Lovett or Leave It - Lovett or Leave It Presents: Bravo, America! (with Dr. Terry Dubrow)

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

In our premiere episode, Lovett goes under the knife with Dr. Terry Dubrow, an icon of reality TV who has lived his life as a surgeon, husband, and father in front of the cameras on shows like Botched, The Swan and of course the Real Housewives of Orange County. You can see why Terry is considered one of the best dads and spouses in the Bravo Universe. And in this surprisingly open conversation, he also goes off on what he dreads most about filming Real Housewives, the ways housewives manufacture controversy to cling to fame, the risks of being a parent on television, and why he keeps coming back for more.  Oh, and Lovett also asks him, “What kind of plastic surgery should I get?” because of course he did.In this special limited series, Lovett sits down with reality icons who helped lead a hostile takeover not just of television, but of our culture. In intimate and revealing conversations, Lovett and his guests explore the ways these shows blur the line between authenticity and performance, the compromises of putting your life on television, the reality-TV-ification of our politics, and the secrets that don't make it on screen. What have reality stars learned about themselves, about television, and about America? And what happens to a society when the only thing worse than being hated is being boring? These are the questions we are trying to answer - either here, or at the reunion. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Were there ever moments where you felt like politics was unavoidable? I knew you would dive into politics at some point of this. Hey, everybody, it's John Lovett. Back in January of this year, something really big happened, which is I started watching The Real Housewives of New York. And if you're like me, you're binging reality TV after mainlining news all day. I've always loved reality TV. But the more I watched Real Housewives and a bunch of other shows in the Bravo universe, it became clearer to me how much reality TV changed television, but also how much it has changed basically everything.

It's obviously changed politics. John Favre and I talked to Sarah McBride about this. And here's what she said. Some of my colleagues are treating me the way they are treating me for a couple of reasons. One, it's because they want attention, right? They want to employ the strategies of a Bravo TV show to get attention. in a body of 435 people, and the way to do that is to pick a fight with someone and throw a wine in their face. Look, there are people who love reality TV, and there are people who say reality TV represents all that went wrong in our society. But the truth is, I don't care about that debate even a little bit. You think it's trash? I was just like you. But we've got to take off our white gloves and opera glasses and be for what's happening. And I genuinely believe that you cannot figure out how to win in politics if you do not understand the way Bethany won out over Jill

on real housewise. Trump gets this instinctively. Do your favorite Democrats? I don't think so. The way these shows blur the line between authenticity and performance, the ways in which being interesting and horrible can be more valuable than being decent and boring, the way the greats of reality TV wield drama like a sword, I am fascinated by it. So I'm sitting down with some of my favorite personalities from reality TV, and every conversation seeks to answer three big questions. What did they learn about reality TV? What did they learn about themselves? And what did they learn about this country? And trust me when I tell you, I was genuinely shocked by what some of these guests were willing to reveal. You don't want to miss these conversations.

This is Love It or Leave It Presents. Bravo, America. I'm so excited about our first episode. It's with Dr. Terry Dubrow. You know him from Botch. Botch Presents Plastic Surgery, Rewind, The Swan, which is very controversial. And, Of course, you see him with his wife, Heather Dubrow on the Real Housewives of Orange County. You can tell that Terry takes really seriously being a good husband and father, and he's excited to be doing his best work as a surgeon and helping people. He also goes off about how he and his family actually came to be on the Real Housewives. He talks about how Housewives cling to fame through controversy and how that's a necessary

evil in order to stay relevant. He acknowledges the tradeoff he made by staying in the spotlight to enjoy his own fame. and platform, which he says he's now committed to using only for good. I also was genuinely interested in what it's like to be a doctor on television and the ethics of that and the compromises of that and what he's learned about that over a long career of being a renowned physician and somebody who is practicing medicine with patients in front of the camera. He's funny.

He's honest. He's thoughtful. Please enjoy this conversation with Dr. Terry Dubrow. Thank you for being here. Nice to meet you. Dr. Terry Dubrow. Can I call you Terry during this conversation? Okay. All right. So first of all, I just want to kick things off. Let me tell you what I've done. All right. I've got three hair transplants. Looks good. Pretty good, right? You would have known. I should have asked you to guess. I would have said a little Botox of the forehead. That's all I would have said. Really? That's so nice of you to say. I haven't. I guess like a long

time ago. I did it like once or twice. It's worn off. It's worn off. Right, but okay, great. Well, you're young. How old do you think I am? You know, that puts me in a funny position because I have to take my, the age that I actually think you are, then subtract four to be, to be kind, right? To be polite. Right. So I'm going to say you're 34.

Wow, he got it. Right on the money. I'm 43. Okay, you look great. Pretty good. But see, but then I got to take another four off because you told me about the first four. But even then I'm still in the money. Right.

Right. I thought you were 38. Great. I'll take it. I want to start by talking about what you've learned about reality TV. What was your conception of it before you were a part of it? Well, my journey into it was born out of sort of an effort to, it was 2007 and 8, the global financial crisis. and I was a plastic surgeon and business just died. Yeah. It was over. And I was a very busy plastic surgeon because I had done a reality show in 2003 and

four called The Swan. And that just happened accidentally. And that was sort of before I think reality TV was where it is today. It's changed a lot. But in 2007 and 8, business went away and I said, what should I do to increase my business? I know I'll put my wife on television because I have a wife who was kind of a well-known actress for a while

and then she had four kids. It was not on TV anymore. So I started pitching her around town with her friends to do a restaurant television show. And everyone was interested in doing this show, these beautiful women wealthy in Newport Beach. And then as the final meeting, took. I took a meeting with Evolution, a guy named Alex Baskin, and I said, hey, so this

restaurant show, these women are going to fail. It'll be funny. They're beautiful. Every one of their husbands is a sort of captain of their industry, and it'll be a funny reality TV disaster. And he said, that sounds great. How'd you like to incubate that show on the Real Housewives of Orange County? And I said, I don't think I could sell that to my wife, because that would be the final nail in the coffin of her TV career. So I went down. and she said long story short she said absolutely not would never do that terrible reality show and so i called alex basketback and i said she'll do it and so for like the next two weeks i sort of strung him along and finally i got her to do it and we put our family on the on the show

and my kids grew up on the real housewives of orange county but it changed everything all of a sudden overnight, we were famous. You know, I mean, within three episodes, you walk into a restaurant, everyone knows who you are. That happened to me on The Swan, because we were on after American Idol. It was a big makeover show. No, I remember.

