Lovett or Leave It - OBAMAGATE-GATE!

Episode Date: May 16, 2020

Trump floats a conspiracy without a theory. Supreme Court Justices struggle with microphones. And Elon Musk will build Teslas or else. This week in the closet, Adam Conover joins to judge the monologue, listeners share their minor frustrations, and Patrick Radden Keefe investigates a classic rock anthem that may have been written by the CIA. Oh and masks make you look weak? Tell it to Patrick Swayze in Point Break!

Welcome to the 10th episode of Love It or Leave It, Back in the Closet. Back, back, back, back, back in the closet. Well, you're on with John, it's happening. Back, back into the closet. Back, back, back. Back, back into the closet. Show us your beans. Bring me as many beans as you can carry.

Back, back into the closet. beans as you can carry. That song was sent by Jeremy Pado. We want to use a new one each week. If you want to make one, send it to us at hey at crooked.com and maybe we'll use yours and you can tweet it at me. They've been awesome and we're really grateful for everybody that sent them in. Later in the show, we'll be joined by listeners and journalist Patrick Radden Keefe. But first, he's the host of Adam Ruins Everything and the podcast Factually with Adam Conover. Please welcome back to the show, Adam Conover. Hi, thank you for having me back. How you doing?

I'm doing okay. Trying to keep comedy moving from inside my house. Doing my best. Somebody has to. Yeah. Somebody has to. Yeah. Somebody has to. Adam has graciously agreed to join for the monologue in which he will see what he thinks of these jokes.

I'm very excited to do this. You know, in my capacity as a television showrunner, I give a lot of notes. So I'll treat you like a staff writer in your first year and go to town on you, make you cry and quit the business. Oh, that's good. I've always wanted to try being a realtor. Let's get into it. What a week. On Monday, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell criticized former President Obama for not leaving behind a game plan for the coronavirus pandemic. This is just like how Lincoln failed to stop 9-11.

It tracks. It tracks. McConnell later had to apologize when it was pointed out that the Obama administration had, in fact, left behind that exact plan, a document that lays out a comprehensive strategy for the government over 69 pages. Nice. I could tell. I could tell Travis Hillwig wrote these jokes, wow, like right off the bat. It's like if there's a 69 in the setup, like you're not getting a different pitch from Travis. All you're getting is nice. Yeah, I suppose we could have gone a little bit further.

Yeah, there might have been. Could have explored the idea. I mean, there's a lot of funny stuff in there you could talk about. I mean, there's a lot of funny stuff in there you could talk about. In Texas, a Republican attorney general is looking to the state Supreme Court to prevent the use of mail imbalance in five Democratic counties, saying the state's election code does not permit an otherwise healthy person to vote by mail merely because going to the poll carries some risks to public health. Adam, because you're here today, I'm actually not going to do a joke. I want to walk you through in the spirit of an Adam Conover deep dive, what's actually going on here. All right.

So we checked out what the Republican Secretary of State says in Texas, and here's what she says on the website. To be eligible to vote by mail in Texas, you must be 65 years or older, you must be disabled, you must be out of the country on election day and during the period for early voting by personal appearance, or you must be confined in jail but otherwise eligible. She leaves out being super duper pregnant, which is also qualifies. But just for fun, let's go to the actual Texas law. Here's what it says. Election code, Title VII early voting, Subtitle A early voting, Chapter 82, eligibility for early voting, Section 82, part two, disability.

Here's the text. I'm going to cut this down to the relevant language. A qualified voter is eligible for early voting by mail if the voter has a physical condition that prevents the voter from appearing at a polling place on election day without a likelihood of injuring the voter's health. So that seemed pretty cut and dry to me some have antibodies some don't those vulnerable have a condition your immune system is not prepared for the virus what do you think that makes sense i think the physical condition right now yeah is having a body that uh covet 19 can get inside seems like it to me being being extended in space, having a circulatory system is a condition that makes you vulnerable if you go. That tracks.

Yeah, I mean, we recognize that if somebody is immunocompromised for a variety of reasons, they should be eligible. It's clearly a physical condition, clearly a disability. Well, we're all compromised unless we have the antibodies. And if 90, let's say if 95% of people had the antibodies and there's a smaller population of people vulnerable, it wouldn't even be a question. We would, of course, recognize that as a condition. It's the scale of the risk that makes these Republicans want to prevent the vote by mail. Anyway, a judge in Travis County agreed that lack of immunity qualifies as a disability

under the law and thousands have requested ballots by checking the disability box, which is all you have to do. So you don't have to describe your disability, obviously. You don't have to write in what your condition is. You just have to say, yes, I meet the threshold for disability. The judge said this counts. People have been following that rule. And election officials can't check.

They don't go house to house. So really what's happening is Republican officials are mad and trying to get the Texas Supreme Court to upend this process that's following the law and common sense. Adam, are you ready for the... This is a lot of facts, and I'm now going to end with a terrible joke. I'm ready for it. Just an absolutely brutal, brutal, treacly, partisan, knee-jerk, stomach-churning, fucking terrible joke. Here go i'm i lived through the 69 so i think i can handle it so republicans are are refusing to follow the law and common sense but if republicans follow the

law and common sense they'd be democrats oh my god what the fuck? My girlfriend's wonderful, wonderful 88-year-old father who loves puns and talks at length and is hard of hearing and hates Trump and forwards long emails with political cartoons in them would not tell that joke, would have too much self-respect. Yeah, it's a brutal joke. It's a brutal joke, and I'm really sorry. I'm just really, really sorry. Meanwhile, Elon Musk defied local lockdown orders by reopening his Tesla factory, and thanks to their autopilot feature, those cars can keep driving long after we've all died of COVID-19. Now, Adam, I wanted to actually ask you about this. So Tesla and local-

I like that one. I know you like that one. I know that's a sweet spot for you. Tesla and local officials have settled their differences and the county has approved a plan that allows Tesla to operate under some safety guidelines and they're going to check and make sure they're following these protocols. But it started because it became a controversy because as always, Elon Musk behaves like an absolute goober on Twitter. Yeah. What do you think is going on? Why is somebody like Elon Musk behaving so foolishly online? I mean, he's denying the virus exists. He's denying the virus's severity. He's denying the science about the virus

because he stands to benefit if we ignore it because he wants to keep his car factory running and he personally gains a lot of money. He has a bonus based on the stock price and based on the performance of the company. So it's quite straightforward. He's acting in very naked self-interest and he, of course, will not get sick.

