Lovett or Leave It - The Age of Gwynnocence

Episode Date: April 1, 2023

Trump is indicted! Paltrow is free. Ari Shapiro (All Things Considered, The Best Strangers in the World), Langston Kerman (My Momma Told Me), Tawny Newsome, Andrew Ti (Yo, Is This Racist?) and Josie Riesman (Ringmaster: Vince McMahon and the Unmaking of America) join for a barn burner of an ep as we cover a momentous week - from charges to verdicts, and A.I. popes to Ice Age meatballs. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to Love It or Leave It, live or else, after a week where nothing much happened. We have a great show for you. Andrew T. and Tawny Newsome are back to decide what's racist. Ari Shapiro tells me what it's like to travel the world while tall. Michelangelo is here and he's upset Floridians don't like the statue of his boyfriend. I mean David. Josie Reisman wrestles with big questions about wrestling and

politics and Langston Kerman returns for the rant wheel. But first, let's get into it. What a week. We begin tonight with legal news that has rocked the nation. At approximately 5 p.m. local time, we learned that the jury had reached a monumental decision in a case that pits a powerful narcissist against justice itself. Gwyneth Paltrow won her civil case against deranged optometrist Terry Sanderson. He's the narcissist. All right, all right. Here we go.

On Thursday, it finally happened. Atlanta! That's right. A Manhattan jury voted to indict Donald Trump on charges related to hush money he paid to porn actress Stormy Daniels, according to four sources who spoke to the New York Times. Well, folks, it's Mueller time.

I don't know what we're supposed to do. Nothing like this has ever happened. What were we supposed to say? The libs are unprepared. The Krasenstein brothers just crashed into a window like migrating birds. Brian, the balloon drop. Release the balloons. That's a shame. They've been up there too long. They've withered away. The grand jury vote makes Donald Trump both the first former president to be criminally charged and the first future president to be criminally charged as well.

to be criminally charged and the first future president to be criminally charged as well. In case you've forgotten the sordid details, good news, God has cursed me, so I will never forget them. In a nutshell, Michael Cohen, Trump's former lawyer and TV moron, has admitted that the former president used the Trump Organization to help cover up his indiscretion with Stormy Daniels,

paying her $130,000 and cooking the company's books by claiming those payments were actually legal expenses, an effort to hide their true purpose. Can you believe that with all that Trump has done, all the terrible crimes, he might end up going down exactly like Al Capone, dying of syphilis in Florida? Even if Trump is convicted, it would not legally prevent him from being able to run for president. And while I'm not saying I want him to win the presidency from prison, what a great moment of representation it would be for convicted felons who are looking to reenter the workforce and in public service.

Remember, in the wake of this indictment, there may be a lot of AI fakes floating around. The way to tell is, look at the hands. If Trump has normal hands, that's mid-journey. Meanwhile, in other news, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy successfully landed the first joke of his life this morning, and unfortunately, it was this one, about the debt ceiling negotiations. I don't know what more I can do and how easy. I would bring the lunch to the White House.

I would make it soft food if that's what he wants. It doesn't matter. Whatever it takes to me. Said 81-year-old Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, great burn, Kev. I can't do it. Great, great burn, Kev. But on a serious note, are we talking Jell-O? We're talking cottage cheese? I'd love to get in on this. Speaking of the president, a recent poll conducted by Monmouth University showed that 44% of Democrats would prefer if Joe Biden didn't pursue re-election, though most could not name an alternative.

We're Democrats, they said to the pollster. We're in the problem noticing business. Donald Trump held a pre-indictment rally in Waco, Texas, which just so happens to fall on the 30th anniversary of the FBI's 1993 siege in Waco at the Branch Davidian compound. Yet another anniversary he forgets to acknowledge, muttered Melania. Do the accent, it says in parentheses. During the rally, Trump stood with his hand over his heart as speakers blared the song Justice for All, which he recorded with a choir of January 6 prisoners. The choir, none other than the Hang Mike Pentatonix.

I like that one. I like that. In a town hall this week in New Hampshire, Chris Christie came for Trump again. Said the former governor, the only person Trump cares about is him. And if we haven't learned that since election day of 2020, then we are not paying attention. Said your average American,

what? Sorry, I missed what you said. Another train just derailed outside my house. Christie went on to say that he made a strategic error in supporting Trump because he didn't want Hillary to win, but didn't know what kind of president Trump would really be. Of course, that sort of makes it seem like he abandoned Trump after he became president, but he didn't. He didn't just stay with him in 2016. He stayed with him so long, Trump almost killed him with COVID. He didn't tell us. I went into the hospital in the intensive care unit. He didn't call and tell me.

So I think that's inexcusable. You had always suspected that you got it from the president. Is that right? Well, the only reason I suspected it was because he was the only person who I didn't know his testing regimen. Chris Christie has learned now from Mark Meadows book that Trump tested positive, didn't tell him, gave him covid and almost killed him. And in case you're wondering, Chris Christie is still open to supporting Donald Trump in 2024, open to supporting Donald Trump in 2024, which means, which is pretty amazing, that both Mike Pence and Chris Christie, two very senior advisors to Donald Trump, are both still willing to vote for him, even though he tried to kill both of them. That is amazing. That is loyalty. That is

charisma. What must he be like in a room? When asked for comments about Chris Christie's remarks, a spokesman for Trump said, Who's that? It sounds... Yeah. It's tough. It sounds like a decent slam until you realize a napkin was stuck to Rudy Giuliani's glasses and he was just trying to figure out who was talking. Also, great news, everybody. Effective immediately, you can buy a pistol without a permit in North Carolina.

After the Republican-led legislature overrode a veto by Democratic Governor Roy Cooper, the bill aims to get rid of all that pesky red tape and replace it with yellow tape that has words on it. In Idaho, the legislature is on the verge of creating a new crime called abortion trafficking, under which anyone who helps a minor travel to obtain an abortion while aiming to conceal it from their parents or guardians can be charged with a felony. Also, anyone involved can be sued by the family or the father of the fetus. Abortion trafficking is not to be confused with abortion traffic, a situation that arises on surface streets

when Herschel Walker is in town. There will be a last joke about him, but today is not that day. Of course, Idaho doesn't have the authority to ban activities that take place out of state. This bill would only criminalize traveling within Idaho with the intent to help a minor get an abortion. So look out for a big spike in weekend trips where people impulsively decide to get an abortion as soon as they've crossed state lines. It's like when you drive past a cute little East Coast town and you have to just buy a little saltwater taffy before returning to the Christian fundamentalist anti-taffy regime

you call home. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Monday that he'd delay plans to overhaul the judiciary after mass protests ground the country's economy to a halt. Said hundreds of thousands of Israelis in the streets, oh, you want to be an autocrat? You know your cousin's going to be a doctor. We're not mad, we're just disappointed. Are you eating? On Monday, the president of Ghana said substantial elements of a terrifying anti-LGBTQ bill currently in the country's parliament have been modified following a visit from Kamala Harris. The previous policy for Ghanaians who wanted to sleep with people of their own gender was... Do not come.

Do not come. Pope Francis was spotted looking fly as hell in a white puffer jacket this week. Oh, wait. No, he wasn't. This was created in mid-journey, the AI image generator, and fooled God knows how many people

before enough people who knew better could explain. You should be deeply ashamed to believe something as outlandish as Pope wears coat. Said the creator of the viral image in an interview with BuzzFeed, I just thought it was funny to see the Pope in a funny jacket. God damn it, he's hired.

Look, it's gonna to get a lot harder to tell whether or not a photo is real. Where an image comes from is going to be just as important as what the image shows. For example, this is the Pope on a motorcycle. It looks real, but you know that I made it this afternoon. And it's so cool. Now, you all have to look at the next few pictures

and tell me which one you think is real. Let's go to the next one. That is a date between Bernie Sanders and Nancy Pelosi in the 1970s. Next, that's Laura Dern at a WTO protest. Then it's Oprah and Donald Trump splitting a hoagie in the 80s. And that's the one time Abraham Lincoln met Charles Darwin. So which was the real one? None of them are real, you fucking gullible people.

Get with the program. No, Oprah and Donald Trump didn't split a fucking hoagie. We are so fucked. We are so unbelievably fucked. Oh. In the criminal justice system, our viewing pleasure is represented by two separate but equally important groups,

an elderly skier with an angle who from all evidence is mean to his daughter and a Hollywood medicine woman dressed like Hester Prynne and running off bone broth fumes. These are their hilarious stories. Terry Sanderson, the 73-year-old optometrist who accused Gwyneth Paltrow of plowing into him on a ski slope,

took the stand this week. It, of course, at first seemed like it had to be an accident. And then news broke that a second Gwyneth Paltrow had struck the optometrist. Sanderson claimed he had become a self-imposed recluse following his alleged collision with the actress in 2016 due to the physical and mental damage he sustained in the incident. Of course, if your reclusiveness is not self-imposed,

you're not a recluse. You're a prisoner. It's always self-imposed. That's what it fucking means. Lindsay Lohan wasn't a recluse when she was under house arrest. Fuckin' means. Lindsay Lohan wasn't a recluse when she was under house arrest. Anyway, it's a real tragedy,

because if you've ever met a 73-year-old optometrist, you know they're always the life of the party. Unfortunately for Sanderson, his second visit to the stand did a lot to damage his testimony from the first, specifically with the revelation that he has literally traveled the world since that fateful day. Is it Machu Picchu? Costa Rica, yes. Walk the Golden Trail?

Yes. Machu Picchu is in Peru. Yes. Floated down the Amazon? Yes, I guess so. Costa Rica. Did you do a zip line? Same trip, yes.

Did you go to Europe? Visit Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, France, Belgium? With my daughter, Jenny, yes. Bottom half, James, please. Did you go to the Netherlands three times? I don't remember. He did a zipline. This self-imposed recluse did a zip line.

What a fucking Canary Islands. Jesus Christ. This lawyer makes Paltrow look so good, you'd think he was made of stem cells and ozempic. It's easy. It's easy to make fun. But Terry Sanderson has already crossed off everything on my bucket list.

