Lovett or Leave It - Republicans Give Thanks in Wisconsin

Episode Date: August 7, 2026

Trump crashes out over his helipad, Seth Mouton goes low in Massachusetts, and a Republican Congressman falls in love with being creepy as hell. This week, we have a an absolutely stacked show! Adam Conover goes toe-to-toe with Claude. Sarah Tiana gives us the 411 on 1001 sports controversies, and Dan Taberski helps Lovett craft the perfect manifesto. And we'll add that to our list as we flip through a library full of Second Thoughts.Hate listening to ads? Become a Friends of the Pod subscriber for ad-free episodes of Pod Save America, Pod Save the World, Lovett or Leave It, Runaway Country, Offline with Jon Favreau, and more—plus exclusive content, including bonus episodes of Pod Save America. Subscribe now at crooked.com/friends, on Apple Podcasts, or through the Pod Save America YouTube channel.You can request a transcript by emailing [e-mail]. Include the podcast name, episode title, and air date. Please allow 48 hours for delivery.

Legacy news outlets are hollowed out. The FCC is weaponized. The president spreads conspiracy theories and AI is speeding the collapse of our information ecosystem. What's the end game here? I'm Brooke Gladstone, co-host of WNYC's On the Media. Each week we cut through the BS to ask the questions you need answers to. Don't be a passive consumer. Listen to On the Media, wherever you get your podcasts.

Love it or leave it It's love it or leave it It's love it or leave it It's up Los Angeles Welcome to Love It or Leave It Live from Hollywood I'm John Lovett And I too am a spider man

In the sense that people think it's humane To put me outside But actually that just kills me You think you're saving that spider? You're killing that spider You're killing it either way Just step on it. We've got a great show for you tonight

But first let's get into it What a week. President Trump has ordered workers To rip up the new White House helipad they were installing reportedly because he was unsatisfied with how it looked, even though the contractor told him it was actually quite beautiful under all that algae. Last week, images showed workers putting in a 100-foot-wide granite presidential seal, but by Tuesday, the seal had been removed. People are suggesting this is because Trump is a

capricious dope, focused on what he can control, rather than all the many ways he's failed in his second term. But that is unfair. They had no choice but to rip it up. the contractors forgot to make sure Lindsay Graham was buried pointing toward the White House. Crews have been toiling around the clock as Trump hoped to have the new pad finish before Chinese President Xi visited it in late September. Welcome to the White House, President G.

Please direct your attention to this beautiful new helipad and not the massive pile of rubble where the East Wing used to be. Trump's showing a Chinese dictator, the White House, like a four-year-old excited to show you his room. Look at where I land the helicopter there. Look where I build it. The White House has never had a helipad before, but needs one because the new helicopters that

will serve as Marine One have exhaust vents that could scorch the grass. Plus, they'll need to burn more fuel to carry around Trump's fat ass. Got him. Said a White House spokesperson, thanks to President Trump, the White House has never looked better, and it will only continue to get better under his leadership. Fun fact, that spokesperson, extra blind Stevie Wonder. This week. You haven't heard about that extra-blind version of Stevie Wonder.

So, extra-blind, so blind. Like, nothing. Because you know the rumors that Stevie Wonder can see? There are these rumors that Stevie Wonder can actually see. I don't believe them, but people... Do you know about that? That there's people believe that Stevie Wonder is actually secretly not blind? Do you know about this?

Yeah. Follow the money. This week, the House Ethics Committee recommended that GOP North Carolina Congressman and member of the crooked dozen, Chuck Edwards, be censured for persistent, unprofessional, and inappropriate conduct towards two young female staffers. Said Edwards, staffer, I just met her. Just wait. Edwards gave the two women numerous gifts, including personalized pink and blue handguns. It wasn't a big deal, though. They were left over from a gender reveal. Other gifts he gave the

women include jewelry totaling over $1,000, designer purses, shoes, flowers, a laptop and cell phone, a kitchen aid mixer, a robotic vacuum, tickets to performances, and one-on-one dinners. Insane. Chuck Edwards is 65 years old and has a wife he's been married to since 1980. What are you doing, man? Buy your wife, Arumba. A staffer said that when she stopped wearing a necklace that Edwards bought her, quote, he made a comment about how disappointed he is that I'm not willing to wear what he got me. More like yuck, Edwards. According to the report, Edwards would call the staffers pretty and breathtaking. He paid for one of the women to get massages.

He did yard work at her house, and he skipped votes in Congress to help decorate her Christmas tree. More like cuck, Edwards. Yes, it does appear that he never actually slept with either of these women, which is somehow both better and worse. I know it's mostly worse, obviously, but you know what I'm saying? It's like, yuck, but also better that he didn't. You know what I'm saying? You get it, right? It's okay.

It's like, yeah. And now I shall show you a picture of Chuck Edwards. He's seen here moments before holding a boombox outside the apartment of a woman who smiled at him once and who was born in 2002. Look at this fucking guy. After Edwards took a staffer to a casino and paid for drinks and gambling,

the staffer texted him to thank him for a fun night. Several months later, months later, he printed out that message, drew a heart next to it, and hand wrote, quote, perhaps my proudest personal moment. What are you doing? My God, man, print out a text message from your wife.

Edwards gave this same woman a custom-made puzzle, inviting her to attend an Adam Sandler show with him. On another occasion, He had approximately 30 different types of ice cream delivered to her house in an effort to cheer her up. I scream, you scream, we all scream for a restraining order. There's also this incident detailed in the report in which he wrote poems for a female staffer, including one that he read at her going away party in the congressional office accompanied by a slideshow during which he cried. Several staffers present testified that they felt uncomfortable, which is so important.

embarrassing. When I read a poem I wrote at the office, everybody loves it. On Wednesday, Edwards pulled the plug and he wrote on social media at 3.32 a.m. After much prayer and reflection, I've decided to withdraw from my re-election campaign. I will complete my current term. His state concluded, please don't tell my wife about this. Meanwhile, Republicans are hard at work trying to make our progressive candidates look like loony leftists. and in some races, we're actually making it relatively easy for them. Take Wisconsin's gubernatorial frontrunner, Francesca Hong, a 37-year-old DSA member who serves in the State Assembly.

In 2020, Hong fired off several tweets calling Thanksgiving a, quote, colonizer holiday that should be canceled. And I know what you're thinking. Is she a got asked by her grandma to pick up an extra can of cream of mushroom soup for the green beans? No, she's an adult woman who at the time had just won her first race for the statehouse. And when asked about it recently, clarified with this. I'm a chef and one of the first meals that I made that was for the community

when I was 16 was a Thanksgiving meal. But Thanksgiving is also a time that's incredibly painful for many people in our community. But views can evolve and the position that I'm running for right now and I think my background as a chef will actually help me become a better governor that's able to bring more people to the table. I think it's fitting that she is a chef because if Wisconsin ends up with an election denying Republican as governor in 2028, we're pretty fucking cooked. A day later, she did do some cleanup. My favorite holiday is Thanksgiving. They have it.

Yep. I don't want to cancel it. I actually love it. You know, I'm just, I'm going to be real. I'm kind of a camaraderie when it comes done. holidays in general. And she's not lying there. Here are just a few of her holiday tweets

from throughout the years. Quote, I do not enjoy fireworks. Quote, I do not allow myself to work Halloween weekend. Quote, IT Bro, who was working on our computer, changed the background theme to snow and Christmas trees. I feel slightly attacked. Quote, looking

forward to Valentine's Day, service tomorrow will be at peak resting bitch face to celebrate all the love. At this point, I'm just glad she didn't say her favorite holiday is 9-11. Bernie Sanders does have some reservations. Here's what he had to say to John on Wednesday's Ponce of America when asked if he would be endorsing Hong. I noticed you haven't yet endorsed in the Wisconsin governor's race.