So it's not at all a difficult explanation. He just wants more money. I guess I mean in the larger sense, Elon Musk starts a company that becomes PayPal. He starts SpaceX. He starts Tesla. These are incredibly impressive businesses. All right?

Clearly somebody... Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're fine. SpaceX, great. These are incredibly impressive businesses. All right. Clearly somebody. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're fine. SpaceX. Great. NASA says we're going to get out of the space exploration. We're going to contract with private companies.

SpaceX shows up and says, we'll take the money. Great business. Made a lot of money. But, you know, I'm just saying PayPal. Cool. I send money to my mom. Occasionally I use it. Click on it instead of my credit card company, you know? But here's the thing. I think that there is a desire now to cut down the scale of

those achievements because we've come to dislike Elon Musk and find him to be such a ridiculous figure. I'll disagree with you. Elon Musk, people say he's a genius. He's a genius at one single thing. He's a genius at personal myth-making about himself. And he had 10 years of portraying himself as a Thomas Edison-level genius in the media. The media swallowed it uncritically for a full decade. And then he started exposing himself, as you say, as a goober. And in retrospect, it's making us all realize,

oh, this was all bullshit the whole time. He's a successful tech entrepreneur in PayPal. And in retrospect, it's making us all realize, oh, this was all bullshit the whole time. He's a successful tech entrepreneur in PayPal. He's rolling that advantage into some other businesses. That doesn't mean that he knows shit about diseases, about artificial intelligence, about rescuing children from tunnels. So, you know, I mean, look, he's a successful businessman. Why do we have to like constantly suck him off and say, oh, but he's so impressive. Oh, so impressive. We don't.

We don't. I'm not incredibly impressed by the businesses. I'm not looking to embrace the myth, but I do think the truth lies somewhere in the middle because I do think that the Tesla, SpaceX, these are more than just, I mean, these are incredibly impressive achievements. He's now built a electric car company that has produced electric cars faster than other companies thought possible ahead of the major auto companies. I mean, that's an incredibly impressive feat that may not be born of unique Thomas Edison

like genius, but it is born of a, of a set of traits that are far beyond the kind of traits he demonstrates in his behavior online. I would just characterize them as, rather than, oh, wow, he invented electric cars, it's good marketing, right? Tesla is primarily excellent marketing, for example. And so that's where I quibble with all this. And by the way, Teslas are fucking lemons. My brother-in-law owns one.

He hates it because it falls apart. He can't get it fixed. They're lemons right uh the the company has has transparently not been operating particularly well for most of its life so very happy that for it to kick start you know the electric car revolution if you want to do an hour podcast on elon musk i certainly can do it but you were driving towards a point i was i was i'm just interested in your thoughts on this. I mean, the rockets land standing up. It's so cool. All right. right and b again he's a contractor for the federal government we don't go like oh wow fucking lockheed like invented missiles that nobody else could invent no the government was

like we need some missiles here's a couple billion dollars to build some missiles they built them okay right that's what spacex is it's a government contractor we're paying to make him a billionaire it's our money they're just the land standing up in other news, Adam, Princeton University announced its first black valedictorian in its almost 300 year history. When reached for comment, the president of the university said, our bad. That would be the, that would be the least, that would be the least he could say. Princeton is an HWCU in its defense. Here's my question.

Do you think that the university president in this joke is saying our bad because it took 300 years or our bad that they let one black student become valedictorian i think once you put it that way it makes the joke much better it makes the joke much our bad not no no not because it took so long because we oh sorry we Oh, sorry. We don't know how we got in here. Yeah, we don't know how we let this happen. Paul Manafort, President Trump's former campaign chairman, was released Wednesday to serve his prison term under home confinement because of coronavirus fears.

Finally, Paul Manafort catches a break. It's more of an aside. It's just sort of a little droll comment. Poor guy. He's suffered so much. If you're upset he got released, just remember, Ellen DeGeneres said being at home is like jail too. Ellen DeGeneres, I mean, she and Paul probably get along.

They could probably be best friends, right? I mean, they don't agree on everything, but, you know, probably they'd probably be friends. She likes people like that. She likes people like that. Yeah, they go to the football games. On Wednesday, a conservative majority in the Wisconsin Supreme Court struck down the governor's extension of the state's stay-at-home order. Within hours, bars were packed. To be fair, I've been to Wisconsin, and those people have never cared about their health.

Cheese curds are the coronavirus of foods. You know, that's a very cavalier way to talk about the mounting public health crisis in Wisconsin. It's true that due to dietary issues, it's got one of the highest death rates in the nation. I believe I've read this. But, you know, yeah, let's all joke, John. Let's all joke about the fact that the people of Milwaukee don't have access to proper food.

That, yeah, it's a food desert. And they're eating subsidized corn put in their mouths by our government. And they're all getting diabetes and dying. Sure. Let's say, ha ha. All right. They like cheese there.

All right, Adam. Jesus. I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were fucking marching. Just telling a fucking joke. This is my one issue. I got. Public Health of Wisconsin. And you touched a nerve to me, to be honest. Unbelievable. I got... Public Health of Wisconsin.

And you touched a nerve to me, to be honest. Unbelievable. I'm sorry. This week, a new sound was heard during oral arguments at the Supreme Court. And what the FCC has said is that when the subject matter of the call ranges to this topic, then the call is transformed. It's a nice change of pace because usually when Clarence Thomas takes a dump on the Constitution, it's a metaphor.

Now here's my, now I'm sorry, here's my question, and I love the joke. Here's my question. Is that, uh, Clarence Thomas, if we heard the toilet flush, then the Constitution must be in the toilet? There is a logical problem inside of the joke. You really want it to be something.

