Lovett or Leave It - Lev It or Leave It

Episode Date: January 18, 2020

Impeachment heads to the Senate. Lev Parnas talks to Rachel Maddow. And Deval Patrick joins Jon on stage to face the Queen for a Day challenge. Plus Kara Swisher on Facebook and Little Women, Mitra Jouhari on Space Travel, and Damon Young on Joker's 11 Oscar nominations. First they cancel The OA. Now Mindhunter? Netflix, you season three thief!

Good evening, Los Angeles. Thank you all for coming out to this late show. Before we get started, we have some news. Love It or Leave It and Pod Save America are going back on the road in 2020. Come see us live when we're in your town. We're going to be in a bunch of cities we've never gone to before. Detroit, Birmingham, or maybe Birmingham. They'll yell at me.

What about Switzerland? How many electoral votes do they have? What about Switzerland? How many electoral votes do they have? Kansas City, Spokane, Louisville, and returning to a bunch of cities near you. Tickets are now on sale at crooked.com slash events. All right, we have a packed show. Let's get into it. What a week.

Friends, the witch hunt is over. The witch trial has begun. On Wednesday, Nancy Pelosi appointed the seven impeachment managers who will prosecute the case against President Trump in the Senate. That's Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler, Zoe Lofgren, Hakeem Jeffries, Val Demings, Jason Crow, and Sylvia Garcia. And after that, all hell broke loose. First, the house released a treasure trove of documents they had received from Lev Parnas, a Mr. Potato Head who wished on a monkey paw

to be a background actor in The Irishman. And then after that finished shooting, realized he wasn't allowed to go back to the toy chest, so he got work for Rudy Giuliani. Long way to go. Thank you for coming with me. Lev Parnas, lest we forget, was arrested on October 9th at Dulles Airport with a one-way ticket out of the country after being charged with felonies for funneling illegal donations to Republican candidates and campaigns. And then this week, Lev Parnas sat down with

Rachel Maddow to talk about his involvement in the criminal conspiracy at the heart of Trump's impeachment. And he implicated Rudy Giuliani, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, former Secretary of Energy Rick Perry, Vice President Mike Pence, and the second worst person to ever attend a Jeffrey Epstein dinner party, Donald Trump. Lev Parnas is clearly bad news, so I take no pleasure in welcoming him to the resistance. It's worth noting all this happened as the nonpartisan government watchdog, the GAO, found that the Trump administration committed a crime when it withheld the aid to Ukraine

as part of the scheme Parnas helped implement. It's a very big deal. The evidence now released by Parnas shows firsthand knowledge of these crimes by Trump because Parnas was the. It's a very big deal. The evidence now released by Parnas shows first-hand knowledge of these crimes by Trump because Parnas was the hand committing the crimes. There was even a little crime to-do list that Parnas jotted down on Ritz-Carlton Vienna Stationery, which is so on the nose.

It's another reminder that we live in a simulation and the artificial intelligence constructing our reality is depressed about our failure to solve climate change, which is the point of the game. One of the notes said, and I quote, Get Zelensky to announce that Biden case will be investigated, which confirms what we all know, Trump was focused on abusing his office to smear Joe Biden,

who is a sweet old man in no condition to deal with this. Mean. On top of that, there were WhatsApp messages from Robert Hyde, who the New York Times described as, and this is not a joke, an erratic ex-landscaper. I've said this before, but Trump is trying to commit crimes on a grand international scale with just sea-level Fargo characters. Also, what do you do to become an ex-landscaper? Parnas and Hyde, a.k.a. Kylo Ren and Stimpy, had quite a conversation over text.

Hyde wrote that he was monitoring America's ambassador to the Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, who was getting in the way of their Biden scheme. He wrote a bunch of messages about her movements, how he wanted to bribe members of her security team to relay her movements, which are terrifying in conjunction with Trump's phone call to Zelensky, which implied that the ambassador was, quote, going to go through some things, which to this day we have never learned what that meant.

Now, we don't yet know what these texts means, and Hyde has the energy of someone who was kicked out of Charlie Sheen's entourage in 2011 for being too uneven. But I'm sure Yovanovitch was rushed out of Ukraine by the State Department soon after because they were planning some sort of surprise party. Anyway, when Parnas sat down with Rachel Maddow, our generation's lesbian Walter Cronkite, who sometimes gives a little too much context, then Parnas said this. President Trump knew exactly what was going on. He was aware of all of my movements.

I wouldn't do anything without the consent of Rudy Giuliani or the president. So obviously, I think it's worth being skeptical of this story. If there's one thing we know about Trump, he doesn't care about consent. But what? What are you oohing? The hard reality of our existence? Parnas also said this about his relationship with Trump. I mean, we're not friends. I mean, when you say friends, I mean me and him didn't watch football games together.

We didn't eat hot dogs. What a wholesome little conception of friendship. When Vince Vaughn said hi to Donald Trump, and if you people want to shit a brick over that, that's your fight. Go for it. I'm not in on this one. I'm just skipping it. There was one thing I found fascinating, which is when Vaughn walked away, Trump had a smile on his face like he was a seven-year-old Jewish boy in 1950s Brooklyn who

just met Sandy Koufax. So many of our problems start right now with lonely, broken, godless, divorced, or emotionally divorced old men seeking meaning through attention, money, or importance of any sort.

And all I'm saying is Bruce Springsteen needs to go to the White House, sing a song, and tell Trump how cool it is that he wants witnesses at the trial. Parnas also had this to say about our Vice President and Ronald Reagan's tether, Mike Pence. The announcement was the key at that time because of the inauguration, that Pence would not show up, nobody would show up to his inauguration. Unless he announced an investigation into Joe Biden, no U.S. officials, particularly Vice President Mike Pence, would not come to this inauguration. It was particularly Vice President Mike Pence.

