to hold on to his 13% and just narcissistically fuck with everybody for a while. Yeah, Elizabeth Kamala Biden.

And we'll see. Yeah. As someone who did their homework all the time, I love Elizabeth Warren. She has a plan for it. Yeah, she's good. I agree with you. But putting that aside,

we had her on stage at Code a couple years ago. And literally every man in the room, whatever it's called, seized up and went upward. What's it called when it goes upward? I don't know. You're talking about testicles? Yes, something with a testicle. I'm not familiar.

Do they retract? They retracted. The testicles retracted. Yeah. De-descended? Whatever. They did not like her. They did not like her. They did not like her.

There's something about her. How could you see that from the stage? Because you could feel it. You could feel it. You could feel people's balls going up into their bodies. You're an incredible moderator. You know why? That's why it is a sold-out conference every year.

In the feedback. She was so reasonable, and they just didn't like her. It was sort of the same Hillary Clinton reaction by men have. My brother, who's a Trumper, sadly, he goes, you know, Hillary Clinton, she's worse than Nixon. I was like, what?

Like, come on. I was like, what did some girl do to you during your period of dating that made you hate this kind of woman this much? It was interesting. And the answer to that question tends to be, told me the truth. I like her.

I like Kamala Harris. I think Kamala Harris is really something special. And she was my district attorney. I've been, like, pleasantly surprised. Pleasantly surprised, okay. Didn't go in super hot, but here we are. She was great district... I thought she was good as district attorney and general.

Let's go to night two. It was a much... A second night? Of debate. There was two. She was great district... I thought she was good as district attorney and general. Let's go to night two. It was a much... A second night? Of debate. There was two. There was two. No, it happened. I know.

This had Harris, Booker, Gillibrand, Castro, and even Jay Inslee, famously hot and nice, lining up to do to Joe Biden's candidacy what Channel 4 did to the Great British Bake Off. Fuck it up. Very specific. Very specific. Very specific. Here's a clip of one exchange. Why did you

announce in the first day a zero tolerance policy of stop and frisk and hire Rudy Giuliani's guy in 2007 when I was trying to get rid of the crack cocaine? Mr. Vice President, there's a saying in my community, you're dipping into Kool-Aid and you don't even know the flavor cocaine smell. Mr. Vice President, there's a saying in my community, you're dipping into Kool-Aid and you don't even know the flavor.

That was good. I don't know what that means. Ask it. Ask it. What does it mean, Kara Swisher? Kara Swisher. Loosely translated, you crazy old man. I don't know what you're talking about

I think that's what he was saying right? Rami is that what you think it means? yeah I mean the Kool-Aid thing it's just funny man because I feel like he has an earpiece where someone's like do the Kool-Aid line

like it wasn't like there was no reason for they just I like they're like wrestlers they always have these like catchphrases yeah and so Corey went in with the Kool

it was effective that was the first time I believed tonight. I hadn't seen that clip. Now I'm like, oh man, I could see that on a billboard. Kara? Brown? Well, Corey, I don't know what community

you're talking about. That would be my follow-up because I have never heard that shit in my entire life. He said Kool-Aid on a presidential debate. I think Cory Booker in this debate finally stood out in a way that a lot of people hoped he would

in some of the earlier debates. What did you think? I think he did well in debate. I think he is not going to be president, so I don't care that much. Like, it's hard. It's just hard. Like, I think he is not going to be president, so I don't care that much. Like, it's hard. It's just hard. Like, I think he's been doing fine,

and he's running, and for whatever reasons that are, like, important to him, but, like, he's not going to be president of the United States, and so it's hard for me at this point when there's, like, 20 goddamn people on stage to just have a strong reaction to someone who doesn't feel that viable to me. Why do you say that?

He has a, you know, we're getting late in the cycle now, but he has a strong reaction to someone who doesn't feel that viable to me. Why do you say that? We're getting late in the cycle now, but he has a strong organization in Iowa. He is a United States Senator. He has a compelling message that despite Marianne Williamson's best efforts is actually about love and healing. Though she likes to pretend she's the

only one who's ever thought of that. I like her. No. Here's the only one who's ever thought of that. I like her. No. You what? I like her. Oh, no. Here's the thing. No.

Here's the thing. Tara, no. She's going to be the candidate. No. No. Listen. Rami, shut up. Shut up.

Shut the fuck up, Rami. Shut the fuck up. No, because this is what I'm going to say. She gets it. Trump doesn't talk about policy. Neither does she. I swear to God. They are soulmates, and they will have a duel with wands.

