Lovett or Leave It - The Bipartisans Strike Back

Episode Date: June 19, 2021

Kaitlin Olson joins to break down the week’s news, from Manchin’s shifts to Putin’s gifts. Writer and programmer Rusty Foster explains crypto currency to Lovett - the “who what when ransomware why” if you will. Plus a game about the NYC mayoral candidates and high notes!For a closed-captioned version of this episode, please visit crooked.com/lovettorleaveit. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

Welcome to Love It or Leave It, Vaxxed to the Future. Oh, thank you, thank you, darlings. Yes, thank you. It's me, it's Razzle McDougal. Thank you, please take your seats. Take your seats. I'll never need a fancy car Or need to order the steak tartare The only thing I really need is To see the face behind the mask It's been a long time now, my love

We've learned a lot in isolation Tempers flared, eyes glared You said that thing about my drinking But then along came Joe Biden With Kamala strutting right beside him Saving lives by canning lies They rolled it all out And gave us hope in a world full of doubt.

You know, the CDC, hell, it's all news to me. This guy Fauci, he says, go get the ouchie. Alright, I believe him. It's just a prick, doesn't hurt a lick and because of it, our summer's lit.

Let's all just fix lit Let's all just fix Let's all just fix Let's all just fix To the future I'll drink to that That amazing song was sent by Razzle McDougal. Okay, I like that name. If it's your real name, I think that's great.

If it's your stage name, I think that's great. Also, I'm going to make a decision on the fly. That was our last Facts to the Futures theme song because from now on, we want theme songs for our new theme, Out of the Closets, Into the Streets. And if you have a theme song for us, for our live pride show or for the shows that come after, you can email it to us at

leaveitatcrooked.com. Before we get to the show, we just want you all to know the Crooked store has some incredible new additions, like our first ever beach towels with phrases including vaccinated and gay for democracy. As always, a portion of every order in the Crooked store is donated to vote writers. So shop for our merch. So please check out the store right now at crooked.com slash store. On the show this week, writer Rusty Foster tries to teach me about cryptocurrency and we play a game to help New Yorkers fill out their mayoral ballots. But first, she is an incredibly funny actress. You know her from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, The Mick, and most recently, Hacks on HBO Max. Please welcome Caitlin Olson. Caitlin, thanks for being here. Hello. How are you? So first of all, my co-host, John Favreau,

his brother Andy played a hunk on The Mic. Yes, of course he did. He was very hunky. Was he shirtless? He was. I do believe it involved like some very sexual drinking of milk yeah yeah the the milk was to pour down his naked chest as we all um gait including the children that i was working with it was it was a very comfortable day for me what a star he is yeah he really did it he did it let's get into What a week. A man was sentenced to 15 years in prison for killing his mother and eating her in the apartment the two shared in Madrid. Caitlin, you know what that's called? What? It's called a Spanish momlet. Oh, oh, great one. Just coming out strong. I want you to know that I said it out loud several times because I couldn't stop myself from laughing

halfway through the term Spanish momlet. I still can't. I still can't. Obviously a dark story. I really like it. I like that one. Spanish momlet. And he killed her and ate her.

He killed her and ate her. Real dark. I have hated my mom at times. I've never once had the desire to do either of those two things. And I'll just take this moment to say, shout out, Fran Lovett. Happy birthday. It is my mother's birthday. Happy birthday, Fran. I hope your son never kills or eats you. And it's just so not our relationship. Right. You know, that is just not our dynamic. No. We've never done that. That's just not us. That's not my family. Every family is different. That's right. That's true. No judgment. Every gets it gets shortened in the translation of the Tolstoy.

I don't know. I'm not smart. I think it's so anyway. Put it in the comments. During his during his first face to face meeting with speaking of Vladimir Putin on Wednesday, President Biden presented Putin with a crystal bison sculpture and a pair of custom aviator sunglasses. This was a gift that was carefully selected to convey the sensitive diplomatic message. It's me, Joe Biden. Did Trump wear aviators? I don't think so. Oh, Joe Biden wears aviators and gives people weird crystal statues.

That's the vibe. You know what? That's exactly how I like to be represented. You know, I'm glad our president did that on my behalf. I think it's great. I think it's great. In a press conference after the summit, Putin told reporters, there is no happiness in life. There is only a mirage on the horizon. So cherish that, which is a common Russian expression that roughly means the meeting was constructive.

So I saw it like there's some like confusion as to where that's from. Like, obviously, it's like a doubt or people are mocking it as like, what a Russian thing. I don't know. But I like the idea of just sort of I like I wish politicians were more lyrical. I want them to say more strange, oblique, mood setting phrases, you know? Yeah, you want you want them to be as confusing as you grew up knowing them to be. I think that's right. Just say words and have them mean nothing, nothing. Well, I do think a lot of politicians say things that mean nothing. And it would be nice if instead

of like, okay, you're not gonna answer the question. You know, you're asked, like, do you believe in defund the police? And they'll say, well, obviously, we need to do a bunch of different kinds of reforms. And while I support law enforcement, I do. It's a very complicated and long winded answer. I wish they would instead say something more aligns with like, the human soul contains darkness. And within each of us, we are fallen. And yet we strive to be better versions of ourselves.