No wonder Ukraine didn't announce the investigation. I wouldn't want Mike Pence at my big day either. In part two of his interview with Maddow, Lev Parnas compared Trump to a cult leader. I would say this, if you're going to join a cult, at least join one of the fun ones with mushrooms and sex. This is a cult where you get yelled at by a malignant narcissist until you have to get interviewed by George Stephanopoulos

on your way to prison. It's just a shitty cult. Parnas said he was in DC for two years and never left the Trump Hotel and he went on to add, the toilets kept me in there. You flush once and it's all gone. Just incredible. Elsewhere you might have to flush upwards of 20 or 30 times. Parnas then went on to say that firing Marie Yovanovitch was directly connected to getting officials in Ukraine to announce a Biden investigation. Here's what he had to say next. It wasn't supposed to be corruption. The announcement has to be about Joe Biden and Hunter Biden and Burisma. He said the name Biden needs to be spoken with.

Always. and Hunter Biden and Burisma. He said the name Biden needs to be spoken was his insistence. Always. They did not want them to announce corruption investigations or anti-corruption efforts. That was not it.

It had to be about Biden. They had to say Biden. All right, we have a lot to cover tonight. But before we get to our guests, in the last few weeks, a number of candidates, including Julian Castro, Cory Booker, and Marianne Williamson, withdrew from the 2020 primary. And we wanted to highlight those we've

left behind in a segment we're calling In Memoriam. Eric Swalwell. Our first act in foreign policy, we're breaking up with Russia and making up with NATO. Time to pass the torch. Mike Gravel. up with NATO. Time to pass the torch. Mike Gravel. It's time to make some waves for change. John Hickenlooper. But how come we're not asking, we're not asking more often the women, would you be willing to put a man on the ticket? Jay Inslee. I am a politician of conviction. I voted again for the assault weapon bill. I voted against the repeal of Glass-Steagall, and I think Harry Potter should be eliminated.

Kirsten Gillibrand. The first thing that I'm going to do when I'm president is I'm going to Clorox the Oval Office. Seth Maltin. I'm in this to win. That's why I'm here. Bill de Blasio. How do you feel about Ska? I love Ska. Tim Ryan. I'm a Dave Matthews guyasio. How do you feel about Ska? I love Ska. Tim Ryan.

I'm a Dave Matthews guy. Okay, yeah, of course you are. Beto O'Rourke. We're going to treat each person with the respect and dignity they deserve as humans. Joe Sestak. Unfortunately, we cannot find any footage of Joe Sestak, Stephen Bullock. I'm the only one that actually won in a Trump state. The only one of the field of 37 that actually won a Trump state.

I'm literally the only field in the state that won in a state where Donald Trump won. Kamala Harris. You know, he reminds me of that guy in The Wizard of Oz, you know, when you pull back the curtain, it's a really small dude. Julian Castro. 20 seconds after I start speaking to try and explain to him what I'm about,

the lights go off in the whole building. I'm like, I hope this is not a metaphor for the rest of my campaign, that it's never going to get started. The lights go out. Marianne Williamson. Her goal is to make New Zealand the place where it's the best place in the world for a child to grow up. And I will tell her girlfriend you are so on. Cory Booker.

Why did Tigger and Eeyore have their heads in the toilet? They were looking for poo. I love that one. Now we're all kind of sad. When we come back, Governor Deval Patrick is here. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back!

He is the former governor of Massachusetts and a candidate for president of the United States. Please welcome Deval Patrick. Governor, thank you for being here. Good evening, everybody. I'm a little concerned about being brought up right after the memorial tape. I'm a little concerned about being brought up right after the memorial tape. Yeah, a little bit.

These are the stakes. You know, one day you're a guest, you know, and the next day you could be up there. I want to be up there with, you know, Stars and Stripes, the National Anthem playing, and all of you cheering for your next president. That's the idea. All right, so let's talk about it. All right. So due to some personal reasons, you entered the race late.

Later. Later, sure. Yeah, let's not make a normative judgment. Let's just later than some others. Later than some 40 or 50 others. By the time you announced, the field was chock-a-block with politicians, tech entrepreneurs, billionaires, two New York mayors, what made you decide that it was still important to get in the race?

Well, as you know, we were ready to go after the midterms in 2018. We had a date. We were, you know, we had a rollout plan. And my wife, Diane, was diagnosed two weeks before the launch with uterine cancer. And that's the sort of thing that brings your feet back to ground. We decided the best thing was to pay attention to that and to her. I still think that was the right decision. We celebrated 35 years of marriage last May, and she is cancer-free.

And meanwhile, the field continued to evolve. A lot of the candidates are friends of mine and yours. But frankly, we have a moment where obviously job one is to rid the country of this presidency. But I think that's, yes, absolutely critical. Because our democracy is in trouble. But I think the question right now is beyond the character of the candidates. This time it's the character of the country. Because if we don't deliver after we rid the country of this presidency, I think our democracy is still in jeopardy.

And because, you know, once I was with President Obama talking about the things I liked and didn't like about campaigning, and I told him I like everything about campaigning except two things. Asking people for money and the bragging. And he said, get over it. So in that spirit, I will say, no one else in this race has the range of life and leadership experience that I do, building

bridges to make change that lasts. And I think change that lasts is what we need right now. Are you just watching these debates and being like, these fucking morons. I could fucking crush every one of them. I could... Amy Klobuchar is the one taking on Pete.

I want to take on Pete. Mayor of South Bend, Indiana. Why does he bother you so? He doesn't. I'm doing your... This is your voice. I like Mayor Pete. He's been on this show.

I think he's great. I'm channeling you in my mind. Is that not right? But so no, you weren't on the debate stage on Tuesday, but you know, they were each out. Didn't you have to be white to be on the debate stage? I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

It wasn't. I'm sorry. That was uncalled for. I don't think it was a requirement, but it was a... An outcome. It was an outcome. So they were each asked, you know, why are you the best candidate to defeat Trump?

