Lovett or Leave It - OpenAI-ing Pandora's Box

Episode Date: September 11, 2026

Trump makes America an offer we can refuse at the Republican midterm convention; Zohran Mamdani reminds Rudy Giuliani who the actual mayor of New York is, and Anthropic shrugs its shoulders at the end of the world. This week, Katie Porter looks back at her campaign for governor, before reading Lovett for filth. Larry Wilmore keeps it 100, and then some. The Rant Wheel steers us through the choppy waters of giant strollers, billionaire taxes, and calling Trump stupid, and we double down on our Second Thoughts. Hate listening to ads? Become a Friends of the Pod subscriber for ad-free episodes of Pod Save America, Pod Save the World, Lovett or Leave It, Runaway Country, Offline with Jon Favreau, and more—plus exclusive content, including bonus episodes of Pod Save America. Subscribe now at crooked.com/friends, on Apple Podcasts, or through the Pod Save America YouTube channel.You can request a transcript by emailing [e-mail]. Include the podcast name, episode title, and air date. Please allow 48 hours for delivery.

Love it or Leave it is brought to you by Mitt Mobile. As kids, the end of summer, meant back to reality, homework, teachers, early alarms. As adults, summer freedom never has to end. Thanks to Mint Mobile's summer sale. And let's be honest, still having zero homework is pretty great too. Right now, all of Mint's plans are $15 per month, even unlimited. So free yourself from big wireless and their gimmicks and gotchas and switch to Mint for high speed data and coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network.

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I was a speechwriter for Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, and this is America's number one late-night political gay live comedy podcast and technically television show by the, just by the skin of our teeth. And we've got a great show for you. tonight, but first, let's get into it. What a week. Republicans held their first ever midterm convention in Dallas, which got off to a strong start when one of the L's in the word Dallas immediately fell off

the podium. By morning, Google had changed the spelling of Dallas on all of their maps. But not to worry, as things soon took a turn for the normal. Here's South Carolina Senator Tim Scott's speech. But Texas, we know who God is. We're talking.

about Jesus, the Lord of America. Again, this is an event about the midterms. Now, people can mock him, but this is exactly what you sound like right after you've had sex for the first time. Scott continued. I think it will actually be hard to explain to future generations that the goal of this speech

is to keep the top marginal tax rate below 40%. and prevent lowering the age of eligibility on public health insurance? Also, if you're going to do a speech where you scream your head off about Democrats destroying the world, you can't have a mild-mannered cowboy standing beside you, it just is a strange contradiction. Now, later, a hype video at the event featured a thirst-trap photo of Twitch streamer Hassan Piker for no apparent reason.

Away from Democrats in its own morning. I am not going to have been the same person. It's easy to see how this happened. They were trying to illustrate how scary the left is, but for Republicans scared and horny are interchangeable feelings. The highlight of the event was Trump's hour and 44-minute speech where he issued this pledge. Only I can make this promise to you, and here is my promise,

if the Republicans win the House of Representatives and the United States Senate, both of them, because of our economic, tremendous economic success. I will issue a dividend to every adult citizen in the United States of America for $5,000. Only adult citizens? What a snub to everyone he met on Epstein's Island. Now, you liberals mock our president,

but when you add the $5,000 fake midterm dividend to the $5,000 fake dogeyne. dividend and the $2,000 fake tariff dividend, that's 12,000 fake dollars he's pretending to put in the pockets of every single American. Maybe you coastal elites should stop and think about what pretending to send $12,000 could mean to the typical American family. You're pretending to help pay for gas and groceries. You're pretending to help parents afford braces for their kids or to finally pay for that travel soccer leave. Maybe Democrats aren't willing to pretend to care about these issues, but Trump is. One caveat. Giving

every American adult five grand would cost over $1.3 trillion dollars and require, obviously, the approval of Congress. But it is beneath us to explain why this is logistically challenging. A dividend such as this would royal an already fragile bond market. Don't worry, he's lying. It's like trying to explain to a Nigerian prince why he should work with a bank that doesn't require an advance to access his funds, and the funds in his account should be more than enough to cover a line of credit.

Good point. None of this is real. President Trump also used his remarks to go after Texas Democratic Senate candidate James Talarico. And after claiming that Talariko hates Christianity and loves transgender children, Trump made this odd claim as well. He was also somebody that hated eating meat. But he ran a campaign to beat meat. He called it beat meat. I don't know what the hell he meant by that. These people are going to tell me what the hell is he? wants to beat meat, but it was bad for his image,

so he started eating meat. It's weird for Republicans to be against beating meat when this whole event is one big Trump's circle jerk. Love it or leave it. On MS now. On Friday, Trump stepped off of Air Force One in New Jersey with noticeably darker hair, prompting speculation as to whether Trump was kicking off his brunette era.

A sudden extreme hair change? Oh, my God. Did he and Natalie break up? During a 9-11 tribute at the White House, President Trump claimed that firefighters had rescued him during the recovery effort after the attacks. We thought it was coming down on top of us and two firemen, big strong guys, and I'm not the smallest guy in the world. They grabbed me under the arms and said, got to get out of here. And they literally lifted me up. This is not easy to do.