Peru, the Canary Islands, suing Gwyneth Paltrow, Costa Rica. This guy has a way more fulfilling life than any of us. Should we all try to get mauleding Gwyneth Paltrow, Costa Rica. This guy has a way more fulfilling life than any of us. Should we all try to get mauled by Gwyneth Paltrow? Then, as if that wasn't enough, Gwyneth's lawyer brought out the many Facebook photos Sanderson posted, cataloging what I can only describe as a phantasmagoria of incredible travel adventures. This is you and your girlfriend. Is that southern Utah hiking? I don't remember where.

Looks like you have one of those cool backpacks with water on. Is that true? Yes, that's true. It is incredible. This is a senior citizen claiming Gwyneth Paltrow destroyed his life. This is the man's life in ruins.

What kind of Met Gala cocaine-fueled bungee-jumping non-stop fuckfest must he have been living before? This is like when the guy you've gone on three dates with says he's super busy with work and then immediately posts a photo from a hot air balloon festival. Did you think we weren't gonna fucking see it?

At one point, Paltrow's lawyer and Sanderson get into an argument about whether or not he went kayaking at any point after his alleged run-in with Gwyneth. Spoiler alert, he did. Is this you kayaking after the collision? Now this is, we're seven months after the collision. Absolutely not. Is that a kayak above you?

I don't know what it is. Sir, I asked you about this in your deposition. Is this you kayaking? No,'t know what it is. Sir, I asked you about this in your deposition. Is this you kayaking? No, absolutely not. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Again, this man claimed to be a recluse. If I ever bump into Gwyneth Paltrow on a ski slope,

I'm going to win a settlement so fast, the best lawyers in the world can't take up a single photo of me doing anything outdoors. And, if Sanderson wasn't toast then, when asked why he was bringing his case against Paltrow, Sanderson went wide with it and tried to connect this case. Well, why don't you see what he tried to connect this case to? What is going on here? This is obviously an issue that someone needs to be accountable for.

And if they're never accountable, what are they going to do? They're going to do it again. Now we have the molesting of young children on an island. That's right. That's right. He put Gwyneth Paltrow on a flight from Park City to Epstein's fucking island. And then just as we finished scrambling to add the Trump indictment jokes, the verdict was in. Was Gwyneth Paltrow at fault? No. Was Gwyneth Paltrow's fault a cause of Terry Sanderson's harm? There's just no response there. Was Terry Sanderson at fault? Yes. Was Terry Sanderson's fault a cause Gwyneth Paltrow's, did Terry Sanderson's fault cause Gwyneth Paltrow's harm? Yes. Comparative fault. What percent of the fault do you assign to Terry Sanderson? 100 percent.

you assign to Terry Sanderson? 100%. Damages. What amount fairly compensates Gwyneth Paltrow for economic damages? $1. She did it. Signed March 30th,

2023. Gwyneth wins, everybody. Thank you. And she's Gwyneth's. I want you to know something that happened. I saw the wheels turning in real time. Sarah Lazarus, great writer at Crooked Media, she immediately, right as the verdict came in,

she was like, I'd wear a shirt that said Gwyneth innocent. Then she kind of sat silently for two minutes, and she just said, Gwyneth-sent. It was amazing. It was amazing. After the verdict was read, Gwyneth Palt. It was amazing. It was amazing. After the verdict was read, Gwyneth Paltrow stood up and walked out of the courtroom. But this is real. She stopped at Sanderson's table and whispered in his ear, I wish you well.

That's real. She really did that. And then off she went, never to see him again. And then, as Sanderson sat there defeated, a hot mic caught Gwyneth in the bathroom, saying this. Kill them all. Of course.

Twist. Twist. What was that movie with Richard Gere and Ed Norton? Primal Fear. Primal Fear. Could be. Wouldn't that be something? And in other news,

do you understand that I watched the whole thing? The whole goddamn trial? Every minute? I watched all of it. Do you know that? Do people understand that? That I watched all of it? I skipped some of the doctors,

because Jesus Christ, but I really watched almost everything. Okay. And in other news this week, the FDA approved Narcan, the emergency treatment for opioid overdoses, to be sold over the counter without a prescription. You know what that means. Look under your seats, everybody. The principal of a Florida charter school has resigned after parents complained that their kids were shown pictures of art during an art history class,

specifically Michelangelo's David, which the parents called pornographic. To be fair, the statue was labeled Italian twink whips it out for horny museum goers, full scene HD. Researchers say that astronauts on future lunar missions may be able to extract huge quantities of water from tiny glass beads on the moon's surface. Drinkable water on the moon? That's amazing, said the residents of East Palestine, Ohio. Scientists in Australia have created a protein from woolly mammoth DNA, using it to produce a small woolly mammoth meatball. According to one of the

scientists who worked on the project, that's real, the mammoth meatball isn't considered safe to eat, since we don't know how our immune system will react to the extinct protein. I am unmarried. I have no children. I have trained for this all my life. This is my moon landing.

Give me the meatball. Scientists say this is the only one of the meatballs they've been able to create and scientists hope to study the tiny morsel of meat to learn how to produce it on a massive scale with the potential to solve global hunger. This just in, Homer Simpson has eaten the meatball. A group of 1,000 experts led by an organization funded by AI skeptic Elon Musk has released an open letter calling for a pause of at least six months in the release of ever more powerful AI technology, citing unknown risks these advances may pose to society.

According to the letter, it's possible AI will put the Pope in jackets, which we can hardly conceive of. I'm worried this technology might lead to harm, said a distracted Musk as his self-driving Tesla cruised down a grocery store dairy aisle. And finally, marine biologists have reported that a giant blob of seaweed in the Atlantic Ocean, larger than the United States, is drifting towards Florida. Oh, God, look at that. It's disgusting, said the sea blob upon reaching Florida. When we come back, a real renaissance man.

And we're back. There are only three certainties in life. Death taxes, don't forget to file. And clicking on the dumbest news story you've ever seen in your fucking life, only to find out it took place in Florida. This week, the principal of a charter school in Tallahassee was forced to resign because students in an art history class were shown pictures of Michelangelo's famously naked David statue, and some loser parents shat their pants about it.

Here to weigh in, please welcome, huge get, Italian Renaissance sculptor, painter, architect, and poet, it's Michelangelo. It's-a me, Michelangelo. All right. Woo-hoo! Hi, Michelangelo. Wow, just hearing your voice,

it's like stepping into history. The Renaissance is alive before our very eyes. Oh, it's my pleasure, John. I'm taking a break from painting the hunky boys on some rich asshole's ceiling to come here. Isn't that nice? So great of you to come here when I know you have so much on your plate. Sculptor, painter, architect, and poet.

Michelangelo, come on, how do you get it all done? I made the, uh, como se dice, uh, a multi-hyphenate. Uh, John Hustler culture, yes. Hashtag rise and grind. Woo-hoo! Sounds a little bit toxic. I hope you set aside some time for self-care, at least. Oh, of course.

I take a bath every three months. Well, I guess that sounds about right for the 16th century. Doesn't smell right, though. Anyway, Michael... Watch your mouth. Okay, apologies. You're right. Sorry.

Michael Angelo, I'm sure you've heard about this Florida school's reaction to your work. At least one parent called your iconic David statue pornographic. Your thoughts? He's so ridiculous, John. This David, he's a shepherd boy. He has no money. That was Jamaican. He has no money for pants.

Okay. And besides, I make his pee-pee so small. What's the big deal? So much a silly fuss about a little pee-pee, John. It's such a little pee-pee, and that's a great point. But also, it's a timeless work of art. It makes no sense to get mad about kids seeing pictures of art when they're learning about art, right, Michelangelo?

See, if my statue was supposed to make a horny... You have no question. John, it would be a huge hunger like a horse. I've made many such porno statues on a commission for wealthiest nipple babies. I spent the six

years carving the perfect nude twink out of marble, and these Medici dumbasses, they jerk off to it like five seconds, and then they're like, okay, when will you have a next sexy marble twink? Just to shoot me, John.

Just to shoot me. But it's also how you pay the bills. I'm sorry, I just sort of need a second here. I did not know you carved pornographic statues. This is like finding out Shakespeare wrote fanfic. And he did. Mostly on the theme of, what if catching the plague made the people horny instead of dead?

But yes, the David, he is not the one of the masturbation marbles. No, no, no. That can't be what they're called. He is the Bible's shepherd boy with the tiny little pee-pee. These are parents. If they find him so sexy, it says more about them, no? Absolutely.

But the thing is, Michelangelo, this is part of a much larger dark trend. Right-wing creeps are attacking public education, threatening gay teachers and queer kids to inflict their regressive worldview on everybody else. Oh, but I am not a gay. Well, okay, I wasn't saying you were, but also, are you sure about that? Oh, what's a gay about painting hundreds of ripped, beautiful, naked men?

I paint, I sculpt the women's too. Is it not difficult? You make a big, a strong man like a usual, big bulging muscles, and then you add the tits. Just two juicy cantaloupes right on top, bingo, bongo, easy peasy. You just add the tits. That's all you do, just add the tits. My bad.

I can tell you've definitely looked at women. You've really studied and admired them. Oh, I have seen them around, yes. Okay, so I guess my question is, how does it feel to see your work turned into a weapon in this culture war? Conservative leaders are banning books and creating an environment where their supporters harass teachers and try to censor important

works of art. You must be pissed. Oh, it's no good, John. These are virgin parents. They want the child to be a stupid doll. In Florence, if you are a child, who knows best, they have pelt you with balls of mozzarella. Besides, this is a Ron DeSantis. He is not a real Italiano.

Can you picture him eating a slice of prosciutto in the front of the fridge with a no shirt on? Can you, John? I really of prosciutto in the front of the fridge with a no shirt on? Can you, John? I really can't. You can't. Here is what I think of this Ron DeSantis. Ha! If that's the metric, it turns out I'm Italian.

So that's exciting. Is there anything else you'd like to say to these Florida parents? Yes. I will just say this. Sucker my dick, you loser freaks. I sculpted the David before I turned 30. At least that's according to my Wikipedia.