Help me fix it. I have a pitch. He wipes his ass with the Constitution. He takes a shit in the toilet, then he wipes his ass with it. That's it. Puts the Constitution in the toilet, flushes. That's exactly right.

Usually when Clarence Thomas wipes his ass with the Constitution, it's a metaphor. That cleans it up completely. That's how you get to be you. You know, that's how he gets there. Now, Ashley Feinberg at slate did a little sleuthing and her guess was that it was

actually just a Stephen Breyer's toilet based on his troubles with the microphone. Though it's hard to tell because the loudest sound in the audio recordings is actually RBG's bones begging to be set free. Adam, Adam, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. The loudest sound was Antonin Scalia's goats shouting, I was murdered. Wow. We're out on the wing here. Jokes, just jokes, jokes, jokes. RBG's bones. Also this week, Anthony Fauci testified before Congress saying the following. So I would think when you're calling upon people to perform essential services, you really have almost a moral responsibility to make sure they're well taken care of and well protected.

And again, that's not an official proclamation. That's just me speaking as a physician and as a human being. This was a breathtaking moment where a member of the federal government bravely admitted to being a human being. Fauci is giving off powerful Jewish mom energy. I don't think we should let essential workers die, but I'm only your mother. Why should you care what I think? That's good.

I feel like that's, it's okay. I think it's weak. I'll be honest, the thing about powerful energy, too much Twitter speak. Get the Twitter speak out of your jokes. I agree. I feel like that's, um, it's okay. I think it's weak. I'll be honest with you. Powerful energy, too much Twitter speak. Get the Twitter speak out of your jokes. I agree. I agree. I agree.

I agree. You know what? I think you're right. Rand Paul, the senator who was beaten up by his neighbor over a leaf dispute, possibly, responded this way. And as much as I respect you, Dr. Fauci, I don't think you're the end all. I don't think you're the one person that gets to make a decision. We can listen to your advice, but there are people on the other side saying there's not going to be a surge and that we can safely open the economy. When you get bad news from a doctor, it is always good to seek out

someone who tells you everything is cool. That's what Steve Jobs did. And instead of getting chemo, he got to enjoy some nice, refreshing juice. juice. Sure. Not bad. But Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs also, then people say that about him, but he also did stuff like fly around the country to skip the line for organ transplants. So he both, he both refused health advice and got health treatment that most of us couldn't possibly afford. He deployed his resources to the fullest, but it was that early on he refused to accept what was happening to him. Yeah, you want to go shopping for doctors. If you've seen Rand Paul, he looks like he's been shopping

for doctors. He's been looking, he's been finding Dr. Fun, you know what I mean? Take a look at him. He's like, he's got the good prescriptions. Dr. Feelgood. Yeah. Earlier this week, when asked if the presidential election might be postponed because of the pandemic, Jared Kushner said, I'm not sure I can commit one way or the other. The hot ones are never ready to commit.

I like that because the joke is labeling Jared Kushner as hot. That's what I enjoy about it. That's great. hot, but the way that he's screwed his face up, I mean, into positions over the last three or four years, kind of like various facial expressions that have become quite natural to him, have destroyed whatever remaining hotness might have been there, sort of in the tank.

He also didn't say that because he's planning on postponing the election. He's doing the classic business zero chud move of just not saying anything at any time. Ask him any question. He's not going to commit to anything. He's coasting through life by just saying, could be, we'll look into that.

Yeah, I can't commit right now, but that's a thought. Thank you for sharing. Right. He didn't understand that it was an easy one. Right. It was actually an easy answer. No. President can't postpone the election.

Only Congress can. We're having the election. President Trump spent Mother's Day pushing a new conspiracy theory called Obamagate. Trump seems to want to distract us from something. But what? Learning the lessons from 2016's obsession with Hillary Clinton's emails, journalists everywhere ignored this fake scandal that is totally divorced from any factual basis and instead focused on why Trump was attempting to bring this up now.

Just kidding. They grabbed onto that shiny worm on a hook and now we're flopping around on the deck of the USS. We're fucked. Now that one, the other joke was minimalist. This one is maximalist. There's so many words in that joke. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's what it's like. It kind of feels like the idea is a little bit thin. Like you're just saying, hey, we want them to do this. No, they didn't do that. And so instead you're like overloading it with funny words. With comedy.

With comedy. And it worked. And it worked. And it killed. And it worked. And it killed. And it worked. And it's a good joke.

It's a podcast. There's no audience. So you can allow yourself to believe that. And I shall. And finally, on Thursday, ousted Health and Human Services official and whistleblower Dr. Rick Bright spoke to Congress about the many warnings he issued before he was fired by the White House.

Here's what he had to say. We're in deep shit. The world is. And we need to act. Dr. Bright then took off his mask to reveal that he was actually Beto O'Rourke the whole time. Wait, I don't get it. I fully don't get it. Why? Because he said shit. Oh, because Beto's cursing. I think that's a little, I think we're a little past it. I

didn't even remember that about Beto. I even thought, this is literally the first time I thought about Beto O'Rourke in a full year. I haven't even thought about Joe Biden in six months. That's the, That's the goal. The goal is to just wake up and he's president. We just got to wake up and he's president and it's fine. Adam Conover, this was an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for doing this. I had a great time.

And that's all I have to say to you. You were a delight. Thank you for having me, John. Thanks for taking my notes in good form. And I'm looking forward to the revisions being on my desk tomorrow by EOD. Okay. Okay. Well, I'll see. I'll see what I can do. I'll see. I'll drop them. I'll leave them six feet from your door. Thanks so much. Thanks, John. Thanks to Adam Conover for joining. And when we come back, we're going to hear from some listeners. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. As we approach 70 days inside a little hell we call home, small annoyances have started to become big annoyances. We spent a lot of time rightly talking about the genuine suffering and pain out there because this is an unprecedented emergency for our health and our economy in the midst of an overlapping crisis in our democracy. Our problems are big. But this segment isn't about that. It's about the minor misfortunes we want to vent about but feel like it's not the time. Well, as the queen of complaining, I'm here to tell you this is a safe space. I will call listeners, and in under 30 seconds, they can tell me their petty grievances,

no matter how small. It doesn't matter how insignificant or stupid or selfish. We want to know what's upsetting you the most, but not the most. In a segment Travis stole from a hip-hop radio station in Connecticut, he heard in 2006 called, Tell Him Why You're Mad. Let's go to the phones. Let's do it. Hi, is this Caitlin? Yes.