I remember. Yeah, but that show lasted two years, and then the sort of 15 minutes of fame, was more of 12 minutes of fame, sort of went away. And it changed everything. If you're asking me, how did it change me? I'm more like you you so you do the swan yeah and it's a controversial show very and you've even

expressed some kind of regret about it yes widely considered the worst reality show of all time oh I think it's a tough category it's up there but I don't think it's I mean there's been some real garbage I did one worse called bridalplasty oh what was that I don't even know that only went one season where we took brides uh moved them into a house and each week they competed in wedding were related challenges and if they won they could have a plastic surgery operation for me and then ultimately yeah it's getting worse wait it gets worse and then ultimately um the winner could have a full makeover head to toe but the catch was if you didn't win you got kicked out and shana mokler would say you'll still get married your wedding just won't be perfect and then the winner then would

show up to this elaborate wedding that the network threw for you but the catch was your fiance They couldn't see you until the veil was lifted. Oh, classic. Yeah, so that's the worst reality show of all time. I did that one, bridalplasty. Right, so, and have you learned to be more discerning? Yes. Yes.

So, you know, you're in medical school. You're learning about where the veins go and so forth. This wasn't what you thought. This is why I'm asking. This is what you thought you were going to be doing. You didn't imagine you're going to be on television. No, I never imagined. I grew up in a weird sort of celebrity-adjacent world.

My brother, my older brother, three years older, I was a good student, so I stayed in school. My brother wanted to be a rock star, and with very little talent and a very strong will, he basically made himself a rock star, and he became, he had a number one album in 1984. He was the lead singer of Quiet Riot, and he couldn't sing. That was the irony of it. And he just made it happen. So I grew up in an environment with my brother. We actually thought anything was possible, right?

But for me, I didn't think, you know, being on television, being famous, being known was a thing. I just wanted to be, in my era, you wanted to be a superhero. That was the goal. The goal was like to get special skills. Because everybody, if you think about it, everybody up until reality TV, who's famous, has a super. you have a superpower right you do if you think about it you're you're very very very good at some things right yeah sure very very good like better than and and you were recognized that you were hired for that skill appreciate that but you know that's true right i'm being falsely modest

that's part of my brand yeah okay so everybody all the best people had a superpower so for me having a superpower is becoming a surgeon and now you You know, with reality TV, it's like the democratization of fame. Anybody can be famous. You don't have to have a superpower. You don't have to be super skilled, super good looking, super talented. You just, it's better to just be famous for any reason. And now the main reasons people are famous is because they're sort of super villains on reality TV.

Yes. It's interesting to hear you talk about it in such a kind of clinical way because you're also a part. of it right because you've now done like you know the the swan was part of this kind of generation of reality shows and it's been over a while but that kind of sensational sensational dramatic people ordinary people in wild circumstances i include like i honest i include hoarders in that list my 600 pound life biggest loser right and there were a lot of people that were extremely critical of that era of reality TV. Meanwhile, alongside of it are these competition shows.

Swan was kind of a competition show. But then there's this generation of the Real Housewives style shows that are not competitive, that are about the dramas of these sort of fancy kinds of people, and you're a part of that too. Yeah, so on Housewives,

it's conflict and resolution. And unfortunately, you know, I'm a part of it, but it's really all about instead of having a superpower doing super good it's it's to a certain degree the jerry springerification of the world and it's a lot about hate and it's spreading hate to a certain degree and the more and whatever it takes to maintain and keep your fame because that's the big goal stay famous stay on TV it's more important um to

stay on TV than it actually is to get on TV for people in reality TV means very exciting oh if I got a reality show that'd be great but once you get it oh my God I just can't I have to have it it's like that horrible boyfriend or girlfriend you had that you can't stand but you can't live without they all hate being on that show every single one of them really yeah do you hate being on that show or housewives yeah oh by the way I my my wife say you have to fill I go, I'm not filming. Yeah, but this began by you describing how you forced your wife to do this. So I understand you sound like a, like you, this is something that happened to you.

Like you got hit like a like a second reality TV show has hit Terry Dubrow. But like you, you saw this out. You like being famous. Um, you like being famous. Oh, okay, by the way, I totally love being famous. Right. Okay, so let's just cut right to the, let's cut, cut to it. Chase there.

I love being famous. I love the, the reality TV fame is the best. fame of all. It's better than Tom Cruise fame. It's better than Brad Pitt fame because everybody's really nice to you. You can go anywhere and nobody's going to overly bug you. It's like being the high school quarterback. You walk down the oh, hey, Terry, hey, Terry, hey, Terry, hey, everybody's really, really nice to me. Okay, so the fame part of being on a reality show is really nice, okay but being on the housewives is a special kind of fame where you pay a price for it and if you talk to most of the housewives they would say oh i can't stand doing this they absolutely hate it

because if they don't fight if they don't lean into the conflict slash hate then they're gone now my wife is different my wife has been able to sort of stay on these reality shows without any hate at all. She's actually quite lovely. And so, unfortunately, because she doesn't have any hate and she won't fight and she's very sensitive, they attack her every year. And then Bravo comes with a gun to your head and demands you do the next year. No, they don't demand. It's like, oh my gosh, are they going to pick you for the next year? So you want to do it. I don't. See, well, let me tell you what happened to me. Okay. Tell me what happened to you. And I don't want to be ungrateful. No. Because I'm one of the most grateful people in the world.

Okay, I'm so lucky. I mean, I'm on television and look at this face for radio. Okay, so it's incredible. First of all, we're not going to, you're a handsome man and you know it. Okay, I appreciate you saying that. And you know what I appreciate it. But the point is, once I got botched, everything changed. Now, all of a sudden, I am a superhero.

Oh, you're back because you're using your skill. Because not only am I a surgeon on television, doing only good. I'm like a super surgeon because the show has allowed me to do the most difficult revisional plastic surgery literally in the world, cases that literally no one could do. No one, because they're not in the textbooks. You kind of have to invent procedures, and the way surgery works is you only get good at what you do all the time. No one in plastic surgery gets good at doing impossible cases every day because they're

few and far between. That's all I do. So in a very short period of time, I got the 10,000 hours of doing impossible cases. And now a case that used to be sort of can I possibly do that is really easy. A case that used to be impossible is routine. And now one that I probably shouldn't even try has a pretty good chance of success just because I've learned these skills. So it's taken me from this housewife reality show which is really difficult and painful and they hate it and they lose sleep the whole time to this is the greatest thing that's ever happened to me and i love doing it and i'm a hero on television so it goes back to originally when you became famous you became famous because you had a super skill you were a superhero you were super at something right yeah

Well, here it is. I get to live in the world that I sort of grew up in. Now I'm famous. Well, okay, I'm a husband on the Real Housewives of Orange County, but I'm the botched doctor. That's the way I see myself. When I walk into a restaurant, hey, Terry, the botched doctor is here. Even when they refer to me in the media, when we do something obnoxious and some article goes viral about something obnoxious that we did, botched Dr. Terry DeBrow. It rarely do they say husband of real housewives of Orange County, Heather Dubrow. So it's great. So then why do you keep going back to doing more housewives? You know, you're a wealthy man.

