Lovett or Leave It - Move Fast and Break Teens

Episode Date: October 2, 2021

Comedian Ashley Ray thumbs through a forbidden text in our first ever Don’t Read This Book Book Club meeting. BJ Novak steers our collective trolley through a crowd of ethical dilemmas and moral quandaries. And Kara Klenk defends Elliot and Olivia’s end game on Law & Order: SVU, among other other scorching opinions in the return of Lorde of Hot Takes.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, please visit crooked.com/lovettorleaveit. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

Live or Else We'll be right back. We're gonna have a good time Let's do it Get out of that room Get the hell off the zoom Turn off that screen We're gonna make a scene Get your cookies, fits Better get your kicks Come down to the show We're not vaccinated Oh, hell no It's a cookie. It's a fix. It's a fix. Better get your kicks. Better get your kicks.

Come down to the show. We're not vaccinated. Oh, hell no. Live or else. Been cooped up too long. Live or else. Say the word and we go. Live or else.

Got both of my shots. Live or else. How about you? What you got? Live or else. We've been going insane. Live or else. Let's get back in the game Cause love is going live

We're gonna have a good time Good evening, Los Angeles. You do it live once, it feels like it could be a fluke. How y'all doing? It's good to see everybody. Last week I thought I was a little too amped. I was a little too excited. It worked live. I was worried I was a little too activated in the recording. So I'm taking a moment to take it in.

Thank you for... I see that you have a Pikachu jacket. You started with that early. I started with what early? Early in life or early tonight? Early as opposed to what? Later, when I was supposed to reveal it.

You were going to reveal it later. I see. So early by a timetable you had set for yourself as to when you were going to peacock with that fucking Pikachu jacket and get my attention. But you got a little chilly. And so you put it over your legs. And I came over here first.

You were being modest. And now I'm talking to you a lot. A lot. See you later. That amazing song was by Mark Coughlin. If you have a live or else theme, please send it to us at leaveitatcrooked.com. Also, we're trying an experiment tonight, which is we have a board in the back where you can put your own high notes. And so we're going to do the high notes live.

So if you want to leave a high note for us to talk about at the end of the show, put it up on the board at a moment where it wouldn't be too distracting for me or for the people around you. Show some goddamn respect. On this week's show, Ashley Rae joins for our inaugural Do Not Read This Book book club. BJ Novak wrestles with the very notion of reality. And Cara Clank swings by for a return of our hot take segment. But first, let's get into it. What a week. This week, Representative Ro Khanna said what we're all thinking about Kyrsten Sinema

as she continues to drag her feet on passing the reconciliation bill. I guess the question is, what does she want? I think it's obvious what Senator Kyrsten Sinema wants. It's a hot topic that's just for people over 40. In response to pressure, both Sinema and West Virginia Senator and Gruffman, who you can sort of see sensually making a piece of pottery with a ghost, Joe Manchin. You know what I mean? There's a softness there.

You know what I'm saying? It's there. We can deny it, but it's there. He released a statement as well. Sinema says she has been providing details in negotiations with the White House and Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. Manchin said he is open to a $1.5 trillion reconciliation bill if Schumer will agree to stop showing up at his houseboat every morning with one lox and cream cheese bagel to split because you don't need two from the place he goes because they give you such a big portion. Sort of sweet to split it. When asked by a reporter where she was with regards to passing the bill, Senator Sinema said this. There are progressives within the Senate that are frustrated that they don't know where you are either.

I'm like clearly right for a deal there. So for those, it was a tough audio. So someone said, the Democrats in the House don't know where you are. And she said, I'm right by the elevator

because she's doing fucking schtick. Seattle melted. There's smoke every third day. And she's like, I got jokes. She went on to say,

I haven't decided which floor to get off on, but I'm definitely going to push every button because I stink. Sinema's also reportedly been to the White House four times this week as Biden attempts to negotiate a deal

to pass both the bipartisan infrastructure bill. Anyway, he also wants to pass Build Back Better. Both very important. There's the bipartisan one for roads and then there's the build back better for the rest of society. There's the roads one

and then there's the one that nobody can summarize because it's child care, climate, tax cuts. I think dentistry is in there. I think dentistry may come out. The point is, sometimes I think it was a mistake for us to organize

our entire society around the principle that the people with the greatest pathological need for attention will be granted the most power as a consequence of getting the most attention. Who wrote this? I hate that. Is that about cinema or me?

Just halfway through it, I realized I may have been pranked. I'm not even doing the punchline. I hurt my own feelings. Anyway, about all these shenanigans, Nancy Pelosi told the press this. Let me just tell you about negotiating. At the end, that's when you really have to weigh in. You cannot tire. You cannot concede. This is the fun part.

Nancy Pelosi is 81 years old. What is it like to live this way? I regret making dinner plans on a weeknight if I don't get an hour to chill between work and leaving my house again. I freak out because I need that moment to get myself together. She's 81. When my grandparents were 81, it was like breakfast, casino, late lunch, bed. She's dangling Josh Gotthomer over the ledge of the fucking Capitol Rotunda.

Give me the fucking votes, Gottheimer. I think it's cool. Pelosi gets a lot of shit, but deep down, we want her there. Right now, a little bit? Come on. When questioned if he was confident that the infrastructure bill would pass

on Thursday, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said, nope. As of right now, no votes. What's going to happen next, we don't know. In her new memoir, former White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grissom details how President Trump allegedly underwent a colonoscopy without anesthesia in order to avoid showing weakness. The whole thing takes place in the weakness. Though Trump did say yes to a little VCR cleaner. I'm so sorry.

That killed in the Pikachu section. I will say by 2022, we're hoping Love It or Leave It will be 100% poppers jokes. On Wednesday, Ted Cruz tweeted in support of NBA players who seem not to be complying with vaccine mandates in New York and San Francisco, saying, I stand with Kyrie Irving and my body, my choice. I can think of no better incentive on earth for anti-vax athletes to get vaccinated than having Ted Cruz express their support. I don't want to be with that guy. I had to spell Kyrie out phonetically because I hadn't heard the term before. After her daughter's real estate appraiser application was denied by a state employee

south dakota governor christy gnome and her daughter met with uh the employee her supervisor and the state's labor secretary gnome's daughter was approved four months later and the agency employee was allegedly forced to retire a week after approving the application to christy gnome's daughter i would just say this dream bigger your mom will kill off half the state for a motorcycle parade. You could be Surgeon General if you want. It's a lot of corruption to become a real estate appraiser. I'm saying it's a good job, but... This week, Facebook announced that their planned Instagram for kids

would be put on pause out of concern that their platform negatively impacts children's self-image. An Instagram spokesperson said in a statement, We have listened to experts and parents, and before launching this project, we want to ensure that kids have time to get hotter. Facebook's global head of security, Antigone Davis, which is a really cool name. Antigone Davis? Antigone? That's cool. Testified in the Senate today after the Wall Street Journal published the Facebook Files, which exposed the harm Instagram does to teen girls and other groups.