If white people do this to us again, I swear to God, I swear to God, I am out. I like how she sounds. I don't want to be president, but I think it's interesting, because I also did an interview with Andrew Yang, who most people portray as crazy, and he's not. We talked to him on the show. Yeah, he's really fascinating, and some of his ideas around UBI are smart. There's some really interesting stuff,

and it's just the idea of, look, she's not, look, no. She should have a nice show on oxygen. Harris Swisher just scolded you like a dog. Rami. No, she's fine. I'm just saying, she doesn't offend me.

I don't mind. It shows a Democratic Party that's willing to have debates within itself instead of a lockstep Stasi version of Republicanism. And I think that's why Will Hurd had had it, who's a very good legislator, smart about tech, left

today. I think a lot of these people are like, this is not my Republican party and I don't want to be part of this. And I think it's really great to have... I addressed the House Democratic Caucus about what they need to do part of this. And I think it's really great to have... I addressed the House Democratic Caucus about what they need to do about tech regulation. Nancy Pelosi invited me, so I talked in front of this crowd in Sterling, Virginia,

at this off-site that they had. And I brought my sons with me to see it. And my son looked around this ballroom, and he goes, Mom, it's all of America in one ballroom, and they hate each other. But he liked it. He liked the debate. There was all these different congressmen all disagreeing with each other.

And I think that's a good thing. It's diversity. It's interesting, and better ideas come out of it. Yes, theoretically, I agree. I love a diversity inside the Democratic Party that runs from building on the success of Obamacare all the way to single-payer. Democratic Party that runs from building on the success of Obamacare all the way to single-payer. I am less attracted to a debate around vaccinating children all the way to, I'm kind of for it. Chill out. Listen, what would you think, say, let me just put this, a Biden-Kamala Harris ticket or an Elizabeth Warren-Pete Buttigieg ticket?

I mean, listen, here's the thing. I'm just saying, think of combinations. I mean, listen. Here's the thing. I'm just saying. Think of combinations. I think in combinations. Here's the thing. No matter who the Democrat is, I'm going to vote for them. So I don't. It's like, fight whoever.

I'm going to vote for the Democrat because I'm not a crazy person. All right. We've got to move on to a game. When we come back, we're going to play a game. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. Earlier this week, Trump tweeted a racist attack on the city of Baltimore

and Representative Elijah Cummings, calling Baltimore a disgusting rat and rodent infested mess and saying there's no human being who would want to live there. Obviously, we talked about this all week, but a part of the conversation was left out. The fact that Donald Trump's tweets were inspired by this. So what did you find was going on in Cummings district? Yeah, so, you know, there is a crisis at the border, but there's also a crisis in Baltimore. There's abandoned row homes filled with trash, homeless attics,

empty needles that they have used, and it's really right next door. So it's attracting rodents, cockroaches, you name it. So that's what he was watching when he had his little tweet storm. Some of Trump's most vulgar and vile statements are inspired by what he sees on his racist picture box,

a.k.a. his Ku Klux Klanasonic HDTV. This also includes his attacks on the squad. To highlight the straight line from Murdoch to Trump to all of us, let's play Fox and Friends with Benefits, and the benefit is slowly being consumed by a hostile race-based winner-takes-all narrative of tradition and loss that attaches onto the already present fears and animus of aging white Americans

and stokes those fears until millions of people, including the President of the United States, are basically captured by a caustic and grossly inaccurate worldview that turns every policy question into one of identity and makes progress basically impossible. That's just the name of the game. Okay, okay. Great name. We play it a lot.

What's it called again? Here's how it works. It's called Fuck Rupert Murdoch. It's called Fuck Rupert Murdoch. Here's how it works. I'm going to show a clip from Fox News, and your job as the panel will be to suss out what Trump tweeted after watching. Are you ready?

You guys are all ready? All right, let's roll the first clip. Are you ready? You guys are all ready? All right, let's roll the first clip. And about those reports of photographs, Dr. Grant, of missiles on small boats in the Persian Gulf that, according to several U.S. officials, were put on board by Iranian paramilitary forces.

I mean, how serious is the military maneuvering and positioning by Iran? Should this be taken as a threat to the U.S. and allies in the region? Less than 10 minutes later, what did Donald Trump tweet? Iran has nukes with boats on nukes and is

going to attack us immediately. Something like that. What do you think? Live action Aladdin sucked. Kara, what do you think? I mean, I gotta go with the Latin guess. Close, Rami. He tweeted, if Iran wants to fight, that will be

the official end of Iran. Never threaten the United States again. He literally threatened an entire country, killing millions of people because he saw a clip on a TV show. And I actually should go back and say, I said Iran, but there is no chance in hell that in Donald Trump's mind when he was typing it, it wasn't Iran. Right?

