Lovett or Leave It - The Middle Finger on America's Right Hand

Episode Date: September 23, 2017

McCain says no to Graham-Cassidy. Trump and Kim give each other pet names. And Lawrence will not have the hammering. Melina Abdullah, Ed Helms, and Norman Lear join Jon to break down the week. Plus Norman rules on boomers v. millennials and we have some leaked audio you won't hear anywhere else.

You guys picked... Look, we've never had a bad love interleave-it. That's just a fact. But you guys picked a great night. Please allow me to introduce a legendary television producer, author of the memoir, Even This I Get to Experience, founder of People for the American Way and creator of iconic shows like All in the Family, The Jeffersons, Mod, and One Day at a Time, please welcome Norman Lear. Thank you.

Well, this is comfy. Thank you for being here. You are one of our only living legends, to say yes. Now, I want to start with something that is controversial and familiar to Love It or Leave It listeners. Now, there's been a debate about which generation is worse. Which generation is worse? Which generation is worse, the baby boomers or the millennials?

Now, I am biased. I am biased toward the millennials. We also have many baby boomer listeners who are angry at me for deriding their generation. You are from what I think we'd all agree is a better group, the greatest generation. That's bullshit. Well, we'll... I would say, yeah, I guess

you guys have your problems. We can get into that, too. Oh, yes. But which generation, if you had to choose, you're on an island. All right? It's baby boomers or millennials. That's where you have to choose, you're on an island, all right? It's baby boomers or millennials. That's where you have to choose generations, on islands. Some native is bound to come up to you and say,

which generation? I think they're both shitburgers. Okay. Okay. Well, that was tough to hear. Okay. Okay. Well, that was tough to hear. You know, I think we're the human of the species. Nothing changes. Nothing changes.

I remember when Tom Brokaw called me, I was in Vermont, a place in Vermont, and he was writing about the greatest generation, and he called it the greatest generation on the phone. And I couldn't believe, I didn't think it was a good title at all. I didn't think, because at that time you couldn't look at us, and certainly not now, and talk about any generation as the greatest generation. We've all made so many fucking mistakes. Fair enough. Well, I guess that in a way is hopeful. It is.

Yeah, that's where I get my hope every day. Well, that's reassuring too. We're not getting worse. So there's a fact. You obviously created All in the Family. There's something that blew me away, which speaks to the change that the country was going through at the time which is that the show Bewitched

and the show All in the Family were on at the same time. And I think that speaks to the incredible change that the country was going through at the time. The difference between the politics of those two shows is extraordinary. How do you think that moment of tumult and all the anger

and vitriol and anxiety that went into it, how much does it relate to what we're going through now? Or does it not compare to what was going on back then? I never thought I would live to see a Donald Trump. And we didn't have one then. And we haven't had one in between then and now. Not a DT. Not ADT. Not Donald Trump.

That's something very new. You know, I thought from the very beginning that he represented the middle finger of the American right hand. Hey, you just named the episode. You know, this is the kind of lead... What's that? You just named the episode.

Sure. Well, American people have every right to be frustrated in their emotionally crowded lives. Difficult being a human being in any generation. And leadership just sucks around this. You're looking at automobile companies and airbags and you've got the Takata situation and a hundred others like it.

If you look at pharmaceuticals, if you look at... Dwight David Eisenhower was a two-term Republican president. And the guy that led, I fought in World War II, he led World War II. He was the general, five-star general. And he warned us as he was leaving office about, be careful,

be warned of the growing military-industrial complex. And in his first draft, which I caught in his library, he called it the military-industrial-congressional complex, and I think it's choking us to death now, and I don't mean to be this serious. Let's stop it. No, you ended with a joke. It was perfect. You're good at this.

I've been doing it for a while. So speaking of leadership letting us down, a few months before the election, you said, I don't want to wake up in the morning without hope. I don't want to know that morning. So I think it'll all turn out okay.

But that mustn't make us complacent. I don't think there are enough Democratic leaders who are telling it like it is, like they think it is. Now, you were talking about Trump, but I think you were talking about larger forces in the party. What do you think the Democrats aren't saying? Well, they're not telling the truth about Donald Trump, what they think of Donald Trump.

Could we have a lot of Donald Trump voters here? You know, I... I mean, I... I don't know who would disagree with the man is unstable. Let's just stop there. Do you want... I have written to presidents, I don't know, since I'm 35 or 7 years old or something like that,

the first time, and said, we need a parent in the White House and I may be older than you certainly in later years I was able to write several presses and say I'm older than you but I need a parent in the White House

please be one and we haven't had that and we don't have any parental leadership anywhere that I can see. And we earned that. What do you think broke? I mean, you know, you've been trying to satirize and point to problems in the culture, whether it's in All in the Family or so many of the other shows that you've done.

or whether it's in All in the Family or so many of the other shows that you've done, what broke that made it possible for someone like Donald Trump to reach the highest office in the land? I think the absence of leadership. People just looking around and not knowing who to vote for. And this was a way of saying, screw you, this is the kind of leadership you give us, take him. You know? was a way of saying screw you this is the kind of leadership you give us take him you know that's I don't think I don't think there's a vast American public that's proud of this leader and oh how we'd like to be proud again when

I when the World War two was over I flew 32 missions World War II in B-17. When it was over. Thank you. And came back and my country developed a Marshall Plan to get Europe back on its feet. And we had

every right to think the world of our country. And we did. I often think the world of our country. And we did. I often think we were in love with America. People are patriotic today. We love, of course we love our country. But we were in love with it, partly because we were taking civics classes

in public schools. Civics, that means they were teaching us what the country was all about in terms of the promises it made vis-a-vis equal opportunity under the law, equal justice under the law. And we were in love with that. I mean, I, as a kid, just loved...