A million dollars isn't cool. You know what's cool? A billion suicidal teens. What are you booing? The world we built? The world we built for our children who have to live in two spaces at once? One's real and one that's a nightmare? This can't really be a surprise

to anyone what these studies say. Instagram makes me feel terrible and I didn't just get my period for the first time during intramural volleyball in front of Josh C, captain of the lacrosse team. I'm a 39-year-old man. Did you just say no? Cut my age from the podcast.

Or make it something else. A whistleblower leaked documents detailing Facebook's research to Congress ahead of the hearing. In one of the more disturbing findings, Facebook concluded that for young Instagram users, social comparison journeys mimic the grief cycle. It's literally just on the slide deck. It's like there's this meeting at Facebook. They all get together. It's in the middle of the day. Maybe some of these executives had a finance meeting first. Maybe they had marketing. Then they

go on to a Zoom, and then somebody from their research department is, we have the findings, and our products turn teen girls into widows, mourning the death of their self-esteem. It is poison for their minds. It warps them, destroys their individuality, leads them to seek out an impossible and singular standard that no one could possibly meet. It becomes a preoccupation for these girls. It overtakes their natural desires and individuality and turns them into shells of their former selves in pursuit of an impossible

standard of beauty. And then like an executive's like, can we wrap? I have two minutes till my next thing and I need to go to the bathroom. The grief cycle. Claiming the Wall Street Journal mischaracterized their findings, Facebook released two internal decks on Wednesday, and then the Wall Street Journal said, oh yeah, we have more of this. That show, among other things, how users experience a downward spiral exacerbated by the platform and provokes a self-described dysmorphia. The only way to properly characterize their findings would be to have Werner Herzog narrate the presentations, which I genuinely think we should reach out and have him for next week.

Can we see if Werner's available? Tough booking. He could do it from home. I assume at the mouth of a volcano or something. Senator Richard Blumenthal's office created an account for a teen girl as an experiment and saw how quickly the account was fed dangerous content about body image and eating disorders, which I'm glad they did.

I think it was an interesting experiment, but I do think it was wrong to make Greta Thunberg run the account. Because now she's talking less and less about climate change and more and more about contouring i don't even know what that is i think it's a shame blumenthal also asked instagram if they would step up and end finsta uh can we roll the clip will you commit to ending Finsta? He was doing well, too, until then. He followed up by saying,

How many young men and women are caught in these thirst traps? And how do we free them? I want you all to know, I think this is all a little unfair. He's been doing good work on this Instagram. So we poke fun. But he's been doing good up there. Finsta's side. John Hinckley, the man, someone just said Jesus. The man who shot President Ronald Reagan to

impress Jodie Foster has been granted unconditional release as of summer 2022. Don't applaud. I guess, stop it. Doesn't mean anything to applaud that It was finally clear to mental health professionals That he was over his obsession My question is, why did they wait 20 years To show him Anna and the King? I love Jodie Foster, but I'm a little skeptical Of anyone who has Mel Gibson as their emergency contact

Thanks to Delta-related demand, Costco is limiting sale of toilet paper. Ugh. Here's the thing, Costco. You can't limit my toilet paper while still selling me unlimited chicken bakes. You fucking

sickos. You masochists. That's a tough one to say. And finally, after a month on the lam, a dazzle of escaped zebras are still being spotted around Maryland. Desperate authorities... That's true.

Desperate authorities have asked for the public's help in rounding them up before Kyrsten Sinema turns them into a coat. All right, when we come back, Ashley Rae is here. And we're back. Ladies and gentlemen, and everybody else, we live in an era of memoirs and autobiographies.

What an insightful point. Can't think of something insightful or original? Just describe in detail everything that has ever happened to you and pray someone buys it to fall asleep on a plane. That's all fine and dandy, especially when I personally publish my memoir, which is any day now. Some title ideas.

Love it at first sight. That's it. However, there are a lot of books it would be downright morally irresponsible to actually read, let alone purchase. So this week marks the first installment of Love It or Leave It's official Do Not Read This Book book club. We get into it so you don't have to. Joining me now is an incredible comedian and one of our favorite guests. Please welcome Ashley Ray. How you doing?

Welcome. Good to see you. You too. You too. I'm going to have a drink. Me too. They made me a whiskey soda. Nice.

Hey. This is our, you know, Ashley's been on the show, but this was our first time meeting in person. Yeah. It's better. Yeah. It's been a lot of that, of meeting Zoom people, IRL. I love it.

Oh, I think it's okay. Yeah. I like to think people just fall in love with me when they meet the real thing. But, you know, fair enough. Oh, no, no. I have fallen in love with you. Thank you. But I've met more than just you.

Okay, that's a fair point. You're meeting all kinds of people out in the world, and they're not all Ashley's Ray, you know? Precisely. Before we crack a few spines, as they say, I wanted to check in with you about one of your, I would say, areas of focus. Yes.

Which is a person by the name of Sean King you created a video titled Sean King is a liar sometimes tell me what led you to create this text well you see people don't often know that Sean King is a liar

sometimes he gets a lot of support mostly around white people who don't often know that Sean King is a liar sometimes. He gets, yeah, he gets a lot of support mostly around white people who don't like to read. So I noticed last year a lot of my friends were sharing things, like still sharing Sean King stuff, and I was like, come on, how can you still want to share this? I made an Instagram post that was like, come on, he's a liar, and it went viral, which like going viral on Instagram it sucks it's like going viral in a Joanne's fabric like all of these like aunts and old women were like he does more good than you'll ever do like ah and so then I got sick of people being like I want to

see the receipts and evidence and so I just made a 30 minute powerpoint that goes into every single thing he has done that was a scam since he was a church pastor like going back here I just like lined it all up uh and then I did a scam goddess episode with the wonderful Lacey Mosley and uh then I became sort of a Sean King scam expert. I think that's good. Well, it's interesting you say that because it does seem as though he does rely on new people coming to the internet. Yes.