And I do think, you know, everybody cares about what happens the day after Trump is gone. But one reason, you know, I would argue this race hasn't settled out and left an opening for someone to enter the race now is there is a bunch of people jockeying to make the best electability argument and none of them have hold. So what is your electability case? Look, I'm the opposite of Donald Trump. You know, he grew up rich, I grew up poor. Everything he has touched, he's broken. Everything I've touched, I've tried to make better and I

think I have a lot to show for it. He's been in the private sector. I've been in the private sector, but I have actually built things that last. And, you know, as governor, we came out of recession number one in America in student achievement. Ninety-nine percent of our residents have health insurance. Ninety-nine percent. We're number one in veteran services, energy efficiency, in entrepreneurial activity, a 25-year employment high, and the highest bond rating in history. So we do

things that are ambitious in nature, but we are humbled enough to bring people in so you can get change that lasts. He does stuff that is all about the performance art, lives to divide, as far as I can tell, and very little of worth lasts,

except if we have another four years, a democracy in tatters. So I think, well, I guess the only way to say it is I'm about as opposite as you could get. And the other thing is, you know, I'm very, very slow to burn. He, you know, you can set him off like that. But, you know, you get a deal, you know, in the world of politics with folks who agree with you and those who don't. And keep your head. And listen. And be respectful. And still drive

your agenda. And I can do that and he can't. So, you know, America can decide. But I think we've got a pretty good choice. So, governor of Massachusetts, I believe the second black governor ever elected in the country. Is that right? That's right. You led the Civil Rights Division at the Department of Justice. Correct.

You also spent time in the private sector. And I want to I want to read this headline. It's a mean headline. But I do think people are going to know your response to this line of attack. This was the headline of The Daily Beast. Big oil subprime lenders. Deval Patrick's resume is a one stop shop. If industries, Democrats loathe. You know, Pete, Mayor Pete's face questions about his time at McKinsey. What do you say to Democrats who are in a fighting mood? They're responding to Bernie's message. They're responding to Elizabeth Warren's message about taking on corporations,

about structural change, and who want to know that your time in the financial sector doesn't mean you'll be too conciliatory when the time comes for the fights Democrats are hungering for. I think it's a fair question because, frankly, I'm a capitalist, but capitalism has a whole lot to answer for, a lot to answer for. We've been practicing this very short-term, get-the-next-quarter results for about 40 years now, and that same bad behavior, by the way, has crept into the way we govern ourselves.

It's very election cycle to election cycle or news cycle to news cycle and not generation to generation. I know you're dying to ask me in particular about the work I did at Bain Capital where I set up a business to invest in businesses for social and environmental impact because I wanted to demonstrate you don't have to trade financial return for social or environmental responsibility. That's been a false choice peddled by companies for a long time. So we invested in companies, for example, a company that diverted green waste from landfills where it would otherwise turn into methane and recycled it, sold it as composted soil and ground cover, or a company that delivered low-cost, high-quality dental care for poor kids,

which is a big gap in our health care system. And, you know, those companies need capital to scale, too. And I'm really proud of the fact that we made a point that this, like so much of what's peddled in our public life, was a false choice. And you know what? You better be glad somebody is making that point, because as we make our government functional and just, we need a private sector that is also functional and just. And that's been my work in the private sector just as it has been in the public. So I want to ask one more question

before we get to the just pure comedy. I know, let's get to that. We're getting to it. No, but you've talked about sort of what led to Donald Trump, and you've talked about the fact that hate played a tremendous role in making someone like Trump, making it possible for someone like Trump

to reach the White House, but that it wasn't only hate, and that there were other problems, other structural problems, other cultural problems. Do you think right now Democrats are doing enough to understand and change and to speak to the economic pain and cultural pain that led people to be so cynical as to pull the lever for someone like Trump? Look, I think I'm persuaded, as my friend John Wall says, that all the racists voted for Trump, but not all the people who voted for Trump are racist. And I think it's important to understand that and to respect that. That is not a compliment to Trump. But the truth is, you know, all these cheery economic indicators that we hear right now, they don't tell the whole story. If, you know,

unemployment is low as long as you count both or all three of the minimum wage jobs people have to survive, right? Inflation is low as long as you don't count the cost of health care or housing or education, right? the very things that enable people to stabilize themselves and move forward onto a path of economic mobility. We have a very, these were issues before Donald Trump. The first one who I believed said on a national level that conventional politics or establishment politics wasn't working for most people was Barack Obama. Candidate Trump said the same thing.

You cut right through it, he was saying the same thing. And we need to speak to that. That's why I say it is critical he go, but we cannot go back to doing what we used to do. And so I think, yes, I totally get the anger out there, but guess what? On the south side of Chicago, we've been feeling that anger for generations. Generations. The same feeling of not being seen and heard. And rather than just, I'm trying to harness my anger and see that as an opportunity to make America true. That's all. Give it up for Governor Pat.

Graciously agreed to play queen for a day. For decades, Grover Norquist, or what would happen if Boss Baby grew up, went to NYU, met a cute bohemian girl in Union Square, was heartbroken when she chose to date some crust punk with a Che Guevara shirt and then transferred to Dartmouth and joined an Ayn Rand book club, has asked Republican candidates for office to sign his pledge committing to his core values. No new taxes,

no elimination of tax deductions, no watching the new episode of Bosch before he gets home from work. And since I consider myself the Grover Norquist of people who watch The Crown, both wishing I were a prince but also wishing there were a guillotine, I figured I'd start my own pledge. During this primary, I'm pinning down the presidential candidates down on the issues

that matter to me most in a segment we call Queen for a Day. Governor Patrick has graciously agreed to be the ninth candidate to face the gauntlet. Are you ready, Governor? Ready or not. Today, states have the option to choose permanent standard time or to participate in daylight saving time. As president,

will you pledge to sign into law a revision to the Uniform Time Act of 1966 to give states a third option to remain on daylight saving time permanently? What is the right answer to get your endorsement? It's yes. I will not do it.