I think I even gave him too much credit. Now, as for the live action Aladdin, I saw it in the theater. Full print, like an evening ticket or a matinee? Oh, it was night. And we came out of that movie realizing it was basically an unholy document

because you can't help but like it because the songs are so great. And then you're like, but this should not exist. Question two. On July 16th of this month, Fox and Fred said this. Tech investor Peter Thiel believes Google should be investigated for treason.

The Project Maven decision was a decision not to work with AI, with the U.S. military, but they're working with the communist Chinese. Oh, that bad gay. Oh. Cara Brown, let's start with you. What did he tweet minutes later? Peter Thiel is a stupid dick who bankrupted Gawker Oh you tweeted

That's what you tweeted Oh sorry I got it wrong Rami what do you think? He looks like AI I feel like he probably went on a rant about China And he might have said something like People are saying He really likes saying that people are saying

It's never him it's always like other people So I think he probably said something like, people are saying we need to get into China and fuck them up or something like that. I know exactly what he said. I followed this one. What did he say? Google may have done treasonous behavior with China. We'll investigate immediately.

But not mentioning Teal's name, I think. Close. Answer. Billionaire tech investor Peter Teal believes Google should be investigated for treason. He accuses Google of working with the Chinese government at Fox & Friends. A great and brilliant guy who knows this subject better than anyone. The Trump administration will take a look. So literally, Peter Thiel on Fox News got the Trump administration,

well, got Trump to say the Trump administration would take a look. But a lot of times it feels as though the administration treats Trump the way parents on a cross-country flight treat a child, which is, okay, okay, okay, look at this iPad. Thank God. No, I mean, Peter Thiel has been sort of a bad actor in Silicon Valley for a long time. And he's established really close ties, and now it's paying off. He runs Palantir, which we just wrote a story. They got a $92 million contract.

We FOIAed all the ICE contracts, and Palantir was on top, which is a Peter Thiel company, with $92 million a deal, a contract with just ICE. And so Palantir is competing with Google for government contracts. And that's, to me, that's the agenda going on here. Also, he doesn't want women to vote. Right. Peter Thiel. He did say that way back in college.

He sure did. Wait, what was his argument? All right, all right. I'm just kidding. You got me to make a statement like that. What was his... I also didn me to make a statement like that. You want to see what lines up with... I also didn't know that he looked like that. You know, he's a super smart guy, is the thing.

He's really... His book was fascinating. But I just wait till he sues me. That's what I feel like all the time. Just waiting. Waiting for him to do a secret lawsuit of some sort. It's a good reminder at this point to say, always admired Peter Thiel.

suit of some sort. It's a good reminder at this point to say, always admired Peter Thiel. And while I disagree with many of his views. Question three. On June 7th, Neil Cavuto said this on Fox Business. Well, here we go again.

NASA is opening a space station to more commercial activities. In other words, it's inviting you to take part in all of this as it is refocusing on the moon. But didn't we do this moon thing quite a few decades ago? I thought we would advance beyond that. And I thought either we'd target Mars or why this? Why now? What did Trump tweet one hour later?

We're going to Mars. At NASA, let's go to Saturn instead of the moon. Pretty good. I just like the idea of Trump being like, okay, here's the thing. I got this great weapon. It's huge. It's the size of a moon.

It's almost perfect. One small problem. Don't worry about it. It's a massive thing. Incredibly powerful. Can take out whole planets. It's basically perfect. One tiny little issue.

Don't worry about that. Not going to be an issue. No one's going to know about it. Just we know about it. Me and all the people that work for me that do leak, forget them. That's not going to get out. All right. I have the guy that designed it, the architect.

I'm also threatening his daughter, who you don't know about yet, but you will in 30 years. Rami, you got it. The answer was, for all the money we are spending, NASA should not be talking about going to the moon. We did that 50 years ago. They should be focused on the much bigger things we are doing, including Mars, of which the moon is a part, defense and science! Of which the moon is a part. friends. Defense and science! Exclamation point. Of which the moon is a part.

Now, it is in some sense true that as far as the plans go, you do consider the moon a stop on your way to getting to Mars. But if you think I'm going to give that motherfucker credit. When we come back, the rant wheel.