Like real housewife types who are looking for a guru to introduce them to race in America. Yeah, race in America and I think with some white people they like that his last name is King because then they only have to remember one new name name like it just makes it easier they're like oh Mara and Sean this is the new one so it's like you just follow him on Instagram and send money where he says and it's

so simple and if you do like a minute of research you will see like this guy is a liar everything he's ever planned like none of it's ever happened like don't give him money he'll do this thing so after his last controversy uh the mother of tamir rice called him out for stealing money uh he's a great guy and uh he decided to just delete his twitter he like made it private and then just deleted the whole thing because twitter is a place where he can like get called out people will make threads but instagram is just a place where people are like oh this is a place where he can get called out. People will make threads. But Instagram is just a place where people are like, this is a pretty infographic. I support him. So that's how he

does it. And the reason we wanted to ask about this is because there's a new venture. Yes. Tell us about it. Oh my god. It's called... So after getting called out by these mothers of the movement, deleting his social media media just running

to Instagram where he can continue to confuse housewives he decided to start a clothing line Sean King is starting a clothing line called a real one which every time I read it by the way I'm like are alone I'm just like are alone that's weird name. But it's a real one where he is selling sweatshirts that are $165. This is also the fun part. When you go to the website to order the hoodie, it says prototype on it. But it's not clear if it's a prototype or if it's the actual one you're getting. But then he does make it clear you will not get it for 10 to 12 weeks. You're never going to get that hoodie.

I'm never going to get my hoodie. You're not going to get that hoodie. I'm never going to get my hoodie. You're not going to get that hoodie. You gave him $165 per pair. One is not going to get one's hoodie. Yes. Shit. Yes. Any hypothetical buyers out there, do not cross your fingers on getting that hoodie

in 10 to 12 weeks. So you think that help at SeanKingArealOneScam.com is not going to be responsive? Because I have not gotten my prototype sweatshirt. No, I don't think so. I think much like his venture to climb seven mountains, this will be another failure.

Alright, well, you know, whether or not I get my sweatshirt, it's not really important. Now it's time for the Do Not Read This Book book club. It's Stephanie Grisms. I'll take your questions now. What I saw in the Trump White House. Do not buy it. In which the former Trump press secretary reveals

well, not all, right? It's probably just like some self-serving stuff and a bunch of lies. Now Ashley, did I read this whole book? The answer is no. Good, I have not read any of it. Because HarperCollins changed their mind about sending us a copy. Why would they do that? I don't know.

And it's still technically under embargo. And out of respect to HarperCollins, we weren't going to honor it. We had a conversation about it. We were going to break the embargo. So they were right not to send it. A lot has already leaked about the book so we're gonna unpack it using discussion questions called from the Oprah's book club yes but before you ask uh yes I did look for Reese Witherspoon's discussion questions as

well but you have to get the app of course Reese is an incredible businesswoman she will want that download yeah yeah don't begrudgeudge Reese that for even a second. So let's begin with this quote from the book. I knew that sooner or later the president would want me to tell the public something that was not true or that would make me sound like a lunatic. That is why she decided to never have a briefing for Trump, despite that being her job. And Ashley, using Oprah's discussion questions, let's start with this. What do you think motivated the author to share his or her story?

You know, I think at this stage, if you're in the position of being like, I probably could have done something to stop Trump, but I waited until I could get a book deal, it's probably going to be money. Probably going to be money. I's probably going to be money. I'm thinking she's motivated by the money. I couldn't agree more.

In another passage, Grissom reveals that once Putin acted cold toward Trump, the 45th president became desperate to be his friend and win his approval, or as Grissom puts it, with all the talk of sanctions against Russia for interfering in the 2016 election and for various human rights abuses, Trump told Putin, okay, I'm going to act a little tougher with you for a few minutes, but it's for the cameras. And after they leave, we'll talk. You understand. Oh, yeah. Actually, please imagine I'm Oprah when I ask you this. I am. How does this passage make you feel?

It makes me feel like maybe I can relate a little bit like i you know i'm desperate for the approval of so many men who are cold to me uh there's nothing hotter there's nothing like right it's a little like okay same like i can't begrudge him this like the whole like like, I'm just going to play tough for a little bit. Like, I won't text back right away. I feel that. Yeah. Shit. Yeah. I know. I know that.

But they know. They know. They know they have all the power. They have all the power. So just like Putin. Yeah. Just like Putin. Not finding me funny is the hottest thing in the world to me.

You know what I mean? That is the coolest fucking thing a person can do. Oh my God, yeah. I will seek your approval till the day I die. Yeah, after a show and I'm just like, did I do good? Did I do good? And they're just like, I'm like, huh? And I'm just like, uh.

Let's get married. Like what, please? Oh God, I'm the Trump of like all my relationships apparently. Just desperate for approval. I'm just playing tough for the cameras. Relationships, apparently. Just desperate for approval. I'm just playing tough for the cameras. I have not worked for Hillary Clinton in over a decade. One more chance to make her laugh.

One more chance. Just one more. Never did get it. Never did get a single laugh. Jeez, that would just drive me wild. And I get it. That's the point. We should cut that.

In another section... Maybe that whole question, my answer to if we could just cut all of that. No, no. Leave Ashley's part in. In another section, Grisham says Fiona Hill believed Putin hand-selected his translator to distract Trump, who apparently reacts to women with brown hair the way a cartoon wolf reacts to Betty Boop.

Right, Grissom? As the meeting began, Fiona Hill leaned over and asked me if I had noticed Putin's translator, who was a very attractive brunette with long hair, a pretty face, and a wonderful figure. She proceeded to tell me that she suspected the woman had been selected by Putin specifically to distract our president. The man is ancient. He has seen hundreds of attractive brunettes. He can't act normal around any of them. Anyway, Ashley,

that brings me to my next Oprah question. What, if anything, have you learned from this author's story? Ooh. That I can hold a lot of power as a woman with dark hair. People like to say blondes have more fun. Not necessarily.

