Lovett or Leave It - Lovett or Leave It Presents: Bravo, America! (with Dorinda Medley)

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

Dorinda Medley recounts her days during the wild west of Bravo, before housewives considered social media, glam squads, and consequences. And she talks about how reality TV helped her become the star of her own life, how years as an Upper East Side political spouse readied her for the high-heeled combat of Real Housewives, and how in both worlds the worst thing anyone can be is boring. She and Lovett also commiserate about being eliminated first from their respective competition shows, although Dorinda’s ouster from The Traitors was far less justified.  For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Trump says this kind of thing all the time, which is it's great. to be loves. It's fine to be hated. The only thing you can't be is boring. I agree. And, you know, we talked to... I can't believe I'm agreeing with that, but okay. I know. That's going to be the first time. We'll see if it's the last. Hey everybody, it's John Lovett. Welcome back to

Love It or Leave It Presents. Bravo, America. I'm sitting down with some of my favorite personalities from reality TV because I genuinely believe that you cannot understand politics in this moment. if you don't understand the dynamics of reality television. Here's how Congresswoman Sarah McBride put it on Potsave America earlier this year. Some of my colleagues are treating me the way they are treating me for a couple of reasons. One, it's because they want attention, right?

They want to employ the strategies of a Bravo TV show to get attention in a body of 435 people. And the way to do that is to pick a fight with someone and throw a wine in their face. Today is a big day for me because I am talking to the one and only Dorinda Medley, one of the icons from the real housewives of New York, the queen of making it nice. It was so much fun talking to Durinda about everything from how she sees her time on Roney, her thoughts on what our elected officials

can learn from the housewives, and surprisingly how she feels about her former castmate Ramona's singer today and Ramona's chances if she ever decided to run for office. Truly, it was such a blast, such a charismatic and interesting and vulnerable person,

but also a really tough person. which is, I think, two of the qualities that made her such an amazing figure on reality television. So here she is, the one and only, Durinda Medley. I just want you to know, when we finish, everybody wants to gather for a photo. Oh, I'd love that. And here are the people that we've done that for, that have been ex-people have been so excited about that we've done the photos. Kamala Harris. Oh.

Bernie Sanders. Okay. I love him. Megan Rapino. Well. Elizabeth Warren. Who else is on that list? Julia Louis Dreyfus

A lot of people don't Bill Nye the science guy A lot of people don't make the list Obviously I'm doing something right Outside a housewife Durinda Yes welcome I'm very excited to be here

So you and I have something in common Okay Which is we have a shared experience And it is this We know what it is like To fly halfway across the world Film a reality competition show Okay

Then spend six months Having people say How excited they are To see how we do And not being able to say how we did. Yes. Very, very, I had to exercise a lot of discipline on that one, a lot.

I would walk down the street and people would be like, oh my God, I'm so excited for you to be on traitors. And I'd be like, well, don't get that excited. I mean, it was really hard. I was on a plane and Julia Louis-Dreyfus was like, I'm so excited you're going to be on Survivor. And I can't wait to see how you do. And I'm just thinking, oh, she's going to watch. me go home first.

Oh, I'm going to tell you something. I was in such a state of... When I walked in, first of all, I'm thinking, I've got this. My daughter who, you know, is at Harvard getting her Ph.D., so she studied the whole thing. I had a 20-page dissertation, how I've broken down the U.K. 1 verse, read that. I was reading The Art of War. I was reading all these poets. I was working.

I spent like $10,000 on trainers. The clothes. The clothes. The looks. The looks. And I'm thinking, I am smarter. I am a warrior. And guess what happened?

The piece of paper, you are murdered. I was beside myself. It's unbelievable. With fear and grief. It was a combination of fear and grief. And I think it was because I was like, how do I, like, first of all, I got to go home. First of all, you can't even leave your apartment or be on social media. So you literally go from being sequestered to being sequestered in your life.

Yeah, because you can't, you have to pretend like you're still there. And I don't know if you had this feeling because, because, uh, failure. Well, sure. Humiliation. Absolutely. Fear. But also, sadness. Halfway around the world to get punched in the face.

No one made you do it. You chose to do it. Well, I didn't think about it like that. I just was so deeply disappointed because it was the first time. And this was the great, I always say you walk away from everything with a, hopefully a lesson. Yeah. And it was the first time that I couldn't control it. You know, like on the housewives, it's not that you can control it,

but you can sort of be very cleverly create your narrative and manipulate others. Like, this was the first time that it really was a game of chance. I couldn't even, I remember calling someone at NBC and saying, I'm so sorry that I disappointed you. He's like, you didn't. You weren't even long enough. I'm long enough. They just, in fact, we think in the long run, it's going to be a compliment to you

because they obviously were afraid of you at some level. And, of course, I couldn't buy into that because I'm just thinking. But it actually worked out fine because I think I got as much press as the winners. In fact, I may have gotten more. I'll tell you something. They got you out because you're a threat.

That worked on me. That made me feel better about it. So you first pop up on Real Housewives in an earlier season as a friend. Couple times. Couple times. Not even as a friend, just as background. You're just in the background.

Well, as their friends. Yeah, but not in a friend. friend role. Right, right, not an official friend role. You're just, we're on the show. Yeah, because we're all friends. You're all friends. Is it true that you were offered, or at least you would entertain the idea of being on the show a few years before you were ultimately on it? Well, here's the thing. It was a very different way they, the way they handled it back then. Now I think it's gotten much more formal and official. And back then, you know, we all just do each other. So like, I remember it was, remote was like, they're doing a show. And we're all like, you know, somewhere, you know,

just dropped her, because her daughter went to school with my daughter. So it was like, they're doing a show, and they're going to follow all of us around, and they're going to, we're going to, I'm thinking, well, why? Like, that's the most ridiculous. Why would they follow you around, right? Right. And at the time, Hannah was at a private school, and I wasn't with her father anymore. So he would have never considered it.