You won't? I know, I know. Do you just be open to it? Klobuchar invited me to the White House to talk about it. Oh, well, you... And that really worked on me. I know. You are a cheap date, you know that?

You should come to the White House and talk about anything you want. Hell yeah. That is correct. All right, softball question. Don't overthink it. Should billionaires be allowed to hunt human beings for sport? Don't they now?

No. Good, good answer, good answer. Will you enshrine in the Constitution the right of the person in the middle seat on a plane to take possession of both armrests because they deserve it? What are we doing here? Both armrests, middle seat, come on.

Look, since I spend a great deal of my time in that position right now, yes. As president, will you require car companies to create additional signals instead of just left turn and right turn? Specifically, we could use thank you, sorry, and I'm not mad at you.

I'm mad at my life because I hate my job. There's nothing for me at home, and yet all I want is to get between them faster. Well, that seems right to me. Don't forget the one that Seinfeld said is well-known in southern Florida. The permanent left turn. Oh, yeah.

Or the eventual left turn. Like boy bands, politicians running for president have to carve out their niche. Yang's got the robot war. Steyer's got looking directly into the camera. Klobuchar has cute jokes and the fact that she's terrifying. What is your it factor?

My it factor? Isn't that for other people to say? Not right now, apparently. It probably should be. It's a deeply uncomfortable question. It is. It could be modesty. Can I answer it with a sentence?

Sure. There's literally no rules. So you know how people ask you who you want to play you in the movie? And I used to say Denzel Washington. I have updated it. It's Trevor Noah. Okay. Okay.

Should it be considered a misdemeanor for someone to claim they've deleted their Facebook when they still use Instagram? Well, maybe a felony. I don't know. A felony? Wow. Listen, tough on tech. Tough on tech. All right.

You're testifying under oath. A senator asks you this. You're under oath. A senator asks you this. You're under oath. Are Boston sports fans cool? How many of you here are from Boston? How many of you here are from New York? Those sports fans? Not cool.

We? Very cool. A little ridiculous, not cool. We, very cool. A little ridiculous, but cool. Final question of deep national importance. What movie best showcases what it's like to live in Boston? Good Will Hunting, The Departed, or this clip

of two Bostonians discovering a baby whale? I don't know what this is, but Jay says it's a fucking big sea turtle. Look, it's a baby fucking whale, man! Holy shit! Now we're embarrassed,

right? Because that's how we speak. I just want to say I'm from the south side of Chicago. Give it up for Governor Deval Patrick. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Such a good sport. That was great. Great to be with you. Thank you so much. One more time. Governor Deval Patrick, coming to the late show. That's commitment.

When we come back, our panel. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. She's a journalist, a co-host of the podcast Recode Decode, and a contributing writer to the New York Times. Please welcome back Kara Swisher.

Kara. Hello, my gay. Right back at you. Right back at you. How you doing? Look at us. You still getting married to that Ronan character? As of a few hours ago, yes.

You know, I'm getting married too. I think we should cause a media storm and run away together. Wow. I know. That would be exciting. I know. We'll do should cause a media storm and run away together. Wow. I know. That would be exciting. I know. We'll do a Michael Barbero. That's what I call it.

Oh, he says nothing. The gays stick together. I win. All right. All right. Sorry. You're going to get us in trouble. All right. You know, pick fights Get us in trouble. All right.

You know, pick fights with people that ink by the barrel, et cetera. Oh, I pick fights with everyone, my friend. Anyway. All right. Just this week, you wrote an op-ed about a leaked memo inside of Facebook. The memo, written by Andrew Bosworth, a.k.a. Boz. Boz.

Covered the company's rationale for handling or not handling political advertising in 2020. You know, they talked about continuing their hands-off approach. They're not handling it. They're not handling it. Yeah. One thing you raised that I thought was such a smart point is it's also about the way Facebook talks about its failure to intervene. And it's one thing they've done repeatedly is they have blurred the lines between just speech on the platform and paid advertisement. And despite how many times people point out to them,

hold on a second, you're taking money for this. This isn't just about posts. Sure. This is about your revenue. They keep making the same argument. Right. Is this ideological? Is it just a pure lack of respect for people?

Are they just looking in our eyes and just bullshitting us despite the fact that everybody knows what's going on? Well, you know, I try to figure out why they're doing it because it really is, what they want to do is wrap themselves in free speech, the idea of free speech, because they don't want to have a cogent discussion with you about what they're doing, which is they're not making a lot of money from paid advertising, but it's part and parcel of their entire economic system of Facebook. And so by calling it paid speech, where you point out they're actually getting paid and it's not the same thing, and that, say, on Twitter, Donald Trump can keep tweeting today

about his perfect whatever, his phone calls and things like that, but the paid speech can't happen, and that's very different. You know, at some point, you have to say either the most cynical people on earth, or perhaps they're not smart. I'm not sure what's going on. Like, you know, there's an expression, intelligence has its limitations, but stupidity is infinite. But I kind of wonder, they actually believe it. There's all these narratives within this company, which is one of the more cult-like companies in Silicon Valley. They believe they're victims. They believe the Russians really had no impact on anything. It's kind of gospel within the company.

And then the idea that they are the protectors of free speech has taken hold within that company, so that they don't want to do anything about it, when in fact it's an abrogation of platform responsibility. And it does seem to flow from Zuckerberg. I remember when you interviewed him, he made that comment that he later had to walk back about why he'd be okay with, I believe, Holocaust deniers. No, he said Holocaust deniers don't mean to lie. Oh, that's right. Yeah. I'm freaking out. But, you know, in his public statements, he said that basically he wants people to be able to see what politicians say, even when they're lying. But it seems like it presumes

some shared basis of facts from which people can adjudicate these fights. Exactly, because it's combined with micro-targeting. See, that's the part that they leave out. Micro-targeting allows the Trump campaign to put a million different messages in a million different ears, many of which are lies. And nobody gets to see or scrutinize them. When you see an ad on a television, know, an ad on a television, Carly Fiorina did that crazy sheep thing. Everyone saw it and was able to laugh at it and to scrutinize her. You can't scrutinize these ads.