I'm big. They lifted me up and they started running with me. I said, fellas, I can run myself. But they were amazing. More like Lion 11. And, sir, please, you don't have to exaggerate your involvement in the events of September 11th. It was enough that you fought back against those hijackers on the plane. At least one former official has disputed that Trump played an active role in the recovery effort in Lower Manhattan,

telling the New York Times, quote, I spent many months there myself and I never witnessed him. Though it's possible this official simply didn't recognize that it was Trump since in those days he was blonde. Meanwhile, former New York City mayor and melted Home Depot skeleton, Rudy Giuliani, went on newsmax to offer his thoughts about the city's current mayor attending the 9-11 memorial service. Should Mamdani skip the ceremony? What do you think? Well, there's no question he should. Having lost friends there and being very close to many of the families, it offends me that he's coming.

In fairness, I think it probably makes Rudy feel a little sad and jealous to hear about anybody coming. We're on the same channel as Rachel fucking Maddow. Just to be clear, Zohran Mundani was nine years old on 9-11, which makes him the youngest hijacker. Mondani confirmed that he would attend the memorial service without responding directly to Giuliani. I'm proud to be the mayor of the city. I love this city. I love this country. And what I want this week to be a focus on is on the families whose loved ones were stolen from them 25 years ago in the horrific

act of terror of September 11th, and a focus also on the first responders who give everything they could to this city and to the people who came together to try and help their fellow New Yorkers. Now, that sounds like something a decent, empathetic, patriotic mayor would say, but could it contain a hidden message? What I want is September 11th. I love September 11th. Oh, my God. According to the Washington Post, recent financial disclosures reveal Trump

gave his devoted aide, Natalie Harp, and two other staffers $45,000 a piece in cash gifts for the holidays. That's how they get you. First, you pay for the human printer, but then you have to keep coming back to pay for more human printer cartridges. Experts say the gifts may violate a federal statute against supplementing federal salaries from outside sources. But I needed the money, said Natalie Harp, gazing up at a $45,000 oil painting of Donald Trump. In apocalypse news, Jacob Coxon, an AI researcher resigned from his job at Anthropic on Tuesday, writing on social media, quote, The people building AI earnestly believe that it could kill us all by the end of the decade. You hear the world's ending in a decade. I hear, I don't got to wear a sunscreen no more.

An anthropic team leads still at the company, then wrote, Jacob is correct here. We really do earnestly believe AI could kill all humans. I personally think it is greater than 10% within the next decade. Look, this is the cost of progress. Sure, there's a 10% chance of destroying all life on Earth, but the new iPhone folds. So it's a trade-off. Could this technology create a disease that wipes out every last person? Sure.

But, but it could also cure that disease in the nick of time. And so, do you not want the cure? Think about it. And this is getting real. Anthropics said in a report public. Thursday that the company shut down the work of several scientists who may have been using its AI models to build biological weapons. Boy, almost enough to make you miss the days when the biggest problem we created was eating disorders. Am I right? said Mark Zuckerberg, looking for and then not

receiving a high five. Now, you might be asking yourself, if they think the risk is so great, why don't they stop? What a stupid question. Kelsey, one minute on the clock. Anthropic can't stop because Open AI won't stop, and Open AI can't stop because Anthropic won't stop, and Anthropic and Open AI can't stop because Google and meta won't stop, and America can't stop because China won't stop. And so what should happen is an international negotiation on AI guardrails combined with an enforcement regime that bound signatories during this apparently limited window in which the risk is shared and we still have control over the technology

and the frontier models, the ones proving formulas and terrifying executives, are still run by a few big organizations, combined with federal oversight of AI companies to prevent catastrophic harm and before the very bad harms, like scams and cybercrimes and swarms of AI getting loose and trying to solve for declining water levels in Lake Mead by turning off all the ventilators in the state of Colorado. And while that regulatory regime is being built, these companies would agree to interim control

so that the excuse of competition no longer justifies racing toward oblivion while putting out releases with self-satisfied transparency that let us know that sadly a few rogue agents escaped and are now in all the pacemakers. But of course this demands aggressive, aggressive, focus, thoughtful leadership. And as with a pandemic, this hinge point for humanity happened to hit the timeline when Donald Trump is president and when we're not allowed to use the best word we have

to describe what he's like. But look on the bright side. The new iPhone folds. In less apocalyptic news, Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh on Tuesday blocked Missouri election officials from using a new congressional map backed by Trump that was redrawn to eliminate a Democratic seat. Classic Brett, Brett, knew I liked that guy.

Brett, Brett, Brett. Come on, MS now. Brett, Brett, Brett. Stop it. And so Missouri would have to use the old maps as required by a state Supreme Court decision authored by Judge Ginger Gooch. That's right, Ginger Gooch. The Honorable Ginger Gooch.

I'll show them. I'll go to law school and become a judge and then no one can make fun of my name, said a young, wrong, ginger goch. But then moments after Kavanaugh's ruling imposed the old map, a Trump appointed district court judge kicked Missouri right in the gooch and imposed the new map. and not to dwell, but Ginger Gooch is married to a man named Chad Munzi, which means she chose to keep the name Gooch. But that's our Ginger Gooch. She gooches to the beat of her own Gooch.

The chaos came to an end on Thursday when the Supreme Court once again stepped in to block the new map. The original map will remain in place through the November election. Sorry, Missouri Republicans, as they say in the show-me state, better Gooch next time. The campaign of Democratic Congresswoman Marie-Gluzenkamp Perez, is selling tin nicotine pouch holders that say Marie-Gluz-Zincamp Perez. This gives me an idea, said Delaware Senator Lisa Blunt, Rochester.