I was 12 years old. my father went to prison and I ran into on the radio a guy by the name of Father Coughlin, a priest who was a vicious anti-Semite, anti-Roosevelt Roosevelt kind of fawning over what he read was going on with this guy named Hitler and so forth and with my dad gone and everything else and learning that people didn't like me because I was born into you know to Jewish people I I would have been far more frightened had I not been taking a civics class and learning every day that my country was not it was birthed differently it didn't believe in that this these people were in effect against the law against the Constitution that was really encouraging.

So we're in the middle of this crisis. Trump is in the White House. What makes you hopeful right now about the country? Sitting here. It does? That was pandering. That was a pander, which I admire. But you know, when you pander well, pandering is okay. These people came here to listen to conversation. I mean, you know, so I did some television shows or something.

Nobody understands. Nobody comes here thinking, wow, unless they're interested, unless they really want to listen to something. I'm sorry I'm pumpering, because they're here to listen. But why wouldn't this be encouraging and hopeful? All right, I'm hopeful. And I'm in the hands

of the next generation here. We're doing okay. I mean, here, we're doing okay here. I have six children. Six children? Yeah. Ask me their ages.

How old are they? I wish you would. I'm so glad you asked me. 22 to 71. My oldest daughter, I have five daughters, the oldest is 71. I have twins who are 22. That's pretty good. They just got out of college. How do you wake up without hope with that? That's good. All right, we'll leave it there.

Before we bring out the rest of our panel, this is Love to Relieve It. We want to play one quick game with you. Now many people have compared Archie Bunker to Donald Trump. But they are different. And I know that you, having intimate familiarity with both of these characters, can suss out those... They're so intimate. ...can suss out the differences. And so this quiz, called Who Said It?

Called Who Said It? It's called Who Said It? And I'm going to read you a quote. It might be Donald Trump. It might be Archie Bunker. This was not prepped. Love this game. Are you ready for your first quote?

Ready for my first quote. California is full of nuts and fruits. Every fruit is a little nutty, my first quote. California is full of nuts and fruits. Every little, every fruit is a little nutty and every nut is a little fruity. That was Donald Trump. It was Archie Bunker.

It was Archie Bunker. You are 0 and 1. But there's still time to come back. It's a shitty line. Honestly, I had a little chuckle at my desk. As a fruit from California, I related to it. Next quote. You know, when it comes to racism and racists, I am the least racist person there is.

I have a great... Oh, I know that. All right, that's correct. Next quote. The U.S. of A. never stole nothing from nobody. The Mexicans was only too glad to give us Texas after we beat the hell out of them in a war. Archie Bunker.

Correct. One final quote. You're the one that needs an American history lesson. You don't know nothing about Lady Liberty standing there in the harbor with her torch on high screaming out to all the nations in the world, send me your poor, your deadbeats, your filthy, and all the nations send them here, they come swarming in like ants. That's Archie. That's correct. Guys give it up for Norman Lear, he's gonna hang out.

Norman is gonna stick around and be part of our panel, but allow me to bring out our other guest. She is a professor and chair of Pan-African Studies at Cal State LA and an organizer for Black Lives Matter. Please welcome Melina Abdullah. You know him from The Daily Show to The Office to some of my favorite movies. Guys, please welcome Ed Helms. Whoa! Whoa!

All right, guys. I mean, this is a murderer's row. Let's get into it. What a week. Today, John McCain came out against the Graham-Cassidy health care bill, which is pretty incredible. I feel as though the bill is pretty incredible. I feel as though the bill is almost dead,

but we've said that before, so it's important that, you know, look, they have almost passed a bill that had died several times before. Langston Kerman, friend of the pod, who's a guest on this show, said that they pump out shitty health care bills like Madea movies, which I thought... Madea movies.

Madea. All right. Madea. Thank you. As the black person on the panel. That was earned. So Graham-Cassidy is this bill to basically cut healthcare funding, turn Obamacare into a bunch of block grants, get rid of some protections for consumers, and throw it to the states,

who will suddenly be thrust into incredible chaos because there'd be less funding, and all of a sudden they're now administering this new program, something Rand Paul correctly points out, that even as this is a step backwards from Obamacare, it is, in the span of a few days, creating a brand new national health care program that nobody has thought through at all, which is completely fucking nuts. So what also happened this week is to try to get Lisa Murkowski's vote in the Senate, they made a special deal with Alaska. And basically the deal was Alaska could keep Obamacare. Yes, I heard a what.

Yes, it seems impossible that they would admit that their bill is so bad that in order to get a senator to go along with it, the thing that they get, their bribe, is Obamacare. I don't understand why that's confusing. It makes perfect sense. It's a very good deal. It would be a great deal for Alaska. The thing is, if they really wanted to help people,

they could make that deal with 50 states and 100 senators and pass nothing. Right. But they don't want to do that. What have you guys made of this healthcare debate, how it keeps coming back? How are we doing at a time when we're dealing with basically kind of government by sucker punch where we think something's dead and then all of a sudden it's like, ah, we're going to pass it tomorrow. I feel it goes along with the kind of leadership I was describing.

I mean, that's a blanket nothing. And nobody is standing up. I haven't even heard anybody knocking it, wrapping it. Yeah, selling it. It's hard for the Democrats. I mean, there's no strength there either. Well, yeah, I mean, I think, look, Democrats have at the very least now

a lot of Democrats, especially those considering running in 2020, did come out in favor of Medicare for All, which I think is a really cool and important step about the vision of the future of the party. Ed, one thing that also happened this week is Jimmy Kimmel kind of stepped into the fray and gave a policy-rich broadside against this bill.

And then all of these Republicans and people on TV turn around, and they don't attack his arguments. They attack Hollywood. They attack Hollywood. What did you make of that? Do you think Jimmy Kimmel got the best of this one? What do you think? Well, I do think that Jimmy Kimmel deserves all the ridicule he gets.

Just because he, as we all know, is a reprehensible human being with terrible values. And he represents all that's just morally bankrupt about Hollywood. Which is to say, he is my companion in that way.

