Lovett or Leave It - Twisties and Shout

Episode Date: July 31, 2021

Rainn Wilson and Reza Aslan join to break down all the week's news, from Simon Biles's decision to Adam Driver's transformation. Jason Concepcion takes us through a bracket of former celebrity couples to see which reunion would reign supreme. Jon interviews Bruce Friedrich of the Good Food Institute to talk about meat without the downsides. And we test a diehard Olympic fan to see how well she's been watching - and listening - to Team USA. Look out. We're coming in hot this week.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, please visit crooked.com/lovettorleaveit. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

Welcome to Love It or Leave It, out of the closets, into the streets. We're still in a pandemic Disinformation and lies abound Those feelings aren't scientific Red state bullshit Got you singing the blues You wanna hop on a plane Like Ted Cruz And fly away Gotta, gotta get out

We're getting out of the closets We're going into the streets Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know you gotta put your phone down now. Discard those tweets. Five shows up ahead. Talking butts in seats. Out of the closets and into the streets.

This is so exciting. We're back. I am very excited about this. It's been a long day, hasn't it? Out of the closets and into the streets. That incredible song was by our first-time theme song return player, Ethan Mathias. Great job, Ethan.

That was awesome. If you have an Out of the Closets Into the Streets song for us, please send us one at leaveitatcrooked.com. They have been absolutely amazing. Thank you, thank you, thank you for sending them. Before we get to the show, there is only one episode of Edith remaining, which means you have just enough time to binge the first

seven episodes right now. You do not want to miss out on Edith, played by the incredible Rosamund Pike and written by look, your friend and mine, the late Travis Hellwig and Gonzalo Cordova. No, he's not dead. That's not right. Dead to us. He's not dead. Check out Edith. If you haven't listened to it, it is so funny. It is so smart. It is so well written. It is so entertaining. Once you start, you won't be able to stop. So please, please, please check out Edith on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. One more thing.

After a year of social distancing and working from home, we could all use a little help getting readjusted to normal life, whatever that is. That's why the Crooked Store is introducing its first book, The Crooked Guide to Societal Reentry, an illustrated 75-page book with everything you need to know for a seamless transition back into public life. Life in public. It's written by the What A Day newsletter editor, Sarah Lazarus, who is hilarious. It's illustrated by Crooked's own Dayanita Ramesh, who serve as your mentors through hilarious tutorials and illustrations. Get a copy for yourself and all of your friends.

It is an incredible book. It is so funny funny you will love it it's also I think this is my take a great gift I'm just going to throw that out there I'm just going to throw that out there at crooked.com slash store on this week's show I chew the fake meat fat with Bruce Friedrich of the Good Food

Institute we explore the Olympics in sound because they can't pull down sound we didn't license probably even though if any of the censors are listening the Olympics in sound because they can't pull down sound we didn't license, probably. Even though if any of the censors are listening, is this from the Olympics? Is it from something else? You don't know. Therefore, leave us be, please. Leave us be. We also decide the next benefit with Take Line's own Jason Concepcion. Yes, we have that power. It's both a blessing and a curse. But first, here to offer me a sip

of their metaphysical milkshake are my podcast comrades-in-arms, Rainn Wilson and Reza Aslan. Nice to see you both. Hey, John. Hi, nice to see you. Thanks for having us over. Thank you for being here.

Love seeing you both. Love seeing you both together. For those listening at home, they are in front of some sort of a void, a black void. They are like Zod and the others. Oh, my God. We are Zod and the other two. I'll be the girl evil Superman. Oh, that's the Zod, the Superman.

The X-Zone. Weren't they in that thing? Yes. That spinning thing? Yeah. the Superman. The X-Zone. Weren't they in that thing? Yes. That spinning thing? Yeah. Phantom Zone. Phantom Zone. Phantom Zone.

Is that what it is? It's Phantom Zone. That was from Matt DeGroot. I just want to say it wasn't me. Thank you, Matt. Thank you, Matt DeGroot. Matt DeGroot in the comments. Well, thank you both for being here.

Here's how it works. I'm going to tell you some jokes of varying quality about the week's news. You can comment on them, add to them, subtract from them, like them, hate them. Balls in your court. Wow, okay. That's a lot of options. A lot of options. Let's get into it. What a week. As cases rise precipitously,

oh man, this is, I'm starting, just I'm coming in hot. Alright? Just I'm coming in white hot. Wow. Let's, you, and I'm starting with death. Let's get into it. What a week as cases rise precipitously in unvaccinated areas of the country. Alabama's Republican Governor Kay Ivey declared that it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks. And I'm like, we are. It's just hard for them to hear us over the beeping of all the machines. Oh, I'm really. Let's just start. Let's just hard for them to hear us over the beeping of all the machines oh i'm really

let's just start let's just start right there i know yeah yeah i mean i was i was considering a tweet that i didn't do can i can i talk about on this podcast that i was not and i'm not going to tweet because i thought it was too far and your joke went even farther that's which was like for the unvaccinated i feel like when they take their respirators out of their mouth at the hospital, they can say, I showed them. Well, look, you know what I'll say, and I'll even tweet this. I don't care. I'll tweet it. Would you tweet that, what I just said? Maybe.

You'd probably phrase it better. Yeah. I'll use more F words. Why are we just talking about this as a pandemic of the unvaccinated? We keep talking about it like, oh, it's a surge of COVID. Well, yeah, but only amongst the unvaccinated. Well, no, I feel like putting joking aside, like here's how I was thinking about it recently. And to me, this made a lot of sense.

Everyone is going to get vaccinated sooner or later. You're either going to get vaccinated from getting a shot in the arm, or you're going to get vaccinated from getting and suffering from COVID and passing it on to your loved ones and vaccinating them with the white blood cells from actually getting the disease. That's just how it's going to work. Yes. And I do think that one of the challenges is that because we're all pundits now in a kind of endless political conversation where we're not just citizens, but also observers of the system in a kind of constant state of meta analysis. There are two separate conversations that are worth having. One is how do we convince skeptical people who are skeptical for various reasons from various political persuasions to get vaccinated,

whatever cause of their resistance, whatever it may be. And then there's this other conversation like, hey, why are they like this? How did we get here? What is the moral consequence? Is it why do they not trust science? Why do they not trust science? Is it OK to make fun of them? Is it OK to be to call people? It's everyone's a pundit. So it's like sometimes the conversation is only about what's most helpful. And I agree. There's plenty of research about what's most helpful. And psychologists and doctors who have spent decades trying to figure out how to persuade skeptical people to get vaccinated. There's a lot of research on this about like how you appeal to people's identities, how you meet them where they are, how you talk about not just the fact that vaccines are safe and effective, but talk about the fact that life has risks and the disease has risks and vaccines have risks, but the disease is more risky than the vaccine. You know, like there's lots of ways to get at people's underlying, underlying fears,

but then there's no real space for those of us that are vaccine and super frustrated to be like, this is driving me fucking nuts. This is a miracle, a miracle. Like, if it came down from the fucking mountain with tablets, it is a miracle. But going down to the science thing, it's interesting because as a kid in the late 70s and the 80s, science by both parties was revered. We put a man on the moon. I remember those days. Science put a man on the moon. Science cured polio. Science has created cell phones,

you name it, there was this great awe of science. And so going to point two of what you have brought up here, one really interesting conversation is why do people not trust science anymore and how science works? How did we go backwards so much? How did we become as a people so unscientific? And the reason I'm bringing this up in this manner, is because our podcast metaphysical milkshake sorry for the lame plug

no is about life's big questions and kind of delving in we have a podcast yes yes we do i'll tell you about it later um but it's about you know addressing questions like this how did we get here yes yeah and you know there's um there was a story in Politico about kind of a look at the vaccine hesitant anti-vaxxers at Lake of the Ozarks and the kind of obstinate denying of reality. There's a moment in the story where somebody they're at a restaurant and someone says, what's COVID? And everybody kind of chuckles. And then someone notes that somebody who worked at that restaurant died of COVID. Yeah. And I do think like when I see that story, I think we have to talk about what leads people to denialism, but also the permission structure that creates it, encourages it, makes it an identity, makes it worth celebrating, sharing, not feeling kind of feeling proud of like that's these are people that are not just hesitant. They are proudly hesitant.

It's part of their identity now. And there is a, there are many corporations built on instilling that fear and mistrust of institutions. And so we kind of have these two big problems. Like one is there are millions and millions of our fellow citizens who have become very conspiratorial and have made us part of their identity, resistance to any kind of expertise.

And there's a giant corporate apparatus that has fed off of that, perpetuated it, made it worse, built a business out of it, built a politics around it. And they're obviously connected, but these are two of the biggest challenges we face as a society, and it's everywhere. It's not just here. It's in the UK. It's around the world.

Yeah. Just to put the last word on this topic, I'm pretty sure it was Jesus who put that man on the moon. Not science. Just look it up. Look, like Trump and the vaccine, he didn't stand in the way. You know what I mean?

Exactly. Think about it. Think about it. Are you thinking about it? Thank you so much. I've already moved on to what the next joke might be. That's smart. That's smart. That's smart.

