Lovett or Leave It - Mueller? I hardly know her.

Episode Date: June 16, 2017

Jon is joined by Jamil Smith of MTV News, Vanity Fair's Nick Bilton, and comedian Mo Welch to discuss the shooting in Alexandria, news reports that Trump himself is now under investigation, McConnell's play to revamp the health care system in secret, and, most importantly, endless construction at the Beverly Center.

Guys, please get it going for Love It or Leave It! Love it or leave it, it's love it or leave it. Hey guys. Thanks for coming out. It's great to be here at the West Side Comedy Theater. We're back. Let me bring out our panel. He is a senior national correspondent at MTV News

and co-host of their political podcast, The Stakes, Jameel Smith. She's a cartoonist and comedian featured on Comedy Central and runs the Mo Show in LA, Mo Welsh. And he's a special correspondent for Vanity Fair and a best-selling author. His new book is American Kingpin,

Nick Bilton. Hi, everybody. Hi. Hello. So let's get into it. What a week. What a day. Obviously, we woke up this morning to a mass shooting during baseball practice or softball practice on Capitol Hill.

Six are in the hospital, two in critical condition, including majority whip Steve Scalise. That's basically been what everybody's been talking about. Today, I don't know how much we have to add to this story, except one thing that seems to happen now, regardless of the location and the unique facts of any given mass shooting, we kind of have a process that we seem to go through now, almost a routine. And first there is the kind of spreading of speculation

followed by the kind of assessment of motive and then the political fallout and the question of whether the shooting itself is being politicized or not being politicized enough. Now in this case, we've added to the fact that obviously it's a deeply serious and dangerous thing when representatives of our democracy are attacked and basically victims of assassination attempts,

you know, threatens the fabric of this country. But regardless, once again, we've seen implications that the shooter was a supporter of Democrats, of Bernie Sanders. And then there's been a round of condemnation from some Republicans, including some pretty, I think, specious and despicable partisan attacks on Democrats. And kind of we're off to the races. I don't know if and if you had any reaction to that. What do we do when mass shootings become routine? Well, first things,

it's not a Democrat or Republican thing, in my view. It's an angry man thing. And that's a common thread that we're seeing with these domestic shootings. First of all, and I say domestic because, you know, mass shootings happen all over the world. But most of them seem to happen here. And a big reason for that is because domestic abusers like this guy are able to have licenses to get guns. So that's one thing. Number two is this is a time when it really helps to have a president who you can believe. I just feel like, you know, they've wasted a lot of credibility. Like forget about the Russia stuff and all this other stuff that, for a minute, they've wasted a lot of credibility on things like

crowd sizes, you know, and when real disasters happen, things that are out of their control, it helps to know that a president behind a mic is telling you the truth. I think part of the problem is that he doesn't care. He doesn't, there's no, you know, he's not up worrying tonight whether this is going to happen again. He's up worrying about how his numbers are in the polls and what Fox & Friends is going to say about him tomorrow morning. Nick, so I think that's interesting. So one thing that was actually surprising was Donald Trump gave a perfectly reasonable statement in the aftermath of the shooting.

No, he did. You know, look. It's funny that you say it was surprising. Of course it was surprising. It was actually something that you would hope a reasonable president would deliver in a moment such as this. So that was pleasantly surprising. That being said, he is the Twitter president. You wrote the book on Twitter. And I think that a lot of the way in which he tends to react in

crisis is not dissimilar to the way Twitter as a medium reacts in crisis, which is basically shooting from the hip, idle speculation, and all the rest. I mean, I don't know how... What is your view of the way Twitter factors in to these moments? It's interesting. So I wrote the Twitter book, I think it was four years ago, three, four years ago it came out. And today I absolutely fucking hate Twitter.

I think it's like, and partially because of Trump, but partially because it's become, you know, when it was first started, it was started with this idea that you would be able to go out and tell your friends you were at a club by sending them a tweet and they would know.

There was never any intention that it was going to be a media platform. That's how I used to use it. It was about clubbing for me. That's why I started following you on Twitter. Here's where I'm at. We've got a table. Do you have bottle service?

I think bottle service is a great way to spend money. That's why I do it. It totally makes sense. This room is the place where I drink for more money. Just come meet me at this giant, empty, loud, dark square. This is the best one. Fast forward 10 years. And here we are.

And here we are. Speculating idly on mass shootings. No, I think, look, Twitter serves a great purpose in the respect of it gets news out in a very rapid way. But it also gets a lot of fake news out in a very rapid way, and it gives Donald Trump, I mean, Donald Trump has said

numerous times to the FT, to Fox, even on Twitter, that if it wasn't for Twitter, he would not be president. And I think that that is a failure of the product, that it allows him to, A, do what he does, and allows people to respond in a very emotional way. Look, you've got 330 million people having conversations in real time

about the most emotional topics on the planet. Gun control, abortion, health care. And I think that it's not working in many respects. It's not making us into more understanding human beings of each other. It's making us into more partisan individuals. Mo, you, speaking of

laying out your emotions on social media, you've developed... This is gonna make sense. Follow me for tears. No, no, no. but you've kind of created even an alter ego to kind of share your emotional feelings on Twitter

right yeah I mean like yeah mostly on Instagram also I was curious like does anybody oh Instagram sorry

yeah like what is does Donald Trump have Instagram yes like does he what is his like brand on Instagram it's just pictures

of Donald Trump just pictures of him it's pictures and quotes of Donald It's just pictures of Donald Trump. Just pictures of him? It's pictures and quotes of Donald Trump quotes, pictures of Donald Trump gold planes. Oh, that's so boring. Well, it's because his social media feeds, except for the ones he obviously does himself from his unsecure phone.