What's your thinking there and might you endorse? I don't think so. So how did we get here? Well, the campaign of Sarah Rodriguez, the current lieutenant governor imploded over financial mismanagement. The former lieutenant governor, Mandela Barnes, who's been on this show, dropped out ahead of a story in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel about rumors of inappropriate relationships with women. David Crowley, Milwaukee's county executive, had already dropped out and endorsed Rodriguez, but at the urging of Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers jumped back into the race and is now trying

to mount a comeback against Hong, even though voting has already begun. But as long as he's not as woke as Hong, we stand a chance. So when people try to call me the establishment, I look at that as a slur. Fuck. In other sorted primary news, Massachusetts, that Senator Ed Markey faced his primary challenger, Congressman Seth Moulton, in a debate that grew surprisingly contentious. I do have a soft spot for Ed Markey, but Moulton's main critique, Ed Markey has served a very long time and at 80 is asking for a term that would mean he's 86 at the end. In a narrowly divided Senate where any absence or illness could have real consequences is fair. But then Moulton dropped this. Senator, in the newly released,

Fyne Files, your name appears repeatedly. But I just want to ask one question. And I ask it from the perspective of a father of two young girls at home. Why would you even take a meeting with a lobbyist on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein? Now, normally I read the Epstein files before bed just to unwind, but I decided to go look right then and there. And Markey isn't in the Epstein. files repeatedly in any meaningful sense. But he has repeatedly called for the files to be released.

And Markey didn't take a meeting with a lobbyist on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein. Epstein, apparently, paid a lobbyist to help secure the release of an imprisoned son of a former president of Senegal. Colleagues of that lobbyist said they had, quote, an initial briefing with Markey, which in lobbyist speak could mean a phone call to a staffer or literally nothing. There is zero proof any actual meeting happened. Markey's office denies he or a staff were ever part of a briefing. And even if it had happened, there's no reason anyone would have known that there was a connection between the colleagues of a lobbyist from that lobbyist to Epstein. And that same lobbyist, by the way, the one that led Moulton to say he was disturbed as a father of daughters

had donated $2,000 to Seth Moulton between 2015 and 2020. Moulton did donate those funds to a charity, but he did that a couple weeks ago before launching this attack in that debate. And none of this stopped Moulton from posting a picture of Markey next to a picture of Epstein to repeat this allegation on social media.

And I fucking hate this. And what I'd say to Seth Moulton, who I've interviewed in the past and for whom I genuinely have a lot of respect, is that you're using the abuse of women and girls, and the evil of it in this shockingly cynical way. Here was Marky's response in the debate. What you are doing right now is absolutely reprehensible.

I have never had any relationship with Epstein. I have no business with him. And what you're saying right now is absolutely the worst of the playbook of destruction and character assassination, which is so characteristic of MAGA Republicans. Added, Marky, if you don't believe Believe me, you can ask Epstein yourself. Oh, that's right, you can't because I killed him.

Over in pop culture news, one night only, the movie where sex is legal only one day a year arrives in theaters this Friday. Raved one reviewer, who directed this? My friggin' wife. Men know what I'm talking about. What if we watch this together? Ha ha, ha.

texted your boss, disgrace Congressman Chuck Edwards. I hate this holiday, added Francesca Hong. And finally, the trailer dropped for Wicker, a film about a fishmonger played by Olivia Coleman, who asks Peter Dinklage to make her a husband out of Wicker, and boy does he deliver. He's Wicker. Wicker, if you ask me, they should have called it

Sex and the Setee. We have a great joke for you tonight. And we'll be right back with Adam Conover. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an average live therapy session rating of 4.9 out of five based on over 1.7 million client session reviews.

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Limited time offer. Rules and restrictions apply. Seeblins.com for details. And we're back. We'll have Adam Conover out in just a moment, but first, the midterms are coming, and friends of the pod subscribers can tune in to this week's polar coaster, where Dan Pfeiffer breaks down what Tuesday's Michigan results mean for November. If you're thinking about becoming a friend of the pod. Now is a great time to join. Your subscription unlocks access to our excellent substack newsletters, including open tabs, ad-free episodes of all your favorite crooked pods, exclusive subscriber-only shows like Pod Save America, only friends, and much more. And to everyone who's already a friend of the pod, thank you. Your support helps power,

independent, pro-democracy media that you can trust. All right. Please welcome to the stage. He knows a lot, and boy, is he going to tell you about it. It's Adam Conover. Hey, buddy. Good to see you. Thanks, good. being here. Hi. Hi, everybody. How you doing? Thanks for coming on the show.

Thanks for having me. Did you take the bus? No, I drove here today. I was bummed because you had a book in your hand. I was like, oh my God, what a... That would have been great if I read on the bus. You're so, like, you have your... You're so well put together and you have a book in your hand.

I was like, God, he's riding the bus here. So cool. So she's riding the bus. I made, you know, I made a lot of my career based on famously riding the bus, and then I did a stand-up special about it. And then after I recorded that stand-up special, I was like, that's enough of that for a while.

And I got myself a nice little electric car, and I do take the bus quite off. I take the subway. Wonderful subway system we have in L.A. People, it's really popping. But now I drive around a little bit, too. Yeah. It's helped me enjoy Los Angeles.

I think that's good. I think it's long, you know, I think more people should, more, there are a lot of people who must ride the bus, and we should have a good system for people that have to ride the bus. Yeah. But it would be a better L.A.

who didn't, who could choose to rise the bus sometimes as opposed to thinking that they must be a bus all the time people. Transportation flexibility. And people are starting to say less in L.A. I don't know anyone who rides the bus. That's cool. I literally met a guy who lived in L.A. for 30 years. I told him I rode the bus.

He's like, oh, did you get a DUI? That's a joke people used to say. Riding the bus, me was literally code for, I got drunk and I got a DUI. No way to get a DUI. I'm an adult. I did Coke and then drove home. woke myself up.

So now we both recently interviewed Bernie about AI. Yes. He's pretty worked up about it. What were your takeaways from that conversation? My main takeaway is that he very charmingly pronounces it, robot. He says robot. He says, IA, AI, and the robots. Robot.

Yeah, and he's doing it legitimately. Yeah. He's not like Dr. Zoidberg on Futurama, they're making fun of it. He literally is from 1930s Jewish Brooklyn and he says, like he knows the guy who invented the word robot, you know? Right. Well, it's like, he's saying it actually in the same way

Zoidberg is saying it, because Zoidberg isn't saying it as a joke. The show's saying it as a joke. They're both saying it sincerely as robot. I like that. Bernie and Dr. Zoidberg legitimately knew each other. I think they could, you know, I think they have some sort of affiliation is certainly possible. It has similar energy. No, look, I think his

His plan is really interesting. If you guys haven't heard, Bernie's plan is, A, he wants a national data center moratorium, which would be very popular, I'm sure. And then he wants to create a sovereign wealth fund where the U.S. owns half of all of the AI companies in stock, and then we pay people out. And, like, every American would, like, get a check,

like an AI dividend check, like they get in Alaska from the oil companies, which I find, like, really fascinating, you know, because AI is built on a public good which is the production of culture that every other human participates in, right? It's literally trained on every piece of text ever written. So

every piece of text you've ever written on the internet, it's trained on. It's all of our cultural output. And so why shouldn't we participate in the same way that, you know, the FCC controls the airwaves because, hey, the public owns the air, no company can own the air. Aren't I trained... Yeah. Aren't I trained on

the same outputs? Right? I'm trained on Don't do that. I'm asking. No, no, no, no. You're playing into their scheme when you're like, I'm just like the AI. I also am trained on outputs. I'm asking you to respond to the judge. You know?