And then you're kind of like kind of puzzling over that. It's like, well, you didn't answer my question. No, I didn't. No, I didn't. But I'm making you think. Right. You know, I'm a poet now. Yeah. Now hand me your baby and I'll, you know, be real gross with it and we can move on. Can move on. On a boat outside the Biden-Putin Geneva summit, Noor Bin Laden,

Osama Bin Laden's niece, protested by holding up a Trump one sign. Now, a lot of people have been critical, but it couldn't have been easier for her to lose her uncle. And I just think we have to let people grieve in their own way, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Even if it takes years and years and years. That's her process. It was her process and potentially she was married to him. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. That's a really good point. We don't know. She could have lost both her uncle and her husband.

Stark. On Wednesday, Joe Manchin outlined his demands for a compromise on voting legislation. Manchin's For the Some of the People Act would end partisan gerrymandering, but would include a voter ID requirement,

a trade-off that Stacey Abrams said she supports. Mitch McConnell has already rejected the compromise, saying all Republicans will oppose that as well. But that's bipartisanship. You got to break a few eggs if you want to make an omelet for Mitch McConnell to throw in the

garbage immediately. You know, what's he going to throw in the garbage? I don't I don't know. Hopefully his hair and face at some point. He's tough. He's no fun. One time being nice, be like, you know what? Surprise. I love the compromise. Surprise. I want to work together, guys. I'm in. Surprise. I want to better this country. Here's the thing. Yesterday, because I was trying to destroy the country, I missed my son's birthday. And then he wished on the cake that I couldn't tell a lie for a day. And at the end of the day, all of a sudden, I realized that like, wait a second, I've been lying my whole adult life. All of a sudden, it was like, wait a second, I'm not lying. But the wish is over. I'm different. Mitch McConnell's different. I learned a little something. All right. From the wisdom of babes, you know, from the wisdom of babes. So I'm for the deal. That's what he said.

It's beautiful. It's like, it's like, you can make that into a children's lullaby and sing it to them right before they fall asleep and then mitch mcconnell uh it's like you know it's like the the the grinch thing you know the one with the presence yeah it's a right with his presence i guess at the end he's better he learns that's that's that's what we're looking for yeah i don't think we're gonna get it but i don't think we're gonna get it but i don't think we're going to get it. I don't think we're going to get it. But I don't know. It's only 2021. There's so many years left of him, I guess. He also, I mean, look, he also, so yes, he shot down this compromise immediately. He also gave an interview where he said explicitly that if he retakes, that if Republicans retake the Senate, that he will not allow Joe Biden to put a Supreme Court justice on the Supreme Court, that he will not allow a nomination to go through.

And it's like, hey, hey, Stephen Breyer, pay attention. I know being on the Supreme Court is cool and is probably, you know, leaving that job is stressful, you know, looking on at the, you know, the twilight of your life. I don't know what that's like. That's right. I have another seven or eight good years in me based on how I eat. But he basically just came out and said it.

It's like, no, I'm not going to do these voting compromises. I'm not going to let you put a judge on the Supreme Court. I'm going to do everything I can to defeat everything you stand for. And then Joe Manchin's like, I think I can work with these people. Very frustrating. Marjorie Taylor Greene,

a 47-year-old woman whose eyes still sparkle with childlike ignorance, apologized for comparing mass mandates to the Holocaust after a visit to the Holocaust Museum on Monday. But she refused to walk back her statement comparing the Democratic Party to the Nazi Party. The thing is, Caitlin, it's a big museum and you can't see it all in one day. All right. She's learning. We can't ask for too much. Listen, she gave us a tiny little bit and we just have to pat her on the back. I just can't. You're a 47 year old woman, a member of Congress, and you have to go to the Holocaust Museum to learn why it is wrong to compare the Holocaust to mask mandates

at restaurants and bars. I guess it's a great argument for museums. I was just going to say, thank God there are museums. You know what I mean? Because they really teach school-aged children things and also middle-aged women things. And so God bless them. I agree. I agree. Thankfully, that museum was there. Senator Tom Cotton warned the Biden administration that China plans to harvest the DNA of world-class athletes at the 2022 Winter Olympics for the purpose of developing super soldiers. Obviously, this is completely insane. If you're going to collect DNA for world domination, you do the Summer Olympics.

Nobody wants a super soldier who's good at luge. That doesn't get you anywhere. You want the jumping and the throwing and the discus, you know? That's where you're going to want to make your super soldier from. God, you're so smart. They'll never defeat our soldiers because they can push a block of ice

and brush a broom right in front of it so well. That's stupid. You want the gymnasts. You want the jumps. Yeah, you gotta get those jumps. God help us if they can make soldiers out of Simone Biles. Oh, no. Yeah. Right. That's it.

That's the key right there. Too chilling to think about. She's going so high up in the air. She's so good. They're slowing her videos down. Slow motion. I'll watch about. She's going so high up in the air. She's so good. They're slowing her videos down. Slow motion. I'll watch it. She's impossible. I'll pause it. I'll pause it and practice it in my yard.

You'll practice it. I hurt myself, but I'll try. Sorry, I'm not available for the next three to seven months. I am in full traction because I did attempt. So some people say, you know, start slow. Not me. When Simone Biles pushes the sport of gymnastics further, I see that as my opportunity. That's where I start.