Yes. You have plenty of patience, right? Because I like being married to Heather Debrough. And she likes being on the real housewives. Well, you described it as being so painful and you're up at night. Yes, because if your partner, right, depends upon your participation and support in their career. And you suddenly say to them, I'm not doing that anymore. You're going to lose your partner. No, I completely understand. I guess what I'm trying to understand. I'm like genuinely,

not surprised, but I'm confused a little bit because why does Heather like doing the real housewives? Why does she want this? None of them like it. But you, Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of love it or leave it coming up. What is the exchange here? Oh, very clear. Okay. Fame, platform, opportunity. Uh-huh.

All of that. And what is the fame that comes from Real Housewives that is distinct from the misery and cost and embarrassment of Real Housewives? It's the duality of it. It's the simultaneouslyness of it. It's a trade-off. Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, you're a U.S. fighter and they all hate fighting every one of them hate doing the fighting they absolutely hate it but they do it because they're super good at it and they like the training and they're super skilled

and it makes them successful it's one of those careers where you know it just comes with the territory you do it so that you can keep doing it so that hopefully one day you can expand to something else if you're lucky and look what happened to me once i got unbatched the first season that i was unbatched and then simultaneously shooting housewise i sat there and i sat behind

i said i'm not shooting this because they're gonna me to look like an idiot i refuse because remember they have added power i know i know that i yeah yeah and so you can be they decide you're gonna have a bad season this season you know do you know that when you're filming it no you really don't you really because you know i went on

survivor and i did yes uh briefly and when i went on survivor part of it was i was having uh what i now realized was a midlife crisis but the the was the the real is what i was like you know what i've watched survivor since it first aired and i know that there's edits and i know that it's it's constructed but as far as a reality show goes there's an ethic to it and i trust it more than other shows i'm willing to push my chips forward that's right and let them i i trust myself i have good qualities and bad qualities, I'll put them on the ledger and let them add it up. And I felt okay about that. Is that not true of Housewives? Not true. Not true. You feel like you could come out the other side and have a story that comes out of it that is not recognizable. So the old sort of

rules of being on Housewives was no kids, no careers, right? And no lies. Can't make up stuff that's totally dangerous to people's careers or their kids or total untruths. All of that's thrown out the window. You can have a whole season based on a rumor about you that's completely untrue that becomes the storyline that expands and defines you. Oh, yeah. And they could say things about your kids. I mean, we have LGBTQ kids, okay?

And luckily, Bravo is a very LGBTQ-friendly network. but you know you're always riding the razor's edge because you know half the country hates you for that okay um and how are they going to edit you to like if they want if your kid wants to come out and you say we're not coming out on housewise who knows how they'll edit that and then they start sort of editing it in such a way that it's going to hurt them they don't you know you please don't do that And they go, well, we've already sort of cut that episode. So, and then other. There is a conversation.

There can be a conversation. There can be. There can be, but you don't have any power over that. You know, the other women are so desperate to stay on the show that they'll virtually almost do or say anything to have a storyline that allows them to have conflict and, um, controversial. and interesting at your expense. They don't, it's not that they don't care. They care enough about staying on the show that if there's something that could kind of really, really hurt you, even better, because that'll be more controversial.

And is there a conversation when the cameras aren't rolling where everyone kind of lowers their gloves and says, all's fair in the arena? I'm, you know, I know that was too far, but I'm a little worried. I'm not going to make it to next season. Or is it, does it become, even though it's performative, does it become a real conflict? So there used to be. There used to be that. But it's now changed to the fourth wall is completely broken down.

So they will bring in things that you said off camera to the media and interview that media person as to what you said. And that will become a storyline, even though they don't have that on film. Wow. And this could be. Yeah. Because you're being pretty hard on these ladies. Yeah. That's exciting.

No, I'm not being hard of these ladies. Well, not compared to what they would say. Yeah, no, I'm not being hard on any one of them individually. I'm talking about the whole, the franchise all over them. Not on Orange County Housewise. I like them all. Oh, wow. Now he likes the mall.

Well, okay, obviously I'm afraid of all of them. But so what I do to protect myself is, number one, I don't ever, ever watch the show. Really? I have no idea what's going on. That's cool. Only what I hear from my wife. I try not to look at the. X-Feed because the X-Feed is so mean right okay and I try not to look at sort of Google

articles about the show because they'll spin out on a topic that just go what what's going on and it's you have to protect yourself when you're on a reality show so this season for example one of the main storylines that I'm aware of is that one of the housewives spoke or didn't speak who knows who knows I don't care to a blogger who's not on the show at all

and then they said wow that was so wrong that that housewife may or may not have done that so what do they do they bring the blogger on the show yeah you got to get that blogger the blogger comes on the show the other housewife who

started this whole thing is popular and the blogger gets trashed and is almost canceled because of it because no one believes the blogger now. It spins out and it's I remember when the Kardashians went from they were being filmed and they never admitted that they were famous and they never left led the life on the Kardashians show itself of being famous. They were just Kardashians living this interesting life at their home with their kids

And now they just said, screw it. We're obviously the Kardashians. So the whole reality show is us being super famous, wealthy billionaire Kardashians. Housewives has done the same thing. You can actually talk about being a housewife on the housewife show while you're shooting the housewives. It's the weirdest sort of unraveling of unreality, reality that you could ever imagine. Yeah, it's an interesting trend, too, because it happens across all kinds. kinds of reality shows. It happened on Drag Race. It happens on Survivor, which is it's almost

like this inevitable part of it where at first it's people being filmed as part of a show. And then the next generation of people on it have watched the show. And having watched the show, they perform in the way they would like to have been on the show. And then the third generation are people who watch that. Yes. And it becomes this sort of circular loop of people who want to be on housewives to be like the people who wanted to be on housewives i always used to say what could happen if you could look at a crystal ball and see your future it would change your future by virtue of looking at it so it constantly changes you're looking at being on these shows it changes the nature of the shows one of the scenes in the trailer that heather was showing me for next week one of the

real housewife one of the housewives in the final scene of the trailer of what's coming up next she's at a restaurant and they're playing the theme song of real housewives of orange county she's going really i have to hear this right now too i mean the self-referential it's bizarre it's meta it's super meta so uh you have LGBT kids yeah and orange county real housewives considered the most conservative of the franchise. Those New York gals, they got Trump voter written all over. Right. What was that like?

And were there ever moments where you felt like politics was unavoidable? I knew you would dive into politics at some point of this. Yeah. It's, it was very tricky navigating that. We knew we're living in Orange County where there's a lot of homophobia. and where, you know, I remember when gay marriage was a thing, you were voting on it, and there would, you know, my next-door neighbor had a sign against gay marriage, right? Yeah.

