Lovett or Leave It - Stephen Breyer, You Will Love Golf

Episode Date: May 22, 2021

Chelsea Handler joins to break down the week's news, from stalled commissions to spying whales. Ben Rhodes on what's next after a ceasefire in Israel. Erin Ryan and Crooked producer Caroline Reston join for the rant wheel (Dear Evan Hansen is discussed) and Justin Schweitzer from the Center for American Progress looks at Republican myths about jobs and unemployment. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, please visit crooked.com/lovettorleaveit. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

Welcome to Love It or Leave It, Vaxxed to the Future. Like one shot, two shot, green shot, blue shot. I don't really care as long as I don't get what you got. It's hard for me to vocalize, forgot how to socialize. So everything on Netflix, wait an hour and some grocery lines. It's really no surprise, I try to rise above it. Summer 21 is coming, everyone is gonna love it. Like one shot, two shot, sanitize. Maybe we can meet up for a walk outside. One mask, two masks, no mask, danger

Going back to the future looking like the Lone Ranger Yo! And even in dark times we try to do good But there's a lot of things I didn't do That I said I would, like write a book, paint a picture, ride a bike Well I got the boots but didn't even take a hike My seamless is blowing up, Cinnabon is showing up Yeah I want some fries with that, my belly size is blowing up I got a Peloton, I didn't even touch it

But at least I wrote the song and everyone is gonna love it Cause one shot, two shots, sanitize. Maybe we can meet up for a walk outside. One mask, two masks, no mask danger. Going Vaxxed to the future looking like the Lone Ranger. That incredible song was by Doug Ray. If you want to make a Vaxxed to the future theme song, please send it to us at leaveit at crooked.com. They have been so incredible.

Thank you all so much for sending in these songs. It really does mean so much to see how you support the show. It just means a lot to me. On the show this week, I talked to Ben Rhodes after news of the ceasefire broke about what lessons he learned from what he saw at the White House and what he hopes to see moving forward. I talked to Justin Schweitzer, who's at the Center for American Progress, about this debate over myths around a so-called labor shortage. And we brought back the rant wheel this week

with Aaron Ryan and Caroline Reston, and it was really fun. But first, she is a best-selling author, host of the new podcast, Dear Chelsea, and comedian whose latest stand-up special, Evolution, is out now on HBO Max. Please welcome Chelsea Handler. Chelsea, and comedian whose latest stand-up special, Evolution, is out now on HBO Max. Please welcome Chelsea Handler.

Chelsea, it's good to see you. John Lovett, it's always good to hear you and to see you. Let's get into it. What a week. Chelsea, thank you for being here, for graciously judging these jokes. Both House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell announced that they would oppose a bipartisan commission to investigate the January 6th insurrection. In other breaking news, the murderer on Mayor of Easttown has announced that he is not in favor of all this sniffing around that Mayor has been doing.

We should put Kevin McCarthy and Mitch fucking McConnell on Mayor of Easttown and let her take care of both of those dumb white assholes. Yeah, no spoilers for mayor of Easttown. We don't I'm fully caught up and I don't have any. But I will say that Kevin McCarthy's vibe is the character on a, you know, crime show that kind of is just on the periphery asking one too many questions, but kind of a nice, beloved person in the town. And then you're like, wait, hold on a second. Kevin McCarthy is like, you know what, you know, when like, we thought Ted Cruz was as spineless as it got, right? We thought Ted Cruz was like the worst version of a man you could imagine. Talk about having no spine at all. And then comes Kevin McCarthy. And you're like, and when you like look around the Republican Party, you just can't believe that how disgustingly low everyone can go.

It knows no bounds. It's actually, you know what it is? It's that like Ted Cruz is spineless, but he has a personality. It's a terrible personality, but it's a personality. You know, you could describe it. You could describe his character. Let know, you could describe it. You could describe his character. No, let me ask you a very serious question. If you had to have sex with Kevin McCarthy, Ted Cruz, or Mitch McConnell, or your entire family is taken away from you,

which one do you choose? You know what'm actually gonna switch out kevin mccarthy for matt gates oh my oh my god uh it's um i think i just have to say like i'm sorry family uh but uh you did you would let your family be shot by a firing squad instead of having sex with one of these men i mean i wouldn't do that to my family i would do it i would figure it out we're not that close well then they're okay then that's a solid answer no problem just mom i'm just kidding i'm I mean, I wouldn't do that to my family. I would do it. I would figure it out. We're not that close. Well, then they're okay. Then that's a solid answer. No problem. Mom, I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding. Mom, McConnell. Your mom is actually with me right now, so she can hear everything you're saying. She's furious. My mother is furious. She's like, you pick one. You pick one because you love us. You pick one.

I don't care which. You pick one, Jonathan. Oh, God. They're all so gross. Yeah. Capitol Police officers released a statement expressing their profound disappointment that Republican leaders were engaging in a cover up, but the letter was anonymous. So who's to say how police actually feel about getting nearly beaten to death with Trump flags while protecting the lives of the very people who egged on the mayhem who now say it never happened and doesn't matter. Maybe they love it.

Oh, God. You know, I love that the Republicans defend the police, defend the police, defend the police. And then when one of the police is killed because of Republicans behavior, then what? What do they have to say about that? Nothing. I mean, this whole entire commission to investigate this. Here, maybe you can actually explain this to me, John, because I was just reading an article in today's New York Times about it. And I'm like, it passed through the House with those 25 Republicans voting on it. Why won't it pass through the Senate? Because they need an extra vote? Like, I don't understand why we won the Senate, yet we can't get anything passed in the Senate. We have 50 and we need 60. And unless we change the rules, we need 60, which means we need 10 Republicans. So what is the rule when you just need 50 and one? So you need,

basically, right now, the way the Senate works, because it is broken, is for virtually all legislation, you need 60 votes. For nominations and for certain specific budget bills that really only affect like dollars and cents numbers or can be said to affect dollars and cents in numbers called budgets reconciliation, those things get 50. But because the Senate has been so broken, instead of reforming the rules to lower it from 60 to 50, we've just jammed more and more and more crap into the 50 threshold bill. So like the Trump administration passed tax cuts through reconciliation with 50 votes. They tried to pass Obamacare repeal with 50 votes to reconciliation.

Famously, John McCain, where he put his thumbs down. That was because he was supposed to be the 50th vote to get that done. Wouldn't do it. We just passed the Democrats passed their relief bill with 50 votes. The big guy. They pack all that stuff into like the infrastructure and the spending, like pork barrel it, right? So that they can get it passed through the 50 and then through the reconciliation. Okay, that's a great explanation. Thank you.

That just really clarified it for me. But the thing is, it's like, what's remarkable about this is like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema are standing in the way of doing anything with 50 that doesn't... They're basically refusing to do anything about the filibuster. And now it looks like there's a real chance that Republicans won't even allow this commission, which means that in the name of bipartisanship, Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema are going to stop an investigation into an insurrection to overthrow the government. So it's like, hey, I don't know, priorities. I like bipartisanship in theory, I guess. I really don't give a fuck. But whatever,

like it's not bad. But I definitely think finding out the truth about the attempted overthrow of the government is like more important, right? Like you can't have like it's better to have a partisan democracy than a bipartisan nothing, you know? Yeah. I have like it's better to have a partisan democracy than a bipartisan nothing. You know? Yeah. I mean, it's really disappointing. Joe Manchin and Kristen Sinema, like they are really these power plays like you comes down to you have this kind of idealistic idea about, you know, politics that people get into this for the right reasons. And then it takes 30 fucking seconds for them to become corrupt. You know, it's well, it's too quick. I think they're not corrupt. I think they're really obtuse. I think that they are misguided, obviously, with every, you know, they're politicians,

and they're behaving like politicians. And they view this opposition to the filibuster reform as in their interest. But I also do think we should treat it as a sincere view, because this isn't a pressure campaign needs to be part of this, but they need to be persuaded. They are too human. This is not like some big sweeping thing where if we get a certain amount of public support, we'll win. Like this is about the conscience and views and decision making and incentives and pressure on two human beings who are going to react like human beings who don't always respond well to being told what they should be for. Don't like being told that they're antagonists to democracy, right? Like we have to do carrot and stick. We have to figure out like what are they afraid of, but also what do they want?