Right, no, I know. And I know that. But I'm saying, what would be the response? Like, I'm, I consume a lot of media. That media, that media informs my views. I synthesize it and create something from it. I understand that there's a big difference between, first of all, the, you know, scale matters, right? It matters if you throw away, you know, like a polluting company in the ocean, I once accidentally, you know, threw a can out by, you know, whatever.

There's a difference in scale that matters. And also, I have meaning and have a consciousness and a soul, you know, and I think that's an important distinction. But, but like, they are just consuming content. I mean, you're not a corporation, right? But what I would say is it's wrong for them to, but just to take the to the logical conclusion to make, to not have. have you attack me for making a dumber point than I'm making, which is only to say it would be wrong if they stole all this information and then replicated it. But they don't do that.

They take that information and they do make something new with it, right? I mean, I don't think it's good. I've never seen AI output that struck me as something new. Every piece of AI output I see strikes me as like the most generic averaging of everything I've ever seen before. For instance, I used to ask it, hey, can you write something new in the voice of Adam Conover, Adam Ruins everything, my old show, and it would output stuff

I had done before. It would never come up with anything new. It's a remix of older stuff, right? Well, that's a different... So I agree with that. That's a different... So I, like, I am bearish on some aspects of AI because because water skis can't pull a boat. Right? Like, I think, you know, that

human beings create interesting in novel culture, this thing can synthesize it and replicate it, or or average it or produce kind of boring or kind of syrupy or saccharine versions of it, whatever, but human beings would create something new from the light of consciousness. That's a different matter than is it unethical in, you know, is it unethical by definition for these companies to synthesize the product of what's on the internet? Well, it's not just synthesization or whatever synthesis, it's extraction, you know,

because they end up replacing what that thing is, right? So just take Google, for example. Like, Google is the main example of this. You know, Google used to be something that supported every publisher on the internet by sending them traffic. Now all of their traffic has plummeted because when people go to Google

and ask a question, it shows the answer to you directly. Where did it get the answer? It got it from all of those web pages that it did not produce, right? And now it's giving you the answer, and it's starving those sites of traffic. traffic to most websites has dropped by like 50 or 60%, which makes you like wonder why, how Google thinks they're even going to go on this way, because they're, you know,

they're eating their own seed corn. Right. No, well, this is where it's like there is something about that a lot of AI, especially anything that is generative AI and this is like new writing or imagery or whatever, it is predicated on a world in which humans make. most of the art or make enough of the art that art is expected to be human. Yeah. And that there will continue to be new art for the machines to synthesize into future new art.

But that might also be a limit on their ability to grow, right? There'll be a kind of equilibrium between how much they can destroy versus how much new needs to be created for them to be of value. Because if they're all frozen in amber based on the way we spoke in 2019 or 20 or whatever, then eventually we'll be like, I don't use AI. It speaks with the dumb, it keeps calling me fam, you know? Yeah, and you can picture them eventually. The company is going, oh, what if we just pay a couple painters and a couple writers to

output new text to train our, you know, to give us enough variability in our training corpus to get new text out of it? Or we could maybe do something like what Bernie proposes and nationalize the companies because what they are fundamentally extracting is a public good. It's something that's produced by all of your. humanity simultaneously. And then we can use that money to benefit humanity, perhaps by funding arts on a massive scale, like a lot of other countries do. That would be very nice. Now, the interest, so I find that, like, it's just a really fascinating argument. It produces conversations like this one.

I think my concern or criticism is it really presupposes that the AI companies are producing value on a large scale, and that has, like, yet to be seen. They're saying that they're producing they're saying that it's the new industrial revolution Bernie said that on my podcast which I'm happy that he made that argument but I'm slightly skeptical that they're actually producing as much value as they say they are

I have not found AI particularly useful I'm not sure what most people find it useful for and the companies that are like rushing to put AI into their businesses are not finding it particularly useful in their businesses and so we're still in this moment where it's like is this a new industrial revolution or is it, you know, a normal technology, meaning something that like, you know, we end up using somewhat for the things it's good at.

But, you know, I mean, even if it's as big as the cell phone, it's smaller than what they are currently saying it is and what Bernie is assuming it is. So I'm worried he might be, you know, believing the industry's line a little bit too credibly. But there's no way to prove that right now. Yeah, I also do think there's this problem where, AI, there's an old aphorism that AI is just the computers we don't have yet, right?

It's just like, it's the next version. It's like, in Mission Impossible, the first Mission Impossible, Ving Rames is like, I want those new Pentium-5 processors, think in machines. And it's like, they're not that great. And so I sometimes think we call it AI and describe like, is this a new industrial revolution?

It's like, well, I don't know about that because we're talking about a technology that is both a kind of can serve as a great kind of super Google research assistant. It can make ugly art. It can do bad writing. It can also search for like variance in DNA.

It can do things with, it can do a lot of different things. And each one of these have potential applications and are different and to varying degrees reflect the value of the technology. Like for me in my day to day, like I find it's writing to be atrocious and I've tested it in all kinds of ways. And it's actually a very, very little use.

Where it is very useful is as a research tool, I don't rely on anything it ever produces, but it does kind of, it can do a quick trawl and find a bunch of sources and then I can go to those original sources

and that is useful, right? That is a valuable thing that did not exist before. Now, I don't know how valuable, but for me, that does help. You know, it's really funny. Over the past couple weeks, I was like,

I use a paid search engine called Kagi, which is like a Google alternative that has a lot of features that I like. It's about $100 a year. They have their own private AI a system, right? So it's like, well, you know, I'm paying to use this thing. Might as well use it a little bit for research purposes, right? And one of the nice things it does is it searches the web and it summarizes what it finds. Like it shows it searching, right? So it's really

easy to follow up on the sources. And I have been trying to learn to put in these new contact lenses. I've been prescribed scleral contact lenses. They're really big. You have to really open your eye wise. I'm trying to learn how to desensitize my blink reflex. And so I was like, can you find, like, things people have said help them desensitize their blink reflex. and it says, okay, well, here's a 10-step program, you know, hold your eye open and start touching the white of your eye lightly. If you want to, you can use the back of a spoon or you can use the little plunger that the contact lens comes with.

But I didn't have a citation for that, and I said, well, okay, where did you find, like, the Reddit thread or the forum thread where people said you could touch it with the back of the spoon, and it said, oh, nowhere. I made it up, but I said, I was a little concerning that you made it up. It said, oh, yeah, that is very concerning. Good point. And I was like, this is, this is, like, it's so quickly contradicted, like, its use as a research

tool. And again, this is after three or four years of people saying, this is the worst it's ever going to be. Oh, it's going to get so much. But to me, it's about as good as it was a couple of years ago. And the other thing about that argument that it's going to be, you know, oh, it's the next computer is, like, large language models do seem useful for some stuff or token, whatever the, you know, token neural networks.

but it still only does that, right? It has the weights of the tokens, and it produces output based on the input. That itself seems like it has limited utility. And a lot of what people are imagining when they talk about AI is something that, like, a token processing neural network doesn't seem like it could accomplish at all. Like, a lot of the things that humans do

are not, have nothing to do with just, like, comparing weights of words or pixels, right? Right. Because the world doesn't actually come in weights and pixels. And occasionally someone has to actually fucking move through space and make a coffee. You know, like, you know what the economy actually runs on? My grandmother's bedpan needs to be changed. And the person who changes my grandmother's bedpan needs to eat some food.