That's right. And I say, hey, kids, come out here and watch this. This is what she did. And then they have to find a way to get me to the emergency room. You say, follow your dreams. That's right. And then leap into the air off of some get me to the emergency room. You say, follow your dreams. That's right. And then leap into the air off of some kind of a spring-mounted thing. Yeah.

Or not. Or just off of a fallen tree branch that doesn't have any spring. So don't really get that high off the ground anyway. I hit my head before I even do the flip. There's a certain sound a person makes when they get winded when they fall you know what i mean that kind of like that like kind of like the lady crushing grapes yes you know that's the sound and that's what i'll do and i'll go on my way to the emergency room she She thinks her name is Simone Biles.

That is so funny. If the gymnastics didn't entertain people, my noise is on the way to the ER will. You know, that's how I look at it. That's so funny. According to an article published in the New York Times, Starbucks locations have been running low on ingredients such as popular drinks, breakfast foods, cups, lids and straws. When reached for comment, the guy in Madrid who ate his mom said, yeah, they were out of sous vide egg bites. That's what I've been trying to tell you people. Have you had the sous vide egg bites from Starbucks?

Oh, my God. So they have a kale and mushroom one that I'm really into. But I feel like after this, they should make a mom-flavored one and just see what happens. Yeah, just so, come on. Come on, Starbucks. Yeah, get with it. There's no such thing as bad. That'll get some engagement. Yeah, stay current, Starbucks.

And here's the thing. Like, yeah, I mean, obviously, I don't, it's not my first choice. I'd obviously prefer some of the sandwiches, but look how few carbs. But when backed into a corner, right? Yeah. Yeah. Cut the carbs out. Eat an egg-flavored mom or mom-flavored egg bite.

Sous-vide Spanish omelet. Sous-vide Spanish omelet. Now from Starbucks. No shortage of those. That's right. Those, they have extra. It's a niche corner store coffee shop kind of snack, breakfast snack. Is it locally sourced?

Are these moms locally sourced? Are they non-GMO? I certainly hope so. I'm sick of these genetically modified mom omelets. It's disgusting. Gross. Just not good for you. You know what I mean?

Caitlin Olsen, I like how we ended this. I'm so confused before i let you go though you are so fucking good on hacks i love hacks thank you do you love it it's good right it's amazing i you are so funny on it every time you're on it is so exciting thank you every moment uh i love hacks uh i've been so excited. I was like so excited. I was like nervous because Paul and Lucia, like Travis Helwig, who was the head writer for this show, his wife, Jen Satsky, is one of the creators. Yes. And I was so excited for it.

And I was so nervous. It's like, am I going to have to? Look, your friend makes a show. You send him a text. You tell him you love it. I get it. No, no. You just send him a text and you're like, oh my gosh, the production value is so, it

looks great. It's beautiful if you hate it. Right. Yeah. And I was, it really looks like you went to Vegas, you say, complimentually. Yeah, yeah. That's right. That's right. But it's so fucking good. Everybody should watch Hacks. Caitlin is amazing on Hacks. Gene Smart is amazing. Hannah Einbinder is amazing. So everybody check out Hacks. Thank you so much, Caitlin, for being here. When we come back, we play a game about the New York mayor's race. Hey, don't go anywhere.

There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. Ah, the Big Apple. If you can make it there, you bought a ticket to go there. In a town as democratic as New York, the big fight in the mayoral race has been the Democratic primary. So next week, the greatest city in the world will be taking to the polls for the nigh on impossible task of replacing the best mayor they've had since Michael Bloomberg. And we thought we'd help New Yorkers navigate their rank choice ballot in a game we like to call

Now You're in New York. The subway rats just might eat you if you are a short gay Jew. Now You're in New York. Here to play is Catherine. Catherine, I chose not to sing it. Okay. I made a decision. I think that's fair. It's okay.

I think that's valid. Thanks. Catherine, are you in New York City? I am in New York City. Yes. Are you planning to vote or have you already voted in the New York mayoral primary? I am planning on voting. I have not yet voted. The way this race has been going, I'm like worried somebody is going to, I don't know,

like punch a baby or something after I vote. You know, you know, so. Have you made up your mind yet? More or less. More or less. I know my number one. I have like an idea of the next four, but I don't know exactly the positioning, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it's wild. Here's how this quiz works. I'm going to share something that a mayoral candidate did that a voter might want their mayor to do. All right. You're going to have to tell us which candidate. At the end, you'll tell us if it's affected your decision. OK? OK. Call Donald Trump fat. No idea. It was Andrew Yang.

Of course it was. Once complained about Andrew Yang, but I'm famous, too. They recognize me, too. Eric Adams? Nope. That was Scott Stringer. Of course. Okay. Who called Bill de Blasio the best boss? Maya Wiley? Correct. Posted pictures of the refrigerators in his homes to brag about his vegan diet and then blamed his son when people pointed out that there were non-vegan food items in the fridge. Eric Adams. I don't think that was his real apartment.

No. I mean, everyone did like a deep dive and those were like his son's shoes. He had that like beautiful poster that looked like he'd stolen it from a middle school. Who once said they fell in love with garbage? Garcia. That is, that's Catherine Garcia, former sanitation commissioner.

For the last 24 years, this candidate has ended every day by journaling about all their failures and shortcomings and then address themselves in the third person Eric Adams? Correct. Included attracting TikTok hype houses to New York as part of their platform. Yay. Yep, you got it. Called Stop and Frisk a great tool.