Like what do they see? What do they believe about themselves? What do they want their role in history to be? Like we have to be really thoughtful about it because we can yell, we can scream, we can hate what they're doing, but like we fucking need them. Like we need them. And there's stuff we need them even if we don't get rid of the filibuster, right? There are potentially big votes coming up on things like the infrastructure package where we could do it

with through reconciliation with 51 votes if we can't get Republican support, which seems pretty hard to do. So it's like, it's this really delicate thing where like, even if they don't reform the filibuster, Joe Biden still wants Sinema and Manchin on his team for some of these big votes. So it sucks because millions of people worked so fucking hard to win this Congress. And what sucks is that it also, you know, maybe corruption isn't the right word, but the power play, like the position that Joe Manchin has found himself in and the way that he's exercising his power is so gross to watch. Yeah, there's arrogance to it. Yeah, there's so much arrogance to it, because it's like, he doesn't know the the wave of support that brought Joe Biden into office that

gave Democrats the House back that gave Democrats the Senate. It didn't put Joe Manchin in office, you know, really didn't. He feels outside of it. And West Virginia politics are not national politics. And we don't even know if Joe Manchin is going to seek another term. We don't know what Joe Manchin wants for his future. So it's, it is very frustrating. It's very frustrating that like the normal incentives of politics don't apply the basic argument that we have like one fucking chance to pass rules to protect our democracy before minority rule is enshrined in states across the country. We have this one, like we have like less, we have like 500 days to figure out how to like over, you know, there's a historically you lose seats when you have

the white house, you lose seats in Congress in that first midterm election. So we have this like incredibly short window to like defy history, like be an outlier in history by showing millions of people that Democrats really did get it done. And like, he is part of that. So yeah, it's super frustrating. It's a real bummer. Joe Manchin is actually over here too oh my when he comes out from underneath the table I'll tell him to say hello my father's gonna be so upset like you told me things with you and Joe are over Fran again my mom listens hi mom hi hi just want you to keep up with where we're at again it wasn't my hypothetical chelsea is who put you up against the uh firing squad uh but i did choose that uh but that was joking and i am now alleging that you are having a torrid love affair with joe mansion

uh which uh dad just found out about this is a busy day for your mom. She's having a blast. Yeah. Hey, mom, you're welcome. Tim Ryan, congressman from Ohio, had this reaction to when House Republicans opposed the commission. The other 90 percent of our friends on the other side of the aisle. Holy cow. Incoherence. No idea what you're talking about. Benghazi, you guys chased the former secretary of state all over the country, spent millions of dollars. We have people scaling the Capitol, hitting the Capitol police with lead pipes across the head, and we can't get bipartisanship. You know what, Tim? That was fucking great. You know, the wings of the plane shook a little when you said, holy cow,

we didn't know what was going to happen, but you landed it. That was cool. That was top Tim Ryan moment. Top Tim Ryan moment. I, when I first heard that screaming on TV, I was like, Oh, here's another Republican just fucking screaming, you know, making no sense. And then I was like, listening to what he's saying. I'm like, Whoa, this doesn't sound like a Republican. Hold on a second. So I immediately just assumed by looking at him for a split second and hearing him scream that he was a Republican. Yeah, that was a great, you know, it's, I don't understand how these people are able to even maintain any decorum

at all. Like why he's not cursing with fuck flying out of his mouth every 30 seconds, you know, to get that angry. It's like a real reaction. I'm so impressed that these people are able to even go to their jobs and not just toss it out the window and be like, you know what? Fuck it. I give up. These people are too fucked up. It's one of the worst offices in the world. You know, Ezra Klein talked about this a little bit in his book about polarization that like, what have you worked in an office where half the colleagues were trying to destroy the career of the other half all the time? Oh, my God.

And like it would it's a incredibly strange environment, even under the best of circumstances. But now you show up to work. You got anti maskers refusing to wear masks, refusing to you know, there was this CNN stern on the pot a little, let's face it, called all the Democrats and all the Republicans. And basically 100% of Democrats said we are vaccinated. And only 55% of the Republicans were willing to say they were vaccinated. That doesn't mean that only 55% are vaccinated. It's probably more.

But just the fact that a bunch of them view it as a gotcha question to say I am vaccinated. Like, what a shitty office. Like, what a crappy place to work. Well, what else? What about half of the population taking their medical advice from not a doctor or a scientist from a baboon that we elected president like taking their medical advice from Donald Trump is what they're sticking. That's that's who they're getting. Like he's fucking vaccinated. Hasn't he publicly talked about being vaccinated?

He refused to do it on camera, but he did it. He did say publicly that he did it. Yeah. I mean, that goes in line with like when, when they say, you know,

all of these guys go like McCarthy going down to kiss the ring. It's like he lost the Senate. He lost the house and he lost the state of Georgia. Why the fuck are they kissing the ass of somebody who lost so many things? The fact that even now, right, new polls come out and it's like, who do you Republicans, who do you want to be your nominee? And it's like 50 percent Donald Trump. Then it's like 13 percent Pence, 7 percent Don Jr. And then like Romney's at three percent,%, Liz Cheney at 1%, Ted Cruz at 4%, like Marco Rubio, 1, 2%. Like this, because the reason they have to do it is they made a devil's

bargain having never, I guess, learned how those end. Like they always end badly. You fucking morons. Like the story of a devil's bargain isn't I made a deal with the devil. I got everything I wanted with no downsides. Yay. Good for me. No, it's bad. It ends very poorly. Go see.

You don't even have to read a book. Go see damn fucking Yankees. Or pay attention to one of the four years that Donald Trump was president. And look how many people he demanded loyalty from who ended up either arrested, fired, or penniless. Like, I mean, come on. Speaking of Trump loyalists and deep shit, Joel Greenberg, the indicted Beavis to Matt Gates's butthead, pleaded guilty to six of the charges against him and indicated that he plans to fully cooperate with the feds.

That's tough news for Matt Gates, who immediately sent his lawyer a Venmo payment with the memo field tuition, but then in parentheses, kill Joel Greenberg. No, he didn't. He didn't. It makes me laugh, though, to think about him writing tuition. It's something that he could know. I just like, kill Joel Greenberg. That's like when you saw Paul Manafort walking into courthouse and you're like, okay, if he goes to jail, like, first of all, I can't wait for his hair to stop being maroon, you know, and go to it and see somebody actually suffering in the confines of jail for a crime

that's been committed. You see those guys enter the courthouse and you're just like, I can't wait to see how this plays out in prison for you. Manafort had great ties, though. They were nice ties. Nice, like, Hermes ties. I disagree, John. I found his style to be really atrocious. Okay.

And almost year-round trashy. Okay. We can disagree there. That's just a place where we can agree to disagree. We had to disagree about something. In billionaire divorce news, the Wall Street Journal reported that Bill Gates stepped down from the board at Microsoft during an inquiry into an affair with a co-worker. And according to The New York Times, Gates has a record of pursuing co-workers, which explains how whenever you start a document in Microsoft Word, there are a couple of years where Clippy would pop up and say, it looks like you're drafting a nondisclosure agreement. Do you need help making it Ironclad? Is she angry, Bill? Is she angry? How angry? I am into this story a lot because I don't find Bill Gates to be some sort of ladies' man.

But then again, he's a man. So of course he is. Or he fancies himself to be one. I was like, I just don't think he's the type. And my sister goes, he's a man. Every man is capable of this. Don't you understand? Haven't you learned anything in the last two years?

And then I did hear about, yeah, the Microsoft board. And then I heard that he, she had hired an attorney about two years ago, right? When she found out he was at a Jeffrey Epstein event. Yeah. So I think it's interesting. Like there's been a lot of like smoke and then, you know, oh, is it Epstein? Is it not Epstein? It's like, we don't know how boring the story is, right? Like this could just be the story of a rich dude who slept with a lot of people. It can still just be that, right? So, but like, there's a lot of people like, there's really, it's a lot of just like, I think, speculation on the Epstein side of it, which we don't really know. But then it is a lot of the other stuff.

There's, I think, more evidence. Yeah. I mean, when she went away to an island, like she was renting this island, right, in the Caribbean with her whole family and all the kids and all their spouses, it seemed to me that something must have went down. And in the description of the divorce, irretrievably broken, it's definitely seemed like a cheating situation, right?

Like, you know, just going to an island, like that's not necessary if you're having an amicable divorce. You don't need to go to an island. Well, you don't need to go to an island, but I don't know what it's like. There's a level of like, maybe that's like the equivalent of like

going to the garage. That's like me going to my friend's house. Yeah, like I just need a few minutes. I'm gonna go clear my head in the garage. She goes to the island. So we don't know. We don't know. No, we don't know. We don't know. No, we don't know what we don't know.