Hi, here it comes. You're on with John. How's it going? I'm good. How are you? Great. All right. Well, it's that time. Tell them why you're mad. I would like to preface this that I'm in med school and compared to the people in my profession that are, you know, dealing through such an unprecedented time and the med students that are above me that have it much worse. So I'm prefacing that beforehand. I hate the sun. Where I'm living right now, I'm living in Indiana, and it is 708, and it is so bright outside. I'm not used to that. So I had to get evacuated in March in the middle of school, and I was used to the sun setting at six

o'clock, like on the dot every single time. And my entire day was very, very organized. And the sun, I kind of realized my whole day revolved around the sun. I'm not a fan of it. I don't like it being bright outside. It kind of messes up my day. I'm not eating at a normal time. My study times are just all over the place. Can I ask you a sort of a personal question?

Yeah. Are you a vampire? I'm not a vampire. I promise. Okay. Okay. My med school is in the Caribbean and it is sunny and 83 degrees every single day. You know, even if it rains, it's still always sunny and the sun would set immediately at like six o'clock. You like the predictability of it like an equatorial schedule yes absolutely i gotta tell you that is a predictability and consistency that is a perfect complaint for this segment because it is so petty complaining about the sun oh i also like that you're suggesting that like you're one of those people whose day revolves around the sun. It's called day. The whole idea of it revolves around the sun.

It's like, yeah, of course it does. That's our whole entire planet. We revolve around the sun. Everything revolves around the sun. What the fuck are you talking about, Caitlin? What are you even talking about? No, no. Listen.

Listen. You would think that a two-hour difference in the sun setting isn't a big deal. But when you're trying to be incredibly hyperproductive and your schedule needs to be incredibly strict, getting transplanted to where it is still fully bright outside, even almost around 9 o'clock, is just bonkers to me right now. I'm not a fan of it. I support you. I will tell you two things. One, there is some data that suggests that too late sunsets contributes to a lot of problems because it causes people to go to bed later and their day still starts at the same time. So I'm going to give you that and also thank you for what you're doing by putting yourself

in a position to help in a crisis like this by being in med school. I will also tell you something that is bothering me. Because we're all stuck at home, I've been taking group fitness classes at home. And they keep telling me to put my camera on. No, thank you. No, why? I don't want to be watched while I'm working out. I don't want to be on other people's screens. I don't think that's fair. I agree. When I'm in a big group fitness class, you know what you're going to see? You're going to see a picture of the actor John Lovitz.

That's all you're going to see. Caitlin, thank you so much for joining us and stay safe. Thank you very much. You too. Hi, is this Patrick? Yeah. Hey. You're on with John.

How's it going? Great, man. How are you? What have I told you that Travis makes me say you're on with John because he thinks that it might become merch? I would believe that. It's a good branding opportunity. Why are you mad? Well, John, I am staying in central Pennsylvania with my in-laws and everything is going great. It is a wonderful place to hunker down with a two and a half year old and a pregnant wife. Central Pennsylvania is the staying with your in-laws of places. That is accurate.

There is motion smoothing on the TV. No. There is so much going wrong in the world right now. And just trying to watch Ozarks and have it not look like some weird VHS version of itself. And I have turned it off. Uh-huh. Only to come back and find it turned back on. How are they turning it back on?

I find that hard to believe. So the mode had changed. Oh, that's how they get you. Yeah. That's how they get you because you turn it off. You turn it off on fucking input one. But there it is waiting on input two. Back in standard.

How did we get here? Where are you in Ozark? I am very early. Episode five of season one. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

That's so cool. We got to get motion smoothing off. We got to turn it off. Everybody knows that. Everybody knows they got to turn off the motion smoothing. It should be turned off and then it should be, oh, you're watching sports. There's a sports mode. Here you go. Otherwise, it's awful. It is awful. Motion smoothing exists for the in-laws television. That is why it was designed for mothers-in-law and fathers-in-law. That is who it is for. So I feel like you're the ideal use case.

Like, when Samsung had their engineers cooking up motion smoothing, they were thinking about your experience and making it worse. I'm going to tell you something that's bothering me, okay? Yeah. Dog owners trying to have our dogs meet right now. Oh, you're trying to keep your distance. You're trying to be polite. And then it's like, oh, but Clarence here, who's my

dog, really just wants to say, hey. All I know is we don't know enough about this virus. Every three days, there's a story about some kind of animal with the virus. There's basically two kinds of virus news. There's, hey, guess what? There's this incredibly scary aspect that may be associated with COVID. And two, all the tigers have it. I know, right? So I don't want my dog to meet your dog. And I know the dogs don't understand. And it's not anyone's fault. And I'm sad for Pundit that she doesn't get to meet other dogs right now. But I don't know what's going on. So we got to just keep our dogs apart. That's all. There should be some universal sign of like the head nod or a slight wave that is a thanks but no thanks. And everyone

just knows it. I agree, Patrick. Well, Patrick, thank you so much for joining. I am so sorry about the motion smoothing. It's really not right. And I hope that you can successfully turn it off in all of the television's mode, whether it's the smart TV built in Netflix or input two for the DVR box, or perhaps even input three for the PlayStation four and any of those inputs. Although I find it hard to believe your in-laws have a PlayStation four. There's yeah, there's none of that happening. All right, Patrick, thanks for joining us. Have a good one. You too. Hi, is this Taylor? Yes, this is she. Hi, Taylor. You're on with John, the slogan that we use for this segment. Oh my gosh. Tell us why you're mad. That's why we're here. Tell us why you're mad.