And the food needs to be brought to her house. And it needs to be prepared. And like the world is made of people. And I have yet to see the evidence that, like, you know, 80% of jobs are automated. in that way. I just don't think it's fucking true. And, uh, you know, I love the idea of nationalizing 50% of like any industry, basically. I think that's probably a good idea. You know, we're saying, you say that for, say that for Hassan Piker's dream. All right. Sure, we, we, we, do we, do we, uh, do we do we actually believe the claims of the companies or not, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

sort of the mystical quality of the debate, the way it kind of gets blurred, like, are they going to become conscious? What doesn't need to become conscious to be extraordinarily capable and to disrupt a lot of the jobs? And also, we don't know what consciousness is, so I'm not going to be sure I know when a computer has.

When people start talking about it, is that will I become conscious, I want to shoot myself in the head with a gun? Like, I'm like, you know, I did philosophy one-on-one when I was 19 years old. That's what the computers want. I don't need to get stoned on the porch with you, buddy. You know?

No, no, no, no, you're right. You're right. I shouldn't have interrupted. You're making a good point. I was just sort of struck by the threat. Is there something you've wanted to debunk lately? Oh, that's a really good question. Something I have wanted to debunk lately.

You know, I just did a video on my YouTube channel that made people very mad about all the downsides of our sudden shift to work from home as a culture. And that was based on a lot of my own experience and, like, other folks that I've worked with. And it's really interesting, like, work from home, like, systemically, like, disadvantages. Young people who have trouble, like, getting and keeping jobs.

And because, you know, when you're trapped in a Zoom box, you, like, can't, like, interact with other people. You're treated, like, much more like a little, you know, bit in a, you know, a system that can be easily dispensed with. And it's really, it's a lot harder to, like, unionize remote workplaces if you care about, you know, labor rights. And I've been thinking a lot about the real world and how important your presence in the real world is

and how much power it gives you, you know? And I think that like work from home is really, it's huge advantage. It's for so many people, disabled folks, you know, parents of young kids, et cetera, et cetera. For many, many people, it's great. But I think that like workers have run to it so much. We've sort of like neglected to see how much power

it takes away from us in a lot of cases. and it's also increased inequality because only white-collar jobs get to be remote, right? Yeah. It was like a really interesting set of arguments that we laid out on YouTube and people got mad. Because people love working for a moment, as they should.

Well, you know, I sometimes think it's a little bit like staying at home. Sometimes it is a part of it is a little bit like staying from home and watching Netflix versus going out when you don't really feel like going out. And, you know, Guy Branden would often say, sometimes you have to leave the house to want to go out.

And it may feel like it's exhaustive. It's exhausting at times, but there's something that happens despite yourself that made it good that you left the house in ways you may not understand. I also, you know, people, people would say like about, talk to me about when I, for advice, like, what should I do? Like, what kind of internship? Where am I going to learn the most? It's like, you should, if you can, like, try to get either an entry level job or an internship in a profession you're really interested in. And but do not presume your goal in that first six months is to learn a lot. You will, and that's good. You should try.

but that is not an opportunity for you to gain the career experience you want exactly. It's your goal there to build a relationship with someone who will feel guilty for all the grunt shit you did. Because that will be the thing that helps. They will become your ally and give you advice and help you figure out your career as you move through life. And like, you just got to show up. I think that, I think that's a good point. I put it less in terms of career advancement or that kind of thing. more that like we are fundamentally social animals. We want to be around other people. We benefit

from being around other people. You know, when prisoners are isolated, right? It's like, it's a form of torture, right? Solitary confinement. And so like when we isolate ourselves from other folks when we're too quick to do that, you know, plenty of people have been forced to go to workplaces they don't want to. And that's bad. That's very bad as well, right? But like I think that we could all do, even as workers to remember how much we get out of being around other people and how much like power that gives us in the workplace. Like union organizing is about looking someone else in the eyes and saying we have a shared struggle, right? And like, fuck that, fuck the boss over there. But I'm talking to you right here.

We haven't seen him for a week. You're losing me a little bit. I know your writers unionized a couple years ago. No, no, I'm not. I'm joking. And I love the crooked union. I like to make hosts do that when I come on shows. But no, but the other thing I've felt, too,

about this debate that got a bit worse. One of the challenges I've noticed is that the people that write about work from home are writers. And writing is a profession that is, like, kind of annoying. And it can be, like, I know for, like, the team that works at lover to leave it. Like, they come in and write, and it's like, they got to find a place that's quiet. We have, like, our anchor day is Wednesday where everybody comes in the office. And that's our big day for doing a lot of the writing. And so I sometimes think, too, that a lot of the people,

that poo-poo the benefits of coming to an office, just happen to be the kind of people whose jobs it is are to write articles on the internet from their apartments and are like, why the fuck would I want to do this at the headquarters of Vox.com? You can eat shit. You know what I'm saying? It's also, on the other hand, people like me who write, I want to acknowledge, like,

when I talk about this, it's like, I like working with other people because I get to work with comedy writers, you know, and people I enjoy being around, a lot of people don't. And so the problem of this conversation is it really contradicts a lot of people's, like, lived experience. either way, you know? And that's what makes it difficult. But I just think it's something that, like, we should...

I'm just trying to pull people out of their perspective on it and, like, get a little bit of a broader view because I think it's worth it. Yeah. Thank you, Adam. His podcast, factually, is available wherever you get your podcast and watch them on YouTube at the Adam Conover.

And we'll be right back. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. Love or Leave It is brought to you by Cook Unity. I love Cook Unity. I had a bunch of meals from Cook Unity. I had a Spanish kind of beef bowl that was great. I had pasta that I really liked.

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That's 50% off your first order by using code Loli or going to cookunity.com slash lowly. And we're back. Please welcome to the sage, a good sport who's good on sports. It's Sarah Tiana. Hi, thanks for being here. Hi. Thanks for having me. Whoa.

Look at us. Yeah. Look at us. Putting our feet up. You currently host the show Women's Sports Now on ESPN. What is your favorite women's team to watch here in L.A.? I'm an Angel City season ticket holder. Come on.

Love Angel City. Just filmed a TikTok video with Casey and Giselle. Cool. Very fun. Love Angel City. Just got the new swag from anthropology for them. Love the Sparks. You know, I do, I really do enjoy this.

But I'm from Georgia, so I should love the Atlanta dream, but I just can't. Why can't you? I just started going to Sparks Games. That was my first introduction into the WNBA. And, like, I just love NECA. I'm really sad that Kelsey Plum left. Like, you know, like, they're just really fun. I do have notes, but about the Sparks, but we can leave that for another.

Like on the, like, the design of the logo or anything? Or like the playing? Where do I start? No, yeah, a little bit of the playing, but mostly the merch. I'm, like, really sad about the merch. Because when you go to a Sparks game, you can't just buy a jersey in the store, which is really disheartening because there's, like, 18 LeBron jerseys. You can't buy a jersey, why not?