You can be deployed as a honeypot and be a brunette. And that's progress. That is the definition of progress. In another segment of the book, Grissom describes realizing Trump's temper wasn't just for shock value or the cameras and was often directed at White House counsel Pat Cipollone or others attempting to give him actual advice. Here's a quote. He didn't like them telling him that things he wanted to do were unethical or illegal, so he'd scream at them, but then he'd usually listen and then yell at them again later. Ashley, if you could ask the author any question,

what would it be? What was the worst thing Trump yelled at you? I want to know what his temper tantrums are fully like. I feel like he'd just have the dumbest insults, like you can't even afford McDonald's.

Was that a brilliant trump impression for those listening please send that to snl thank you brian get that to snl thank you overnight it please print it and overnight it to snl lauren will be waiting for that one but i just feel like it would be like half like just curse words and half just like what do you buy your pants at kohl's or something like i just like the idea that this is the book of a person who decided to be trump's press secretary in year five and is acting like this was some kind of a revelation like how i came to discover the most obvious fucking thing on planet Earth

by Stephanie Grissom. In another incredible moment, she describes being called from Air Force One and being made to agree with Trump that his penis was normal. After Stormy Daniels described it as resembling the

mushroom character in Mario Kart. And just shout out to Toadstool and his whole family. That is so unfair. Just living your life, being the worst choice in Super Mario 2. Not his fault. Dragged into this. Grissom, yes, I know that Toadstool is in Mario Kart.

But I don't choose Toad because it's for more advanced players because he's fast. But you gotta have good controls on him. He turns too quickly. There's a lot of agility there. I like a Bowser. I like a Bowser.

I like to take more of a kind of Driving Miss Daisy approach to Mario Kart. A slow acceleration. A slow deceleration. That's what you get with Bowser. It's safer. You know what I mean? Slow and steady. I never win. That's what the show's about now.

So anyway, back to the book, Ashley. Trump's penis is like toadstool. His press secretary had to reassure him otherwise. Voiced by Keegan-Michael Key in an upcoming film. We'll see. His press secretary had to reassure him otherwise. Voiced by Keegan-Michael Key in an upcoming film. How much money is he getting to voice Trump's dick in a movie? Dick, right? A movie.

Which begs the book club question, how did this book change your mood? Anytime I have to think about Trump's penis, I'm in a bad mood. That's immediately setting me on a path I don't want to be on. You know, I'm happy that Trump has people around him who don't body shame. I got to say, that's good. I wouldn't expect that from Team Trump. That's, you know, nice to see. This is a phone call from Air Force One.

And it just occurs to me now that the technology involved in connecting that secure phone, there are people in the military on the line. It's being patched through satellites. No, sir. It's quite normal, I believe. As your press secretary, sir, let me reassure you.

I'm sure it's great. Did she have to see it? I don't know. I hope not. I don't want to know. Did she have to see it? I don't know. I hope not. I don't want to know. And finally, and perhaps most bizarrely of all, Grissom purports that an unnamed staffer had to constantly play the song Memory from the musical Cats to calm Trump down. If he started to fly off the handle. Final Oprah Book Club question, Ashley.

Do you think the author was honest? Yeah, I need that to be true. I need this to be 100% true because it's amazing the thought of Donald Trump just, like, crying to memory from cats. Like, to calm himself just, like, so on the emotional brink of just the story of cats. Like, it could be any song from, like, Les Mis, and he's like, no, I don't get that shit the story of cats. Like it could be it's like it could be any song from like Les Mis. And he's like, no, I don't get that shit. I want cats. I just love how frozen and fucking amber he is in like late 80s, early 90s New York.

Because for those of us who are from the New York metropolitan area, cats at the Winter Garden Theater. I mean, this was it was unstoppable never went same I didn't just saw the commercials over and over again and I my whole childhood I was like what is this what what are these costumes what are these people doing on this stage and yeah and Trump who I assume has seen ever like so Broadway plays, Phantom of the Opera probably. He has a world he could choose from, and he goes with Cats. I need that to be true.

They're pretty good songs, Cats. Could be worse. It could be worse. I was trying to think of a worse musical, but honestly, I hate Cats so much. I just think Cats comes from a moment in time when you were allowed to do cocaine at work. Yes.

Unapologetically and just say, hey, I know what you're thinking. I only went into my office for seven hours. But believe it or not, I wrote literally 17 songs, though if I'm being honest, three are reprise. I wrote literally 17 songs, though if I'm being honest, three are reprise. And while there is technically no story, it's perfect. And done. And I'm done. And I need to go home.

So this is Cats. And now I'm rich forever. Which is such a cool thing about Cats. I see why Trump would be into it. I see why Trump would be into it. I see why Trump would be into it, too. And that's the Do Not Buy This Book book club. Thank you to Ashley Ray. Thank you. When we come back, we have some moral quandaries to pose to BJ Novak.

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back! My next guest is a brand new anthology TV show called The Premise, which grapples with a new modern moral dilemma each episode. It's Black Mirror without the technology,

so basically it's regular mirror. And no, the conclusion of every episode isn't technology is ruining society. We can do that without it, you know? Humanity's capable of doing that on its own. We here at Love It or Leave It always enjoy wrestling with the big issues, both fictional and otherwise. So tonight we have the premises creator, BJ Novak, here to join us to untangle some moral quandaries. Please welcome BJ Novak. Hi BJ. This is so exciting. I've never, I haven't done any performing. I'm not going to do

this, but I've not done any stand-up. Oh. Outdoors it feels like you're at a rally. It's cool, right? It feels like you're Mussolini or something. That's how I feel. That's how I feel. I do think it ends with me dangling from my feet, being dragged through the streets of Los Angeles.

Have you seen the YouTube clips of him? It's very silly. Of Mussolini? Yeah, he's a very silly figure. He's like a silent movie comedian. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It seems like one thing you learn from history is that fascists are fundamentally silly

in a way that lets people think their guards should be down, when in reality that's part of the way in which they manage to accrue power. It's something I honestly, it clicked in, that was the one that clicked it in for me, but yes, I agree. Let's get to some moral content. So let's not be too funny.

No, let's not be too... We don't want to set off any alarm bells. They're on to it now. I want to be the perfect level of funny that creates a movement that can't be stopped through ordinary politics. I don't really want to that much. I watched the first two episodes of the show. And I really appreciated that Ben Platt was wearing a Pod Save America t-shirt, which I love.