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. Now it is time for the rant wheel. You know how it works. We'll spin the wheel and wherever it lands, we'll rant about the topic. This week on the wheel we have Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, the California tax return

bill for presidential candidates, Trump and Twitter, the quote, quote, this issue is personal for me, end quote, water attacks, we have a rant from Rami, we have meatless meat, and we have the very idea of debates themselves. Let's spin the wheel.

It has landed on water attacks, something Cara Brown suggested. I did. So in New York, a group of police officers and two Republican assemblymen introduced a bill to make throwing water on a cop a fucking felony. Because people have been pouring buckets of water on cops. Now, who gives a shit, right? Like, should they be dumping water on them? Probably not. But who cares?

Who cares? Also, it's hot. Maybe they're trying to help. Who knows? They held a press conference where they sat up there and whined and want people to go to prison for one to four years for dumping water on cops.

First of all, they should be glad people are coming to them with water and not what they're coming at people with. Also, don't you have jobs to do? Don't you have thieves to catch and murders to figure out and other shit to worry about? You big whiny babies,

go solve a crime instead of fucking whining about people throwing water on you. Nobody gives a shit. Even the police commissioner of New York was like, I don't know, man. Who gives a shit. Even the police commissioner of New York was like, I don't know, man. Who gives a fuck? Let's spin it again.

It has landed on Trump and Twitter. Kara Swisher's topic. Take us away. Take us away. Well, I wrote a... The reason I was looking up, I wasn't just, like, randomly searching porn. I wrote a column called Trump and Twitter Together Forever.

It was after it was decided by a court that he couldn't throw people, block people, off of his thing. Did he throw you off? No. Okay. I don't know how aware he is of podcasts generally, but so far

we have stayed under the radar. I wanted to talk about what would happen for Trump without Twitter and what Twitter has done for Trump in terms of governing. I wrote this right before he started using it as a campaign tactic by attacking the squad. So I wrote, Twitter is now

less likely than ever to throw Mr. Trump, the most egregious breaker of its rules, its troll extraordinaire, off its platform. Still, it's worth thinking about what would happen if Mr. Trump's prime vehicle for spewing and for governing was removed from his PR toolbox. And so what I think is really interesting is

this is a government now being governed by Twitter. You saw the people from the Justice Department and the Commerce Department said, we're not going to challenge the census thing. And then Trump tweeted, maybe after Fox said something. But he tweeted, oh, no, we are going to do it. And so the lawyer for the Justice Department had to go to court. And the judge said, what is going on?

And he said, he tweeted, but we don't know what he meant. And so this is a government for twitter by twitter and done by twitter it's a super dangerous way to govern and so i think what's happened is there's this unholy marriage between twitter which allows this to continue on its platform despite it breaking every rule it has and it throws people off all the time because of this you have this situation where he's governing by it now he's's campaigning by it. He's attacking people by it. He's being allowed to use this vehicle. And if he didn't have it, there are no other options for him. He's not going to go on Gab. No one's following him to Gab. Not the media, not the people who follow him. He's not going to go to Parlay. Facebook's not

going to work for him in the same manner. Twitter has become his de facto megaphone that he can bypass everybody and without it he would have no ability to have the influence he has in a different way. It's not going to work on Fox News. It's not going to work on television anymore. Twitter is where the left and the right meet, where all the media

are, where everything is and without it he would have a much less powerful platform. You don't see Twitter doing anything about it, which is really astonishing. And Jack Dorsey always says, well, he's newsworthy, and therefore we're not going to kick him off. But he's invented something where he's become the tool of Trump versus Trump using Twitter as a tool. And what's really interesting is I interviewed Steve Huffman from Reddit recently last week. Reddit had a huge problem with enormous amounts of trolls and really terrible stuff going on.

And he recently quarantined the Donald, which is a site on Reddit that's very popular with people who love Donald Trump. And he quarantined them because there was violence, there was all kinds of activity within Reddit that was really terrible, and the moderators weren't doing anything. So they quarantined it.

When I asked him, how are they going to get out of quarantine, or do they go right to a ban? And he said, if the people on the Donald behave like the people at that rally that said, send them back, they're going to be banned. This is the first time an Internet executive actually said something that was actually cogent. And I think Twitter's got to think twice about being used in this fashion by this president. Do you think... So, basically, if Twitter treated Donald Trump like any user... Yeah, he'd be off.