It's funny. These little things are still happening, right? The little crazinesses are just there. Blackberry? No, just an old Android. Oh, it's an Android. I was like, I feel like he should have a 7 Plus. I think his hands are a little too small for the Blackberry.

Oh, you're right. And the 7 Plus. It would just be laying on top of it. A 7 will do. He can type on a 7 plus like it's a QWERTY keyboard. That is a beautiful image. Oh my god. No, but

Trump's Instagram is run by his former golf caddy who's no, but that's true. It's actually a real thing. Dan Scavino who met the Pope instead of Sean Spicer. You have a problem with that?

You think Sean had earned it? You think Sean... Listen, we don't care about that. All right? He made his little bargain. All right? And he gets what he deserves,

which is maybe the ambassadorship to Ireland. Nobody's going to get... the comeuppance are never coming you don't like it? oh you think there's gonna be justice at the end of this story? what story have you been watching? where were we? Instagram, Dan Scavino sucks at it

just knows about clip art knows how to copy it and put it I believe in a word document and then maybe take a screenshot that is the extent of his sophistication knows how to copy it and put it, I believe, in a Word document and then maybe take a screenshot. That is the extent of his sophistication. That is the extent of the Instagram quality. Mo, you use Instagram.

Yeah. We were about to get to that. Right, yeah, I do use Instagram to say my, I mean, I could do it on stage, and I do do it on stage as well as a stand-up, but I also think it looks cuter with a character, a cartoon attached to it where you're saying we're all going to die today. That's not an example of a joke. That's not a joke, but I'm just like that's the gist.

That's just something you're feeling in the moment. Right, right. That happens to also be true. Right. So some of the things that were said today already, Newt Gingrich, you've had a series of things which send signals that tell people that it's okay to hate Trump,

it's okay to think of Trump in violent terms, it's okay to consider assassinating Trump, and then suddenly we're supposed to rise above it until next time. That, I think, is a really despicable and interesting way to put it right it's of course okay to hate Trump it's like

a really like I mean you know there are people that are saying hates a strong word alright calm down but like hates a strong word I just like Trump I don't give me a break but to conflate threats of violence with what the vast majority of us are doing, which is encouraging nonviolent resistance, is ridiculous. But even the threats of violence, for Newt Gingrich to say that is complete bullshit.

Because when you look at the Obama administration, as you know of all people, there were Tea Party protests of fake Obamas hanging from a noose. There was a Fox commenter who said that he should be assassinated. These are things that happen with every presidency. This is not new to Donald Trump. And also, Donald Trump has welcomed and encouraged that behavior. I mean, he welcomes Ted Nugent, who said that Obama should be killed, into the Oval Office for a photo op and a tour. So that sends a signal to a lot of folks that, hey, you know what?

It's okay if you bomb some Negroes. Right. I mean, like we think about the neo-Nazi who was just let off on bond. Okay. There's a guy in his roommates. Everybody's heard about this case. The neo-Nazi converted to Islam, killed two of his roommates. And the other roommate who survived is a you know member of a national guard and he came

home and discovered it well he got let off on bond despite the discovery of a litany of bomb making materials in the garage guns and weapons and a framed picture of timothy mcveigh on his dresser now do you think that i a guy with two Arabic names, would have gotten off with that? Be like, oh, no, we don't see any danger in him returning to society. We don't see any potential flight risk. That's what the judge actually said. And so that's the kind of situation that we're operating in, where that kind of extremity gets off. So, I mean, no wonder they're getting the message that it's okay to do this. Right. I mean, just sort of the disconnect between our reasonable yet very strong reaction to Donald Trump and violence, right?

There's no connection there except to sort of score a political point, which is what Representative Chris Collins did today. He said, I can only hope that the Democrats do tone down the rhetoric. The rhetoric has been outrageous. The finger pointing, the tone, the angst, and the anger directed at Donald Trump, his supporters. Really then, some people react to things like that. People get angry as well, and you fuel the fires. And I guess my only takeaway from this today is that the one thing we can't do is let this kind of a shooting change what we say when what we say is simply trying to hold these people accountable. The larger point, I think, is around the motive of mass shootings. We've seen this with

Donald Trump and any kind of random acts of violence. So we have a massive gun violence problem in this country. The majority of gun deaths are suicide. That's one giant pool of crisis. Then there are, I don't know what the best term of art is, but some homicides related to robberies and vendettas and grudges and drugs and gangs and the kind of quotidian murder and gun violence that barely registers on the news anymore. And then we have this small category of massacres. We have a massacre crisis. And it doesn't take as many lives, but it captivates us and draws our attention,

and rightly so, because it's terrifying. You know, it has changed our way of life. It has changed our country. It will change the way Congress behaves from now on. Every time one of these things happens, it changes the way parents treat their children when they're dropped off at school. It changes the calculus in our communities. It's a huge national problem. But for some reason, the way we talk about this kind of virus of lone wolves and others who are broken and evil and narcissistic who want to go out in a blaze of

glory, our reaction to the crisis depends on their motive, which is something in their broken mind they've determined. So if someone claims they're directed by ISIS or inspired by ISIS, Donald Trump really cares about that, right? That's a big deal. That should be national focus. That should cause changes to our policies around the world. That should cause us to build a wall and expel people and have a ban. But when the shooting is motivated by some other bullshit, evil reason,

he doesn't care. If it's motivated by racism or violence against brown and black people, the real Donald Trump Twitter feed is silent. Five days later, the ad potus feed deigns to comment. Right. I mean, he still has not mentioned the Portland stabbings on the real Donald Trump account. He still has not mentioned the Portland stabbings on the real Donald Trump account. He still hasn't mentioned the white supremacist murder of a student at

College Park, Maryland, an ROTC student, by the way. So we're talking about second lieutenant in the army. Didn't recognize that whatsoever. And why is that? Well, the only discernible reason, Occam's razor tells us that he needs their votes that's it I think the other problem, I mean this is something I always think about whenever these events happen there was a Guardian reporter that tweeted after Newtown he said

after we were okay with Newtown the gun debate can just cease to exist it's still, in the same way I wake up some mornings and I think about the fact I'm like is Donald Trump really president? I mean, I still have that moment several times a day. I still have that moment around Newtown, the fact that nothing changed from that.