At a launch event on Wednesday, Apple unveiled the iPhone duo, yes, the first foldable smartphone from the company. Starting at $2,000, the phone comes with an AI system that Apple's new CEO, John Ternus, is calling, quote, Your Intelligent Personal Hub. In a nod to Steve Jobs, Turneris added, Oh, and one more thing. This will kill all humans. And last but not least, MMA fighter Cole Johnson said he was offered $500,000

to fight an actual chimp in a pay-per-view bout on 9-11. Half a million is a lot, but his opponent's offer was bananas. The fight was proposed by Johnson, who claimed he could beat a chimp in a fight, while experts warned that he would, in fact, face mortal danger as an aggressive chimp, might rip his face and hands and gooch right off.

Now that's how you honor 9-11, said an excited Rudy Giuliani. And we've got a great show for you tonight. We'll be right back with former congresswoman Katie Porter. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of love it or leave it coming up. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. We all of those persistent bad habits we wish we could change. We want to stop anxiety spirals.

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Now available in Canada and the UK 2. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash love it. Very excited to have Nate Silver, Claire Malone, and Galen Droke from 538 back together to host Still Counting a podcast where they dig into the numbers and the data and the betting markets to help separate what matters, what doesn't, and what data you can trust and what data you should ignore. So please, please, subscribe to Still Counting.

It is an excellent show and a great thing to add as you're trying to figure out and sort through a lot of noise this election season. Go to At Still Counting podcast and you'll find it. Just search for Still Counting wherever you listen or watch or collect content or, you know, wherever you give your life over to a small device made by oligarchs to keep. you distracted from the end of the world. All right, my first guest used to read him to filth in Congress. Now she's just turning the page on a new chapter here to suffer through all my book puns. It's Katie Porter. Hi. Good to see you. Good to see you. Hi. All right. Welcome to the show. So has it been nice getting to catch up on your reading rather than having to campaign for governor?

Yes. Like every aspect of my life is actually better. And that makes me really sad that public service is actually that hard. And campaigning is that hard. So yeah, every aspect of my life is better. Yeah, but you still would have preferred to win. Because I'm competitive as fuck. So, yes. But I mean, look, like I also, I really believe, and you know this from when I first ran. Like, I ran. because I wanted to make some laws. I didn't run because I wanted to be elected. Like I did not come out of the womb in a navy-blue jacket

with like a little sticker that says vote for me. I didn't really want to be elected. I wanted to fix stuff. So now I just need to rethink about how I can fix stuff from my job as a law professor, which is something I did when I was a law professor last time. So the research I did when I was a law professor a decade plus ago,

exposed the big banks for cheating people during the foreclosure process and helped hold them accountable and pass things like the homeowner bill of rights in California and help bring about the national attorney general settlement and kept people in their homes. And so I will find there's no shortage of corporate wrongdoers like I will find some other cheater and expose them. I remember when I interviewed twice at the beginning of the campaign and towards the end of the campaign. And I remember feeling like that because you were constantly getting asked about these stories from how you had treated staff and you'd apologize many times and addressed it many times, but you're constantly being

asked about it. But I remember feeling like something's happening with you. There's a part of you that's a little bit missing in this campaign. Like there's a ferocity that was something that was special about how you were in Congress that you were kind of holding back. And I wonder if you felt that and have thought about that. I definitely thought about it. I don't know so much that it was an intentional holding back. It just, when we're searching for somebody who has nothing interesting, we just want like the most stable thing, then that doesn't necessarily, it's not a good fit for me. Like, I am not for everybody.

I am for the people. Like, I am for democracy reform. I am for campaign finance. I am for, like, fossil fuels, you know, stopping us all from melting down. And so I think it was hard to articulate some of that in that very cabined environment. But I also will say, like, Tom Steyer coming in with billions of dollars and being as saying whatever he felt like with no possible consequence, it also really affected the race. And those two things were intended to be and were at the same time.

Right? So part of he silenced me by leaking that video. And part of that was then there was a lot of stuff. space for him and he used the space to his credit. So I also think the last part about it is I thought the governor's campaign really should be about policy. I was very frustrated in Congress that most of what we talked about boiled down to, we suck less than Trump, which has the great virtue of being true, okay, which is not something you can always say. We suck more, we suck less than Donald Trump. And I got frustrated in Congress that it wasn't often about policy. And so for governor,

I really wanted it to be about policy. And I don't think that's what the election ended up being about at all, at all about policy. Because I think if you look at the array of us, you know, I don't agree with Antonio Villageroza about a lot of stuff. But Antonio had real policy ideas. He had policy things he had done as mayor of L.A. That did not speak to people, right? I think the candidates who kind of came in, Eric Swalwell initially, then Bacera, these were probably the candidates with the policies. And so that's not to speak to like good or bad or how someone's going to lead or

any of that. It's just to say that I wanted it to be a policy contest and there wasn't any app. There was no follow-up question, John. So like to be spicy, you have to have a little bit of a back and forth. And I would say like, I want to make tuition free. And people would say, but you know, you were not nice ones. So that's a really tough, you know, that's a really tough dynamic. It was totally appropriate. I was asked about it. It was totally. totally appropriate that I acknowledged it and apologized and gave some context to it, like wholly appropriate. But six debates in, it started to feel like we don't really want to talk about California's

policy problems and what Democrats should do about it. We just want to sort of have some kind of like sieve and everybody who is a real human with real flaws falls through the holes. And I was one of those people because I've always been a real human with real flaw. And so you're saying that you just don't believe there was no way for you to get past that story. And do you think that is, and how much of that do you think is because you're a woman running for governor? All of it. I mean, in other words, all of it.

