Lovett or Leave It - The Grim Veeper

Episode Date: April 26, 2025

Lovett or Leave It returns to the beautiful Lincoln Theatre for a perfect night in our nation’s perfect capital. Pete Hegseth is in the barrel, Trump’s poll numbers are in the tubes, and JD Vance kills the pope — (cough) I’m sorry — kills the pope’s vibe. Congressman Ro Khanna joins to talk about defending democracy and finding courage. Jen Psaki and Eugene Daniels talk softballs and hard truths. Federal workers are off the leash and biting back at DOGE, and Lovett and his guests offer their thoughts and prayers to phrases that are no longer serving us.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

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That is upfront payment of $45 for three months five gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 per month new customer offer for first three months Only then full price plan options available taxes and fees extra see Mint Mobile for details. Great to be back. We got our asses handed to us. Well, we blew it. You blew it! Welcome to Love It or Leave It, live at the Lincoln Theatre, our nation's capital. Eight years ago, eight years ago, we did our first big live show on the road here at the

Lincoln Theatre. Was anybody here for that show? Huh. I actually think the fewer the better, in a sense. And I'll say to you what I said eight years ago. It is great to be back in DC for three days. We've got a great show for you tonight. Congressman Ro Khanna is here to talk about democracy

and the speech he gave about his fellow Yale Law School alum, J.D. Vance. Jen Psaki and Eugene Daniels are here to talk about softballs and hard truths. And if you are a federal worker, past or present, we'll be calling on you for some help later in the show and then we'll wrap it all up with a spin of the wheel. But first, let's get into it. What a week.

Even though Trump and his allies are more radical and prepared this time, even though the Republican Party is now fully captured by MAGA, even though this is our most dangerous moment in American politics in our lifetimes, there is a truth about Trump that has offered some measure of protection, true back in 2017, true today, and it is this, the kind of people who are eager to work for Donald Trump are fucking evil morons. And it is difficult to run any sort of operation when every person around the table is either stupid, vile, or both, because you can't trust your colleagues and your colleagues can't trust you. You're at the table. You're terrible. Which is why it was another week of widespread chaos in the

Trump administration with the mayhem epicenter located right where you'd want it to be, the Defense Department. It's 10 a.m. somewhere said Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, hands shaking, pouring a second cup of coffee. The New York Times reported that Hegseth had shared the same Yemen attack plans in another signal group chat that included his brother, his personal lawyer, and his wife. You fucking liberals. If he cheats on his wife, bad press. If he lovingly texts his wife classified strike details, bad press. The man can't win. Hegg says brother and lawyer both have jobs at the Pentagon but have no need to know the

flight schedules for forthcoming strikes on the Houthis. No need other than friendship. Name one other topic straight men can text each other about. You can't. Asked about the story at the White House Easter egg roll sponsored by Meta YouTube and Amazon. Hegseth lashed out at the media, of course. You know, what a big surprise that a bunch of a few leakers get fired and suddenly a bunch of hit pieces come out

From the same media that peddled the Russia hopes Won't give back their Pulitzers. They got Pulitzers for a bunch of lies. See this is what the media does They take anonymous sources from disgruntled former employees, and then they try to slash and burn people Not gonna work with me they try to slash and burn people and ruin their reputation. Not gonna work with me. Alright, Pied Heg said, yeah you can't use this second example of mishandling classified information to detract from my sterling reputation as a twice-divorce, abusive, hard-drinking weekend Fox News anchor who ran two veterans organizations into the ground, you won't take my name. Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life!

Daniel Day-Lewis in the crucible. The Pentagon's former chief spokesman, John Uliot, who quit last weekend and is not anonymous, wrote in a Sunday Politico op-ed that under his self-described friend, Pete Hegseth, the Pentagon had seen a month of total chaos suggesting Trump replace this bizarro Secretary Pete and fast. Earlier this week, Politico also published a report on the bitter feuds that have quickly formed within Hegseth's inner circle. There's one specific anecdote I'd like to share from that piece. Apparently, well at a high level meeting, this is real and genuine reporting, Joe Casper,

Hexsets outgoing chief of staff, asks his fellow attendees, can I just tell everyone around this table that I just took an enormous shit right before coming in here. And the stall was fresh out of Pentagon Papers. You catch my meaning. This is real. According to one of the two people who confirmed the story to Politico, people were like, what? This is a business meeting. But how else are you supposed to start a meeting in the situation room?

I want you to know something. I cut that joke. And then the author of that joke said, what happened in the situation room? And I said, I cut it. And she said, I think you should put it back in. And I did on her behalf. That writer, Sarah Lazarus, her mother is in this audience.

And I hope you're feeling good. Her mother is in this audience. audience cheers And I hope you're feeling proud. Anyway, this would be a crazy energy for me to bring to a work meeting. And my meetings are about whether Deborah Messing would be down to play a game called Would You Fuck This Jewish Holiday? Look, we all want to tell our colleagues about our poops.

But we show restraint. We keep it profesh. You save that for the one friend. The friend with whom you talk about your poops. And there's two kinds of people in this audience. People who know what I'm talking about and fucking Puritan freaks. if you have that friend. Applause if you never talk about your poops. Applause if you're a fucking liar. Kazma reportedly denied the story about his big work dump, claiming it was a joke taken

out of context. Yeah, man, totally. It's a real smear campaign. Also, I'm sorry to say, according to military experts, whoever denied it, in fact, supplied it. White House Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt, no relation, defended Hegseth. The president stands strongly behind Secretary Hegseth, who is doing a phenomenal job leading the Pentagon.

And this is what happens when the entire Pentagon is working against you and working against the monumental change that you are trying to implement. Sorry, you may not have been following that argument. The entire military hates him. And that's good. The entire Pentagon is against him. Complimentary. But the entire Pentagon is against him.

Derogatory. How is that an argument for him? No, you don't understand. The entire fucking Pentagon hates the secretary of defense, which is good. Yeah, we like it. The story renewed calls for Hegsett to be fired from Democrats and, as of this recording, one lone House Republican. Hegsett, seemingly growing desperate and paranoid,

said he'd investigate leaks on Fox and Friends. When that evidence is gathered sufficiently, and this has all happened very quickly, it will be handed over to DOJ, and those people will be prosecuted if necessary. The public threats against my subordinates will continue until morale improves. And speaking of public threats, on Thursday Trump announced that he would sit down for an interview with journalists including signal group chat

member Jeffrey Goldberg. Actually, Jeff was one of the first guests on this show when we came to DC eight years ago. Feeling nostalgic? What is it like to be in one awful moment nostalgic for for a previous, slightly less awful moment? The Germans probably have a word for it. Jeffrey Goldberg is either having the professional year of his life or this is how they lure him onto the plane to El Salvador. Either way, good luck, Jeff.

Rode Trump on true social later today I will be meeting with of all people Jeffrey Goldberg the editor of the Atlantic and the person responsible for many fictional stories about me including the made-up hoax on suckers and losers and signal gate something he was somewhat more successful with. Fuck that's funny that's fine. What an incredible way to introduce someone. Imagine I say, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my next guest, Ro Khanna, of all people. It's just a funny and insulting way to welcome someone.

For those of you who don't remember, back in 2020, Goldberg wrote the story reporting that Trump called Americans who died at war suckers and losers, which is crazy because that just doesn't sound like him. Trump continued, I am doing this interview out of curiosity and as a competition with myself just to see if it's possible for the Atlantic to be truthful. What a beautiful message. We are all only in competition with ourselves. As Trump often says, comparison is the thief of joy.

So wise. Our big wise boy. The literal and figurative shit stirring hasn't been contained to the Pentagon. Ketamine cautionary tale Elon Musk and history's worst gay Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent were reportedly shouting at each other about IRS leadership in the West Wing last week. I mean whatever. Wake me up when Elon bites someone. That's what I need to hear now. But what pushed genteel homosexual Scott Bessent over the edge? Sources told Axios it's because he quote can't stand Musk and that while he's largely kept his cool he has his limits

and he can roar. God, Katy Perry not now. She can't read the room anymore. Musk has said he'll be stepping back from Doge and when asked about Musk on Wednesday Trump spoke of his accomplishments in the past tense. But he's a brilliant guy and he was a tremendous help both in the campaign and in what he's done with Doge. One day you're doing the Nazi salute the next day you're doing the Nazi salute, the next day you're getting the Nazi boot. It is, it's a tough town.