And I just was at a different point in my life where, first of all, I really didn't understand the concept. and B, I just wasn't in a position where I wanted my daughter on TV so young, right? I just thought. And so I just started, Ramona, and all of them would be like, well, come to this, come to that. So it always was like, are you going to come on next year? Are you going to come on next year? And, you know, after I married Richard, I couldn't do it either because he was involved in speech writing for Hillary Clinton and the Council of Foreign Relations. So then I had to be that wife, you know, the political wife that was very up for his side and, you know, fancy and chic.

And then after he passed, Ramona was like, okay, now it's time. And it wasn't very formal. I went and had lunch with one of the people, and they said, okay, and I did a film, and that's it. I got a contract. I was originally going to do it one year and kind of try to be a friend of, but obviously that didn't work. I'll tell you one thing, but I remember I was in Ramona's Singer's kitchen doing our first scene in the Hamptons. And I remember that camera coming around and thinking, oh, I like the camera, and I think the camera likes me. So that's, what, yeah.

This is great. What, what, you, yeah, you had, you definitely clearly were, you found your calling. You know, but what was your, yeah, I think you might have, but what was your feeling? That's a positive and a negative, but let's go with it. Right, well, I want, we'll get to that. But, like, what, what was your impression of reality TV before you were on it? Like, what did you think about it? Had you consumed it?

Were you aware of it? Well, I watched it, of course. We all, I mean, back then, reality TV was such a. new concept. I mean, Bravo and all that kind of thing, they weren't really real channels to anyone yet. So you got to remember, I come from the era where Bravo, you're like, I hate to say it, and they're going to kill me, but it was kind of like a skip channel. You're like, oh, what is this Bravo, right? And then reality TV kind of, this concept was so new, even before the housewife's when we had queer eye for a straight guy. Wow, what is that? And so you started to engage at a

different level, which was reality. And even I, as a viewer, you know, started to fall in love with the character. So you really thought in a different, you know, you watch a movie. You don't really know these people. You know, they're acting. But all of a sudden, you're like, I really like that guy, Top Felicia. I think we're going to be friends. You know what I mean?

There's definitely a crossover. So I was engaged in it. And, but, you know, I know it sounds ridiculous, but I think it was simpler times. Yeah. You know, so I don't think there was a lot of thought. as you just went on and you were yourself, authentically yourself. And you've got to remember, all of us knew each other so well that, and they were all in it together.

We both knew each other so well, but we also knew that, you know, we made a commitment and we come from an error that if we sign our name to something or commit to a job, we do a great job. I think my generation is very competitive, very, like, has to succeed in everything they do and do your best and don't let anyone down. So you just went in there And you just were kind of your authentic self And I don't, I think the real question is

Wasn't what did I think of it Is what did I think after the fact That's the real question Well that's what I was curious about that So and it does seem like there's multiple after So there's filming, right? Yes And there's what you feel about it after you filmed it

Well I didn't know I was like because I had no idea I didn't even know what editing meant I kind of in this weird way Even though we were filming Yeah six 10 12 hours day I just thought it all went on there and they could see everything and I'm sure it's, I was just hoping for the best

and that way, you know, and also, too, you have to remember, it was soon after that post thing of Richard passing and Hannah going off to college. So I was sort of like a toothpick in the ocean. I was sort of like didn't, I had lost all the titles that sort of I kind of cherished, you know, and I was like, what am I doing now? And so for me, it was a great way to occupy myself. And it was also very therapeutic, right, to be with all my girlfriends six days a week and have purpose again. Also, too, I think I, what I realized very, are, am I talking too much? No, you can't. There's no, it's, we got a lot of time to fill between the mattress. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I think what it was for me, I think the biggest revelation was for so

many years, you know, I'd been, you know, Hannah's mom, you know, Mrs. Lynch, you know, my first husband's wife, Mrs. Medley, like these were these, you know, kind of labels that I put on myself or jobs. I love, listen, I love doing it. I would do it all over again. I have no shame and that. And it was very committed to that in all ways that it was really interesting to all of a sudden just be Dorinda. That's it.

For the first time, people just were falling in love with Durinda, you know, and I found that really interesting. And I really didn't take that on until I came out. And it was funny, when it first came out, I'll never forget it, they had done a, back then we used to have to be super secretive. So no one knew you were on. Now they post it as soon as they're doing like their first scene. It's posted everywhere. And your big come out was you've got a open page on the New York Post of Spread. So that came out and I was like, oh my God, I'm famous.

Like, look at how glamorous I am, right? Because I've never seen myself in that way, right? and I remember the next morning I went to my favorite I would walk, come out of my building and across the street was this fruit guy that I'd do two things I'd get a coffee

and then get a piece of fruit and go upstairs and I would just have on like a sweatshirt and my leggings or pajama bodied and it was like seven in the morning and this person turned to me and said, oh my God are you during the medley?

And I was like, yes, now where have we met? You know what I mean? And I realize, uh-oh, the veil has been lifted. It'll never be the same again. And so, but so there feels like there's two experiences of watching it. One is seeing the edit and seeing yourself. Yeah.

And then the other is seeing what you couldn't see, what people were saying. And I'm wondering if that affected how you thought about being on the show going forward. I don't know if it affected me, but it was a learning curve because you realize there's, there's an art. It is a bit of an art of war. Like there's some people that are very clever at like just being one way when you're filming. and then they use the confessionals to destroy you, right? So I'm like, oh, I can actually do that. Like that, you know, so you start to, like anything,

it's a learning curve. It's a strategy. And some people were brilliant at it. Like Bethany Frankel was brilliant at her confessionals. For sure. You know what I mean? There's nothing like a Bethany Frankel confessional. Well, that was, I mean, that seems also jarring for the other women on the show,

which is they would see the confessionals from Bethany to be like, well, holy shit, you ripped me to people. So there's a quote that you have in your book about the show being chess in high heels that you have to march in like a military general. But at the same time on the show, you're saying this is me, this is who I am, and that doesn't feel like those can both be true. Of course they do. I mean, I think they're both true because I think the difference is I think I march into all my life with heels down with a sergeant judge. I mean, I'm barely ever playing checkers. I'm kind of in life always playing chess. You know, but I think it gets exacerbated a bit when you have the cameras on and you're filming 12 hours a day. So you really have to be prepared for what's, and it's coming, like it or not.