And I think that I don't see it ever changing in this country, ever. Yeah. I mean, I just come back to it. You watch Twitter, and obviously it's destructive, but it's also instructive. And one of the things that you watch in the aftermath of these attacks are people just desperate to find out it's the motive that they want. And you saw this morning there was the first reports that this was somebody who asked a member of Congress who was leaving, are those Democrats or Republicans out there? Now, it turns out that it seems like that may have happened. But at first it was just a rumor, and it was spreading like wildfire.

And who's retweeting it? It's more likely to be retweeted by a conservative pundit than it is by a liberal pundit. Now, that is not to say that conservatives are worse on this issue. I think both sides come to the mass shooting aftermath immediacy with a desire to figure out how it reflects better on their prior opinions. But to me, I think the reason it's so facile and silly is that it's like, you know, when there's somebody yelling at the street, it's like, you know, you can accept their reason, which is that they're being chased by a ghost,

or you can say, this person has a serious problem, and their reason doesn't fucking matter. And what matters is that we have a kind of a lone wolf problem of people who have seen these kinds of mass shootings and seen these things happen. And they want to do it, too. And nobody has a good answer for that at all. Nobody has an answer. I have, like, not a real answer because I am a comedian. I do think because most of these gunmen are men, I think that maybe we should ask them before.

When you buy a gun, you have to go through a screening, and you have to have an ex-girlfriend or a mom approve you for that gun in order to buy that gun. Just because hopefully they know you better and they're like no that dude's fucked up like don't like no it's like sorry Linda gave you a hard no maybe next year

then you'd have you'd have you remember when we were all kids and we used to wait outside of a liquor store and ask someone to buy us liquor we'd be waiting outside of a gun shop being like, can you pretend to be my girlfriend? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Fishing for guns. I do not think the male Republican members of Congress will go along with this particular form of gun control.

But I think the important point is to be open to any idea. So let's move on. Late breaking, I don't know how many of you saw this in just the last hour or two, the Washington Post ran a story right before. You guys are nodding. You are up on the goddamn news. Again, you don't need to be on your phones

all fucking day to be part of the resistance. You can have a life. Trying to create some emotional space. Between the last topic and this topic. And I've succeeded. Special counsel Robert Mueller. Confirms that a probe is widening. To include whether Donald Trump.

Committed obstruction of justice. Which makes him the target target of a criminal investigation. This was in part prompted by the firing of James Comey, which is why it was so interesting how important it was to Donald Trump that James Comey confirmed to him that he wasn't under investigation, because it's a bit of the Ouroboros,

which is because you're not under investigation unless you fire me, at which point you certainly will be. Now, of course, he wants to fire Robert Mueller. I mean, I don't know that. I'm idly speculating that when Donald Trump reads this Washington Post story, he's going to want to fire Robert Mueller,

which would mean he'd be committing an act of obstruction of justice to stop an investigation into an act of obstruction of justice to stop an investigation into an act of obstruction of justice, which is obstruction of justice squared. It's like one of these back-to-the-future paradoxes. You know?

It's like if you go back and you chain, the parents don't meet. I mean, it's the same kind of thing. It's like Comey is the Oracle from The Matrix, and he sits down with Trump. He's like, what's going to really bake your noodle later is... Would you have committed... Would you have destroyed your administration?

I don't know how to finish it. Who cares? You get it. What is there to say? It's a great story. It's all going to fall apart. But tonight's a great night. Obstruction of justice. He's going to say it's a great story it's all gonna fall apart but tonight's a great night obstruction of justice he's gonna pardon himself in a tweet we're so fucked but uh so jeff sessions testifies that feels like a thousand years ago now uh we're now

off to the races with robert investigating Donald Trump For obstruction of justice Jeet here who is an editor of the New Republic Made this point He said Robert Mueller is now investigating Trump for obstruction of justice Stop talking about it Move on to healthcare This will run its course You're making a mistake

You're not talking about the thing that really matters Am I making a mistake? Is this wrong? Don't we need to talk about this? I think, I mean Jeet is a former colleague And I love him dearly But I think we were able to walk and chew gum at the same time. And I think that certainly Congress people should be able to do that. They are members of Congress, after all, and should not be limited to one particular topic at a time. I mean, look, the key is to see how they're interrelated.

I mean, you're talking about, Comey broke it down, okay? At the heart of this we're talking about a foreign power an adversarial foreign power interfering with our most treasured franchise the heart of our democracy and this president couldn't seem to give a shit I mean, they really just

don't care. They're not doing anything in fact, they're leaving the door a little bit wider for the next person that wants to come mess with our election. So you have to understand like how like if you can relate this to people's daily lives, say, hey, they're screwing with your vote. They're screwing with your ability to maintain this democracy. That's an everyday issue, guys. It's not some kind of distraction from health care or the other sort of, you know, kitchen table issues. It is, in fact, something that we should be talking about every day and connecting to those issues.