And what have you swamp hicks sculpted? Nothing. You make a nothing art. Or beauty. Or love. Shut the fuck up. And if I ever see you in Italia, I will rip the gelato from your fascist hands. What the barbarians didn't do,

the Floridians will do for them. I want you to know, that's a reference for no one. Also, you don't even know about the Barbarinis. That's after your time. You suck at my dick too, you loser freak. Okay. Well, didn't you also write a bunch of homoerotic sonnets

To a 23-year-old Roman guy about how you wanted to be his clothes So you could wrap around his body? That's pretty gay It's not so interesting to me to discuss Me sexuality in public, John Okay, Harry Styles It's not so simple On the one hand end you have a man with their perfect

jacked bodies and bigger hands and sexy voices who I you think about all the time on the other hand women who are exactly the same but with the big bazongas John

Italian renaissance sculpture Michelangelo, everyone. Thank you, John. See you at ACPA later. Woo-hoo! Okay. Langston Kerman, everybody. Check out his podcast, My Mama Told Me. Out of the tits.

When we come back, let's wrestle. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back! As someone who has actual interest in music, I couldn't be more excited to welcome our next guest to the ring, writer, wrestling expert, and author of the new book, Ringmaster, Vince

McMahon and the Unmaking of America. Please welcome Abraham Josephine Reisman. Hi. Y'all having a good time tonight? Don't warm up my crowd. Sorry, I was just asking if there... Okay, okay. I'll butter them up, thank you very much. Okay. You just assume they're ready.

You assume they're here waiting to be entertained. You're the funny one, I get it. In your book, you describe the Republican Party's approach to reality as neo-kayfabe. What do you mean by that, and did I say it right? You said it so right, yes. Neo-kayfabe is a word I invented. Yes. I know, I decided that I was going to try that. So kayfabe is not a word I invented. Yes. I know. I decided that I was going to try that.

So kayfabe is not a word I invented. Kayfabe, which is spelled K-A-Y-F-A-B-E, was a term of unclear linguistic origin that was used for about a century very much as like a kind of an industry omerta within professional wrestling. Kayfabe was the code by which you said to the audience hey everything you're seeing here is real we really hate each other and that's why

we're fighting this is really a sporting competition no one knows how it's going to end and that guy's really iranian and in real life you know the guy's italian the two guys who are fighting are drinking buddies and of course it was a predetermined act. So kayfabe used to refer to like, you got to obey kayfabe, you know, don't let the audience find out who you really are. What we have now is this weird system that's much more mind bending, where it used to be that there was just this big flat lie. It was what you're seeing in the ring is real. And a lot of people actually who were fans knew that it wasn't real, but you liked being able to participate in this pretty easy lie. You go, you cheer for the good guy, you boo against the bad guy. Eventually, Vince McMahon, who is the executive chairman of World Wrestling Entertainment or WWE, when he took over his

father's company, which was then called the World Wrestling Federation, or WWF, he killed kayfabe, to put it bluntly. He wanted to get deregulated. This was his entry into politics, and now Vince is actually a pretty major political operative in the Republican Party. But his entree into that was he wanted to get deregulated, and part of that was he had to tell legislators

and tell lawyers that wrestling was fake which was something that would have been unthinkable to the previous generation and you end up with this weird hybrid system ultimately where you're not telling the audience hey everything here is real believe everything you're actually saying hey everything here is fake don't worry it's all fake but hey guess what i heard that the two guys who are fighting tonight, they really hate each other. And one of them might hurt the other guy. You better tune in because I don't know. It could be a real thing that you see here tonight.

And that's the tout. That or you're watching and you're going like, oh, you're watching the match? Oh, no, no, no. I'm watching the match and decoding the match because I can know like, you know, the storylines behind the scenes of all these people. Anyway, you end up in politics with this system that looks a lot like that, where you have this mix of lies, truth and everything in between. And you deliver it with the same level of sincerity while also telling the audience, don't believe anything you hear, except for the stuff you want to believe. You know, and it becomes this informational chaos

and it's really easy to manipulate people when you do that. Yeah, so I think it's a great analogy and I want to unpack it a little bit. Thank you. And you're welcome. Oh. I don't know why we're applauding,

but thank you, yes, thank you. So there's wrestling and it's in some sense a kind of play. Yes. But it's meant to look real and it's not as sensational, right? They're in costume and it's a dance and there's drama.

I didn't enjoy wrestling but it was on before American Gladiators and they were hot as hell. And so I would always catch a little bit of wrestling before Turbo and his friends showed up. Let's hear it for American Gladiators folks. Nothing? Sculpted bodies on display. There we go.

But when I was a kid, this is in the vince mcmahon era you had these larger than life figures that ultimate warrior and the undertaker and right and and it became more and more of a just a true like melodrama totally and the plausible deniability that all this was real started to fade away right right even though maybe before members of the audience knew, I don't think this is real, but could be. Yeah. The audience becomes participants in the lie fully.

They pretend it's real. The people on stage pretend it's real. The performers know, the audience knows, the audience knows, the performers know, but nobody ever calls that out. Mutually agreed upon lie. And in sort of your analogy, that's sort of what's become of the Republican Party. No, no, I think it's become the next stage.

We had for a long time the big, flat, easy lie of like democracy works. Right. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But you had like an apartheid system in this country where a huge portion couldn't even vote. And we're talking about like, oh, we have democracy. But that can be a useful lie like that can be inspiring. Right. Everybody buys into the lie. But that can be a useful lie. Like, that can be inspiring, right? Everybody buys into the lie. And then maybe you advance society forward.

What we have now is something much more cynical. Much more cynical. Where you're telling a political crowd, much as a wrestling audience might be told, you say, hey, Donald Trump, as a Republican operative, you can, like, feed quotes and manipulate the public by saying, hey, don't believe anything he says. Don't believe anything he says except for the stuff you want to believe, for the stuff that we want you to believe. We'll slip in these things where you're going to go, wait, that was real.

That's the essence of QAnon is you go, okay, well, I know Donald Trump is usually just lying, but he said that weird sentence that time. And that sentence was actually a clue about stuff that he's really doing and I can see behind the scenes. And that's when you kind of lose your mind. So we've gone from an overall kayfabe system to a Republican dominated neo kayfabe system. A Vince McMahon style, everyone knows this is bullshit except the parts you want. Right, basically. So, first of all, I don't know if there's an analogy

in the wrestling world, but what's the most effective thing to do to break the spell of a drama like this? Right, I mean, I wish I had an easy answer. If I did, I would be running for office right now because I think that that would be the solution to a lot of the problems we're in.

The best thing I have to offer is radical honesty. I wrote this book, Ringmaster, with the intention of taking a topic that is usually analyzed either through the lens of kayfabe by the wrestling journalism world or with this sort of disdain and lack of curiosity by the mainstream. What I tried to do, and I don't know if this will actually fix wrestling or anything, is just say, well, the best way to combat this blizzard of lies

is to just as hard as I can hold on to documentation, credible interviews, and just gut instinct about what's real as opposed to just trying to fit things to the master narrative that already exists. And, oh, thank you. So I tried really hard on that, but I feel like in politics, it's not the easiest strategy, but this is something you think about with the Democrats all the time, where you want them to just say what they believe, because there's all of this sort of massaging of going like, well, if we phrase it this way, then people won't be as on board with it. And you just want someone to say, like, you know, for example, trans kids deserve to be protected in this country. deserve to be protected in this country you know like if you just say something like that openly all of a sudden you're like i mean what you see that happen with like state legislators and they

go viral but the people at the top are too worried about their own neo-kafe because the republicans are the worst offenders here but the democrats also you have plenty of times where they're just saying one thing meaning another and then having a whole wide range of things in between the truth and the fiction that they're feeding into the media and it just becomes this confusing blizzard i keep saying blizzard don't i am i have i said blizzard more than one time now you have now i have okay i guess now i have well it's interesting the thing that i i think finding out how to untangle all this is obviously very difficult if it was a problem we knew how to solve we would solve it but where i start from is i actually think as an analogy where it's really useful is it helps put an analogy to help understand

why walking into a trump rally and being like none of this is real isn't working it doesn't work and it does tie it into what makes this a kind of fascistic movement in the sense that it is both naive and cynical at the same time that it is naive and that they believe this man is their avatar. It is cynical in that they know when he is lying and they don't care because they're in on the joke. A hundred percent. And it gives you, I think, a place to not go, where that spell can't be broken by just using the

truth. And it does argue for what we need in a larger sense is our own story. When we believe, one that isn't rooted in lie. We need a bigger story. Basically, we need someone with the power to go into that ring with a story as compelling as the one they offer. Absolutely. And the thing is,

kayfabe is sort of a fact of life. In fact, kayfabe is kind of good when it's chosen well. Kayfabe is a tool. It doesn't have a moral valence in and of itself. Religion is a kind of kayfabe. Hey, get the fuck out of here. I'm sorry. No, but the point is like, kayfabe is not just saying fiction. Kayfabe is not a synonym for fiction. It's a mix

of fact and fiction, especially neo-kayfabe, that's existing in this weird tension that can be very compelling. And yeah, I do agree with you. I think the real problem that we can at least try to mitigate, I don't have the proactive solution, is just when you have somebody like Vince McMahon or Donald Trump who have the uncanny ability to go up and just in public say, hey, I'm a schmuck and I'm a liar. And then when you say, hey, that guy's a schmuck and a liar. The way society is currently structured, or maybe it's our brains, we just go, okay, but he already said he was. And then you don't do anything. And I don't know why the human brain does that.