No, but truthfully, I love Jimmy. And I think he's so sort of casually injecting reason into something that is so acrimonious and crazy and there's shouting and then Jimmy just kind of saunters up with his hands in his pockets and just says, hey, what about A, B, and C? And the staggering reasonableness of what he says just kind of ignites this blowback. And when you can't sort of fight on the merits, you start the ad hominem attacks and you just kind of go for creating context. I think something's gotten sort of lost in the health care uh debate in general i think bernie sanders to me kind of confused the issue a little bit with this universal health care is a right idea because health care is a service and it's kind of hard to say like this thing that someone else provides

you have a right to and yet but don't you have a right to it and yet... But don't you have a right to it? Well, here's the thing. Like, morally, people, because they're born, have a right to have their life protected and sustained? To me, it's a little bit... That language is going to shut down Republicans. But that's actually not true. The masses of Americans, when you talk about it in terms of Medicare for All, they're supportive of Medicare for all, they're supportive

of Medicare for all. And so I think that we're allowing ourselves to have someone else frame the argument. What is kind of tiring and exhausting and fatiguing for those of us on the left is the idea that we're constantly countering assaults rather than asserting something. So I think this Medicare for all conversation, the conversation around healthcare as a right, is something that gives us something to struggle for. I think I fully agree with all of that. I think there's a universal healthcare is such an obviously right thing to do, and we can do it, and therefore we should. How could you argue against that? And then it becomes this, I don't know,

that ideology of every man for himself, which baffles me. Yeah, I mean, I think the good news, though, is I think that the... You know, I see your point, too, that when we say... There's, I think, an unhelpful conversation around health care as a right. I think the most important point, too, that when we say, there's, I think, an unhelpful conversation around health care as a right. I think the most important thing, though, is that Democrats unite around a positive vision. And to me, what I see is sort of the Democratic Party

coalescing around basically a simple idea, which is every single American should have access to Medicare. And that runs the gamut from, if you want to keep your private you wanna keep your private insurance, keep your private insurance, but everybody gets a public option. Anybody who wants Medicare can get Medicare, which would mean these private companies,

if they wanna survive, they're gonna have to learn to compete on a level playing field against a public option, a not-for-profit option. To the Bernie, which I think is a great direction to go. And at the same time, there's the Bernie Sanders proposal, which is backed by a lot of other leading Democrats, that says everyone should get Medicare and we should transition to that and we should stop pretending that that's not where we should be and where we will have

to end up because these corporations that have been ensuring people have made it inefficient and played with people's lives for long enough. And I see the value and the vision there too. So I think it's like a good conversation to have. Melina, what do you think about this debate that Bernie Sanders is going to have with Graham Cassidy now that it seems like the bill is dead? Should we be making a case for the Affordable Care Act

or should we be making a case for single payer right Act, or should we be making a case for single-payer right now? I think that we should be forward-thinking, and I think that's what Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris, John Conyers, and others are doing. They're saying Obamacare, and if you remember when we passed Obamacare, there were lots of folks on the left saying, this doesn't go near far enough, right? left saying this doesn't go near far enough right and basically the whole health care reform debate they locked out the Medicare for all option which the majority of the American people favor the majority of the American people believe that health care is a human right even if you're not sick you have a right to preventive care it's just a basic human thing to do and

so I think that the Bernie Sanders effort gives us something again to rally for there's a whole lot so I went all into like well let's remember who Lindsey Graham is right let's remember I think that there's a lot of I like political gossip right there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff happening there's a lot of, I like political gossip, right? There's a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff happening. There's a lot of Republicans who want that shit to fail, right? Do you remember what Lindsey Graham said about Ted Cruz? Like, if somebody killed him on the floor of the Senate, nobody would testify, right? Okay, so let's move on to another development this week.

Okay, so let's move on to another development this week. On Tuesday, Donald Trump, obviously our representative in the world, spoke to the UN about Kim Jong-un. Donald Trump said, Donald Trump said Rocket Man is on a suicide mission he also threatened to totally destroy North Korea in response

Kim Jong-un said he is unfit to hold the prerogative of supreme command of a country so that's a that's a ding, that's a correct fuck a country. So that's a, that's a, that's a ding. That's a correct. Fuck. Donald Trump being president is like dating someone that if you weren't dating them, you'd make fun of them with your friends. That you're sitting across the table with this person,

and they say something asinine or annoying or ridiculous, and you think to yourself, if I wasn't with this person, this is the kind of person I fucking hate. Kim Jong-un. That's some interesting... You've had some toxic relationships, it sounds like. Maybe you break up with that person?

I'm not a therapist, but... It did not last. He ended up being indicted for colluding with Russia. Okay. Oh, stop. It's never going to happen. Pardon himself in a tweet. It's hard to impeach your significant other. That's true. That's never going to happen. Pardon himself in a tweet. It's hard to impeach your significant other. That's true.

That's true. Kim Jong-un went on to say something I do profoundly disagree with, which is, I will surely and definitely tame the mentally deranged U.S. dotter with fire, which introduced to many people the word dottered.

Melina, had you been from, would you dottered, was that a word on the tip of your tongue before this? No, but it's really appropriate when applied to Donald Trump. Yes. It's the exact right word. And as someone who has called him a dotty old racist for a very long time, I would just point out that this week I was plagiarized by both the fat Jew and Kim Jong-un.

The fat Jew is a Twitter thief. He's a Twitter thief. He's a Twitter thief. He steals jokes from people and he tweets them. And he made a lot of money doing this, which speaks to the decline in the culture we were referencing earlier. We learned today in reports

that internally at the White House, nobody wanted Trump to go to the UN and call him Rocket Man. Even a CIA profile of Kim assessed that he has a massive ego and reacts harshly and sometimes lethally to insults and perceived slights.