And my best friend, who's a gifted surgeon, and I said to him, are you against gay marriage? He goes, yeah, yeah, pretty much I am. And I went, wow, you know, so the whole, everybody down there, not everyone, but it's a very difficult place to raise kids like that. So that was tough. And one of the reasons we moved up to Los Angeles is for that reason to provide a better, safer environment for all of them. So there's often a kind of tension, which is, and you'll see this on the show too, which is people say they're Republicans, but they're not anti-LGB, or they don't want to be seen as having a problem with a specific person because they know a gay person or their friends have. gay kids. And like, do you see that tension between people's kind of abstract politics and then a desire

to be seen as empathetic and compassionate and supportive of the people they know? I do, but I will tell you that certainly the women on the show are very sympathetic. And there may be some undertones of some of that that actually play out this season where there's some evidence online of some of this homophobia and then this person and it has to deny it or not. It becomes a whole thing, I understand. But I must say, you know, it's Bravo. And the most important thing you can do if your housewife is please Andy Cohen.

So the last thing you ever want to admit to is being homophobic. Because there's a gay kingpin at the top of this whole pyramid. Right. And so, you know, even the fired housewives are never anti-Andy Coeux. because they're always holding out the hope that they'll be asked back all of them. It's like the ring of power from Lord of the Rings.

True, but I will tell you, I don't think they're homophobic. I don't think, I think, I really don't think any of the housewives, to be honest with you, and I've met them all from all the franchises. This is probably naive of me. I don't think there's any homophobia among any of them. I really don't. First of all, they're women, their moms, and I, I know females can be as homophobic as men,

but they just seem so right, well, in my definition of right, when it comes to that. So I don't feel there's any homophobia in the Bravo universe. Maybe I'm being naive, but I don't feel it, certainly not in Orange County. The women are lovely when it comes to that regard. By the way, I like all the women. No, no, and you're on the record, and you're on the record.

No, no. What I'm saying is I actually literally live. really like them because I know that they're saying terrible things to my wife. I know that they're starting rumors and they're they're promulgating untruths about and best about us because we're the most successful. Wouldn't you love to see the DeBros go down because we're so this and we're so that, although we're very nice. That's an awesome storyline. But I don't know that. So when I shoot with them, what a dream for you. Yeah. I shoot and I go, hey, how are you? And they look at me like, oh, you don't know.

You don't know that I've been trashing you and your wife. You don't know that I said your wife was so unfunny, even though she was a comedic actress and she should never try to be a comedian. You know, and we're fighting about this. I go, I have no idea and I don't want to know. And so I shoot as little as I can. I think the last scene I was in, Heather threw a birthday party,

and we had like, she had like a weed bar. And I showed up and go, I can't believe I had to shoot real housewives of Orange County, kill me. What am I subject? I said, I'm going to get stoned. So I go over there and I'm like hitting and I'm hitting it again and hitting it again. And I'm stone.

I'm lit. And I go over to all the house by say, and of course, that's my scene. Yeah. The idiot stoner walking around going, nah. And so I spend more time when they're filming behind the camera. I'm in avoidance mode as much as possible. But the platform is the greatest platform in the world. No, no.

I'm not trying to bow down to Andy Cohen saying the power of being on the Housewives is so tremendous. I have, we have a giant multi-million dollar skincare line. We have a podcast. I have my, I have two TV shows. Two TV shows.

All right. Plastic Surgery Rewind, which is on Ian Peacock. Just premiering. It's like an eighth seventh episode when they're talking about season two, I don't know. And then we're going to do, you know, ridiculous how much wealth and fame and fun i have gotten it's been the greatest thing i think

it's me lisa vanderpump bethany frankl um those are the people who have benefited most from being on the housewives that's a that's a great uh i wonder who the fourth on that rushmore would be if people who have made the most of because there are people who have come on housewives and they've paid the price and gotten nothing from it many more than you know And by the way, so I don't know if you've ever been in love with someone who's above sort of your perceived pay grade in terms of wanting to date them. And you finally break them down and then they date you and you're in love and then they dump you. That's what the worst thing you can be is a first year housewife and get fired. Because you got to date the beauty queen, the quarterback, the A-list.

actor and they dumped you after five dates and and you hear the contradictions in the way you're describing this right like you hear how it's a nightmare and you dread it uh but it's the greatest thing that's ever happened to you did you ever have any concern you know you're you're considered to be someone in one of the best marriages in the housewise not a tough category to be honest but you're at bar low bar low bar but like this is a show that is it's hard to tell sometimes whether people have come on because it was like, this marriage is ending and I need a next act or the marriage was shaky and this show was not good for it.

Both. Both. But you're considered to be someone in a good marriage and that you're good parents and you put your children in this circumstance. It's got to be something you feel conflicted about. Very, particularly when they're in Orange County, LGBTQ, and you know that every week

you're going to be criticized and trash. for the things you're showing on the show that you're going to get massive hate but it's worth it this one is worth it because all of the kids in LGBTQ who feel you know different and are not accepted in their community we we show a world of which hey there's an inspiring successful loving family who embraces this community so they we think we they see us and go oh Okay, there is love out there for me, you know? We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of love it or leave it coming up. So, Terry, let me ask you this. What would you feel? Again, I'm not saying this judgment. I'm genuinely curious because if, let's say, 10 years from now, one of your kids says, you know, I've been struggling and I've been in therapy, And one of things that, like, I really needed to talk to you about is I'm a bit angry at you for putting me on a reality show when I was so young because I was too young to understand the implications.

And I wish that that choice hadn't been taken for me because now I'm known in a way otherwise wouldn't have been. So they're very sensitive to the way they sort of show kids, very, very sensitive. And they less so now, I mean, well, well, Well, you would never, if your kid had an eating disorder, for example, I think in the past, you wouldn't have sort of highlighted that because now they're labeled forever more on television as of having some kind of mental disorder, maybe, or eating disorder, and that may have defined them, and now it's their permanent stain on their record, okay? They'll do that now. Housewives will do that because it's interesting. And so, wow, I have to, interesting, maybe I get another

season but they wouldn't have shown it you said hey my kid has an eating disorder um but i don't want to talk about that of course the producers will say let's talk about it and go no we're not talking about that you and i just had a moment about something where you wanted to talk about something i go we're not talking about that we have that with them all the time they go well let's talk about this thing that you absolutely don't want to show when we look at them like are you high you know i don't want to talk about it i will kill you if you do that they go so Sorry, sorry, sorry, but they are always trying to push the envelope. But it's incumbent on you to set the boundary.