I don't know why our socialization does that. But it's this total neutralizing factor. If you lack shame and if you lack a revulsion to lying, you can just say I'm terrible and I'm a liar and then just get away with it. I wish that I knew the best silver bullet for that, but I know it's not a fact check. I know it's not accusing someone of being a hypocrite or a bad person because if they've already owned up to that, which virtually every Republican politician has on some level, just by endorsing Trump on some level, you end

up with this world where like, what are you going to come to a Republican and say, hey, you know, you're a transphobe or you're a misogynist. It's like, that's going to do anything to them. Yeah. I think for a long time, oh, politics, it's become like wrestling is a pejorative. And I do actually agree it is for the ways that you're describing. But then I think it's worth taking a moment to say, OK, let's say it is. It's beautiful because wrestling can be beautiful. Yeah. Yes. Sure. moment and say okay let's say it is it's beautiful because wrestling can be beautiful yeah yes sure when the stakes are lower uh but the true but no but i do find it to be a really helpful analogy you kind of let the discomfort of what politics have become uh you let that wash over you and then when that's done you can start thinking all right like what's the story we're telling i agree

i think the more you understand pro wrestling, for better or worse, these are the sets of archetypes that work now. And I wish I saw more politicians on the left, on the progressive left, who are willing to just get up and say, you'll be like a Eugene Debs kayfabe and just go, let's believe in the human spirit. Let's have that be our kayfabe,

that we think people are actually fundamentally good, because you don't really have either party saying that right now. I just don't see a lot of hope. I think what's interesting there is you can make an argument that we were so critical of Joe Biden in the campaign because he had a kayfabe, and his was, I believe that we can bring this country together, that we can bring people together from both sides, that America is fundamentally good, that even Republicans are fundamentally good, and I can work with them and talk to them, and Mitch McConnell is my friend, and I can stand on a bridge and get the funding, and I can call this guy and I can do that guy, and we can go back to that kind of thing. And what's interesting about that is that is a story that isn't a lie. It's obviously not true, but you can take the parts that you believe yeah and latch on to them i know uh so anyway i think it's instructive too about

the kinds of candidates that have done well on the democratic side barack obama joe biden bernie sanders of being the three big most single examples that each tell their version of a story that you can decide is as true as you want it to be. It's a dangerous road. It's a dangerous road. But that's, I think, the real art of politics these days is figuring out how to pepper in truth and lies in a way that's going to compel people. And the more truth you have, the better, I think.

I'm going to dial. Mine was 30% less cynical than yours. But I'm with you. But I'm with you. No, I mean, I don't know. I wish I had the exact political program to propose for everybody. But we need to stop doing the tactics we've been doing because they're overall, I think, we're on a downward trend. So not to be grim, I just I'm trans and I see what's happening with the anti-trans panic right now.

And it just scares the crap out of me. So I apologize for not being as cheery and uplifting as maybe I would have been at some other period. We have to figure out our pile driver, you know? I know. Sorry, I know. This is supposed to be a funny podcast. I'll try and spice it up. I apologize.

Hey, we indicted Trump today. See that? Hey, we indicted Trump! Isn't that great? Well, I didn't do it. I didn't do anything. Hey, hey, yes you did. Yes you did. You participated in do anything. I shouldn't take any credit. Hey, hey, yes, you did. Did I? Yes, you did. You participated in the process. I paid my taxes. You paid your taxes.

I did pay my taxes. Have you ever been to New York? I lived there for 12 years. Do you ever pay sales tax on anything? Sure. There you go. There we go. Thank you.

Thank you. Now it's time for a game we're calling Wrestling with America. I'm going to ask you a question, and you will let us know who did it. A professional wrestler or an American politician? I also threw in a couple of other questions, because just like Donald Trump, I don't play by the rules. I will be president one day, and I have thrown a ketchup-covered plate at the wall at Crooked.

I'm just kidding. I don't want to be president. I'll stay out of that. All right, Josie, you ready to play? As ready as I'm going to be. Pro wrestler or American politician? Who threw a Gucci shoe after tearing up $3,000 worth of $100 bills, a wrestler or an American politician?

Oh, well, obviously a wrestler. Who do you think it was? I think it was probably the nature boy, Ric Flair. You got it. God bless you. Who successfully dodged two brown Oxfords thrown during a press conference? Two. Well, I assume it was George Bush, right?

You got it. Yeah, I assume it was George Bush. You got it. Yeah, right. Yeah. Drawing a blank on the name, but that's a wrestler. Yeah. It was WWE's Katrina, who also wrestled under the name Maxine. That's right. Who had to publicly deny being a witch after admitting to visiting a bloodstained satanic temple?

That'd be a politician. It was. No, I can't remember. Don't give me the ding yet. I didn't get it right. You did. No, that's all you have to do. Oh, that was all I had to do.

Okay, great. Well, I guess I brought that up myself. I'm the host, Malcolm. Thank you. Republican candidate Christine O'Donnell in 2010. Right, right. Christine O'Donnell. She said in a Bill Maher clip from 1989,

one of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar and I didn't know it. I mean, there's a little blood there and stuff like that. We went to a movie and then had a midnight picnic

on a satanic altar. Wasn't she the one who then had to do the ad that just begins with her looking at the screen? She says, I'm not a witch. Yeah.

That was a great moment. By the way, that's a great example of a reversal. Yeah. Nobody thought she was a witch. No, but she should have just leaned in and said, I am a witch. That would have been great.

Yeah. Yes. Who once rigged $100 bills to fall from the ceiling onto a screaming crowd, at least some of which were real? Was it a wrestler or a politician? Wasn't that Vince McMahon? It's a trick question. It was both. It was Donald Trump, and it was also this during a 2007 episode of Monday Night Raw.

Look up at the ceiling, Vince. That's not real money, folks. Look at that. Donald Trump, you embarrass me like this. I assumed Vince did it at some other point. I haven't seen every single episode. Jesus, there's a lot of programming, so apologies.

Did you ever see American Gladiator? There you go. Once After Wrestling. You would watch it. Was wrestling like 11 and American Gladiator was at noon? Is that right? Yeah, it was Soul Train Wrestling and Gladiator. Oh, nice.

Cool. That's when I knew I was gay, by the way. American Gladiator. Soul Train? Oh, no. American Gladiator. I remember that Soul Train was on, but I think this was Sundays, and I way. American Gladiator. That was it. Soul Train? No, American Gladiator. No, because I remember that Soul Train was on, but I think this was Sundays, and I think I would only get home from Hebrew school after. So I would get home from Hebrew school

and then immediately go to the television to be ready for American Gladiator to start it. And that was my life. Baruch Hashem. Yeah. If someone were to proudly reveal they ordered 100 cans of Campbell's Chunky Soup, would it be a WWE wrestler or an American politician?

Oh, man. American politician, I think. Yeah, it was Ted Cruz. That's right. Right. Yeah. Who is almost responsible for the ritual sacrifice of an innocent woman? I mean, a lot of people, right?

That's a good point. I guess I'm going to say The Undertaker. You got it. It was The Undertaker. It was a fictional storylining involving Stephanie McMahon. Oh, yeah. Read my book. It ends with that, basically, that whole storyline.

It's very interesting. Which one of these is not an honestly phenomenal pro-wrestling style nickname Donald Trump gave a rival or nemesis? A, Puppet Jones. B, Disaster from Alaska. C, Fat Jerry. Or D, Broccoli Boy? Wow. I think Disaster from Alaska didn't happen, did it?

That did happen. It was Lisa Murkowski. It was actually Broccoli Boy that was the one we made up. Puppet Jones was Doug Jones. Really? That was the one where I was like, I'm sure somebody said Broccoli Boy, right? And he called Jerry Nadler Fat Jerry. Fat Jerry.

That's really... That's a first idea. That's a first idea. Yeah, you run that one out of the room. Who pretended to have sex with a mannequin in a coffin? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that would be Hunter Hearst Helmsley, Paul Levesque.

Triple H? Triple H! Yeah, sorry. He has a lot of names. He has a lot of names. That was all the same person. I was not guessing over and over again. Which of these is a wrestler's stage name

and not the moniker of a politician? Oh. Carlos Danger, Pierre Delecto, Dusty Rhodes, or Lou Alcindor? Sorry, I'm guessing which one is a wrestler, right? Yes, which one is a wrestler?

Yeah, Dusty Rhodes. Dusty Rhodes is a wrestler. Carlos Danger was Anthony Weiner's I Remember name. Pierre Delecto was Mitt Romney's hilarious alter ego. I remember that as well. And Lou Alcindor was Eric Holder's email moniker. That's right. Which is also Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's birth name.

That's what I was doing. Oh. I was doing the whoo. No, I don't. Swish. I don't know that. There you go. So that's cool.

I didn't know you were doing a sports thing. I don't know. I wrote a book, but I don't actually know anything about sports. I came to wrestling from musical theater, not from football and wrestling. Nice. But that's right. That makes sense. No, it does.

I'm telling you, those are like the tracks. And you talk to all the queer and trans wrestling fans, of which there are many, and many of them will tell you, yeah, I was really, I thought that the musical theater elements of that were the most exciting thing. You love the elocution. And that's when somebody touches a wire. Yeah, exactly. And finally, which of these is not a real-life Donald Trump pro-wrestling moment?

A, Donald Trump clotheslines Vince McMahon and shaves McMahon's head in the ring. B, Donald Trump appears on screen alongside the boogeyman a wrestler who ate worms C Donald Trump takes a stone-cold stunner from stone-cold Steve Austin or D Donald Trump is sealed in a coffin and buried

in a grave by the Undertaker I wish that last one had happened that would have been really interesting but it didn't happen it didn't happen no no no buried alive match

Wow maybe they should settle the trial that way whoever can get somebody into the coffin close it and No, no. Buried Alive match. Wow. Maybe they should settle the trial that way. Whoever can get somebody into the coffin, close it, and bury it. Nothing would bring me greater joy than for this one case going back to, let's see if he fucking floats. Bless you, John.

Thank you. Abraham Josephine Reisman. Yes. What's the book called? It's called Ringmaster, Vince McMahon, and the Unmaking of America. It's with Atria Books. You can go to abrahamreisman.com or ringmasterthebook.com. When we come back, Ari Shapiro is here.

And we're back. The staff of Love to Relieve It is nothing but hardworking, intrepid people diligently crafting the perfect segments using humor and insight to shed light on important issues affecting our nation. So here for a segment they pitch called Tall Things Considered, it's author and tall person and co-host of NPR's All Things Considered, Ari Shapiro. Ari Shapiro, my friend.