On Tuesday, Capitol law enforcement and Metro police testified about their experiences during the Capitol riot. Officer Harry Dunn compared the rioters to a hitman sent by Trump. If a hitman is hired and he kills somebody, the hitman goes to jail. But not only does the hitman go to jail, but the person who hired them does. There was an attack carried out on January 6th and a hitman sent them. And it wasn't the sexy kind of hitman either, where you realize you and your spouse are assassins hired by competing agencies. It was the Trump kind. It wasn't Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt?

No, it was Trump. And you know, by the way, that Trump would be, if Trump hired a hitman, you'd be like, I didn't even pay the guy. What's this red dot on my chest? Get this out of here. Britt Hume told Tucker Carlson, If the insurrection was covered the way the riots of last summer were covered, it would be described as mostly peaceful. I think to a great extent it was peaceful. Just a reminder that several people died and someone from New Jersey peed in Nancy Pelosi's office during the riot, which is absolutely horrible. Imagine having someone from New Jersey in your office.

Not for nothing. Well done. Do you guys remember? Hold on. Hold on. We got to go with the joke first and then we can have the commentary wow the joke works it landed it was a great setup and then it was the switcheroo it made about new jersey and not urine and i thought it was expertly you know there's

nothing i like more than when rain deeply analyzes a joke. It's my favorite thing that he does. That's going to be my next podcast. Yeah. I love the double act that is you two. There is a say goodnight, Gracie, goodnight, Gracie energy that I am really appreciating. You're all over it. I love it. Listen, not for nothing.

I mean, I know there's a lot more important things to talk about when it comes to the insurrectionists and everything that's involved in that. But do you remember when Brett Hume used to be a journalist? I remember when I was a kid, Brett Hume was like an actual dude that you would listen to. Right. That wasn't just me, right? No. That wasn't just a dream I had?

I think it's a dream he had. I remember very clearly. I remember when Brett Hume was on Match Game 76. Oh, no, that was Brett Eklund. Brett Eklund, a Swedish movie actor. I just dated myself. You didn't know? Honestly, you didn't because zero people of any age got that reference.

Yeah, I didn't. No one got that. I used to sit at home after school and watch Match Game 76. You don't remember that game show? No, you were too young. I remember Match Game 76 on like it was a daytime repeat. I remember that. Yes, Britt Eklund

was a, it was this terrible Why did I even do that? I don't know. Why not? Maybe the Brits like changed bodies. You know what I mean? In like some weird Sure. Like they both peed in a fountain at the same time that there was lightning reza what do you have to say to all of this talk about the insurrection being

peaceful two words fuck you that that's all i had people die fuck you fuck you i have eyes i saw it you saw it we saw people hammering on law enforcement with fire extinguishers we have on their faces police officers standing in front of Congress right now telling people that I almost died. And we're like, no, I mean, the guy's just making it up. He just wants attention, John. I think a lot about like the asymmetric way in which our media operates because there is no liberal equivalent of Fox News. Nothing like it. Nothing on its scale, nothing is influential. Obviously, there are left wing podcasts and they do the work. They do the best they can with the tools they've been given. Carry the water. But I

always like I think about what the liberal version of Fox News, a true cynical left wing propaganda outfit would be doing with these hearings, because I think it's instructive. And imagine what would happen if there were just there were weeks of coverage driving Democratic talking points that basically said Donald Trump hit man who ordered attack on police and that for weeks and weeks the coverage was about Trump as hit man ordering attacks on police. And then slowly but surely you start seeing in the polling more and more Americans concerned about Republicans' attacks on the police. And then Republicans are being asked, are you concerned about the fact that the Republican war on the police is going to cost them votes in the midterms? And you would start to see the build of what happens when we have someone on our side pushing against Republicans the way that we constantly face this onslaught.

And we don't have it. And so these stories are so important. They're so outrageous. I think sometimes so many liberals, so many Democrats, so many progressives, they're constantly trying, they're drawing their fire wherever they're pushing their fire wherever they can at the media and mainstream sources, because they're, it just is like a lot of times what liberals are saying, why doesn't this matter more? Why doesn't this matter more? Why is it your fault? This doesn't matter more? Is it a bad headline that causes this not to matter more? Why is it Nancy Pelosi's fault or Chuck Schumer's fault? Is it the DNC's fault that this doesn't matter more? And it doesn't matter more because we don't have the left-wing infrastructure to make things matter the way the right has.

We just don't have it. And I think sometimes it gets boring to have that same conversation over and over again. They have Fox News and Facebook. We don't. They have Fox News and Facebook, we don't. They have Fox News and Facebook, we don't. But so many of our problems, so many of our frustrating political problems are born of that missing counterbalance. We're just not good at politics. Our side is not good at politics. You're a very smart, articulate human being. I love that. We had it. It was called Air America, and it was a huge success. I want you to know something. I want you to know something.

I want you to know something. I'm glad you brought that up because you're looking at someone who was once a cockeyed 21-year-old renting a one-bedroom apartment with his friend in New York City building a wall to make a second bedroom. Nice. All right? Who bought a radio so that he could listen to the first day of Air America Radio when Al Franken had Bebe Neuwirth pretend to be Ann Coulter locked in a closet.

And I got pizza from the place across the street because I was a temp paralegal and I didn't have to show up until the afternoon. And I remember listening in my little apartment while eating my pizza to Al Franken's first episode of that show. So some good came out of Air America. It launched, love it or leave it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Okay. Here's my philosophical theorizing for why what you said is absolutely true. And it's like

the heart of most of the problems that we are dealing with right now. I think that on the right, that conservative mindset is all about certainty, black and white, right and wrong, truth and falsehood. And so it's very easy to tell that person, this is true, that is not true, this is right, that is not right. Listen to this person, don't listen to that person. It's very easy because the mindset is already there. On the left, people tend to be a little bit more open-minded, a little bit broader. We're more pluralistic. Nuanced, perhaps.

Yeah. Very few of us would say, well, yeah, I believe that this is more right than that, but I'm open to other ideas. So if you had a channel, the purpose of which was to say, this left viewpoint is right, right, right, right, right. Even if I agreed with it, I wouldn't listen because I'd be like, well, yes, but there's other ways of thinking about it. So the left itself, the mindset doesn't lend itself to your supposition, John, about like hammering home certainty week in, week out in a series of talking points. It's absolutely true. And it is why right wing radio has succeeded where left wing radio has failed. There are people that are looking for that kind of rigid analysis and confirmation, whereas the left, I think you're right there. You know, there are studies that

look at just the difference between left and right brains and every value of liberalism or conservatism, honestly, taken to its extreme becomes a vice. Open-mindedness can become, of course, a vice. But you're right that there is this kind of, I mean, it's an authoritarian mindset, and it's gotten worse and worse, which is basically a kind of rigidity, a closeness,

a desire for easy answers that is kind of, I'm going to say the word that everyone makes fun of me for saying too frequently, ensorcelled many people on the press. I don't know what that means. I don't know what that is. I feel like I had ensorcelled once, but I used this cream. I'm so glad they mock you for saying that word because it's a ridiculous word.

You just made that up. That's not a real word. After Tuesday's hearing, honestly, we're having such a great conversation. I just made that up. That's not a real word. After Tuesday's hearing, honestly, we're having such a great conversation. I'm skipping a lot of these, honestly, some of the weaker stuff. After Tuesday's hearing, Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene,

Paul Gosar, and Louis Guermart tried to peddle some of their hot, fresh, delicious horse shit about January 6th, only to have their presser ruined by a man with a whistle. Eventually, Gaetz fled the presser, only to face a barrage of questions about his alleged pedophilia,

at which point he was like, where's my friend with the whistle? Anyway. I saw that, by the way. Here to comment. Anyway, here to comment, we have the whistle guy. Now, you, he's over here, he's off screen. You prevented two of the worst human beings on earth

from spreading misinformation and dangerous propaganda, yet in a free society, don't we believe that even the most heinous people deserve the chance? That even the most heinous people should not be interrupted. This was a mistake. The whistle guy, everybody. Whistle guy, everyone.

Whistle guy. Thank you. That was almost a sketch, in a way. That was a little sketch, yeah. That was really good. You guys rehearsed that, though, right? I didn't think about what it would feel like to have you seeing me while this happened i think if you wanted to do a whistle guy sketch there's a lot of different ways you could have gone and you could have done a lot better than that thank you honestly i mean if you're open to taking notes that's all what if

the whistle guy was a giant talking, walking whistle? That's hilarious. But you'd have to have a budget for that. Like a dancing whistle. That costs money. This is a mad TV. We don't have that kind of money. Also this week, sadly, Simone Biles had to drop out of the Olympics to preserve her mental health. Even sadder, the internet had opinions about it. Turns out no one understands the complexity of Simone own Biles decision better than middle-aged men

who tweet all day. And I would just want to point out no one who tweets all day can call anyone on earth a quitter because every single tweet is a surrender. Every single tweet is an admission

that you are not doing something more substantive and important and valuable with your time. Every tweet is giving up. Yeah. Every single fucking one. Every one, including the tweet where I wrote this joke.

It's true. And then recycled it here. That's true. It's true. So you pulled a Twitter joke and you expanded on it and used it for your podcast. You know what? I don't tweet anymore. I twoop, which is tweeting while pooping.