One thing that has been getting on my nerves lately, particularly, is this just intense pressure to be constantly coming up with something new to be doing, picking up a new hobby, or I don't know, building a side hustle or something like that. As a person who has a hard enough side functioning under normal circumstances, it's like, can a global pandemic not be the perfect reason to just, I don't know, wake up in the morning, take off my like nighttime sweatpants to put on my daytime sweatpants and just eat.

Yeah. Your version. My failed pizza. Yeah. Taylor, Taylor, for some of us getting out of bed is our sourdough. You know, for some of us brushing our teeth is our novel. Just getting through the basics while stuck at home is an achievement. And you don't want that taken away because somebody else has discovered how to use a

slow cooker to braise meat. I 100% agree. And another thing that I would just really like to know about these people is where they get all the seemingly naturally produced serotonin, because I need some more of that in my life as well because it just seems like their motivation is just go go go all the time and I just want to be able to sit on my couch after working on my uh research for maybe like two or three hours and watch true blood for the fourth time in peace again and just just revel in how weird that show is. Taylor, look, I'm very supportive of whatever you want to do, but I just,

in this golden age of streaming, there's no need to watch True Blood a second time. Oh, it's both of you to assume it's only my second. It's my go-to trash TV. Third time, fourth time, like, there have been great advances in streaming technology. We've moved beyond the True Bloods. We're in the Ozarks now. We're in the Fargo's now. We're in, you know, like there's a whole world of content waiting for you. And it's time to put True Blood, you know, where it belongs, like in the, you know, late 2000s, early teens. This is true. This is true. It just reminds me of simpler times, John.

It really does. I get it. So I think I find comfort in that, when that was the weirdest thing that was happening on TV and not, you know, politics. I'll tell you something that's bothering me, Taylor. It is the studies finding that men are more likely not to wear masks and the connected problem of conservatives and others

on Twitter saying that wearing a mask is some kind of a sign of weakness. I would point out a couple things. One, masculinity is deadly. It is a deadly, deadly condition and it kills so many people. Two, you know who wore a mask? Fucking Batman. Batman wore a mask. I don't remember anyone thinking that Batman wore a mask out of weakness. You know who else wore a mask, Taylor? I'll tell you. Who? Keanu Reeves and Patrick Swayze in a film called Point Break.

Did they wear those masks out of weakness? No. No. They wore those masks so bank robbery wouldn't interfere with surfing and skydiving. Very true. Very true. Put on a mask, people. It's not weak. It's so easy. Listening to science isn't weak, you dummies. You want to ask something else that's bothering me that I found out literally right before you called? Okay. So I'm located in Kansas City and I just found out maybe like an hour ago that the Kansas State Medical Director

has left his position in the middle of a pandemic for a job in the private sector and his last name is literally Profit. So there's that fun irony for the world. Well, Taylor, thank you for sharing that very frustrating bit of news. I hope you're staying safe. Thank you for sharing what's making you mad.

And, you know, bye, I guess. Yes. Thank you for everything. I really appreciate you calling. Enjoy the rest of your day. Please stay safe. You too. Stay safe, Taylor.

Bye. Hi, is this Sydney? Yes, this is Sydney. Hi, you're on with John. How's it going? Good. How are, Taylor. Bye. Hi, is this Sydney? Yes, this is Sydney. Hi, you're on with John. How's it going? Good. How are you? Doing okay.

So you know why you're here. Tell them why you're mad. My boyfriend started out trying to do something nice for Mother's Day. He's going to bake his mom this pie. I went to bed because he wanted to play video games, you know, usual, and wake up the next morning to the smell of burnt pie. So I woke him up and I was like, what happened to the pie last night? He's like, it just didn't turn out good.

So I found it in the trash. It was completely burnt. Now the big controversy is he still hasn't cleaned this pie dish and it has burnt pie crust all over it. And I'm not cleaning that. I mean, it's a funny thing. You know, he's doing so well starting out by trying to bake a pie crust all over it. And I'm not cleaning that. I mean, it's a funny thing. You know, he's doing so well starting out by trying to bake a pie for Mother's Day. That's such a good boyfriend thing.

And yet allowing it to burn while playing video games and then trying to hide the evidence by throwing it out is such a bad boyfriend thing. So you're really, it's a real pickle for you. Right. And I mean, he was making it to take to his mom for Mother's Day. So I wasn't even going to eat any of it.

Yeah, you weren't going to get any fucking pie. Right. I sent my mother a box of meat for Mother's Day. Oh, that's a nice gift. I just said, hey, Mom, happy Mother's Day. Here's a bunch of meat. It's hard to find. Thank you for sharing this small grievance.

It sounds like you have a very good boyfriend who occasionally also is a bad boyfriend, but that's all people, you know, that's what people are. I will tell you one thing that's been bothering me in the last, say, you know, 24 to 36 hours has been, it's not just that this idea of Obamagate is fake. It's the laziness of it. He just tweeted the word Obamagate. And then everybody just snapped to attention. They're like, yep. It's ridiculous. Sure. Why not? Obamagate. Yeah, we'll go with it. What is it? It doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't matter what it is. It's not anything or it's something who cares Obamagate. And they all went with it. They all went with it. These fucking poodles. Sydney, are you staying safe down there in Tennessee? I am. I'm

working from home. And what game is your boyfriend playing right now? Red Redemption, I think is what he's playing. Red Dead. Classic. He likes to look for the perfect pelts. He's got to get those pelts. Sydney, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for telling us

why you're mad. Yes. And stay safe. Thank you. You too. Hi, is this Sarah? Yes. Hi. Is this John? It is. You're on with John, as we say here.