You know, you have to be prepared. And after the first season, you have to decide if you have the mentality, the stamina, the wherewithal to take that on. But it's a shock, right? It's a shock. Right. It's a competitive friendship. You said, you know, you're attacking perpetually and re-evaluing your situation and how to win. What is winning?

What is winning? Winning is probably twofold. It's walking away from it, even after the show airs. And even if you don't get the response from the audience, you like having the conviction to know, I believe in that. And next season, I'm going to show you, and I'm going to build on this. It's a buildable thing. And winning is also just allowing the audience to walk through that process with you. Listen, I always find it very interesting that people go in this, especially now when they're so knowledgeable and stuff.

You sign the dotted line. They're pretty clear about what you're doing. And if you don't want to take the good, the bad, and the ugly, which is what being authentic is. And you just want it to be, you know, I always say portraits can't be participants. So if you want to be a portrait, then stay on Instagram, be an influencer, do a TikTok. But this is going to, you know, it's like peeling an onion. And the longer you're on the show, the more the onion is peeled. And that ultimately is a good thing because you hand it over to the audience and they take from it all these things and they decide, I like this person.

Yeah, microleys are things I don't really enjoy about her, but I've done that before. but macrally, I get her. And I will choose to engage in her and have a love affair with this character. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. Love It or Leave It is brought to you by Cowboy Colostrum. If you're like most people who are looking for wellness supplements,

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For limited time, our listeners get 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboy colostrum.com and use code love it at checkout. that's 25% off when you use code Love It at cowboy colostrum.com. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. Are there moments where you've talked about the show me? Yeah, there are moments where you've been reflective. You said the show can make you protective and the show can make you reflective.

Are there moments that from the earlier seasons where, a similar moment could have happened later but you caught yourself that oh you're about to do that thing that you hated seeing yourself you know honestly probably no probably no i don't because i don't i think when you're in it and you're in the days are so long and you're so engaged that a you forget about the cameras. And B, you just, you're who you are. And in a weird way, the screw-ups become the great memes, you know, and you reconciling them or bringing them around and having to go through the process of trying, attempting to make both your colleagues and your audience to understand it, is kind of where the rub is, but also where the growth happens.

Yeah, there's, well, part of it is knowing yourself, but you have to trust yourself, but you also have to trust the show a little bit. Yes, of course. The whole thing, you know, you got to remember this show, yeah, you have these incredible characters, but there's layers and layers of people, your cameraman, your sound people, your editors, your production company, Bravo, NBC. And I will say that throughout the years when I was on, they're in constant communication with you, and they do carry you through the process. So, you know, you're sort of dealing with your production company first, which is shed and smaller. They do their thing. Then they give it to Bravo. So then Bravo kind of takes you over and does through the PR. Then it goes to NBC, which is sort of like the big daddy, right?

At that point, you're either cooked or you're whatever, right? So you have to lean into it. But you never feel like even when you're going through it, you never feel, I could only speak from my own experience. But I never feel it. I never felt abandoned. I felt like, oops, well, that probably wasn't such a great season. Hopefully I'll have a better next year. You know what I mean?

Or, oh, my God, that's a great season. But there always was something that came out of it that I think. I always say, and I still think it applies today, when someone new comes on, at the end of the season, you should be able to take six things from them. What are the six things you learned about this character that is going to create a love affair? It's like when you first go on dates, oh, I really like his family, or I like the fact that he does this or his hobbies. And I think if you can do, like for me, I was, you know, I had Bluestone Manor, I lost my husband, I was friends with these girls, I like to make it nice, I love holidays, you know, just all these kind of things that people are like, I'm a great, I think of myself as a good mother, I'm balzy. I tell it like it is. I, you know, you don't want to pull shit on me, you know, because I'm going to call you out every time. Right. So all of a sudden there's people who are like, okay, I can get my hands around this girl. And I want to see how she's going to grow on the show. That's so funny. That's so interesting because I understand how that would be your list of six. But when I think of you on the show, to me it's two things. It is one that you're incredibly vulnerable, that you're actually that and that you are open. You know, you go on this trip with Carol. You're clearly on this show at a period of transition of difficult.

period of position in your life. And people forget that. You got to remember, I was only like two years out. I didn't even know if it was from, you know, going through that, that. But that was, what a beautiful gift that was. Not only for me, but for a lot of people that, you know, were young. I always, you know, I think about that time. And, you know, people would call me a widow, and I'm like, I'm too young to be a widow.

So I was misplaced there. Do you think about a widow as some old? I remember this woman at Elios when night was talking to him. And she goes, oh, are you here with your husband? I said, oh, no, I'm a widow. She goes, oh, no, you're not a widow. I'm a widow. I'm 88 years old.

You're something else, just unfortunate, but not a widow. Very upre side. I was like, well, thanks a lot. It doesn't really make it better. But, you know, I think to have someone to discuss that with, and then the amount of people that reached out and, like, really just, like, found peace in it and didn't feel alone.

because as we know, there's certain things, divorce can be one of them, death can be another, things, you can feel isolated and not shameful, but you don't know how to connect. And it was a great way to connect on a level that you could share this kind of thing that was going through. It was a teaching moment, as far as I'm concerned. You know, I would write a lot of jokes for, you know, I wrote jokes for politicians. And what we would find is the more honest you are, about your own flaws, joking about yourself, the harder you can be on somebody else. I don't know if that's true. Well, here's what I mean by it. I mean that what it gives you the space to go harder on other people whilst people still,

like you're one of the meanest people that I love, right? You think I mean? Oh, there are moments, there are moments in this show where you are so mean. No, I'm honest. Yeah. I'm honest and I may call it out, but I don't know if I'd call it mean.