Oh. So it's great. Like, it's a perfect – if you look at my timeline, you'll see, like, all of my tweets happen, you know, in bunches. Uh-huh. I poop a lot. Wow. I poop a lot. I have a very clean, cold, very healthy –

You have, like, five tweets in an eight-minute period, and then they are done. Eight minutes? Give me your doctor's number. are you what are you 17 eight minutes is there gin in that cup because you're turning you're turning a little bit into a borscht bell comedian honestly that i can do that eight minutes yeah also i just want to be clear that at several points today i am going to make a joke about Simone Biles not participating. And I just want to be on the record with my actual view, which is it's sad she felt she had to do this. It looks like it felt absolutely awful.

It takes genuine courage to admit when you're not in a position to participate in something you've trained your whole life to be a part of. I will also say a lot of liberals have been tweeting like they're crossing the delaware yeah you go girl like these like cringe tone poems none of us will ever be as good at anything as simone bowles is at gymnastics and so well that's it that's all i have to say about that yeah i'm good at acting at acting, but I'm like the 473rd best actor. No, hold on. I'm like the 473rd best actor in the world.

She's like the number one G-O-A-T best actor. So, not even close. She does things that are not even allowed. She has moves that you're not even allowed to do. She does them for fun. She doesn't, like, they don't even

get graded, and she's like, yeah, but I'm just gonna do it anyway. She's invented, like, 11 gymnastics moves. So, she can do whatever the fuck she wants to is what I'm trying to say. I totally agree, and I do think the people calling our country soft are calling her a quitter over this, when these

are some of the softest fucking boys in the history of planet Earth. Just cotton candy, melt in the rain, barely solid. Like, you get it. They're soft boys. Yeah, look at Tucker Carlson. I mean, he became famous because of his bow tie. He became famous because of a bow tie,

and he's calling her soft. Heir to a frozen food fortune. Which I think is cool. Tucker. Which I think is cool. By the way. Does he get as much frozen food as he wants to eat? That would be amazing.

That'd be so cool. Get a freezer stock with like chicken fingers. We might need Matt DeGroot for this one. But as absurd as Tucker's name is. Like what's his brother's names are even dumber something like biscuit carlson no it's not that it's like it's it's hunter biscuit buckley buckley carlson that's what it is buckley is not a real person's name that's like the name that's hard character in a screenplay talk about hard old school hard Buckley Swanson Peck Carlson.

Peck Carlson. That's a good name. Thank you, Matt DeGroote. That's a cool name. I like that. That's a guy you want to golf with, you know? A new ad for Burberry features a shirtless Adam Driver racing a horse into the ocean before emerging as a centaur, sending the internet

into a horny panic. The weirdest part of the ad is when the Adam Driver centaur fucks the Lena Dunham centaur sending the internet into a horny panic. The weirdest part of the ad is when the Adam Driver centaur fucks the Lena Dunham centaur. It was incredibly graphic. Wow. Incredibly graphic. That just went a little too far, and I'm not sure that's how centaur sex works. Yes.

That was my question. Do we do this? Is this like horses, or is this like people? You know what I mean? Are we sure that the genitals are in the back of the horse form? Exactly. Or are the genitals in the front of the human portion? Like, no one, we don't know this. Also, what about foreplay?

Like, how can you, I mean, do you nuzzle? What do you do? Couple of rings, couple of runs around the track. I don't know. Horse sex is surprisingly violent. Like, they just kind of, like, pummel each other with hooves and then go at it.

What is all this horse sex you're watching? What are you talking about? When is this coming up for you? Don't. Guys, we're in front of John here. Don't say stuff like that. It's also surprisingly violent.

What kind of sensual experience did you think you were going to watch? I lost my virginity to a stallion. To an actual stallion. Unlike our podcast, he's got an audience. Like, people listen to watch. I lost my virginity to a stallion. To an actual stallion. Unlike our podcast, he's got an audience. Like, people listen to this. You can't talk about horse sex.

I don't know very much about Equus. This is all going to be cut. This is all going to be edited. Yeah, none of this is. None of this is. We're just releasing this part. We're cutting it down

to just these 30 seconds. We actually just find the best 30 seconds and we release that and it's this part. It's this part. And this has been so much fun. And finally, and finally,

Scarlett Johansson is suing Disney for releasing Black Widow in theaters and on Disney Plus simultaneously, which she says is a breach of her contract. It is so messed up that we always expect women of color to fight our toughest battles for us. You see, because she played Ghost in the Shell. She was in Ghost in the Shell. I got that reference. that we always expect women of color to fight our toughest battles for us. You see, because she played Ghost in the Shell.

She was in Ghost in the Shell. I got that reference. That was good. Really good. Yeah. Really good. Yeah. I think it's cool to sue Disney. I'm not speaking to the merits of it.

I just think it's such a cool company to sue. I bet a lot of cool people have sued Disney over the years, you know? Because Disney has sued everyone. I mean, everyone. It's kind of like the six degrees of Kevin Bacon. Like someone that you know has been sued by Disney at some point in time. Yeah.

I have a lot of things to say about Disney, but I'm just going to keep them to myself because I live in Los Angeles. And, you know, you never know. It's kind of like Scientology. You can't really badmouth it because you're afraid. Yeah, I could talk shit about Scientology, but...

I mean, Scientology is not going to buy a spec script. I love Disney, and I love everything Disney's doing. And I I could talk shit about Scientology, but. I mean, Scientology is not going to buy a spec script. I love Disney and I love everything Disney's doing. And I think Disney, my personal view on, just to be clear, my personal view on the lawsuit is I think everything Disney is doing is really smart. And I like the fact that one company owns ABC and Fox now. I don't, I think that's really cool. I think there should just be like one studio. It's simpler.

It's simpler. You make it so much simpler. I think it's super simpler. I think it's much better if basically, you know, you move to la and you have an idea for a script and you go to the one person who decides what we make and if they don't like it you go back to where you're from i think that's how it's all in on disney yeah yeah i think it's really good here's what i have to say about the whole streaming thing though just in general there isn't a movie theater in the world more comfortable than my couch who is your paid laughing audience there?

paid is the emphasis is that the PA who also has the whistle person? I should just flag they are new can Kendra come on the camera? can we say hi to Kendra please? Kendra do you want to just wave? John doesn't want anyone else on camera for a

thanks so much for making us believe that oh hi there she is John doesn't want anyone else on camera. Can she come in through there? Thanks so much for making us believe that. Oh, hi. There she is. There she is. There she is. You happy now? You've made a person get up, walk across the room, wave to you.

Anything else you need? Is there anything else we get for the 473rd best actor in Los Angeles? Who's 472? I want a little respect. Who's 472? I want a little respect. The 472? Who's 472? How about a little respect? The 472 is the Geico Gecko. I almost nailed it.

I almost fucking had it. I fucking got stuck on Geico Gecko. If I had said it right, it was good. It was good. It was good. This was so much fun. It was good that you kind of broke while doing it. Yeah.

Everybody check out. Actually, 472 is Joshua Jackson. 471 is Tony Hale. 470 470 is that caveman from geico caveman yep who was played by nick kroll originally in the original commercial they're all incrementally better actors i don't believe it i don't believe it. I don't believe it. Reza Aslan, Rainn Wilson, everybody check out Metaphysical Milkshake. What a delight it's been to talk to you both.

This was so much fun. When we come back, Jason Concepcion is here for a celebrity uncouple recouple bracket that you will not want to miss. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back.

We'll always remember where we were when we found out that Ben Aplek and Jennifer Lopez were back together. We'll always remember where we were when we found out because we were on the toilet because that's where we look at instagram it's been 17 years since benefit consciously uncoupled and we here at love it or leave it decided it's time to look at what famous romantic duos should make a society shattering comeback in part inspired by a viral tweet creator on this very topic. Famous. I've done it again.

The man understands the deeper rhythms of the internet. For him, going viral is a way of life. He also hosts TakeLine and all caps NBA. Please welcome back returning champion Jason Concepcion. Jason, thank you for being here. Hello. It's wonderful to be here. Yeah, I've gone viral again.

Who knows how these things happen? I don't know. I remember one time a person I know, we were arguing about social media, and he was like, listen, I've got a master's in this. I'm like, okay, and I take two edibles and then tweet, and I get 30,000 faves. So you tell me what that means. Yeah, talk about fine arts, you tell me what that means.

Yeah, talk about fine arts, you know? Yeah, come on. We are going to look at eight iconic former couples and they will battle that out for a comeback in a segment we're calling The X Games. Woo! Because they're exes. Is that what, oh, okay. Okay, thank you for putting that up.

I left my exes in Texas. You know? I don't even think that's the lyric. I thought they meant they took ecstasy, which is what they used to call Molly, but now they call it Molly. I really like the ecstasy to Molly rebrand because it was like, who's the agency? You know? But it worked.

Fun fact for those of us that were there in the culture at the time, the transitory name was Molecule. Wow. Yeah. I remember people saying Molecule. Like, what the fuck is a Molecule? And then that became Molly somehow, which is better. Wow. What a cool person you were.

Don't do drugs, kids. Don't do drugs. Hey, and that's one thing. If there's one thing that you take away from this segment about famous former couples, don't do drugs. That's right. Actually, honestly, jokes aside. Yeah. Don't do drugs is at the core of a lot of what went wrong in many of these circumstances.