How you doing? Good. How are you? Oh, my God. This is so exciting. So, look, this segment is pretty simple. Tell them why you're mad. All over the internet, on Instagram and Facebook, there are wonderful pictures of beautiful,

risen sourdough loaves. There are before and after pictures of sourdough starters that have risen dramatically within a mere few hours. And so I decided to hop on the bandwagon. I am not a novice baker by any means. In my friend group, I have a bit of a reputation to uphold in some ways because I love baking macarons. I'm known as a Hufflepuff. I love baking. I made a delicious lemon poppy seed cake the other day. Just you saying macaroon is going to mean that you've now lost the audience. It is your job from here on out to try to win them back. Keep going. No, no. Okay. My point is I've made really finicky,

like, you know, takes a lot of patience to bake things. So I thought, okay, a sourdough starter, this should be fun. It'll be like a little science experiment. And I watched a ton of YouTube videos, like everything from Bon Appetit to America's Test Kitchen, found like a very meticulous feeding schedule that I was going to use that I've like been following to a T, like religiously following this feeding schedule. And I have utterly failed. It's so sad. And it's, it's really frustrating because on the one hand, I'm like, why am I even doing this? Like I can make bread without wild yeast from a sourdough starter. Doesn't need to be sour.

No. And then the other thing is that it's a sunk cost at this point. Like I've invested so much time and resources. I've gone through three bags of flour. That's 15 pounds of flour. Just trying to keep this up with feeding it every day. And this isn't the only living thing I'm taking care of. I got a cat during quarantine. I'm sorry. Are you making, are you trying to make sourdough for an army barrack?

What are you doing? Why are you going through so much flour? What are you talking about? I think you're using too much flour. No, no, John, John, you have to, you have to feed it every day. And when you feed it, you discard most of the starter. It is the most wasteful, unsustainable project I have ever taken on. I didn't know about that. Wait, so you don't even end up with bad bread. You end up with nothing. Right. Exactly. So I every day, because you have to do it for three weeks, you have to do it for like two to three weeks, feeding it every day, which basically means dumping out most of the sourdough starter, adding new flour and water to it the next day, adding more flour and water to it,

and so on and so forth, right? Is the starter, like the starter is just what, the thing that you use to, what is it? So starter is basically a yeast colony that is in flour and water. And so you could buy like a dehydrated flour dough starter to start it. But what a lot of people on the internet have been doing because we're all in quarantine and have, you know, a lot more free time on our hands. We can make our own starter with just two ingredients. And it sounds super simple. And that's the other thing that's driving me nuts. starter with just two ingredients. And it sounds super simple. And that's the other thing that's driving me nuts is all these YouTube videos say easy sourdough starter or like sourdough for

beginners. Can't believe it's so easy. And it is the farthest thing from it. Yeah, it sounds bad. Have you considered just not doing any of this and watching True Blood? No, I haven't. And that's the thing is that it's a sunk cost, right? Should I just keep going and trying? The whole point of a sunk cost is you don't keep going. That's why you call it a sunk cost. I got a cat around the same time. And the cat is less costly and easier to take care of than this sourdough starter. Are you Zooming with friends or is it just the dough and the cat? No, I'm here with my boyfriend.

Okay, good. And I've been having virtual happy hours with friends as well. Okay, I just want to make sure it's not just you and Doe because there's a frenetic tone to your voice that makes me a little bit worried about you. Because again, if you're going through 15 pounds of flour and have nothing to show for it, I do think something's gotten a bit out of kilter, you know? And I keep reading online these troubleshooting things. They're like, just keep going. It just takes patience. You know, maybe wait another week. But that's another week's worth of flour.

Just a lot. It just seems like it shouldn't take that much flour. But listen, you're the expert. You're the one making macrons, as you say. Sarah, I just want to wish you all the best. Again, I would say consider streaming a television show. Consider doing nothing. I buy bread from the supermarket. That's one thing I do. Just a couple of different directions you could go. Use the flour to bake a cake. I have to get done. It's become my white whale if I have to accomplish this thing.

Yeah. You know they try to kill the whale. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us. Stay safe. And thanks for telling them why you're mad. Yeah. Thank you so much. Take care. When we come back, we'll be joined by journalist Patrick Radden Keefe.

Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. He's an author, investigative journalist, and the host of Crooked Media's new podcast, Wind of Change. Please welcome Patrick Radden Keefe. Patrick, how's it going? Good, man. So first, can you just tell us a little bit about Wind of Change, the song, and then the story that you've been chasing down that became this podcast? Yeah, absolutely. So the song may or may not be familiar to people. It's a metal ballad from 1990 by this group, the Scorpions, which is like a kind of a hair metal band from West Germany.

And the song was became kind of the soundtrack to the fall of the Berlin Wall came out just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, and really the soundtrack to the collapse of the Berlin Wall, came out just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, and really the soundtrack to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Hugely popular across Europe. It was a number one hit all across Europe. And it was all about the end of communism, basically. The collapse of that whole system and this idea that change was coming. I actually hadn't known the song growing up, but I was kind of ambiently familiar with it.

But it's like one of the biggest rock songs ever, particularly in Europe. And almost 10 years ago, this guy that I knew, a good friend of mine sent me an email and he said, you have to look this up. I just had dinner last night with a friend of mine who is an ex CIA officer. And this guy told me that the Skorkins didn't write that song. The CIA did. And so that was the birth of this thing. And that was 2011. I got that email. And so you've been chasing this down for basically a decade. I have.

One of the things that is fascinating about the podcast is, you know, you talk to these people and their first response is they laugh and they say, that's crazy. And then they say, but it's actually pretty plausible because of all the shit the CIA got up to during the Cold War. Can you talk a little bit about some of the other stories you uncovered about why this story is plausible because of the ways in which the CIA was intervening, not just in politics, not just in governance, but also in culture. Yeah, absolutely. And for me, this was one of the big revelations was when I first heard this story from my friend Michael in 2011, I was just like, bullshit, there's just no way, couldn't possibly be. And then I started looking into it

and looking at the history of the way in which culture and popular culture was kind of a front in the Cold War. And it was specifically for the CIA. So you go back to the 50s. And it's kind of funny, actually, because originally the CIA, it's, you know, all these white guys who went to Yale, basically, who really comprise high culture. really comprise high culture. And so initially it's like the Boston Symphony Orchestra and abstract expressionism. And, you know, they're promoting like the Paris Review and Jackson Pollock.