And usually if you notice and you go back, I'm always, it's always in response. to something. I always say in life, I'll never shake your hand first, but I'll shake it back hard. Well, absolutely. No, not saying it has to come back justified. That's not mean. That's like we've got to put a stop to this. Let's say tough. Tough. That's a better word. Extremely tough. Because it means labeling. Yeah, well, I, I'm harsh. There are moments of, and probably well deserved. And well, and never for abs. No one's saying otherwise. No one's saying otherwise. Well, there's a line. And I think that's the, and you're doing a little housewife for you because that's the way to, to, to. to corner you or put you in a box.

It's not, because you can't ever micromanage a situation. You've got to look at the macro and understand, do I shut the shit down? Yeah. And I do that in my own life. It just happened a couple days ago. I was like, now we're done. I've been lenient, I've been good.

But that's a very Sagittarian trait. Exactly. You know, when you're good, you're great, when you're bad, you're terrible. You know, I will be a sleeping tiger. But you pull my tail one time, I'll let it go. Well, you just pat me on the back. I'm great. You start to touch my mouth.

Well, then you're going to get a bite, aren't you? This is, I mean, honestly, people like it. People like, but yeah, well, you said, there's one point in as you said, treatment like a dog, I'll bark. Yeah. So the reason I bring that up is there's no show like Real Housewives with men. It just doesn't exist. And I wonder why you think that is.

Like, what is it about women in a show like this? that there's a, I think there's good and badger. I think part of it is this like, I can't, it's conceivable for men to be as interesting. I've thought about that, because you're absolutely right. I've thought about that. I don't know if it's just historically,

we tend to gather together. Like I come from a very Italian, Polish family, but mainly Italian, because my mom's Italian. So, of course, you always lean to, or in our family, it was everything was Italian, Italian. And whenever there was a room of,

aunties and uncles and grandmas and cousins and all the women in the kitchen. It was a, you know, Christmas morning would start off great, but by two, someone was fighting. You know what I mean? They were this and you did that. And then at the end of the night, they all kissed each other goodbye and off they went. And I think there's something about women that are together in these were just very, you don't see, I don't, anyway, you know, men just gathering. We love to gather. I mean, listen, I always say, oh, you got to do to sell something on Instagram and say,

girls weekend. They'll stampede to it. Like, we just love girls weekends. So girls retreats and everybody, that's who we are. We like to gather in big groups and just, you know, gossip and banter and tell each other off and get back together and they love each other. Then always, there always ends with a cry. We love a good cry, you know, at the end of the weekend. So I think it's just historically how we kind of roll. And then they obviously gets, you know, it gets shown on TV and You got to remember, some of those days were filming, they're long. You may see it in an eight-minute clip, but that may be hours. And sometimes you start at 8.30 in the morning on those girls' trips.

You don't go to bed until midnight. Yeah, it seems exhausting. I was watching it. But it's fun. Well, you kept going back for more. You're still going back for more. Well, no, I'm not. I don't know.

What show are you talking about? Well, you've been, well, all right, yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. What show? Did I miss something? No, didn't miss anything. Didn't miss anything? But it also sometimes feels like alcohol is like the eighth housewife on the trip.

Of course. And that like shows up. Alcohol is the eighth is a way. This is what I love is when people start to question things. What party, have you been to a bachelor party? Have you been to a bachelor party? Bachelor party I've been to. Have you been to?

Are they usually sober? Have you been to any picnic where it's usually sobered? Have you been to a wedding? Alcohol is usually involved in most of our life. So I don't think you, I think it's very easy to corner it to these things because, but of course, I mean, that's just a given. And I think they've lessened that. You know, we had free reign. You know, like I said, it was a bit for me anyway.

And I'm just speaking, I have to use all those words, like allegedly. I mean, I've covered myself now, right? Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. You know, it was much more of, I think, the Wild West because we didn't worry so much about everything. Now I would be very frightened to be on reality TV like that. Because, God, we've gone through so much, you know, in the last five or six years. Everything has changed, the rules and the regulations, what you say, what you don't do, it's very monitored, that I actually think it'd be much harder to be on reality TV full time now. Because you can get in big trouble.

You think because of the reaction, because of the people paying attention? Yeah, I just think the stakes are much higher now. I never thought about it. Is that sound so weird? I never thought about it. I never worried about it. Of course, I was like, oh, that was a bad episode. But I didn't really walk around with also, too, I think the social media game is so intense now.

And a lot of the bloggers and stuff like they're really running. They're really running. They know more than we know. So it was a much more of like we'd be filming and it was a big mystery until it came out. And there wasn't that voracious studying and just micromanaging everything. and pulling out every word and talking about this and lawsuits and, like, it's scary now. Yeah, that's so, there's something about, like, I know that... I never once walked away from the show thinking I'm going to get sued or I said something wrong

that's going to get me in big trouble. Yeah. I mean, I know that when I've had nights, because I agree, you know, alcohol is part of my best and worst nights, you know? Of course, for all of us. And you'd be silly and ridiculous not to admit that. Right, of course. You know, we're only human, and that's probably.

of the authentic people. And that's one thing that you can call out on reality is when you know someone's playing one game on the show and then the minute the cameras are off,

they're doing it all. And you're like, wait a second. And that must drive you crazy. Of course. And then that bleeds into whatever else because you're like,

what? You know, so, you know, there's a lot of stuff you have to take in. Yeah. One time I drank too much and called in Joe Biden

to withdraw. I was thinking about even the Love Hotel hell that was on now. And I, when that, who's the host names again, Joel, whatever? Yeah, you know that. When I was reading those Instagrams, I'm like, uh-oh, someone was drinking too much because he must I just thought to myself because we've all done that Instagram or that late night.

I mean, I remember once I texted something late night and I woke up next morning, I was praying at 630 that I didn't write it. I'm like, it was a dream. It was a dream. I was like, oh, my God! Well, yeah, but you have those moments. That's the thing that I, what I was feeling whenever I see, which is you have those moments in life where you've, you know, and by the way, sometimes it's just a truth you weren't

ready to share yet. Or maybe you don't always say it in the most articulate way, but it's many times. Your heart's coming out. But it's very different when it's also going to be on television in a few months. Or is it not? Who cares? Who cares? Who cares? Okay. So Sally and Iowa doesn't like me for a couple of weeks. I'll win her back. Well, you know what I mean? All right. And you do winter back. And it doesn't change my life. I get up and I do the same things and Everything's the same. And I never really was, I think also, too, that's different now, is it's a much more branded thing. Like, everybody was selling something or branding something or really curating their image.