Tough town. That's politics. It makes sense that there's tension, conflicting and confusing White House messages have caused turmoil and panic in global markets. Trump said that the US and China were actively negotiating a trade deal, but Scott Besson apparently told a group of reporters on Thursday morning that China and the US are not even speaking yet. We're not even in the talking stage. We're never going to fuck at this rate. And after the CEOs of Target, Walmart, and Home Depot, the gay, straight, and lesbian of big box retailers, privately warned Trump that his tariffs could disrupt supply chains and leave store shelves

bare. The president said Tuesday that he'd be willing to substantially bring down his 145% tariff on China. So now the waiting game with China continues. Famously a country you want to try to wait out. Look, we have leverage, China's leverage, we have power, China's power, but you can't wait them out. Have you read a book? Have you seen how long their dynasties are? We have we have many strengths as a country,

but patience and discipline are not high on the list. And that's true when our president isn't one of those kids that eats the marshmallow the moment the scientists puts it down. Trump ate the marshmallow before he even heard about the possibility of a second marshmallow. And of course the administration's non-stop chaos and cruelty in our immigration system continues. This week four House Democrats travel to El Salvador to advocate for Kilmar Obrego Garcia's release from CCOT. And this just in. Next week, four more House Democrats will head to El

Salvador to try and free them. Detained Columbia protester and legal permanent resident Mahmood Khalil missed the birth of his first child after ICE denied a request for his temporary release even though he had not been charged with a crime. The only difference between Mahmoud Khalil and fellow legal immigrant Elon Musk is that Musk misses his children's births on purpose. Democratic lawmakers went to Louisiana to visit Khalil and Rumeza Ozturk, a student who was detained after writing an op-ed critical of the war in Gaza in a college newspaper.

This even had MAGA acolyte Charlie Kirk feeling conflicted. We run a little bit of a problem if we are going to say that the criteria to get your visa revoked is writing an op-ed. Don't dare, don't, I put those hands down. Put those, fuck, you'd be a fucking more expensive date. Unbelievable. Charlie Kirk, welcome to the resistance. Everybody who started applauding, I want you to think about what you did. Last month, the Trump administration ended part of a $200 million contract

that funded attorneys for unaccompanied migrant children. As a result, an increasing number of children and toddlers are representing themselves in immigration court. And don't tell them I said this, but they fucking suck at it. Without lawyers, the children are more likely to be deported to the Salvadoran prison for children CTA-Tot. Yeah, boo it, boo it, boo it, boo it. It's a dark time. All the chaos and mismanagement has caused Trump's disapproval rating to climb to 59%.

His numbers, yes, his numbers on immigration once his strongest issue have plummeted. In a recent poll, Americans said almost two to one that a Briegel Garcia should be returned. Only about a quarter believe the Trump administration's claim that he's in MS-13, which isn't too many more than the share of Americans who believe that the COVID vaccine was a scheme to install trackers in our arms. And let's face it, a lot of overlap in that Venn diagram. Trump has even lost ground with the boys. According to new polling out of Harvard,

59% of young men said they disapprove of Trump's job performance as well. But Trump is still doing incredible numbers if you restrict the polling to young men who are currently doing a mass shooting. I've said this before, I'll say it again. I am not going to meet you. You are going to meet me.

Doesn't have to be today. Home and Security Secretary Kristi Noem's bag was stolen from Capitol Burger. What are you applauding? What is that? What is that? She had to file a police report. She was having dinner with her family. Authorities have asked the public to be on the lookout for a bag made from between 100 and 102 Dalmatians.

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! The bag contained Nome's passport, DHS access badge, apartment keys, medication, and $3,000 in cash. Also a little box marked dog bullets. It's troubling. Asked why Noam had so much cash in her purse, a DHS spokesman said, her entire

family was in town including her children and grandchildren. She was using the withdrawal to treat her family to dinner activities and Easter gifts. What kind of activities? Free-basing? $3,000 in cash? Come on kids, parking lot nitrous on grandma. Go nuts, he has risen. But one person who hasn't risen is the Pope. Yet. Yet. Gotta be tough to do what I do to say these things. Pope Francis died on Monday at age 88.

Niagara officials say the barrel and GoPro were found not far from the falls basin, but still no sign of the Pope's body. In fact, the Pope died doing what he loved, ripping self-professed Christian politicians a new one for failing to actually live up to the precepts of Christianity. On Easter Sunday, the day before his death, the Pope met with Vice President Just Dug the Pope's Grave Vance at the Vatican. Said Pope Francis that says a real picture said Pope Francis hey I asked for the angel of death, not the angel of pit sweat.

Later that day in his Easter speech, the Pope said, how much contempt is stirred up at times toward the vulnerable, the marginalized, and migrants? Continued the Pope, also, he's hard to talk to. After a brief silence, he asked if I liked working here. On Monday, Trump spoke from the White House to honor the late Pontiff while flanked by Melania and, of course, the Easter Bunny. I just signed an executive order putting the flags of our country, all of them, all federal flags and state flags at half mast in honor of Pope Francis. So he was a good man, worked hard.

He loved the world and it's an honor to do that. What is more fantastical? A magical bunny the size of a person that gives little children treats or that Donald Trump has a wife. This feels more plausible. Look, we have bigger fish to fry, I know this, but A, there are 1.4 billion Catholics on Earth. Get the fucking Easter bunny off the balcony. B, it's half staff. Masts are on boats.

Does he think he's on a boat? It would explain why he always stands like this. And C, no, you don't order state flags to fly at half staff. You can't do that. Your order doesn't do that because it's copied and pasted from the text in previous orders. And you don't control what happens on private or state property. He can't help but do a tiny bit of fascism during the death of the fucking pope. I'm doing fine.

Finally, speaking of feeling like someone is shooting lasers in my eyes, scientists claim they have discovered a new, never-before-seen color by shooting lasers at people's eyes. Scientists say the color, which they call OLO, resembles a very saturated shade of neon aqua sort of like this color. The handful of test subjects who were lucky enough to see the new color describe it as please stop, I see it, I see it, please I am a pilot, my eyes are my livelihood. Said another test subject, it was the most beautiful color I've ever seen, I'm so glad I saw it before completely going blind forever. Maybe some of this science should be shut down.

We come back Congressman Ro Khanna. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. Love It or Leave It brought to you by Aura Frames. The number one thing your mom wants from you is to call her. This Mother's Day you can give her a call of course and give her an Aura frames the number one thing your mom wants from you is to call her this Mother's Day You can give her a call of course and give her an aura digital picture frame Add unlimited photos and videos and invite as many people as you want to a frame There are absolutely no hidden fees or subscriptions

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Terms and conditions apply. And we're back! Congress is currently on a two-week break, but my next guest never quits. It's California's own Congressman Ro Khanna. Good to see you. Thanks for being here. Hi, Congressman. That was a pretty good monologue. It was pretty good. Thanks for saying that. It gets better and better. Yeah, it sure does.

It sure does. All right. You gave, I want to talk to you about a variety of things, but when I saw this speech you gave at Yale two weeks ago at your alma mater Yale Law School a school where I was waitlisted Williams isn't that bad well I also was waitlisted at Yale for undergrad and then again and they're not many Williams grads doing crazy stuff in the Trump administration so you have that going for you well actually I can't we can talk about it

after I got But you gave this powerful speech and it struck me because it didn't sound like a political speech we would hear today. It sounded like you were reaching for something bigger. You said, today great anger grips the public from this disquiet rises not a call to reform but to dismantle, to cast off the judges in their robes, the scholars in their gowns, and the press with its inconvenient questions. It stirred my speechwriter's heart. I used to have a serious job.