I remember when you were just a lowly White House speechwriter. Sure, sure you do. We would hang out on my patio in Washington, D.C. I've never loved someone who I always felt so inferior in the presence of than you when we were back in that patio, because my life was a shambles. You know what I love about you is that you carry your untidiness into your work life.

Some of us have such different work home existence. You know, we cover when we're at work, but not you. You just scatter things everywhere, all over the floor. The John Lovett I've known and loved for years. I would barely be able to know where I was supposed to be or get there. My clothes are wrinkled to this day you look great i'd eat a popeyes sandwich and race over to say hello to my friend ari and he'd have a bottle in his backyard with a stem of a tree inside of it

and a pear growing inside the bottle because a year before he had decided to make some kind of pear cordial. Yeah, I grow pears in bottles. It's true. You know, I kind of fucking planning that takes. I quote you in my book saying something that I've remembered for many, many years. Oh, yeah. What was it? Well, you were sitting on my back patio and you did an impersonation of me in which you said, oh, that chair. Funny story about that chair. Martha Stewart and I carved that chair out of a larger chair. True friendship. True friendship.

His life was always together. For the record, I've never met Martha Stewart. Have I? Somebody said this. Wait, I'm sorry. He has. You know that or you just... I went to college with him.

We met Martha Stewart. We met Martha Stewart. You met Martha Stewart? There was an acapella group. I was in an acapella group with you, and we met Martha Stewart. Well, it clearly wasn't a very memorable meeting. Who is that that was in an acapella group with me that's sitting out there?

Maya Sykes. Maya Sykes in the house. This is what I'm talking about. Who said I was in an acapella group with me that's sitting out there? Maya Sykes. Maya Sykes in the house. This is what I'm talking about. He has met Martha Stewart. It left no impression. And I don't even remember it. Hi, Maya. Hi, John.

You're here to promote your new book, but you're also, it must be said, pretty tall. Can I drop the title? The Best Strangers in the World? The Best Strangers in the World. The Best Strangers in the World. Please brace yourself as I ask you both in this segment that once we heard it, we had to do it.

Tall Things Considered. The logo alone is worthy of applause. I wish the podcast listeners could see this beautiful adaptation of the All Things Considered logo to just add a T and hang it around the neck of a giraffe. Your book, The Best Strangers in the World, is about the best strangers in the world that you've met.

Not the other ones. Who are the worst strangers you've met? What were they doing? And was it on an airplane? You know, I did a comedy cabaret recently at the Kennedy Center. No big deal. And I sang this old Noel Coward song called Why Do the Wrong People Travel?

And I introduced it by saying my new book is called The Best Strangers in the World and I'm no expert on the metaverse but I believe that advanced particle physics states that the existence of the best strangers must therefore imply the existence of other strangers

and this is a song about them. And then I sang the Noel Coward tune, Why Do the Wrong People Travel? strangers must therefore imply the existence of other strangers. And this is a song about them. And then I sang that old coward tune. Why do the wrong people travel? My anecdotes are all about how I like had to go to the bathroom at a Taco Bell. He's singing no coward at the Kennedy Center. So frustrating. You're six foot three.

I am. Yeah. Should people be allowed to recline their seats on airplanes? I take the aisle seat for that reason, because I am not going to tap somebody on the shoulder or the back. Yes, they should be able to, but airplanes should not make the seats so close together.

It's not the fault of the recliner. It's the fault of the airplane maker. Blame the system, not the individual who's trapped within the system. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. That is the correct moral answer. I don't get the ding that Abraham Josephine Reisman got for the correct moral

answer. There we go. Thank you. You write about taking the time to listen to others and find the things we have in common. Our common humanity over things that divide us. Now, how do you do that if you're talking to a Republican legislature who just banned gender-affirming care

and you're a trans person who has to go to the bathroom? I'm going to give you, actually, a real answer to that question, if you don't mind an anecdote. That's why you're here. Okay, so I see my role as not to influence but to illuminate. And so I, after Trump said

he was going to eliminate HIV in America by the year whatever, went to the place in the United States that has the highest rates of HIV infection, Mississippi. And it tends to be among black men who have sex with men, and the reason rates are high there has to do with a lot of things. Access to health care, stigma, and on and on and on. So I get to Mississippi, and I download an app called Jacked, where black men who have sex with men tend to meet up with each other. I create get to Mississippi, and I download an app called Jacked, where black men

who have sex with men tend to meet up with each other. I create a profile that says, I am a journalist looking to talk with people. And so I got some great interviews out of it. And then I sat down with a state lawmaker who had sponsored a bill that allowed doctors in Mississippi to deny care based on moral objections. And my goal in talking with that state legislator, and it doesn't take any great leap to imagine how I felt about that law, but I wasn't trying to tell him why the law was wrong, why he shouldn't have pushed it. I wasn't trying to nail him against the wall. I was truly trying to figure out where he came from. And in that conversation, there was a moment where he said to me, well, now look, if there were like a daily pill you could take to prevent HIV infection, that would be one thing. And I said to him,

as a matter of fact, there is, it's called Truvada. It's, you know, shorthand prep, pre-exposure prophylaxis. We had a real conversation and I wasn't there to change his mind. He wasn't there to change my mind. But in this story in which I wanted to illuminate the challenges of ending HIV in America through the lens of what was happening in Mississippi, talking to this guy and not talking to him to make him look bad, but talking to him to really hear where he was coming from was a key ingredient in that recipe. The New York Times published a whole article called yes they are tall no they don't play basketball about tall people who are frustrated by constant questions about whether they're good at basketball my question to you is this ari are you good at basketball you know what i'm

gonna tell you john love it i used to be very serious about parkour. Oh, my goodness. You know this. You remember. I remember this because I went with you. We did parkour together. In a park. In D.C., yeah. We were, like, climbing on walls and jumping over. It was like a gazelle galloping majestically through a park, dragging me behind.

I'm picturing, like, Timon and Pumbaa in The Lion King. You know? I am one of three boys. I'm the middle. My older brother and I are both very tall. My younger brother is not. And of the three of us, my younger brother was the only one who ever cared about playing basketball.

Have you watched Tall Girl on Netflix? Is that a real show or did you make that up? It seems real. It's italicized. The answer to that question is no, I have not. It's real. It's real, okay.

What's a question you might ask someone to get their guard down if they're approaching you with skepticism? Is that about being tall? No. Oh. They're alternating. That one's about the book. Okay, you mean just like making small talk,

chatting them up? Yeah, just getting someone to loosen up. Oh, it just depends entirely on the scenario. I'll tell you, I hate like when people are trying to get a voice level, they often say, what'd you have for breakfast? Which makes people either feel like they have to prove themselves or they get intimidated and embarrassed about what they had for breakfast. I never do that.

Some people go with, what was your first car? But I don't really like that one because my first car was a bicycle and I didn't buy a car until the pandemic. I used to ask people if they ever memorized a poem in high school or college that they could recite to me, but you wouldn't believe the number of people who have never memorized a poem

in their entire life. I'm going to throw this cup across the fucking stage. I don't have a go-to question. I just get a vibe and I try to make real conversation, real small talk. My answer is the leftover Oreo cheesecake from Cheesecake Factory

from the night before. That sounds delicious. That was your first car? In a New York Times op-ed, Mara Altman, who is five feet tall, proposes that when you mate with shorter people...

Mate? Mate. Procreate. I'm quoting the word. I see the problem. But she said mate. I say mate. With shorter people.

When you do that with shorter people, you're potentially saving the planet by shrinking the needs of subsequent generations. Lowering the height minimum for prospective partners on your dating profile is a step towards a greener planet. That may well be true, but given the number of steps we need to take to save the planet, I'm not sure that ranks in the top 25. But I can't have a fucking straw?

How tall is your husband, and do you feel like marrying him was ethical? Height-wise. First of all, my husband and I are not procreating. Really important point. Really important point. Second of all, he believes he's about as tall as most people. And third of all, as you are well aware.

And he is. He is. And he is. Spiritually. Spiritually, he is as tall as most people. This is free. And he is, right? And he is.

Oh, yes. And he is. Thank you for that. Am I tall enough for procreation? That's the question. Nope. Just generally speaking, am I tall enough? Stand up.

Yeah. I'd say you are. What do y'all think? Yeah? Tall enough? Tall enough. I like being short. I don't care.

It's like the one thing I don't care about. In the soup of self-consciousness and anxiety swirling around. The fuel that runs this fucking car. That's not there for some reason. The one thing I don't care about. Isn't that amazing? Good for you. Build on that.

Build on that. That's what Dr. Christie says. And finally, James Madison was 5'4", but he was elected in 1808. Do you think America is ready for another short king or queen in the White House? I mean, I married one. Not in the White House, but yeah, sure. Oh, did I just call him short? We were so close, you were almost

out of it. It was the last question. Yeah, absolutely. It's the last barrier yet to be broken besides the whole woman in the White House thing. Yeah, it's the last one. Thank you so much, Ari. His book is The Best Strangers in the World. Everybody check it out. Thank you, John Lovett.

It's a delight. When we come back, we celebrate living in an entirely post-racial... No, we're not in a post-racial... Who wrote this? We'll be right back. Ari Shapiro. Don't go anywhere.

This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. Please welcome back the incredible host of the iconic Yo! Is This Racist? It's Tawny Newsome and Andrew T. Hello. Hey. Hi. Hello.

Hi. Good to see you both again. Hi. Good to see you. Hi, hi, hi. Lower. Lower. Oh, that's about Star Trek. Oh, thank you. John. Yes? It's been a long time. It has been a long time. The last time I saw you, we were out of doors. I know. Do you miss it? Yes. Something's happened. LA

broke. Oh, yeah. Someone broke LA and someone's gonna fix it. We gotta turn LA off and back on again. Oh. Get the weather back. To broke. Someone broke LA. Who's going to fix it? We've got to turn LA off and back on again. Get the weather back. To get it warm, yeah. Let's start with an overall temperature check. How racist is 2023 shaping up to be? Oh, God. Medium rare?

Yeah, not a less... You said temperature. What do you think, Andrew? It's been more racist recently, so I guess we got to go with, yeah. I'm like, eh. It's bad. It's more of a medium well. Yeah, he did a medium well.