Eric Adams? Correct. Bought his tickets to Fast and Furious 9 the second they became available. Donovan? Ray McGuire. That's funny, though. Could have been John Donovan. Could have been John Donovan. I once saw Fast 7 with Barack Obama, he said. Thinks restaurants should get a heads up before a health inspection. Garcia.

Catherine. Yeah. Why do we think Catherine Garcia said that? I'm not a New York City voter. All right. But I am a one issue voter and I understand the hardship. I want restaurant business to work in New York, but I also want surprise inspections. Has she adapted on this at all? Has she recanted this at all?

I don't know. That was a wild moment of the first debate. I'm a waitress and I also think we should have surprise inspections. It's not like my favorite moment when like people start screaming and losing their shit, but you know, it's important. It's important. Yeah. I just think people are people, you know, I just know that like I had classes when I was in school. If some of the teachers do pop quizzes, you're more prepared when the teachers do pop quizzes. You know, it's just human nature.

My favorite moment during an inspection, this happened in New Jersey, but I had a boss that was like, take all of the iced tea and put it in the office. They're not allowed to go in the office. And I was like, why are we locking up the iced tea? And she's like, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Just lock up the iced tea. What was wrong with the iced tea? We'll never know. I never even served the iced tea

there. I don't know why. She was an experience, but I mean, so many restaurant managers are. So you've decided on your number one, you're not sure on number two, and you're not sure on number three. Is that right? I know who I'm voting for. I just don't know in which order, if that makes sense. But I know who my number one is. Here's my guess on your on your order. Are you ready? Go for it. Wiley Garcia Morales. No to Garcia. But yes, I volunteered for Morales before her like campaign, you know, floated, imploded. I had a lot of fun actually, like talking to voters in Union Square. My favorite people are like seven year old New Yorkers where you can tell they've lived in the city for 30 years who just like make a beeline to you.

And they're like, all right, give me your 30 second elevator pitch. Go. No bullshit. They're like, this is my number one issue. Talk to me. I'm just like, I, okay. Who's the person I'm missing? I'm not like in love with Sean Donovan. I think he's going to make my top three just because I agree with him on more policy than I do with Garcia. Like Garcia in the debate last night listed like defund the police is like a stupid idea

of one of her opponents. And I'm just like, no, thank you. I don't feel like we have a lot of great options. Here is my theory on your voting. Here is my theory, which is that you're a wily number one, that that's done. Lock that in. That's correct. Now you're being strategic in your twos and your threes. And you're thinking about who hasn't said any like wild shit that I'm aware of. But at the end of the day,

like I went through a couple different websites that done a comparison of policy. And I was just like, all right, you know what? I don't think I agree with you on a lot of policy. So I'm not going to rank anybody that I don't agree with. Catherine, you've won the game. Thank you.

Thank you so much for playing. And now good luck with the game that is your rank choice ballot. And very exciting to see how this chaotic primary ends up. I'm so worried. I've been following this so extensively. And I'm just like here, like I'm a waitress and not a political analyst. I'm one woman doing my best.

I have no fucking idea. You know? You know what? You know what? What? Some of the best things that have ever happened in this place happened because of one woman doing her best. I have no fucking idea. You know? You know what? You know what? What? Some of the best things that have ever happened in this place happened because of one woman doing her best. Thank you, Catherine. When we come back, I talk to an expert, Rusty Foster, about cryptocurrency,

about the blockchain, about the environmental impact, about ransomware. It was a great conversation. Check it out. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. He is a programmer and writer of the Today in Tabs newsletter. Please welcome Rusty Foster. Rusty, thanks for being here. Hey, thanks for having me. I just want to step back and have a conversation about cryptocurrency. It's been in the news as the price goes up and down. Its frequency in the news seems to go up and down, too. It's been in the news as the price goes up and down. Its frequency in the news seems to go up and down, too. It's also been in the news a lot lately around it being used as payment for various ransomware attacks and the environmental impact. But I wanted to step back and just

talk to you about it in the most basic of terms. And I wanted to separate some things that I think often get combined. So I want to take each of these one at a time. One is blockchain. One is the kind of argument for a digital currency outside of government. And then the third piece of it, specifically these currencies like Bitcoin and how they're made and the theory behind that. So let's take these one at a time. Bitcoin began in part, correct me if I'm wrong about this, with a paper that explained the blockchain and how it would be useful to creating records of transactions. What is the blockchain and why did it become this sort of record-keeping technology that people are talking about? The blockchain is a spreadsheet, basically. It's a distributed ledger, which is, you know, a ledger is a spreadsheet. It's a database,

essentially. The problem it's trying to solve is, which is, you know, ledger is the spreadsheet. It's a database, essentially. The problem it's trying to solve is how could you have a database where everybody can add entries to the database, but nobody can go back and change old entries or mess with it or say that like, oh, this line doesn't say this. It actually says that without one central computer being the place that stores the right version of the database. So everybody involved in the network can have the same database and it can be updated reliably. That's the thing that Bitcoin the right version of the database. So everybody involved in the network can have the same database and it can be updated reliably. That's the thing that Bitcoin is trying to solve. The basic idea there is like, you know, let's say, you know, I want to buy something from

you right now. Traditionally, the way I would do it is we'd have some exchange of currency and like there'd be some record of that and it would be kept by an Amazon or a Google. And yeah, that's backed up in a million places, a very sophisticated means of protecting their data. But ultimately, there is a kind of single point of failure that kind of controls that record. And what the blockchain does is sort of distributes that information. It is kept everywhere. There's no place you can delete it. It is a kind of distributed piece of information.