Why not? They can't buy, like, Kelsey. They're just not for sale. They will have, like, a retro Lisa Leslie jersey, and you're like, cool. Yeah, of course. Like, I probably already have this. I do have some notes on the food options at, BMO

That they eat of the city I want I'm like It's the same as SOFI Like where you're like This is a new stadium They should have lots of great options But they're just mid

They try too hard They'll try to do like something fancy And you're like I just Really want a good hot dog Or really great ticket tenders With like You know honey Barbecue or something

You know like something hot honey That's not This wasn't broken I want a fucking helmet Made a plastic filled with goddamn Absolutely. Dodgers Stadium, like I would cheer for Al-Qaeda before the Dodgers, but like I love the food at Dodger Stadium. Like, no notes. You're also, you've worked on quite a few where we are. You can leave this part, I don't care. Dear audience, we cut everything where we rift about Al-Qaeda.

You're also a great joke writer. You've written a bunch of roast. We had W. Camel Bell on this pod. He hates the roasting. He thinks roasts are. dead. Agree or disagree? It's hard to disagree, but I don't... I think roasting used to be an art. You're only supposed to roast the ones you love. Because if you roast people that you don't like, then it just becomes hate. You know, then it just becomes mean.

It was like, when we had Anne Coulter on the Rob Low roast, like people were just doing jokes about her that were super mean. and I was in charge of her and I was like making sure her bowl was full and there was enough water in her tank. Yeah, had enough yes, had enough blood to drink, you know, stuff like that. And

at one point they were like, go tell her to laugh and I was like, because she was like just sitting there like angry the whole time and I was like, Anne, you know, like you just like when people make jokes about you just try to laugh and she goes, well I laugh when it's funny and I was like you're not wrong.

Literally everyone's just called you a cunt for like an out, you know. I think Nikki Glazer had the best joke about her, which was like Anne, um, Anne Coulter, um, the only man Anne Coulter will ever make happy is the Mexican who digs her grave.

It's a great joke. Great joke. Nikki Glazer, that's a great joke. Yeah, great joke. But, you know, I mean, I think it used to be you,

you only roast the ones you love. And now, you know, we're roasting people, you know, who have been roasted before or, you know, who, like, maybe aren't as roast. Like when we had Tom Brady, you know, no one had made fun of Tom Brady. It was so exciting.

And lately it's just become like, who can we, you know, roast next? And who will take the job? Like, who will do it. And Kevin Hart, who I love, you know, who is very funny and incredible. And I thought the roast was very, very entertaining and lovely. But it's like, you know, we do make fun of Kevin Hart all the time. Kevin Hart makes fun of Kevin Hart all the time. Yeah, I find myself when I watch the roast, because I'm like a, because the correspondence dinners are basically a form of a roast.

And I love the craft of these kinds of jokes. And I just find myself watching them and just like, I can't help but like write the material that I wish they were doing. Just as I'm watching it, just like, come on. Like there's like such a, it's like it's very, um, you're right. Like it, because it is the point that Kamau made as well that like it doesn't have the personal touch that it would have had in the past for people who really knew each other. Even when they first started airing on Comedy Central, there were people who knew. knew each other. Yes, they were friends, you know. And like, I think in Kevin's, in Kevin's roast, there were so many lovely parts. Like, I think, you know, Naim, who is his opener, like, that was

really beautiful and personal, you know, and Big Jay, who had known him for a long time. Like, those, those felt very personal. And then there were, you know, some more of his friends there, but, you know, I definitely, we want to connect, we want it to be real. I mean, I've, I've, I've roast battle people before and people have been, like, asked me to roast them. And I'm like, you know, we're not fret. Like, why would I roast you? Because when you roast someone, you have to do tons of research on them. And I'm not going to kind of waste that energy on people that I don't feel like deserve it.

And, you know, when I'm writing a joke about you, especially as a friend, I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I'm trying to impress you. Like, I want you to love the joke so much that you want it for your act. Yeah, because we did a roast at our rehearsal dinner. That we turned that into a roast. And people really brought it. Yeah. And they were so mean.

Hallie's here. She roasted the ever-loving shit out of me at that. And it was great. Has there ever been a roast where you've written a joke that didn't get used that you thought would have just absolutely killed? So, yeah, during the James Franco roast, I wrote a joke for Jeff Ross. And he did it in the room. And it was James Franco, you're an insult to Italian actors everywhere. I bet James Gandalfini is trying to roll over in his grave right now.

And, like, it killed. And, like, he kind of, like, he, like, it was right after Gandalfini died. It was like super topical, and I was, and it murdered in all their rehearsals. And then when Jeff said it, he kind of did a second, he paused in the middle of it. And then so they cut it because of like the way he delivered it. And he didn't do a retake in the moment, which is totally fine because I was like, I'll just get to keep that joke forever. Like I'll get to like use that on other people.

That's great. Now sort of kind of breaks the rule a little bit because, that's not really a joke about James Franco. That's a joke about James Scandilvini. He really caught us stray there, though he wouldn't really mind. It's just a fat joke. He was dead. Yeah, it was, in fact, simply a fat joke.

Sometimes those are really fun. I mean, I remember roasting Ralphie Mae, because we were, like, at the time, we were pitching roast battle, and so we were, like, pitching it to HBO or something. And so me and Ralphie decided to roast each other. And I remember it was, like, right after the Ray Rice scandal had happened in the NFL. You remember he played for. for the Ravens, and it was like a big domestic violence scandal. And I said, Ralphie kind of reminded me of Ray Rice.

I was like, you're not an athlete, but no one would want to be in an elevator with you either. And that was like one of my favorite. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, Ralph Hay was like, I want to use this. I go, yeah, you should use it. It's a good joke. There is something about, like, the roast thing, too, that's about, yes, it's about, like,

going after people you love, but also about that, like, this is a space where we do those jokes. And part of it is just the craft of a really good fat joke, even if on some level we're like, we know we shouldn't be doing this. But this is the space where we do it. Yes. And I think, you know, when you really love somebody, you want to do stuff about them that you know that they will love or appreciate. And so with Ralphie, it was definitely, you know, I do a couple of fat jokes, but then I do jokes about him being a bad father or a bad husband. So it's like you kind of spread them out. And then maybe you just like trickle a little fat in there.

So, yeah, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, you know, making a roast. So, uh, now, I did want to ask you about a lot of sports news. Uh, and a second we're calling, don't hate the player. Oh. And basically, I just want to go through a couple of news stories just to understand why people are mad at an athlete. Okay. Uh, first up, why are people mad at, uh, Indiana fever guard Sophie Cunningham? Well, where do I start?

So Sophie Cunningham, she's recently become outspoken about trans athletes, specifically biological male transitioning into female and bringing that into locker rooms in the game. And so people are definitely upset about her with that. And even when they've asked her to kind of correct her stance, she's kind of doubled down on it. And I think, you know, in the sports world, it's obviously a nuanced conversation. and she is on a team with Caitlin Clark, and by proximity, she gets a kind of, and her, and there's another player on the team, they're called Tresleches, because they're the three white girls on the team. And, you know, so they already have, like, they call her Maga Barbie, so, you know, they, like, I

think the right is always looking for someone famous to cling on to. I mean, you've seen the lineup for America 250th. Like anybody who may have done something. Fog a mirror. We want you in the thing. Any time. And if you like Trump, then you're there. So I think she's become kind of the face of, you know,

like Riley Gaines went to a game and it's like, I don't think you've ever been to a WM. You know, like, so they're kind of clinging on to her as like this beacon of, you know, outspoken, right wing journalism. Yeah. I know. It's a very difficult. conversation. Well, because part of it is like, you know, people need to be able to have, of course,

people are free to criticize what she's saying, but also I think sometimes it's like, given that, I think most of the country at this point has now decided, basically they, they, they, if you like, kind of, you blur your eyes and like look at all the polling, it would say people don't want trans people to be discriminated against in their work and in their lives. They want people to be able to live themselves, but they have concerns about, they're concerned about young people and they're concerned about sports. They really, and, and so there's got to be, because I think like, then the, the, the, the coverage, especially from the left, then says that she's anti-trans. And then it's like, well, hold on.