He made a medium well warmer in the center. Yeah, I said I want medium rare with sauteed mushrooms on top. You can't. I know. In honor of your podcast, we have a disgusting buffet of political moments from the last week. Oh, no. I'll contextualize them you'll answer the question

no but seriously in honor of your podcast is this racist I'll tell you do you find it's a hard task to find things to talk about that aren't obviously racist you know like it's fine to find things in the gray areas

oh yeah are we looking for things in the gray areas. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Wait, are we looking for things in the gray area? We are fortunate that we have people come to us with all the racist bullshit in their lives. Yeah. Our task is like turning it into more than one second of answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because the answer is like, yeah. Yeah, people call us and they're like, oh, my HR manager told me that if only the Indians had won the war, blah, blah. And we're just like, okay, turn the thing off. Like, we got to just, we don't even know where this was going. But like, you know, it's our job to stretch it out. Yeah. We're here to vamp because the answer is you asked two strangers on the internet. You know the answer.

Yeah. Of course, it's fucking racist. Yeah. Yeah. Of course it's fucking racist. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Marco Rubio said that this is not a First Amendment issue because we're not trying to ban booty videos. I don't know if there's a better term for it,

but that's not what we're trying to ban. This is not about the content of the videos that are online. It is about the dangers to the national security that are presented by the way that this company functions. Do you think saying that they're not trying to ban booty videos is racist? And is it the larger context of trying to ban TikTok with fear of China in the mix? Interesting, interesting. How do you feel about that?

Andrew, as a spokesperson for China. Hell yeah, hello. I'm wearing my most Chinese shirt right now. Oh, good for you. It says king shit. So that your Taiwanese ancestors will rise up and smack you in the face? It's very complicated, the geopolitical situation. Famously complicated.

My first hit was more, just you can tell it's racist because when Marco Rubio says booty, it really hits your ear awfully wrong. It sounds like the N-word when he says booty. it really hits your ear awfully wrong. It sounds like the N word when he says booty. You know what he means. I say it way too much on the podcast, but just the way Bill O'Reilly says black

is also the N word. It doesn't really matter what the actual word is. You just know. Also, if overwhelmingly it was a bunch of white booties, I think he'd be real into it. I think he'd be like, man, we need those booty videos. Yos is racist fact.

Marco Rubio loves white booties. Yeah. We say it all the time. It's so important. Oh, yeah. It's fabric of our nation. What else? Marjorie Taylor Greene accused Canada of helping Mexico participate

in the invasion of the U.S. by allowing Mexican tourists to travel to Canada without a visa. It seems that Canada wants to participate in Mexico's invasion of the United States because many of these Mexicans are obtaining an electronic travel authorization to fly into Canada, and they get that approved within minutes and then they end up coming into the United States.

Because that's what every Mexican person wants to do is go somewhere very cold where they have no Mexican food. You ever eaten Mexican food in Canada? It's a hate crime. I love our brethren to the north but goddamn make a guacamole that doesn't make me

want to shoot myself. Take that, Canada. Whatever. I work for a Star Trek show. I already have the most trolls in my mentions. I know that this is going to get me dragged, but I don't give a fuck. I spend a lot of time in Canada. I love that place. Your guacamole is trash.

I just like Marjorie Taylor Green, like all Confederates and Nazis, can't really come up with a good invasion plan. Because like, who is flying from Mexico to Canada to invade?

That's just poor military strategy. It's a really good point. It's just roundabout. Yeah. Why do you think they can't get the guacamole right? It's not, it's such a simple, you know,

it's like, what are they, what are they not putting in or what are they putting too much of in? I don't know. If I knew, I think I would be the prime minister. Hey.

They're putting cream cheese get out get out of here why do you know that I spent a lot of time in Canada too well it's not a conversation I'm sorry I did that

we did ask I did that everyone kind of wanted to know like as far as heckles go there's cream cheese in it that's kind of a good heckle. It does require a follow-up. Yeah.

Anytime you're in any performance, if you got a heckle, just yell some shit like that. And then... There's cream cheese in it. Yuck. Trump was on Hannity and he explained his understanding

of Chinese politics, saying he believes they use a caste system whereby the smartest person gets to the top. They do it in China, but it's done a different way. They have a caste system and the smartest person gets to the top. Damn. Why do you look right at Andrew? That is so that sucks.

Yo, that's racist. No, we divvy up this shit by race. This is how we're able to do our show. We divvy this shit up so that our podcast doesn't sound like me being like, you know what's wrong with the Chinese? And Andrew's not like, too many blacks doing X. We got to compartmentalize. I'm the one that's like, you know what's wrong with the Chinese?

Exactly. And it's a lot. So Trump, on the one hand, never met an authoritarian regime he didn't like. On the other hand, he seems to have a confusing understanding of social political system over there. So do I.

I don't understand the political system over there. I don't think it's my job to, but I definitely know it's not Trump's job to. And it's my job to but I definitely know it's not Trump's job to yeah and it's not a caste system that's something we all know how much he hates the idea of

the smartest person rising to the top it really is like that is like a dagger right to his heart and I think we can all we can all live with that a little bit. Kanye West credited Jonah Hill's performance in 21 Jump Street with making him

like Jewish people again in Kanye's first Instagram post of the year. Said Kanye, watching Jonah Hill in 21 Jump Street made me like Jewish people again. No one should take anger against one or two individuals and transform that into hatred towards millions of innocent people. No Christian can be labeled anti-Semite knowing Jesus is Jew.

Thank you, Jonah Hill. I love you. Really a hell of a penultimate sentence there. It's so context dependent. This is the Instagram post equivalent of the I'm not a baby murderer t-shirt is getting me asked a lot of questions that my t-shirt is trying to answer. You know what I'm saying? Yes, for sure.

I love the power of actors. I love that we have the power to turn your hate-filled heart into something else. I recently watched one of my favorite movies of all time, House Sitter with Goldie Hawn and Steve Martin and it made me release

any anger I had towards lying ass white women because Goldie Hawn in that movie is a lying ass white woman and she's the hero of the show so, you know, I get it. What I'm saying is, Kanye, I get you. It's the power of cinema.

You've never stopped saying that, which is troubling in some regards. I've said it consistently and I've gotten in trouble for it. No, no, no. Kanye's trash. I don't love that about you. Kanye's trash. No, I do think it's very stupid that he came to this realization this way, but I guess it's better than not. We'll take a repentant Kanye over a...

No? Well, I mean, yes, given the alternatives, I suppose. If 21 Jump Street can change him this fast, I don't trust this change. I don't know that it'll hold. That's not locked in. You're right. You're right. You're right. Because he's going to watch

a Pixar movie and be like, we're all clouds, and we're just like, okay, Kanye, you gotta... It's not that easy. Right, right. Even the first half hour of 22 Jump Street is gonna put it back on shaky ground, I feel like, so. What's the first half hour of 22? I don't even know what that means. But I know what you're getting at.

Whether or not we remember if we liked 22 Jump Street or not, and we don't remember, we must not see it, no good can come from it. And we don't, here's the most important point of the episode. Yeah. Let's not gild the lily. Let's not show him any more great Jewish content.

Why risk him going the other way? We don't need him to love Jews any more than he does right now. That's right. We can keep him here good. We don't need to scare him back into hatred zone. You think to yourself, wow, we've got him right where we want him. Let's hit him with Schindler's List.

No, we don't need that. Who knows? No, we don't even know. Who knows what happens? It's a very delicate bounce. He sees the Fablemans. We don't know what he'll do. We don't know where

he could go. We don't know how he'll respond to the Fablemans. It's about a Jewish family. None of the actors are Jewish. How's he going to interpret it? He's going to be like, I should pretend

to be a Jew next. And we'll be like, no, that's not the thing to do. It does feel like that is the next thing. That does feel, honestly, I got a little twinge of the future. You know what I mean? Am I a prophet? I think you fucking, I think you chat GPT for this situation.

I want to be alive. I mean, I am a chat GPT for Kanye. I think I can predict that the next phase of his, mark my words. Whoa. This happens? This is going to be cool. This is going to be iconic and someone will kill me in the street. But the next phase of the Kanye... The next phase of

the Kanye bullshit is that he will rebrand as a Jewish man. I see it. I see it. It's going to be Madonna Kabbalah all over again. Everybody remember that moment? This feels real. This just grew my fucking ears. Doesn't this feel real?

Hey, let's each make a Kanye prediction just in case. Okay. And then we'll all get matching tattoos. What? Are you sleeping over this weekend? What are we doing? All right. Levi's announced that they will use AI models

to supplement their human images that model their clothes online, claiming the technology will increase the number and diversity of our models for our products in a sustainable way. That's right. Ominous. So yeah, the proposal is there may or may not

be available humans of this skin tone, but a computer can always provide. Oh, I love that. What are they going to do to us? It really is like the final, like there's been controversy over the years about the race of the voice actor

versus the race of the character they voice in a video game or an animation. This is like the ultimate, this is the final Pokemon form of that, which is like, Levi's believes in representation in the sense that this looks like that, but don't worry,

only white people were involved in every aspect of this. There was no person of color anywhere near this photo shoot. In fact, this photo shoot didn't take place. Yeah, it didn't exist. This person is so diverse, they don't exist. This person is so diverse they don't exist. We've achieved

a level of impossible diversity. I love the idea of genes that are just a thought and yeah, just like why sell anything? Just have an ad for the diverse idea of nothing and charge

$400 for it and everyone can feel very good about themselves. It is so wild that finding a human being is in their mind the hard part of taking a picture. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah. Just take a, there's people everywhere. Just take a picture. There's arguably too many of them.

Well, what's ironic about it too is they're like, we haven't been able to come up with a good way to have a bunch of photos that represent the vast panoply of kinds of people. But it seems as though all they have to do is go outside. Just start choosing at random. You'll do better than you're doing right now. John, but what about going outside.com? Yeah. What about going outside VR?

In the metacom. Yeah. What about goingoutside.com? Computer. In the metaverse. You guys don't like the metaverse? Come on. What's not to like? There's one more subject we wanted to bring to your attention. Like a cat dropping a dead mouse at your feet. And that subject is the black scent.