Yes. You can delete it. It is a kind of distributed piece of information. Yes. Now, connected to that is the argument for why you would want that kind of information decentralized and why you would want a currency that's decentralized, like why you wouldn't want to rely on a dollar or euro or a Delta SkyMile or what have you. So can you talk a little bit about that? So, OK, they have this technology, this idea of this distributed ledger. Now they want to apply it to currency. Can you just talk a little bit

about the reasoning for that? All right, this is, I'll do my best to make the case. This is not a case that I personally believe very much in because it's been, we've had Bitcoin for 10 years and so far the main applications for it

that we've come up with are all crime. So- Yes. Well, one thing that you said, I far, the main applications for it that we've come up with are all crime. So, yes. Well, one thing that you said, I think, presciently years ago is cryptocurrency is a great way for libertarians to get robbed. Yes, that was the first killer application of cryptocurrency. So that was the like 2012 to 2015 era of Bitcoin. And the era we're in now is the ransomware era, where they've discovered an even better application, which is extorting money from companies and hospitals and police departments and whoever, you know, oil pipelines, in order to get your data back, which is actually a very mature business at this point. It's a software as a service industry. Yes. And I want to get to those downsides.

But I know you don't agree, but like, okay, we want a distributed currency not controlled by government. What was the argument for that? It's not even so much that it's not modern. It's actually really easy to track Bitcoin. It's all public. It's all in the ledger. Like, it's very easy to see what coins go where. The argument for it is, say you live in a country where the government controls the currency, which is, I mean, most countries, but you don't trust the government at all. The government's always messing with the currency. They say it's worth this. They

say it's worth that. You're taking a wheelbarrow full of bills to the store to buy an egg, right? What if there was a currency that was not tied to, you know, the government couldn't say what it was and you could, no government could control whether you could transfer that currency back and forth with your relatives in the United States where they have a more stable currency or some other country where they have more stable currency. That's one of the use cases for it. It's really just as a store of value that can't be messed with for political reasons. The other use case that I find at least plausible, although not with the technology we have right now, is just for banks to have one single sort of backplane to the banking

system where I deposit money in dollars and my aunt in France wants to take it out in euros. And the two banks just transfer, you know, my bank converts it to Bitcoin, their bank converts it from Bitcoin. And it's just an easy like make the money digital, send it across the world, get it out of digital and put it in a different currency. Is that something akin to what I believe either I think it's JP Morgan has has tried to do to have a kind of backend currency that they're using? Yes. Bitcoin is a terrible choice for this because the transactions are expensive and the system is very slow.

The solutions that work well for this are always like, well, this is JP Morgan's blockchain that we control. And then like, what's the point of doing a blockchain? Just have a database. Like databases are very lightweight and easy to use and we're very good at it. Yeah. Okay. So we have, these are the kind of two pieces of the puzzle. And you would argue against these rationales, but it's that it's this distributed record. It's this currency that can't be politicized by a government. And then you get to the specific case of Bitcoin. And one of the things that I think has always been like, I've struggled to wrap my head around. It's like, let's say I buy that argument. Like, OK, this ledger can't be deleted because it exists everywhere. It's a currency that is not controlled by any one government. And for all the

all the risks that are associated with that, I want to create a currency that is free of that. The thing that always sort of doesn't really make sense to me is like, OK, well, how did you decide what this value would be based on it? Like, it almost feels like it's a video game, like go hunt for these bitcoins in this this digital space. And if you find them, they're worth something based on a collective decision that they have value like like Extra Lives and Super Mario Brothers, like Korok seeds in Breath of the Wild.

That is what's confusing about cryptocurrency. And I puzzled about that for a long time until very recently when people started making the energy arguments about Bitcoin. It has since become clear that the value of a cryptocurrency comes from wasting something, essentially. In the case of Bitcoin, it's a proof of work algorithm, which means that you have consumed a certain amount of electricity and then that electricity essentially becomes the initial value of the block that's generated. There are other ways to do that.

There's proof of stake, which is like people holding 50% of the currency have to agree that the block is valid for the block to be valid. And that's how you create the chain. So it uses a lot less electricity, but it still does like it consumes a resource, which is kind of the resource it's creating. There's a new one called Chia, which is based on a protocol called proof of space. And literally what it does is it wastes hard drive space. So rather than doing work, you provably waste hard drive space. And that is how you, that's how you create the new, the new blocks. It's almost like it's, it is arbitrary. It's

basically trying to create a kind of collective thing we value, whether it's mining, looking for specific lines of code deep within a digital space to find bitcoins deeper and deeper into this. I don't even know what you'd call it. Math mine. It's guessing numbers. Guessing numbers. But the numbers get harder to guess. So you're guessing you have to go further and further and you're guessing. Yeah.