But thinking of Bill Gates as a ladies' man is very entertaining. I do think there's something that happens when these – and obviously we learn something more horrible. We'll learn something more horrible. But like these nerds, and I say that with love as one of their ilk, you never stop being a kid that was a nerd in high school. You know, they never stop needing to prove that that chip I don't think comes off the shoulders. I don't know. I don't know how much that chip on your shoulder costs, but it's more than what Bill Gates has.

It's like more money than what Elon Musk has. They have that chip on their shoulder is very expensive to purchase. And so it just stays there. And then it's like they got to do all this shit just because they were nerds in high school with acne and glasses like that is like so much of our society's problems just all they needed was just just could have come somebody been nice to these fucking kids when they were working at their computers right or get it or if they had gotten like one blow job before the age of 30 you know what i mean just so throw somebody somebody throwing them a single bone. You're absolutely right.

My friend always goes, marry the nerd, marry the nerd. It's like, no, not necessarily. Nerds seem like, you know, a good thing on paper that when they grow up and they mature, that they're the solid ones. It's like, yeah, but they all do have a chip on your shoulder. You said it perfectly. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, marry the nerds.

Maybe just don't, you know, the nerds are bad. The jocks are bad. Men are bad. Straight men are bad. Just steer clear of the category. What we're learning is that all straight white men are evil. And we need to take appropriate action. We're in a period of probation.

This is the probation for white straight men. That's the commission. That's the commission that we need. Yeah, exactly. And when you guys are off of probation, like when white men are done, straight white men are done, we will let you know. Women will let you know that we can start going back to normalcy. But until you prove to us that you are all not predators, because so many are, you know, because so many are, you know, we need to just see more proof. Or just creeps. Or just creeps. And if you're not a creep, you know somebody who is creepy and you didn't say anything. In Florida, an alligator, that's true. In Florida, an alligator was relocated by authorities after chasing customers through a

Wendy's parking lot to protect the community. They took it to a Hardee's. I don't even know what that means. First of all, the chicken nuggets from Wendy's, can I just say, are the best chicken nuggets available? No. They are. Yes, they are. No. Those are better, John. The McNuggets. The McNuggets. The McNuggets are the best in the business. That's it. No, no, no, no. You're wrong. You're wrong. First of all, those aren't even nuggets, what McDonald's put in there. If you read the small print, it says with rib meat. You know what rib meat is, John? Not fucking rib meat. Delicious, delicious, delicious meat. You know what? I will not have... Look, you PETA people have been spreading misinformation about McDonald's nuggets for years, all right? Why don't you pull up to a Wendy's, okay,

and find out what I'm talking about? You think that I don't know what a Wendy's chicken nugget tastes like? There is no chicken nugget in this country that I cannot tell you about. I know the nuggets, Chelsea. I know the nuggets. Have you had Chick-fil-A nuggets? You bet I have. You bet I have. Well, you shouldn't be eating Chick-fil-A.

Yeah, you think that was a trap? You think I don't know? Guess what? I see your trap. I step into it. You don't think I know? You don't think I don't know the reason I don't know it was a fucking trap? You're so stupid.

I stepped into it. The Nugget Nuggets are the best things that have ever come out of Chicken Nugget Land. I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this. Purely on taste, McDonald's McNuggets, the best. But second, Chick-fil-A nuggets. Why? Tiny bit of danger.

Tiny bit of risk. You're doing something wrong. That adds something to it. Adds something to the experience. Like, look at this. I'm being naughty. I shouldn't be eating this nugget. It's both bad for me and I kind of remember that some anti-gay shit that may have happened in the past.

And that all feeds to why I really like those Chick-fil-A nuggets. Don't tweet at me anymore about it. I've seen the tweets. It hasn't stopped me. And kind of remember, I think, is the catch-all phrase that you can just remind people of. You kind of remember something, but you're not sure what. And I don't want to know. And you know what? If you didn't want me to eat Chick-fil-A, they shouldn't have put it in the Century City Mall. What were we talking? This is about politics. Also this week, activists are trying to find a sanctuary for a beluga whale spotted off the coast of Norway wearing a Russian harness that was thought to be a Russian spy. It's a Russian spy whale.

This will soon be adapted into a major motion picture called License to Krill. I'm just kidding. It's called Tinker Whaler Soldiers by... I'm just kidding. That's not what it's called. It's called From Russia with Blubber. That's better. That's better.

I'll stop now. It's called From Russia with Blubber. That's better. That's better. I'll stop now. I like the beluga whale story, and I do believe that Russians, I would put a harness on a whale to spy on us. I believe that wholeheartedly. I have a Russian sister-in-law, and I'm even suspicious of her.

What kind of harness is she in? She's Russian, and she's a Putin loyal to loyalist loves to talk about what a strong leader putin is and that he doesn't poison anybody and that's no propaganda american propaganda american propaganda yeah okay great yeah nivalny is like oh no why am i almost getting killed by this how does this propaganda making me so sick yeah when I brought up to her Crimea, the annexation of Crimea, she said, Chelsea, they voted. They voted. The Russian people, the Crimeans voted for Russia. They wanted Russia to come in and take them. I'm like, that's propaganda, Olga. That's propaganda. Nobody wants Russia to come in and conquer them. No one. And finally, Andrew Giuliani,

son of Rudy Giuliani, a man who definitely falls asleep on the couch in front of the TV every night and then moves to the bed at like 4 a.m., said this about his own nascent campaign for New York governor. I'm going to make you qualify for that. Sure. Well, I'm the only candidate that spent parts of five different decades of my life in politics or public service. How do you get five decades? How do you get five? Parts of five decades. Let me clarify. I said parts of five decades in there. How do you get to five decades? You're 35.

That doesn't even work. So what he's counting, what he's basically saying is it counts because he's saying the 80s, the 90s, the 2000s, the 2010s, and 2020s, which means he's counting when he was a child and his dad was running for office. He's saying, like, I am qualified to drive this Acela because my daddy took me on a choo-choo train. That's the level. That's the level. Totally. Well, he's a Giuliani.

So, you know, I mean, we've already seen what happens as they unravel going into their later years. The idea that anyone in New York wants to elect another person with a last name, Giuliani, after this last four-year performance by his father is very amusing. It's awesome. Chelsea Handler, it is always so good to see you. This was so much fun. Best to you.

Best to Olga, your Russian spy. My Russian sister-in-law. Say goodbye to your mom. She's still here. Say goodbye to Joe Manchin. Joe Manchin is still here, too your mom. She's still here. Say goodbye to Joe Manchin is still here. Joe, Joe is still here. And there's a couple other people hanging out in my gym. So I have to go check out and see who's here, what other politicians are here and which ones want to confront me. back, switching gears, obviously, I talked to Ben Rhodes about the ceasefire and lessons he learned after his time in the White House. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. We are joined by former Deputy National Security Advisor to President Barack Obama, current co-host of

Pod Save the World, and someone who has been subjected to so many right-wing bullshit attacks, you'd think he was a Muslim woman. Ben Rhodes, thank you for being here. I want to start by asking you about the ceasefire, which is obviously welcome. But I wanted to ask you, because you were in the White House the last time there was a ceasefire, and that was after weeks of violence by Hamas directed at Israeli civilians and by Israeli defense forces inside of Gaza. What happened after the last ceasefire? What did it look like after it took effect? Well, the same thing that happened after the ceasefires in 2009, the ceasefires in 2012, things got worse. And that's actually why I think we need to be cautious. I welcome the ceasefire

in terms of the fact that obviously it's going to save people's lives, that there's not active military operations. But basically, if you look at 2014 to 2021, what's happened since then with respect to the Palestinian circumstance? Prime Minister Netanyahu used to say he was for a two-state solution, now says he will never allow it to happen on his watch. The settlements continue to expand significantly, including into areas where Palestinians actually lived and have been displaced. The humanitarian situation in Gaza continued to get worse. And then Trump obviously came in and basically gave Netanyahu every single thing he wanted on this issue. And it led to the kind of extreme hopelessness that

was so present throughout this last Gaza conflict. What was different this time is there's no peace process. There's no talk of a two-state solution. There's no sense that there's any hope, not just for people in Gaza, but for Palestinians and Arabs in Israel itself, and then obviously in the West Bank. So, but I think people need to have eyes wide open that the ceasefire helps save lives, but it doesn't solve the problem. You know, I remember actually, at the White House, I remember you saying this to me, you were frustrated because there had been another round of criticism of the Obama administration for not being pro-Israel enough for one reason or another. I don't remember the exact circumstances.