And that's the whole point is they're combining lying with micro-targeting. And therefore, you'll never see what's happening and what they're doing. And so therefore, they can egregiously lie. And I think what people get confused about is that everybody gets to say what they want but that's not what's happening there's no commonality about it and so you don't see that you don't see what you need to see to determine it's also

incredibly noisy there's so many messages online is not like television online is not like newspapers it's so vast and so impossible and so noisy, you can't figure out who's lying and who's not. Don't these people have parents? Do they not know what it's like to see a baby boomer try to navigate Facebook? They have parents. I've met all their parents.

They believe that the older people being duped by this stuff can litigate their privacy settings and understand what ads are true understand what ads are true and what ads are false? They actually think that that's possible? They do. They like to bring themselves in with television and newspapers, and they're nothing like television and newspapers. People at television and newspapers have to do their jobs around these things, including stories that are false and not false. Now, look, they get it wrong a lot. That's not the case that they don't

get it wrong. But actually, at the basis of it is that you care about the accuracy. You know that. You've been around media people. They don't get it right all the time, but they don't willfully try to get it wrong or they don't say, oh, whatever appears in newspaper, whatever, who cares? It matters down to the comments. It's just a very different mentality. What they can do

is ruin the media industry, which of course then the tech people accuse you of. The reason you're being mean to Facebook is because they're ruining your business. My business is just fine, so is yours. You know what I mean? High five. We're doing great. So, but it's the lack of responsibility in an amplified and weaponized environment,

which we've talked about before. And they refuse to take responsibility where they get absolutely all the money and take none of the responsibility. And that's really, it's bad for democracy. It's bad for anything. And then the government doesn't step in to do anything about it.

Yeah, I can see why they like it, though. It sounds pretty great. It's a great business. Let's bring out the rest of our panel. She's a comedian and member of the Three Busy Debras and host of the Urgent Care Pod. Please welcome back Mitra Juhari. Hi, Mitra.

How are you? I'm okay. Tonight, I went out to dinner before I came here, and I very confidently ordered something that I thought was meant for one person that was clearly meant for many people, but I was so embarrassed that I ate all of it, and I felt...

I feel really bad. What was it? It was a whole pig. It was this seafood thing that had the word little in the name. L-I-D-D-L-E? It was L-I-L. It was Lil.

It was a joke, I guess, but I ordered it. Then it came, and I was meeting someone for the first time, and I was like, yeah guess but I ordered it and then it came and I was like and I was meeting someone for the first time and I was like yeah that's what I wanted of course so I ate it all and I feel really really bad

and then the waiter came over and he was like oh you actually forgot one piece of shrimp and I was like oh yeah actually I was going to eat that and then I took it and then I ate it and I almost threw up so excited to be back all right he's the founder of very smart brothers a writer at GQ magazine and the author of the book what doesn't kill you makes you blacker please welcome back Damon Young.

Welcome back. Thanks for having me. Good to see you. You're back. Not back here. You were in Pittsburgh before. We were in Pittsburgh and I remember my evening in Pittsburgh based on the sandwich we ate after the show, which is called Permanis, right?

Permanis. And they put french fries inside the sandwich because sometimes in Pittsburgh, you've got to get moving. You've got things to do. You do not have time to order fries and a sandwich. You don't have time for multiple orders. You just pile it all on the same thing. You eat it all in the same bite. We're a very efficient city.

And that comes from our steel background, just efficiency and just that's ingrained in our culture. And I love that about Pittsburgh. I love it, too. Have you ever had a sandwich with french fries inside, Kara Swisher? I'm intermittent fasting. So? Couldn't you have it in your six-hour window? No, I've not had a sandwich with french fries. Why would I do that?

All right, Princess Anne. Never mind. I have not had a sandwich with french fries. Why would I do that? All right, Princess Anne. Never mind. Just for everyone listening at home, I am watching The Crown. There's going to be a lot of Crown references.

Something to just keep an eye on. There'll be a lot of Prince Anne references. A lot of Prince Philip references. Are you excited for the Meghan and Harry part when they get to it? I love a show that says, we're starting in the 30s and we're going to end in the present. I love that as an idea.

I love how bold it is. It's relentless. I was like, I can't believe I have to say goodbye to Claire Foy, but I can't believe I get to say hi to Olivia Colman. Speaking of entertainment, earlier this week...

Thank you guys for doing the late show, by the way. So love to see you all. Earlier this week, way before Bernie and Warren worked together to help Joe Biden become president, Twitter was abuzz. Twitter was abuzz in anger about a different, equally important battle. I'm speaking, of course, about the Oscar nominations. Back in 2015, after Oscars So White went viral, the Academy invited 800 new members, of which 39% were female and 30% were

non-white, which doesn't sound great, but was a huge improvement. This year, not a single person of color was nominated for Supporting Actor or Actress, and among the Supporting Actors, every single nominee was over the age of 56. Despite films like Little Women and Portrait of a Lady on Fire, not a single woman was nominated for Best Director.

In fact, in the last decade, there's only been one time a woman has been nominated for Best Director. Only five women have ever been nominated for Best Director. Since 1927, only 200 black artists have ever been nominated out of 10,000 possible slots. So we thought we'd have our own award show, one that reflects the opinions of a great and diverse society. And by that I mean our specific beliefs. I'd love it or leave it. So it's time to welcome you all to the pundits.

Here's how the pundits are going to be awarded. I will read the nominees for different categories and our panelists have to figure out who should win that category. Okay. You guys ready? Yeah, we're ready. We got it. It's entirely subjective,

and yet there is a right answer. And the nominees for Best Movie to use as a litmus test for whether or not people have good taste. Little Women by Greta Gerwig, Joker by Todd the Bod Phillips, The Irishman by an unknown director. And Cats by John Wayne Gacy.