Let's just be honest. Sometimes that does happen. Yes. For me, it seems as though the two biggest reasons for celebrity couple dissolution, beyond the ordinary ways in which it is difficult for two human beings to make a life together in this complicated world of ours, is a tough competition between one person just did much better and the other couldn't take it and drugs. And or drugs. That does, that is an unfortunate thing with these high powered couples. You know, uh, if one person isn't pulling their weight,

I mean the, the animosity can come from either end, right? Either the more successful one can be like, what are you doing? I'm not, I'm here, I'm supporting you all of a sudden.

And then the less successful person might feel bad about it. There's a lot of things that can happen. Uh, that being said, I'm pulling for every celeb couple out there. Yeah, that's that's the one thing we also like our thoughts are with them at all times. Yeah. The other thing I would just say one piece of advice before we get to the actual contest itself. If you win an Emmy or an Academy Award, you got to thank them. Nothing has predicted more divorces than the when they accidentally forget on the big stage

and do the thank you at the press conference in the backstage. It's like that is a ticking time bomb. That is a divorce lawyer. A divorce lawyer sees that and just puts a card under the door, puts a card under the Porsche Cayenne's windshield wiper, you know, and says, give me a buzz. The famous version, I think, would be Hilary Swank. And come on, I got it. You got it? Come on.

And Chad Lowe. Chad Lowe, yeah. Now, the question is, was that a sign of existing trouble or a harbinger of things to come? It's unclear. Unclear. But that was a very, very famous and notable moment. Yeah, we don't know. That could be a classic correlation, not causation situation. It was like years later. I may be conflating stuff, but I thought that it was like a lot later.

Regardless, it was the cause. i mean look here's the thing here's the thing here's the thing if your husband or wife or spouse wins an academy award and forgets to thank you yeah you can be the most egoless zen self-actualized fucking you will hold it on it will grow like a little tiny evil bonsai tree in your heart until... Never stopping. Until... Untended. It breaks, you know.

But that's not why we're here today. That's right. We're here today to talk about the greatest former celebrity couples of all time and which is the couple we wish could get back together the most. We have an Elite Eight, and we will share it with you in a moment. Before we get to that Elite Eight, Jason, who are some couples that didn't make the cut that you think deserve a mention? Samantha Ronson and Lindsay Lohan. That might only have been a couple weeks in real time,

but that was a big couple weeks. That was a huge moment. I was pulling for those crazy kids. I was pulling for those crazy kids. Alexa Chung and Alex Turner of the Arctic Monkeys. So Alexa Chung, former MTV VJ, Alex Turner, he wrote her, just look it up, he wrote her a besotted love letter early in their relish that is still inspiring millions today. It was devastating when they broke up. I love musician celebrity couples. So Fabrizio Moretti from The Strokes with Kristen Wiig. That was fantastic.

I love that one. What about you? What do you got? I think there's two classic celebrity couples that we obviously failed to include. OJ Simpson and Nicole Brown Simpson. Oh my God. How could you? Sorry. It was honestly so hard to say it was so hard to say how could you do it how could you how could

you do it I really sorry that was truly how could you as I said it as I'm sorry I'm really I know I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm really I know I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry let me tell you what the path was here was the path what I was actually going to say is

Courtney Love is disqualified because she killed Kurt Cobain okay and I kind of realized mid-entry because once you

threw me the ball it was like I get to throw this one time right and then all of a sudden I found myself going down this

darker path and I couldn't turn around I couldn't get back to where I had started. I couldn't get home. I just didn't know how to get home. Yeah. Is what happened to me in that sentence.

I guess like I'm sorry. I didn't just say Kristen Wiig and Robert Pattinson. I wish that. Get us back. Get us back. Get us back. I've ruined the segment. The show.

Potentially my career. Let's keep moving. Robert Pattinson and FKA twigs whoa that's a good one that's a good one that's a good one that one too i was pulling for them what an appeal he has he's a talented young man let's kick it off yeah let's go here are the couples we have on the celebrity couple bracket in the x game i'm gonna run through them all then we're gonna take the we couple bracket in the X game. I'm going to run through them all. Then we're going to do the competition. We have Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gonsling. We have Ellen DeGeneres and Anne Heche.

We have Jamie Foxx and Katie Holmes. I love that. Judy Garland and Vincent Minnelli. Kim Kardashian and Kanye West. Cleopatra and Marc Antony. An oldie but a goodie. Famous celebrity couple. I guess celeb is, sure.

I mean- They were celebrities for sure. By what standard are they not huge fucking celebrities? Yeah, you're right. You're right. Sure. Tell me. I think that they-

All right. It's the year 35 BC. They're coming out of Craig's equivalent in Cairo. Right. It would have been Alexandria at that time, but yes, you're right. I think that, well, my one slight pushback would be that a true celeb is on some level famous for being famous or famous as a result of some kind of very entertaining thing that they do. Whereas Cleopatra was, you know, the head of state of the Egyptian client kingdom to Rome. And then Mark Antony was like whatever the fuck he was at that particular time, like the fucking governor of Egypt or something.

How do you? I don't know let's go we'll read the wikipedia well he had split the empire with augustus and then was like i'm going to egypt because that's where all the grain is yada yada yada and then they had a and then augustus after a while was like this can't stand and we're gonna kill you um but i think but that's fine we'll let it go certainly they're they are they're celebs now yeah and they have a love that has lasted uh for thousands of years famously yes i will concede you're right in some sense they were more kind of politicians right uh with mixed records at best if we're being honest very mixed but in the same way in the same way that once Woodward and Bernstein became the leads played by

Dustin Hoffman and Robert Redford, they became celebrities in perpetuity. Once William Shakespeare puts you as the protagonist, you're famous. You're just a fucking big time celeb. It didn't matter what they did after that. You know what I mean? Like that's cool.

You know, like, like Zuckerberg and the social network, like Zuckerberg and the social network. You're right. Like Zuckerberg and the social network. You know? You're right. Because obviously I personally view Aaron Sorkin as the Shakespeare of now.

A couple of things you need to know about me. A couple of things you need to know about me. Okay. I think Aaron Sorkin is our Shakespeare, and I think Simone Biles is a quitter. Those are the two things that you need to know. Oh, my God. Wow. Incredible napalm takes being dropped on this piece of content today.

Am I just sick of my life? What else do I want? What am I trying to do? I don't mean it. I'm obviously kidding. I'm kidding. Can I just say that I think that one of the worst, probably the worst thing that happened to Woodward's career

was that Robert Redford was cast as him in the movie. I think it messed him up. I think it messed him up for the rest of his life. I think the hardest part of Woodward's career has been dragging around Carl Bernstein like a fucking sack full of bricks for the last 40 years. I mean, their names are together because of J school, not necessarily because of any kind of professional ongoing relationship.

Right, right, right. All right. Let's hit back to our segment. We got to keep moving. Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling versus Ellen DeGeneres and Anne Heche. Who would we rather see back together? Reminder, Rachel and Ryan, they met while starring in 2004's The Notebook. Ellen and Anne met at the 1997 Vanity Fair Oscar party. Anne Heche was on Dancing with the Stars in 2020. And Heche says that 20th Century Fox effectively fired her after she brought Ellen to the premiere of the 1997 film Volcano. It wasn't homophobic. They just really regretted greenlighting Volcano.

I've just said, for me, it's not hard. I'll just be honest. I have to say, for me it's not hard. I'll just be honest. I think this is an easy call. Oh, this is chalk. Absolutely chalk. Because- Let's hear what you,

I'm fascinated to see where you'll go because you have, you've dropped some real wild ones today so I guess like it's hard to figure out where you're coming from.

Yeah, that's- Look, I think, here's my view. Yes. There's, I see why it would be romantic to see Rachel and Ryan back together, but purely for the fun of it, especially because. Sure. Because it ended up, I believe, with Anne Heche chasing cars on a freeway and making six days, seven nights with Harrison Ford. We got to get that Ellen and saw it in the energy back together.

God, nothing. Yes. What a six days, seven nights. back together. God, nothing. Yes. Six days, seven nights. That's how long it felt. Oh! Oh. Oh, man. So you're going a degenerate Heish. Yeah, I want to see that.

I want that. That was lightning in a bottle. That to me. I can. Look, two beautiful movie stars dating, whatever. I believe Heish was recently quoted as saying that Ellen didn't like it when she dressed, quote, sexy. I don't want that for her to continue. I agree with you, though, that to quote a terrible person on Twitter, it's great content, but terrible for our country if they get back together.

Yeah, I have to go McAdams and Gosling. I think they have a love that continues to inspire. Their kiss at the 2000 whatever it was MTV movie awards. How dare they do that and then break up? Okay. You know what? That's all I'm saying. Now they are both in committed relationships now and I wish them the best,

but if they got back together, I would not be sad. All right. You know what? You've persuaded me. I'm obviously going for laughs, but you're going for love. You know, as I as I learned from yard signs, that's the things like I believe in science. I know I do know that love wins. That's just something really important to a lot of people that love wins the phrase of real meaning. Yeah. In this house, love wins. Love wins. So Ryan Gosling, Rachel McAdams move on to the final four. Next up, Jamie Foxx and Katie Holmes versus Judy Garland and Vincent Minnelli. One demerit on the Judy and Vincent side, he was very clearly gay.