But I remember you saying, if you believe in Israel's right to exist, that means you believe in a two-state solution. And if you believe in two-state solution, the only way forward is to stop some of these settlements, is to stop some of the ways in which Israel is undermining the prospects of a peace process. Now, here we are, it's a decade later almost. And, you know, Benjamin Netanyahu has abandoned a two-state solution. And now there are more people advocating for a one-state solution. The Kerry plan is still out there. You talked about this with Tommy and Pod Save the World. That is the last democratic

plan that exists for a path to a two-state solution or an opening bid towards a two-state solution. Where is your head at on that debate right now? What do you think of these arguments being made for a one-state solution versus a two-state solution? I think we have to step back and be honest about where the situation is and where it's going. Because, you know, I get, you know, I get attacked by all manner of people, you know, who don't like what I say about this issue. But then I think sincerely some people that will point out that, you know, get attacked by all manner of people, you know, who don't like what I say about this issue. But then I think sincerely, some people that will point out that, you know, the Palestinians didn't take the deal at Camp David, which was now over 20 years ago. But the reality is, how could this end? It could end in a two-state solution. And everybody knows what that looks like.

And the Kerry plan identifies it. And it's, you have to give the Palestinians enough that they actually have a state and that the Palestinians in East Jerusalem have a capital there. That's one way this could go. The other way it could go is where it feels like it's going, which is that Israel wants to have control over all the land from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River. So basically the entire West Bank. And that over time through attrition through five, 10, 20 years, the Palestinians just have to submit to that or leave. And then the other way is to say, you know what, we're for one state in which Palestinians have equal rights with Israelis. There's not another way this can go. You know,

what I always say to people who, you know, kind of get critical of me for being critical of the Israeli government is, what is your solution to dealing with the Palestinians? You know, like they live there. There are millions of them. They are human beings that live in Gaza and the West Bank and Jerusalem. Some in refugee camps. And there's never an answer, right? And the Israeli government has actually now become more open in its aspiration for a greater Israel, for basically controlling all the land. And so where's my head on this? My head is like, I'm still a two-state solution guy because that seems like the best outcome to this whole thing. I have to wrestle with and acknowledge the reality that that sounds meaningless. What does that mean to a Palestinian kid? Just an American talking about a two-state solution when their lived reality is something that is making that impossible. Then I see the logic of

people who say, let's have a one-state solution, whichever has equal rights. That too seems like it could be, you know, a just outcome. John, like we have trouble enough living with Republicans in this country, like envisioning a reality in which Israelis and Palestinians kind of all live peacefully and prosperously together. It's just hard to see that happening. And so I think we're stuck where we are, you know? Yeah. You know, you talked about this with Tommy a bit, how unsustainable this all is. And yet it has been... Sustained. Sustained for decades.

It has gotten worse. And do you know what a shepherd tone is? No. Have you heard of a shepherd tone? It's an audio illusion. It's a scale that sounds like it's rising forever, but never actually rises. It just is perpetually getting more and more and more elevated.

You know, you mentioned that Benjamin Netanyahu has now said no two-state solution on his watch. He obviously doesn't believe in a state in which there are more Palestinians than Jews in a democracy, right? He does not believe in that, right? So is that simply acknowledging that what he wants is a permanent situation in which the Palestinians are non-citizens in Gaza and the West Bank and second-class citizens inside of Israel? I don't know how you look at that and calculate and conclude anything differently, because the situation is essentially, the occupation is permanent. The Israeli settlements are just eating away at the land where the Palestinians live. And life is being made so miserable for Palestinians.

They're either forced to leave or maybe they choose to leave. I mean, that's the logic of what is happening with the Israeli government's policies. If you don't think that's right, you don't do Israel any favors by saying you won't criticize it over that, or you won't question whether the U.S. should continue to provide almost $4 billion a year in assistance to a government that is doing that. The question is, what can change that? Obviously, the biggest thing is that there's a shift in Israeli politics. The challenge is that Israel has been moving more to the right in its politics. And so one of the only other things that can change that, I think, is the United States. And I think that Americans, and particularly American Jews, I was listening to

you on Positive America, kind of feel this intuitively, right? Because you want Israel to succeed. You want it to be both a safe haven for the Jewish people and a just place. But how can you ignore where this is all going? I was really trying to be honest about it and say, like, look, I, as a Jewish person, I do see Israel as a refuge for a persecuted group of people that almost wiped Jews off the planet. And they continued after the Holocaust. And when I said that I was a Zionist, I think there were a lot of people who just said they stopped listening after that. And I wish they hadn't, right? I wish they had continued listening.

Because what I said is, as someone who believes in Israel, I don't understand how you can believe in Israel without also recognizing that Israel is never going to be safe and free and sustainable if the Palestinian people are subjected to indiscriminate killing, are not free, are not able to build a life, are not able to build a country, that that is not sustainable. I do think it's important that we talk about that. I think that the reaction, you might have gotten to that too. What's interesting to me about that is, John, like you, I probably, you know, I grew up in a household with a Jewish mother who, that is, John, like you, I probably, you know, I grew up in a household with a Jewish mother who, you know, Zionism was not inconsistent with kind of secular socialism, you know, like the kibbutz, you know, like the Israel. And I think what people have to recognize is you and I grew up at a time when it was still in kind of recent memory that Israel was like this underdog, you know,

fighting off its neighbors, claiming its capacity to live as a free and independent state, but rooted in some pretty left wing values, you know, equal rights for all of its citizens. And what you've had over the particularly kind of turbocharged since Rabin's assassination, not to kind of get too into history here, is just this kind of steady march to the right in Israel for a lot of reasons. into history here, is just this kind of steady march to the right in Israel for a lot of reasons, some of them demographic, some of them political, some of them tied to the global trend of the rise of kind of ethno-nationalism. Bibi's been at the vanguard of all those trends. What I keep coming back to is not only do I worry about like how secure could Israel be if it doesn't address this, but what kind of world is it in which ethno-nationalism is on the march? That ends up usually being a really dangerous world for Jewish people. It always comes back, and we see this even now, right? Like the rise of anti-Semitism from all directions in some extent.

There's a formula to how people talk about this and the two-state solution and the final status issues. If you've ever had a speech about this, there's a whole language of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Maybe it's just time to throw that language out and just consider the experience of a Palestinian child who has no freedom of movement in Gaza, who has no running water for most of the day,

who has no electricity, who has no political leadership to speak of. They have Hamas, who, you know, I'm sure they don't have much love for, and don't even belong to a nation. It's not right. You know, Jewish who, you know, I'm sure they don't have much love for, don't even belong to a nation. It's not right. You know, Jewish ethics, Jewish traditions, like Jewish experience, like should tell you that's not right. And it can seem hopeless, but if you give into that, you know, you'll never fix it. Ultimately, what has to happen is a shift inside of Israel. But I think

America is deluding itself if we act like we have no agency here, you know, to try to affect that. also unable to form a government. It is a moment which right-wing politics is not being fully embraced as the answer, but there doesn't seem to also be a coalition, an alternative coming together to offer something different. And I think that's true in terms of what we're seeing in Israel, but also in our own language, in our own conversation. I feel the same way. I'm not an expert in this. I look to you. I look to others for the language of how to talk about this, how to believe in, how to advocate for the rights and lives of Palestinian people while believing in the project of Israel. One mentality might say that because of the experience of the Jewish people throughout history, Israel deserves exceptions. You know, Israel deserves to be able to do certain

things that we probably wouldn't agree with if other governments are doing it. Again, I think that that ultimately is a dangerous world for the Jewish people, not just because of the state of Israel, because the more just and peaceful the world is generally, the less things like anti-Semitism take root. I just worry about where this is going without a course correction. Look, sometimes we want to find a way out of these conversations that leaves people feeling hopeful, but there isn't. No, it's a hard situation. What's hopeful is that young people –

you even mentioned that Bibi's tried four times now, four elections, and he couldn't form a government. The Israeli people are ambivalent about something. And you talk to Israelis. They will, through their own trauma, tell you about terrorism and Hamas rockets in very persuasive ways. But then they know this doesn't feel right. I mean, not all of them. Some are very right wing. And we should add, just like in America, people I really don't agree with here. And often, by the way, the debate inside of Israel

on the question of Israel has been more fulsome and wider than the one that are happening around the world for social justice, racial justice, equality. You know, the most notable thing that happened to me on the Palestinian side during the last couple weeks was a nonviolent general strike. You know, nonviolence is a hopeful thing. If there's hope, it's that people, even though it's so hard, I mean, I admire so many people like who've spoken up here, including, you know including you see these young Jewish voices who it's painful to speak out, but there's something hopeful about people who care enough to say, this doesn't feel right to me. Yeah, and I do think it was striking that the leadership of Hamas declared victory.