So it has gone from being like, OK, this is a digital currency to now like, in some ways, like this is a digital asset. This is a thing that is, you can use it as a currency in the same way that if you really, really wanted to, you could use an Apple piece of Apple stock as a currency. But it's kind of transactionally complicated and hard to do. So it's really more like an asset. And this asset will rise and fall based on the demand for that asset. But like whether it's U.S. dollars as a currency or a unit of Tesla stock, like, yes, it's gambling. Yes, it's speculation. But right? Like there's no inherent value to the mining that these networks of servers across the world are doing. Or am I wrong about that? The servers are using energy. They're consuming energy and they're turning it into unique numbers in a ledger. If you shut off all the computers, it's all gone. Like every bit of

it is gone. Whatever isn't written down on a piece of paper is gone. So no, in some sense, there's no value to it. But I don't know, that's a difficult question. Like we've created scarcity in a system in which there is no inherent scarcity, which is valuable, kind of. Like that's what value is, right? It's scarcity. The price of it is based on the scarcity and the underlying use of whatever it is you are ascribing value to and trying to spread or trying to get as much of this scarce thing that you can acquire. Now, I get that like with say dollars, like, yeah, it's inherently there's no it's not backed by gold anymore. It's based on the full faith and credit of the US government. But it's backed by the full faith and credit of the US government and the government issues certain amounts to keep the amount. There's a kind of system in place to kind of balance

scarcity and value and it is backed by an entity that is trust. That trust is not real. That trust could go away but it is a collective decision to do this. There's no equivalent for a cryptocurrency, right? There's no place that just like it could go to zero and there would be no one to print more or less or restrict the supply or anything like that. Well, I mean, the supply is restricted. Like, the code works in a certain way and it restricts the supply. Think about diamonds. De Beers controls diamonds, essentially. So there's no shortage of diamonds. There's tons of diamonds. There's lots of diamonds. They're not worth anything, basically. The only reason they're worth anything is that there is one company that controls most of them and it parcels them out slowly onto the market.

The Bitcoin code essentially does just that. There is a fixed number all time of Bitcoins that will ever be issued. We're actually well past halfway. Most of them have been found. And over time, they get harder and harder. It gets harder and harder to mine them, which means you get less each time you save a block. But eventually they will all have been issued and there will be no more Bitcoins ever. Like if you compare them to diamonds, like we can make diamonds. So they'll never be the last diamond, but there will definitely be the last Bitcoin. Right. Diamonds are a good comparison because there's I mean, I guess there are many kind of uses for diamonds that are intrinsic to the diamond, but the value of diamonds generally are rooted in a collective decision that we

like shiny things and expect people in the future to like shiny things. So in that sense, it's like, it is more like a shiny rock in the ground that we're trying to find. Yeah. And then there's stuff like Ethereum. So we're just talking about Bitcoin, which is in some ways sort of like the Stanley Steamer of cryptocurrency. It's like the first one and has a lot of weird oddities to it compared to what's been created since then, which is like Ethereum is almost a different thing in some ways. How does Ethereum work? It's still a blockchain. It's still a distributed ledger and it's still currently proof of work, which means it's still currently also consuming a lot of electricity like Bitcoin. But the idea with

Ethereum is that, you know, you can just trade Ethereum tokens like their currency, but you can also put software into the blockchain. So you can write code like computer code. And usually it's like smart contracts is what they're called. Little computer programs that say when certain things happen, certain other things, I will do other things. And you can put that into the blockchain and then no one can ever touch it again because the blockchain is immutable. Once you put something in it, can't be changed. So the example, a good example is Kickstarter. So a project will be like, we'll collect money from everybody. Kickstarter will collect money from everybody. This is literally, this example is from a video that I watched the other day because I was like,

what are smart contracts? But it's like Kickstarter takes in money and holds it until they have a certain amount. And once they have a certain amount. And once they have that certain amount, they release it to the project. And if they don't get that certain amount, they give the money back to the people who turned in money. You could do that in code. You could do that as a smart contract and put it in Ethereum. And then people who have Ethereum tokens can transfer them to a certain place.

And once that place, you know, the code is sitting there watching that place. And once it has enough tokens, it will release them to whoever wrote that code. So what you're talking about there is like, there's a kind of use case for the blockchain plus some kind of currency. So for example, like if let's say, you could buy a refundable airline ticket, and the money is automatically sent to the airline when your flight takes off, as opposed to if it gets canceled or something. Or like if you buy something from a store online, you pay for it the second that arrives,

not in advance and hope it comes. Like those kinds of, there's like, those are like little use cases for a cryptocurrency. Yeah, Ethereum is both the currency and the sort of machine that runs the use cases at the same time. The question though is like, do we need that? Does that solve a problem that anybody actually has?

Like, Kickstarter works fine. Right. People say, like, you know, life insurance. You could have a life insurance thing that pays out when somebody asserts that there's been a notarized death certificate. But again, like. We do that already. We do that already. It's fine.

Like, somebody has to already notarize the death certificate. Why add another step to it? Insurance companies work fine, basically. Right. Like that's the thing. So you mentioned, I think, the use case now, which is international cybercrime. Crime. Yeah. The Bitcoin leaves a record. It leaves a record in the blockchain. Right. It's traceable. Why is cryptocurrency such a good currency for crime? What we've been talking about, like here are all these use cases. The only reason to put them on a blockchain is if you don't trust any other human beings or human institutions. And who is that? That's criminals, like for the most part, right?