Yeah. Which obviously posed challenges to their relationship. But on the other hand, come on. Liza Minnelli. Pretty cool. Pretty cool. A classic couple. One of the all-time greats.

And of course, they gave us Liza Minnelli. Jamie Foxx and Katie Holmes. I remember when that emerged. It was like a what? Really? It was almost like you needed, I needed the pap photos because I didn't, how did they meet?

This is so crazy and awesome. I didn't, I was like, how did they meet? This is so crazy and awesome. And last did, by the way, this wasn't a flash in the pan. This was a slow roast. They went for a while. They were soaking in the juices. I'm going to say, and this is not a measure of my feelings for Jamie Foxx and Katie Holmes, but I'm going to say Garland and Minnelli. Wow.

Hopefully it'll be the kind of relationship in which both people can feel that they can be who they are. Yes. I don't know what that means for them, but whatever that feels true to them, I hope that that manifests itself. And the only reason is because Foxx and Holmes, while it was super cool, they didn't give us a lot. They were very private.

We didn't get a lot of it. Sometimes two celebrities do not form a celebrity couple. They're just a couple. Yeah, just a couple. They're not interested in being a part of our story. And honestly, because of that, we're going to respect them and not try to be a part of theirs. I respect it. That's right. It's all about respect. Judy Garland and Vincent Minnelli, obviously a relationship with many positive and negative consequences for them as individuals and their progeny.

A troubled lineage, to say the least, but talented. Next up, we've got Kim Kardashian and Kanye West versus the OG. The OG. The OG. The Kim and Kanye of ancient Egypt and Greece. Cleopatra and Mark Anthony, Marcus Antonius in the original, I don't know, Latin, Greek, whatever. Both couples obviously very involved in politics to various degrees of success. Both dealt with a Caesar-like figure in some sense. Kim Kardashian's

people hail from lands which at that time were ruled by the Roman Empire, so there's a lot of correlation there. I'd love to hear what you think first. Where's your head at? This is a bracket that I would describe as a question about impossible love.

Right. About couples that seem as though they cannot be and yet somehow persist. Yeah. Despite the wreckage and ruin that happens all around them. Right. Like, I remember when I first heard that Kim Kardashian and Kanye West were a couple. And my thought was like, that is fake. That is a fake thing.

I mean, not that they aren't really a couple, but that they are doing it as some kind of a performative version of press garnering, attention seeking,-building, courtship for our eyes, and no one else's, not even their own. But that is not true because they've built a family, and it's actually a very serious and sad situation that the reality of their actual lives is not a tabloid story. It's a personal and actually quite sad story at this point. You know? I had a similar but different reaction about Kardashian West.

I thought, oh, that makes sense. That tracks. That feels like that's been coming for a while. But I agreed at the time. I did agree with you. I did feel like, you know, much like Shawn Mendes and Camila Cabelloello this is for the cameras right this is for the cameras on some level um this is a creation to like create buzz for whatever but in good conscience i can't put them back together i think kanye is going through it right now yep yep yep whatever

it is i hope that he's getting help for it. He is currently living in the Atlanta Falcons Stadium. Which is very chill and cool. In order to record his record, a friend of mine tweeted, men will literally live in the Atlanta Falcons Stadium instead of going to therapy. Which I think is literally what is happening. I'm going to pick the murder-suicide couple that you did include in the bracket. Cleopatra and Marc Antony, that is my vote for this bracket. Again, a classic couple that inspires us throughout the ages, and they've just got a lot of brand recognition. You want to talk about a brand? How about a brand that has existed for 2,000 years? Cleopatra and Marc Antony. Totally agree. And also, one piece of this, not often

given the attention it deserves, it was a lot about how hot they were. And that was an important part of it too. These were hot people having a hot time. I always wonder about like hot in the ancient times. Because wouldn't that just mean like you have two of your teeth? That's what I was about to say. Like full

smile, vaguely symmetrical. No, like no injury caused a permanent facial issue that today we'd resolve with like, you know, a week of tetracycline. And back then it was like, this is my whole life. Right. It's like this is my whole life is based on this thing that you kill with tetracycline for now. And they were like, oh, let's give it to the pigs. Yeah. They would just bleed you for like three days.

And that would take out the illness. And I guess my one other one other, you know, shout out to getting killed by a snake as whether it's true or not. It's pretty fucking cool. Whether it's true or not. That's a story. Yeah. Like, how'd you die?

Snake. How'd you die? I had a stroke. An asp. Snooze alert. I got bit by a fucking asp in a pyramid man this is a shaping up to be a fantastic final four yeah absolutely but but before we get we have one more round to get us there we have lisa benet and lenny kravitz versus dennis rodman and carmen

electra lisa benet uh now of course married to jason momoa. So kind of tough couple to break up. Honestly, very scary to invite the wrath of Momoa. In terms of hotness, Benet is like, has anyone ever crushed it like Benet? Benet is batting a fucking thousand right now. What a cool person. Be like, I'm going to end things with Lenny Kravitz, but it probably means my next relationship is not going to be necessarily as never mind right i found someone uh yeah no pun intended pretty splashy ah

because he's aquaman that's right because he's aquaman obviously based on the ip uh entourage that's right this is an easy one for me yeah obviously because easy let's just let's i mean This is an easy one for me. Yeah, obviously. This is dead easy. Let's just, I mean. They're so hot. Yeah, it's like, can we just watch them?

They're two extremely hot people, and their child, who they created with that enhanced, super hot, super talented DNA is Zoe Kravitz, who by any measure is extremely beautiful and talented as well. I would bathe in their bathwater. Lisa Binet and Lenny Kravitz. Let's get it back together. Let's get it going. Sorry, that's incorrect.

Unfortunately, that is incorrect. What? I just checked with the judges. And actually, the fact that Dennis Robin and Carmen Electra eloped and sought annulment after nine days means that, unfortunately, due to the rules, which are obviously available online for all to see before we do this again, obviously I know people are surprised by some of these outcomes, but these were the rules everyone agreed to, which is why I think Sha'Carri Richardson

received the appropriate penalty. Yeah, that's right. I said it. I don't say, I don't mean it. Please don't. I'm just, I'm sorry. Oh my God. That's my third one. That's my third one. I'm so dead. I don't mean it. I don't mean it. I don't mean it. I don't mean it.

I don't mean it. Please. Oh my God. I have a family. I have a dog. Honestly, like we all know Ronan can in a blink of an eye find someone better. I can't. Please let me live. Please let me live.

I'm so, I'm kidding. I don't mean it. I am holding the mic. I'm kidding. I don't mean it. I am holding the mic. I am whispering. I'm serious. Yes, Jason? Pro-murder. Okay.

Don't put them all together. Pro-three strikes, you're out. Pro-very stringent drug laws. And pro-the North Korean authoritarian regime that Dennis Rodman is very, very close with. Also, don't forget, I also worked on the newsroom. That's right.

Time for the final four and my final episode. We have, going for the final four and my final episode. We have, going into the final four, we have Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling. We have Judy Garland and Vincent Minnelli. We have Cleopatra and Mark Antony. We have Dennis Rodman and Carmen Electra. First up, Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling versus Judy Garland and Vincent Minnelli. What couple do you want to see back together, Jason?

McAdams and Gosling versus Judy Garland and Vincent Minnelli. What couple do you want to see back together, Jason? McAdams and Gosling. They are name-checked in Lazy Sunday, which is a piece of viral content that then kicked off the YouTube era. Phenomenally important. Very talented. McAdams and Gosling. Listen, Garland and Minnelli, no shots. The Bad and the Beautiful

is the best Hollywood movie about Hollywood. And Judy Garland, you know, like The Wizard of Oz, love it. That said, McAdams and Gosling

is my final answer. Judy and Vincent will meet you in St. Louis. Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling will meet you at the finals. That's right. Next up, Cleobat,

this is, I would like to see somebody skip through to this part. Jason. Yeah. Facing off to get into the finals, we have Cleopatra and Mark Anthony versus Dennis Rodman and Carmen Electra. Obviously an upset. Again, based on a clear reading of the rules,

we had no choice because of their nine-day annulment. Which is the celebrity couple we'd like to see back together. And you go first. You go first. Who doesn't want to see Dennis Rodman and Carmen Electra out there on the red fucking carpet? Dennis Rodman, by the way, obviously, yes, to Jason's point, I don't love his North Korean politics. Sure.

But I do love his gender defying wardrobe politics in many ways ahead of his time. Sure. But I do love his gender-defying wardrobe politics in many ways ahead of his time. Yeah. Ahead of his time. What is the name of the basketball player that wore Ramones? And he's very handsome and he wears cool clothes and Mitt Romney tried to heckle him

when that team played the Utah Jazz. Oh, come on. He's cool. Mitt Romney. to heckle him when that team played the Utah Jazz. Oh, come on. He's cool. Mitt Romney. Russell Westbrook. Oh, Russell Westbrook. Okay. All I was going to say.

The Ramones thing threw me off. But yes, handsome? It works for me, all right? Sure. And you know what? I'm the expert. I agree. I'm the expert.

That's true. I'm the expert on that. We are at the expert. That's true. I'm the expert on that. We are at the finals. Okay. And here it is for the celebrity couple. Jason and I would like to see back together in the spirit of Bennifer bringing back that energy that we all loved when we saw them together the first time. It is. I would say this is a devil on your shoulder, angel on your shoulder moment.