That was for you. Thank you. And I also, the second episode is about guns. And I really liked the second episode is about guns. And I really liked the way you built suspense throughout the episode. And I also liked that there's a moment in that show where you see the main character kind of espouse both points of view in full. And in the kind of Ben Platt episode, there also seems to be this effort to kind of see both sides of like what it means to be a kind of progressive quote woke end quote liberal what is your goal with the premise like what are you trying to the goal with the show is is to not do anything other than than explore what it feels like to be

in this age filled with issues so what is funny about it what is funny about it? What is dramatic about it? But when there are ideas expressed, I try to make them be sort of the background, the scenery in which characters wrestle with things. And ideally you feel for them. So it was fun to sort of write very, very different points of view from my own all over the place. For years and years, we've seen sort of zombie movies. And in zombie movies, there's this question like, what would humanity do? How would they respond? And then in the past two years, we've been through this global pandemic. And one thing we learned is like, oh, people are just going to do whatever the fuck they want. They're not going to pay attention. They're not going to listen. How did the pandemic and the way people reacted shape the

show? Because there's a moment in the first episode where this is a post pandemic world because he tweets as a woke person that everybody should get vaccinated. His credibility is torn apart because he has tweeted, never trust the government, never trust the pharmaceutical industry. And the government is doing an amazing job rolling out the vaccine. You're an idiot if you don't get it. So I can imagine saying any of these three things. I've felt all of these things at various points and they don't all go together. So I think we're all in situations like this. But is it a post-pandemic world now? This is I don't I can't tell you the exact month it's set.

I think a lot of shows that have taken place. Look, every show takes place. You busted me. Every show takes place in an alternate reality in which these particular things happened. Right. That's true. So in the same way that there's no Julia Roberts in the world of Notting Hill. But there is an Ocean's 12. But there is an Ocean's 12. Right. So I'm sort of doing Ocean's 11 and a half. Like things are are very real, but it is an alternate reality in which the pandemic happened a few

months differently than it did for us. Enough stalling. It's time for ethical quandaries. You're driving a trolley like you so often do, only to realize there are five total strangers tied to the track. Your only option is to switch the trolley to a different track wherever there is one person tied to the second track. That person is me.

Hmm. What do you do? Who's on the other track just some fucking normals well now I definitely know who I'm hitting all right fine you killed me good decision a few years ago and this is real I was stoned in line at the movie theater this is a true story And two things happened at the same time. One, I saw that BJ was behind me in line. This was at the Grove. And I realized that I had not dealt with an issue

involving my credit card. And I was about to find out whether or not my credit card would work. That's a major moment in every man's life. And you were right behind me, and I'd ordered a fair amount. What did you order? It was probably soda, popcorn, probably a Reese's Pieces, and probably nachos.

That's a huge order. They were probably to share with myself. And as I got to the front of the line, I realized that I might have to turn to you to pay for all this food. I would have loved it. And so here's what I did. And this is 100% happened. Again, I'm really stoned. And I just say, oh, let me get BJ's food.

And I turn to them and say, oh, so get BJ. What do you want? I'll get it for everybody. This is brilliant. My theory being that if now, because I've tried to be generous, if the card doesn't work, it's obviously embarrassing. But there's no conversation after that. BJ steps up and pays for the food, right? I don't remember.

I must have been stoned too. But my card did go through. Okay. Do you remember when I bought your popcorn at the movies? At all? It seems like no one has a memory of this that can be trusted. But this is very much not a moral dilemma. This is a strategic con operational tactic that you're asking me to analyze.

And in this case, it backfired. It was a smart statistical guess on your part. It was cool, though, right? It was smart smart statistical guess on your part. It was cool, though, right? It was smart, right? And if there is morality involved, it is a karmic fate that stepped in to teach you a lesson against the statistical likelihood. And you don't remember me treating you at the movies at all? Nothing. Because, like, obviously I was trying to scam you, but it did, as you say, backfire. Yeah, let me say this.

It does not seem like the kind of story somebody makes up. So I do believe it. BJ, is it okay to litter when you're inside the Matrix? Oh, sure. A little bit, yeah. Do you believe we're in a simulation right now? No. And I think it's so funny that the staunchest atheists in the technology business just create their own god, which is in their own image.

And it's some cool programmer from another era who has programmed an entire universe that we're living in it's literally god what god was thousands of years ago oh it's a man who is bigger than us like this is they've just invented religion all over again so no i don't believe this bullshit religion because i do yeah you're scared that they're hearing it well here's the thing I owed my mother a call her name is Fran

and then earlier today a very cute dog jumped on me and then I said what's this dog's name and the owner said Fran next question that'll do it you see what I mean

I do see what you mean you see what I mean that's the first unusual thing I've heard of in a long time. I got to revise everything. Changed a lot of things for me. If you have seen a thing your friend is in and you did not like it, do you say you liked it when they ask you? They ask you?

Yeah, he said, what'd you think? Well, I didn't say that to you. Does that mean you didn't lie to me about my show? I did not lie to you about your show. Sure. No, thank you. Hey, what'd you't lie to me about my show? I did not lie to you about your show. Sure. No, thank you. Hey, what did you think of my new TV show? What do you do?

It was very interesting. I don't know. Wow, so you don't want to lie. I think you say I liked it, but it's a different language. They know. Yeah, I liked it. If they're asked is a neutral answer. You can't get a real answer if you – I would never ask.

I wait. I hope. Yeah, but I think you're dodging. I think you're – it's still, but I think you're dodging. I'm dodging. It's still lying. Yes. You're dodging. If someone comes to you and says, enough of this shenanigans. I want to know. I worked really hard on this and I value your opinion and I want to hear it straight.

Did you like my show? I didn't like it. What? Okay. So how would that feel? You don't have a show, so this is hypothetical. I don't have a show. This is hypothetical. You don't have a show, do you? That would be even worse. a show. This is hypothetical. You don't have a show, do you? That would be even worse. You haven't heard about my show?

You haven't heard about my new show on one of the many platforms? Here's what I'm saying. Here's my response if you tell me you don't like the show. What does that sound cute? Here's the thing. Bill de Blasio got the dirt bikes, but not in LA. Here's my point. Even here we blame de Blasio.