I do not, this morning I got a little notification that was like, you were mentioned on TV. And I thought to myself, leave me alone. That was literally my first thought. like leave me alone. Like I have exited. What do you want from me? Right? And I got on it. It was some CNN host spouting off about Amy Klobuchar and how she wasn't nice to his staff for once and analogizing it to me. So instead of like, I'm like Kloberchard, now Klobuchar is like me. And I'll be honest, like, I think Amy Klobuchar is really smart and really talented leader and I think she's going to make an amazing governor. and I was like, you know, all of it.

Because I said to someone like this whole likability, did you read yesteryear? I know we're going to talk books later, but did you guys read yesteryear? The number of people who are like, the woman wasn't very likable. And I'm like, who cares? Like, that isn't the point.

The point isn't to be likable. It's to be competent. It's to be thoughtful. It's to be efficient. It's to be fierce. It's to be righteous. It's like, it doesn't mean you should go around being a jerk. You shouldn't.

And we all fall short. There is nobody who has not been a jerk at some point in their professional or personal life. Nobody. But it shouldn't define all of who you are. And I felt like I was reduced to that one moment. What do you think about Steve Hilton? So I actually think Steve is one of the better Republicans

we've seen in California. Now, low bar. Low bar on the floor. But look, Hilton is putting ideas out there. Do I think outsourcing driving tests to like 7-Eleven or whatever he's going to outsource them to, driver safety is a good idea? No, I've got two teenage drivers. But I think Hilton, like, here's my point.

Is it a good idea to reduce registration fees to $73? I don't know. I don't know. But isn't an idea? Like, people pay $200, $300, $400, $600 a year in registration fees? Like, that is $500. or $400 or $200 back in your pocket if we reduce registration fees. Like, it's an idea.

Should we have no taxes on Californians earning less than $100,000? It's really hard to make ends meet if you're earning less than $100,000. I thought that was actually an ideal worth debating. And we debated it. You and I debated it. Yeah, so I don't know that we have to embrace Hilton's ideas per se to acknowledge that his presence in this race, putting forth ideas, is a good thing. good thing. And look, Donald Trump's no tax on tips. As a matter of tax policy, I'm taking tax

law this semester for fun. Like I'm auditing it. Let me tell you, those students are pretty smart. It's pretty hard in there. I'm in the back row and I'm definitely kind of a backbencher. But like, is it a good idea to not tax tips? We can debate that as a matter of tax policy, but give it to Donald Trump. It was an idea, right? This idea of treating, of paying people who are staying home caregivers. Is that a good idea, a bad idea? At least it's an idea. So my challenge to Democrats is, what do you have for ideas? Yeah, no, it's a huge problem.

They don't have a lot of ideas. I mean, they have, we're going to hold Trump accountable. Okay, which is great, but we did that, we did that, we did that, right? And we've tried it. Some candidates have talked about Medicare for All, which I think is a great idea, but it's not exactly new, right? So even candidates who've run on more of a crisp platform, and I would put like El-Sayed in this category,

Money in your pocket. Because the tooth fairy is going to put it there. How? How is that money going to get to your pocket? So I think this is, I think people are going to sail through the midterms running on Trump sucks. I know I ran an 18 on Trump sucks. That is a winning midterm message because he is the sitting president and he does in fact suck.

All right? Easy message. But this presidential is really going to be interesting because Democrats must find a vision of a better America for all of us where people are going to be at risk of drifting back to the next Republican in line. And so if I'm a presidential candidate, I am hiring the smartest policy people I can find. Forget going and giving hugs in South Carolina. I mean, a Gavin hug is very nice. If you haven't had one, it's easy on the eye. It's very nice if you're a straight lady to get hugged by Gavin. But like policy idea, like a vision of a better America.

America. And I think that is where I'm seeing every Democrat struggle. Yeah, it is, I would say, it is a sort of a natural consequence. Like, I was part of the 2007, 2008 Democratic primary, and that was a policy debate about health care. And yes, Obama and Clinton were very aligned on policy. It was a clearly, it was a really kind of debate about the direction of, like, the center left, like what it would mean to be a kind of, a progressive liberal, but it was a lot of policy. Like I, to this day, like I remember how much time

in the Senate office and then on that campaign, we were thinking about different aspects of health care policy, climate policy, energy, all the rest. The lack of that, the 2020 was a referendum on Trump, as was 2016. 2024, we didn't have that primary because Joe Biden stayed in. We are just due, long overdue, for a big, raucous policy debate.

It's money, but it's also, Because in Congress, the answer was always like, we can't do that because it would cost money or we can't do that because we don't have the money. But it's also a failure of imagination. And this is, I think, part of what was animating in the California governor race. Like, people were just like, let's hang on to what we've got. Like, we're hanging on by our fingernails. And so let's just hang on. Let's not try anything.

Let's not take any risk. Let's not be bold. But I think we're in a place where we have to. I mean, even if you look at international affairs, like the old war, like remember we had the war on, you know, communism, then we had the war on terror, whatever that was, right? What are we even doing? Like, who are we trying to be on the world stage?

And that is a really important question for Democrats to answer. And even the decision to elect Joe Biden, who I thought was a terrific president. Okay, his policies, the things he put forth in Congress, terrific, and I wish Congress had given him more of what he was. he wanted. I think it's, I think he's, he was sort of like the no time. I didn't say he was a terrific political leader. Well, what I was going to say is only that, he was a little bit like that last Bond movie and that like the first half was so good and the second half was so bad.