Producer Malcolm has a plethora of black scents queued up to play. This is the final round. Our challenge to you is name the non-black person behind the black scent. Wait, wait, wait. So are these famous people?

Yes. No, they're just random people from the studio. Well, I don't know. I meant like are they politicians? Oh, no, they're just celebrities.

They're just celebs. They're just celebs. Was witch wigger too spicy for you guys? Thank you, Malcolm. Thank you, Malcolm. White people got uncomfortable, but my boy got me. Thank you, Malcolm.

You know, look, I see how if Malcolm hosted this show, that would be a great name. Look, here's what I do. I like to come here and I like to drop a discomfort bomb every now and then. I don't feel uncomfortable. A Tawny Newsome V-bomb is right in the house. I just know there's things I can't say. Yeah, me too. And I'm comfortable with that.

Yeah. And I'm very comfortable with that. All right, let's roll the first one. And I'm still in the murder business. I can hold you down. I mean, we love her, okay? What? No, we love her because the thing you always say about her.

Oh, right. So this is Iggy Azalea. Yes. What did I always say? You say it so much on the podcast. I can't remember now. I'm just, oh, what I do like about her is it is wild that she does this Trina impression because her actual life story is so fascinating

when you fucking, or not fascinating, but come on. You were like from the sticks in Australia, met T.I. and decided to be a rapper. Yeah, you were a stripper in the middle of Darwin, Australia or some back-ass random town. Talk like

that. Those people sound wild. Talk about that. Iggy Azalea could be so much more interesting. It's amazing. But it. Talk like that. Those people sound wild. Talk about that. Iggy Azalea could be so much more interesting. It's amazing. You know, but some agent was like, Nar. Ar-nar. Ar-nar.

All right, let's roll the next clip. I'll be trending. That's crazy. This one I straight up don't know. I don't know. This sounds like a child. Is this the cash me outside child? Is this the child who is to be cashed outside?

No. It was Olivia Rodrigo while streaming. Oof. Oh, no. Oof. But we are too old to know that. Yeah, I didn't know that. And I'd like to appropriate a white phrase right now and say oof magoof.

That is not good. Tawny's i don't love it crossing culture honestly i felt uncomfortable hearing the way you said it maybe you know what it wasn't that you said you can say it but it's like no it just feels yeah i apologize the hard f at the end of the hard g it was an oof magoof with a hard g i hated it all right let's roll the next one let's roll the next one. Let's roll the next one. So forget about it, Koda. Oh, is that that sportsman everybody talks about with the big arms? Wow.

It isn't. But you know who I'm talking about? I don't. I never know the sportsman with the big arms. You were thinking, I would have also guessed a Paul brother. No, no, no. You said Paul. Malcolm, get your shit together. So it's Paul Logan?

Is that a person? No. We don't know. The answer is we don't know. It was Paul Walker in Too Fast, Too Furious. Oh, but he died. Maybe his memory would be a blessing, but it did happen. Do you get an N-word pass from heaven is what I want to know.

Yeah. I mean, for a lot of white folks, that is heaven. And that is the one thing they want. So you have to imagine. I've never thought about this before in my whole life, which is this. If a racist cured cancer and went to heaven because that was obviously worth it, in heaven they can say the N-word as much as they want. Segregated heaven, yeah.

The thing with heaven is... I think they get a couple raffle tickets, like chances to say it up there. Like God's like, you get twice. Like drink tokens at an office holiday party. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. He's like, you cured cancer, you get to say it twice.

Now I am uncomfortable. Next up. Kiyomi, get your ass in here. Come on, girl. Do we not watch enough TV? I don't know what the hell's happening anymore. I don't know. I have no idea who that is.

It was Ariana Grande. Sorry. Or Ariana Grande. It was what it was. Oh my Sorry. Yeah. Or Ariana Grandy. Grandy. It was what it was. Oh, my goodness. Why does she do that?

Well, you know, black culture is taken by all folks in our... And finally... Big up, big up the whole island. Massive, it's your boy Chattanooga. Coming straight from the Golden Globes, you all seen. Living for the time, I'm expressing in a way too far what come. Big up, tune in. I mean, that's got to be Chet Hanks, right? It is. It's Chet Hanks. As much as you know it's coming, it's horrible.

Can I tell you, I met Chet Hanks once. Oh, no. And he was so delightful. Right. I have no tea. I have nothing bad to say. I was like, he was just funny and sweet and weird and very nice. And then 10 years later, he does all this bullshit.

And all I think is like, oh, you met him pre-Discovering Himself. Well, I don't know that we know that he talks like this when the cameras aren't rolling. Is this true. A little. Well, in 2012, there were shades of it. He was code switching. Oh, no. No, no. I was going to guess Langston from the first act,

but it's not a different action. You've won the game. You've won the game. Thank you so much, Andrew and Tani. Go listen to Yo! Is This Racist? And Tawny starred opposite Kevin Hart in the Netflix limited series True Story. Oh, that's true.

And you're on Space Force. That's also true. And you're voiced Ensign Beckett Mariner on Lower Decks on Paramount+. Everybody can listen to Andrew and Tawny on Yo! Is This Racist? Yeah. And check out their subscription site, suboptimalpods.com, for even more shows.

Wow. You're giving us all the plugs. Thank you. All the plugs. That's all we want. Thank you. We appreciate it. When we come back, it's time for the rant wheel.

Yay! And we're back! Love and Relief is heading back on the road for the Errors Tour. You get it. With dates all across the country, June through December, we'll be bringing together a motley crew of comedians, actors, journalists, politicians, and queer icons to dive into the latest chaos in the news and pop culture while raising money to fight trans bans and protect trans kids.

Expect games, sketches, perfect jokes, jokes that were worth a shot, and a great fucking time, even if we're mad as hell. It's a weird moment in history, the Errors Tour. You get the name.

Huh. And we're ready to make it weirder. Get your tickets at crooked.com slash events. One dollar of every Love It or

Leave It Errors Tour ticket sold. We donated directly to the Vote Save America Fuck Bans Fund, and we'll be raising money

all along the way. You can take action by donating at votesaveamerica.com slash fuckbans. Now please welcome back to the stage Langston Kerman, Ari Shapiro, and Abraham Josephine Reisman. Welcome back. And Langston Kerman for the first time. Hi. Yeah. Welcome back. Langston Kerman for the first time.

Hi. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Did you meet Michelangelo backstage? Woohoo. Oh, oh my God, he's here. All right. Jamaican Michelangelo.

Now it's time for the rant wheel. This week on the wheel, we have review culture, travel fucking up the group chat, motive, executive inaction the group chat, motive, executive inaction on abuse of trans people, mammoth meatball, stovetop popcorn,

how the hell are they getting away with this weak-ass Wendy Dang on Succession, TikTok telling you how to buy a vending machine. Let's spin it. I don't have my glasses on, so somebody's going to have to tell me. Well, I got you. You're constantly afraid I'm not going to host the show. How the hell are they getting away with this weak-ass Wendy Dang on Succession? Andrew, I believe that's yours.

I didn't think you guys were going to use all the words. I don't know what I thought was going to actually happen. But I started watching Succession way too late, and one of the things I was excited about was Wendy Dang in real life, the ex-wife of Rupert Murdoch, and probably a Chinese spy. You said it.

She has the kind of biography where you're like, it makes more sense if she's a Chinese spy. She moved here. I don't remember exactly how she moved here she was like a nanny broke up the family married the dad divorced the dad after he paid for her like law or some postgraduate degree married fucking rupert murdoch and then since then has dated vladimir putin i believe believe Tony Blair, and someone else. It makes more sense if she's a spy.

Any other explanation is fucking crazy. It sounds like she's just a goddamn winner. There's no atrocity she doesn't kind of feel attracted to, I guess. I was like,

okay, I'm going to watch this show. And it's just like a foreign stepmom. Like, come on. This is, she, the Wendy Dang is by far the most interesting person to me. And it fucking kills me, the succession. I guess sucks. You guys are with me, right?

Come on. Wow. That's it. That's my rant. Thank you, right? Come on. Wow. That's it. That's my rant. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you. Ari Shapiro, this is a yes or no question. Do you watch Excession?

No, too much toxic masculinity. Oh, my God. Wow. Let's spin it again. I knew you were going to ask, and I knew that was going to be your reaction. My first car was a bike is the transportational equivalent of

I don't have a TV Better a bike than a cheesecake I will throw this cup on the Fucking ground Travel fucking up the group chat I believe that was Tawny's suggestion This is mine and Andrew can jump in because Andrew is part of I mean we have so many group chats together

But he's part of my most active And militant group chat. And one of our group chat members is currently in Japan. Hate it. I hate this. I hate this. This motherfucker. Is fucking up the rhythm.

Because what I don't want to do, I don't want to wake my friend Cody up in Japan by sending a meme of Donald Duck doing the entire Beyonce Renaissance album. For instance. Look that up on Twitter. You will die laughing. The second he goes unique with the little Donald Duck voice fucking kills me. Every time he texts, I immediately Google

what time is it in Tokyo and say motherfucker, go to sleep and or have breakfast. So I either don't want to wake him up with that or I run the risk of sending it to our offshoot group chat

with me and Andrew and our friend Jessica that just doesn't have Cody in it and then having Cody be mad at me because I sent like a Star Trek meme which is like Kirk

covered in a bunch of tribbles and it says like, weeb girl who's obsessed with plushies bedroom be like. That's true. Like he wants to be that. that's why you put the shut the fuck up moon on when you go to bed when you go to sleep you press the shut the fuck up moon

Cody ain't that organized our friend Cody he ain't that organized so this is fucking up our group chat dynamic it's forcing me to censor myself and to think about my actions and to have to like think about things before I say them. I don't do that. I'm a podcaster.

I don't do that. So fuck you, Zig, for traveling and expanding your mind. If you leave this time zone, you're dead to me. Whatever time zone I'm in. Whatever time zone I'm in, if you're not in it, you don't exist. That's it. So anyway, get back to the United States of America.