Right. Like you'd be a little worried if you did your international ransomware attack against the pipeline and then the money was sitting in like a Bank of America account. That'd be risky. Yeah. I mean, it's like the classic problem with why aren't there more kidnappings? Why isn't kidnapping a bigger business in most of the world? And it's because it's hard to collect the money, right? Like it's risky to collect the money. I think of every kidnapping movie you've ever seen. The big dramatic moment is when you've got to collect the drop or that's what like the whole heist is about is how do you get the money? Right. Like Mel Gibson actually in the movie Ransom would have probably loved Bitcoin because he could have said, like, I will release this. Yeah, this money. He used Ethereum. I will release it when I get my son back instead of having to go

to the news station and putting the money on a big table and saying you will never have this money. I mean, you could essentially build ransomware that is an Ethereum app that like is open source that the victim could go and look at and demonstrate to themselves that as soon as they put enough Ethereum in, they will get their key back. I hate that. Bad, bad future. Bad future. Yeah. And right now it's ransomware where like systems are getting hacked and stuff. And I keep wondering how long is it going to be before it's like actual kidnapping? Like there's no reason you couldn't do this with actual kidnapping. So that's terrifying. Great pivot to the future. What? Where do we go from here? Because, you know, because it is distributed, because it is not

controlled by government, it seems hard to regulate. You know, it has this huge environmental cost, especially Bitcoin. The transactional cost is vast compared to using a debit card. Yeah. And then on top of it has all these, you know, criminal applications. Like what, what do you see as happening next? Like what, what is the future of cryptocurrency? Uh, I have no idea. Like I've been paying attention to it since like 2012 and nothing I ever would have guessed

has come. I could never have guessed like how any of it's gone, which is why I'm still interested in it. Like I'm clearly very skeptical about it, but also I've been paying attention to this stuff for almost a decade and it remains fascinating constantly. So- Now let me ask you this. You've been paying attention to this very early.

Yeah. Had you put in $200? Don't ask me that question. You probably wouldn't be doing this podcast. I would own this podcast. I would own this podcast. I would own you and your house and everybody else on this call. I was aware of Bitcoin when it was well under a dollar. Wow.

The time that the guy bought a pizza for like 500 Bitcoin. Yeah, I remember that. What would have happened though? I consult myself by saying that what actually would have happened is I would have bought $5 worth of Bitcoin. At the time, you had to have like your own wallet and it was keyed and you know all the like lost wallets i would have just had a lost wallet that was worth a hundred million dollars and it would have tortured me i am not

someone who could keep track of a thumb drive for 10 years there's no way that story in the times about the guy with two guesses left for some exorbitant like eight or nine figure fortune that would have been me i will even that is chilling honestly better not to have that problem you're right absolutely right you're right on this question of the environmental cost like there's been some debate as to whether you know you you mentioned this that like fundamentally this is about creating some kind of a metric of use, like some sort of set of rules about using some resource, spending some resource to make the value of whatever the coin or the currency is made of.

Are there solutions to the environmental question that you see in creating kind of cryptocurrency that can work without, say, consuming the energy of the state of Delaware? So there are systems that use much less energy. So proof of stake is one. What I don't understand is whether a proof of stake system will be a speculation instrument in the same way that essentially Bitcoin is or that proof of work assets are. People generally look at it as like, well, that's kind of a downside, the fact that the value fluctuates a lot. But in some ways, it's the reason anybody's interested in them, right? People are invested in Bitcoin because there's a potential huge upside.

Right. If you switch to proof of stake and it flattens out that value graph, then I don't know if people are going to be interested in it. One of the interesting ideas is people have suggested that renewable energy, one of the problems with renewable energy is it's bursty. It's like spiky. So you get a lot of solar power in the daytime, in the desert, when not really anybody needs that power necessarily. You got to transfer it everywhere. It's like spiky. So you get a lot of solar power in the daytime, in the desert, when not really anybody needs that power necessarily. You got to transfer it everywhere. It's hard to do. One of the things that cryptocurrencies that consume energy could do is consume extra, like unneeded solar power or wind power at a time when there's a lot of it

and there's not much call for it. And effectively, by being a store of that value, by capturing that value in a way that doesn't require it to be transmitted somewhere or contained in a giant pumped water system or something else. They turn around and buy energy elsewhere on the planet. Yeah, that could basically subsidize all of that power, make that power cheaper overall by capturing the value of it when it's plentiful and then being able to distribute it out over time, which is an interesting point, at least. And then the other thing is basically, I don't think anybody knows for sure how much fossil fuels are being consumed to mine cryptocurrency. There's a lot of speculation. People have done estimates, but I don't think anybody really knows. People who are pro-cryptocurrency say it's mostly renewables already. People who are against it say it's literally all coal plants in China. And the truth is somewhere in between. And I don't think anybody knows actually where it is. It seems almost like

beside the point, though, because if you're mining with with power generated from renewable sources, you're using more renewables. If you're generating it from coal, you're using coal. But ultimately, as a society, we need to reduce the share of our energy from coal, but also just be more efficient. Like it's probably not a good idea to move from a dollar bill to the same equivalent in cryptocurrency if it takes vastly more energy to produce, even if a greater proportion is increasingly coming from renewables. Like why create a whole system that makes our entire economy vastly less efficient? Yeah, I mean, it comes down to whether you believe that the currency that's being generated