What was the goal of the speech? The goal of the speech was to show how dangerous the thinking is of what Vance and Trump are saying. I mean, it may sound glib for them to call universities the enemy, but this is the rhetoric that was used in the Chinese Cultural Revolution to go after intellectuals.

This is the rhetoric used by authoritarians in Stalin's time to go after intellectuals. And the university is the place of freedom of thought, freedom of ideas, alternatives. And so it was to put that in context, and then it was to put into context how dangerous it is for them to be talking about going after the courts, defying the courts.

And one of my favorite speeches, Lincoln's Lyceum Address, which I quote extensively in there, I mean, Lincoln is grappling with this huge issue about how do you make change at the time of the Civil War. And even he says you don't just reject the entire judiciary, you fight for equality through a constitutional system. And it seems like one of the goals of the speech is to take on the specific way in which J.D. Vance is what I would describe as being an intellectual Zamboni for Trump.

Sort of coming behind him and sort of smoothing out, making it make sense. He's trying his best. Trying his best. But you see him really committed to that project. You two went back and forth on social media where he was trying to do this. It culminated in him expressing himself, I think, very thoughtfully by saying about Congressman Kana, quote, you disgust me. Called me whiny too.

He called you whiny. Here's what you said in the speech in a more serious way in response to Vance, that Vance is as likely to destroy the life of an innocent man as he is to punish the guilty and he does not seem to care. JD Vance, your cold indifference to the lives of vulnerable immigrants mocks every principle that this law school was built to uphold. Your affiliation with this law school is now a stain on the degree of every Yale graduate. I hope Yale-ese alumni, student, faculty, and administrators will have the moral clarity to say so plainly. Nice.

So you're hoping they'll say so plainly. We've seen Columbia fail to stand up. We found it was very heartening to see that Harvard decided to stand up, but then we learned last week that they were in negotiations with the administration. And we don't know what was going to come of that, but it wasn't until they received that letter that they decided to go public. What did you hear from administrators on that campus? What are you hearing about this effort to kind of give these universities a little bit of confidence?

Well, President Garber, I thought, showed a lot of courage, I mean, from Harvard. Before that, the question is, you know, what are they reluctant to fight about, right? I mean, it's the endowment. And look, in fairness, university presidents, if you talk to them, the last thing they want is to have the endowment less than when they took office.

That's kind of their metric. So sad. And this is- What a hard problem. You know, but when you have $50 billion, you can take some risks for the very principle of freedom of thought and freedom of expression. And by the way, there are probably a lot of people who are going to give you money for standing up for that. So it may not actually

hurt your bottom line. But you look at Kingman Brewster, you look at James, he was at Yale when he stood up for freedom of speech during the Vietnam protests. You look at James Conant who was at Harvard and stood up during McCarthyism. You look at Robert Hutchins who stood up for freedom of thought at University of Chicago. I mean there was a time where the people, the university presidents, people nerds like me remember are not based on the endowments. They're based on them standing up for the freedom of thought. And you know what's so sad about Vance? There are two things.

One, it's the rank hypocrisy. Right, I call them gatekeepers of privilege. They went to these schools. They will do anything, I guarantee you, for having their kids go to these schools. And yet, they attacked these schools at a total false populism. Right, it's good for me, but no one else,

you know, everyone else is, you don't wanna be affiliated with these universities, and they're attacking. I mean, if there's one thing that America should be proud of, it's our universities, from Rutgers to Princeton, from Yale to Ohio State, and they're attacking this. I mean, it is just you know it's not incompetence like your monologue it's like if you had people

Wow Wow okay all right you can unlock a different aversion if you'd like. It's where it's self-destruction like it's it's it's it. It's like if you wanted to destroy stuff, not just, I mean, if they were incompetent, it's one thing, it's like they want to destroy every possible thing that's working. Right. You couldn't come up with a better plan to undermine America from the inside than to make international students terrified of coming to our school, of making our schools, which have invited so much, I mean,

you represent Silicon Valley, like how much of the wealth in Silicon Valley has been generated by people coming to this country to study, then staying and sort of lending their brilliance to our country. It does seem as though part of what they felt, this is I think what one of Trump's sort of aspects of his feral genius is he sees weakness. And one of the weakness I think is the delta

between the highfalutin morals of these places and the actual day-to-day administration of these places. And the places where they don't uphold liberal values, where they do look the other way, when there are genuine ethical problems with how they're being run, with the way people are saddled with debt, with the fact that these schools there's that prestige is a limited resource and there's more and more students and no more spaces.

And it makes me worry. I think one of the reasons maybe you felt you needed to give this speech is we can't be sure that the kinds of people that are in the leadership at these schools now, schools built on bureaucracy, consensus, never been tested, are going to be the people that understand that this is a moment where they need to fight. I think that's very well said. I mean, see, you were a speechwriter. I had a serious job once, believe it or not. But I think you're absolutely right. I mean, This is a time that people are being tested about. Is it just about the prestige and the US news rankings, or are you actually going to stand up for values?

And are you going to stand up for freedom of thought and be willing to reform? Because some of the critiques about universities needing to do better, to have a diversity of political perspectives and thought, that's fine. But the answer to that is not to just tear everything down with rage. And that's why my view is that the response to Trumpism, I mean, I think David Brooks has this great point.

He says he asks the right questions, he just says all the wrong answers. Doesn't mean that we don't ask those questions. He's identifying problems in our society, and then the question is how are we going to respond to them. So you've described establishment Democrats as stale, and you told the Bakersfield Town Hall that when it comes to Democrats, the old guard isn't cutting it.

And you backstage gave me a list of seven names. Can you just say the seven worst Democrats that you told me about backstage? The ones you think just gotta go? Well, look, I think I give Dick Durbin a lot of credit, right? I mean, here he is, someone who has had a distinguished career, gracefully moving aside for a new generation. And I think you're going to have a new generation of people across the country, of different ideologies come out and have new ideas.

Do I think, you know, I don't want to go through the, I will say Schumer, I think, really disappointed a lot of people. I mean, that's, and didn't rise up to the moment. He was a phenomenally talented majority leader during Biden. Like he's really good at getting legislation done. But he's not meeting the moment right now in terms of what it's going to take to offer an alternative. So let's talk about the moment right now in terms of what it's going to take to offer an alternative. So let's talk about the moment. You outlined basically a series of steps that you thought Democrats could take right now. This was about challenging 30 Republicans that we can beat. This was also about stopping

this reconciliation bill. I'm curious, where are we right now in the effort to get three House Republicans to say no to the Trump reconciliation budget? I feel much more confident today than if we were having this conversation a month ago. And the reason is because of things like Cory Booker's speech, because of Chris Murphy, because of AOC and Bernie Sanders,

because of the town halls. There's a lot of energy out there. And so, specifically Bakersfield. I went there, I did a town hall. A thousand people showed up, right? And I don't have that, I'm not a household name like Bernie or AOC or Booker. The only time I'd been to Bakersfield was for good Indian food.

Right? I show up and... That joke kills in California. And look, David Valdello, it's two-thirds Medicaid patients are in his constituency. And then Bernie goes there, AOC goes there, Jimmy Gomez goes there. And just two days ago, David Valdello suddenly finds religion and he says, well, along with 11 Republicans, I'm not going to vote for any Medicaid cuts. So the organizing is having an impact.

And the second thing that's having an impact, other than these awful cuts for tax breaks, is that they're literally destroying the economy. I'll tell you the average Silicon Valley text I've gotten from people who voted for Trump. You know. Is it something like, goo goo gaga, I'm a big stupid baby? I'll summarize it this way. It's like in this country, for whatever reason, you can commit crimes and we'll forgive you. You can have affairs. You know, people will forgive you. You can do an insurrection, we'll forgive you, you can have affairs, you can, you know, people will forgive you, you can do an insurrection, we'll forgive you, but you can't go after people's money.