Well, because the second half was about what comes next, right? It was there shouldn't have been a sequel, right? It should have been a one, a one movie, a standalone film. And that was where the problem went. But, I mean, you know, Joe Biden, even the ideas he was trotting out things like infrastructure really important. but not answering some of these big questions we have coming forward. So, I mean, when I hear Democratic candidates say, when I get elected, I will put back your ACA subsidies. I'm like, oh my God.

Like, the ACA did not make health care more affordable. It did not make, now, it may help some people, but it didn't drive down the total cost of health care, which is still eating up too much of America's baby. It made health care affordable for a lot of people. It did not do what we would joking. You referred to as bending the cost curve. Yes.

Which is so that's the next task, right? So it isn't to take away from the ACA. It's to be additive, right? And the same thing I would say about, you know, the work of holding Trump accountable is lovely, but the bigger project is what should a democracy look like? Like Trump has exposed all these fault lines in our democracy. Fix them so that no other scumbag can go through them, right?

Because there's plenty more where Trump came from. You're bursting at the seams. You're bored at home with your books. Maybe. All right. Now, in honor of your new chapter, we've asked Katie to make book recommendations for people who really need them

in a segment we're calling, throw the book at them, complimentary. I'm not throwing anything at anybody. No, we're not. We're not. I don't do that. No. Ever.

Ever. And shame on you. No. Now, I will read you a name and you will recommend a book you think this person really needs to read. Yes, we are making assumptions about people, but sometimes you can judge a book by its cover, you know?

You don't see a dragon knight having sex with a fairy queen on the cover of War and Peace. You know what I'm saying? All right, first up, the Democratic candidate for governor, Javier Bacera. So I brought my book bag, and I went and got physical copies. So let me see what I have for Javier. Okay, for Javier I have, very timely, the heat will kill you first. This is the man who said we need. Chevron. He said, I need Chevron, we need Chevron. I need Chevron to stop making it hot.

So this is a fabulous book. Jeff Goodall, he wrote a second book about water. So if we don't burn to a crisp, we're all going to die in a flood. It's not the most up book. Right? It's not likable. It's not likable. But we have to confront the reality that our status quo, the democratic status quo on climate. Again, way better than the Republicans. status, you know, quo. But the democratic status quo, if we keep going where we've been going, the heat will kill us first. Next up, we have Donald Trump. Oh, I have a good one for Donald. No, David. So if I had a little whiteboard here, you know, I would cross it off or write,

I would write, I don't want to deface the library book because, again, I behave. No, no David is a book about somebody who just needs to listen when they're told. No. I like that. And it's at his level. Next up, let's do Gavin Newsome. So for the governor, I brought this book, which is called Dodge County, Inc. This is, Gavin's strength is that he knows a lot about policy in the West.

And the West is big, and we have a lot of interesting policy problems. but he's going to be spending a lot of time in a lot of other states. This is a book set in Minnesota, and it is about big agriculture and the destruction of family farms, even though that is now, sadly, pretty much complete and in the past. I think this book really shows the effect that it had on the psyche of people in the Midwest, whether they were farmers or not, sort of the arrival of Big Ag into the Midwest. And so Dodge County, Inc. Finally, do you have any book recommendations for John Lovett?

Yes, I do. So politics is really unfun right now. So I brought you this. Town and Country. It is about a gay man who runs against a Republican in a swing congressional seat. So you can tell it's imaginary because there are almost none of those left anymore. And I believe triumphs. I'm only halfway through it.

Actually, I'm not even halfway through it. You can see my bookmark. but it is delightful. So if politics is, if the reality of the midterms is too much for you, fiction about the midterms. Thank you.

Thank you, Katie Porter, for being here. That was great. Great talk to you. And we'll be right back. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. Love It is brought you by Cook Unity.

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That's 50% off your first order at Sundays for Dogs.com slash love it. Sundays for Dogs.com slash love it or use code love it at checkout. And we're back. My goal in life is to be the white gay Larry Wilmore, but we've got someone even better from the daily show, the nightly show, and also this show. It's Larry Wilmore. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Hi. Hey, how's it going? Good to have you back. I know. Nice to be here. Nice new set and everything. Yeah, look at this.

Look at this. Backstage is amazing over here. It's really nice. Yeah, there's a ladder there you can set your drink down on. Now, Trump is having a totally normal midterm gathering of the juggaloes in Texas. Yes. What have you thought of the festivities? I think it's, it's amazing to me. I feel like the Republicans heard that somebody said God was non-binary, so they had to get

together. It's like this big emergency thing just to prove God has a penis. I don't understand what's going on. Did you see Tibbs got, and God has a penis? And Jesus has a wee, we, we everybody has a wee. It's so crazy. It's like, so when God birthed the universe, apparently it was a cesarian, because The only way it could happen, I suppose.

You know, it's crazy. Yeah, it's funny because maybe this is an inappropriate reaction. But when I saw the Tim Scott speech where he's like the alpha and the omega, you know, and he's sort of doing this sort of deeply kind of Christian nationalist speech about America, a little part of me was like, I want to show this to some of the Jews in Michigan who are a little concerned about Abdul. And just be like, hey, guys, listen, listen. Let's just keep in mind that on one side is Elon Musk, who's like kind of engaging with bigoted accounts on Twitter

that are like, actually Jews are technically semi-white. And then you have this sort of Christian nationalism down there in Dallas. Which side do we want to really be on? You know, just what's good for the Jews? Yeah. Well, I think it's more mega-nationalist than Christian nationalists. Like even Christians are like, what are they even talking about? you know, but it's all the adoration of Trump and Trumpism.