Yes, but you don't have enough, you don't have that much power. If you show it even a little too much, and then you decide that you don't want to show it, too late. Right. They'll show it. Well, there was a, because there was a part of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City where there was someone's son, clearly with some kind of substance abuse problem. And it becomes part of the show. And this is somebody that I believe was of age. But nevertheless, they're clearly going through something, and they're high on screen here.

And I don't know that I'm just, that was my observation of what it seemed to me to look like. And I remember seeing that and thinking, so wrong. It's wrong. And even if every person here is consenting, that person is clearly not in the best mindset and judgment. And this person is not necessarily thinking about what's in the best interest. They may convince themselves they are, but they're not thinking about what's ultimately the best interest of their kid. and yet this is happening on screen. Right, but it's like kind of, well, if they're of age,

it's kind of like asking the media back in the 90s, stop filming Charlie Sheen. Well, yes, I'm not even necessarily blaming. It's entertaining and it's exploitative. Exploitative, yeah. It's crazy and interesting. But I will tell you, so they have portrayed our kids really nicely on the show.

but I had one say to me recently and I wish I could tell you more details but I can't but one say to me recently hey I wish you wouldn't have let me do that thing when I was 14 and I go well here's the thing you wanted to do it at 13 and we said no

and then you terrorized us for a year until you were 14 and then you just did it in the middle of the scene. I know, but you shouldn't let me do it. I go, well, first of all, I wasn't even in that scene, and there was no stopping you. Right, but that's the risk of a kid being a kid when there are cameras rolling, isn't it?

It is, it is. And so that's the, but I will say, you know, as much as I am constantly mad at the producers and at the show in general, they do have, you know, a certain sensitivity that they won't break through. Yeah. You know, and there was a situation with one of my kids where they get the show about, I can't believe I'm saying.

Heather would kill me if I was saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway. They get the show about three days before the show comes out, and it was a really insensitive thing about my kids that they were going to disclose. that they my kid would absolutely go berserk it wasn't that they were x y or z or gender changing or anything like that it wasn't that heavy but it was just a very sensitive thing that we know they wouldn't want to be exposed and um we begged them to cut it out and you know the show was locked and you i know what that means and that's like a giant thing and they worked they worked some magic Yeah, locked is never really locked until it airs, yeah.

Yes. So they're very sensitive to kids. I mean, you know, when it comes to producers, I love them and I hate. Well, I love them all. They have a job. But I must say, I have very much PTSD when I walk into film a scene for Real Housewives Orange Canada. Well, can I go like this? Because here we go, because I am a physician.

Yeah. I am a surgeon. You're a serious person with serious skills. Let me tell you a quick story. I don't want to take too much. Let me tell you a quick story, all right. It goes as long as you want. All right.

Well, if it's boring, we'll cut it. This is not boring. I do botched. Okay, it's an immediate giant hit on E. So much so they like pick up seasons two and three by what time we're on the fifth episode. Fabulous. I get to be here on TV. This is the greatest thing ever I'm doing fabulous superhero plastic surgery.

I love it. the next season botches is the number one show well number two show because Kardashians was one number one two show on e we come on housewives with a new housewife that we bring on

that we bring on a friend of heathers this beautiful girl lovely wealthy would have been a perfect housewife potentially I don't know if she was willing to expose and go nuts you know and fight with everybody that remain to be seen

but she comes on and as it turns out unknown to me 20 years earlier I operated on her and she sued me and it was 20 years later she looked very different she was very nice and she naively thought that they wouldn't know but of course all of the other housewives knew and the producers knew and so this is going to be Awesome. We're going to blow up the DeBros with this new housewife. So we throw the first all housewife party at my house hosted by. And by way, when hosted by it, we pay for it. Just so you know. Really? Yeah. Really? Oh, they give you like, here's, here's a thousand dollars. Now go throw your $40,000 party. Is that true for trips to or trips they pay for? No, trip they pay for. But you still, I mean, you know, my wife. You're accustomed to a lifestyle. My wife flies private. Yeah, we're not. Yeah. And just to fight with them to fly private. it because they want her on the main commercial thing but you know whatever um so here's the first party and 35,000 dollars of sushi no boo's there and they walk in and all of a sudden it's like

the producers go and go to one of the housewives she goes so there's something i need to talk to you about wow you know that new housewife she sued terry for malpractice and my wife went it was like, you know, being this, she said, oh my God, they're going to blow up a malpractice lawsuit against my husband on the beginning of this season. And that's bad for me. Yeah, because it's going to be covered on TMZ. It's going to be blown out. There'll be exaggerations about it. It was quickly dropped. Nothing happened. Okay. It occurred 20 years earlier. And, she caught i wasn't in that party i was upstairs i didn't want to be involved because i'm on bots i don't want to film this show anymore no no you're you're you're the botch guy she's just saying you're

filming this show you know i have to show my families you're doing this sale fine five but not this one she said you can not she calls me down and i look at the executive producer and i go are you can't do whatever you want fucking kidding me i'm the hero on the you're other old same production company I'm bringing in millions of dollars for you on my show and now you're going to trash me while I'm on your other show and so

I call the head people at the production company I go they go we didn't know about this and I go you're lying I know you knew about this you're because they'll lie and you were willing to blow me up while I'm a hero on your show

that's probably going to go 10 seasons which of course it has okay And they go, well, you know, you're on the housewives. And I went berserk. I still. But which is it, but that's a, it's a hard thing to hear, but it is true, right? You're being confronted by the truth you already know, which is these are not your friends. No one here is your friends.

They have not, they don't know how to have your interests at heart. Right. But it's about the money. It's about the money. It's about the money. But if you and I were in business together, okay, on this podcast, I was your co-host, right? And this podcast was huge and doing really, really well. So far, so far I'm with you.

Yeah, yeah, which it is. I know, you know, I know all about you. You're awesome. But, um, and then I suddenly produce a new show about you. And I decide, and it's a less, it's a lesser show. Right. Okay, this is your big, you know, so I decide on this show to trash you so you look terrible. Like, who's going to want you to operate on?

Right. Right. Anyway, you understand. I don't have to subscribe. I was. So to this day, my point is, I still have PTSD from that eight years ago. So when I walk in to shoot a scene and they're micing me up, I feel like I'm walking into the lion's den that, oh, my God, what's going to happen to me in this scene?

Yeah. What terrible things are they going to say about me? But now it's gotten worse because at least that was the truth. Now it's just a lot of lies. So there's like an old, like, truism about Hollywood, which is that in any room, the richest person's in charge. Yeah. And on Housewives,

you have people who are kind of clambering over each other for fame. Right. But there are some people who were phenomenally wealthy before and they make money through the show, but they don't need the money. And then there are people that do.

You at this point are not someone that needs to make another dollar for the rest of your life, I assume. Many times over. Many times over. Does that give you a power? No. No, it doesn't.