You can't go after people's money. And so these people are like, well, I thought I'd be making more money under Trump. I guess that's not true. Well, yeah, no, when you go after the courts and you threaten to fire Jerome Powell and you have irrational tariffs, that was predictable. But now you suddenly have people who have lost losing confidence in him. Now they're reluctant to say so because they think he's going to have retribution. But this is where we need to find the courage.

I mean, if you're having doubts, speak up. And this is the time I think that the pendulum can swing back and people are really waking up at his incompetence So as somebody You you have unflagging energy and boundless tanks we don't have enough time to have you weigh in on everything You'll have to get your own podcast for that But we do want to get your politician podcasts are the most boring thing. I know some people have tried... I mean, why would you want a politician who like 70% of the time is thinking, are they going to say

something that gets them into trouble? Not me, but on a podcast. It's just, just go on other people's podcasts. Say, don't do your own podcast. That's my view. Maybe I'll be, maybe I'll be like a dinosaur. Everyone will have their podcasts. I'm not having a podcast. No, I... Yeah, that's smart. Well, it just seems like if your goal is to get in front of people that aren't familiar with you, anyone who's downloading your podcast as a politician, you've already, in some sense, gotten. So you need to go elsewhere.

So stop doing the podcast. You know? I'm also like philosophically opposed. You know, there are all these technology things. You've got to doing the podcast. You know? I'm also like philosophically opposed. You know, there are all these technology things. You've got to control the medium. You need to talk to your followers. You need to have the ability to communicate in a way that isn't filtered by the media. No, that's not democracy.

Like the whole point is you should be filtered. You should be questioned. You should be challenged. You should be talking to people different than yourself So, you know just because Donald Trump has the model of truth social like he is destroying democracy This isn't to be imitated. It is to be rejected for alternative models. Yeah And on that note we do want to get your quick thoughts on a few pieces of news in a segment We're calling The More You Row.

All right. I'm going to give you a topic. In return, you give us your gut reaction. First up, the Pentagon is in chaos and only one Republican as of this recording, Don Bacon, has called for Pete Hegson's resignation. It's a fucking joke. Thoughts? Don Bacon is the chair of the Armed Services Committee for City and I'm on the ranking member and I'm really proud that he's actually had the guts to do that.

By the way, he's the only general, highest ranking general in Congress, and so he understands the stakes. But the fact that you don't have every national security Republican out there calling for his resignation just shows, I mean, like're, they're, they don't understand. They're losing their two things. There used to be the, they, they, they never were good on like, we care about people, poor people, and we want to build inclusion, inclusion. Their whole thing was like, we know how to make you money, and we know how to keep you safe. And they're, well now they don't know how to keep us safe because they're leaking war plans, and they don't know how to keep us safe because they're leaking war plans and they don't know how to make us money Like I think they're I think they're their parties in a lot of trouble

I'll be honest and say that I am surprised by just how low Marco Rubio has gone. I Am I I'd never have been a fan. He's always been very small Which me allows you to get lower under things and so forth between floorboards. But have you been surprised by how willing he has been to go along with this disgraceful, lawless crackdown on legal immigrants? You know what I've been surprised by? Like, there's not more ambition in the Republican Party. You know, like, I used to surprised by it, like there's not more ambition in the Republican Party. You know, like I used to criticize Joe Biden, I mean, on a socket and all the time.

I mean, and you did it partly out of belief. But like if you're a Republican, you know, I was cheering when Ted Cruz was like, I oppose the tariffs and I'm thinking, okay, Ted Cruz is thinking because he's such a calculating guy that maybe he can run for the nomination against JD Vance when these tariffs don't work out. And I was like, where is the ambition? Like, let's get a little more ambition in the Republican Party

so there are 15 people positioning themselves to run as opposed to just totally kissing up to Donald Trump who's going to be a failed president. It's not the lack of courage, it's the stupidity that is bewildering. JD Vance met with the Pope the... What's in that? The Pope died shortly after meeting with him. Coincidence?

You're not on your platform. Deal with it. Can't catch, you know, can't catch a break. I don't know. I mean, maybe, maybe you'll find religion. I don't know. Oh, I just, I have to say if, I don't know, like, like I was a deeply Christian Catholic and I met with the Pope he scolded me and then died I'd be I'd think about it I think about some

of my ideas in the shower at least on Sunday the president handed out Trump collectible trading cards to the children gathered at the White House lawn. Here he is, showing an adorable child a card with his Butler, Pennsylvania assassination attempt on it. Ro, are you going to collect them all? I don't even know what to say. Just unbelievable. With kids kids too. Trump is hosting a dinner for his biggest meme coin investors, have dinner with President

Trump and the dollar sign Trump community. The invitation said, according to the Times, let the president know how many Trump coins you own. Extraordinary corruption just out in the open. And I know people are like, oh, this is this Bitcoin or NFT things. No, this is not like some complicated technical issue. Let me just explain very simply what he's doing. It's like opening up a Swiss bank account where no one else knows whether someone's

depositing money, which is basically this coin and telling people, okay, come deposit money for me, buy my coin. That's what's going on. Like, if you're the prime minister of some other country or head of state, you'll be like, well, let's just buy some of this Trump coin, and when we meet him, we'll show it to him, and no one else will know.

And it's really just the most blatant corruption. It's unbelievable to me that you don't have anyone speaking out about it. And it's all garbled with all this techno babble that means nothing. It's just pure corruption. Yeah. So what do we do, you think? How do we stop it? We stop it first by speaking out. Look, I get that people are upset with members of Congress and senators saying, we haven't

done enough. And I also get that for the first month, collectively, we should have, you know, it took us a while to find our voice. I do think we're finding it. But this country, you know, we don't have congressional sovereignty in this country, we don't have executive sovereignty, we don't have judicial sovereignty, we have something called popular sovereignty. That means it's not just 212 House members and 47 senators,

it's our law firms, it's our universities, it's banks, it's technology leaders, it's people. We all need to start to speak up. And there are too many people in this country who are afraid. And they're afraid and they're thinking, he's at 45 percent, Democrats are going to win back the House, Democrats will win back the presidency. Let's just keep quiet. Let's not have him go after us. Let's keep making our six million per year partner profits and let's just ride out these four years. That's what's going on. So you can blame members of Congress and I agree we got to step up our game,

but so does every American citizen who's concerned about democracy. That's a great place to leave it. Congressman Connors, thank you so much. You'll be back for the rant wheel. Yeah. Love it or leave it is brought to you by OneSkin. There are plenty of skin products out there promising to turn back time, but how do you know they actually work with OneSkin?

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I have found that I used to not do anything. I used to not wash my face. I just was terrible. And then all of a sudden I started making it a really nice part of my night. And I enjoy it almost like a video game that like tried to have better skin. It's like earning points on face skin. You know, and I'm trying to get as many points as I can. I'm trying to beat the record.

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workers who I know are in the audience. Let me hear you. And they wouldn't let me bring my t-shirt cannon even though it's perfectly safe. It's how I get dressed every morning. So instead, I'm going to do the most difficult thing of all, share the spotlight. In a segment we're calling Revenge of the Nerds. If you're a federal worker, especially a federal worker has been furloughed or fired and want to poke a little fun tonight, please raise your hand. We will not show you on camera. All right, let's bring the lights

up. I'm gonna come out there. I'm just gonna come out there. We'll do it like this. I'm going to come out there. I'm just going to come out there. We'll do it like this. Hi, hi, okay. All right. Raise your hand if you're a federal worker. Oh, here we go.

I'm coming over. I'll come right here. I'm going to go here first. West Virginia Republican senators sent a letter to RFK Jr. Monday, begging him to undo cuts to the agency that support coal miner health, along with a gorgeous basket of dead canaries. Nice. Who's up? Hi.

I'm coming in. I'm coming in. Hi. Much of the CDC's Injury and Violence Prevention Department was just cut, including teams responsible for tracking car crashes, head injuries, and drowning. Not the first Kennedy to try and hide car crashes and drownings. Hey, RFK. I'll come back with you. You want to do the next line?