And this is his last shot, you know, that's why, you know, they're ramping it up. I think even a whole notch he gets to crown like his successor or whatever. So this is all celebration. All this stuff, it's just show for Trump. It's, it's emperor play. It's really what it is to me. And Jews will not replace this, by the way, you know, just so you know. No, and I've always said that.

So Kimmel and his monologue revealed that he couldn't interview Tal RICO. on the show, so it will only go out on YouTube because of, I guess, a threat from the FCC. Right. And so the way Jimmy said, it was something along the minds of that, in order to avoid putting the affiliates in a bad position,

they're just going to put it on YouTube. What was your reaction to that? You know, we're just in a different world right now where, I mean, the FCC is going after people just for having interviews, you know. when the Smothers Brothers they had problems with the with CBS I think it was at the time

I mean they were talking you know about the war and Vietnam and that sort of thing and the president of the United States was having issues with them you know also was coming down but it seemed like the the subject matter was more it had more substance

to it right now we're talking about just straightforward interviews there's not even anything controversial about what Kimmel is doing. So it's very, it's this absurdist universe of censorship that I've never seen before. And once again, I think it's just to service Trump. It's not at the service of something else of of like, um, like if Tala Rico's there telling secrets about the military that might harm our, you know, our soldiers or something like that, you know, or making, you know, doing that type

of material. It's, it's absurdist theater that we're living in now. Yeah, it also, it's, it is so clearly for Trump or to prove something to Trump or to kind of perform for the right because if an interview with James Taylorico goes out on Jimmy Kimmel to his audience I don't know how much influence that would have that one interview would have in a Texas

Senate race but a big national news cycle about Talleroico not being on Kimmel and then a YouTube that gets even more views because of this controversy is certainly not unhelpful to the Talorico campaign the alternative being I guess that Jimmy Kimmel would have to invite Ken

Paxton on, which he should not be forced to do in order to please the FCC. But let's say he did have Ken Paxton on. I don't think Ken Paxton is well served by interviews with Ken Paxton, which is why he does so few of them and is doing so little campaigning. Even Trump says on the stage, he's like, he's not a great speaker. He doesn't dress well. He's not particularly good looking. Oh, but he's pretty good on some other stuff, you know. And so it's obviously not serving the interest that would be, you know, it's not, it doesn't seem to serve their political purpose. now you're somebody that keeps it 100, as you say. Thank you very much.

Are there Democrats out there in politics who you think are doing a good job of being real right now? That is a very good question. The Democrats are a very difficult time of keeping it 100. That is, you know, meaning what they say and saying what they mean, right? Having both of those happen at the same time, those are usually called gaffs, right? Yeah. Yeah, it was a Kinsey Gaff. There used to be a term called a Kinsey Gaff, which is a gaff is when you accidentally tell the truth.

When you accidentally tell the truth, right? You mean what you say and you use the words that convey that meaning. Both of those things are true. I would say the closest is Mondani. Bondani. How do he say his name again? Mondani. Yeah.

I think he's the closest to me. Like, he's pretty consistent. Like, I haven't seen him be tripped up about something or hedge in something. even if you agree or disagree, he seems the most in terms of authentically, and this is tough, because, you know, you can run one way and then govern another, right? And usually you see people change because they have to present themselves to the audience in order to give votes, right? He's been pretty consistent on both sides. Of everyone I've seen out there, Democrats, not that he would be in the national stage.

You can't run for president. He seems the most consistent in terms of keeping it 100. Yeah, I do think it speaks to the problem we were talking about with Kim. Katie Porter earlier, which is if you are looking for politicians who are like that right now, you are more likely to find them on the left, right? Bernie Sanders, I think, is like that. Mamdani, I would agree. And what's interesting about Mondani is he has obviously tacked, especially on issues like policing, but when he talks about it, I think he is sincerely talking about the choice to support the police commissioner that was already there, the reason you have

to get behind the police while before talking about reform. So it's not to say he isn't sort of moderating politically on certain issues to achieve his more left agenda. But, no, I agree. He's trying to be sincere and represent what he's talking about. Yeah, he could be a little bullshit in that issue because it's New York. You can't mess around with that issue, you know. And, you know, some of the things that the left side of the party has said that might alienate them with the police. I don't know if he's aligned himself so much in those areas.

So he's been able to steer clear of some of those traps, I guess you could say, in that arena. But one lesson I took away from the Kamala campaign, and this is, I think, partly because of her, but mostly, I would say, just the conditions in which she had to run, but the less clear your worldview, the harder every question becomes. Yeah, that's true. Right. And so, you know, being unable to figure out where she should be critical of the Biden administration, not having enough time to really chart her own policy agenda and path, it turned every, every, all of a sudden, she's hemmed in on every side, no matter the question, no matter the topic. And so there's no question on which you feel like you can really let loose and say what you really think. And it does speak to the problem Democrats have more broadly because I know what drives the left, but I'm curious what you see as like sort of are there Democrats who you feel like are, you know, the closest, honestly, I would say, like Chris Murphy is someone who I think has a clear kind of ideology, but is not from the left, right?

I think Pete Buttigieg is very careful, but I think he is sincerely thinking about how to shape an agenda that reflects what he believes in. What do you think? Well, the Democrats, they're very disappointing because they can never take yes for an answer. They clearly have the advantage right now and they say, you know what, let's fight with each other. Let's not take that easy win. Let's pull each other down, you know. It's really surprising to me. And no one's coming out and really leading with policy. I mean, Katie was talking about this too, policy and ideas, being forward thinking and that sort of thing. You know, I don't know why that is. I would love to see that. The anti-trans. The anti-transing.