If we define anti-trans as people who agree with this, then a lot of people are going to think they're anti-trans. But at the same time, I understand those who are like, well, I don't want to concede here because they don't care about sports. They really want to make trans people feel unsafe everywhere. Yes. And I think it puts the athletes in a tough position, too. For sure, because they're also the people playing the game.

Like, I shouldn't be involved in this commentary because I'm not in the locker room. I don't, I don't know. but I just know that there's arguments on both sides. There's no argument to the advantage of a biological male transitioning into a female that somehow that makes you, it's not like a man just puts on a wig and goes out. Like there are so many different drugs in their body. Like it's been proven that your lung capacity goes down. Like it doesn't mean that you're automatically advantaged just because you had testosterone

at one point. So I think that there's a lot of different research that needs to happen. And no one's really giving way to that and no one's really proving it. And honestly, I will care more about the seven trans athletes trying to get in professional sports when the Epstein files are released because I think it's all a distraction. Why are people mad at Aaron Rogers? Oh, Aaron Rogers.

So Aaron Rogers recently said that Dr. Fouchy, Tony Fauci, who he calls him, as if they're on a first name base. As if Aaron Rogers knows anyone's first name. that he should be in prison, that he's a criminal. You know, Aaron Rogers famously said he was immunized when they asked him if he took the COVID vaccine during COVID, and he said, I've been immunized. And then it later came out that he did not take the vaccine.

He was very anti-vaccine, and he was like, I didn't mislead the media. And so when he's recently said he was married, which everyone is shocked by, and everyone keeps saying he's been matrimon. because we've we've never seen his wife. Not that we need to, for that to be proof. But, you know, he's just a polarizing figure,

and he's always been outspoken on, in, you know, in right-leaning politics. So what was he, what was he, how could he be immunized? What did he mean? Did he mean that he had, like, natural immunity or? Yes, that he was taking Iver, he said he had a long talk with Joe Rogan, um, his doctor, apparently.

and that made, you know, that he had taken all the precautions necessary to not contract the disease. But he also refused to wear a mask. So there's that. I know. And finally, we have Motown legend Martha Reeves singing the national anthem before the first women's pro baseball league. Who could be mad about this? Endoms bursting. 10 out of 10, no notes.

Yeah, no notes. Absolutely my favorite national anthem of all time. It was definitely a rough start to the women's professional baseball league. And apparently she had had a couple conversations with those backup singers about the harmonizing because there were two country singers who got paired with her. It was the first day. And so I'm trying to look at it as, you know, there were some missteps. She put out a statement that said the field conditions were wet and windy and without stage monitors,

I wasn't able to hear myself as I normally would. While it wasn't the performance I had hoped for, I'm grateful to have been there to support these remarkable athletes in this groundbreaking league. That makes me sad. I think it's sweet. You know what's even better than that national anthem? Before the national anthem,

you know how like before a national anthem and a sporting event, they'll be like, please rise if you're able and remove your caps as we sing, as we celebrate America. And the women's professional baseball league, they said, please rise and remove your hats, caps, visors, and pedoras. And I was like, you know your audience. It was fantastic. Yeah, please remove your Brandy Carlisle branded fedora.

Yes. Before we sing the national anthem. Well, thank you, Sarah. And catch women's sports now Thursdays at 3 p.m. on ESPN. And listen to sports bitches. My podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be right back.

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And we're back. Please welcome to the stage. The man behind the manifesto is Dan Tiberskate. Hi, nice to meet you. Thanks for being here. Hi. Nice to meet you. So I want to talk about your new podcast, which is about manifestos, what they are, where they went, if we should bring them back. but I actually was excited to meet you because you did the podcast Missing Richard Simmons. I did. And I want to tell you something.

So do you know about missing? Do people know about this podcast Missing Richard Simmons? Yeah. And so basically, Richard Simmons just disappeared from public life and you went on a journey to find out why. Correct.

And to find him. Yeah. And you didn't. No. Well, I know, yeah. I knew where he was. Yeah, yeah. in his house.

Yes. But you didn't talk to him. I did not. And he didn't talk to you? No. No. And you never really saw him? No.

But you learned a lot. I did. About what led him to become so reclusive. Yeah, a lot of it's guessware, because I never talked to him, and so you're sort of. But yeah, for sure. Like, it was a long journey of figuring out why he would do something like that, why he would just be Richard Simmons for the most public celebrity for 40 years and then stop on a dime. And can I tell you that I have a little theory that I wanted to run by you ever since

that I listened to the podcast? which is, and I'm sorry, I'm just going to say what it is, I thought, what if he gained a bunch of weight and didn't want to be seen until he lost the weight, but then couldn't lose the weight? Yes, 100%. That was definitely one of the things we talked about. That was definitely a possibility, for sure.

But we don't know. No, we do know. He didn't gain the weight. We know that. How do you know that? There was a public, the police went and did a, what do they call, a wellness check to make sure after the podcast, they were like,

okay, we got to check this out. It was after the podcast. It was actually during the podcast. It was actually during the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, but it wasn't in the show. At the very end, it was in the last episode. So, they checked him? They checked and they said he's normal.

They said he was fit. They said he was, that he was in great shape. Like, they said that he was fine, he was lucid, he was. Then what was the deal? He, I don't know. I mean, a lot of it's conjecture, but I think ultimately it was that he had spent so many years, giving so much empathy to so many people, not being sort of professionally trained on how to do something like,

that and maintain that sort of work and sort of protect yourself at the same time. Because he has to go to the coffee shop and he has to be Richard Simmons at the coffee shop. He doesn't have to, but he was always Richard Simmons. Like, I've had dinner with him in public and it is wild. Like, he's like, I'll go to the bathroom and I swear to God, the next minute, we saw him jumping outside the window and he was outside on the street, jumping on down with people. Like, he just, he couldn't stop doing it.

He couldn't stop doing it. And so the thinking is that he basically the only way to stop being Richard Simmons was to stop cold turkey. And that meant all the people that he was helping, all the people that he loved, all of his friends. He never spoke to him again. And he never said goodbye. Wow. Yeah, it's really a wild, tender, moving story. He's an incredible person who had a really wild ending.

Yeah. I sympathize because everywhere I go, people want me to just put on this show. Totally. Dance, monkey, dance. And it's like, I'm sorry, I'm just off duty today. I can't give you that thing you're desperate for. I get it. But you love it. You love it a little bit. So your new podcast is called Manifesto. Yeah.

And now, look, I would say most people have a negative connotation with the term Manifesto because of, for example, the Unabomber. Yeah. But you have your own manifesto in the program, 11 points. Yeah. Give us a couple of them. Oh, God. I mean, the first one is you've got to get mad. Manifestos are amazing for channeling your anger.