I'm sure he's involved. Fucking de Blasio. I'm sure he's involved. Fucking de Blasio. His fingerprints are on this. Because if we're friends and I ask you what you think and you say you don't like it, here's what I say back. You know what? I knew you were going to fucking say that. I knew you were going to fucking say it because you have resented any fucking success that I have all the time. You are not.

It kills me. I shouldn't have asked. You're right. You know what? You're right. I shouldn't have asked. You have honest friendships, and I think that's great. You're out of your friends.

I would love a friend who said, I did not like your show, if they didn't like my show. Oh, I would hate that. It would hurt my feelings. Cut them right out of my life. It's actually what tonight's episode of The Premise is about, the commenter. Anyway. On Hulu, right now. Yeah.

You're at your friend's wedding and find out an hour before the ceremony that they are cheating on their spouse-to-be. Do you say anything? Oh, I thought this was going to be the young MC bust-and-move moral dilemma.

And I was, I had been preparing for that since I was 10 years old. Involving your best friend, Larry. It's an hour before the wedding. Yeah. You just found out they're cheating on their spouse-to-be.

Do you say anything? No, because I don't know what their arrangement is. He doesn't know what the arrangement is. Yeah. I don't know that they're cheating. That's right. Unless they you say anything? No, because I don't know what their arrangement is. He doesn't know what the arrangement is. Yeah. I don't know that they're cheating. That's right.

Unless they're like, holy shit, don't tell anybody. This is a betrayal. And I don't like your show. If they just lay it all out, then I know something is amiss. This is his brother, and I found it a bit ponderous. Is it ever okay to ghost someone? Yeah, it's ideal. No, no, no.

I understand why it's okay for you. Is it ever morally acceptable to ghost someone? Oh, no, I meant it's ideal on the other side. You think it's ideal to be ghosted? Yeah, it's so elegant. It's like, hey, where did they go? They must be busy. We live in an age of so many distractions.

A few days by the time you know you've been ghosted, so many other things have happened. So you don't even remember the slight. Listen. I've been ghosted. I don't even remember by who. You don't sound like a ghostie. You sound like a ghoster.

Whoa, did I ghost you, sir? This feels cathartic for you in particular. He was super into that. You ghosting people? Yes, I'm sure, all the time. I don't know what I'm... I'm being ghosted too. Isn't everyone ghosting everybody all the time?

Do you ever engage in the premise? All right, okay. Does the premise ever do an episode? This is a crowd of friends. I'll go through my phone later. Does the premise ever engage in the question, do two wrongs make a right? Reghosting?

I would love to see the pro argument for two wrongs make a right. It's kind of a straw man of a moral dilemma. On the other hand, perhaps it's doubly wrong. Yeah, I'm with that guy. On the other hand, perhaps it's doubly wrong. If a deranged billionaire approached you and said, I'm going to mobilize my immense power to enact a $15 minimum wage in the U.S.,

but only if you agree to treat all service workers terribly to the degree that it becomes your reputation, and there are memes about it, you can tell no one. You in? Yeah, I feel like I've been doing that. I mean, I think I do ghost them equivalently. Let's say I said no, and then I was accidentally rude to people. I'd be like, oh, my God, I could have fucking saved America.

I was just too vain in the moment. Yeah. So, yeah. It would haunt me. Every time I was polite to a waiter, I'd be like, I could have. Could have saved a lot of people. Yeah, I would let them do it for sure. Okay, good.

Okay, good. You passed that one. But I don't know about this minimum... No, just kidding. If you knew your social media platform caused one third of teen girls who use it to mentally spiral over their body image, but it made you a lot of money,

would you keep it up? I would ban the Finsta program is what I would do. You'd ban the Finsta program. Now, but what if it was the list app? Oh, God. Great, great deep cut. Great deep cut.

I would I would morally I do the right thing. You do the right thing. You shut down the list app. Sure. Why don't you say that? That's why you did. Yeah, you're right. I was concerned about teen body image among the 20 users.

Not all heroes wear capes. Thank you. I redeemed myself in his eyes. This is a broader question, but I was actually just curious about your thoughts. Do you think social media has been a net positive or a net negative for society? Great question.

I think in theory, it should be a net positive. And perhaps if it went on forever, would straighten into a net positive, but it is a net negative and perhaps if it went on forever would straighten into a net positive but it is a net negative currently if it stopped right now you'd be like that sucked yeah yeah it does feel like we're in this like when you strip away everything else right facebook says here are the things we do that are good and then the rest of us say here are the ways in which it's hurting us in the ways it feels bad and yet we all still use it in part because we do get some things out of it, some positive, some negative.

But it does seem right now it is hard to argue that there is a net positive effect on this universal product that we've all kind of signed up for. Yeah, I think since you gave me permission to engage this as a serious question, gave me permission to engage this as a serious question. I think that capitalism and morality used to be assumed in this sort of all-American spirit to be more or less aligned. And this is a very clear case in which you have to say, hey, this is your moral dilemma. What if they're not? You know, because I do think that this is sort of like social life social interactions taken to a capitalist end point and it might be a great economic system and not a great moral system but when they're on this sort of infinitely parallel plane um you have some big big decisions to make you can't just be in this sort of general middle class fantasy uh which isn't entirely right by any means anyway but this

this general all-american fantasy that capitalism and morality, basically freedom and goodness and right will be more or less aligned. I think this is a test of that. Final question. You really don't think we're in a simulation right now? Because here's the thing. These games are getting better and better all the time. It's 9-11.

Ooh, spooky. Like, now that you mention it. BJ Novak-11. I mean, spooky. Like, now that you mention it. BJ Novak, everybody. Thank you guys. Thank you. That was great. Thank you so much.

Viva Italia. Sure. When we come back, Cara Clank and Ashley don their oven mitts to handle some scalding hot takes. Don't go anywhere.

This is Love It or Leave It and there's more on the way. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back! You'd think by Thursday we'd be tired of all the Internet's 24-7 hot take cycles. Not me, though. I have a psychological problem.