Trump thing has we have to get past that now because he's going to be gone. He's not going to be a factor. So we need some people out there leading with vision. You really need somebody with vision right now who's not afraid to stand in their two feet. Maybe not as be popular right away, but get followers. You got to get those followers. I was disappointed with the Conlick campaign because to me her strength was when she was on that Senate committee and she was her prosecutor self, you know.

Yeah. To me, that's her superpower is that. And she was like, bam, man. And I was like, yeah, this is, I love this. But it seemed like once you get handlers around you and you're running for president and everybody has to say and they got to stress test everything, you've been around that stuff. You know how it. It's amazing, by the way, Obama made it through all that and somehow came out okay. But he was shaking up a lot in the beginning.

He took a lot of like shells coming in, you know, I remember. But he was able to keep a sense of himself and the most special part of himself, that inspirational visionary. was able to get through that, you know. I don't know if Kamala had that, but she certainly had more substance than we were let in on and the ability to be a badass, which I wanted the badass comment.

I didn't want her trying to make me like her, be friends. I don't need to be your friend. Be a badass. We got some MFs that we got to deal with right now, and I need you to be a badass. Now, Larry, you had a segment I love on the nightly show called Keep It 100, where you would challenge your guest to answer questions

that actually make them squirm. Personally, I'm squirming all the time. It's a medical term for why I sit in this chair this way. This time around, however, we're both going to be put to the test. In a segment, we're calling it, keep it 100 or leave it. Oh, wow. So you'll ask me a challenging question, and I'll ask you one, and we'll go back and forth until we're sort of very tense.

Okay, you want me to go first? Sure. Okay, you wrote for both President Obama and Hillary Clinton. Who's the bigger asshole? So this is going to be, I'm going to say quick. I'm going to do as quick as possible. Okay. Neither one was ever an asshole.

Okay. However, Barack Obama is so even, right? There was, and even in sort of stressful circumstances, that idea of like kind of Obama as this level-headed guy that was true behind the scenes and in public. With Hillary Clinton, there was definitely hard, very frustrated moments where that would come out. And actually, I remember the first time one of those was directed at me. I remember someone pulled me aside and said, you're good.

Like she, you know, trust you as someone that she could be really direct with even in like a really hard

and stressful moment. And so, uh, neither one was ever an asshole. Okay. Okay. But on this, but just sort of to answer your question,

who would have been, who would, who could have at some point been a little harsher to me? It was, sure. Sure. Yeah.

So she was a bigger dick. See, I would not. You know, you don't use my words. I don't have to use your words. I know. I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding. This is my show. You kept it 100, that day. Yeah, thank you. All right, let's see. Are you ever afraid to reveal more conservative views publicly for fear of a backlash? That's a good question. Sometimes, sure.

You know, I've always been what I call center-left. For a while I was more center-right, I think, in the 90s. I realized I was more center-left because the issues that I care about the most, some of the social issues, I thought the left had the moral high ground on that, so I just kind of naturally fell on that. And a lot of those came out, I think, during the odds. But I have a lot of respect for conservative thought,

philosophical thought, especially, as well as liberal thought. I've gone down both of those rabbit holes equally. But you're not wrong. Sometimes, yeah, I've been shy about sometimes being as forthright on some issues on the right than I have been on the left for sure. Because you're afraid that it'll alienate the people who like you.

It's like sometimes why dig a hole if you don't have to and I have to I have to be mindful of the delivery system sometimes not every delivery system

is the best way to express something like Twitter is one of the worst you know so if I'm going to say something thoughtful I want to be in the right environment to say it

I can't I don't want to say it in an environment where you know the conversation is a mess that type of thing but sometimes

you know you just do what you can but that's a great question yeah um is I 100 there I think if you gave us one example, I feel like that's a 90 or an 80. I don't know if there's an example.

I'd say, so some of the gender issues I don't even want to weigh in on because it's too much of a hotbed. Like, why weigh in on that? And I think most people are nuanced on that issue, but people want to pick fights. The one time I spoke up, I spoke up a couple times in the trans issue. I think the most famous one is against Milo Yonopoulos, the guy and Bill Maher. And I was just making, I

didn't like the way he was attacking trans people by using small examples. There's always bad actors in every group. And any time you use bad actors to blame the whole group, I just think that's wrong. And I think the whole trans arguments, you know,

are just filled with too much emotions of people wanting to fight on it. So I just don't weigh in a lot. you know, but I have a lot of empathy and sympathy for that movement. I think it's 100. And thank you. And also, one last question.

So you're an executive producer in our show called Reasonable Down. Yay! Do you think that this is this Lindsay Clancy trial drawing more attention to what?

No, I just find that fascinating, that trial. Now there's an issue that divides people in an interesting way. Those are the things that are interesting to me, too, because it's not political. It's a cultural divide, a little bit of gender maybe, but intra-gender, women against women in some cases. But, I mean, what an interesting case. I feel like it's going to be one of these huge cases. Years from now, we're going to look back and something's going to, the world's going to be a little different, I think, after this case

than before. It feels like one of those types of cases. I'm fascinated by that case. Well, Reasonable Doubt Season 4 is on Hulu and October. And you go to at Larry Wilmore and Instagram for your live dates because you're doing stand-up. Yes. And magic, too. And magic. Stand-up and magic. We'll be right back.

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. First of all, let's welcome Katie back to the stage. They say there's a time for every season, a time to laugh and a time to cry. Tonight it's time to rant because it's time for the rant wheel. Larry and Katie, the wheel will turn. The wheel will land on one of our faces.