And which is where a lot of this started for me, because I'm just so fucking angry all the time about the state of the world and the state of the cynicism out there and the shitty people who are running things and the direction we're going in. and like it's just this sort of thing that's like bubbling in me all the time. And I have imaginary arguments with people that I don't even know in my head all the time, people that I agree with. You know what I mean? Even more,

even more so than with the people I hate. Like, I'm more angry with the people I agree with, but they say things the wrong way. Or they just like are annoying or like, just anger. And manifestos are amazing for channeling anger and turning into action. Sometimes we'll be, so when I was a writer, a speech writer, I would often like kind of procrastinate slash think about what I was writing and I didn't realize but I'd kind of walk around

various government buildings kind of muttering to myself a little bit which is sort of part of I don't realize how much when I'm thinking I'm like kind of moving my mouth and now my husband will be I'll just will just be walking on the street or in the car and they'll be like who are you in argument right now? Yeah and I was like well sometimes it's like I just to admit sometimes it's such a crazy flight of fancy so for example yeah yeah they'll be like oh who

Who are you arguing with? And I'll be like, oh, I'm not arguing. I'm actually on the witness stand explaining how that road rage incident led to an accident that wasn't my fault. But the judge doesn't believe me. See, that sounds totally normal. I think that's crazy. It is crazy. I don't do other people do that?

Do you're a little, they go that far? Like you're all of a sudden, like all the way down the road fully beyond and now it's real, but you're so far. You get lost, right? And you're like, wait, where the fuck am I? Why am I arguing with imaginary person number two? And I'm like, yeah, it's insane. But see, sometimes I think, in part because of social media, in part because of my nature, that if I'm not careful, my ruminating over the little frustrations or big frustrations in the world,

that I then find them and seed them. And so I see a world. So every day I drive to work and someone cuts you off and someone lets you in. And I see a world of people cutting me off. I don't remember a world of people letting me in because my natural inclination and my proneness to thinking about the bad. moments makes me think that's what the world is. And so are we is a manifesto really are is the is the is manifesto really one that you ought to be directing at Dan Tversky. Yes. This is my manifest. This is my way of dealing with my anger. I'm angry. Yeah. It's but you seem angry too. Like you seem like an angry

guy. I mean I mean that I mean that in a as a biggest comment I could give. The way that I would say I would say I would say that I feel things deeply and briefly. I am often quite mad. Deeply and briefly. Deeply and quite briefly. It's a great combination. Yeah, no. Yeah, it's great for my colleagues. But no, but what else is on your manifesto? You wrote your points.

What are things that are on your list? I mean, it's about how to write the things I want to see in manifestos. Manifestos aren't just about anger. They're about having a vision for the future, right? It's like saying, this shit that's going in right now, it sucks, and we're going to change it. And here's how we're going to do it, and everybody lets fucking go. And so some of them are really simple. Like, pretend you're an army.

Like, the Unabomber used to sign his manifestos. FC, meaning freedom club, as if there was this big sort of network of people who agreed with Ted Kaczynski when it was just this guy. Yeah, and I just, we're, you know, just take a moment to say that we hate the Unabomber of what he did. Okay. No, I hate the Unabomber and what he did. Of course, obviously, but a lot of people think that some of the stuff that was in his manifesto of people are, it was beyond the pale in the 90s to look at his manifesto as anything other than incredibly violent and fuck you for doing it and like go to prison. for the rest of your life.

30 years later, you can look back on it and think like, yeah, this person had some rage and a lot of that rage was about technology and what it was doing to our society. Wasn't that crazy? Well, so there's definitely been there have been moments

where people have, I think, what's the kind of, to get a rise out of people, reproduce parts of Unabomber Manifesto because people think of fairly he's associated with his terrible crimes. But actually there was, like, you know, he had a job,

there was a critique in there. Now, I do not believe we should be... The fact that he gains this attention because he did these terrible things, I think is a reason to be cautious about kind of whatever, holding these things up. And I know you're saying, I'm just sort of putting this on the context-free internet.

But, like, to me, like, there's sort of... I think part of what we're talking about is distilling the, like, you know, Martin Luther nailing the theses on the wherever. The worms or whatever the fuck. Yeah, yeah. I don't remember. It was a long time.

time ago. Thank you, Mrs. Kagan, AP, AP European history. I wonder if she's alive. A lot of, I mean, especially with mass shooters, like mass shooter manifestos, I don't really consider them manifestos at all, even though people call the manifestos. You need a vision for the future, and mass shooters don't have a vision for the future. Nine times out of the 10, it's the last thing they're ever going to do. And so what they're putting out is a cynical document to begin with. A manifesto should take that anger and turn it into action and use poetry and inspiration and and move people to action. That's what a manifesto can be.

Common sense. Yeah, that's an old one. Sure. Yeah, Occupy Wall Street started with a manifesto. Most people don't know that. Yeah, and that worked out? It didn't have, of course, it 100%. It did not work out necessarily as planned.

But it moved hundreds of thousands of people. Like to send an email, the two activists sent an email to 90,000 followers saying, that's it, we're not going to fucking do this anymore. September 17th, everybody go to Wall Street. We're just going to sit down until somebody does something. And people showed up, and they kept showing up, and they kept showing up. And they really turned that anger ultimately into nothing. But long term, it really motivated a whole generation of people. We were just talking about Bernie Sanders.

Like a lot of Bernie Sanders followers were motivated by Occupy Wall Street. I also think it's a rep, right? Like, Occupry-Waltry was a rep. Like, it was people getting their reps of just doing a bit of activism that maybe they hadn't done before or seeing other people doing it. So I don't want to be too cynical about it because I remember finding it very... Yeah. No, but I remember at the time feeling kind of like inspired by the fact that so many people were willing to kind of just stake out that space. Yes, but also disappointing because the manifesto didn't say, here's what we're going to do about it. It said, we're angry, we're going to go sit, and they could never agree on what the point was. They can never agree on what they actually wanted to have happen. Here are some things from my man asbestos. People should be more direct. Okay. I'm sick of it. I feel like I pay a directness tax because I'm rude and you're not saying what you want.

People's movies should have intermissions because how long, even 90-minute movies? I would say any movie that's above one hour and 50 minutes. Even if you're watching it at home. Well, I mean, you can keep, you don't need to, you can fast forward. You're talking about going to the movies. Yeah, I'm saying. When's the last time you went to a movie? The Odyssey.

Besides that. Before that. I love the movie. Shut up. This is the problem, you said. No, I think it's great. So that I was saying the fucking nitpicking. Okay, here's my real, this is my big, my, this is, we should shift payroll taxes to income and corporate taxes, but we don't. Because companies pay a tax for employing a person and get a deduction for hiring a robot.

And I wish more people talked about this, even though it's a giant change and hard to do, because payroll taxes are a huge share of federal taxes. And it's how we fund social safety net programs and Medicare and social. security, but just because we get such a huge share of our revenue from payroll taxes doesn't mean we aren't wrong for not figuring out a way to change it over the long term. And one company that makes a billion dollars but has thousands of employees, I think we should collectively view as if all else equal, better than a company that makes a billion dollars and employs five people in a world where we want people to be able to work and earn a living. And so perhaps our tax code should be fundamentally changed to address that and nobody's doing it. And that's on my

manifesto. I think that's a great point in a manifesto. I think a little bit louder and a little bit shorter and like a little bit more like we weren't taking notes. We weren't looking for notes on it. No, and then finally everyone dunks on nepo babies, but if your goal is to become successful and have a family, your goal is to create nebo babies. So in a sense, you hate the children in your own fantasy. True. You know? Yeah. You're telling truth. You're telling truth. I'm kidding. You should give me notes. I shouldn't have said that. No, no. No, I feel bad about that. See, this is my problem. I'm not a manifesto guy. I'm more of a, hmm. Right, I'm nervous to say it out, trying out. Yeah, sometimes. Here's the thing, though, I will say this. I'm brave when I'm mad. And that's, I think,

the value sometimes of anger. Yeah. I'm brave when I'm mad too, actually. I don't have any fear of physical of anybody hurting me. Like, like, you know, like people, you see people in the street, like, even though you know they're going to get their ass kicked, like, I feel like I'm one of those people. I think that I would, like, I'll just, I don't care. Just hurt me. I think, I think, like, I think my fear response and will kick this, there's a kind of innate Ashkenazi I'm the I'm the kind of I'm the survivors of all the Jews

that ran you know that'll kick in something kind of sort of the mere cat energy of the Ashkenazi Jew but thank you Dan Taberski Dan Taberski's Manifesto is now available on Audible and wherever you get your

podcast and we'll be right back and we're back first of all let's welcome Sarah and Adam back to the stage Hi, come on in. Come sit back down. Come sit back down. All right, great.