Do you want to see Dennis Rodman and Carmen Electra? Or do you want to see Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling? What does your heart want? Wow. Are you chaotic evil or are you lawful good is basically the choice before you, Jason. There's too much chaotic evil in this world right now. We need lawful good. We need that.

We need that pick me up. We need lawful good. We need that. We need that pick-me-up. We need that sunshine. With all apologies to McAdams and Gosling's current partners, I would like to see them back together, and I would like them to win this tournament of beloved champions. Let me just consult with the judges. Yeah, we're going to give it to them. We're going to give it to them. You're right. Rachel, Nick Adams, and Ryan. Will you announce it like Don on the airplane announcing that the Seals got bin Laden on the newsroom?

Yeah, because obviously that's one of the best scenes ever written. So yeah, I will do it like that. Because that's, listen, if we know one thing about the world right now, the issue is that there aren't enough news people telling people the news. Right. And if we just had more news people doing it. That's true.

No, here's what I would like to do. Let's, we should, yes. Yeah. Let's give it to them. You know what? We're going to give it to them. Maybe, listen, let's add some library-free notebook-adjacent music plus some rain

for Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams, the celebrity couple we'd love to see back together in our fantasy with no consequences for their current relationship. We're not trying to actually break anybody up. That's not what we're doing here. No, we're not. That's not what we're doing here. That's not what we're doing here. A little bit, but that's not what we're doing.

That's why we came here. Right. I came here. I came here to say things that I shouldn't say sometimes. Yes, you did. I'm trying to think if there's anything more I'd like to add to the list. As long as I'm going to put all the worst things I've ever said into one segment. Can't think of anything.

Want to throw any other celebrity couples that just pop in your brain together? No? No, I don't mean to add. I just would let people know that because this is a podcast that I have been eating Chick-fil-A the whole time. Well, the West Hollywood Chick-fil-A does matching donations to LGBTQ funds. I'll just say that. Okay. That's what I tell myself when I go just say that. Okay. Okay.

They do match. That's what I tell myself when I go there. Matching donations. That's what we tell ourselves. That's what we tell you. That's what we tell our favorite celebrity couple,

Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling. Jason Concepcion. Thank you. The greatest. Returning champion. Thank you so much for being here.

Everybody, go subscribe to Take Line. Go subscribe to All Caps NBA. Follow him on Twitter where every day he breaks the internet, frankly. Thank you. Hard to say. Hard to say. That's the fifth hard thing that I've said today.

The hard truth. You came out hot and then it's just been heat ever since. Thank you so much to Jason for joining us. When we come back, talked to bruce friedrich from the good food institute about fake meat and the future of meat you know don't go anywhere this is love it or leave it and there's more on the way and we're back he is the founder of the good food institute and he's coming for your burgers please

welcome bruce friedrich bruce thanks for being here i'm delighted to be here love it thanks for founder of the Good Food Institute, and he's coming for your burgers. Please welcome Bruce Friedrich. Bruce, thanks for being here. I'm delighted to be here, Levitt. Thanks for having me. So I'm very excited. I want to talk about three things. I want to talk about technology, I want to talk about behavior, and I want to talk about branding. Let's take these one at a time. So you were on The Guardian last year about two big announcements that came from KFC, a company who used to do a fair amount of protesting. One was that they'd be selling plant-based chicken in California. The other is that they would be selling what we're going to briefly call cultivated meat, but then try to

rebrand, which is basically meat grown from real chicken cells, but not involving any living clucking chickens in Russia. What was your reaction to these announcements? And what do they say about the future of how we'll be eating meat? I think when a brand as iconic as KFC moves toward plant-based meat and cultivated meat, Love it. That is a very good sign because KFC is symbolic of chicken. It's synonymous with chicken. And they're moving in the direction of making chicken from plants and cultivating chicken directly from cells, which will pay huge positive dividends in terms of climate impact, in terms of pandemic risk, in terms of antibiotic resistance risk, and in terms of animal welfare. So it's a phenomenal sign, we think, of things to come.

So I want to take these one at a time. So there's plant-based meat. That's something companies like Beyond have been doing. Impossible Burgers are an example of this. That is a kind of a step beyond the kind of traditional veggie burger. This is trying to use technology to kind of engineer something that is as good as meat, but not made from meat. And then we have cultivated meat, which is meat grown from cells of an animal, but not involving that animal. Can you talk a little bit about where each of these technologies is right now in terms of like, what are you betting on? Are you betting on, you know, a sommelier of smells figuring out the right combination of

soy and corn to imitate meat? Or are you betting on the scientists with goggles using stem cells from a goat? I think they both have critical roles to play. And the thing to underline about plant-based meat is this is not veggie burgers for vegetarians. This is a recognition that meat is made up of lipids, aminos, minerals, and water. Everything in meat also exists in plants. So if we hire meat scientists and chemical engineers and others, and we get them together, and we say, hey, your charge is to make meat from plants, something that is biologically indistinguishable from meat eaters. And because it is so much more efficient, because it doesn't evolve the inefficiency of growing massive amounts of crops to feed them to animals, where the animals burn

off most of what they are fed simply existing. Over time, we should be able to make products that are indistinguishable to meat eaters, that cost less, that are healthier, and that have a host of other external costs that they don't contribute to. So for people who want to eat actual animal meat, and we think there probably are quite a few of those, cultivated meat is for them. And we think both of those are going to be necessary in the future. So there are four goals, but there's only three I care about. The fourth goal is there's maybe a way for companies that sell us meat to make more money and like because this can be more efficient.

And that's fine. I'm glad that that can be a business model. But in terms of sort of public good, there's a climate argument, there's an antibiotic resistance argument, there's a humane argument. You know, there's been some argument that actually some of these companies aren't more efficient than just raising animals, that they're right now producing a lot of climate related gases that they aren't necessarily better a lot of climate-related gases, that they aren't necessarily better for the environment. Is there any truth to that? Or is that something that will change as they scale up? What do you think about that? Well, just to say there's also a pandemic risk argument. The UN Environment Program last July

released a report called Preventing the Next Pandemic. They listed the seven most likely causes of the next pandemic. The first one was increased meat production. The second one was intensification of animals, because if you have tens of billions of animals, every single one of those animals can be a zoonotic disease vector, and that disease can jump the species barrier. And if you confine them, it depresses their immune systems, which increases that risk. So with plant-based meat and cultivated meat, the risk of your meat causing the next pandemic goes from one of the top two of seven to zero. So that's another one we should look at. On the plant-based meat side, there have been life cycle analyses done of plant-based meat beyond meat and possible foods. And what they

find is even at the small scales that these products are produced at right now, 90% less climate change and 93 to 96% less land. So you have significantly less direct emissions, including no methane from ruminant digestion, no nitrous oxide from manure decomposition. And those are greenhouse gases that are 20 and 300 times as potent as carbon dioxide. So a huge environmental win with cultivated meat. It's still lab scale. To achieve all this, though, it has to taste good. Now, I have a vision, Bruce, and here is my vision. My vision is a printer and it spits out perfect ribeye steaks the size of pizza boxes. Because in my vision, this doesn't just replace meat, but this actually is better that not relying on animals, but actually kind of taking cells from animals and then using those to develop new processes for generating meat. That's not just going to be a substitute, but that's going to be better.

How far are we right now from my ribeye printer? GFI, the Good Food Institute, our global battle cry is that governments and the NGO community that care about climate, that care about biodiversity, that care about global health. For the same reason governments are putting billions of dollars into renewable energy, for the same reason governments are incentivizing private sector activity in renewable energy, electrification of transport, drug development, governments should be incentivizing this shift to a better way of making meat. It is literally impossible scientifically that we meet our obligations under the Paris Agreement with regard to climate change if meat consumption continues to go up. And there is no plausible theory for how meat consumption does anything other than continue

to go up unless we shift to plant-based meat and cultivated meat. So if governments incentivize this, it happens a lot more quickly than if we leave it to the tender mercies of the private sector. But we're optimistic that your vision can become a reality. You know, hopefully we'll create something like the space race, getting governments behind these new technologies. So as you just said, there's just no plausible way to get to where we need to get to on climate unless we figure out a meat substitute. There's no way to get there. So let's talk about behavior. There's an article that references you in the year 2000 in the New York Times in which you were protesting fur and you attempted to throw red paint at a model wearing fur, which I actually don't support, especially because you didn't miss and you hit a bunch of

people in the first row. This seems to be, I think, a good metaphor for the ways in which this might have not been the most effective strategy for protest. I think you hit a CNN reporter. Is that right? Well, there was no intention to hit anyone, but I was tackled. So the idea was that I would jump into the runway and then myself. And I had a song. Oh, OK. Good. Good. Tackled. And the red paint went sort of flying everywhere. So. But yeah, it's definitely, you know, it is what it is. It's street theater. I do think you've come a long way. Like, I do think there's a if you can't beat them, kind of join them vibe to what you're doing now, which is like, all right.

beat them kind of join them vibe to what you're doing now, which is like, all right, I want to make a more humane world. I want to have the biggest impact in reducing climate change, reducing terrible abuse of animals. Now that I think fairly should continue to involve protesting abuses in factory farming, protesting abuses by corporations. But you're making a concerted effort here to say, you know what, if I want to reduce the number of animals that are killed, hurt, held in terrible circumstances, the best way to do that is to beat meat, not try to stop meat. Is that a fair reading of what you've come to learn? Like, do you kind of now see the best way out here in terms of behavior is not getting people to stop eating it, as nice as that would be, but finding replacements for people. Yeah, we frame it in terms of transformation rather than disruption.