No. It doesn't. The fame is that. valuable because what at this point i don't work for money at all i don't even care i actually said to this person's thing about doing this other show i go i don't care what you pay me i want to do that show i wanted to sort of do an anthony bourdain of beauty where i go around the world parts unknown and look at beauty cultures all over and be the voiceover but unfortunately i'm not anthony bourdain i don't look like him i'm not a storyteller like him but anyway

But what kind of a breast lift could he have done? Probably not great. So you're fine. But it would have been a fun show to do. So it's the, we have this platform. We do a lot of good. We really do. And people like to hear our stories.

And we're in a new phase of our career where we get to do all this incredibly cool stuff. I want to do more of it. And I want to do more good. And it's just wonderful. You know, Plast surgery, I can do one patient at a time. This we can help. millions of LGBTQ kids. I'm a health, wellness, and beauty, longevity expert.

I just got certified by the American Board of Obesity Medicine. So I talk about these GLP1 drugs and Fox News and all in ABC News. I have a lot to say and a lot to share, and I want to keep doing that. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. You've been talking about GLP-1s.

I'm on Monjaro. I am too. Incredible. Greatest drug ever. Amazing. The best. Amazing. There was a shortage for a while and it was like, get out of my way, diabetics.

Right. I'm trying to quiet the food noise. By the way, it was better when there was a shortage. You know why it was legal for the compounding pharmacies to make it. Is that not true anymore? The rule is when you have a new drug that's FDA-approved, for the first five years, unless there's a shortage, pharmacies can't compound it.

Because obviously you want to encourage these drug companies to spend billions to create these new drugs. But as soon as they create them, if they're just being ripped off, they'll not do it anymore. So they're protected. That's the way it works. So the combating pharmacies could make it during the shortage.

But now we're five years, because they're still doing it now. There's still compounding, but it's illegal. Is it really? Interesting, interesting. So there's a way in which sort of botched, this was true of the swan but but that like you're helping people and you're showing people who have had bad work done and kind of kind of cautionary tales but like i've felt this conflict and by the way i'm

someone that consumes this so it's that that part of it is watching these people be helps but part of it also there is a gawking element right people who have done these terrible things to their own faces who had lost touch with reality do you ever feel that conflict there that like you're helping someone but also there's a little bit of an element of exploitation because people are enjoying, enjoying watching someone having done something wrong. Watch the traffic action. Yeah.

So I feel when you watch botched, I don't care through what lens. We are incredibly sensitive and kind to these patients. Yeah. And we're sensitive and kind to the doctors who operated on them. Because most of them, they just had a complication. It wasn't really there necessarily. fault they did it right just went badly because that's what happens because it's surgery yeah and we don't make fun of anybody on the show we're very very sensitive and the producers this isn't

these are not the housewife producers okay they said to me first season they go terry we want your personality want you to be terry de bro because i'm a little silly and crazy and you can ride the razor's edge they called it and we will never make you look like this they would on housewise. As a words, feel free to be yourself, because don't worry about the edit, will help you in the backside. So be loose.

So I'm not going to disagree with you. You think we exploit people and we're insensitive on botch. Well, I'm going to respectfully massively disagree with you, but I won't be upset about it. I don't, that is not what I don't think, I think that is absolutely true. This is,

I think this is the question I have about these shows more broadly. I think your show, other shows, like even shows like my 600 pound line, like these shows are, sensitive in their language, but there is a fundamental insensitivity in showing people that are being gawked at because of the extreme nature of their situations. It's true, but you have to, in order to be successful, let's just, the fundamentals of being successful on television has to be

entertaining and interesting. Yeah. And if it isn't entertaining and interesting, it's not a TV show, so you'll never get to show it. So there is a basic gawking nature. to someone's had a disaster and we're gonna every movie there's a disaster every story arc has a if you don't have it it is a boring story that no one's ever going to watch and no one will ever be exposed to so if you're interested in doing a tv show it has to be interesting and i don't think a show about someone coming in with a small bump on their nose and just we took it off and it was successful and aren't you happy but botch is not exploitative it's caution it's wonderful and look we have an a story a B story a C story yeah the C story is someone who

are not going to operate on who has had way too much plastic surgery and they come on to show it and then they ask us a question we go you know we're not going to do that for you and we'll tell you why and they go okay and you know they have 10 million Instagram followers based on having the world's biggest breasts yeah I saw those yeah and if we were to ever cut anything out we would cut that out of the show, except that's one of the reasons people pay attention to the show. They watch it, right? I mean, you don't watch the TV show ER to see them treating colds or the pit.

Oh, you have a bruise in your elbow. Here's some Advil and let's wrap it. No, you want to see massive car accidents, trauma, and show what the life is. But this is, we're showing a part of life that people aren't aware of. There was a character on ER that was a mean surgeon, and his hand got cut off by the blade of a helicopter, and then he spent years recovering and becoming a better person until a helicopter fell on him and ultimately killed him years later.

So that's what happened on ER. One thing that about Bouch, though, is you see people coming in that have been kind of taken these beauty standards to the extreme. And now you're doing Bosch Rewind, where you have celebrities who have, in some sense, done the same. And they regret it. And they regret it, and they regret it. You know, one thing, like, I think about this with, like, computer graphics that one of the

limitations to making a beautiful tree is technical, graphical processing power. But some of it is you have to understand a tree and know what makes it beautiful. That's right. What have you learned in your years of doing plastic surgery? What has evolved in you about what, forget technique, creativity, artistry, about, like, what makes a face beautiful? well there's technical aspects to that that are defined you know facial proportions the golden triangles things like that that we try to apply scientific and mathematical principles to figure out

what makes a person beautiful at the end of the day they don't really work okay and why is Tom Cruise so good looking. When you look at his nose and his ears and his teeth and on anyone else, just slightly alter them. He wouldn't be Tom Cruise. He wouldn't be this unbelievable looking human being. Brad Pitt, Brad Pitt is classically perfect. Let's be honest. But beauty, you know, is very hard to understand. I mean, in plastic surgery, the big goal now is just, and it's been, by the way, reality TV has really changed plastic surgery and has made it much more transparent in reality stars and A-list actors are now talking about their plastic surgery.

But what I, what we used to try to do is give sort of these looks and these changes to the face that we thought made people classically beautiful. And there was a period of time where celebrities were looking very weird and it ruined their career. So we were wrong. Yeah. So now we're just trying to make you look. like the best version of yourself.