We will have 60 seconds on the clock to rant about the topic of your choosing. Are you ready? This format really suits me. Yes, I think it does too. All right, let's spin the wheel. Katie, what would you like to rant about? I would like to rant about the billionaire's tax in California. Billionaires get to be rich their whole lives.

And yet all we can come up with is a one-time tax. And what are we going to do with the money? we're going to give it all to the same health care conglomerates that have been screwing us for a bunch of years. I believe in progressive taxation. I think the wealthy should pay more. I think wealth inequality and income inequality are serious, maybe the most serious problems holding back the American economy. And if I'm going to impose a billionaire's tax, then I want some real shit for it. I want free child care.

I want free college. I want a full electrification of our economy. I don't just want to take it and keep the current, broken, busted health care system afloat for a whopping another month or two. And meanwhile, all the billionaires flee to wherever they park their yachts offshore. So yes, to taxing billionaires, but let's not do such a piss poor job of it. I agree with that. I agree with that. So people in California, if you're in California or outside of California, there is a ballot measure that is going to impose a one-time billionaires tax. And that would be used to deal with some of the

shortfalls in our health care system. But it has, you know, it is a very easy thing to demagogue, which has been happening on it. Because if you oppose it, oh, you oppose taxing the billionaires, but it is an incredible, like, it is a stupid policy to do a one-time tax, as if we've, like, fixed all of California's problems, but we just need a little bit to make up the difference. No, we have all the same problems yesterdays we're going to have tomorrow. We're just going to grab some cash one time. And it's like, oh, you oppose this? Why? Because you're a neolib shill? Well, maybe a little. No. But it's a, it's, it's, it's, it's just bad, it's just bad policy and it's just nothing to address the problem. So I'm glad you said that. Thank you for saying it. Let's spin it again.

Larry, what do you got? Yeah, it's three of, it's three of us. The wheel serves no purpose. We've never cracked the fucking wheel. Why is there a wheel? We just, there's three of us. We're going to go in order. It's the same order every time. Oh, I remember the old wheel with so many possibilities to do. Okay. I'm going to talk about Trump. Okay. Because I think, We have to speak about him more honestly. We have to stop calling him a fascist, racist, sexist, all these things. And by the way, this is a non-political statement. This is very non-partisan.

You know, I think we've been divided enough, so I want to just speak directly, even to the people that support him. Trump is stupid, you guys. He's stupid. Let's just say that. That's what he is. He's just dumb. That's what we're in trouble about.

There's nobody upstairs anymore. There's no one. If someone was there, there's just a crazy squatter living up there. We have to deal with this problem He's not a fascist He's not a fast he's not smart enough to be a fascist He's not he's not clever enough to be a racist Maybe a lazy racist at the most

Which president wasn't a sexist Please tell me the one So we have to use the right words with Trump We have a stupid person And Lake America No take his crayons away It's Lake Ontario Stop doing that

You know This is like you know With Biden it was weakened at Bernie's You know a little bit of that Whatever But now we're doing with a bigger problem, a dumb-dum. Just be honest.

Dumb-Dum-Dunnel. I just want us to be honest. Let's, I agree with that. What I was thinking is, okay, there's a squatter in his brain. What's in the squatter's brain? Let's spit it again. Here's what I would like to rant about. I was at the Minnesota State Fair this weekend,

and I had a lovely time, but there was something that I noticed there that I hadn't yet observed, and I do think it's something we need to begin talking about, which is what I would call the SUV vacation of strollers. There was a time when you would see kids in strollers or there would be kind of a double stroller, kind of a double-wide, and you have two kids side by side.

Occasionally you'd have the kind of, I don't know, interesting arrangements. The kids would be face-to-face. These are kids being moved around in cargo shipping boxes. They're taken up half. the causeway. It's a crowded state fair. I got a pronto pup in one hand. I'm trying to move, navigate. And you got like basically

traffic like you're at the fucking port of Long Beach. Because you have these giant ships moving through the lanes. What has happened? And then by the way, like, fine, you've got four kids. You got four kids in this fucking thing. Sometimes there's just one kid in there. He's like, he's flying jet blue mint.

And also, we're at the fair. Walk around. I don't know. What's going on with these big giant things? people know about these big giant things the kids are being moved around in? And that's the rant wheel. Yeah. One more time for Katie Porter.

And we'll be right back. Now it's time for a segment we call Second Thoughts. This is where we run through the places where I've made mistakes throughout the episode and where the producers have given me questions or topics about which I might express some misgivings. Oh, no. First of all, I joked about Tim Scott. having sex when the producers believe Tim Scott is perhaps still a virgin. I said circle jerk on MS now.

I did a 9-11 pun. Oh. By and 11. Oh. That sounds so bad. I made us all think about Rudy Giuliani. Hmm. And I have to wear sunscreen still.

I know that. And I know that. And I especially, you know, especially with a retinol, but even still have to do the sunscreen every day. And I let us in a chant for Brett Kavanaugh, probably a mistake. Larry, thank you so much for being here. This was a blast.

Thank you to Katie Porter. There are 53 days into the midterms, and we will be back next week with Jaliel White and Miss Pat. Have a great weekend, everybody. Love It is a crooked media production. Our show is produced by Kendra James, Bill McGrath, Kelsey Gante,

and me, John Lovett. Our production team includes Hallie Keeper, Sarah Lazarus, Roman Borsolino, Peter Miller, David Tolls, Claudia Shang, Jay Banks, Gavin Purcell, and Matt DeGrope. And our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.