Talk amongst yourselves. It's definitely Cats. It's definitely Cats. Cats is the best date movie. Best date movie? It's the best date movie. I haven't even seen it, but just the conversations

about it, you know, are great first date conversations. As a litmus test for good taste, I feel like it's very easy to say that you don't like cats. Or that you do

because it's ironic. You don't like cats or you don't like cats? The movie cats. I feel like it's very easy for people to be like, we didn't like the movie. So it's not a litmus test for something that's good.

But you could like it. It's not great. It's not really liking things. Yeah. You would like it because it's cool to like it. You get high and you go and watch it. I mean, I had an amazing time watching Cats. But I feel like it's not great.

Was there shrimp before it? Do what? Was there shrimp before it? So this time I actually went on an empty stomach, so I was able to enjoy my life. The answer is not Joker. Whatever to answer it, it is not Joker.

It's not Joker. That's incorrect, actually. So we actually didn't land on anything. Which is why this is so even harder for me to say. No, well, here's the thing. Isn't Joker

a great litmus test? Because if someone tells you that Joker is their favorite movie, don't you know something really important? You got it. So you said taste. I thought you meant good taste. We're just using it as a way of just judging a person.

Okay. If we're just judging a person, what do you guys think? Well, then, obviously, for me, Little Women, because Joe March is a lesbian, but go ahead. You guys stick together. No, we don't. You don't? You understood the two endings of that movie, right?

I have not seen it yet. Oh. I'm sorry. I'll watch it when I damn well please. John has seen Joker like 30 times. Have you seen Bombshell? What have you seen? I have seen Joker.

I have seen The Irishman, but that's only because you can watch it at home. All right. You watched it at Thanksgiving, didn't you? It took six hours after turkey. I watched it in two sittings, The Irishman. As it was meant to be. As it was meant to be experienced on my phone.

The way Scorsese intended it to be seen. And the nominees for movies I didn't know came out until I saw it nominated for stuff. Ford vs. Ferrari, a movie about cars going vroom vroom vroom. Richard Jewell, which is like When They See Us, but about white people because Clint Eastwood directed it.

The Two Popes, a movie about two popes with a twist ending that reveals that he was Pope Durden the whole time. And Bombshell, which includes an incredible performance by Charlize Theron, who we should all remember dated the lead singer of Third Eye Blind for three years.

What do you think? Oh, Bombshell. Bombshell? That's a tough category. Okay, and I mean this. I already forgot all the nominees. That is correct. Vroom.

Vroom. Bombshell's great. What? That was a great movie, Bombshell. Have you all seen it? Nobody's seen it. You know, I feel like I see enough problematic white women. Just in culture and on TV that I don't have to pay $8 to go see them for two hours in a movie.

Fair point. Celebrate them! I don't need to see Megyn Kelly cosplay when the real Megyn Kelly exists. It's terrifying. Kate McKinnon was funny. Yeah. Do love me some Kate McKinnon. And you didn't see the lesbian scene coming with Margaret Robbie at all, but go ahead. It's terrifying. Kate McKinnon was funny. Yeah. Do love me some Kate McKinnon.

And you didn't see the lesbian scene coming with Margaret Robbie at all, but go ahead. You're like, it's just like... I see everything for lesbian. My grandfather, Dave Simon, he could tell you about every prominent Jew in every place in our society. Like, he had a running tally. Like, he would call me, like, we're up to nine in the Senate, Johnny. And that's you and lesbians. Well. society. He had a running tally. He would call me, like, we're up to nine in the Senate, Johnny. And that's you and lesbians.

Well, I interviewed the cast of The L Word today, so I'm in that kind of tone. Did you record it, or was it just a cover? Yes, I did. And the nominees for Best Picture that takes place in 1917 are 1917,

The Godfather Part II, Anastasia, the 1997 animated film, and maybe Little Women. I don't know. Yeah, that's about right. What do you think, Damon? I'm going to go on a limb

and go with 1917. Mitra, what do you think? Big time Anastasia. We stan Bartok. And you, Cara, what do you stan? Well, obviously Little Women, Joe March is a lesbian. You know what? I actually think you're all correct.

I just think that that's all right. The nominees for Best Driver are Ford guy, Ferrari guy, the taxi driver that ran over Joker in Joker, or Adam Driver in marriage story? Adam driver. He's having a moment right now. Yeah. Um,

I'm going to go with him. I did watch the first hour of marriage story with my wife and that's not a thing I would recommend anyone do. And as soon as I realized the fallacy, just the error of my ways, you know, we found something else to do. We got some hot dogs.

And so, but Adam Driver was great in the movie. He's great in most other things. He was okay in Star Wars, but I'll give him that. So, I'm going to go with Adam Driver. You stopped in the middle of it. Didn I'm going to go with Adam Driver. You stopped in the middle of it. Didn't you want to go with Adam?

I did not. I saw enough. I think the only thing worse than watching it with his spouse is not finishing it. Yeah, it felt like American Ninja Warrior, watching that with the spouse right next to you and all of just the microaggressions and all of the little arguments that you've had with each other are just on screen. And you're watching them.

And then you're going to talk about them later. And it was so fun. There is this quality with marriage. I haven't watched Marriage Story yet. Can't get myself. Sometimes you just can't get that button to press play on it. But there is this thing where people constantly say, don't see it if you want to be married.

It's like, well, I kind of do. But how weak do you think my relationship is that I can't survive this performance? So what are you saying about my marriage, Tom? I actually don't want to see it for that reason. I'm about to get married again, which is the triumph of hope over experience. And I don't want to see it. We keep almost watching it.

And I'm like, maybe not so much. Yeah. Yeah. I vote Ford. And finally, our most prestigious award, the nominees for the Florida Project Award for the movie that should have been nominated at the very least for Best Picture.