And they're like, this is the way we're going to win arts and minds. Just a bunch of fucking Jared Kushners from another era bumbling their way into being ineffective. Bumbling their way through. And their sense that, yeah, that Jackson Pollock is going to be, you know, he's the avant-garde in the battle against the Soviets. But there's also all these instances in which the U.S. government is kind of harnessing popular culture and music specifically. So we tell a story in the podcast about Louis Armstrong. In the 50s and 60s,

you have this situation in which a big part of Soviet propaganda about the U.S. is pointing out correctly that while the U.S. sort of boasts that it's this haven of freedom and democracy, in fact, you know, it's a Jim Crow country. these black jazz musicians to go on these international tours abroad. And since the Middle East to Africa, and so we tell a story about Louis Armstrong going to the Congo just after independence. There was a real concern in the US that we didn't want Congo to align with the Soviets. And so we sent him there on a tour. There's another story that we told him, you know, in that case, like Louis Armstrong knows, and he had misgivings about it. He's pretty uncomfortable about his role as, as this like front man for the United States. We also tell a story about Nina Simone, the amazing singer Nina Simone, who in 1961 goes to Nigeria, she's sent there on a tour by this foundation. And it turns out the foundation was a front for the CIA. So Nina Simone, who had

pretty radical politics and was not going to be, you know, she would not have knowingly been a spokesperson for the United States. She goes to Nigeria and performs in this festival. And unbeknownst to her, this whole thing has been set up effectively by the CIA. Yeah, you know, it's interesting, you know, as you listen to the podcast, you realize that like you're kind of not just going back into 90s music, but this other era of conspiracy theories, this period of time where there were these nefarious government agents considered to be incredibly powerful, incredibly good at what they do. There's a whole body of culture around that. The Pakula films you have included. You have Parallax View. You have Sidney Pollack making Three Days of the Condor.

Sidney Pollack making Three Days of the Condor. That's all rooted in this idea that like there's some knowing, extremely competent, extremely capable and nefarious power at work just beneath the surface. Right now, we have a kind of different form of conspiracism that's sort of taken hold, which is a kind of wilder, bottom up, pizza gate. Conspiracy theory is born not of a government in control, but a conspiracy theory about things falling apart. What lessons did you draw in looking at this kind of Cold War era conspiracy theory idea, some of which are true, right? Some of which are borne out by the facts and the kind of new ways in which conspiracy theories are like spreading wildly right now. Yeah, it's so fascinating.

I thought about this a lot. There's that older paradigm of the government's conspiracy in which the government is genuinely all powerful and omniscient. And there's an element of that even in this story. I interviewed a bunch of ex-spies. element of that even in this story. I interviewed a bunch of ex-spies and it was funny because I should say like, you know, you say to them, hey, could it be possible if the CIA wrote Wind of Change? And nobody said to me immediately, like, no way, it could never happen. We wouldn't do it or we couldn't do it. Like the plausibility was completely taken for granted by everybody. But there was this other thing that was really interesting, which is a lot of these ex-CIA people

But there was this other thing that was really interesting, which is a lot of these ex-CIA people said, I hope it's true, because that sounds so competent. It sounds like such a win. So cool. helping engineer coups. It was impressive in a pretty morally shady way, the degree to which the U.S. was able to kind of move these levers. I think it's so different now. The other element in this cocktail that was the show is it's, you know, this podcast is largely escapism. It's fun. It's about the Cold War. There's a ton of music. It feels like a caper. It's funny. But the flip side is it's all about influence operations and the ongoing fight between Russia and the United States. And so for me, there was this like a little bit of self-consciousness as I was going through this, where the whole story, the idea that like the CIA is writing pop songs to influence

Soviet youth sounds like a Russian conspiracy theory about the United States. And so, you know, I felt like I had to handle that delicately because these issues are still really potent today, right? One of the reasons people might be excited about the idea of Wind of Change being written by the CIA is it's just a good fucking song that, like, got people going. Yeah. And, like, we're now on the opposite side of it, watching what happens when another country behaves inside of the United States, the way we behaved during

the Cold War toward others. Absolutely. And there's, I mean, those kinds of echoes run throughout the show. There's a, there's an interview I did with a guy who was a former clandestine officer in, in the agency who worked on Russia stuff. And he was talking about how in some respects, if you look at the Scorpion story, Wind of Change, but then also you look at that in the kind of broader context of the CIA, just pulling out all the stops at the end of the Cold War to do anything it could to knock down this, you know, what turned out to be kind of a paper tiger with the USSR. We tell the story of like young Vladimir Putin, who's this young KGB agent in Dresden. And there's this terrifying moment for him where he's basically like the wall has fallen and the KGB station gets

stormed by East Germans. And he calls for reinforcements from the Red Army. And the guy basically says, like, we can't send reinforcements. We keep asking Moscow for help. And Moscow is silent. And the idea that that so demoralized Putin, that there's a sense in which you can read everything that's happening now as his revenge, right? It's like it kind of comes back to get us. Yeah, it's interesting because in the podcast, in hindsight, you say, oh, here are the inevitable signs of the Soviet collapse, right? You go back and you look and you see the pieces that make it clear that things were falling apart, but that

inside of the CIA, people were behaving as if this war would never end. And they were willing to try things and do things. And it sounds like there were those on the other side who were just as surprised by the speed of the collapse. Yeah, absolutely. And that was, it was something that was important for me to try and capture, because I was a kid when all this happened. I was in high school. But I think that there is a sense in which we tend to look back on history and think of these things as kind of progressing naturally. Of course, the Soviet Union fell apart. For me, initially, when I started wondering this question about wind of change, I was just thinking, why would the CIA do this in 89, 90, when it's all going to fall apart soon anyway? Right.