Nick, I want to hear your cynical take. My take is that you just said that people should be concerned that Russia and the election system is messing with our democracy. I don't think that most people give a shit about our democracy. I think that the reason that so many people voted for Donald Trump is because they believe that our democracy does not work. And that for them, it was like, well, screw it. I'm going to vote for the weird-looking orange guy with the red tie because there's a chance that he will actually maybe get me a job. But there's also a chance that he'll break the system. And if the system breaks, then maybe something better will come out of it. And I think that that's

why you're not getting this uproar from the right because they don't think the system works, period. Also, the right has been screwing with our elections for a good long time now since the inception of the Southern tragedy. So, I mean, they are just like, thanks for the help, guys.

Pretty much. I mean, to me, you could be more cynical about it. You could just be like, they voted for help, guys. Pretty much. I mean, to me, you could even be more cynical about it. You could just be like, they voted for Donald Trump to piss off liberals. And that's pretty much it. And mission accomplished. And they keep doing it every single time we get upset with something he does.

And they just love it. I have a question. Do we get to make fun of Jeff Sessions on this podcast tonight? Nick. Yes. Oh, great. That's the only reason I came.

I've been practicing my southern accent. Okay, well, now I'm sort of regretting saying yes, but no, but let's Well, let's talk about Sessions, because I actually think the Sessions testimony is an interesting prequel to the stories that broke tonight.

And for one specific reason, you can kind of divide what Sessions had to say into two baskets. There's the Russia basket, and then there's the obstruction firing of Comey basket. He was much more comfortable in the Russia basket. There was a kind of vibe off of Sessions that was like, you go talk to Jared, but I'm not going down for this fucking shit. All right. Like you all. And I don't like I want you guys to know something. I do not like Jeff Sessions.

But he was good up there, especially on the Russia stuff. And he was particularly good on being convincing that he was saying to his colleagues, you people know me. I did not go to the fucking Mayflower to collude with Kislyak. Give me a goddamn break. Very well could be lying. He could definitely be being very emphatically true on a narrow basis. But where he was much

more shifty and squirrely was on matters relating to the firing of Comey who left the room and when what this set of judicial Justice Department guidelines are that prevent him from answering uncomfortable questions. The famous ruling in the Justice Department

that attorneys general only have to answer the questions that don't make them uncomfortable. No, I was just noticing while I was watching it that he had 72 point, like, font size on his paper, and I thought that was really funny. That's all.

I'm glad we paused for that. We should move on now. It was one bullet that just said, don't be obvious if you need to perjure yourself. Keep it subtle. For me, I had a hard time getting past the fact that he looks just like Gollum

from Lord of the Rings. But after that, the thing that was so staggering to me was he would sit there and they would be like, do you remember what you had for lunch at the Mayflower?

Oh yeah, I remember the color of the napkins and the shape of the fork and the brand of the plate. Do you remember if you ran into Kislyak, a 200 pound Russian guy who's got 14 chins?

The fact that he couldn't recall that, it was just so obvious. I mean, it's brilliant, loyally Southern, loyally work there. But it was so obvious to me, I don't think he was being very truthful. I mean, he was clearly dodging everything that potentially would incriminate him without having to actually say the words, I take the fifth. You know, and so that's basically there. You know, you saw, you know, within the previous testimony with the DNI and in Rogers. And it's like, oh, you know, I just don't feel like answering that.

Or it's not appropriate. It's just you can get offended by it if you want. But you just it just looks like guys trying to stay out of jail. And they also when he was saying, oh, I can't speak about what I spoke to about with the president because of executive privilege. And then they were like, did he tell you not to say anything? He's like, no, but he might in the future. That would be like someone telling me as a reporter something and me telling my editor I can't talk about it because he might ask for it to be off the record in the future. And it also seems like the way they answer these questions questions it's like none of them actually talk to Donald Trump

about things that matter. Because it's like, oh, well, you know, I haven't talked to President Trump about this particular issue and I would want to run it past him to make sure it's okay before I can answer you. Like, well, my dude, how long did you have to prepare for this? Well, the best is

Sean Spicer has not had the ability to check back in with donald trump on on any matter of import for several months now and i i find that quite plausible because uh i think that it's very difficult uh to get donald trump to pay attention in a meeting to begin with he is a dotty old racist in decline so i understand that the other thing with with with sessions is comel harris who was great was trying so hard to pin him down on this question of like what are the rules that are not allowing you to answer these questions he's like well senator many different rules that you know I cannot remember to mention.

If you can't remember that much shit, perhaps you shouldn't be Attorney General, bro. Just saying. I mean, you might want to have a career change if you can't remember things. He's like, I had this meeting about prosecuting nonviolent drug offenders, which is my passion. Then it's faggy.

I saw somewhere on the internets that someone said the 300 million potheads that Jeff Sessions wants to throw in jail have a better memory than Jeff Sessions. I think that's true. Let's now move on to a topic that cannot seem to get the attention it deserves because we are

living it through we were saying this backstage like 15 administration defining scandals at once like just you can list them all and it seems impossible that they're all happening in the first five months of this administration but i don't know if you're aware of this the republican congress is planning to revamp a sixth of the American economy in secret, which is very handmaid's tale. So the CBA obviously reported that 23 million people will lose insurance. Donald Trump held a big event in the Rose Garden where he applauded the bill. This week he has discovered that the bill is mean because he's a moron. And he doesn't know what he's talking about.

But whatever. Put that aside. So let's talk about the secrecy. Remember, Republicans claim that Obamacare was passed in the dead of night. It was rammed down our throats. There was no open process. It was done in secret, et cetera, et cetera. Obamacare, there were over 100 committee hearings.