Thank you all for being here. We've had a lot of fun tonight. We learned a lot, and I said a lot of things, some of which my producers think I should not have said. So it's time we look back on them in a segment we call second thoughts. Here's how it works. The team has assembled a list of my flubs and whiffs from the evening,

things they wish I had done different or better, and I'm going to run through them. if you have any second thoughts about this evening, whatever they may be, this would be a good opportunity to share them, and they're welcome because this is an opportunity for us all to just take a moment to reflect and things,

but things we wish we'd said a little differently or done a little better, because that's okay, we all mistakes, you know? We all do. That's what I think. First, my impression of Trump as a toddler had a sort of Transylvania accent. I can't even imagine Trump as a toddler,

because I feel like he still is. Yeah, you don't have to imagine. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I promoted a conspiracy theory about Stevie Wonder faking being blind for money. I don't even know

why the for money thing slipped in there. But I think that's a very valid... A lot of people believe that. Are you seeing TikTok? A lot of people believe that. Where he caught the mic stand? People really...

There's a video clip where he kind of catches a mic stand. It's like, what the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's like Daredevil. You know?

It's a very sound. Superhero. Yeah. They do make sounds. It's such an important point. Adam Conover. Oh, this is from the Adam. Adam portion of the show, I tried to reject your humanity to defend AI.

Oh, we got some strong opinions on the writing staff about AI. No, I regret, I, I talked over you a little bit. I feel badly about that. But see, I don't think you should because that's both of us, and that's how this was good. There's no, it's as much, no, you're, that's, that's, we're just shared responsibility. Hell yeah. We're told, you know, that's not, that's nothing to feel bad about. I, I describe driving while on Coke as cool.

Let's see. During the Sarah conversation, there was a brief point where we did some version of Al-Qaeda. You got to hand it to them. We'll probably come to regret that. It was cut from the show, but it did happen. And when you say you got to hand it to them, you mean like a severed hand that's been cut off, right?

Yeah. You should add that twice. Give me a hand for that. I imply that I'm a better roast writer than the ones I'm watching on Netflix. I just sort of casually said, I'm writing better jokes in my head than what I'm seeing on the screen. But isn't that every writer? I think when we watch the roast, we all put ourselves in there and we go,

oh, this is what I would have said. I do wish that I would have said that my biggest complaint about the roast, even though I'm a huge fan and I will consume all of them and I want to be a part of all of them and have a job on all of them, is that the roast used to be really personal, and now it feels like they're less personal, but their jokes are getting personal. Does that make sense?

Yeah, no, I know what you do. It doesn't feel like they know each other, but the jokes are meaner. Yeah, they're more targeted as if... Also, you're not funnier than those writers. I know a bunch of those writers. They're great writers. You're funnier than the comics, John.

The comics are the ones. They're doing the jokes bad. They're picking the wrong, jokes. One of them is Tony Hinchcliff. You know, it's, you're better than them. The writers are great. That's such an important point. And I agree. Thank you. Let's see. Oh, with Dan, struggling to accept that my Richard Simmons weight gain theory is incorrect. I simply don't, I can't take the facts. I simply believe that that's what the answer is. I think that's okay if you believe that. I don't think he's dead. So whatever led me to need to specify that I hate the

Unabomber. I don't know. You were really like, nobody. I'd listen. It's like 30 years ago. Like, nobody's worried that you think that you love the Unabomber. Oh. Sweet, sweet, sweet Dan in the, in his podcast.

I mean, didn't we all kind of love the Unabomber? Jesus Christ. He was on TV every night, you know, and OJ. We all loved OJ. We loved following the story. It was the nine characters. I bought the hoodie. I was excited.

Yeah. People who. I'm not going down for this. Statement. Hate the Unabomber. Fucking Ted Kaczynski with that dead-eyed stare and that little fucked up cabin in the woods. Yeah, I was going to say.

Blowing up people. I think we all dreamed of having a cabin in the woods and just getting away. Made packages scary. He seemed like the only happy guy in America. Yeah. He looked nothing like that drawing. He must have been so fucking thrilled

when he saw that drawing. He's like, I'm free forever. You know who really hated working from home was Ted Kaczynski. Oh, yeah. Don't come for me on the work from home. It's very, don't, no one should take away. You should be able to work from home.

I just want to, that's what I regret. People are so emotional about it. Look at you arguing with, look at you, Adam Conover, arguing with the comments section. Yeah. Adam, Adam, Adam, you're not mad. You're not mad at people understanding you. You're mad. You're arguing with people that are choosing not to understand you.

That's true. So how are you going to argue with them successfully if their purpose is to not understand what you're saying? I will say to you that I agreed with. with you so people can come with me, but I, and I, like, I enjoy working from home when I'm working on shows, like, you know, that are not comedies. But when I'm writing in a comedy room, I want to be with other comedians because that's when you, like, kind of think of things and just in conversation. Like, you'll be making fun of someone else's joke and that will lead to a story and then that will lead to a new joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which you can't get at home.

Yeah. I think that's such an important point. And I also do want to say, he wasn't even listening. Yes, I was. Yes, I. Yes, I. He wasn't. I was listening. He's like every one of my boss is in a your point. But to everyone out there who had a shitty office, you should get to work from home. You should get to work from home. But also you should go outside

sometimes and make sure you remind yourself to do that. Yeah, such an important point, Adam. The good things are good and the bad things are bad. People should get to do the good things. Sometimes going to the office sucks, but that doesn't mean on the whole we don't benefit from having an office to go to. Comedy

sucks when people are doing it from home. It's so much better if people are in a room together getting to riff, and you won't know it's a dog that doesn't bark. The Zoom rooms, they're grueling for people, but you don't know the work that was never produced, the things that never happened. It's not just this idea that, like, I feel like there was this idea that people want to go to the office

because there's something magical and sort of kismet that happens around the water cooler kind of diminishing it. It's like somewhere in between happenstance and like something mystical, and just the value of people and what people do when they're together. You know, and I don't think, I feel like it shouldn't be diminished, and I agree with you. And that's all I want to say about that. And finally, I'm sorry for speculating about whether or not my AP European history teacher is dead. And if Mrs. Kagan, you were great.

And that's our show. That's our show. Thank you so much to Adam Conover, Sarah Tiana, and Dan Tiberski. There are 88 days until the midterms and we'll be back next week with Lauren Weidman and Lisa Traeger. Have a great weekend. Love and or Leave it is a Cricket Media production. Our show is produced by Kendra James, Film, Film, Graff, Kelsey Gante, and me, John Lovett.

Our production team includes Hallie Kiefer, Sarah Lazarus, Roman Borsolino, Peter Miller, David Tolls, Claudia Shang, Jay Banks, Gavin Purcell, and Matt DeGrope. And our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.