It's on its last legs. Change was already coming. You already had Gorbachev in there. And then I talked to a bunch of people who said that was not the way it seemed to us at all. We took it for granted that the Soviet empire was going to be there. It was this massive army. It was the other big force. We thought it would be that way for the rest of our lives. And surely I think people like Putin felt the same

way. And so I think there are kind of all sorts of interesting ways in which both sides are still reckoning with the fallout from that collapse. One last question. When we were first hearing about this podcast, I was like, I know that song and I hit play and like the whistling at the front, like, okay, like that sounds really familiar, but like if you, I would have no idea that it was an anthem considered transformative, important in the changing of global politics. Like now that you've spent so much time on the origins of this song, what is your lesson on the song itself and its role in the culture? Why? I mean, it's a hard and maybe impossible question, but what was it about this song, this kind

of odd metal song with a deeply strange beginning and melody that caught such fire and is considered to be so influential? Some of it with Wind of Change, I think, had to do with the band and this weird thing. Again, something I hadn't really realized, which is that through most of the Cold War, rock and roll was effectively illegal in the Soviet Union. The Kremlin thought this kind of music is too closely associated with the United States. It's all about freedom and free expression and kind of personal self-determination. And all these things are inimical to what we're doing. And so it was a bit rebellious just to listen to rock

music. And the Scorpions were this band where you couldn't buy their records legally in the USSR, but everything was on tape and it would get on the black market. It was like viral on the black market. So all across the Soviet Union, you have people listening to basically these like bootleg Scorpions tapes. And so this song then comes and it's all about kind of ending the system that so many people have been living with as they're grinding reality for decades. And I just think it spoke to people. And I think, you know, it was, it was in some ways a kind of a humbling experience for me as like a glib, ironic American,

in the sense that for me when I was going into this project, Wind of Change was a bit of a punchline. You know, part of what I think is fun about the podcast is there's a lot of just like heavy metal theatrics and ridiculousness, and it's very campy and silly. And I think that's fun and funny. But, you know, I went to a Scorpions show. They're still touring. And I went to a Scorpions show in Kiev in Ukraine. And I was tailgating with a bunch of fans beforehand, and talking to people about what the song means to them. And it was one of these amazing moments where I realized, I'm the asshole. I thought this was this kind of goofy, sentimental, silly song. And in fact, it was this huge transformative

anthem for them. So I think there's something about the song. But in fact, it was this huge transformative anthem for them. So I think there's something about the song. But then the interesting thing is even outside of that context, I mean, in Mongolia, it's like a protest song. And at one point, the Scorpions went and played the DMZ. You know, it was like an anthem for reconciliation in North Korea and in South Korea. So it has taken on a weird life of its own, which makes it all the more interesting to wonder about, you know, what that might suggest about the hidden hand of government.

Well, Patrick, thank you so much for coming on. I really, really hope everybody goes to Spotify. You can subscribe and listen to all the episodes there right now, and you will want to listen to them all in order because it is fascinating. There is spying, there is music, there is metal. It is fantastic. Patrick, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you. Great talking. Patrick Radden Keefe. When we come back, we'll end on a high note. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up.

And we're back. So for those of you who've had a hard week, here it is, this week's High Notes submitted by our listeners. Hi, Lovett. This is Lena from Portland, Oregon. So I was supposed to have a birthday party, which was obviously canceled. But the thing that gave me hope was my friends organized a birthday scavenger hunt for me around the neighborhood where I had to climb a tree to get some chapstick and I found some champagne hidden in a drain. And it was really fun and social distance friendly and it made me feel really loved. Love the Joe. Thank you. Bye. Hi, love it. My name is Lucy and I'm from Indianapolis. My high note is all the research that my medical school has been doing on COVID and how innovative these projects are. Right now, I'm volunteering on a study that basically started

as soon as the Institutional Review Board could approve it, where we're delivering testing kits to folks around Indianapolis in order to track asymptomatic people in our community living with COVID. We already have at least 50 participants and over 20 medical students have volunteered to help deliver these kits around the city. And it's really amazing what my colleagues are doing to further our understanding of this virus. Thanks. Hello, John. This is Cecilia calling from Brookline, Massachusetts. Thank you for your show and all of the joy it brings. What's giving me hope this week is my fiance, Malcolm, who's a member of Brookline's

town meeting, which is our town's legislative body. He has been working nonstop to coordinate the town's first ever remote community meetings, ensuring that our constituents' voices are heard and that our communities stay informed during this challenging time, an incredibly important election year. From advertising the events to ensuring all of the necessary officials are participating, creating a slide deck, and educating non-digital natives on how to use Zoom, it's truly amazing to see how much good one person can do in their community and a reminder that it only takes one person to bring about change. Anna from Minnesota. And my high note this week is not only am I graduating with my master's in social work this week, but I also was offered the job I really wanted at my internship site.

So I get to provide therapy to people in person and currently over a Zoom-style therapy session. But I'm really excited to continue to help people and that I'm finishing my master's. Thanks for all that you do. Thanks to all of our listeners who submitted those great high notes. If you want to leave us a message about something that gave you hope, you can call us at 424-341-4193. That's our show. It is 171 days until the election. Sign up for Vote Save America right now to defeat Donald Trump, keep the House, and win back the Senate. Thank you to Adam Conover,

Patrick Radden Keefe, and to all of the listeners who joined our show. Thank you to our grocery workers, truck drivers, and delivery people. Thank you to our doctors and nurses. And thank you to our whole staff working to keep this show going out and Crooked going strong. Have a great weekend. Love It or Leave It is a product of Crooked Media. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett, Elisa Gutierrez, Lee Eisenberg, and our head writer, former Mike Bloomberg speechwriter, Travis Helwig. Jocelyn Kaufman, Alicia Carroll, and Peter Miller are the writers. Bill Lance is our audio editor, and Stephen Colon is our sound engineer.

Sydney Rapp is our assistant producer, and August Dichter is our intern. Our theme song is written and performed by Sure Sure. Thanks to our designers, Jesse McLean and Jamie Skeel, for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast, and to our digital producers, Nar Melkonian and Yale Freed,

for filming and editing video each week so you can.