So whatever it is about you that sort of detracts from your perceived most important feelings about your looks or what you might ask is, how can I become better looking? We try to change those things. But it used to be raise the brows and everybody, make the cheeks bigger, really tighten up the neck, pin the ears back, all of the classic stuff. realized over the years that's not where beauty is beauty is just making you the best version of yourself i know i'm not exactly answering the question because you are because it's it's unfortunately not definable in the way which i mean you ai does a really good job of making someone making a beautiful

person because there are classic beautiful faces that ai just makes people look like right right well it averages a lot of faces yeah and it turns out that averaging a lot of faces produces a beautiful face it's like singing yeah why is it when the crowd sings at a rock concert it sounds in tune and so good but if you put the microphone to any one of the individual audience members but together it kind of yeah blends out the bad notes it it does yeah i remember when i went on manjarro i was actually i was talking to my therapist about it and uh she was like hey you have a terrible body image issue you look at yourself you hate what you see and if you go on manjaro and you lose a bunch of weight you may feel better about that but you're going to put all that

energy into something else and i remember saying i'll put most of it somewhere else but i think i'll still come out net positive even if i still get more obsessed with whatever skin some other problem i have with myself i'll still have solved this problem and i was right because i because it actually like you know what? Am I self-conscious about a bunch of stuff? Do I still have like intrusive thoughts about the way I look? Absolutely. But solving the weight issue actually just made my life better. Well, there's also another aspect about these gLP ones that people are not talking about. I'm the hugest fan. If you look at, if you Google me, I'm a giant fan of microdosing these drugs. Oh yeah? Not using them specifically for weight loss, but using them for whatever that

dopaminergic or that weird circular negative. pathway that's in your brain that gives you these intrusive thoughts, the food noise, the addiction, even schizophrenia, you know, all this sort of gambling, all of this sort of negative stuff, somehow, for some reason, it may have to do with sugar, it may have to do with the way it interacts with the hypothalamence of the brain. We really don't know, but it just calms all that noise. It's amazing. It's amazing. But even the body dysmorphia noise, I think it calms. Well, it makes me a better driver. And I like, don't it's really and i can't and part of it may just be that it turns out a huge amount of my

brain power discipline was going towards not eating a snickers i don't think so you think it's more than that i think it's way more than that because it's working for alcohol addiction it's working for gambling addiction it's it's clearly helping for um all sorts of mental disorders where there's a wiring issue it's just like turning down the gain yeah those things yeah and that's why i think it ultimately will be used, even thin people like you, or maybe you weren't thin, maybe you got thin from Mike from Manjaro. That's right. We'll just use it for those indications.

By the way, when you look, and these are articles in the New England General Medicine, you look at what it's being FDA approved for now. Oh, it was just FDA approved for metabolic associated fatty liver disease, for chronic kidney disease. It was just FDA approved for if you've had a heart attack to prevent post-19. myocardial cardiac complications so it's being approved for all sorts of things besides originally diabetes then obesity and now all these other reasons and clearly it's going to be for whatever ails you how nice is that a drug for everything but so but one of the reason i brought

that up though is because there's a tension right between people want to feel better about how they look they bring a lot to it this is on botch right these are people that have gone to the extreme That's what connects it for me. And yet we all kind of at the same time recognize that, hey, like there's something unhealthy about a society that pushes people to feel like they need to make these drastic changes to themselves, even if those changes in particular might help someone feel better. How do you think about that tension? But not, you don't mean regarding botched patients.

No, no, no, just people in general. People in general feel this pressure. They don't like how they look. They don't like they feel. They're driven to it by celebrity culture. Oh. And that's unhealthy. yet people want these changes that you help them make and make their lives make them more happier

with themselves right and that's made way worse by constant access to what you look like selfies instagram filters these portrayals of the new standard nobody actually looks like what they look like yeah on uh how do i i think it's horrible that we see ourselves all day long we're constantly taking selfies. We're constantly seeing the other persons living this most fabulous life that they're not really living and looking away that they're not really looking. It's terrible. I think it's a drag. So when patients come in, I mean, the good thing about being extraordinarily, I'm just going to say it, you know, successful and not having to do anything for money anymore is something clarifying about your honesty with it. You can be completely honest in

everything you do, particularly when it comes to plastic surgery. You tell people no. It's not only I tell them no, I say, the first thing I ask him, a guy, why are you coming in now for this? Yeah. What's going on? And plastic surgeons never do that because you know what you are to a plastic surgeon? You are a pre-op.

Yeah. Well, you're a houseboat. You know, you're like a yacht if you ever play your cards right. Yeah. Most 98% of plastic surgeons see you as, I need you on my table because I have a Beverly Hills office and it's expensive and my wife spending, you know, so on and so on. forth. Me, I go, why are you doing this? And I try to talk them out of it. I think they're doing it for the wrong reason, or if the risk is too high, or it's just not going to give them the result

they want. So there's also, I think, people lose touch with reality in part because of where they are. There's been a phenomenon that people call Mar-a-Lago face. Do you know this? Do you know about this? No, tell me. Which is that there's a kind of, like, for lack of a better term, Republican plastic surgery look yeah um and uh there are some men that do it there are some women that do it um but it's kind of an extreme look and like i well we have a couple we can show you an example or two and i don't want to single any one person out right uh though we will uh but but can we pull up one or two so that's christy gnome who has transformed her face there's other there's other examples of people kind of all kind of heading matt gates's faces change uh they've kind of heading towards

a specific, I don't know, like, arch extreme look. And I wonder, like, what causes that and, yeah, what leads people down that path? So when you look at me online about five years ago, I had too much Botox and too much filler in my face. And I looked a lot like what you're showing me. And it was just sort of this pillow, puffy face, zero. expression, no animation, you know, ability at all to the face. I looked very much like that. And people still, by the way, they still say I look like that, even though it's all worn off, by the way.

And when they would say that about me on X, oh, my God, he's had the worst plastic surgery. Look how much pill. You know what I said? You are, I said, you are so right. I had way too much filler. way too much Botox. I never, even a plastic surgeon

can be an idiot sometimes. So it's the more is better syndrome. And do you in that moment, because I think this happens, like, did you not see it? Did you not know in the moment? I think you probably didn't, right? You thought you looked good.

So, no. I didn't know. Well, I put in this stuff called sculpture that actually grows with time. So when it was initially put it, my buddy, who's a super expert at this sculpture thing, I was about, I was getting super fit, you know?

If you ever go to a Taylor, Taylor goes, you know, you're getting new clothes. You go, oh, well, you can make these a little smaller because I'm about to lose 15 pounds. I don't know if that's. Yeah, yeah, I've done that before. Right? So I said to him, I go, you know, I'm getting really shredded now. I'm going to the gym. I'm eating high protein and low carbs.