And we take it maybe even a step further than you just elucidated. We believe that Tyson and JBS and Smithfield and Cargill can be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. And we would like to see them transform how meat is made. So the big meat companies and the big food companies, they are in the business of producing as much protein as possible, as profitably as possible. And all of the five biggest meat companies, as well as ADM and Nestle, two of the biggest food companies in the world, are moving in the direction of plant-based

meat. And multiple of them have also invested in cultivated meat startups, which we see as a phenomenally good sign. So at GFI, we're not actually coming for anybody's burger, you know, further to what you said at the beginning. We're focused on producing meat from plants and cultivating it from cells so that it simply becomes what people want to eat. This isn't about convincing people to change their behavior. Let's meet people where they are and make products that taste the same or better and that cost the same or less. And just like renewable energy becomes how we power our lives or just like electric cars become the cars that consumers want to buy, Meat from plants and meat cultivated

from cells just become meat. There's a way in which this issue of cultivated a plant-based has scrambled some kind of identity-based lines. You talk about the importance of not really labeling this as vegetarian, not really highlighting that this is different, but letting people think of it as meat. At the same time, in Texas, some Republicans have tried to go the other way. They're trying to make sure we label this because they don't want people to discover that they like it. And I can't remember if it's impossible or beyond, but one of them decided to do something that I thought was really smart, which is an ad campaign about basically saying, are you afraid you'll like it? Which I think kind of got at this

distinction. But underneath all this is a branding question about how people think about meat, whether they think of it as a replacement, a substitute, an alternative. How do you talk about this? This is good for farmers. It moves people away from get big or get out. This is good for workers in rural America. Slaughterhouse jobs are about the worst jobs in America. This is high value, high paying, excellent jobs in meat production. More than 70% of solar panels purchased in the United States are made in China. The U.S. has four lithium ion battery production factories in the United States. There are 93 in China. In 10 years, the U.S. is going to have 10 lithium-ion battery factories. China's going to have 140. So the American jobs plan, it's one jobs,

two infrastructure, and three out innovate China. This is the future of meat. And then the question is, do we want to import all of our meat from China, or do we want to keep that production in the United States? That should be appealing to Republicans because the two options are not status quo and plant-based and cultivated meat. The two options are the same as the options with solar panels and electric vehicles. Do we want it to happen in the U.S., or do we want to export that production someplace else? In terms of nomenclature, we like the term cultivated meat. You cultivate cultivated meat in a cultivator. That seems to work. And then plant-based meat, it is meat made from plants, similar to ice is no longer artificial

ice just because it's made in your ice maker and not pulled out of a lake. If the meat is indistinguishable to the consumer, it's cultivated meat or it's plant-based meat. I feel like we can beat cultivated meat. All right. I'm just going to tell you, I just feel like we can beat it. I don't like it's better than lab grown. I don't like, I think we all realize lab grown is bad. What are our alternatives for cultivated? I'm trying to set, look, I'm trying to move cultivated meat here. I'm on board. I am your biggest booster. And I think cultivated meat, here's why I think we can do better. I feel like the best name is going to be one that through its assertion of why it's good is inextricably tied to why the alternative isn't as good. Barack Obama represented change. Implicit

in that is that the other person doesn't. What are some alternatives for cultivated meat? What are some words? How did we land on this? I want to brainstorm with you. I think we can beat this. It was called clean meat for a while. The problem with your theory, though, is we really do want the Tysons and Cardinals and JBSs and Smithfields to see this as the future. So when we were calling it clean meat previously, the idea was that like clean energy is clean energy. This is better for the planet, lower climate impact. So it's clean meat. But

obviously the flip of that, a lot of people heard dirty meat, but it was interesting. I mean, in the early days when it was being called clean meat, that's what USDA was calling it. That's what the CEO of Cargill and Tyson were calling it. Then somebody pointed out the sort of flip side of that and folks moved away. Right, right, right. This is a tough one. Yeah, we used a marketing firm. We landed on Cultivated. A lot of other folks use Cultured. Cultured, no. Cultured sucks. Cultured sucks. It evokes petri dishes and it's not the answer. Cultivated is better. I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm happy to continue to brainstorm, but, uh, I want to be brought. I want to be brought in. I've seen the research. I believe I've seen the research. I see how you landed on cultivated.

I just not, I'm not totally sure we've cracked it. Okay. All right. I just like to be brought into the process. All right. I'd like to be brought into the process. Final question. Have you had cultivated meat? How much cultivated meat have you sampled? It's like the flavor version of when a bit of solar is cheaper than a bit of coal. Like, there's a point at which that we cross the flavor threshold. There's no reason cultivated meat can't taste better than meat as it is right now. So have you had it? How was it? Pat Brown from Impossible Foods likes to talk about the fact that with current meat production, you have the limits of the biology of the animals.

Whereas with cultivated meat and with plant based meat, you can get to taste the same and move into better fairly quickly. Yeah. And you also need to get to cost the same or less. And that should also happen with cultivated meat. Yes, I have had cultivated meat, you know, probably eight or 10 times from, I think, four different companies. And it tastes exactly like animal meat. So which is, you know, they've got the taste the same or better down with cultivated meat, because it's the exact same product, just produced in a different way. But yeah, I agree with you. I will say there's a third piece of this too, with meat, because we don't care what our solar panels look like. But that Israeli company that was pumping out those steaks, it was a little uncanny valley. All right, we're not there yet.

All right, let's just be honest about it. All right. I want they need to look delicious, too. I completely agree. Yes, it needs to be the entire precise meat experience from start to finish, or better. I mean, the first cultivated meat company was called Upside Foods, previously called Memphis Meats. They're literally less than six years old. So also most of the meat is less than six years old. So we are very early days in this endeavor. There's no reason that these products can't taste the same or better and cost the same or less, but it's not easy. So that's why we need governments involved. I'm going to up my goal. I'm going to change my vision. It's now perfect Kobe steaks, the size of pizza boxes, just rolling off a printer,

being packaged, just ready to go. All right. That's our goal. All right. Give me a year estimate. That's our moonshot. 10 years. Ten years is aggressive. We should wake up tomorrow and the community that cares about biodiversity and climate, as well as pandemic risk and antibiotic resistance risk like these communities, which put vast resources and at the government level, billions of dollars into research and development and private sector incentives like China could make this happen pretty quickly. China has food safety issues. They have food security issues. They want to be a global leader in the Paris Agreement. So China should throw down the gauntlet and start churning this stuff out and put a bunch of their labs at the disposal of plant-based and cultivated meat. If they did that, yeah, 10 years could happen. But I think what you are envisioning is a little further out than that.

And I want it on American assembly line. So I do think that when we think about investing in technology to stop climate change, we talk a lot about energy production. We talk a lot about efficiency. We talk a lot about infrastructure and we talk about the pollution that's caused by animal farming. But we don't talk enough about these kinds of technologies and investing in the research into these kinds of technologies that will be so important. So thank you, Bruce Friedrich, for being here from the Good Food Institute. He's not coming for your burgers. He's replacing them with better burgers that are more humane, climate friendly, anti-pandemic, anti-antibiotic resistance, no guilt. This is what I want.

Bruce, I just want to eat unlimited amounts of steak and chicken without the little cloud of guilt that hangs over me all the time. Bruce Friedrich, thank you so much. Thanks, love it. When we come back, we test a listener on an aspect of the Olympics, you know, not usually subject to this level of scrutiny, to be honest. And we're back. The thrill of victory, the agony of defeat, the coziness of my couch where I immediately fall asleep when I put on NBC

because their primetime coverage is like 10 seconds of sports in between 20 minutes of ads. We get it. Overcome the odds like Katie Ledecky with State Farm. You know, 20 minutes at a time. But maybe you're a diehard. Catching kayaking on your laptop or watching water polo on your phone and streaming Simone Biles bravely quit on your TV. I'm sorry. I don't mean it.

No, it's not. No. I'm sorry. You don't exist yet, Quinn. You haven't been introduced. All right. So when I make a joke that's going to get me canceled. All right.

You zip it. All right. You just let it happen. But how well do you really know the Olympics? In a game we're calling Screamwork Makes the Dream Work, our guests will have to match the Olympic grunt or scream with the proper sport. The idea of someone playing this game with audio of me at the gym just sent a chill up my spine.

But these are professional grunts. These are gold medal screams. So I am joined now by Quinn. Hi, Quinn. Hello. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. I mean am joined now by Quinn. Hi, Quinn. Hello. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. I obviously don't...