What are we going to do to convince Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un that they're in love with each other? I really think if they do get in the same room together, it'll be stars and ponies and rainbows. They are the same. There's something like they're sort of emotionally the same. There's a similarity. There's a deeply troubling similarity that might lead to the extinguishing of all life

on the planet. Or they just bring out the best in each other. Like it sort of cancels out all the sort of icky stuff and they just become these really benevolent leaders of their countries. I think he's right. Right? One way it could go for sure. Yeah, it's one way.

It could be the Crazy things have happened. Yeah. I think Ed is right. They bring out the best in each other, which represents the worst in the rest of us. That's right. That is a shame. That is a shame. Norman, you fought in the last war that used nuclear weapons.

How are you feeling? Well, you know, we didn't use nuclear weapons in the last war that used nuclear weapons. How do you feel? Well, you know, we didn't use nuclear weapons in the war. We used it as the exclamation point to that war. And I remember being in a multitude of conversations,Is still abroad who just hated what happened in Japan with the dropping of the hydrogen bomb.

And I think we're still I mean, you know, if we think about it and talk about it, we're ashamed of it. Okay. No joke there. Oh no, I think it's funny. Do you think it's funny. She thinks it's funny, Ed. This is very exciting for me, having you here.

That was fun, too. That was exciting. I don't know what to say about North Korea. The wrong people are in charge of both fucking places. What is there to say? I hope we don't die in a conflagration. I hope nobody dies in a conflagration. Any other comments on North Korea? You really went out on a limb there.

I mean, I'm not sure. Listen, I tell it like it is, and I'm not afraid to say things that people might disagree with. I hope that Donald Trump being president doesn't cause a nuclear fucking Holocaust. I think you should invite... What's the name of the basketball player

who's been a North Korea tenter? Dennis Rodman. Yes. Have him here. We should have him here we should have him here Mukta Norman has a guest idea and you can tell him no if you want but I'm not going to do it

has anybody talked to him? I don't know. Anybody in the media who's had a conversation with Rodman? Rodman? Yeah. I've never met the man. I remember him being an exciting personality when he played for a team. Yes.

Chicago. For Chicago. Yes. The Chicago Bulls. The Chicago Bulls. Some other Chicago Bulls. Chicago Bulls Some other Chicago Bulls Michael Jordan Scotty Pippen

Someone named Paxton Right? Sean? Bill It's not Bill Sons of bitches Come out here Make me look like a moron.

I just wanted to lighten the load. What are we going to do about North Korea? What, are we going to solve it here? I don't think so. I think we did. I think we did. What would happen if we made up our minds to solve it here?

I think we'd get... Let's just decide to do it. We might be here Until one or two in the morning We need somebody to take notes It's probably going to be something we've got to write up I don't think we can just riff I think we've got to put it down

I think we've got to get a note taker Could we at least not leave Until we have a strongly worded letter For Kim Jong For Trump or Kim? Both One each It could be the same letter have a strongly worded letter for Kim Jong. For Trump or Kim? Both. One each. It could be the same letter.

They won't know. They won't know. When we come back, a segment we call The Russia Stuff. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. We're back.

Now for a segment we call The Russia Stuff. It's very simple. We're going to spend two minutes talking about Russia because it's still happening and it's important, but there's not much we can do about it. We've got to stay focused on the things that are really going to affect people like healthcare and immigration, but there's a lot going on with the Russia stuff. So we got two minutes on the clock. I'm going to run through it and then throw it over to you guys. Are we ready? Go. This week, Manafort was threatened

with an indictment. Paul Manafort is absolutely fucked. It's just true. Every single way that a person... I mean, never has someone looked as guilty as they were. His suits look guilty of collusion. His suits look like a criminal's fucking suits. Ty Cobb, a name of a lawyer in this, impossibly, with a handlebar mustache, was caught by a New York Times reporter at a BLT steakhouse walking through all the details of everything,

including the fact that the White House Council has a safe with secret documents in it. That was exciting. The FBI was wiretapping Paul Manafort in 2014. The RNC has been using funds to pay more than $420,000 in legal fees for the Russia probe, including for Trump and his fucking idiot kids,

which I love because I hope those RNC donors are pretty fucking pleased. You are supporting the legal defense of Donald Trump, a supposed billionaire. Terrific. Facebook is turning over 3,000 ads to congressional committees, and today the government notified 21 states

that Russian hackers targeted their systems before last year's presidential election. The Russia stuff. I think something's wrong there. Norman thinks something's wrong there. Melina, where are you out on the Russia stuff? It feels like a movie. The one thing that I'm proud of is Howard University hired James Comey and the students shut him down when they tried to have him as the convocation speaker.

So today, I am very proud to be a graduate of Howard University and of the students there. Ed, the Russia stuff. Well, as a vessel for... Russia paid me to buy a lot of Facebook ads. Got it, got it, got it.

And so I've got a lot of cash on the line here, and I really hope this all just washes out. Yes! That's, you know... That's interesting about Comey and Howard. I didn't know that. Yeah, isn't that crazy? What was the logic for not having him?

What was the reason? Why do we not want Comey at Howard University? No, I mean, there's a lot of reasons it could be. Well, I mean, we don't want to legitimize the surveillance state. We don't want to legitimize it. So this whole Russia stuff, right? And in fact, the entire Trump presidency tries

to get us to believe that if you are not a card-carrying member of the Ku Klux Klan, of the neo-Nazis, then you're somehow on our side. Comey is not a friend of black people. Howard University is a historically black college. We don't want him there. He has no place there. And so the students were standing up for the legacy that is Howard

University, that is, you know, comes out of the Freedmen's Bureau, that is the struggle of Frederick Douglass. And they're saying, we're not going to sell ourselves out to any gradation of white supremacy. Okay. I thought it might be because he also, in addition, wrote a letter that elected Donald Trump, which was a real boneheaded move, I think. When we come back... Okay, stop. And we're back. Now for a segment called Okay Stop.