Trumpcare in the Senate, zero hearings. There were over 147 Republican amendments included. There have been zero amendments and no amendment process. It was the longest ever markup in the Senate Finance Committee, and it was on the Senate floor for 25 consecutive days, the second longest consecutive session in history. As of right now, the bill has already been given to the Congressional Budget Office, but still has not been released to the public. Mitch McConnell has been asked, you know, how can you do this in secret? And Mitch McConnell says, we're not hiding the ball here. You can ask us anything you want about a bill nobody's fucking seen.

It is one of the craziest things these people have ever done. It's hard to ask this question, but is it working? Are we learning something really dark here? What do you mean by learning? All right, well, Nick already knew this would work, but for the rest of us. No, look, there was a kind of pretense, and maybe it wasn't real, but it was a good thing that we abided by it, which is that both sides either believed in persuasion or out of a sense of decorum and decency

pretended to believe that there was value in democratic institutions to publicly debate, to consider the arguments. And that's been abandoned. When was that last the case? Because I don't remember. I mean, there are certain... Look, we can be cynical.

We can be cynical and I will join you. Listen, I love a little tension. I love a little argument certain... Look, we can be cynical. We can be cynical, and I will join you. Listen, I love a little tension. I love a little argument. That's part of the... You're sitting in a bigger chair. And damn right. You are the Republican in this... Well, look, I will be the last to say that I'm not, you know, referring back

to some golden era of, like, sort of legislative West Wingism. West Wingism? Are we calling it the West Wingism. West Wingism? Are we calling it the West Wing or am I invention of a dumb new phrase? But we can say that this process is worse than anything we've ever seen in Congress.

Oh, absolutely. I think, but I think that the process in Congress is worse than any time we've ever seen before. And it's, and part of the problem is that we live in a society where, and I do blame Republicans largely for this, that we live in a society where and I do blame Republicans largely for this but we live in a society where

politicians have made the issues about social issues and we all, a lot of people actually agree on a lot of the fiscal issues but because they're social issues we can't have a conversation and that is the same when you walk down the street to when you go to Congress the way that McConnell and Ryan and McCarthy have pushed this bill through, I think

is probably one of the most diabolical things I've ever seen. And the fact that, I mean, I've been reading a lot about it just for work and reporting, and I literally can't even comprehend that there is one human being on the planet who is OK with this. Not just Republicans, but any human being. I mean, the numbers of people that will lose their health care, the things that they're trying to slide through as amendments that they're not discussing. It's just I think it's absolutely disgusting. But their team will win. And that's all that matters.

Well, I mean, it's like, look, I'm a Cleveland Browns fan. If the Browns – go with me here. If the Browns ever made the Super Bowl and there was a terrible call in the end zone and, you know, this guy got hurt and da-da-da-da-da, but yet we end up raising the trophy at the end, I'm okay with that. You know what I mean? And that's how I feel. Like, they think.

They think about it like sports. And it's like, I don't care if there's a bad call. I don't care if this guy has to get hurt. I don't care who else gets hurt. I want to win. I want my team to win. And that's really all people think about it. Mo, can you give us a happy Instagram here for a moment?

Oh, my God. No, I just, I mean, I agree with what you're saying. I feel like they're like wanting to like cram and just hand everything in last second. There's no works cited or outlines or anything. And they're just like, just take this load of shit I gave you two minutes ago and pass it. I have to go home and I cannot go home without this

and I will be in so much trouble. The thing that kills me also is I remember President Obama going before both. I remember him too. Guys. Nostalgic. What did he look like again? I can't remember.

He looked more like me, Nick. He was super handsome and very charming and charismatic. But there was this whole group of people that like, you know, you shouldn't get into it. But you remember when President Obama stood before Congress basically and took their questions on the health care bill? Can you imagine Donald Trump doing that right now? I mean, he may have just read the House bill. That's why, oh my God, this is mean.

Oh my God. Okay, let's be, he did not read the House bill. He saw a fucking chyron that said the House bill is unpopular. He cannot even follow the crawl at the bottom of Don Levin's show. He has

no fucking idea what's in the House Bill. He doesn't know what the Medicaid expansion is. Donald Trump could not pass the equivalent of a driver's test on healthcare. And the California one is hard. It is hard. I just took it. You did? Well, I'm new to California.

Welcome. Welcome, Jamil, to California. We're talking about heavy stuff today. Have you ever had a Trump supporter at your shows? Yes. Really? They didn't have a super good time. There were several at DC, and they did shout a bit, which I would consider an exchange.

And I have Trump supporters who sit around my table at various family holidays because he is my father. So don't come at me, Nick Bilton. Let's wrap a bow on this healthcare conversation. Very loose show today. Here's the thing. We have a very short window here because the CBO score does have to come out. It does seem like this is still America, and so the bill will have to be released before it's passed. Pretty sure.

Jamil? Don't look at me, man. I don't believe that. I think there will be ideally one to two weeks where the bill is public. If you are listening to this and you live in Alaska, Ohio, West Virginia, Maine, Colorado, Louisiana, Arizona, and especially Nevada, call your Republican senator and complain nicely. And you can visit the TrumpCare10.org, which the Indivisible group is running, which is great, which will give you resources and help you do that. This is also important. For everyone that

lives in a Democratic state, including the state of California, you should call your Democratic senator and you should ask them to withhold consent and grind the Senate to a halt and do everything they can to block the bill from getting to the floor and then from passing. There are tools that they are currently not using. There are reasons that they are offering for why they are not using those tools. Those reasons are stupid. When we come back,

a segment called OK Stop. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It and there's more on the way. And we're back. Now for a segment we call OK Stop. Let's switch gears, and let's watch a clip of Oliver Stone

talking about his interviews with Vladimir Putin with Stephen Colbert, and let's break it down. Do you like Vladimir Putin? After spending 20 hours with the guy, do you trust him? He's a head of state. He has his own interests of Russia. I respect him for that. I understand why he's doing it.