Here, do the next line. Hey, RFK Jr. Chapa, quit it. Chapa, quit it. Here, you can do what's called in the business a tag. And all in the name of budget cuts. More like cheap-a-quit-ic. Nice! Yeah, hell yeah! Who's up next? Hi! Alright.

Said the head of one non-profit about RFK Junior's cuts, we will not know what is killing us and that is very scary. But also pretty obvious what's killing people. It's JD Vance. Nice. I want to come. I got to come. I'm coming over there.

Oh, hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. The FDA is reportedly planning to end most of its routine food safety inspections outsourcing the work to state and local governments. It makes me think the Book of the Jungle by Upton Sinclair because I just found a copy inside the cavity of my Costco chicken. What a strange thing to find in a Costco chicken. I'm coming through, I'm coming through, I'm coming through. Hi, hi, hi. Who's over here?

Oh, I need a Jewish federal worker, it's not a trap. Are you? You're Jewish? Jewish federal worker. All right, on Monday, citing the lack of lab support following staffing cuts, the FDA suspended quality testing for milk and other liquid dairy products.

Finally, milk will do to the goyim what's been doing to the Jews for thousands of years. Hell yeah. I need another federal worker. Said one dairy farm owner, I definitely had a bandaid on when I came in this morning. What happened to it? Oh, well.

I'm sorry about that one. Hi. Oh, so many people. All right. I'm coming over here. The National Science Foundation abruptly canceled more than 400 research awards, including but not limited to grants focused on DEI and disinformation.

Or did they? Who's over here? Hi, oh, like, alright. So many people accepted the Department of Transportation's resignation offer, part of DOJA's federal staffing cuts, that the agency is now begging employees not to leave. That'll show them. In unrelated news, could someone drive me to 12th New Jersey South after the show? We will need to stop at the dry cleaners near my house because he works there you can't tell the Department of Transportation employees to hit the road and expect them not to do it those guys love roads nice That's it. Good job, everybody. Thanks, everybody. Okay.

When we come back, Jen Psaki and Eugene Daniels is here. Okay. And we're back. My friends from inside the TV are here. Please welcome to the stage, from MSNBC's The Briefing with Jen Psaki. It's Jen Psaki. And from MSNBC, it's Eugene Daniels. My friends from inside the TV are here. Please welcome to the stage from MSNBC's The Briefing with Jen Psaki.

It's Jen Psaki from MSNBC's Upcoming The Weekend. It's Eugene Daniels. Hi. Good to see you. Hi. Come on in. Hi, everyone. Hello.

Hello. First of all, we're not going to insult you like Congressman Conner did. We discussed it backstage. We love you. I think he meant that I described the incompetence. I'm joking. Should we get him back out here to tell us what he called? He did a great job.

Every member of Congress can't flow with your humor, so I think we can give him a good round of applause. He was really good. He was really good. I love Ro Khanna. And genuinely, I said this to him, I wasn't sucking up. I was excited to talk to him about a range of things, but he gave an extraordinary speech about the Constitution and democracy, and everybody should take a moment to go read

it. They don't come along that way that often. All right. Jen. Yes. Such a dramatic. I love it. They don't come along that way that often. All right. Jen. Yes. Such a dramatic. I was worried it was one of these down here. I don't want to talk about the pope and what happened. No. I don't know. No. Correct. Correct. It's an open question. Something we'll have to get to the bottom of. Hearings in the House. That's something fun Democrats could say. If we went back to the House, we're holding hearings as to whether or not JD Vance killed the Pope.

Jen, yesterday we learned that you'll be taking over Rachel Maddow's primetime MSC NBC slot with your new show, The Briefing. She'll return to hosting on Mondays. Wow. Prime time every night and at such a fun time. You get to do the- This is prep.

I was thinking about this. Cause I am kind of a Jommies by 9.30 person. I don't know who's with me. And so I'm like, I'm really have to adjust to the whole timeline, but I'm here for it. Coffee at seven, I think. And plus it's gonna plus the news, and keeping up with every day covering what's going on.

Well, that's enough to keep you awake. That's its own sort of jolt of something. And Eugene, you also just joined MSNBC. You're gonna be co-hosting The Weeknd with Jonathan Capehart and Jackie Alamene. You and Jonathan. Thank you, yeah. You and Jonathan... Thank you, yeah. You and Jonathan will be the first openly gay black men

to host a major network news program. Is that because it's such a good time to be gay and black? It's never been a better time, baby. I appreciate you saying that, right. The other day someone said, I'm openly black and gay. And I was like, I am also openly black, I guess. It wasn't, it was less of a question from birth. Right.

I feel like if you're asking someone about being gay, the openly is implied. Right, right, correct. I now feel bad for the person who did that. I didn't say their name. I didn't say their name. I know. It's probably findable.

Don't find it. When news out of the Trump administration is this absurd and I think this brazenly terrible, is it a challenge to cover it in a way that doesn't feel like you're just sort of giving us what we want? What do you want? That's the good question. Let's shout it out. They want to wake up in a better world. I know. Don't we all?

First of all, I am a believer, as I know you are, and you are, that knowledge is power and empowering. And in this moment, when things are very scary and we don't have to deny that they are scary, we also need to understand exactly what is happening within the federal government. What dismantling is happening, what rights are being taken away, and what's happening out in states as well as the as states are being impacted. So the challenge is actually that with the challenge I found is that it is hard. An hour long show, it sounds long, it's 42 minutes actually. And when you're hosting a show, you think about,

how do I deliver to the audience and make it feel like we're adding value and insight and information back into the universe? And there's just not enough time in 42 minutes to talk about all of the massive shit shows that are happening right now. So that is actually the biggest challenge. But the way I think about it, I mean, you and we're all nerdy here.

Everybody here is nerdy, guys. You know? Proud nerds. Proud nerds. But what I also think is challenging about this moment is it's easy to lose the thread of stories, right? The Signal Gate story, which may sound like nobody in here thinks it doesn't matter, but

some people may think it doesn't matter. But here's the thing, how does anybody work in the national security space out here? Right? Thank you guys. You guys all know that anybody working in this space, if you have access to classified information, you literally can't bring in a watch, AirPods, anything into a classified space, a skiff, right? And there are so many means of sharing information. And if you're the Secretary of Defense, by the way, like Pete Hegseth, you have a bazillion ways you can have these conversations. But my point of what I'm saying here is we lost the thread of that for a couple of weeks until like there was new

reporting and we learned he's maybe building a makeup room or whatever's happening there. But it's important to follow these stories and the threads of them because if there's a hundred signal chains, that means all of that information could be accessible to adversaries around the world. It means people who are operatives around the information could be accessible to adversaries around the world. It means people who are operatives around the world could be at risk.

It means our military could be at risk. So the two challenges I've found are how do you fit everything in 42 minutes you can't and how do you keep following the thread of stories and get into the absolute weediest of weeds so people understand how all of this is impacting their lives around the country. Yeah it's a good answer. Whenever I go on Chris Hazer's show he asked me I get maybe two questions and it's always like it's bad news Chris we're out of time. I feel like I'm not built for it. I feel like I've become luxuriously comfortable to the endless amount of time I get during a podcast. Okay I'm gonna give shorter answers I'm sorry that to the endless amount of time I get during a podcast. Okay, I'm going to give shorter answers.

I'm sorry that was extremely long. No, that was great. I apologize. We have three hours now on the Saturday and Sunday. So if you need a little bit more time, you can play with us on Saturday and Sunday. I was pitching Eugene ideas backstage. He was like, okay, thank you. We can pre-tape Fridays, right?

Maybe. Maybe. We might have to pre-tape you, right? Maybe. Maybe. We might have to pre-tape you based on your colorful language. East Coast Saturday. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Eugene, you're the head of the White House Correspondence Association. How much does that job pay?