He'd be off. Yeah, and what I think it is is a conflase. What happens whenever I say this, everyone says, I have a First Amendment right to speak, and I said, can I just give you... Did Marianne Williamson say that to you? No, no, it's my relatives in West Virginia.

And I always say, do you actually know what the First Amendment says? Because I know you don't, because I'm going to read it to you right now. And it's Congress shall make no law. Not Twitter shall make no law. Not Facebook shall make no law. They are not the public square. They can do anything they want, and they can do things to stop this stuff from happening and he would

not have, he would know where to go if he didn't have Twitter. Nowhere. And it would be a very different campaign, a very different situation. You saw that by the by the send them back thing. I want to ask one more question about it because I found that to be the most compelling argument for removing Trump from Twitter which honestly I am sympathetic to but have felt a bit reluctant to say I agree with because, yes, all that is true. And yet this is the president of the United States who is disseminating what he believes to the world. And to Jack's point. He has plenty of ways to disseminate what he thinks.

That's the argument. Yes. Yes. He has plenty of ways. It's just like Alex Jones. It's a similar thing. Look, everyone's like, oh, I was meeting with all these dinner executives. Whoa, Alex Jones should have a place.

Alex Jones. We don't want to decide anything. And I said, in three weeks, you're going to take him off. Just trust me. It's going to happen. You can make standards of any community, and it is not violating anyone's free speech. Alex Jones can create a website and spew all his vile bullshit all at once. I also wonder if Trump

believed he would be held to those standards he might be forced to behave differently. No he won't. Are you kidding? You shove him off and then he screams. But where does he scream? Into the abyss. If he was finally what I'm saying is if he was taken down

for a few, you know the way that they will take people off for a few hours or make people take tweets down before their account goes public again. If he was put through the ordinary ringer that malicious trolls who aren't in charge of nuclear weapons are forced to endure,

maybe it would either force him to tweet differently or would force him off the platform. Yes. He's violated it already hundreds of times. It's really quite astonishing. And listen, everyone's like, oh, he should be able to speak. I'm like, he's got the White House. That's a pretty big platform. He's got all the television media.

He can do a press conference that's not in front of a helicopter. He can actually, you know, it's just there's so many places and it's just, are you going to follow your rules or not? And I thought Steve Huffman was really smart about it. He's like, we've got rules.

When they're violated, we're going to take it down. And very few people in Silicon Valley have the guts to do that. Let's spin it again. It's landed on free space, the space we held for Rami. What is free space?

I didn't know what I wanted to talk about. I didn't. Well, I just wanted just to say one thing off. I wanted to hear you on meatless meat, but go ahead. I could do it. Just when you were talking about where Trump would go, my mind just went to him being on Snapchat and then accidentally using the dog filter with the tongue,

but not knowing how to turn it off. Just a visual to think about. You know, I think part of my hopelessness with the... Just everything feels really weird, and I think this is actually how I feel, and I know this doesn't make sense but I think people see what Trump is doing and they see the racism and they see the KKK

is back, they see that Nazis are back and everyone's kind of like oh we're going back in time, like how could this be our country's going back in time, whatever which I don't believe but it does feel like somebody went back in time and fucked something up and now Trump is

president so it's like like I don't know if we're racist or if someone just like kissed the wrong person or like you know or like the person like if Hitler's watercolor teacher had been like this is good yeah you're a shitty painter it you mean like that yeah it feels like a time machine malfunction. Yeah, yeah, no, I feel you. So I kind of feel like we need to be working on that, which is maybe why I support Marianne Williamson because I feel that she... No!

She isn't even looking at the issue. She's just kind of like, let's just go and do another era. I think she can time travel, and I really think that she knows stuff we don't know. And I think that we need to hold her hand and go into that abyss. Don't look at me like that, John. Because I think that she is what, I think I could get through this. She's, I think she's a beautiful woman.

I think that she's, I think she's that crazy aunt that you always want to hang out with, but you don't get to see her a lot. And now we can all hang out with her. But aunt that you always want to hang out with, but you don't get to see her a lot, and now we can all hang out with her. But didn't you always want to go to Hogwarts? There's something... What do you know? It feels like you know something that you are not sharing with us, because otherwise

this is not what you want broadcasts out in the world. Alright, but you know, there's another... This opinion sounds as logical as any of broadcasts out in the world. All right, but you know, there's another... This opinion sounds as logical as any of the others. There's another very good explanation for this, courtesy of Elon Musk. Yeah.