I need more spicy opinions, which is why I've asked Ashley Rae back to the stage for the show's second round of what we previously dubbed Lord of Hot Takes. And we're going to keep calling it that because, I don't know, we couldn't come up with something better. It was because Lord, the musician, ate a bunch of spicy hot wings as if they were nothing on that show Hot Ones. And we decided to do spicy hot takes inspired by her. And we decided to do spicy hot takes inspired by her. But we thought we can't generate the number of hot takes we need with just the two of us. So we'll also be joined by comedian and host of That's Messed Up, Cara Clank. Please welcome Ashley and Cara.

Hi. Hey, we're back. Welcome back. Welcome back. Hi. Hi. Give me some bow. Good to see you. Thanks for coming.

I always sit on this side because even though that's traditionally the host seat, and actually, interesting fact, most talk shows on television where the host sits here fail. You've got to sit on that side. I don't know why, but it's one of those rules. The problem is this is my good side. This is for no one. Here are the rules. Neither I nor my guests

have seen these hot takes that's real they were hand selected without our input or knowledge no matter what take we each receive we must defend it with our lives Kara, Ashley are you ready? yeah I'm ready

let's see the first hot take and who it's for wine is overrated and who is this for? it's for. Wine is overrated. And who is this for? It's for Kara. I'm a mom. Listen, wine is overrated.

Am I supposed to buy the cheap stuff? Am I supposed to buy the expensive stuff? I have to get a degree to understand how to drink this shit. I mean, you have a couple glasses. You want to die the expensive stuff. I have to get a degree to understand how to drink this shit. I mean, you have a couple glasses. You want to die in the morning. I mean, I don't. What the hell is skin contact? Yuck.

Why drink wine when there's vodka? Do you know what I mean? I think you did it. Let's get to it faster. That's my time. Wine is overrated. Great job defending that one. I love you, wine. Let's my time. Wine is overrated. Great job defending that one. I love you, wine. Let's see what's next.

Being a Disney adult is actually kind of cool. That is for Ashley. Of course it is. Of course it is. Okay, yes. Being a Disney adult is actually kind of cool

because it is cool to be arrested in development and to have the brain of like a 10 year old. I think being a Disney adult is cool because I think it's cool when there are people in the world who've like never done any cool drugs and their form of excitement is Disney World. I think that that is good and those people are good people. All right. Yes. Sully Sullenberger isn't really a hero. Those planes land themselves.

Here's what I'll say. I've flown many times and my favorite pilots are the ones that hit zero fucking geese. There have been plenty of times in my life where I've made a mistake at work and then worked incredibly hard to fix it. But you know what's even better than that? Not fucking up and hitting the geese in the goddamn first place. He crashed with style. And then he made it his brand.

And then all of a sudden we were supposed to listen to this guy on other topics. All of a sudden he's teaching us about leadership. Like Sully Sullenberger's tips to being a great leader under fire and it's like all right man you didn't kill everybody on board that's what every pilot does every single day with rare and terrible exceptions yes Yes What's What's next Law and order SVU Should end with

Elliot Stabler And Olivia Benson Getting married Who is that for That's for Cara This is because I have A law and order podcast Okay

Probably Probably This is very coincidental If not We just started the 23rd season We're 500 episodes in Let Olivia fuck Can she not Okay. Probably. Probably. This is very coincidental, if not. We just started the 23rd season. We're 500 episodes in. Let Olivia fuck.

Can she not fuck? Let her fuck, Stabler. Let her fuck. Let her fuck. Let her fuck. For the apartments, let her fuck. Let her fuck. For the church with the bells, let her fuck. Let her fuck. Let her fuck. For the church with the bells. Let her fuck.

Let her fuck. Honestly, this woman has been kidnapped. Her son has been kidnapped. She's been beaten. She's gone undercover and been attacked. Let her fuck. Like, let her have Stabler. His wife just got blown up.

Spoiler alert. Let him fuck. Let them fuck each other. This is what I want. I want a white wedding. I want a 55-year-old Mariska Hargitay walking down the aisle like a virginal bride to meet the alpha male stabler at the top with his Jesus Christ tattoo. Absolutely. Because I want him sleeveless at the wedding.

Yes. And that's what I want. Let's see what's next. Ben Affleck could do better than J-Lo. That's for Ashley. Godspeed, Ashley. You know what? You know what?

Yeah. Ben Affleck could do better than J-Lo. Because you know what? Yeah. Ben Affleck could do better than J-Lo. Yes! Because you know what? I think there are some really hot, amazing people out there who are super into Boston guys. Yes! And they're smart ladies who are attractive and cool and maybe on this stage right now. and maybe on this stage right now. And I just think that Ben Affleck could do better than J-Lo

because he probably has a lifetime Dunkin' Donuts card. And, like, I'd appreciate that. I think a lot of ladies would. And, you know, I bet he knows, like, all the best bars in Boston to get punched at. And, like, I, so, yeah. all the best bars in Boston for sure to get punched at and like I so yeah and you know honestly J-Lo

going back to an ex that's pretty weak I've never done it so yeah am I stronger than J-Lo? Yeah. So could Ben do better?

Yeah. Yeah he could. That was awesome as was the person who shouted don't reduce him to a Boston guy. Did you produce Argo? What the fuck?

Let's see what's next. John F. Kennedy was hot by 2021 standards. I assume that's for me. I will now defend the statement, John F. Kennedy was hot by 2021 standards.

Here's what I'll say. He has great bone structure. I don't even know why I'm hesitating. I would fuck John F. Kennedy in a heartbeat. The man is incredibly handsome. He was on a boat in the fucking Pacific

in World War II. I know it's World War II. I know it's World War II. Yeah, it seems right. And, you know, there are all those old photos of Kennedys playing sports for the love of their father. And I think that that's really good. I think it's cool to be with somebody whose whole identity was seared into them by competition as children and what was clearly 100% conditional love.

I think we need a little bit more conditional love in 2021. Yes, that's what turns me on. That's what turns on Ashley. Headline, I'd fuck John F. Kennedy. What's next? Bravo is getting boring.

That must be you. Is this for Kara? Godspeed. Guys, listen. Bravo's getting boring. It's getting boring. It's not Erica. No, it's getting boring.

I don't care about Erica. That whole storyline just does not really do it for me at all. Yeah, no, I mean, listen. We canceled Dallas. Some of these cities are just not fucking performing. And D.C. couldn't cut it. And we're on like season 14 of Atlanta. And I can't even bring Atlanta into it.