Here's how it works. We're going to roll a clip, and then we just say, okay, stop, and we stop it as it goes, and we talk about it. This week, protests and police have been filling the streets in St. Louis following the acquittal of a white police officer who shot and killed a black suspect in 2011. The victim, Anthony Lamar Smith, was in a car chase that lasted three minutes. At one point, the officer, Jason Stockley, was recorded on tape saying, we're going to kill this motherfucker. Don't you know it? Here's a clip from Fox News covering

the protest with NRA spokesperson Dana Lush. Let's roll the clip. I hope the police are able to be empowered to protect their city. They seem to be. They seem to be much more organized. But I was speaking with Dave Glover, who's on my affiliate, KFTK, I think you're familiar with. He says he fears a lot for tomorrow. He says there's going to be a huge... Brian Kilmeade's eyes are a little beady.

That's true. I hate to beady eye shame, but... Look, let me add something. This whole notion that police have to be empowered to protect their cities, right? That's the okay stop, right? Police, especially in places like St. Louis, but also places that seem to be liberal like Los Angeles where they kill more people than any other city in the country, right? Police are over-empowered. If we think about what was said, Stockley, this is not just murder, it's premeditated murder, followed by a cover-up because what you didn't say is he tried to plant a gun and got caught, right?

say is he tried to plant a gun and got caught, right? So the notion that we need to empower this kind of behavior is hugely problematic and something that we should all be up in arms about. So there should be protests in the street. Concert on Saturday and Ed Sheeran on Sunday. And with those big crowds and all the cameras, they feel as though they're organized enough online and they're coming from out of state they talk to people from South Carolina he thinks the worst is yet to come if not tonight over the weekend it could very well happen it would be a great opportunity for them to get more media attention and look here's the thing shutting down okay stop well you know what do you make of this argument

that this is just a bunch of people trying to get media attention? I'm sorry. Why is there an NRA person just being handed media attention as a premise of this whole piece? Well, it's interesting, right, that they would decide that she's the right person

to comment. It's Fox. Oh, that's would decide that she's the right person to comment. It's Fox. Oh, that's right. It's because it's on Fox News. That's right, that's right. Right. Actually, I don't think she's necessarily completely wrong, right? Part of the purposes of protest is to raise the issue, right?

How do we raise issues? Yeah, we want to be out in the streets. We want to educate our immediate community. And we want everybody to know about it. We wouldn't be talking about it right now if there weren't media attention, right? And so, yeah, that's important to get media attention. She's like, I miss the good old days

when the protesters were white and they hoped nobody saw. Right. What the fuck are you talking about? I'm really curious. There's so many people who are busting from out of town. And Brian, you know this. You and I talked about this. Okay, stop.

Hell, who wants to get bused to damn St. Louis? For a protest, right? Yeah, maybe to see the arch. I would see the arch. It goes over the river, or it's next to it. I don't know. That's why I'd go check it out. And I'd probably fly, to be perfectly honest.

Right. And on the left, we don't have no money for buses anyway. Right. So she's lying. Yeah. And on the left, we don't have no money for buses anyway. So she's lying. With regards to Ferguson, there were so many people bused into Ferguson. If all of these individuals want to claim that there's something wrong with the system, why don't they vote? Why was voter turnout so bad? Okay, stop. Vote for what? Who are we voting for? Voting would have kept Stockley from being on the police force in the first place? Is there an option to vote that dismantles policing as we know it? Is there an option to do that? So what is

she talking about? And to top it off, black people do vote, right? So there's this misinformation given that black people don't vote but black people are some of the most stable voters in the country right and so and we were the ones who weren't fool enough to vote for Donald Trump right that was white folks not to mention she doesn't know who voted shut that out there with a fucking clipboard you You know, like you don't check anything off. She saw a crowd of people she didn't like who were the color she's not, you know, super enamored of and decided that those people don't vote. They just protest. Right. The people don't even aren't even aware of the judges running like the judge, Brian, who gave the decision in this case because it wasn't a jury trial. It was this judge's decision.

Nobody was even aware you can vote for or against these individuals. So don't claim that there's something wrong with the system when your lack of a vote shapes that system. You were part of that system. You have to participate in your community. That's a huge problem here. Okay, stop. I've just fallen in love. There's been a love connection. We'll set that up. I don't know. I don't know how to get to Brank. I guess we'll get to somebody. We'll go to Kimmel to kill Meade to Dana Loesch. Because I think that's the connection this week. The thing about the...

It's also... She's like, why won't these people participate? They are on the street. This is... What do you have to do to participate? Like, just... You have to shoot at something? Like, is it shooting at a target?

Like, what is she looking for? Right. I mean, I think one of the things on the right they keep saying is on the left all you're supposed to do is vote and go home. Anytime we're talking about change in this country or in the world, it is a combination of voting, electoral politics, and engagement on the street. There is a place for protest. And we're not going to get the kind of change we need without it. Yeah. I mean,

we have seen over and over again one of the few things that has the capacity to rest the microphone away from Donald Trump. It's not Democratic senators on the floor of the Senate. It's not. I mean, it's not a criticism of them. That's how it works.

He's got the bully pulpit. But people on the streets, whether it's the Women's March or people showing up at the airport or people showing up in St. Louis, have managed to take the microphone. And I think that is what she doesn't like, right? Because this is participation. These are people participating in our democracy right now. Absolutely. Yeah.

Good comment. Thanks, Don. Thanks, Don. Thank you. Thank you. I hope Yeah. Good comment. Thanks, Dawn. Thanks, Dawn. Thank you. Thank you. I hope there's peace tomorrow. I hope that people can solve this civilly.