He's a strong nationalist. He went through a whole history of 16 years, since 2000 to now, outlining what the relationship with the U.S. has been. I never heard him badmouth the U.S. I heard him try to reach out and have a relationship with them. He called them our partners

repeatedly. I almost made fun of him at one point because it didn't seem that the partnership was working both ways. Okay, stop. There's a term for someone like oliver stone the term is useful idiot that is ridiculous i'm gonna watch this thing i'm gonna watch all of it i'm gonna see what it's about and i do believe in principle to seeing something before you talk about it. But that's absurd, right? I have a theory. Putin has a video of Donald Trump peeing on Oliver Stone.

And Putin said he would put it on the internet unless Oliver Stone says he's a nice guy. The pee went down to left. This guy used to be the most skeptical person in America. I remember, like, look, JFK came out when I was in high school. And I remember thinking, I'm like, wow, this guy's really putting his, you know, putting his reputation on the line to advance, you know, maybe a crackpot theory here. A crackpot anti-gay theory. Yeah. And just to see him do this,

to see him just take in everything Putin feeds him and not mention, though, the anti-gay stuff and the killing journalists part and the killing rivals thing. And he just didn't mention any of that. He's just glad that he was able to put a camera in front of him and have him say things I don't know yeah he's terrified

he also looks like an old mob boss I don't know what's happened to him it looks like it seems like he's like talking about like you know like everyone has like a friend in college it's like a horrible person but you're like sticking up for them and you're just like no no he's fine like yeah I know he like punched someone on the basketball court but he's like a horrible person, but you're like sticking up for them. And you're just like, no, no, no, he's fine.

Like, yeah, I know he like punched someone on the basketball court, but he's like, he's really a cool guy, you know? He's funny. You're like, no, he's not. This is like the song Girl that Destiny's Child had like 10 years ago, if anybody's familiar. Just look it up. That's what this is.

That's because of the pee tape. Yeah, yeah. Want still a partnership. I bet I can tell you there's a strong feeling that he can still have a relationship with the U.S. I felt very genuine about that. When I watch this documentary, which I will do, what will surprise me most in the four hours that I see? I can't tell you how you think. I think he's devoted to his country, and I'm amazed at his calmness.

As I said, his courtesy. He never really said anything badmouth anybody, and he's been through a lot, and he's been insulted and abused. I didn't sense any kind of a... I didn't sense any kind of a... O-M-F-G. Okay, stop. Jameel. What? Hold on.

He sounds like... Here's what he sounds like. He sounds like a guy... Well, that. He sounds like a guy trying to talk to a friend's wife trying to convince her to let him move back in I mean you know it's like you know he didn't really say anything that bad he feels really bad about things and he's just really a nice guy why don't you give him another chance? Give him a chance, John. But that guy's murdering people.

He's just like putting little drops of polonium. You know, there's something I actually heard. There's a coffee shop near my house and it's run by a couple of Russians. Really nice people. And they were telling me, I was asking what they think of Putin and so on. And then they said, in Russia,

everyone thinks Donald Trump is really smart because they see the video clips of him and they don't do chyrons underneath. They do a voiceover and it's a really intelligent person. So they all- It's done by like Ian McKellen. They go around thinking that Trump

is like eloquent and intelligent and they think it's really funny because they know he sounds like an idiot. There's a kind of... What Trump actually says is... I mean, these people are terrible. They're ridiculous, ridiculous, terrible people. And then the translation is Russian Ian McKellen

being like, my word, how disappointed I am with the status of American... Abused in the press, in the media. I didn't sense... I didn't sense any kind of anger about that. Anything about him negative you... you found?

Anything? Anything? Or does he have your dog in a cage someplace? Okay. Okay, stop. One thing to be aware of that I did not know when I first saw this, Oliver Stone's son works for a media company

called RT, Russia Today. Oh, weird. Also, just to the point of Oliver Stone not being able to tell when a KGB officer is lying to his face there's a certain arrogance to Hollywood successful older white guys that's just like they've been around the block

alright you can't bullshit these people which is exactly the kind of person who can be bullshitted I sold several scripts that way I had a quarter of an idea I live very comfortably based on that principle also that documentary is four hours long. Like, it sounds so boring. That's all I came up with for that. But I'm just like,

four hours? It's not making a murder. Like, there's not, like, there's gonna be no conclusion. In a way.

It's just like, he's just like, at the end of the movie, like, yeah, he's a really great guy. I don't know what to say. Just like, the last hour is just two guys having ice cream. Talking about the news. In front of a house that's got balloons on top of it. Yes.

What is wrong with detente with Russia? I just, why would you be against it? And I don't understand this mentality. Maybe it's because you hate Trump. I perhaps can understand. That's a strong word. I don't trust it. It is a strong word.

You don't trust Trump. Yeah, I don't trust him. So therefore, you know, Russia is convenient as an excuse for having an election. I don't understand why our president will never say anything negative about Vladimir Putin, negative about Vladimir Putin, given that Putin is an oppressive leader of his country who suppresses the free press and arrests his enemies.

And that is not something that I as an American or a member of the press can respect. And I'm surprised that you do respect that. Well, you know, I've always been for free speech.

Yes, that he doesn't seem like he would be a hero of that. Listen, no question, he's a social conservative in that way. I don't know why you're laughing, but he believes... Because it seems like a mild description of his view. It seems like a mild description. It has a lot of work in it. We went back after the election to talk to him seriously about the election. It's all done in that vein,

and everything is above board. These things, you know, has he murdered a man? I wouldn't know how to ask him that question because I've looked at the evidence, too, and if I believed it, I'd go after it. Okay, stop. It's over anyway.