So we did an interview with him, and he started... He was talking about a range of things and going to Mars, and he wanted to go to Mars, and he wanted to die on Mars, but not on landing. He had all kinds of lines.

But one thing he said is that a lot of people in Silicon Valley believe that this is a simulation we're in. Yes. He blew every one of his fanboys' minds. It's a simulation, and we are part of a game of a future culture. Then they're playing it, and Trump is part of the game to fuck with us. Yeah. And so tomorrow is like it's going to rain meatballs, and we're going to be like, what? And then do, you know

what I mean? That's where we are. We're in a game. You're going to get in that guy's car? That person? I'm not getting in his car? Are you crazy? John, I know it sounds like we've gone off topic, but... No, no. I don't think we're off topic at all. A lot of Silicon Valley people believe this.

I will only say this. If we are in a simulation... We are. Two points I'll make. One, one reason we might be in a simulation is some future artificial intelligence is testing which humans would be supportive of artificial intelligence and which would be against artificial intelligence,

thereby determining when they unplug us who should live and who shouldn't. And so I want to once again reiterate my support for artificial intelligence, thereby determining when they unplug us who should live and who shouldn't. And so I want to once again reiterate my support for artificial intelligence and my deep and long-held belief that it will make our world a better, brighter, and stronger place. Second point. Marianne and I agree

as well. Yeah, no. Yeah, no. With Marianne, yeah, you know, she 100% believes that your mind is the scene of the crime. Next point, to bring it all the way back, if this is a simulation, and it is, in this simulation, I think that we are playing a game and the game is trying to defeat climate change that if this is a simulation to test the metal of human beings yeah to test us to set our greatest creativity and ingenuity and love and humanity in zeal against our selfishness and greed and narcissism and inability to think in the long term climate change is the perfect problem to set everything good about people

up against everything bad about people. And apparently we were doing a little bit too well on that problem because then they gave us fucking Donald Trump. You know what? I'm going to stop bitching about paper straws then,

even though they're garbage. No, no. We're not going to. Paper straws will not help us. They're only making things worse. Let's spin it again it has landed on once upon a time in hollywood and this is where I will leave us because I believe we should go out on a high note, and that high note will be Brad Pitt's

abdominal muscles. Here's the thing. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I loved it. But Brad Pitt's abdominal muscles are a simulation, but go ahead. Yes. You good? You look so real. Shut up, Cara Brown. Once Upon a simulation, but go ahead. Yes. You good? It looks so real.

Shut up, Cara Brown. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is good. It is a good film. I loved it. I loved it. I was in. It was old Hollywood and movie theaters and Margot Robbie, who is a great actress, who doesn't get recognized as one because she's so pretty,

and... But... It had Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt in a buddy comedy for a very long time, and there is a moment in that film where Brad Pitt parkours to the roof of a building

and removes his shirt. Brad Pitt is 55 years old. All right? Through the dot-com bubble, Brad Pitt had abdominal muscles. Through the bursting of that bubble, he had those muscles. Through the launching of a war of choice in Iraq, there were those rippling abdominal muscles.

Through a financial crisis, there have been those muscles. From Thelma and Louise to the film Troy, which was supposed to be his last gasp of being super hot, a movie that came out when I was in high school. Brad Pitt's

abs have been there for us. I know that this is a dark time, and I know that cities have taken a lot of shit from Republicans, that somehow it's acceptable to insult liberal bastions in this country, that rural and suburban America

is sacrosanct and untouchable, but you can shit on those coastal elites. You can call them weak and silly and soft. Brad Pitt is a 55 year old man with a fucking perfect body.

Alright? People in Los Angeles are tough and disciplined and it's time we got the respect that we deserve. Brad Pitt has maintained a visible six-pack for basically, literally, 40 fucking years.

We can defeat Trump. We can do it. And that's our show. I want to thank Governor Jay Inslee, Kara Swisher, Kara Brown, Rami Youssef, Nancy Pelosi, Jerry Nadler, Elon Omar, the improv, and all of you.

Have a great night. -♪ Love it or leave it, it's love it or leave it It's nothing but sex Love it or leave it, a product of Crooked Media. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett, Elisa Gutierrez, Lee Eisenberg, plus our head writer and aspiring Twitter celebrity, Travis Hellwick, and writers Jocelyn Kaufman, Alicia Carroll,

and Peter Miller. Bill Lance is our editor, and Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Sure Sure, thanks to our designers, Jesse McLean and Jamie Skeel for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast, and to our digital producers, Narmel Konian and Yael Freed for filming and editing videos each week so you can.