That was just a little joke. People know I'm kidding. I support the difficult decision to... You get it. Yeah. People get it. People come to this. They know where I am generally. Don't you think? I think it'll be fine. So, Quinn, have you been watching the Olympics? Yes, I have. And so I'll just say the diehard fans get... think i think it'll be fine okay yeah so quinn have you been watching the uh the olympics yes i

have and so i'll just say if like the diehard fans get the tv subscription the cord cutter and then you go on nbc olympics you watch it on replay or watch it live you know you don't have to deal with what channel is it on is on usa or is it on nbc you can just do it on nbc olympics wow well so these this is not only a fun game. Those are great tips. Those are great tips. Quinn, quit stalling, all right? I'm sick of this shit. You insulted me during the introduction.

I didn't insult you. Yes, you did. Don't tell me how to feel, all right? My feelings are valid. Yes, they are. Let's start off with a scream. What sport do you think this shriek is from? Was that basketball or volleyball?

Volleyball. That's right. It's the U.S. women's volleyball team winning their game against China thanks to 34 points scored by Jordan Thompson and a ton of cathartic team screams. Next up, we have an Olympic grunt. Tell me, does this grunt feel more like softball or tennis? I'm going to say tennis.

Unfortunately, that's incorrect. It was a softball grunt. That grunt is courtesy of the U.S. women's softball team who did lose the gold to Japan. Next up, this may be my favorite scream since it's a classic Olympic underdog scream. With that hint, which sport do you think this scream is from? Is it water polo or swimming? I'm going to say swimming. That's right. That incredible howl is from Tunisian swimmer, Alphamud Hufnaoui, who won the men's 400 meter gold despite being ranked 16th and almost completely ignored

by the commentators. Yeah. Shameful. He came in as 8th seed. He barely made it. He was in the 8th lane. 8th lane. The worst lane. Do you watch swimming? Do you watch swimming? I watch swimming. Alright, from time to time. Alright. I watch swimming and I think

does swimming choose the bodies or do the bodies choose the swimming? You know what I mean? Like if you put, because right now I am not, shall we say an ectomorph and I like a Phelps as it were. And I wonder like,

had somebody thrown me in a pool and said, this is your life now. Whether you eat depends on what happens here. Would I have longer limbs now, Quinn? Yes or no? Quinn? No. I'm sorry, that's incorrect. Next up, we have, you guessed it, a grunt. This one's kind of easy, okay? Or is it? Is this grunt from handball or table tennis? Table tennis. You got it. You got it. Great job, Quinn.

That is, of course, as you correctly surmised, from Japan's gold-winning mixed doubles table tennis match against China. Upset. Great job. It was an upset. Did you know that? You know this match? Yeah.

You really are a diehard. Yeah. That's cool. You really know your Olympics. Yeah. I've been watching. I, like, stay up and watch this. Like, tonight, I plan to stay up from 1 a.m. to 6 a.m. to watch all the women's soccer games. Or I guess tomorrow morning, I guess. Thank you for being there for Team USA. I turned to Ronan. Ronan and I were debating

whether or not to watch the Olympics because it is hard because you just turn it on. You never know if you're going to get 40 minutes of sports or 40 minutes of inspirational conversations with people whose great skill is not sitting in an interview. You know what I mean? Or great entertainment. So I had this moment where I turned to Ronan

and I was like, are we going to watch Harry Potter or are we going to be fucking patriots? You know what I mean? Next up, we got a real special one. This is special. All right. It's sort of a grunt into a howl. Kind of spooky.

All right. Let's hear the grunt. Was that from tennis or handball, Quinn? I'm going to say handball. Incorrect. That was tennis star Novak Djokovic scoring against Germany's Jan-Leonard Strouff and apparently becoming some kind of a werewolf. He's a character.

What's the Latin for a werewolf? It's like... Lupus something? Yes, something. Lupin. Yeah, didn't you take like eight years of Latin or something? No. I took zero years

of latin i did see a harry potter where that was involved i don't know why i thought you took latin that's so sweet no better speaking of you should speaking of animals here's a grunt where's it from some equestrian thing you're right keep going Keep going. Dressage. You got it. It was. That was a horse. Yes. That was a horse that helped some human win a silver medal, but I think deserves to be called a medal winner. Yeah. Why do the humans get the medal? I don't know. Because the horses are the ones who are dancing.

Or whatever they're doing. Then on the other hand, we don't give the medals to the bobsleds, you know? We give them to the people. You know what I mean? Bobsleds are not animate. They don't have names. You don't name your bobsled. Okay, that's what conveys a soul to you? Weird. Quinn's weird. What is this scream?

What's that scream? Why it's someone winning the triathlon or the discus? The discus hasn't happened yet because track and field is week two. So it has to be the triathlon. Fucking show off. Yes, that was Norway's Christian Blumfeldt

winning the men's triathlon. I'm just sort of glad we cut the audio before he started barfing on the track. Yeah, he had to be wheelchaired off. It was ridiculous because it was so hot and humid. You haven't missed a goddamn beat of this thing. I told you.

What are you? Are you sitting in some sort of command center? Are you like Norad watching this? How many screens are we dealing with? Just one? They do things at the same time. How are you catching all of it? You watched, I told you, NBC Olympics full replays. You don't have to listen to any inspirational crap.

You can play it at 2x speed. You can fast forward through all the people talking and just watch the sports. Final question, Quinn. We've got for you a twofer, which is an Olympic term. Can you tell what sport this grunt and this scream is from? That was the grunt. Now let's hear the scream. Well, Quinn, final question.

Was that judo or was that boxing? Judo. That was Spain's Emmanuel Reyes bringing us home with a knockout win in the men's heavyweight boxing tournament. Quinn, I just want you to know something. We've played a lot of games in this show. Yes. And at the end of every game, somebody wins. All right.

Some of those winners, honestly, they were bumbling oafs. Alright? I don't want to criticize some of the people that have come on the show too much. Alright? I love them all. But some of them, honestly, they couldn't get anything going. Alright? They seemed barely awake. They didn't understand what we were

doing here. I had coffee before this. You came in here. Alright? And you absolutely crushed it. You know everything about the Olympics. You came in here. All right. All right. And you absolutely crushed it. You know everything about the Olympics. You know, some people say things like, oh, I'm obsessed with that. And it just means they saw it once. You know what I mean? Like, I'm obsessed with them. No, you are a fan who is paying attention. All right. You are watching the Olympics. You are supporting your team. You are keeping up. You know what's going on. And I want you to know something.

I have great admiration for you, Quinn. And every future contestant in one of these games, they may be declared a winner, but they will be compared against a great. The Simone Biles of Love It or Leave It, who showed up, frankly.

I did it again. I can't stop doing it because I know it's risky. You know, I know it's touching the stove. It's a Freudian death drive. And I just can't stop myself because people have been such performative, treacly kind of tweeters about it.

You know what I mean? Your true fans know. Your true fans do. Thank you. The Simone Biles of Love It or Leave It. Quinn from San Diego. So lovely to see you. When we come back, we'll end on a high note.

And we're back. Because we all need it this week, here it is, the high note. Hey, Love It. This is Mike from Tampa, Florida. I am a high school math teacher, and I teach in an advanced magnet program. high school math teacher, and I teach in an advanced magnet program. The last year has been really crazy teaching simultaneous hybrid online in class, algebra and pre-calculus and geometry, and that's a mess. But for the first time ever in my school's history, our magnet program had a 100% diploma rate. And that's really incredible and has gotten me really excited for the upcoming school year so uh thanks for everything you do hey love it this is steven

in rochester and my high note this week is a literal high note i play in the symphony orchestra here in rochester and for the first time in a year and a half we are playing concerts again in front of live audiences and we could not have done this without the support of our patrons and our fans here in Rochester, and we are all just thrilled to be making music in front of human beings again. Thanks to all you guys at Crooked, and keep up the good work. Hey, Love It. This is Roxanne in Neptune, New Jersey.

My high note this week is that after 25 long years, I'm finally eligible for applying for my citizenship. I've done everything. I've been a DACA recipient. I've been a Dreamer all this time. And finally, I'm able to apply for citizenship. My application was received, and now I am studying for my civics exam, which is a little bit laughable. So I've been volunteering and writing postcards and phone banking and doing all the things to help our democracy along the way. Thank you for your work

for everyone at Crooked, for everyone who calls in with their high notes every week and keep me motivated. Have a great week. Be well. Take care of yourself. Thank you to everybody who called in. And I just want to say that I have been so appreciating the high notes that everybody has been leaving. They are moving and funny and charming. And I'm just really appreciative of everybody who calls them in. And if you want to leave us a message about something that gave you hope, you can call us at 740-298-5880. Thank you to Rainn Wilson, Reza Aslan, Bruce Friedrich, Jason Concepcion, The Whistle Guy, and everybody who called in. There are 465 days until the 2022 midterm election. Have a great weekend.

Love It or Leave It is a Crooked Media production. It is written and produced by me, John Lovett, and Lee Eisenberg. Kendra James is our senior producer. Kylie Kiefer is our head writer. Jocelyn Kaufman, Pallavi Ganalan, and Peter Miller are the writers. Our associate producer is Brian Semel. Bill Lance is our editor. And Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer. Our theme song is written and performed by Sure Sure.

Thanks to our designers, Jesse McClain and Marissa Meyer, for creating and running all of our visuals, which you can't see because this is a podcast. And to our digital producers, Nara Melkonian and Milo Kim, Mia Kelman and Matt DeGroot for filming and editing video each week so you can.