I pray for my city. I will say, too, that two reporters I spoke to, one of which was Dave, he says if he was more fearful as night fell this day, on this day, than he was at any time during Ferguson, and if we put up some of the video- Okay, stop. during Ferguson and if we okay so it's really interesting what brings white people fear as opposed to what brings black people fear right if we think about st. Louis if we think about Ferguson if we think about every single day I'm a single mother of three kids right every single day we have to be I

try to say I live without fear, but I live with deep concern for the safety of my children, right? Every single day, black people have to be worried about our lives, not because of what's happening in our neighborhoods, but because of what's happening by the people who are supposed to be keeping us safe. So when they're talking about fear, they're talking about specific fear that they have of black people rising up and demanding justice. Yeah, and also just how much for them the conversation depends on painting protesters as violent. You know, these are, you know, whether it's pointing, whether it's everyone pointing cameras at a flaming garbage

can during a women's march in which millions marched peacefully. And no one was arrested. Or St. Louis or Ferguson or many of the other Black Lives Matter protests where the vast, vast majority of people who are showing up and demanding justice are showing up to protest peacefully

but they don't want it to be about that. They want it to be about violence because that's how they scare the people watching. And if we told the truth, right, Black Lives Matter protesters have demonstrated peacefully and vigorously, right? So we believe in nonviolent direct action. We believe in the same tactics of the civil rights movement and other movements before us. We believe in disruption, But we're not the ones walking through neighborhoods with torches. We're not the ones driving cars into people. We're not the ones stabbing people with flag poles. That's her folks.

I thought something that was really instructive was there was video of St. Louis police officers shouting, whose streets? Our streets, as a taunt to protesters. And I think, look, I'm actually curious what you think about this, because all these protests, you know, these are spurred by individual actions, right, but speak to a deeper cultural problem inside of police forces and our society. That chant to me spoke to a cultural problem above any specific incidents. Do you think, like, how do you think you change that culture?

How do these protests help change that culture? How do we change the mindset of the officers who are doing that? Is that what you're asking? Yeah, or just how do we change policing in that way? Like, what makes you hopeful about how things can change, I suppose, is the question. So let me be straight up. I don't believe that policing as it exists can be reformed. I believe in the transformation of our public safety system.

I believe that if you look at every single study in what builds safe communities, it's the investment in livable wage jobs, mental health resources, after-school programs. That's what creates safe communities. What makes our communities unsafe is the fact that in every major city, police take up upwards of 50 percent of our city budgets. Here in Los Angeles, 54 percent of the city budget goes directly to police. If we freed up that money, we'd have safe communities. So we need a holistic approach to public safety rather than tinkering with a system that was created to keep us oppressed. 54%?

54% of LA budget goes to LAPD. Of the city's budget goes to the police? Yes. That is a staggering fact. Yes. I agree, I didn't know that either. Yeah, every major city is up above 50%. Oakland is now at 63%. Let's roll the rest of this awful clip. For Ferguson, we know how bad that got. All right, well, perfect. That got real bad. Thank you. When we come back, a new segment I'm very excited about. Is that coordinated? Don't go anywhere.

This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back! This week, footage of MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell having an outburst during breaks leaked. And a lot of people were watching this video of Lawrence dealing with some kind of a problem in his control room now I actually didn't think Lawrence I thought Lawrence did okay in the pantheon of people yelling on set of a television show in a stressful situation

like it's like point to Bill O'Reilly's, right? It's just like not even close. And that's especially true once you hear. Now, in watching the clip, you see Lawrence's side, but you cannot hear what's going on in Lawrence's ear. So in a new segment called Out of Control Room, we have obtained the audio from the other side of Lawrence. What Lawrence was hearing in his ear. And so this is news. This is something that other people have not seen.

And so I think it will be very instructive to hear what was going on on the other side of the conversation. Let's roll that clip. Well, today President Trump visited Texas, but he forgot to bring any empathy with him. But he did bring a hat, a hat that is for sale. Hey, Lawrence, this is John. I'm the party planner for the office here.

What's going on? Why am I losing this? Sorry, I don't know how the buttons work. I just was... All right, it's back. Someone's pressing buttons and turning the sound work. Labor Day rundown. We're going to have a Labor Day party. Who's asking for a Labor Day rundown in my ear?

Oh, it's me. It's John. I'm the party planner for the office. And if I could just, I'd love to ask you about the DJ. Someone in that control room is out of control. That's just unkind. I'd love to ask you about the DJ. Someone in that control room is out of control. Oh, no, that's just unkind. I'd love to ask you about the DJ, if we could have some music. Do you like, are you more of a techno guy? Do you like...

Are you like the... Are you an opera guy? Are you... Okay, relax. Geez. All right, sorry, I'm not a great opera singer. But we got to just get some of these logistics dialed in. Is Donald Trump going to be called to testify to Congress?

Michael Iscoff has the latest on that. Okay, everybody, start the hammering. If we could just get hammer everybody, start the hammering. If we could just get hammering. Stop the hammering. Stop the hammering out there. Who's got a hammer? Where is it? It's upstairs. Where's the hammer? It's upstairs. Go up on the other floor. Somebody go up there and stop the hammering. But Lawrence, we're building a plot for the Labor Day party. We can't stop the hammering. The new sheriff of Maricopa County, who beat Joe Arpaio, joins us next. Okay, I know this is getting... I don't know why I bother to say how to cut the slots when you don't do it.

Can we talk about catering for a second? I don't know why... I want to have hot dogs. These are some menu options we just wanted to show you. Goddamn entrails. We're notdamn entrails. We're not serving entrails at the Labor Day party. Are you crazy?

Crazy fucking sound coming in my ears. We have a big banner that we made, and it's got some great words on it. You know, stuff that we really put a lot of thought into. I told you why I wanted those fucking words cut. I'm just going to call it out. This sucks. It just fucking sucks. That's what I'm saying. This sucks.

Get me out of here. Jesus. This is out of control shit. Yeah, I agree. Now, for those listening at home, you may have noticed that the voice in Lawrence's ear did bear a striking similarity to that of renowned comedic actor, star of television and film, Ed Helms. But that's a coincidence.