It seems like a fun job. It is shockingly cheap. It is zero dollars. It is shockingly cheap. It is zero dollars. It is a volunteer gig. The entire board is a volunteer board, nine members, working journalists who spend, they're probably, my phone's blowing up right now because we're always slacking and talking to each other about, you know, what we could be doing differently, what we should be doing, who's being blocked out of what now

is something that we're spending a lot of time dealing with, which is abnormal. You guys probably know that. You know that. That doesn't typically happen in White House. Yeah, well, it does seem like, I think in the same way, when people see what's happening in the world,

they want to yell at someone that will care, so they yell at the media. In the same way I think that's like a smaller microcosm of that because people see what's happening to the press corps and they want someone to be angry at and So they want to be angry at the White House Correspondence Association And I think there may be or there are I do think they're about criticisms But at the same time I would be interested to hear just sort of what of a tight spot You're in and what levers you actually have because it's just a group of journalists having conversations.

Yeah, it's a group of nerds like we are in here, who especially for the board, who just wanted to be problem solvers, right? You don't run for the board and give up all this time and give your life to do the things that we do because you just want power and you want to keep people out of the pool. That's not what folks are doing. So, the levers of power that people think we have

don't actually exist like we found out earlier over the last four months and the last decade is most of the things that have been a part of the way that the White House Correspondence Association has worked for years with different White Houses, whether it was the Obama White House, the Reagan White House, the Biden White House, it was all norms, right?

We didn't have us handling the pools and handling the logistics. It wasn't because there was a law passed by Congress to do that. It was because White houses knew and even the Trump White House from the first administration That the people that are being covered should not choose the people that are covering them And that is as far as we're concerned the most important issue that we're dealing with because do you want thank you guys? And it's and it's not because we like running into the Oval Office or going into the EEOB or

traveling on Air Force One, it's because the American people deserve to understand and to know that the people in that room are people who maybe have been on the beat for a while, understand the questions who are coming in and asking serious questions of the most powerful people in the country. And so when you don't have that, when the American people can't trust that, it's not just an issue for us, it's an issue for everybody. Do you think that there are ways in which the press could be banding together more to fight on behalf of the AP or Reuters or any other people Trump is going after? I mean, we signed a, the WHCA board put together this letter in support of the Associated Press

very early on, as soon as kind of all of this started happening. 39 other folks, members associations signed on to it, including people always surprised by this. So I like to bring it out. Fox News and Newsmax both signed on to the letter because they understand better than anyone is that while things might be rosy with one administration, if you have a Ro Khanna as president or Chris Murphy or an AOC, then they're very excited. Or Jen Psaki as president. Yeah, exactly. There's trouble. There's a letter AOC in here. Exactly. Then they're going to be kicked out, right?

And so the, we are a member association, we are a member board. And so we can't do things that our folks don't want to do. If you've ever tried to get 900 members and their bosses and their bosses, bosses, boss to kind of all agree on the same thing while making sure you're still able to do the coverage that you want to do and are paid to do, and the American people expect and deserve. It's a balancing act, and it's very difficult. But I think every single day, the board and members become the friends of the board, the folks that are our pool chairs, wake up and try to figure out, okay, what are the kinds

of problems we can solve to make sure that our folks are actually in the room, even if there are some other people in the room asking some different types of questions. Jen, I want to ask you about that. So diplomatic. You were- I've got a better answer. Well done.

You're very diplomatic, very diplomatic. Jen, you were White House press secretary. How much easier would your job have been if you could, if you need a quick break from using your brain, point to somebody who would ask a question like, how does Joe Biden seem so young every day? What's his secret?

Why is he so thin? Is he losing weight? That was a recent question, wasn't it? It was, it was. Yeah, it would have been a little different, I have to say. I would just add, I mean, I I have the White House Correspondents Association Can be a royal pain in the ass if you were in the White House. Yes, we are and I think this is important to understand

I have a point here. That's positive I promise this is important to understand because their job is to push every White House for more access The job of the press secretary and the press department and people working in the communications team is not to grant them access. Imagine if the press team was like, yes, you can have a daily press conference. That would be insane.

That's not their job either. But what you work together on, which is also important, is providing access in an efficient way to the American public. And yes, the press is pushing you, they don't always like what the president says, oftentimes they don't, but you work with them on a couple things

that are important to understand. One is the president goes to a war zone, right? You can't announce that publicly because there's a national security risk. You would go to Eugene and you'd say, the president is going to a war zone, we need to put together a pool, because you know why?

The American people should know what the president is doing in a war zone, but we can't announce it in advance. You have a trusting relationship with them to do that. There is a mass shooting of which, unfortunately, there are so many. This could happen on any domestic trip. You have a pool with you of the wire reporters

and national reporter, TV, radio, because any president prior to this one would want to speak to the American people and express love, support, resources, whatever is needed in that moment. The pool was created, I think by Eisenhower, forever ago, back in the day, Eisenhower. But it plays an important role. And when you have, I know that these absurd

questions, my favorite one that's happened recently is Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend, which is an important part of the story. The day that Zelensky was in the Oval Office and your friend Rubio was sinking into the couch. Yeah. In an embarrassed fashion. Oh, no. Oh, that. There was another Rubio couch story. I wasn't going there. Was it Rubio or someone else? No, that's Vance. That's Vance. Yeah, I'm sorry. Sorry. Now I just went there. Anyway, my point is, Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend asked Zelensky why he wasn't wearing a suit. This was after Zelensky had just been berated by the President of the United States and his country is at war and has been invaded by Russia.

That is not a question that would be asked by any pool reporter, including from Fox News and many other outlets that are conservative leaning, for sure. Well, also, God forbid we're in some kind of real emergency. And it's not the AP or Reuters or the Washington Post, New York Times with the president, but Joe fuckface from All America Radio, like we're fucked. Marjorie Taylor Green's boyfriend's name is not Joe Fuckface, just-

No, no, no, sorry. They look alike. They look alike. It's a different name. They all have that look. I don't know what his name is. I haven't called him Joe, you know, that word, because, you know, I would never do that.

I'm diplomatic, remember? Speaking of incredible comedy, we're here for the White House Correspondents' Dinner weekend. You got flack, the White House Correspondents' Association got flack for canceling Amber Ruffin. You got flack? You did, you got some flack. Now, my issue with it is that-

Okay, I'll see y'all after the show. How about that? It's a move to my face. Played football at Colorado State. Watch yourselves. I did. Don't let the nail polish in the hills fool you, baby. I played card football. My my issue with it is that a comedian brings a lot of attention

to journalists and journalism at a time when getting attention is hard will there be a comedian next year and you do know that I'm a straight shooter widely respected on both sides. It looks like the crowd wants you to you know know, we'll have to talk to Weezer. So next year Weezer Zhang of CBS will be the president, so I don't know what their plans are. Oh, passing the buck. I know, I know.

I can call her. We can FaceTime her. Put in a good word. But you know, what I will say about the decision to not have any comedian, right, is that it, we are, we, I feel like we have built a dinner that gets us kind of back to the center of why we started having the dinners, is to celebrate the students. We have more than 20 students who come across the country who get scholarships. Our award recipients who for the first time maybe ever are actually going to talk when

they get their awards and are just going to talk when they get their awards and are just going to kind of take a picture and walk off centering them and centering and celebrating the First Amendment. People feel beleaguered. Our press corps has been attacked over and over and over again. And frankly, guys, folks don't feel like things are funny, right? Do you think shit is real funny right now? I didn't think so.

Okay. so the, so the... I'm sorry, answer that question correctly. At this comedy show. Yeah, not here right this second. Very hilarious. But like in the world. And so like, and so we're trying to reflect, we're trying to reflect that and kind of, and kind of meet that moment. And you know, those are the kinds of... I'm out at you. That's fine. Hey, you show some goddamn respects in a tough spot.

I like Amber Ruffin a lot. I like Eugene a lot. All right, Trump is the problem. Yeah! Yeah! Eugene, you played- Out front. You played football- Raise your hand right now.

You played football at Colorado State. Now you knock the wind out of every passing gay guy with your fits. I was genuinely shocked to learn that you came out at 27. That shocks me because I see you as a person who is- Been gay the whole time, yeah. That shocks me because I see you as a person who is... Been gay the whole time, yeah. But flamboyantly confident and confidently flamboyant. I appreciate that. I like that.