So good. Okay. You know, FX has a lot of cool stuff on it. Watch the premise on FX. Watch the premise on FX. Watch the premise on, is that what it's on? Oh, okay, yeah. FX on Hulu. I've been paid.

BJ gave us all $20 backstage to say that. I'm not watching Vanderpump anymore. Those kids can just all go screw. I'm not watching that anymore. All the summer houses and winter house, I don't need any more rich kids banging and throwing each other into pools. I don't need that. It's not fun to watch. Bravo is boring now.

It's time we face it. What's next? I'm not too defended. That was a really hard one. The royal family was right about Meghan Markle? Oh my god. This is not for me. For Ashley? No.

The royal family was, the royal family was right about Meghan Markle. They were right because the monarchy is something that should only involve dying old white people. And so they were right to basically kick her out of the family because she wasn't on brand, honestly, with that. And so they were right. I'm ashamed of us. And also, you know, Suits isn't that great of a show.

So... I think it was... Maybe he could have done a little better. Maybe he could have got somebody from, you know, at least Lost or... Rizzoli and Isles. Rizzoli and Isles.

At the very least. Like a backup person on Psych or something. So, you know, I think the royal family, yeah, they have high standards. They're expecting at least like an Emmy winner. So, yeah. Wow. What an incredible defense.

I think it was smart to go to Suits. I think it was the only place to go. Let's see what's next. You masochists sweatpants should be banned from the workplace all right i'll take this one on i think it's really good that uh we have a set of professional standards that require people to be uncomfortable if people aren't deeply uncomfortable at work, they might briefly, for a flickering moment, forget that they are at work. That if they don't feel a kind of pressure on their waist, a kind of tightness, an unnatural constraint at their waist level, they might

feel comfortable during the day. And you don't want that. Alright? Next thing you know, comfortable people start to have ideas about other ways that they could be comfortable. You know? That they could be working less and being paid more. They could expect benefits to be treated

like a person. And we can't have that. Not in the late stages of rapacious american capitalism sweatpants are a door to a place we cannot go yes now what if i told you that i've discovered a kind of sweatpants secret which is they now make sweatpants that are printed to look like jeans. These are the most dangerous of all. What if I told you I've been wearing them multiple days a week, and that while wearing the sweatpants that are painted to look like jeans, I ordered several more pairs? Because the other night, not only did I wear them to work, I wore them to a sushi restaurant,

and I felt like I had a dirty, sexy secret, the secret being that I look like I'm wearing jeans, the work pant of the restaurant world, but in fact, these are buttery soft sweatpants in which I can eat as much as I want of this dish that somehow went from being something you saw once to something you saw literally

everywhere, which is something called spicy tuna crispy rice. No sweatpants at work. What's next? That's it? Those weren't that hard. Guys, give it up for Cara Clank and Ashley Rae. Incredible job picking up these scorching hot takes.

When we come back, the high note. And we're back. Now it's time for the high note. We are going to experiment with high notes in person. Let's start with where are Jess and Stacey? I can't see. What's your high note? We haven't seen each other in 18 months because Stacey lives in Baltimore.

And it took this podcast to get us in the same place at the same time. That's so nice. Let's go to Shane. Where's Shane? Hi, Shane. What's your high note? My high note is that I was an adopt-a-state mod along with all these beautiful people right here in the front, and we're meeting in person for the first time. You're meeting in person for the first time? That's great. Wait, let's go to Natalie. Wait, what's your high note, Natalie? This week, I scheduled appointments for both my parents and myself for us to get booster shots. Great.

I love that. Rite Aid's throwing shots in the garbage. Everybody go get your fucking boosters. Listen to these nerds at the FDA. Leave this in. I don't care. It's time we talk about it. Oh, you got a PhD? Yeah, well,s at the FDA. Leave this in. I don't care. It's time we talk about it. Oh, you got a PhD?

Yeah, well, I got a booster. This says it's by... Wait, we're looking for a done bitch. Yes! Is that you? No! It's not you. You're just excited. Yes!

Who is the person who wrote that? They're pointing. My manager finally revealed himself to fully be a dick, so now I will be quitting my job and leaving him with a team that

can do nothing. I see. I see. So I I see. I see. So I love that. So your high note is you just fucked some shit up and left a done bitch size hole at work

that no one there can fill. Yes, smash the patriarchy. Smashing the patriarchy. Terrific. What's your high note, Michael F.? I think it's that I can sleep better at night knowing that Britney's almost free. Yeah. So Ronan Farrow and Gia Tolentino wrote an incredible investigative piece for The New Yorker.

It's Ronan Farrow. He's a journalist. And I would say one of the great privileges of my life is I get to see how Ronan works, which is I get to see not only the kind of, like, you know when in X-Men, when if Cyclops takes off his glasses, he has to be directed, or it will burn a hole through the earth? That's the way Ronan approaches everything

from journalism to ordering at the Cheesecake Factory. It's a kind of intense beam of light that could burn through lead. So it's always a pleasure to see that in action. As is getting to find out what he knows but can't

always print. No, I'm not going to say anything else. Otherwise, he'll stop talking to me. Let's go to Laura I. Hi, Laura. Hi. What's your high note? My neighbor had a birthday party

and she gave us weed goodie bags. Sick. Great high note. Love that for you. Alex, what's your high note? Hi. So my high note is that I was in love with my best friend for years

and it only took the world to stop spinning and a global pandemic to realize that she also liked me too. And now in a couple weeks it'll have been one year since she's been putting up with my nonsense and going on dates with me. That's awesome.

And that's our show. Thank you to BJ Novak, Ashley Ray, Cara Clank, everyone who sent in a high note. And shout out, I want to shout one more person out that I didn't say last week

which is Sandy Gerard who did an incredible job over the last year figuring out how to get us live. When she started, she said, we will do a show in a parking lot. And we fucking did it.

So thanks to Sandy. Sandy, there are 401 days until the 2022 midterm elections. Have a great weekend, everybody. And I'll see you next week. sweet. Keeper is our head writer. Jocelyn Kaufman, Pallavi Ganalan, and Peter Miller are the writers. Our associate producer is Brian Semel. Bill Lance is our editor. And Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Sure Sure. Thanks to our designers,

Jesse McClain and Marissa Meyer for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And to our digital producers, Nara Melkonian and Milo Kim, Mia Kelman and Matt DeGroot for filming and editing video each week so you can.