Guys, I think you've seen a lot of specious stories out there about many, many, many, many, many, many people that Vladimir Putin has probably killed. People that have probably leaked things to the United States. People that were recorded in a dossier about Donald Trump. People poisoned with polonium for dissenting against the administration. Journalists, dissidents, protesters, gay people.

And I want you guys to know something, which was a relief to me, frankly. People who have actually tweeted things that he didn't like, too. People who tweeted things he didn't like, and Oliver Stone has looked at the evidence, and guys, there's nothing there. He's a social conservative. He's a social

conservative. He's taken a lot of guff rolls right off the side of his shoulder the part that we didn't see at the end is that there's actually a moment where Stephen Colbert

is speechless for a good like half a second and that's the first time I've ever seen that happen in the history of Stephen Colbert's career

anyway guys I don't think JFK was on the up and up that's off that movie we should say goodbye to that yeah that's getting deleted from the library. Ollie looked pissed when they went to commercial break. He was just sitting there.

I don't think he knows what's going on, too. He seems very out of it. That was a weird... You definitely know that it was uncomfortable during the break. Whatever do you mean, John? when we come back a segment called too pathetic to be true hey don't go anywhere there's more of love it or leave it coming up and we're back we're gonna play a game called Too Stupid to be True.

Panelists, beneath your chairs, you'll find a card. Hi, what is your name? Julie. Julie. Please come up to the... We had a Julie last time. She was trouble. I like Julie.

We left on good terms, but it was touch and go. Let's be honest. Can I just say that it's a privilege and an honor and a blessing to be up here with you today. Julie, that's the level. All right, here's how the game works. We have four quotes in front of us. Now, this week there was a deeply strange cabinet meeting in which Donald Trump went around the table seeking praise from his employees. Probably not the first time he's done it. It's the first time he's done it in the cabinet room as president.

So we have pulled three real quotes. One of them is from that meeting. Two of them are similarly sycophantic musings by members of his staff in recent weeks. I've also written one, a fake one. weeks. I've also written one. A fake one. And your job, Julie, is to choose which one is too pathetic to be true. I'll start. Alright, you ready? Yes. President Trump has a magnetic

personality and exudes positive energy which is infectious to those around him. He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000. He has built great relationships throughout his life and treats everyone with respect. He is brilliant with a great sense of humor

and an amazing ability to make people feel special and aspire to be more than even they thought possible. True? Too pathetic to be true. It is true that that was said. I did hear that. That's the standard. All is true that that was said. I did hear that. Yeah, oh, that's the standard.

All of this is bullshit. Yes. Great answer. Jamil, you're up. Ronald Reagan was the great communicator, but Ronald Reagan never faced the kind of viciousness we see today, okay? So I'd argue President Trump

is also the great communicator. He knows how to get through to people. He can read people's minds and speak to their hearts like nobody else in my lifetime. And as you know, I've been doing this for a long time. That's his genius. Hey, you can laugh. The media doesn't like it, but it's not about you. It's about America. Now, I haven't heard that one. This is where I struggle, you know, based upon your previous history with this game.

But I'm going to go ahead and say that's too pathetic to be true. All right, we have two more. Let's put a pin in that, all right? Kind of get ahead of the game. Mo. Mr. President, what an incredible honor it is to lead this department at this pivotal time under your leadership. I can't thank you enough for the privileges you've given me and the leadership that you've shown. It seems like there's an international flair to the messages that are being delivered. I had the opportunity to represent the United States at the G20 and in Geneva.

And I can't tell you how excited and enthusiastic folks are about the United States leadership. Let's say that's true. You're doing very well. Nick, you're up. You should end these all with, America, fuck yeah. Don't tell me how to run my show. America, fuck yeah. All right, here we go.

We've never seen before at this point in a presidency such sweeping reassurance of American interests and the inauguration of foreign policy strategies designed to bring back the world from growing dangers and perpetual disasters borne on by yours of failed leadership. America. I'm going to go with true. That was said.

So, President Trump has a magnetic personality. You're saying that's true? In the terms of it has been said? Yes. I'm not trying to trick you. It's not a perjury trap. That's what's... I'm not going to...

No Kamala Harris. Yes. Let's cut to the chase. Julie, you've won the game. Hope Hicks said the crazy thing about Trump lighting the hearts of everyone he touches. Tom Price, Health and Human Services, said this crazy thing about the G20.

I wrote a great quote about Ronald Reagan as a great community leader. And Sean Spicer, desperate to keep his job, said this nuts thing about the sweeping reassurances, et cetera, et cetera. Julie, you've won a parachute gift card. Thank you for playing. Thank you to our panelists.

Thank you. What a wonderful game. When we come back, the rant wheel. Thank you to our panelists. Thank you. What a wonderful game. When we come back, the rant wheel. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. Now it's time for the rant wheel.

You guys know how it works. We spin the wheel. We rant about the topics. Whatever pumps up. That's the fun of it. That for the rant wheel. You guys know how it works. We spin the wheel. We rant about the topics. Whatever pumps up. That's the fun of it. That's the game. This week on the rant wheel, we have the end of the phrase fair and balanced.

It was retired today. We have the Broadway and Tony winning musical Dear Evan Hansen. I wonder who wanted to put that on there. We have Melania moves into the White House. We have lost cause statues.

We have... What does it say? Oh, Golden State Warriors. That's a basketball team that's been in the news. Beverly Center renovovations. That's hot. That's hot. I don't care where it lands.