I was caught off guard by that. It must be weird for you. It must have been weird for you to sit on this stage and watch that thing. It doesn't sound just like you at heart. I feel like I have a long lost twin brother who's working for Lawrence O'Donnell in a really abusive situation.

I feel like I need to get him out of there. He should talk to HR. What did we just see? What the fuck was that? That's... That is a very reasonable question. So Lawrence O'Donnell, somebody took some footage of Lawrence

and leaked it to the press, where Lawrence had a little bit of a fit on the set of his show, but we could only hear our side. And so Ed Helms created a character named John. Could have picked a different name. But it works.

And he pretended to be in his ear. But the real clip that everybody saw was just Lawrence losing his shit for eight minutes with total silence in between. Was it a result of something he was hearing? We don't know. We hope so. Because it's two possibilities.

Either somebody was annoying him in his ear, or Lawrence O'Donnell is a deranged madman who needs to be stopped. Or both. Or both. That was fabulous. When we come back, the rant wheel.

Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back. Today on the rant wheel, for those listening at home, when people laugh for no reason, it's because I fucked up and started again. Today on the rant wheel,

we have private jets, advertising algorithms, celebrities in politics, dot herds, fast casual dining, the success of the film It, the Republican Party's invented fake newspaper or fake news site, the Free Telegraph, and the NFL, the National Football League. Let's spin the wheel. It has landed on advertising algorithms.

This week there were a bunch of stories about whether it's Google or Facebook, whether it's Facebook dealing with placing of just absolutely heinous Russia ads for people that were very targeted ads to get people to either not turn out to vote or to turn out to vote for Donald Trump. Sort of racist, despicable, deceptive ads. Not to mention, apparently, fake meetups that Russian agents, Russian operatives, or we don't know who, but let's say Russia, was setting up fake meetups for people in small towns across the country. Anti-immigration meetups. Anti-immigration meetups.

Was anybody there when they got there? I think a few people. I don't think they ever got the turnout. I don't think the Kremlin was pleased with the turnout. But was there someone there to sort of be like, Hi, welcome to the meetup that I the meetup the anti-immigration meetup right yeah hello it is me or was it just sort of like Joe America I'm here to join you in rally we love football and we hate immigrants right we're yes I

work where you all work, in healthcare administration. That is what your economy is now. This sucks. Norman. Yes? I should not do impressions. I'm not good at it.

I thought you were good at it. Oh. I shouldn't be... I think you need to be kinder to yourself. Thank you, Norman. What a night. Let's spin it again. It's...

It is landed on the success of It. Did you see the film It? No, I didn't.. Ed, did you see the film It? No, I didn't. Melina, did you see It? I don't even know what It is. Yeah, but I don't... Yeah, I can't say Medea, but you're over there. You don't know what...

You don't know. Maybe that's... Yeah. It's not the same. It's not the same. Norman, have you seen It? I never heard of It. Okay.

I've seen It. When did it come out? It's come out recently. It's a horror film based on a book by Stephen King. It's about a clown that kind of makes sense. I don't really... I've watched it.

I don't really... It's an evil clown. I think he represents a darkness in the human soul and maybe capitalism I don't know I'd just like to point out it wasn't very successful on this stage No

three out of four Love It or Leave It guests and hosts have not seen it It was actually like the most positive thing that most Americans experienced last weekend. It was just, everyone wanted a breath of fresh air, so they went to watch scary clowns murder people. What is it about this moment in time

that as a nation, we decided to make it like the biggest thing? What happened? What did it mean? Donald Trump? You think it's a Donald Trump thing? You think that it speaks to a deeper? She's great.

You don't put an arm on her shoulder. Does he do that? It was a supportive arm. Okay, good. It was a supportive arm. I just want to update people listening that somebody shouted out Donald Trump and I agreed with it and she's wearing a repeal and go fuck yourself shirt and he put an arm on her shoulder like, but he agreed with it, and she's wearing a repeal and go fuck yourself shirt. And he put an arm on her shoulder like,

but he's saying it's supportive. Did I? They can't handle it. They can't handle it. It. I really liked it. And there is something about a town overcome by the magic of an evil clown taking people one

by one, but they all forget because they've moved on to the next... I'm seeing it. I don't even think that was a rant. That was just a very, very loose chat about a film most people hadn't seen. Let's spin it again. It has landed on celebrities in politics. Where do these Librazine liberals get off? I don't understand these Hollywood values,

like wanting all children to have access to care after they've gone through a personal experience in which their child needed heart surgery and it opened their eyes to the challenge of healthcare in America. How unrelatable. Where are you at? I think I have a Jimmy Kimmel who, I mean, the right attacked him viciously for being an American citizen and speaking his mind. Yeah. That's the way I look. What is a celebrity?

Does a celebrity have to give up his citizenship because he's a celebrity? Why can't he open his mouth and say what the hell he thinks? Yeah. The way... a celebrity? Why can't he open his mouth and say what the hell he thinks? Yeah. I mean, this happens to be, this company town happens to be show business, media. I grew up in Hartford, Connecticut, where the insurance business was, you know, it was a company town, and the company was insurance.

The insurance people had their stars. They had their great executives, their major people, and so forth. You didn't happen to know who they were because they didn't get in the press every day. They weren't media. But nobody questioned their citizenship. Why would Jimmy Carroll be questioned just because

he happens to have a television show, but also an opinion? It's true also that celebrity opinions are unacceptable only when you don't agree with them. Because Media Matters put together a great highlight reel of all the just fantastic celebrities that have gone on Fox News over the years, like John Voight and Ted Nugent and Kid Rock

and, I don't know Stacey Dash and Charles in Charge and some other some other people that you did not cast at various moments in your career so yeah I mean it I you know I always think like that sometimes it's true that like actors and celebrities take their platform and they spout off. And I think it is frustrating when certain people have a stage and they use it unhelpfully. They aren't informed, but they can get their opinion out into the world. But then you see someone like Jimmy Kimmel take the stage with a cogent argument, where