Put that on my tombstone. What the fuck were you like when you were 26? So I thought... I thought I was doing a very good job, but I had a friend tell me that I saw a couple years ago after I come out. He was like, you know, what was really funny is you like finished playing football. I was the defensive end. We'd be in high school and you'd go to your car and then you'd like bump Danny De Cane

or Beyonce. And like, and so I wasn't doing a lot of hiding. I had girlfriends. I know everyone's talking about that too. I had girlfriends and all of that. But I think, you know, I hit 27 and frankly, Pulse happened. And I had this terrifying thought that my parents, my family would, I would die or something would happen

and they wouldn't know who I was. And so then I kind of made a decision that I was going to kick, as my husband likes to say, kick down the closet door and come out fully formed. Um... LAUGHTER Fully formed and never kind of be something else ever again. And what was I like?

I spent a lot of time thinking about, like, OK, if I look at my nails, you have to go like this, because you're like this, it's a girl. That's the way a woman do it, right? And if you can't put your hands on your hip this way, because now if it's popped, it's a little too gay. And so it was like, you spend so much time doing that. So when I came out, what I realized is I have so much room

in my head for the work. I have so much room in my head to just like be I have so much room in my head to just like be. And you're not focusing and trying to hide. That's what you can do. That's sweet. One for me. I love that answer so much. Beautiful.

One for me is that girls and gay guys hold books like this. Yes, yes. But straight men hold books at their sides. Exactly. Or the backpack. That's how I would hold a book. Exactly. And then I'd That's how I would hold a book. Exactly. And then I'd see if...

Or like the backpack, like you can't... it can't be like leaning down too far because, you know, it's too gay. You spend a lot of time doing that. A lot of rules. Yeah, the backpack, yeah. I don't know if it's still... I don't know what kids do. Do kids take backpacks now? I don't know. I don't know. It's all on the computer. It's AI now. Before we go, Jen, you stood at the White House podium and answered tough questions. Eugene, you asked tough questions.

To Jen. To Jen. And now look at you. Thick as thieves. But the Trump White House, not a fan of hard questions, which is why we want you both to blind rank these softball questions lobbed underhanded at the Trump White House not a fan of hard questions, which is why we want you both to blind rank these softball questions lobbed underhanded at the Trump White House in a segment we're calling the White House Softball Tournament. Five is of course a semi-firm cheddar while one is the softest crumbless goat cheese of

all. You're blind ranking. So you don't know how bad the questions will get do we know how many we have we have five we have five questions you can rate that one through five which one being the softest five being the toughest question is where will that be and you won't all right you're gonna blind rank them so you don't know these actual questions these are actual questions fun here let's see what's first so what does it say that the Democrats, while they couldn't stand for Americans or stand for victims,

they stood for war and clapped for war and clapped for five more years before? Wow, what a tough question for the White House press secretary. What does it say about Democrats are the fucking worst? War mongers. War mongers. I'm going to give it a four. I think that's right. Let's give it a four. There's more room to have softer. Yeah, there's room to grow. Yeah, I agree.

I agree. All right, so let's put a four up on the big board. We may regret this. Don't feel like you have to follow me. Next up. So, Secretary Hexette announced yesterday that army recruiting levels have reached 12 year highs in December, 15 year highs in January. What is making young people want to serve the military under the Trump administration

and how does that contrast to Biden's failure consistently to be recruiting average? Does DEI play a role? President Trump's going to have to deal with it. Is this the same guy? It is the same guy. It is the same guy. I think it is the same guy. It is indeed. It is indeed. Got to throw some DEI in there just because.

I used to love those people. I was like, man, I love those people. They didn't ask you those questions. They were harder questions for you. No, no. That guy would have been like, what would he have asked me? I had, we had plenty of these people. Laptop kind of thing.

He would have been like, why does Joe Biden hate the military and want, what would he have asked me? I had, we had plenty of these people. Laptop kind of thing. He would have been like, why does Joe Biden hate the military and want, what would he have said? I don't know. Isn't there some point where the question is either so easy or so hard? Like the question is so easy that your job is harder because you have to pretend you got asked a question and at a certain point a question is so hard,

you just disregard it and just basically can respond not to the substance but to the ridiculousness. Well, that's true. You can look for a thread of ridiculous sometimes. Although that one, I want to know what she said because was she like, thank you for your question. This is an incredible topic to discuss. Or what was said, I don't know.

It's literally impossible to find out. Okay. Literally, how do we, okay, how do we rank that one? I'm going to give that five. Yeah, me too. How many is that bad? I think there's more to come. There's more to come.

I think you're two savvy operators. Let's go to our next softball. Many of these organizations that are represented in this room have marked in lockstep on false narratives such as the Very Fine People hoax, the Covington smear, and now what's being called the Maryland man hoax. Now in an effort from the White House to expand access to new companies you've created this new media seat. So I'm wondering if you can comment on following this expansion you've had numerous outlets to disparage the

companies that you've had sit outlets disparage the companies that you've had sit here as well as the reporters. I'm wondering if you can comment on the unprofessional behavior as well as elaborate if there's any plans to expand access to new companies. Two. Two. Number two. All right, I'm going to give him a three because I'm like, what did you say?

Yeah, where's his suit? Where's your suit? Is that what you want to know? Why do they ask about his suit? Honestly, that's the new media seat. I want to use it, and I'm not going to wear a suit. I'm going to give it a 2, because he's talking shit about my people.

All right. I'm going to give it a 3. Well, you have to agree. We're only doing one rankings together. We have to agree. We can do a 3. No, it's fine. 2 and 1 half.

2.5. We can give it a 2. We'll give it a 2. It's all right. It's a 2. It's a 2. No, it's fine. Two and a half. Two point five. We can give it a two. We'll give it a two. It's a two. It's a two. All right. Next up.

My question is, do you think this latest incident with the president of Colombia is indicative of the global, powerful respect they have for President Trump moving forward, not only to engage in economic diplomacy with these countries, but also world peace. That is Mr. Glenn. That is who she was talking about. That's Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend. That's Mr. Glenn. Wow.

That's him in the flesh. Yeah, look, Mr. Glenn. It's all making sense. Trump is bringing about world peace care to comment. Yeah I know. There's a an old joke about the questions that Charlie Rose used to ask authors about their books before Kent. This is an old joke but the joke is like the before the whole Charlie Rose thing. Sorry it's just from the past. There are things from the past I can draw upon. But the question was, your book, why now?

It's a great question. I've used it. My journals, I had a journalism professor who said the best question to say, and then what happened? And then what happened? And then what happened? And people just keep talking forever. And then what happened? We like that.

Yeah, and then what happened? Yeah, free tip for everybody. For the boors out there. You can take that tip. I feel like the thing about that guy is he went home, and he was like, Marjorie, I crushed it today. Don't you think? You know what? I killed it in the briefing room.

I hope what happened is he walked through the door and before he could say anything, she was like, honey, you crushed it today. That's what you want. You text him, love you, XOXO heart heart emoji. I don't know. I hope so. I think that's a three. I feel like there's something big coming. Yeah, I do. Yeah, I don't trust love I hope so. I think that's a three. I feel like there's something big coming.

Yeah, I do. Yeah, I don't trust Levitt, so probably. Your instincts, I have to say, ma, perfect. Perfect. Finally, here's Lindell TV reporter Kara Castronova asking the hard-kidding questions about Trump's health. Oh, boy. Will you guys also consider releasing the president's

fitness plan? He actually looks healthier than ever before Healthier than he did eight years ago, and I'm sure everybody in this room could agree the president's fitness plan Donald Trump's fitness plan first of all that I was talking earlier about how you don't have enough time in 42 minutes and and his Segment I really wanted to do I'm a sports fan I was never a football player obviously but um was all of the people who are actually the height and weight that Donald Trump claims he is I wanted to do like a four minute read on this because there are enough people like where are you Patrick Mahomes because apparently you're the same size as Donald Trump. I think he's one of the people. So that's a one for me. It's

amazing. I love that question. It's incredible. What's your... How would you have answered that if someone asked you that about Joe Biden? Yeah. Or Obama. Well Eugene, thank you for your question. I would say the president is a healthy eater. He does like to exercise, and we have released, transparently, his full health report from his doctor who actually has a medical degree.