The nominees are The Florida Project, The Florida Project, The Florida Project, or Detective Pikachu. You don't want us to respond, right? I guess it really is just a joke. Yeah, okay. I do want to say something

that I feel about Florida Project, which also relates to this question because I loved Uncut Gems and both movies had an actor that Willem Dafoe and Eric Bogosian do it for me in a way that I... But also what I'm realizing is that I just love seeing actors from Law and Order

in movies Eric Boghossian? Yes his inky black hair in that movie ignited something he gives a performance in the film Under Siege that to this day

goosebumps Eric Boghossian in Uncut Gems you feel like his hair dye is going to get in the film Under Siege that to this day, goosebumps. Eric Bogosian in Uncut Gems, you feel like his hair dye is going to get, like, spill onto his face at any moment. That's the danger he brings to the role. My experience of that movie is being like, whoa, I am so horny.

And then also so stressed out. And then it's like, wow, Bogosian and the fat Jew? Anyway, Florida Project. We come back. The rant wheel. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.

And we're back. Now it's time for the rant wheel. You know how it works. We spin the wheel wherever it lands. We rant about the topic. This week on the wheel we have Joker's 11 Oscar nominations, Warren versus Sanders,

The Crown, Mindhunter, Bill Barr and Apple, Space Travel, Arguing on Twitter, and the lawyers who sit silently next to their clients during interviews. Let's spin the wheel.

It has landed on Bill Barr and Apple suggested by Cara. Can you just explain to me what's happened? I don't think people know. A Saudi cadet shot and killed people at a military base in Pensacola, Florida. Very similar to what happened in San Bernardino many years ago.

And he had two iPhones with him, which he was communicating on an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 7. And got damaged as part of the shooting, what was happening. They wanted Apple to open the iPhone, essentially, for them, but they didn't say how or what or how to do it. And they can't because it's designed not to be open.

It's encrypted. It's called this encryption debate, and that was what happened the last time. And so the first time the government asked for this, which is what James Comey asked, they wanted them to open it by creating something that Apple called a government OS, that it will allow the government to have a back door and change the very nature of a phone. And the reason why it's problematic is if you open one phone with this,

you can open everybody's iPhone. And so Bill Barr just got up there and made this incredibly disingenuous speech about the fact that he just wanted it to open, so he's comparing it to a front door or something else. When in fact it's completely different. It opens up all kinds of issues that the government wants to be able to have a back door into phones, which I think is very risky, and they tried to set it up like a fear thing. It was really disturbing, especially because he kept complimenting the Saudis effusively during it, When in fact, you know, he said this is a matter of it's important public policy

and it's something that Apple's responsible for. And I thought, isn't the government responsible for vetting the Saudi cadets? Isn't the government responsible for looking at their social media? This particular man did a public social media feed where he talked about jihadism. So they weren't monitoring him either. So it's a breakdown of lots of things. But Apple is the only thing keeping us from having all our cell phones vulnerable. Bill Barr is a disingenuous person who is lying about the situation at Apple. I was particularly irritated this week by the press conference that he

gave where he talked about Apple not substantively helping him with the opening the iPhone. And he said, we just want them to open the iPhone, which leaves out the fact that you actually can't open the iPhone, which is how they designed it. And so he didn't ask Apple to do anything in particular. He just said, we want it open. Well, it can't be open because it's designed not

to be open. And the fact that they're pressing for this without asking for anything specific, like James Comey did, even though I don't agree with him, he did ask for Apple to create a new OS that would bypass all current OSs in order for the government to be able to enter anybody's cell phone at any time.

And presumably, if there's a government backdoor, it might be possible for governments like the Saudi government and other authoritarian governments to get access to people's phones, including human rights activists and others that are in danger. Right. And I don't mind having the debate about this. This should be a public debate about whether we should have legislation to do this, but that's not what they want to do. They want to set it up in this fear-mongering way in that it's either the terrorists or not. But, you know, this idea,

and it's just one of the, you know, I always thought that, his name is so perfect, he always goes to the lowest bar and then he manages to go further. And so in this case, it's really just, the entire speech was so offensive and disingenuous. And to say that they actually did do subpoenas, Apple gave over tons of information that was on iCloud. And they do, most of the tech companies

give up way too much information to the government when under subpoena, and they do it. But in this case, they're setting up a false dichotomy, and a lot of people are like, why won't they just open the phone? And I'm like, it's not designed to be open. It's designed not to be opened. So I'm really irritated by this particular man,

but he does that every week. All right. Let's spin it again.. It has landed on Joker's 11 nominations. Over to Joker super fan Damon. Ah, yes. Yes, back to me. I'm going to start with Todd Phillips. During a press tour for Joker, he repeatedly talked about how difficult it was for comedians to make jokes and for rich white men like him

to create work. And again, this is Todd Phillips, the director of The Hangover, old school, and a billion dollar comic book movie talking about how hard it is to get his product out there. Now, I'm used to aggrieved white men getting their way because, you know, this is America and that's what America does. I mean, you know, our president is an aggrieved white man that got his way. So the Joker getting 11 Oscar nominations wasn't a surprise. You know, it making a billion dollars wasn't a surprise.

But what did surprise me, I actually saw it, and I knew, I figured it wasn't going to be great, but I thought it would at least be provocative. I didn't think it would be so fucking boring. I mean, I was waiting to be hit with something, to feel something, and watching it was like watching paint joke. And, you know, and I know Joaquin, am I pronouncing his name right Joaquin Phoenix you know he lost a bunch of weight he did some CrossFit you know he got some tats

or did whatever you know he did his thing you know so he deserves the you know the nomination and the laws or whatever but if I want to spend two hours watching entitled, aggrieved, and angry white men and be bored by it,

I'll just go to Cracker Barrel. And at least Cracker Barrel has good pancakes. Let's spin it again. It has landed on space travel cosmonaut mitra jari you ever make a game time decision And then you get to talk about it. Okay. My main gripe with space travel is just... Well, okay.