So I said, so my face is going to deflate. So give me some more in anticipation of that. He goes, I don't usually give this much. I go, dude, just give me some more. so he gave me some more and by the time I didn't lose the weight so by the time it grew and kicked in I looked weird

and it's it's online it's very funny and I the thing that I do which I think some of these are so smart right now they're just admitting to it so Chris Jenner comes out and goes I had a facelift I'm so happy

we all went oh well that's no fun we can't hate on her and bust her for having a facelift she gave it up And then other celebrities are going, I had one, too. I think that's great, though. I think it's great for them. Well, I think you don't think people should say, I think people should, I think the more people are removed the stigma.

In the same way people should talk about doing Manjar, there's this like kind of almost Calvinish notion that if it's not natural and innate and from born of hard work, it's not real. And it's like, you did work. That's great. Let people know that this is not something you can achieve by going to the gym and using SPF, right? Like, do you think there's value to that? Huge value, just as long as we're,

not imposing our will on them and saying you have to tell us. It's your private medical. You don't want to tell us. Don't tell us. And by the way, we should have the don't ask, don't tell us. It should be like, if you don't want to tell us, we're not going to even talk about it. But if you want to offer it, you can feel a talk about it. But if you want to offer it, we think that's great.

But there's another side of that. Kylie Jenner, after her mom came out and said, I had this face in it. I'm so happy I look great, which was great. Kylie Jenner goes, oh, I had, and people were asking you, what about your breast? Kyle, and she never admitted to having breast implants. So she comes out and says, I had 400 cc's put under the muscle by this doctor. And everybody went crazy. Oh my God, I'm going to go have my breast done because Kylie Jenner did it because she has,

what, 200 million followers, right? And what Kylie Jenner does, every kid wants to do. And then I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, Kylie, I wanted to say to her, I don't know her. I know Chris, I've met the others. They're all very, very nice. I want to say, Kylie, remember two years earlier, Kylie, you said it was the biggest regret of your life. So please say it within the context of, I did 400 CCs. I know you're all going to go crazy because I'm telling you what I did. But remember, I regretted it. Right. Just because

being honest about it maybe helps people understand why you don't get to look the same way, but might encourage it to people that can't go to the best doctors in the world. Or maybe share your experience. She regrets it. She looks great, but she said, it was a big mistake doing it before I had kids and now that once I had kids it stretched me out so all the things that she has already disclosed i just think you know when you have that many followers you kind of you know you have to be careful you have a responsibility to when you say something oh i went bungee jumping okay it's the greatest thing ever in everybody goes bungee jumping but you know half her friends died you know don't encourage people when you know there's be honest about the side effects the

wrist, the regrets, the complications. That's all I'm asking. I'm not ragging on Kylie, Jim. No, no, I know. Now, before we let you go, uh, and appreciate your time. So I've already said I had three hair transplants. Yeah. I got my ears pin back.

Yeah. Uh, I also did, um, I can't remember what it's called, but it was like a radio wave thing that killed the fat. Morpheus. Yeah. Something like that killed the fat under here and then, and then tighten the skin later. So two.

Face tight. Yeah. Yeah. It was awesome. And really like made this better. Yeah. I'm just, that's what I've done so far. Now, if you'd be open to it, understand, I start from the place of, there's nothing you can tell me about my face that I haven't said in a worse way.

And if I were to come into your office and say, I have money is no object. I just hit oil. I want you to do anything that you think will help me look like the best version of myself. What would you do? Okay, so I don't do that. You won't do it. No, no, what I say is we're not supposed to, we're supposed to say, well, is there anything that you, in particular, are noticing or focusing on double chin bags under my eyes crow's feet okay now so you're now making a list okay so let's look at your eyes uh-huh let's analyze your eyes let's look at your crow's feet go like this go eh and so i'll go like this in the mirror go like this okay you you

don't have crows feet i would say yes i can sell you some botox okay but you it's it's okay to show expression. This is what I would tell you, right? It's okay. And then you say the bags under your eyes, and I go, what bags? You go, these things get really big sometimes. I'm really tired. I go, okay, that we could do. Let me tell you what the pros and cons are doing it. Yes, but I'm not what could you do. Could you do what would you, what could you do? Well, I mean, you could take, you could do your lower, you could do a lower eyelid blephalplasty. Lower bluffs. Be very careful as a man doing a lower island blephroplasty. There's some celebrities who I'll show you after. who did it at your age.

And then they look weird. They look weird. You know what I'm talking about? So, yeah. By the way, you look, you, I'll give you a free consult. Hell yeah. And I think everybody here will agree with me. For your age.

Do you want a marker to write me? No, for your age, for right now, you look great. Hell yeah. Now, if you went to a nasal surgeon, a nasal specialist, he's going to say, well, how about the fullness at the tip of your nose? Right. wouldn't they say that that sounds like one of those guys right and they would take out the fullness you could just take the little right here there's a area called the dome and you could reduce the dome

and let me show you some before and afters that's selling you surgery okay if you if a patient doesn't identify something i don't want to talk about it i don't think there's only well if a person is coming in for their nose and they have a recess chin well you have to have things got to even out otherwise. That you would pair together. But I remember when I was training in plastic surgery and I graduated UCLA and I joined this guy and he was doing celebrity after celebrity after celebrity. And I sent him in a friend to talk to him about her stomach. And he goes, well, I'm looking at your stomach. Let me see your breasts. And he's tried to sell her breast implants. And I thought, that is the most disgusting. Can you believe that?

While I'm looking at your stomach, let me see your breasts. And he tried to sell her breast implants. I got to go to one of these guys. Is that disgusting? I need to go to one of those guys. I need somebody who's like behind on a mortgage, desperate. I want somebody who's going to look at me and be like, oh, we're going to get you on the table tomorrow. You're being too responsible.

Thank you. Dr. Terry Debrough, thank you so much for your time. This was a blast. Really good to talk to you. Thank you. I appreciate it. And the show is Botch Rewind, which is airing right now. Yep.

If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on Instagram, TikTok, and all the other ones for original content, community events, and more. You can also find Love It or Leave It on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube exclusive content. And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review. Finally, you can join Crooked's Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad-free, love it or leave it and Pod Save America episodes, subscriber-exclusive pods, and more. crooked.com slash friends. Loveter Leave it is a crooked media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett, and Lee Eisenberg.

Kendra James is our executive producer. Bill McGrath and Caroline Restin are our producers, and Kennedy Hill is our associate producer. Hallie Keeper is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Peter Miller, Alan Pierre, and Suba Argoal are our writers. Jordan Cantor is our editor, Kyle Segglin, and Charlotte Landis provide audio

support. Stephen Cologne is our audio engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Sure, sure. Thanks to our designer, Sammy Coderna Rees, for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And thanks to our digital producers, David Tolls, Claudia Shang, Mia Kelman, Dilan Villanueva, and Rachel Gieski for filming and editing video each week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroote, and our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

Thank you.