has a value or not. If you think it's doing good work in the world and it should exist, then we use energy for all kinds of dumb reasons. Why not this one? But if you think it's not solving any problems that are real and it's just an instrument for speculation for people to play the casino, then that's all just essentially wasted energy. What if I think one problem in our society is radiologists being able to access digital x-rays? And I want that shut down at a hospital. Seems like cryptocurrency is a great way to make that happen via ransomware. Exactly. I'm like, I'm sick of these. I'm sick of these

doctors being able to access their patients blood work without fear of a central European hacking group. I think that has to stop. I mean, money laundering is the other one. I don't know if we know how much money laundering is going on, but it's a dream for money launderers. A dream for money launderers, but really energy intensive cryptocurrency. Rusty Foster, thank you so much for your time. It was really good talking to you.

Really appreciate it. That was fun. We didn't even talk about NFTs. I know, I didn't get to NFTs. You know what? Honestly, I don't give a fuck about NFTs. I think it's stupid. To me, the money laundering is the really fun thing about NFTs. It's like, it's a great way to launder money. Right, right. It's like you can take a picture of the Mona Lisa, but the edges of the canvas are unique. Like, is it just is it just like a digital version of that?

Like, I don't know. I can't I can't get myself to care about about this stupid fucking thing i don't know am i wrong we're not we're still in it am i wrong about that uh there's there's no no not really there isn't really necessarily any reason for you to care cool but who knows like we could probably buy an nft today that's going to be worth 100 million dollars in 10 years and we'll both now i'm interested get back on the zoom and and kick ourselves for not doing it today. I'm interested. I'm interested. Now you've piqued my interest. Thank you so much to Rusty Foster for joining us. That was a great conversation. And if you want to hear more from him, check out his newsletter today in tabs. When we come back,

we'll end on a high note. And we're back. Because we all need it this week. Here it is, the high note. Hey, John, this is Sarah in Davenport, Iowa. And I was calling because this week, the city of Davenport called myself and the queer student organization that I work with at my Catholic college to receive the citywide LGBTQ pride proclamation. LGBTQ Pride Proclamation. And to top it all off, the Catholic universities that I work for have the good sense to publicize it on every one of their social media platforms to many, many likes. Love the show. Looking forward to going to some more live ones. Get back to it.

Bye. I love it. This is Georgia from Austin, Texas. And years ago, my daughter and son-in-law introduced me to Pod Save America and Crooked Media with a repeal and go F yourself T-shirt. And since then, I listen to you guys, well, daily. What a day. And you every weekend. Love ya. My high note this week is that I now get to share with the world the fact that that daughter and son-in-law are going to have a baby. And I'm going to be a grandma. And I'm so excited.

Love you guys. Hey, Luppet. This is Jonah from Brooklyn. something that made my year, basically, is that the country where my father lives overseas changed the COVID restrictions so I can actually go visit him for the first time in, like, two years. And that's a pretty great return to normal. Hi. I'm assuming this is Lovett.

In any event, you asked us to call with good things that happened to us this week. And my good thing is that I am 68 years old and I just got into community theater about three years ago. And I'm doing my first Shakespearean play. So it's a lot of fun. I just celebrated my 43rd anniversary with the best partner in the whole world. So happy Pride, everyone. And that's it.

Life is very good. Thank you. Bye-bye. Hey, everyone. And that's it. Life is very good. Thank you. Bye-bye. Hey, love it. This is Kelly in Oklahoma, and I have been waiting six months to make this call, and I'm going to try and get through it without crying. I work in health care, and I rounded out the entire shit year that was 2020 by getting diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma. I'm the same age as most of you and with a young family. I started chemo on January 6th and while I was sitting at the Cancer Institute and wrapping

my head around what was happening to me, I got to watch the complete and utter bullshit playing out at the Capitol. My life changed very, very quickly. In my before life, I listened to you while I was cleaning on Saturdays and I listened to Erin and Alyssa and the ladies while I did my weekly grocery shopping, and Tommy and Ben and Dr. Abdul Al-Sayed while walking the dog. And I listened to you and John and Dan and Tommy and everyone while at the gym. But for the last six months, I've been listening to all of you while I've been getting chemo. For the last six months, I've been listening to all of you while I've been getting chemo. Today, God willing, is my last day of chemotherapy. I have a scan on June 29th and will hopefully get a clean bill of health on June 30th. The last six months have been awful and I've published this on my very worst enemy. But all of you, including Akilah and Gideon who I listen to every morning have kept me informed

and made me laugh and reminded me that there are much much bigger things to worry about and to fight for so thank you to Crooked Media thank you to my rock star husband, my children and just everyone out there Thank you to everybody who submitted this week's high notes

if you want to leave us a message about something that gave you hope, you can call us at 213-262-4427. Thank you so much to Caitlin Olson, Rusty Foster, and everybody who called in. There are 507 days until the 2022 midterm election. Have a great weekend, everybody. Love It or Leave It is a Crooked Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett, and Lee Eisenberg. Jocelyn Kaufman, Poulavi Gunalan, and Peter Miller are our writers. Our associate producer is Brian Semel. Bill Lance is our editor, and Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Sure Sure. Thanks to our designers, Jesse McClain and Jamie Skeel, for creating and running all of our visuals,

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