That's a great place to leave it. Let's see the rankings. Do we have the final rankings? She's still got it. Let's see the rankings. We have the final rankings. She still got it. She still got it. All right. Five. I'm nervously looking for the ranking.

Here we have the final rankings in five. I think you guys did a great job. What is Trump's recruitment secret? Four, why are Democrats such warmongers? Three, will Trump bring about world peace? Two, why are people giving me such a hard time? And one, how does Donald Trump say so sexy? What's his secret?

Jenny, Eugene, thank you so much. Stick around. Thank you. Starting May 6th, The Breathing with Jen Saki will air every Tuesday through Friday at nine on MSNBC. And beginning May 3rd, you can watch more of Eugene as co-host of MSNBC's The Weeknd on Saturdays and Sundays.

The sun never sets on these two. We'll be right back up with a sort of wheel. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. Love It or Leave It is brought to you by Haya. Typical children's vitamins are basically candy and disguised filled with sugar, unhealthy chemicals, and other gummy additives growing kids should not eat That's why Haya created a superpower chewable vitamin high as made with zero sugar and zero gummy additives

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join or die shirt. It's the classic join or die flag, but we've made it fucking gay as hell. You have one there? Oh cool. They're trying to separate the T from the LGB, and if they do that, we'll be SOL. I've used that joke before. So show your pride, grab a join or die t-shirt or a sticker from the Cricut store. The design is great. We have great design teams. Debbie did an amazing job with her team to do this. Head to Cricut.com slash store to shop. It's what our founding daddies would have wanted. All right. wanted. All right. All right, please welcome back to the stage Congressman Ro Khanna. Move my drink over. Right over here. Come on, man. Welcome back. Good to see you.

They were great. Yeah, they were good. And more polite. You were very polite. They gave you shit. I knew what you meant. Everyone uses the same four phrases and since all of us up here talk for a living we're gonna rip apart the one saying that irks us the most in a segment we're calling, it's giving rant wheel. Here's how it works. We're gonna spin the wheel. When it lands on you you're gonna talk about one phrase that you're saying we got a drop. We're not using it anymore. All right? Let's spin the wheel.

Oh, or there was a couple on there. Congressman, what phrase are you ready to retire? I want to retire when politicians say bipartisan and common sense. Bipartisan and common sense got us NAFTA, got us the war in Iraq, got us the Patriot Act and got us the disaster in Gaza. Time for that to go. Wow. Take that.

Take that. All right, they're gone. Bipartisan and common sense. Controversial. Let's spin it again. Oh. Okay, I have two words. It's not going to be popular, but I have a point.

I would like to retire authoritarianism and oligarchy because I think that's not how human beings speak. And I think we need different ways of describing what both of those things are. So I'd like to retire both of those words. Huh. I see there's some... That's interesting, but I I See people there's a debate about the word oligarchy as to whether or not it's a word Everybody knows or whether it's highfalutin elite talk But I'm in the oligarchy so I don't know As an outsider as a person not in the oligarchy, maybe I am I don't know who knows but oligarchy. Maybe I am. I don't know. Who knows? But I for one am a man of the people. Oligarchs don't admit they're in the oligarchy. My point is this. We should just say rich

people with too much access to power. You know what I mean? That's it. It is an oligarchy. But I say we all know in this room oligarchy. We use the words, right? But as we're inviting more people into the party and the operation here, I think we have to speak in normal speak. Okay. That's just my take. You can disagree, it's okay. This is a safe place of retiring phrases. I'm just taking it in. I'm listening, I'm learning, I'm growing. You were shaking your head, so I was like, oh. No, I was processing. Processing. Now we're in a fight. Let's spin it again.

Who's it going to be? I know who's next. It's racing for it. You know what I'm starting to hate? It's a word that we use as journalists a lot, embroiled. Oh, embroiled. Ooh, okay. I got some of the booers back.

I'm excited. Some people are protected, embroiled protectors. It doesn't mean anything. It's just we're like, they're embroiled in a scandal. They're embroiled in a scandal. They're embroiled in this. There's embroiled, it's embroiled in the Pentagon. We're all embroiled enough, move on,

figure out a different word, be more creative, our job is to use words, find other words to describe it. I think it's a really good point. I think there's certain words in journalism that basically it's when you don't want to Google something because embroiled leaves a lot of ambiguity as to when it began or when it will end who's responsible there's a lot of words like that how bad it is it doesn't take how bad right other words like that are

resurfaced and fueled fueled is fucking everywhere and it's like has fueled speculation. What? This is the speculation. This is the fuel. The article about the fueling speculation is the speculation and the fuel for further speculation. Something to think about. But I'm just a humble country oligarch. Well when you're an oligarch you're going to protect the word. I aspire to oligarchy honestly. This is America. Anyone can grow up to be an oligarch.

That's the American dream. One day you too could be riffed in the White House because you bought a meme coin. A lot to think about. One day you too could be riffing in the White House because you bought a meme coin. A lot to think about. Let's spin it one more time. Oh, I was waiting like it was a mystery again. Here's the word I would like to just retire from the Democratic lexicon. And it will sound as though I am directing it at one person, but I'm not.

Distraction. No more talking about distractions. And it's, there's too much overthinking about how to talk about politics. And it feels like it's trying to hearken back to an era when politics was a debate taking place among 500 people as opposed to a big, fractious debate taking place among millions of people. Jen and I, that's, I feel like we came up during politics at a time when you really wanted your politician on message because if they strayed and sent something interesting, the article wouldn't be about

the one thing you wanted to talk about that day. And so you didn't want distractions. You didn't want to be off message. But now you have to reach people and gain attention and be interesting across so many different media and so many different platforms. And whatever the story is that you're trying to drive if you just say the same thing over and over again you'll you're building a beautiful cathedral of message that's empty nobody's inside nobody's gonna see it nobody's gonna know anything about

what you're talking about and so especially when the the the media environment is so convoluted and when the midterm elections are two years away, we do not need to all collectively decide that because it's cost of living week or whatever the fuck, we're not going to talk about what's happening in our immigration system, or we're not going to talk about a Supreme Court case about LGBT fucking books or whatever other issue we have all collectively decided isn't kitchen table, as if fags don't eat in the kitchen. Can we get rid of kitchen table? I'd like to add kitchen table.

Correct, correct. Let's kill, you know what, we can keep going. Here's some others. Kitchen table issues. Here's another others. I'm going to write kitchen table. Kitchen table issues. Here's another phrase, pocketbook issues. Correct. Pocketbook? My grandmother had a pocketbook.

What about women's issues? Women's issues? Women's issues. Women's issues. All those issues are the same? Women care about all the things? Black issues. Yeah.

I think in the last, like, in the last two weeks, we've seen more and more polling about how people have shifted on immigration. And all of a sudden, what was a distraction two weeks ago, is suddenly a salient and important way to make people understand what we as Democrats are willing to fight for. And a lot of people didn't know what that was, and a lot of people still don't. And I'd like this, like, to see us fighting, even if it might not be the issue that we'll be talking about in November of 2026. I think that's okay. Enough with distractions. That's what I wanted to say about that. And I think that's a great place to leave it. I want to thank Congressman Ro Khanna. Thank you so much. I want to thank Jen Psaki. So awesome. I want to thank Eugene Daniels.

Everybody watch their show, support their show. We will see you next week at Dynasty Typewriter in LA. There are 556 days until the midterm elections. Have a great night and have a great weekend. If you're already scrolling endlessly, which we know you are, don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on Instagram, TikTok, and all the other ones for original content, community events and more. You can also find Love It or Leave It on YouTube for videos of your favorite segments and other YouTube exclusive content. And if you want to type our praises or rip us a new one, consider dropping us a review.

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