Benny Gantz, who was the Israeli defense minister, declared victory. But I think there is not a person watching this conflict that thinks anybody won anything. No, nobody won anything. That's kind of, except Bibi, you know, who probably, you know, won himself at least another election, you know. Ben Rhodes, thank you so much. And everybody should pre-order Ben's book. It's called After the Fall. It has a subtitle, but you don't need that to Google it. Just Google After the Fall, Ben Rhodes. Thank you so much to Ben for joining us. When we come back, The Rant Wheel. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. Now it's time for The Rant Wheel. You know how it works.

We spin the wheel wherever it lands. We rant about the topic. This week, we are joined by Crooked producer extraordinaire Caroline Rustin and the host of Hysteria, returning champion, Erin Ryan. I didn't know there were champions of this. There are champions. Caroline, this is your first time on Love It or Leave It. This is a historic day. This is a historic day. It is my first time.

I'm so excited. And I'm Erin's producer on Hysteria. So full circle moment here. Pretty exciting. I'm so excited. And I'm Aaron's producer on Hysteria. So full circle moment here. Pretty exciting. Pretty exciting for everybody. This week on The Wheel, we have Dear Evan Hansen, Chris Cuomo, The Texas Abortion Law, The Electric Ford F-150, The Friends Reunion, Barry Diller's Little Island. We have Denying Nicole Hannah-Jones' Tenure, and we have Justice Stephen Breyer.

All right, let's spin the wheel. It has landed on Nicole Hannah Jones being denied tenure in North Carolina. This is a quick one. Two points about this. One, obviously, this is a political decision because there's been a lot of fear mongering and bullshit about the 1619 Project and any other any other explanation is so clearly false on its face. Two, there are so many people who have made lovely boutique substack careers out of decrying cancel culture. This is cancel culture. That is what this is. If there's any definition of it that makes sense, this is one of them. This is someone who is eminently qualified being denied a tenured position because of her politics, because her politics are viewed as

either controversial or run counter to Republican orthodoxy or other orthodoxies about the founding of this country. And it is so obvious and it is so obviously an opportunity for people who claim to care about what they call cancel culture to show that they don't just mean when it comes from the left, but they're not taking that opportunity. And it's interesting. It's interesting when it's not from the left, when it's about race, when it's about a black woman being denied a position because of her views on race. Suddenly they go pretty quiet. Suddenly they have lots of questions. Suddenly they are very, very curious about the exact way in which the decision was made. There's something about our politics. Maybe this was always true where our politics revolves around terms and then those terms are stripped of all meaning. our politics revolves around terms and then those terms are stripped of all meaning like that just happens over and over again like fake news cancel culture we can make a huge list of them like

we create these terms and then both sides create their own they either have no meaning or created like a no definition that that applies universally and so it just becomes arguments over semantics but like i don't know what cancel culture is. If it means anything, it to me means punishing people for politics you disagree with, that are actually totally reasonable parts of our debate. And it means corporations overreacting to criticism and viewing it as in their interest to accede to that criticism rather than standing behind their people. And we have two examples this week. We have Hannah Nicole Jones and we have this reporter for the AP who was fired for her tweets and her past support of Palestinians. And both are examples of a of whatever cancel culture means. It means this. And it's amazing

who cares and who doesn't. You know, I would add to the point that you were making about taking terms and overusing them to the point that they're stripped of their meaning. I think that there's a deliberateness to it. Like fake news does have an important, it's disinformation, like and propaganda. And those are really important tools of the right. And then all of a sudden, Donald Trump starts starts yelling about it like it's something that mainstream media is doing to so it totally sands down any meaning that it could have when we use it to say the thing that it means cancel culture has always been a right-wing endeavor it's always been something that conservatives have have worked to do and and and to say that it is something that liberals are doing takes that word away from us and takes the real definition away from a real thing, which is what you were just talking about.

Yeah, I think that's right. That's right. Let's spin it again. It has landed on the Friends Reunion special suggested by one Caroline Reston. Okay, so love it. First of all, thanks for bringing me. Thanks for bringing me in to bring attention to this like really niche but critically important issue. The Friends reunion on HBO. It's happening. Everyone's super excited. But I'm asking myself, why? Now, I don't need this reunion. But let me first preface this by saying you will be hard

pressed to find another human being in this world who is a bigger fan connects to the show more in their bones than i do like when i was younger this show was my personality i'm a huge fan that said we don't need this reunion giving us a friend's reunion feels like a getting a documentary about keeping up with the kardashians like what else do we not know about this show when i watch this trailer like i already know all these like fun facts like i don't need to watch matt leblanc get facts about his own show incorrectly it's literally infuriating and they all went on to be like major stars and like oversaturated like we see them on instagram we see them on interviews i pretty much would say lisa kudrow's show web therapy was a friend's reunion considering every single one of them was on it can i just i'm sorry to

interrupt but i just also want to say that weby was so ahead of the fucking game. It's a Zoom show. It's a Zoom show. It is literally a Zoom show. It's amazing. Sorry, Caroline. Please continue. No, so you watch it. So like the entire cast was on that show. So I feel like we've pretty much see them reunited 400 times or feels like there's nothing

that special or that shocking that can come out of this. So do I need a check in? No. Now, with that being said, I did cry when I watch a trailer and we'll be watching every second, but I'm not happy about it. And I don't like that this new generation is all up in my favorite show. So no, I don't need it. End of rant. Counterpoint. So when I saw that there was going to be a Friends reunion, my first thought was, that rules. I want to see these six people do an episode of Friends now. That's really, I'm interested in that.

I'm interested in that content. I want to find out what happened. I want to see them doing those characters all these years later. And then I saw the trailer and I was like, oh, I see what happened. Nobody was interested in doing that. And they all said, basically, we'll give you one day and we'll do whatever you want but we're not gonna like act we're not gonna come in and be the characters so they seem to have gotten them to do some kind of a table read of an episode which I think is so funny and they did some kind of

conversations I believe they marched them all out to the fountain to see the fountain again something about it felt like I know, obviously, they're all like, obviously, you know, you get older with time. But something also about it felt like so slow. And I'm like, what am I watching? And what happened to the men? What happened to the men? Don't you know what? You know what? Shame on you. Shame on you. What happened to them? I have questions. Aaron, any thoughts? Yeah, I never really watched Friends, but I did live in New York City for

almost seven years. And I think that a Friends reunion, if it was going to be realistic to the authentic living in New York City for a long time experience, would be about how they all got married and had kids and moved so far away from each other they never saw each other again. Rachel moves to Queens and they lose track track of her and they're like oh she's still alive that's cool it's just not it's not realistic there are a lot of reasons that friends is not realistic to the experience of living in new york city namely that like it's weird that they're all white that just doesn't seem quite right to me. But it is also weird that they stayed in touch all this time

because literally I ended friendships because I was like living in Harlem and somebody moved down to Crown Heights and it was like, well, never going to see that person again. I'm interested in the content. I want to see what, I want to see them all together.

I mean, of course I'll be watching. I mean, the trailer literally made me cry, even though I'm angry about it. It was emotional. They like put that they like slow down. I'll be there for you. Like they do a slower tempo pace and you're like, damn it. Damn it. I also am pretty sure they're not ready for the exploration of Chandler's character as the villain of the show. But we're not ready for that yet. We're not ready for that conversation. Let's spin it again. It has landed on Dear Evan Hansen. All right, so here's what I want to say about this. So there was a, the trailer is out of the film version

of the hit Broadway musical Dear Evan Hansen. And a couple points. One, I am glad that people are finally coming to understand that this musical is not what they thought it was or assumed it was, which is the story of a sweet, befuddled, bully, gay teen trying to fit in with other kids, but is in fact about a nebbishy sociopath who dupes a grieving family. I'm very excited that people are learning the truth about Dear Evan Hansen. This is something I've talked about for some time, didn't get the attention it deserves. Now, I think the songs are beautiful. I actually

really loved the musical. It worked on me. I cried. Questions about the moral values. Questions about the moral values. But that's not what people are focusing on. There are a lot of people focusing on the fact that, to their mind, Ben Platt does not look like he is still in high school. And you know what? Ben Platt is not in high school anymore. But that's not the problem.