We're going to hear about that. Yahoo changed their name to Oath. And we have the Shakespeare in the Park production of Julius Caesar. Let's roll the wheel. Melania has moved into the White House with her son, Barron. I have no problem with that. I think that's fine. I really think that given that we've spent 20 years

having incredibly invasive stories written about the relationships of our presidents, it seems insane that everywhere Melania goes, she looks like a fucking hostage and nobody writes a story about it. Even her Instagram, it looks like Rapunzel is taking the pictures. And I don't really have anything to say about that. You know, I'm sympathetic to Melania. She is married to Donald Trump. And, like, I get that decision.

I also get regretting it. is married to Donald Trump, and I get that decision. I also get regretting it. I can't remember what happened to her cyberbullying initiative. So far, though, I've not seen the results I was hoping for. It's insane that our First Lady just isn't doing anything. It's a silly, fake job, born of 300 years of sexism. But even so, I sort of realized in hindsight that I had a soft spot for it.

Mo, you want to chime in? Oh, wait. I'm just hoping. I just hope that she's going to call up Jodie Foster and be like, about that panic room. Like, how do I get one built? I mean, she does not want to hold Donald Trump's hand. Like, that seems like that's real, right? Yeah.

Look, I'm no body language expert, but like, my goodness. Yeah. I mean, not only does she not want to hold his hand, but she slapped it away. Which I get. On the red carpet. Numerous times. I'm a fan of Melania.

Let's spin it again. It has landed on Yahoo and AOL joining forces to become Oath. I'll be honest, I did not click on the story. I had one and only one reaction, which is, I understand how these kinds of dumb name things happen. You've been brainstorming for a while, and there's sort of an internal logic to the brainstorm that gets very far.

And you end up with something that only makes sense if you were there. And I just feel like I could have warned them off of that. So, or is it going to be like at, like there's going to be no like at AOLs, just so I can tell my mom, like for her email address?

Or is it going to be like at oath now? It's oath. Oath. At oath. Oath. Cool. Also for whatever reason the word oath has like very bad mouth feel. Like you don't want to say like

It just feels like it should always be said like oath. Yeah I kind of also associate it with like fundamentalism. I have like a bad connotation. There's oath keepers. Haven't all these businesses lately been like really terrible names? Like Tronk. Yeah, Tronk.

Again, Tronk is a great example. I understand how that mistake happened. I'm sure you can, a group of people can get excited about any stupid name if you've been brainstorming names for a while. I gotta tell you, if you guys heard some of the names that were almost the name of a little show called Pod Save America, you would be horrified.

Pod Save America came from left field and spared us some real blunders. Do you have one you can share? Yeah, Oath. We were going to call it Tronk. What were some of the alternatives?

There was... Jesse has a phone full of them. Read the dumbest one, Jesse. Tronk Jr. Tronk Jr., that sucked. Only one of us. Woke Jews wouldn't even make sense. I'm the only Jewish person there. We can tell because of our personalities.

And how they look alright let's spin it again hot alright listen for the people listening at home you're gonna have to bear with us for a second. It's landed on Beverly Center renovations, and I hope you can just enjoy this, because

I'm sure somewhere in your community there is a mall that has been being renovated for the better part of a millennia. The Beverly Center is the ugliest building in the history of humankind, and that's, look, that happens. The Beverly Center is the ugliest building in the history of humankind. And that's, look, that happens.

As far as I can tell, La Cienega has been down to one lane. Beverly's been down to one lane. Third Street's a fucking mess. And as far as I can tell, they're painting it white. I've been in there. Inside, it's worse than the outside.

It looks like whoever was in charge of doing the Beverly Center ran out of money and skipped town. It looks like Trump is renovating the Beverly Center. And I've been in there, and it's like, okay, a fresh coat of paint. It looks like they changed the shape of some of the windows. Five fucking years.

$500 million, is that right? No. Yeah, it's a big, big number. That is crazy. Oh my God, just so that the Club Monaco has a better line of sight to the fucking Prada. They're gonna have fancy restaurants. Oh good, fancy restaurants.

You know what? Don't fix what's not broken. There's a goddamn California pizza kitchen on the first floor. And where did it go? Why did that have to be sacrificed on the altar of the longest paint job in the history of fucking the United States?

Have you ever tried to go to Joe's? There was a Chipotle down there. There was the Cheesecake Factory Alternative. That's not the Cheesecake Factory, but it's close enough and you can get there. I'm not going to Beverly Hills to the fucking tiny Cheesecake Factory. I've got this big Grand Lux Cafe.

Beverly Center, what are they doing? Do you want to spit it one more time? All right, one more time. We can't? Oh, we can, yeah. I wanted to go back to Beverly. It has landed on fair and balanced, the term that Fox has dropped this week.

And I think it's nice of them, you know? You know, it's a long time coming. It actually speaks to where the Republican Party has gone because fair and balanced was the original because Fair and Balanced was the original troll. It was the original say of like, this whole network's about saying fuck you to liberals. We're fair and balanced. But deep down, everybody knows we're not. That's part

of the fun. And then that's what became of the movement. Propaganda works. Can I ask a question speaking of Fair and Balanced? Has anyone ever watched a Fox and Friends show? Oh, yes. And what... What's it like? I can't... Does anyone ever watch a Fox and Friends show? Oh, yes. No.

What's it like? What's it like? You know what it is? Fox and Friends is like the three dumbest employees at a company have all been told that one of them will be fired and it will be decided in this conversation. And the person that is making the decision is a racist. That's how it reads.

I'm glad I don't watch it. Thanks everybody for coming out. I want to thank our panel, Jameel Smith, Mo Welsh, Nick Bilton. We got into some hard stuff today. And I think we're wiser for it. I'm going to keep talking until the music starts. Thanks everybody for coming.

Have a great night. That's it. The show's over. It's done. Loving or leaving, just loving or leaving. We'll be right back. Love it or leave it, just love it or leave it Just make me up, up, up