I mean, half the time you saw me and we were in our bed, we didn't even brush our hair. Like, we just wasn't that curated. Well, I remember. I wouldn't even have the wardrobe or the makeup people. I'm not going to say who, but I was in NBC about, I don't know, a year ago. And I was doing something for Bravo Insider or something. something, and in walked one of the housewives, that was a new housewife, and they had a whole team with them.

I never, I still, I just have Ryan here, and that's like, I never had a team. I never had people. Like, it was just, I, if we were going to do a press tour, I would be like, Luann, you want to share a car? You know, and then there were crazy conversations like, what, I was laughing with Ramona the other day. I said, remember this time, and literally we didn't, there was no room to complain or say, were not doing it. There was, there's a lot of that now, too. Like, we just got our schedules

and we were like, okay, I remember where we gathered at NBC, this is a true story, and we were laughing about it the other day. And they said, okay, you know, Bethany and Carol, they're going to Good Morning America. We're like, oh, that's a fair. Okay, whatever, what's my assignment? Okay. And then they do Luann and Sonia, you're going to something else. You're going to H&M to be on the Jumbo Tram. I'm like, well, that's a good one, too. Why didn't I get that one, right? So it's left for the Ramona. So I'm like, well, okay, what are we doing? Oh, you're going down to Times Square, and we're going to stick you on the Jumbo Trom.

And you're going to say, one of you is going to say, and the premier of Real Housewives of New York City and the other person is going to bite into a hot dog. In front of a hot dog stand. This is true. You probably can still pull it up. And Roman was like, well, I mean, I don't eat hot dogs. So, like, I'll do that. And you're going to, I'm like, well, okay, I'll eat a hot talk. But I say, they're like, we won't put a lot of ketchup on it, so it won't spill on your thing.

I'm like, oh, well, you can put ketchup on it. So, of course, and I'm thinking, that's how that went down. They drove us down. And I'm like, okay, tell me when to bite into Lasca. We go in the jumbo drama. And we want to go, and tonight, the premiere of Real Housewives, a dear C, sees, whatever, and I go, right? And that was it. No discussion, no rehearsal.

Check, we're next. You know what I mean? You're just like a team player. You're just into it. Well, we all were. Yeah. And we all were excited for press days. There was really no team, no nothing.

Ramona was always worried about where we were going to have lunch. You know, it was just sort of like another day to be all together. Yeah. Also, those trips seem so grueling, but it seems like for Ramona, it was like just a vacation. Oh, Ramona thought they were real vacation. She would call me up and be like, oh, my God, are you back for the holiday? I'm like, what holiday? Like, no, no, she really, really, but Ramona was remarkable because by the time we got to these, I'm thinking about it, like, okay, how we were filming.

By the time we got to any place, Ramona would have every restaurant, every restaurant owner, every nightclub, every contact that she, like, owned it. Like, she's remarkable like that. And there wasn't a time that we would stop filming that she then wouldn't go out. It's so, that's amazing. I'm like, oh, my God, it's 1130. We've been filming since I say, I'm going to go out. I was talking to Joe, and he's very excited about us coming. So I'm like, all right.

So that's what people don't realize. When the cameras went off, we were still sort of all together. I think there was one time when Bethany, I think, or someone released the tapes of us after the cameras went off, and it was Halloween, and we were on the pool table. And people were like, now, why aren't we part of that? Because we really did stay awake with each other all. We were, you know what it was like, I think it's because we come from that college era where we all hung out and sororities and stuff. For us, it was like we were back on spring break again. And we were making money, you know what I mean? And being loved generally. Generally. The, it seemed like the, the, the, this, we were just ourselves. Like, it seemed like it would bug you when say, like, it's the morning. You've all just woken up and like, Tinsley walks in full glam. And you're like, how are you already so made up? Well, Tinsie went to sleep with full glam. Like, I think she just would, like, she would keep her eyelashes on. And, and. everything. Tinsley was always perfect. Wow.

Yeah. That's her arrow, but I think that's a, but she would, she would go to sleep with her eyelashes and stuff. And she was much more, even in her, when you see her filming, she was always very well put together. We were put together well, but, you know, we had, we, it wasn't a huge concern. Like, if we weren't cast partying at or stuff, you kind of came into our lives and saw what we really wore.

Right. Well, it just seems like you were less concerned, which is what made it good TV. We weren't concerned. Well, because it was, there's, I think that, like, one way in which what's happened in reality TV has sort of come over to politics is, uh, and Trump says this kind of thing all the time, which is, uh, it's great to be loved. Uh, it's fine to be hated. The only thing you can't be is boring. I agree. And, you know, we talked to. I can't believe I'm agreeing with that, but okay. I know. That's going to be the first time. I hope we'll see if it's the last. But the, uh, that we talked to Sarah McBride, who is a congressperson from, from Delaware. And she said, Some of my colleagues are treating me the way they treat me because they want attention. They want to employ the strategies of Bravo TV to get attention in a body of 435 people. And the way to do that is to pick a fight with someone and throw wine in their face. She might be correct.

Well, where the current day we live in, she just might be correct. And we're seeing it happen over and over again. And sadly, I don't like it, but there is effectiveness in that. Yeah, like that must be something you feel when you watch politics now. A hundred percent. like deja vu. Like, oh, wow, that's a move I saw Ramona pull. Yeah. And I think, you know, I think all things in life are kind of political. Marriages can be political. Reality TV can be political. I mean, there's a lot of things in life where people can apply strategy. And I don't think this is any

different, right? And for us to think that politics, I mean, I think if anything in the current age we're living like it or not, and, you know, whatever your opinion is, you do what you want. But it is a learning curve that it wasn't all that it seems. Like, it is a lot of, of movement and jiggering and and game playing and stuff or at least that's been my experience watching it because maybe because I grew up in an era with the 6 o'clock news was your only knowledge and now you see that there's a lot of other stuff that goes on that is unfortunately or fortunately very reality TV like well because part of it's about attention yeah it's about getting attention and Trump figure that out people like marjorie taylor green have figured that out so and you can't

take your eyes off it for good or for bad you're like what You know, so reaction is reaction. Yeah. No one survives on reality TV if they're dull. Right. Well, and also... Dull is the kiss of death. And the other part of it, too, and I think about watching.