The problem is there aren't enough cool parts for weird, gay, magically talented people. And it's so far been up to basically Ryan Murphy to find parts for weird, gay, magically talented people. And it's so far been up to basically Ryan Murphy to find parts for weird, gay, national treasures and aging female movie stars. And it can all rest on Ryan Murphy's shoulders. All right. Like I watched The Politician on Netflix. All right. And that was great. And it was great to see Ben Platt in that.

The injustice here. All right. Put aside the critical tweets. There's not enough in this world for Ben Platt to do. All right. And that was great. And it was great to see Ben Platt in that. The injustice here. All right. Put aside the critical tweets. There's not enough in this world for Ben Platt to do. All right. And he's a national treasure. Also, another important point. All the Evans Hanson are dating each other. They're all dating each other. There's like at least two couples. They all hook, which I think is hilarious. They just the Evans Hanson just hook up. And I think is hilarious. The Evans Hansen just hook up and I think that's great and sweet and a great Broadway tale. And I do remember sitting in the theater in Broadway. I saw it on Broadway, obviously.

And about like a few minutes in being like, I'm sorry, is this a straight character? Does this character have a crush on a girl? Okay, okay, Broadway. Okay. Okay, Broadway. Okay. Cool. Cool. I love that the Evans Hansen all date each other.

That is so sweet. It's like when that women's hockey player from Canada married the women's hockey player from the U.S. national team. Or like when two women's soccer players date each other. It's like the same feeling when two Evans Hansons are dating each other. I just think it's so funny because it's like, yeah. I just think it's great that like Evan Hanson, the character, has a crush on the sister in the family. He's a fool.

But in real life, Evan Hanson has a crush on Evan Hanson, which I think is great. Let's spin it again. It has landed on the Texas law banning abortion, which was suggested by Aaron Ryan. I am always willing to, wherever I am, just kind of yell about abortion. That's just my, it's basically my personality. But this week I've been yelling about abortion more than usual. So this week, Texas Governor Greg Abbott, flanked by about seven Aunt Lydia's

and a dozen Viagra ads worth of grinning white men, signed into law one of the most draconian abortion restrictions in the country, which is a ban on abortions after six weeks gestation, with no exception for rape and incest. It's really, really cruel. It's incredible to me how little these fuckos seem to know about pregnancy. Like, first, most women don't know they're pregnant until they miss a period, at which point they are four weeks pregnant by the medical definition. Most OBGYNs don't see pregnant patients to confirm that they're pregnant until they're eight weeks pregnant because the embryonic tissue is so small, it's hard to even detect with an ultrasound before eight weeks.

And furthermore, the so-called heartbeat isn't even real. A heartbeat, the heart isn't formed at all yet. It's just an electronic pulse and a connection of cells that will eventually become a heart. But facts don't matter to these people. I want to quiz Greg Abbott on the actual biology of what pregnancy is or what pregnant bodies go through and how hard a wanted pregnancy is on a human body and how cruel it is to force somebody who doesn't want to be pregnant to go through it because it's fucking cruel. Governor, do you know how many centimeters a cervix needs to be dilated in order to enable

childbirth? It's 10 centimeters. It's like this. It's big. And you just want people to go through that who don't want to. And Greg, can you explain what pelvic floor collapses? Don't Google it if you don't know already. Just suffice to say, it's deeply unpleasant.

But all the science aside, it's not like Abbott or his ilk have done jack shit to make life easier or safer for parents and children apart from this abortion restriction. Like Greg Abbott has said nothing in the fight for paid parental leave. He actually fights against it. He has done nothing to protect pregnant workers, fights against that. He has not done anything to regulate toxic chemicals that are dangerous to moms and babies, fights against that. Done nothing to address the black maternal mortality rate in this country or over-incarceration of mothers in a way that like separates them from their kids. Doesn't ever fight that either. He has not fought limiting access to guns. He's

tried to make it easier for people to have access to guns, which often tend to kill people, including children. He has not done anything to protect unvaccinated kids from COVID. He's not done anything to promote affordable health care, comprehensive sex ed, access to birth control, universal pre-K and affordable daycare. All of the reasons that parenthood is difficult. He has not done anything to fix them. So all these people want to do, they don't want people to become parents.

They don't want people to become parents. They don't want people to become mothers. All they want to do is say, fuck challenge to Roe that the court will hear since they have been 6-3 majority conservative. We know that five justices on the court are very, very conservative and maybe John Roberts will defect, but it kind of doesn't matter at this point. at this point. The Mississippi law that is going to the Supreme Court directly challenges Roe, and Roe is going to either fall or be really dramatically scaled back. And I don't think people quite grasp what's about to happen. And, you know, before all of this, you know, the Supreme Court stuff, a Texas six week ban would just be political theater. But now, like shit has gotten real, you guys. Like, if Roe is overturned, laws like Texas's could actually go into effect

rather than what they used to do, which is just be caught up in the court system forever. So, like, everybody's hair should be on fire about this right now. Like, not only are these fuckos in Texas total cruel idiots, but their cruel idiocy has a real shot at governing the way that people form their families and what happens inside people's bodies and it fucking sucks

and that's my rent it sucks i was like can we start writing laws that force men to be a hundred percent a part of the process and have like a financial investment in yeah this because these guys seem to be getting off scot-free and the women obviously carrying the entire burden of these early abortion bans yeah so funny story actually the state of utah just signed a law into effect that would mandate that fathers pay for half of the prenatal care and childbirth costs associated with a woman. They do have a law in the books that if Roe falls, abortion would just automatically be banned in Utah. But the governor there was like, you know, guys should have to pay for half of it. But still, it doesn't really matter if they're paying like half of the money.

No, of course. 100% of the biological cost of childbirth falls on people with female reproductive parts. No, of course. reminding people, I do think one of the dangers in terms of the coverage is that it is going to be covered as a yes or no question. Did the court overturn Roe or did the court uphold Roe? And Supreme Court justices are political creatures, despite what Justice Stephen Breyer says. And reminder, Justice Stephen Breyer says because the court's not political, he's not sure he's going to retire. We have a 50 seat majority. The Washington Post pointed out today, 14 of the 50 members of the Democratic majority in the Senate are from states where the GOP would appoint the replacement or there would be no replacement. Seven of those 14 are over the age of 70. Our majority hangs by an absolute thread. But the

point I was making is only that because the Supreme Court is a political body, they know that they can get away with a lot by restricting Roe, but not overturning Roe. And we should also just be very, I think that's like a really important way we can talk about this in the leading up to these decisions is to say we are not watching to see whether or not they overturn it. We are watching to see whether or not they restrict access to health care for women and pregnant people. Yeah, I totally agree.

And one thing that the Mississippi law would ban abortions after 15 weeks, which is like right at the beginning of the second trimester of pregnancy, vast majority of abortions take place in trimester one. But abortions that take place in trimester two often happen for reasons that are like really um there's there's like tragic reasons there's reasons of of funding there are reasons of like a changing nature of of somebody's like relationship um so like you know sometimes it takes a long time for somebody to save up and so they or they don't know that they're pregnant especially if they're on birth control, or they found out that there's some sort of a birth defect

that would not like that the baby wouldn't survive. And they don't find that out until the second trimester. That's like, it's not possible to detect that until then. So this like ban, I think a lot of lay people who don't know about the process of pregnancy or like what this looks like might think like, oh, that's totally reasonable. You know, they have enough time. No, it's not reasonable. And it should be a private decision between a pregnant person and their doctor, because you don't want to be inside the life of a person who has to make a decision that that's that's that hard. You know, like, why are we why are we inserting ourselves into that? It's just, it's so inhumane to me.