you see Meryl Streep at one of the award shows where she was wonderful. And make an argument in defense of the arts. Or Jesse Williams. Or Jesse Williams. Or Colin Kaepernick. Or people that have used their platform for good and then, of course, get the slings and arrows not because of what they said,

but because they can't be attacked for what they said, so they're attacked for who they are. I think using your platform is part of, we also have to remember that celebrities have always used their stages. And if we think about Harry Belafonte and the civil rights movement, if we think about Stevie Wonder and the anti-apartheid movement, right, there becomes an obligation when you have a stage to use it for the betterment of the world now here's what i want to point to is what the hell was happening with the emmys right why did they pretend like sean spicer coming on to the damn stage was funny

that shit isn't funny right and we should keep note of everybody who took a selfie with him needs to get it, right? I will say, it was an Emmys filled with lots of jokes at Trump's expense, and I do think that John Spicer coming on stage was not great and not right, but the selfies bugged me the most. The after-the-show selfies, it's like, no, no. He's not a... It's shameless, I heard from the crowd.

Yeah, it's not... The only silver lining of Spicey's appearance on the Emmys was what a flagrant admission it was of how there is zero credibility to his entire tenure as press secretary. His entire tenure? Hello? Can we use the word tenure?

I guess, yeah. His whips on the radar. But the premise of that joke, the reason the comedic math of that joke was... Remember when I fucking lied to you people? Yeah, remember when premise of that joke, the reason, like the comedic math of that joke. Remember when I fucking lied to you people? Yeah, remember when it was total bullshit, everything I said? Isn't it funny that I'm like saying bullshit now?

That is a tacit admission. And I think that's kind of extraordinary. Yeah, it is. But it also legitimized him, right? It also is legitimizing, again, kind of this soft racism, right? Isn't it funny? This shit is not funny. It's legitimizing the Trump presidency.

That shit is not. It is hella funny until we realize that there's real repercussions, right? To me, it's, we joke about really serious things here And I think that's fine I think it's about who you let in on the joke And to me it's about making sure that Sean Spicer Doesn't get to be in on the joke And I think he's not For the most part he's not

Let's spin it again It has landed on dotards. I don't know why. It's a great word. It's a great word, dotard. I like it. I hope we start using it more to describe him, Trump. Dotard.

Dotard. Kim Jong-un, in his response to Donald Trump, it was translated as daughtered, but apparently in the Korean, it was old beast lunatic. That's what daughters mean? That the characters side by side were actually not daughtered. It was old beast lunatic, which is awesome. Because what better combination of words?

Is it bad that we're agreeing with Kim Jong-un? It sucks. It sucks. When I first saw that word, I saw it in print before I heard it said. And so I read it as dotard. I saw it in print before I heard it said, and so I read it as do-tard. And I actually thought that it was this like really, really sort of gross version of the libtard insult, but changed to be a Donald.

And I, the Donald version of it. That was the first thing that occurred to me, and I was like, this North Korean translator is operating at like crazy levels. Yeah, I actually would think you'd have to pull aside that translator and say, listen, I appreciate your craft and I don't want to tell you how to do your job, but you can't just create portmanteaus. Yeah.

You're not the academic translating Dostoevsky. You're just a guy trying Dostoevsky. You know, you're just a guy trying to make sense of this. Well, but that's what the thing, it was a portmanteau and a legitimate word.

It's a really, it's next level. It's high level stuff. Should we spin it one more time? Yeah! It has landed on fast casual, which, like it, is something nobody on the stage really was that familiar with.

So I guess apparently restaurants like McDonald's and restaurants like Chili's are struggling because millennials don't want to go to them. They want to go in the middle, which is fast casual, which is where there's no waiter, but the food's a little better, you know? Yes. Your Panera breads, your Chipotles. Are McDonald's and Chili's suffering, though, maybe because of their food sucks?

So, Ed, listen. I want people to say what they're comfortable saying on the stage. And I don't like to do this. You come on the stage, and you say shit about McDonald's. I don't care what these cards say. I did not say it's not delicious. I don't care what movies you were in. I'm not going to have that.

I eat McDonald's more than I should. John and Tommy, they don't eat McDonald's. And then I'm like, oh, they're so fit. Why aren't I as fit? Eats a dollar menu item. Fast casual. This rant was fast casual. You know what?

I don't have anything to criticize. I like what these places are doing. I haven't been to a Chili's in a long time, but I do love a Chili's, too, when I'm in the mood for some fast casual at an airport. You know what? I agree. I also noticed that Wolfgang Puck has put his name on refrigerated to-go salads also at the airport. You know what? I agree. I also noticed that Wolfgang Puck has put his name

on refrigerated to-go salads also at the airport. And I think that's a fascinating example of someone who said, fuck it. Like, I mean, I thought he was saying

eat it. You make Spago. You're a famous, fancy chef. And bit by bit, you're like, now I'm food at the airport. Now I'm vending machine salad. Yeah. Now I'm iceberg for $15

before a flight to Cincinnati. Good for him. Trump is president. Make your salad money however you want. Norman? Yes? I don't want to let you go. And we're at the end of the show.

Wait a minute. I didn't say I was going anywhere. I'm here. Thank you. Yeah. Are you, underneath that, were you kissing me off? Were you fucking kissing me off? I've been told to leave before.

Norman, I was not. I was struggling with the fact that it's time to end the show. I was not. I was struggling with the fact that it's time to end the show. We're all struggling with that. We're having such a good time. Is there anything you'd like to rant about? Anything I'd like to rant about? Anything on your mind?

This whole fucking evening. That guy knows how to end an episode. Those poor people having to pay for their... just to hear us talk. I watch them get their goddamn checks and have to take out their credit cards and pay money for sitting here listening to me talk. Why?

Why is that? Guys, give it up For Norman Lear Alina Abdullah And Ed Helms Have a great night Love and Olivia is Love and Olivia It's making all my sense Love and Olivia is Love and Olivia