No, two things, not to interrupt it. You can't be dull and you can't be inauthentic. And you can't lie. Because if you lie, boy, one of us will figure it out. We're the grim keepers when it comes to that. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. Love it or Leave It brought you by Honey Love.

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That's right. They're trying to, they have an idea of who they want to be on the show. And it's interesting, both in reality TV and modern politics, that doesn't fly. Like, the truth will out. Even if it takes a while. Yeah. You know, I always, someone said to me a while ago, well, she's, her first season's great. She's going to be a great reality.

So I said, oh, the first season's nothing. That is just when you're slowly, every, they, they, you know, you're vetted to be the new one. And there's a mad love affair that happens. the second season is where the tire hits the tar because that's when they either produce and start peeling that onion or the audience starts to get bored of it because the imperfections will be as an interesting as interesting to the audience as the perfections well also and that's the difficult part that's the rub and you've already there's i think i imagine going through watching yourself seeing the talking heads seeing the online reaction seeing the edit and then

doing it again and not and not trying to kind of be risk averse must be very difficult not trying to be risk averse or you know being willing to do what you've done you know what's so interesting about this you're overthinking how much we thought about it okay that's that's that's the problem why it's difficult to answer this because you're applying things that we just we would literally end filming and go back to our normal lives like and not really think about it until they were like, you start press next week. And then you went through that, then we would put our workouts on again

and go through the process and mourn it, be horrified, be happy, be thrilled. I say it's like, what would I? It's like belonging to the NFL, okay? You get on the field, you beat each other to the pulp, you do great passes, you do bad passes, you're frustrated, you're happy, you're high-fiving, you're like, what the F?

And then you get off, and that night you're having dinner, chatting each other and saying hi-five. It's like spring trainings in six months. So let's have some fun until spring training. It's a little bit like that. And I think that's what makes a great reality start. You have to be able to be strong enough to, well, I think the relationships have to be strong

enough to cycle through it and understand what you're doing. Yeah. Because if you don't, it'll kill you internally. And you see that happening to people. They just can't not take it on. And they eat it, they drink it, they sleep. I remember Hannah said to me one day after I'd finished filming and we were at Bergdor shopping. And someone said, oh, my God, it's during.

She goes, no, we're not doing that Durinda Metley thing from the house rights, right? We're back to normal again for a couple months, right? You promised me, Mom? And I was like, yes, I am. Yeah, because I don't want to do that now. You promised it doesn't start again until September. I said, okay. So we were very good.

And that's an art form in itself to transition back and be able to wake up the next morning and be like, well, I guess there's not a car service waiting for me. And back to reality, I've got to go wash my dishes and I'm on the dishwasher. You know what I mean? Yeah, well, I bet you may not have overthought it. I overthink everything for the record. But I mentioned people that have struggled on these shows have been doing some overthinking. And also, too, that stakes are much higher now.

I mean, we're seeing people go to jail. We're seeing people doing this, all these things that I, you know. But again, I go back to this. It's not that I don't have empathy or sympathy. It's that you kind of sign the kind of. contract. So I remember someone said to me right before I started Housewives, one of the final things that they said, now remember, if you're going to do this, do you have any skeletons in your closet? Because all your skeletons will come out eventually. So you've got to be prepared for that. And I remember thinking about that thing. What would be the most embarrassing thing that could come out about me? And I was like, I think I'm good. I will own up to all of them. And I pay my taxes. I think we're going to be okay. You know, I pay my markets, I pay my taxes, you got to pay your taxes. And I haven't been in a sex scandal or I've never set a dirty video.

So I think we're okay. So if, let's say, Pete Buttigieg or another Democratic candidate told you he's about to shoot the Real Housewives of D.C. And he's going to be joining the cast with Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor Green and J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio. And you're trying to advise this person. And you're there kind of confidant. They're about to go into battle in high heels, not Pete in high heels, but you know, what's your, how would you, if you were thinking about politics as a reality show, what would be your advice for how to kind of go into taping and win? That one's tough because that would be a tough one because you'd have to, I think someone like him would have to rethink his whole strategy. I mean, that is a sink or swim.

Yeah, yeah. It's either, you know, beat him or join him at that point. point depending if you want to stay that's the problem that's the problem if you want to stay on tv i think you're going to have to or maybe i would say probably pretend like you're joining them and then throw in the axe at the end collect collect information create an environment where they get very comfortable with you and they're exposing too much but at the same time be the skull collector and then at the end in the reunion just like slam that shit we need an insider we need somebody we need somebody to get inside, you know, I went back and looked. But that would be, you know, he probably

wouldn't make a second season because, well, what would we do? And probably, to be honest with you, J.D. Vance, and those people would be great reality stars. I'd watch it. Well, that's the problem. That's the problem. Who do you see out there that would be a good democratic reality star? Who's the person that's built for this moment to you? You think, oh, wow, that's a person who would be a great housewife. See, this is the problem. Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris. That's a good one that she could do it. I think she's a character. And I think she's fun. And I would wish we saw more one more of that because she's actually brilliantly smart number one she was a prosecutor for a year so you can imagine the skills that she has i mean you need those good

prosecution skills when you're executing it through housewives and uh she has a quiet greatness about her that would create both mystery and fear do you think that she has at times made a mistake that housewives have made about trying to my god you're going to get me in trouble politically Like, gosh. It's just us. Yeah, exactly. That's how it all begins. That's how it all begins.