Like, it makes my, like, flames on the side of my face. Like, it makes me so furious. Flames. Flames. From the side of my face. Shout out Madeline Kahn. And banning abortions doesn't stop people from getting abortions. In fact, more people will probably be getting abortions

the more bans are being put in place. So it's just like so it's so scary and frustrating because it's not this is not an end to an abortion. This is an end to legal abortion and safe abortion. Agree. Let's spin it one more time. It has landed on Stephen Breyer. Here's a quick point on Stephen Breyer. Because Stephen Breyer has some kind of book tour coming up, and he gave this speech about how justices shouldn't be political, and justices aren't political, and his kind of pretty obtuse defense of why he thinks that the court is not a political body. Like, okay, you know, it would be great if the court wasn't a political body, like, okay, you know, would be great if the court wasn't a

political body. It would be great if I could eat the amount of fast food I want to eat without facing the consequences I do face. There are lots of things in this world I wish were true that aren't true. And you have to live as you can't just live as the thing you wish were true is true, because then, well, there are problems, problems I won't get into here in this space. But the Washington Post pointed this out today, and I do think it's worth highlighting, which is that Democrats have a 50-seat majority. The 50-seat majority is incredibly tenuous. It is incredibly tenuous, obviously, in the upcoming midterm election, though I think the Senate majority is less in doubt than the House majority. But it's tenuous in another way, which is there are 14 Democratic senators right now from states where if they were to leave office

because of a resignation or because of, you know, God above, those seats would either not be filled or they would be filled by a Republican. Of those 14, seven are 70 plus. Seven members of the Democratic Senate majority come from states where they either would not be replaced or would be replaced by a Republican and are over the age of 70 years old. There is way too much riding on the ongoing beating of septuagenarian hearts. Right now, there's a beat, beat, beat. If that stops, beat, beat, beat. Could stop at any moment, could stop in the night, could stop during the day, could stop on the elliptical, beat, beat, could stop on the elliptical, beat, beat, beat. We have lost our ability to do so much, replace Justice Breyer if he were to retire, pass through reconciliation, Joe Biden's family plan,

Joe Biden's jobs plan, and potentially, if we were to lose the House, our ability to make sure that Republicans don't steal this election. So it is a reminder that this moment is one of incredible urgency, urgency in the courts, urgency on the legislative fronts, and urgency in terms of having the ability to protect what is now a three-person liberal wing of the court. And I find all of the obtuse nonsense coming from those saying we shouldn't tell Stephen Breyer to resign to be pretty ridiculous. You know, the argument seems to be you can't tell the truth because the truth makes Stephen Breyer upset. And I happen to hope that Stephen Breyer is smarter than that. Maybe he's not. But I don't think we should pretend that the truth isn't true just to assuage the ego of one old man with too much power. Yeah, just because he is a great Supreme Court justice and during his tenure has done really important work. That doesn't make him a very good assessor of the political climate. You know what I mean? Like there are two different skill sets. And I totally agree. He should he should definitely consider retiring. But my only thing is, like, if he

retired, would Biden be forced to nominate like Joe Manchin's shithead nephew? Otherwise, Joe Manchin would vote him down. Like how what kind of a what kind of a replacement for Breyer would they be able to get through with this current slate of Democrats? I think that is a tomorrow problem. That is a fucking tomorrow. My my my, you know, Joe Manchin has enough power. I you're totally right. Like that he Joe Manchin may very well have objections, but we can't allow the potential for Joe Manchin has enough power. You're totally right. Joe Manchin may very well have objections, but we can't allow the potential for Joe Manchin objections. We need to put forward the best progressive. I know you don't disagree, but I'm just how I think about it.

It's like, yeah, maybe that's possible. Maybe that fight is the fight to come, but you have to have that fight. And so is there a possibility that Joe Manchin puts up a stink if we nominate a real progressive? Maybe, maybe, but we got to put up that progressive. But that's not an option we have right now because Stephen Breyer likes his job. And I get that. It's a cool job.

And it's the last, probably the last thing you'll, you know, I don't, I don't know what it's like to be an old person looking back on my career and, and wondering what I'll do after I retire. It's not something I'll do for quite some time, hopefully, unless I go out in that blaze of glory at the Cheesecake Factory. I don't know what that would mean. Also, I, I take back my rant. I think we really, really need this Friends reunion.

Like, I think that's all we have to hold on to now. We need it. Thank you so much to Erin and Caroline for joining us. When we come back, I talk to Justin Schweitzer from the Center for American Progress about myths around a so-called labor shortage. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. He is a policy analyst for the Poverty to Prosperity Program at the Center for American Progress. Please welcome Justin Schweitzer. Justin, nice to see you. Great to be here. Thanks a lot, John. So there is a roiling debate

about jobs. I know I said it that way. Based on I think, kind of two pieces of information, one that's anecdotal, and then one that's based on the jobs report. So the anecdotal piece of this is that everybody's been posting signs that say, sorry, this Carl's Jr. is closed because we can't find anybody to work here because of the Democrats. And then, you know, more seriously, there was this disappointing jobs report. People thought that there would be this, you know, return of a bunch of jobs. And it was a disappointing report. It was, you know, order of magnitude less than what was expected. This has led to Republicans pouncing and saying, this is what we told you would happen. You passed unemployment benefits that were too generous,

and now people don't want to work. But you just wrote a piece about this, looking at the ways in which this isn't true. So what is really going on here? What is the argument against this idea of a labor shortage? First of all, the anecdotal evidence is never going on here? What is the argument against this idea of a labor shortage? First of all, the anecdotal evidence is never going to be all encompassing of the total economy. It's just anecdotal. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence also showing that employers who have raised their wages are finding employees. But if we look at the data underlying the entire economy, we just had a jobs report come out showing in April that the economy added about 266,000 jobs, which was disappointing for what people were expecting.

But when you look at the underlying numbers of that, it actually added 366,000 jobs to the leisure and hospitality sector. And then some other sectors did kind of less good. Some actually lost jobs, which is why you come out to that 266,000 on net. The leisure and hospitality sector is where we're seeing a lot of the signs posted for we can't hire anyone. That's restaurants and bars and other places like that. You wouldn't see the faster job growth in the leisure and hospitality sector if unemployment

insurance was holding that back, because that is the sector that pays the lowest wages of basically any other sector. And yet somehow it has the fastest job growth of any of them. If unemployment insurance was keeping people from working, then it is the low wage workers who were earning less before and might actually be earning more on unemployment insurance that wouldn't be coming back if it was because they were just quote unquote lazy. But it's actually the case that we're seeing low wage workers come back. And we're also seeing workers in the states that have higher unemployment insurance benefits, they are having their employment grow a lot faster than the states that offer little in unemployment benefits, which are, of course, and somewhat ironically, states that offer little in unemployment benefits, which are, of course, and somewhat ironically, the Republican-led states. We're also in a situation where vaccinations are still kind of ramping up. The jobs report data actually is reflective of mid-April, and the entire country

did not start opening up vaccinations to all adults 16 and over until April 19th. So a lot of people just did not have full immunity yet. And you can't expect people to go back to work without that. So it does feel like there is a little bit of a contradiction in here, which is, on the one hand, these Republicans are being very punitive. There are proposals now across the country to say, oh, because of this labor shortage, which is a myth, we're going to want to pull back on unemployment insurance to force people back into the labor force. And the evidence is showing that actually,

that's not the big driver here. At the same time, presumably as Democrats, we like the idea that we are putting pressure on wages to drive wages up, that we are creating more power in the hands of individuals who because they have some kind of a backstop, some kind of a benefit, that means they have more negotiating power, they have some kind of a backstop, some kind of a benefit. That means they have more negotiating power. They have more ability to drive up wages. We want to see wages go up. So how do you reconcile that contradiction, if it is a contradiction? We are not seeing a labor shortage across the entire economy.

We are seeing some people in the leisure and hospitality sector and kind of those types of jobs that are the lowest paying jobs, the highest in terms of abuse at the workplace, exploitation, wage theft. We are seeing people reevaluate their choices in that field. And unemployment insurance has given workers the moment to breathe, to say, wait a second, do I want to keep working this job? And so unemployment insurance is not causing this labor shortage. We are seeing people come back to work regardless of what they're receiving on unemployment insurance. People understand that unemployment insurance is always meant to be temporary, and it is

temporary. But unemployment insurance just kind of gives them a chance to not be so desperate to meet their next rent payment, to put food on the table tomorrow night, to not have their electricity shut off, to be able to fill up a tank of gas so they can go interview for a better job. One of the consequences of this, though, is that we have seen a bunch of big companies announce that they are raising their wages. And I don't think there's anything wrong with Democrats saying, great, that is a good thing that is happening because people have had some ability to meet their basic needs during this pandemic, that these companies have to

compete a bit harder to get people to come work for them and to make these jobs a little bit better, make the schedules a little bit more regular, make the pay a little bit higher, make the treatment a little bit better. It just seems like we should embrace that and say, whenever we see one of these signs that says, sorry, we can't find anybody, the answer isn't, oh, make people's benefits less. It's like we need to, that's pressure on these often very profitable companies to raise their wages. Yeah, absolutely. It gets back to the argument of, is unemployment insurance actually causing people to turn down jobs? Or is it just causing them to choose better jobs?