So I got a call before the show started. They were like, Mitri, you haven't sent your thing in. And then the other guests are going to speak so eloquently and so intelligently about real things that actually matter and like raise salient points. So you need to make sure that you're talking about something in an equally sort of intelligent way. So I was like, great, perfect space travel. So my easy, easy. It's easy for me to do this.

I'll do space travel. And my gripe with space travel is just that I have not been invited to participate and I think that's problematic because I think I would really do a great job on the moon I think I would say funny stuff from the ship I think I would really appreciate the opportunity

I can eat anything I would have a great time on the flight there. And if I don't get to go, why do all the dorks get to go? Someone fun should get to go. I would like maybe hook up on the flight, which would be cool. And I would talk about it. So like America could get invested.

I would maybe like sing a lot while I'm on the flight. And it is a flight. And I don't care where I go. As long as I'm in space. So I think this is something. Would there be an outfit? I think for me, string bikini. Would there be an outfit?

I think for me, string bikini. America, every time I'm on this podcast, so many people reply and they say, what does Mitra look like in a string bikini? We need to know. Based on the way she sounds, her annoying voice tells us that she's very hot and we want to see her in a string bikini. And I would do that if I could go on the plane to space.

Thank you. I, too, am running for office. And I think whatever you think about daylight savings time. As long as I get to go to space. There is no daylight savings time in As long as I get to go to space. There is no daylight savings time in space. Exactly. Let's

spin it again. That was a surprise. It has landed on the crown. But don't worry, it has landed on the crown but don't worry it also landed on Mindhunter because I'm going to connect him what how is it even possible

they're such different energies I love the crown it's about a group of rich people committed to a moral obligation of doing nothing. There is an episode in which the royal family is filmed talking about how boring it is to watch them being filmed watching television for a television show in the world. And the most recent and very dramatic episode

is the story of the queen not leaving her house for a week and then realizing she should have left earlier in the week. There's a very dramatic scene in which a birthday cake is being walked into an ornate room and then Queen Elizabeth walks into that room and says, Winston is dead. This is Churchill, right?

Yes, Churchill. Winston Churchill is dead and it ruins that birthday party. Roll credits. Winston Churchill is dead and it ruins that birthday party roll credits and I'm going to keep watching it and I'm going to watch it when they transition from Olivia Colman to I assume Helen Mirren I don't know who's next in the roster

I'm a little bit annoyed that as Prince Philip gets older I like that Matt Smith, all right? And I like that Matthew Goode. There were some hot royals in season one and two. And now they're getting older. And that's fine. The point is, I go to Netflix with an open heart, all right? You show me The Crown, I may not get to it for a year or two,

but I'm going to get to it. All right? Because books have nothing on TV. And so I watch the OA, a deeply strange show about an angel who uses the power of dance to stop mass shootings.

Later, it was also about an octopus and I believe a plane crash that wasn't shot. Might have come up in future seasons. But it was canceled. And I watched Mindhunter, where Jonathan Groff plays a straight person. And he really gives it his all. And there are moments during Mindhunter where just for a brief moment, And he really gives it its all, and he...

And there are moments during Mindhunter where just for a brief moment, I believe I'm watching a heterosexual Mindhunter. But the OA, canceled. Mindhunter, canceled. Yeah, you're finding out from me, it's horse shit. And the problem with Netflix is. It's horse shit. And the problem with Netflix is because there's no ratings.

You don't know until it's too late that you didn't do your part to save the shows that you love. I would have done more for the OA. I would have. I would have done more for Mindhunter, a very, very dark and deeply strange show about heterosexual Mindh mind hunter Jonathan Groff. And I say this as someone who greatly admires what the robots at Netflix are making.

What the precogs in their bath over there at Netflix are producing. And so I only beseech the good people at Netflix in their panopticon from which they watch us all in our homes and the decisions we make. I'm not going to complain about the fact that everything auto-plays

and there's just no way to stop it. That if you so much as come within 15 feet of a television, a baking show begins to play. I'm not going to complain about it. That's your business. I also am not going to complain about the fact that if you, for even one fucking moment,

want to enjoy and savor something you watched by experiencing the music chosen by a creator to play over the credits, Netflix reaches through that set and punches you in the face and says, you go fuck yourself. Episode four is already 15 minutes in.

Catch up, you motherfucker. They've already baked two dishes. I'm not going to complain about it. I'm not. I'm not. Do what you have to do, Netflix, to keep us on the hook. I only ask you this.

When shows are on the bubble, strange and beautiful shows with witches and octopuses and mind hunters, just tell us. Put out a flare and say, hey, don't get too attached to this mine hunter.

You're not going to see him very much. Give us a chance to know what's going to maybe have a chance of coming back or not. Just tell us. Just say, hey, you might want to think about launching a campaign to save the OA

because we're going to fucking 86 this thing for a witcher starring a magically handsome man that shouldn't exist. At least you have the crown. But at least, as Cara helpfully points out, I do have the crown. And I deeply appreciated an episode

that was 100% about Prince Charles being rained on at school. And with that, I say to you goodnight. Thank you to Deval Patrick, Kara Swisher, Mitra Juhari, Damon Young, The Improv, Nancy Pelosi. 289 days until the election. Get to work.

Thank you for coming out. Have a great night. Love It or Leave It is a product of Crooked Media. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett, Elisa Gutierrez, Lee Eisenberg, our head writer and Michael Bloomberg speechwriter,

Travis Helwig, and writers Jocelyn Kaufman, Alicia Carroll, and Peter Miller. Bill Lance is our editor and Frank Tadek is our sound engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Sure Sure. Thanks to our designers, Jesse McLean and Jamie Skeel for creating and running all of our visuals,

which you can't see because this is a podcast. And to our digital producers, Nar Melkonian and Yael Freed for filming and editing video each week so you can.