But no, but that, like, there's a, that maybe she was a little bit held back, a little bit afraid to be her full self. And people sense that? The woman had no time. Right. I mean, that was just, I just thought the whole thing was, you know, she just had no time. I, I, what did we have? Six months, you know what I mean? Less, three months, three months.

I mean, I think considering the time she had, that was a very difficult thing to do, even coming into it probably getting that call she was like oh my god there wasn't a lot of preparation for that and let's face it those people are usually groomed for what two or three years beforehand so that alone in a it was a feat to watch you know i went back and looked and i don't want to be political but you know yeah uh i went back oh do i do be political uh i went back and looked and i found because i was hillary clinton speechwriter oh my god so was my husband um with with madeline albright in those early days. So there's years before me.

Yeah, yeah, of course. Well, I know that. No, no. He would be 72 now. I'm not saying you're the... But I went back... That's impressive. I was very overwhelmed

and I was not qualified. That's a hard job. It was a really hard job. And I developed a kind of twitch in my nose for a while. Because I was 23, I was 23, 22 when I got the job. Oh, my God.

I was completely in over my head. But I went back and pulled her old calendars. And there it was in 2006, fundraiser Hillary Clinton, Richard and Durinda meddling. Yes. And so you did a fundraiser at your townhouse. Yeah, on the Upper East Side.

Well, they were very close, and so was when Madeline Albright was a very good friends. You know, but even that's so interesting is that back then when Richard was involved with the D&A and the Council Formulation and all that Richard Haas and all them, all of them, all of a kind of Lee's rights, it was much more of a bipartisan thing. Although you were loyal to your parties and worked very hard for your parties, like you'd go to the Council Formulations and the bipartisan thing is really was such an incredible think tank. There wasn't that sort of, you know, sort of, you're

either a Republican or Democrat. Now, they were much more open about speaking and learning from each other than it is now. I kind of miss that, right? No, it is. Well, you feel that in the show, right? Because there was something about 2016. Oh, my God, I can't believe you found that in the calendar. Dennis.

Dennis. What's his name? Yeah, Dennis Chang. Jonas Chang raised that. And that's so weird that we remember these things. Absolutely. But you're right. that politics feels more fraught in part, I think, because... So separated.

It's separated. But also because Republicans have got become... The Trump Republicans have become so extreme that it starts to intrude on real housewives. Well, it starts to intrude about creativity. Because people, you either are one or the other. And part of those kind of bipartisan think tanks like the council or whatever was an ability to... I remember Richard used to have big, huge talks. with Trump, you know, Jr., not Trump, Bush Jr.

And, like, he could come over, and he just found him, even though he, you know, was one party in Richard was that, they just learned so much from each other, especially during, remember, I come through the time when they were dealing with Saddam Hussein and they were dealing with bin Laden. You know, there would literally be think tanks in my garden with all of them, Colonel Powell, all of them.

Wow. And then these wacky characters that I wasn't, you know, know, Richard would you be like, why don't you not come down? Because so-and-so was coming. They were the wacky carers. You know them. They don't look like they're anything, but you certainly don't want to wrong them. And I remember one of them, I was in the kitchen with one.

He says to me, you know, the best thing about coming here is having a piece of lasagna. I was like, well, are you going to kill me now? You know, because they were like that, you know. They were personalityless, but crucial to this sort of, you know, and then that's when you would have all the great thinkers, people that, I don't know, you would even think of now. would literally openly talk about, I think about it now as like a person, I was just like, oh my God, I got to go grocery shopping because they're having a, I think take thing in the garden today, I'm going to make something really nice, you know what I mean? But when I think about that now, in retrospect, in the learning curve for me, and especially

when I talk to Hannah or even Richard's kids, it's very embroidered in who they are because politics were a much different thing back then. They weren't scary. You were something, everybody could be involved in without getting stuck on one side or the other, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know, said the other day... God, that's wild

that you found that calendar. There it was. I was like, oh my God, I might have... And you know who was at that? That was Desmond 2, too. Wow. Which is amazing. And then I remember when they had...

One night he had Nelson Mandela stopped by the house, and I was literally in the living room and he just came from... I think they were at the Regents because he used to stay at the Regency, right? And that were all the politicians state. And he brought him over for like 10 minutes.

And I was like, wow, this is really a moment. Because she goes, in that world, as big as it is, it's very tiny back then. Because they had their clubs. You know what I mean? Their clubs had meant that they would move around him. What if you think I have a picture of it somewhere. I should find that.

I kind of forgot about all that stuff. That was another life. I had to let go. Do you think Nelson Mandela saw Luana at the bar at the regency? I do remember being in an elevator. to a Netanyahu and all security guards and thinking, that guy's kind of cute, who is he? Which is like, come on

now, Jordan. I was, I really did. I didn't know who he was. That is a true story. They were closing the thing. I'm like, Richard, we can fit in. So we get in. And it was Netanyahu, and he swelled me. He said, hello, are you? I really didn't know who he was. I know I'm probably going to get a lot of shit about that. But remember, it was

like 20 years ago, and I was much younger and more interested in fashion than politics. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of love it or leave it coming up. Love to leave it brought to you by Mint Mobile. Most holiday gifts end up in a drawer or the back of your closet where I accident and I left at your cousin's house. Not this one. Mint Mobile is offering unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month. That's the best deal of the year, aka the only holiday gift you'll actually use every single day. Mint Mobile's best deal of the year

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wireless for $15 for month, shop mint unlimited plans at mintmobile.com slash love it. That's mintmobile.com slash love it. Limited time offer. Up front payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12 month plan required $15 a month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra initial plan term only more than 35 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. Capable device required availability speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. Speaking of politics, so Ramona post this picture of her with Daniel Penny, and you replied beneath it, oh, Ramona, you look great.