And they are just looking at different fields. People are leaving the restaurant industry, but they're applying to jobs in other industries. And unemployment insurance is giving them the opportunity to take a few weeks to take that extra time to go through the interview process somewhere else. Yeah. You know, they're in pieces looking at this. go through the interview process somewhere else. Yeah, you know, they're, you know, they're in pieces looking at this. And that's, you know, this has been a moment where I've had where I felt like I could, you know, as you said, breathe where I could, like, have a little bit more say in what I do feel a little bit less pressure to take the first job that comes along. And actually, what was what I took away from that is, we have seen over the last year and a half, not just an argument for a more expansive government,

but an argument for actually concrete, like a universal basic income to give people more power. You know, we'll get out of this debate over the labor shortage. And, you know, we should argue against Republicans using myths to get rid of people's benefits. But beyond that, like, what are the kind of proactive steps that we could do to like, build on what we've seen that kind of shows that builds on the success of the rescue plan? It all ties back into who has more power in the labor market. It's do employers have all the power to set bad schedules, give low pay, sometimes actually steal wages from their workers? Or do employees have power to say, no, I'm not going to work for that wage. I'm not going to work unless you make this workplace safe

from COVID, unless you make sure everyone's vaccinated or everyone's wearing a mask or whatever. So it's kind of, it's who gets to decide what is acceptable for each worker. Some of the things that we can do to tilt the scales, just kind of not even towards workers, but just less towards employers, unemployment insurance reform, just kind of not even towards workers, but just less towards employers, unemployment insurance reform, just kind of making it closer to what it has been for the last year, but long-term stable. We're not having to have Congress renew the programs every few months. We have automatic stabilizers in there that just say, when we are at this unemployment rate and this labor force participation rate and these other factors,

the payouts are going to be X amount of dollars. Senators Wyden and Bennett actually have a bill forward right now that would be setting those kind of federal standards. The idea there is that recessions are not predictable, but it is predictable that there will be recessions. And that rather than every time there is some sort of economic crisis, we have a giant, rapid political debate over how much to help people in an emergency that slows that down and prevents people from getting the help they need for a time like we saw at the beginning of the pandemic, that we saw in the debate and delay over the most recent rescue plan that there would be basically built into the law triggers. So if the economy falls below a certain point, if unemployment rises to a certain point, all of a sudden, unemployment benefits would extend there, the system would recognize the fact that sometimes

times are good, sometimes times are bad, and that we need to help people during those down times without it being treated like a one off ad hoc situation every time. Sorry, go on. Yeah, no, no, that's Yeah. And we actually already have programs like that we have food stamps, also called snap, we have Medicaid, they take more people into the program automatically as more people become impoverished. Unemployment insurance is an automatic stabilizer. It's just not effective enough. It doesn't offer enough money. And I mean, what you saw was in December when they just barely got the bill passed in time and then it wasn't signed in time. And then also again in March when they just barely got the bill passed in time to kind of extend these federal unemployment insurance programs. So some of the things that we can put in place are the raise the

wage act to raise the wage to $15 an hour to eliminate tips, minimum wages, it takes away some of the leverage of employers to say this is all we're gonna offer. How do you increase the wages of workers? Yeah, you can increase their leverage with unions or by giving them more resources before they get to the table so that they're less desperate, or you can set a benchmark, set a floor that requires pay to be higher, right? Like you can do it when they're paid. You can create an incentive. There's a number of things.

You probably should do all of them. But like, there's only so many things we can do. Yeah, no. And actually, the next one I was going to say was the Protecting the Right to Organize Act, the PRO Act, which has already been passed by the House, has 47 sponsors in the Senate right now. There's three Democratic senators who still haven't signed on yet to sponsor it. Who are the three? Who are the three? I believe it's...

Sorry to put you on the spot. I believe it's the two Arizona senators and Warner from Virginia. Come on. But I mean, even after that, it still faces a hurdle to pass. We're familiar with the hurdle. Passing that would very proactively help workers organize, it would have helped immensely in the Amazon push that we just saw that I think everyone in the country was aware of. Whether the unions advocating for their members or through other rules, I do think also like predictability of hours is had before the pandemic, I thought predictability of hours was one of the kind of most important issues that doesn't get enough attention. I think

that is still true will only be more true as we kind of look to the next year. Anyway, sorry, go on. Yeah, no, actually, I was I was gonna get around to that, that it's called just in time scheduling. It's basically you don't know if your hours are going to change or if you're going to get assigned a new shift, just out of the blue, you have to always be ready. It's like a doctor when you're on call, except you're always on call. You're kind of always working, but you're only being paid for the time that you're coming in. Then somehow you have to juggle like child care responsibilities, everything else on top of that. We are seeing in this data the fact that women are leaving the workforce, not because they want to leave the workforce, but because of child care for a host of reasons. Like, if you can get assigned a random shift, and you have to quickly

scramble to find child care, you can lose that job if your boss isn't nice. You know, you can lose it really quickly and puts people in a really bad position. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, President Biden actually does have a plan for that. It's the American Families Plan. That's something else we need to get past. Creating better protections for workers in terms of just kind of safety in general. That's a thing that like doesn't get talked about as much because we focus mostly on wages, but we need better enforcement from OSHA at the DOL.

We need them to be going in and actually like making sure employers are keeping things up to code and not exposing their workers to injuries. Yeah, I mean, it really does boil down to, it's like, okay, you want to call it a labor shortage? Well, we're saying it's a wage and benefits shortage. Safety.

Safety, safety, wages, benefits, and treatment shortage. Yeah, yeah. Justin Schweitzer, thank you so much. It was so good to talk to you. And you can read more of what Justin has written about this at talkpoverty.org. Thanks a lot, John. It's been great. Thank you so much to Justin Schweitzer for being here. When we come back, let's end it on High Note. And we're back because we all need it this week. Here it is, the High Note. Hi, Lovett. This is Emma from Washington, D.C. My High Note of the week is that I just got hired as a full-time second grade teacher this year has

been my first year out of college and I have been in a teacher training program as an assistant teacher trying to learn how to teach preschool uh virtually during a pandemic and this week I just found out that the school has decided to hire me back and I'll have my own classroom of second graders next year. Thanks for all that you do. I love it. It's Nicholas from Los Angeles. And I have to say I'm really happy this week because I got chosen to be an RA for my university.

And I'm just really looking forward to being able to make the first year of students coming into university the same as my first year before the pandemic started. Yeah. Have a good one, everyone. Hi, Lovett. This is Leslie calling from New York City. I am an event planner, and my high note is that I am working my first in-person event in a year, since actually March 5th of 2020. It has been a long year for the events industry, and we're coming back. Thank you for all that you have done to keep a smile on all of our faces during this crazy year. Bye-bye. Hey, I love it.

This is Allie in Pagosa Springs, Colorado. My high note is a double high note because after being a drug addict for many years, I just made six years clean. And I also today just graduated from nursing school and I am a nurse. You guys all got me through the past four years of Trump and nursing school together. Thanks for all you do. Hey, Lovett, this is Kevin from Knoxville, and I'm calling because I actually have two high notes this week. The first is this past Saturday I graduated from community college. I'm really excited about what comes next, although there were times I'm going to admit I wasn't entirely sure

if I'd be able to get there, but I did. And now I'm excited for whatever comes next. My second home is just today. I got my second dose of the COVID vaccine. It feels good to know I'll be a lot safer now. I'm really proud of all the work I did back in 2020 to work to Brian and Kamala Harris. And I just wanted to thank you and everyone else at PodCenter and Making Crooked Media for inspiring me to do all I did back in 2020.

Anyway, thanks for the show. And I hope you're doing well. Bye. Thank you so much to everybody who called in. If you want to leave us a message about something that gave you hope, call us at 213-262-4427. Thank you so much to Chelsea Handler,

Ben Rhodes, Justin Schweitzer, Caroline Reston, Aaron Ryan, and everybody who called in. There are 535 days until the 2022 midterm elections. Have a great weekend, everybody. Love It or Leave It is a Crooked Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett,

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