You fucking traitor. So important. Thank you for sharing exist. So anyway, get back to the United States of America. You fucking traitor. So important. Thank you for sharing that. You're welcome. And people are all in these group chats with their friends. Yeah. Babe. Wow. Not that much. Is there like a software you download?

Start by returning texts. That's a good first step. Wow. That's fair. That's a good first step. Wow. That's fair. That's fair. That sounds so fun. I'm going to try one of these group texts. Yeah.

It's a slack, but there's no HR. Let's spin it again. it has landed on executive inaction on abuse of trans people now i just i'll rant briefly and i know i already did a little bit in the interview but it just drives me crazy that i see all of these horrific genocidal anti-trans bills and i don't hear people at the top of the political system in this country every day saying this can't happen it drives me crazy we have like stuff that it's not just like oh well let's you know it's not actually illegal it's just trans people wouldn't like it to happen. Completely baseline unconstitutional stuff is happening in Florida and Oklahoma, all over the place.

And I just don't see our tip-top leaders. We end up having these, like, viral videos of state legislators who I love, who I love, who are so pro-trans and have trans kids. I'm sorry I'm getting emotional. I'll stop. I'll stop. I'll stop. But it's just some... Oh, okay. It just, it's really, really upsetting. And I just feel like there's no one up at the top who cares.

We're just sacrificial lambs sometimes. And I just, I'm sick of it. It drives me insane. I'm sorry. I just don't usually get to be on big podcasts, so I wanted to make it count. And this is a huge podcast. Yeah, it is a huge

podcast, so thank you. That's a really important point. Thank you for sharing that. Let's spin it again. it has landed on and that's the beauty of love it or leave it we move on to the topic of mammoth meatballs yes fuck yeah it's my time baby i i don't i don't know how aware everyone is, but some scientists in Australia

made a meatball out of mammoth meat. They did that. They made a whole meatball. And the first, what are we doing? Do you know what I mean? What are we really doing at this point? And I like science. I'm a big fan of some of my best friends are science.

I love science, but this is too goddamn far. Science is being, it's being refused everywhere we go. Poor Fauci can't show his face out in the world because we were just outright saying no to science. And these goofy motherfuckers are playing with meatballs. We're doing meatball shit right now. There's so much more to fix. Do you know what I mean?

Just fundamentally at this point, and this is either fix COVID, get rid of of covid or make it so all poops are one white that's the only that's the only science anybody's got to be working on everything you you show up with goddamn meatballs i'll shoot you thank you thank you for sharing that. It is funny that the premise of Jurassic Park was that, okay, we find these mosquitoes in amber, we use the DNA, mix it with reptile DNA, and we make these beautiful and magnificent creatures from an ancient time to see how they run and move and ignite our sense of wonder. And it's like, sorry, Michael Crichton, you set your sights

a little too high. We're going to recreate the woolly mammoth, not to roam around. We're starting with ground chuck. That's it. That's as far as our sights are set. We're going to recreate the woolly mammoth, a majestic

creature that lived after the building of the pyramids. So close they were to us, and yet so far, we're gonna make one. And before it's even had a chance to dip its little snout in a river, you're a fucking meatball.

And you know what's even worse is that they said they made this meatball, and nobody's willing to eat it because they're scared that their bodies are going to reject it. That they'll all be allergic to the goddamn meatball. And I say, you have to eat the meatball.

You know, the toothpick in the meatball actually came from a prehistoric tree. Yes. A prehistoric toothpick. An ancient toothpick in the meatball. I mean toothpick in the meatball. I mean, if they made like pterodactyl tacos, I'd be into that.

But you have to spell taco with a P. Yeah. Wow, that's why they pay you the big bucks. Okay, NPR, come on. Come on, NPR. Wow.

Pterodactyl Patacos. Let's spin it again. I love it. It has landed on review culture. All right. First, it started with Uber and Lyft, and I said nothing. And then it spread to every single fucking app in the app store. And now I cannot swipe my credit card

without being asked to rate from one to five stars how the experience was. And if I rate it four stars, there are 20 subsequent questions for me to fill out. There was an episode of Black Mirror where you were rated on every interaction you had with another person. And I feel like I'm living in the inverse of that episode. So I've just decided I'm not going to review anything ever,

except, except, I made an exception because I had an interaction with an online clothing store I'm not going to name that sent me not only the wrong thing, but a fucked up wrong thing, and then they erected so many hurdles for me to return it, I was like, you know what? I'm going to break my no reviews rule. I gonna write a review i'm gonna give a one star and

you know what happened literally jack shit that's right and the worst thing about all this is that despite my hatred of this culture i still have to fucking ask you to rate my book on Amazon and Goodreads. He got there. He got there. He got to commerce in the end. Sometimes you'll be in a lift or you'll order food delivery and then in the moment of exchange, there'll be a conversation and be like, please give me five stars.

It's very important. And I always do because I didn't come here to help this company. No, opt out. You're confronted with the reality of the rating system. You can tip and not review. That's true. You can tip and not rate.

That's true. I tip handsomely and I do not give stars. No more stars. No more stars. No more goddamn stars. Let's spin it again. No more stars. It has landed on motive. Here's what I want to say.

We just went through another week where there was a horrible mass shooting, and the debate turned on the motive of the shooter. And this is often what happens in the wake of mass shootings, that there is a debate that unfolds about the reason a mass shooter decided to do what the mass shooter did. And sometimes those kinds of debates have value. There is value to know when

a vast media apparatus that is spreading right-wing hate and misinformation and vile, divisive lies that try to turn us against each other, that try to paint gay people, or black people, or immigrants, or a group of marginalized people into a vile enemy. We need to know that and understand that, because that system, it slowly filters down to people who are more and more lost until you reach people that take it to its logical conclusion. That's important. We need to do that. But at the same time, I do think that there is this problem where when we focus on the motive of what drove a mass shooter, the rationale they use, we separate these events from each other and fail to see the connection between somebody who might have been motivated by

anti-Muslim hate and anti-immigrant hate and anti-black hate or anti-woman hate or anti-Christian hate or whatever the hatred or motivation that became the justification for the violence and narcissism and selfishness and desire to go out with a blaze of glory that was driving them to ultimately find guns and use guns to kill people in their community. And I think a lot of progressives, as the shooting in Nashville unfolded, had this strange conversation quietly where they were worried and discomfited to turn out that there was this debate unfolding in real time as to whether or not this particular person may or may not have been trans. And I think that is a trap that we shouldn't fall into, but I think sometimes it's a trap we set. And we need to do less worrying and focusing on the specific rationale of a person who did something vile and used and grabbed onto something in the world to justify an act of atrocity, of personal animus, of violence, of hatred

that was driving them, who latched onto something, and that became the architecture, the structure to which they could attach their emotions. We need to spend less time on that debate and focus more on the underlying systemic reasons we have these mass shootings in this country, and that is because of guns,

first and last, because of guns, but it is also because of a social contagion and the way ideas spread on the Internet and a mental health crisis, especially among young men. We need to focus on the broader picture about why these things are happening on such a grand scale in this country and spend a little less time worrying about the rationale

of the person taking the act and step outside and remind ourselves that their rationale doesn't matter because they're violent murderers. That's where we're ending the show. And another thing. We indicted Donald Trump this week.

And that's the rant wheel. When we come back, we'll end on a high note. And we're back. Because we all need it this week, here it is, the high note. Hey, love it. My name is Luke, and my highlight this week, and this month, this year, and this lifetime,

is this awesome woman named Katie. As of this red-hot moment, she is my fiancé, but hopefully when this airs, we'll be happily married and driving to the airport for our honeymoon. As if getting married wasn't enough to do in our spare time lately, we'll also be moving to a new city as soon as we get back. I can't wait to go on this adventure and through life with her. Hey, Lovett. This is Austin from Florida.

And my high note of the week was winning an election, or mostly winning an election, going to a runoff now against a man who self-funded $330,000 against my candidate. And we won on 140. I recruited a team of 13 people who were super interested in politics, and I was able to coach them up on how to run an active campaign. And we're hoping to use our team moving forward to help out other Democrats in our city. So the fight goes on, but we really appreciate the morale that you give us on the weekend, because you make me and my candidate and some of the other members of my staff laugh.

Thank you for that, and keep working hard. of the other members of my staff left. Thank you for that, and keep working hard. Hi, my high note is that I just left Dynasty Typewriter and had a blast. I'm in SoCal looking at colleges with my daughter, a trip that might not have happened because I recently learned I have cancer, but fortunately we were able to make the trip and getting to see Love It was the cherry on top. Thanks for making a bittersweet trip that much sweeter. Love ya. Bye. Hey, my name's Sean and there was a thing you said on an episode a long time ago that was, I think that too many people rely on gravity to wash their legs. And I wanted to let you know that it struck me and it's changed my life into now I am a regular,

intentional leg washer. Thanks, John. And thanks to everybody who sent in a high note tonight. If you want to leave us a message about something that gave you hope, call us at 323-538-2377. That is our show. Thank you so much to Lacey Kerman, Tawny Newsome, Andrew T., Abraham Joseph E. Reisman, and Ari Shapiro. There are 584 days until the 2024 midterm elections. Have a great night. Thanks for coming out and have a great weekend. producer and Malcolm Whitfield is our associate producer. Howie Keeper is our head writer. Sarah Lazarus, Jocelyn Kaufman, Tolivi Gunalan, Peter Miller, Rebecca Kaplan, Alan Pierre

and Chandler Dean are our writers. Bill Lance is our editor and Kyle Seglin and Stephen Colon are our audio engineers. Our theme song is written and performed by Sure Sure. Thanks to our designers, Jesse McLean and Caroline Haywood for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And to our digital producers, Zuri Irvin, Milo Kim, Mia Kelman, and Matt DeGroote for filming and editing video each week so you can. You can find those glorious videos at our YouTube page, youtube.com slash at Love It or Leave It podcast. Who do we have to kill to get that name? Subscribe to Love

It or Leave It on YouTube for access to video versions of your favorite segments and other exclusive content. Don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on IG and Twitter. And if you are as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.