Yes, I did. And I stand by that. Well, she had, but then, like, everybody was like, holy shit. Why is Ramona posting this? Why is Ramona? No, people were wondering why I responded because I said she looks pretty. To tell you the truth, again, I am a number one. And Ryan can agree to this and everyone. I don't know again if it's just not my interest. I'm not a person that's always on Instagram. I just don't. do it. So I go to my main people, Luann, you look great. Romona, I miss you. So I didn't really, she's always with these Palm Beach characters. I didn't really know who it was. I know that's going to sound terrible. No, no. And I responded, Ramona looked pretty and I stand by it. I thought she looked very pretty. I don't know if anything about the person next film. Well, the reason it was. So people, when they asked me about it, and I'm a person that when you asked me about something,

I answer you. Yeah. Because if I didn't, if I, if I did it, I'll tell you why I did it. I'll tell you why I did it, even if it's a mistake. I was, so someone called me, said, or wrote to me, you know, right away, some people call from those numbers. They said, did you write this? I said, well, clearly, I did. It's on the Instagram. What are you asking me?

I don't understand the questions. He said, well, why did you say that? I said, because I thought she looked pretty. It's not that deep. It's not that deep. Yeah. But, but like, I think that's- Can I put that in print?

I said, well, it's already in print on Instagram. Just take a screenshot of it, and I'll put it on my own Instagram. I mean, I just don't, that's what I mean about social media. Everything now, and that's a bad thing. Everything now is torn apart, is like picked apart and over-analyzed. And I think ultimately not just for this, but for a lot of things for this generation, it really does take away from your ability to be creative and be free and maybe make mistakes. You know, we, for anyone to walk around, like they're so correct all the time,

it's just fucking boring. We're not. I make mistakes all the time. Ask Hannah Lynch. I mean, Hannah thinks I'm a walking, you know, Hannah's like, I'm so surprised at this point in your life you haven't been canceled or something because you do things that like, you know. How could this be can't be canceled? Uncancelable. Famous last words. Famous last words. It's not 1960 anymore. You know, so we make mistakes. And I think the best thing about making mistakes is just make it real simple. I made a mistake. Don't try to get a, don't hire a PR team. Don't try. Don't try. try to, like, hide away from it. Just say, uh, oh, oh, I made a mistake. Well, it does seem like, it seems like part of your, you know, that power, right, is that you know who you are, you know, creative who you are. And so people, and people already know you, so if you do say, you know what, I screwed up, people, people take that at face value.

Yeah, just like, I didn't know, thanks for telling me. I won't, won't happen again, you know, and I always say, I used to say on Houseface, if you're really in bad, someone would come to me and be like, I don't really know how to it's like, just cry. It works. It works with men. It'll work on housewife. Just go good tear. Get pulled over. Get pulled over. Cry. What do you, like, there's rumors that Ramona's going to run for office. No, there's not. That she's doing these photos. She's flirting a little bit with the MAGA stuff.

In Palm Beach? That's what I, that's what we're here. These are the rumors. I wouldn't put it past her. And you know what? She may win. That's the, no, I'd be scared to run against her. That's for sure. Literally, what people don't know about Ramona or maybe they do, she's brilliantly smart. And I consider myself a smart person. I can't say that about all the houseways, but she's very smart. She's very switched on. She's good. I consider myself very switched on financially, and we're always talking about post-tack dollars, and we're doing this, and are you going to put an LLC?

Like, we're really, I do, because I have money had. So, but Ramona will lay it out for you. The best thing to do, don't do an LLC. And if you, I'm like, okay, that's great. It's great. Hold on me call my accountant. If you need my accountant, she's very. Don't let it fool you, you know, don't let it fool you that she's, there's wacky person.

There's nothing wacky about. No, you can see that. And listen, she was part of an era where she was doing running data. Now, people probably don't even know this, but she was part of the first part of these discounters like whack daffies and T.J. Max and Marshalls and all these things that were just starting. And she sweeped up in the garment district. She was connected to everyone. and I worked in the Garment District at the time for Liz Claiborne.

I knew who she was because we would outsource all the stuff to her. Last thing, before we let you go, you didn't know what this show was. No, I didn't. No idea. But it's better like that.

But this is okay, right? It's beautiful. I'm good at this kind of stuff. I could be with you all day long. We're playing verbal combat. To me, this is like a date. I want to go over and kiss you. I would take you home.

This is the kind of date I like. Honestly, if I hadn't just gotten engaged, I just got engaged. And also, you're not my type. Gender-wise. Gender-wise. Gender-wise. Stunning, stunning woman. But I'm glad you cleaned it up there at the end. You got to clean it up. Got to keep it nice. Got to keep it nice. Well, Dorinda Medley. This has been so much fun. Everyone here is such a fan.

I do think that, like, we have... Yeah, thank you. It was really fun. I enjoyed it. And I learned a lot about myself. No, I'm not getting good. Well, no, I do think that there's something about... there's no one who has, I think, a better perspective on how politics has become like reality TV than someone who has gone to battle and won and done both. Yeah, you've lived in both worlds. In both worlds, yes, yes, yes. So, thank you for bringing up that thing.

It just took me down memory lane because in order to survive through all this stuff, I sort of place that time with Richard. You know what I mean? It makes you want to cry a little bit. So I appreciate you bringing that up. It's very sentimental to me because I was that person, you know? Well, you're still that person, aren't you? No, of course. But I think for survival's sake, you know, you have to sometimes compartmentize in order to.

But when you brought it up, I was like, God, I actually remember what I served at that dinner. It, like, took me back. So sorry about that, guys. But I think this is why people love you because there is this person right there. You're so tight. You know, I got within three inches of facing the toughness. And I said, well, I'm going to lock that cage back up. And you're back on my lap with me.

petting you. There you go. That's the art form right there, ladies. You want a husband? You want anything? You're not kidding you. Doreen to medley, everybody. If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on Instagram, TikTok, and all the other ones for original content, community events, and more. You can also find Love It or Leave It on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube exclusive content. And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review. Finally, you can join Crocids for

Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad-free Lovett or Leave It and Pod Save America episodes, subscriber-exclusive pods, and more, sign up at crooked.com slash friends. Lovett or Leave-It is a crooked media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett, and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our executive producer, Bill McGrath, and Caroline Restin are our producers, and Kennedy Hill is our associate producer. Hallie Keeper is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre, and Suba Argoal are our writers.

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