Lovett or Leave It - Ukraine Clown Posse

Episode Date: October 5, 2019

Adam Scott and Nicole Byer are here to explore another week of high crimes and misdemeanors... after Trump confesses on camera and threatens civil war on Twitter. Plus a GOP megadonor diplomat hates texting about crimes, Mark Zuckerberg worries about Elizabeth Warren in a leaked recording, and UCLA Professor John Zaller joins Jon to discuss public opinion and partisanship in previous impeachment fights. What a week.

Hello, Los Angeles. Look at your beautiful faces. Impeachment, week two. I want to give you guys an update on Fair Fight. We set out to raise $1 million by November 5th for Fair Fight 2020. The organization Stacey Abrams is heading up

to put 20 teams on the ground and 20 battleground states to protect the vote. We did it in two weeks. As of this recording, we have raised $1.1 million. Stacey's overall goal is still $5 million. So if you haven't donated and are feeling left out, go to votesaveamerica.com slash fair fight and chip in $10. This is the most important thing you can do right now to help Democrats win in 2020. Next, I'd like to encourage all of you to check out Abdul Al-Sayed's new podcast,

America Dissected. It's dissecting all kinds of things. Goop. Anti-vaxxers. What happens when politics and culture and healthcare collide? It's entertaining. It's fascinating. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get into it. What a week. News broke just before the show that the White House drafted a statement in August for Ukraine to release that would have committed them to pursuing investigations into Joe Biden.

Yes, this is illegal. But for Trump, illegality is really something he only understands in reference to the fact that he's not allowed to marry Ivanka. It's the only boundary he's really respected. I regret it. I regret it. I regret it. It's important to admit when you've changed and learned and grown. And in the last 30 seconds,

I have. But in a way, maybe I was already aware of the fact that I was not going to want to be the kind of person who made that joke because I didn't commit. ABC reports that a top diplomat wrote to other diplomats into a pretty cool text chain. He said the following, I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign. To which this guy, Gordon Sondland,

who's a Republican mega-donor and a diplomat now himself, replied, Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump's intentions. The president has been crystal clear, no quid pro quos of any kind. But of course, then he responds, and I suggest we stop the back and forth by text. Can we not discuss our crimes in text? Crimes are for the phone.

That's where we do our crimes. This is the Trump administration. We do our crimes on the phone. CNN reported that Trump suggested without prompting that China should investigate Biden. He also brought up Elizabeth Warren. The record of that call is apparently also stored on the super secret server inside the White House where all of the crime calls are kept.

The vault. He also apparently sold out the Hong Kong protesters on that call as well. It was a real doozy. It was a real humdinger. Now, tonight, literally moments ago, Adam Schiff and his fellow committee chairs that are investigating Trump's various impeachable offenses released a trove of documents. The committee released a set of statements and conversations between various Trump administration officials. There is a message from Kurt Volker, the special envoy to Ukraine who resigned the day after this story broke, coincidentally.

Heard from White House, assuming President Xi convinces Trump he will investigate, get to the bottom of what happened in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to Washington. I want to read that again because it's actually all of it in a message. Heard from White House, Trump. Assuming presidency convinces Trump he will investigate slash get to the bottom of what happened in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to Washington. That's it. That's the quid and the pro and the quo in one message. And then another ambassador said, are we now saying that security assistance and White House

meeting are conditioned on investigation? At which point Sondland, we remember him from earlier, who said he didn't want to do this over text, the Republican mega-donor and Trump appointee replied, call me. Now, obviously, when you're going to say, let's not commit crimes, you say, call me. I wonder what they said on the phone.

But it's true. Earlier today, on the White House lawn, Trump asked not only Ukraine but also China to investigate Joe Biden. For those paying attention, those are the crimes he is currently being impeached over. Say what you will about Donald

Trump, but he knows how to play the hits. Let's roll a clip. They should investigate the Bidens because how does a company that's newly formed and all these companies that you look at, and by the way, likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens. Because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine. So I would say that President Zelensky, if it were me, I would recommend that they start an investigation into the Bidens.

That's it. He did it. Blow your whistles. That's a crime. He did a crime. He did it on TV. It's crimes. And it's a huge problem. Foreign interference. It's illegal. The head of the FEC put out a statement being like, illegal. You can't do it. Reminder. Of course, what we are now seeing is a shift,

a subtle tweak in the Republican talking points. The original draft said, it did not happen because it is not good. The new talking points, slightly edited, it is good, and we hope it happens more. Right before Trump went out and did this, Kevin McCarthy, the GOP leader, and man cosplaying as Paul Ryan with a head injury, gave a little note to Nancy Pelosi

saying it's time to suspend the impeachment inquiry. And then Trump just went out to the cameras and admitted to all of it, at which point Nancy Pelosi sends a note back to Kevin McCarthy saying, unfortunately, the president confessed to the crimes on the White House lawn. The impeachment proceeding will continue.

And for those who believe we have fallen into Trump's trap, I would point you to his press conference slash tantrum slash bullying session with the leader of Finland who really drew the short straw in terms of visit schedule. Real kind of bum steer on that one. He'll be held to pay when he gets back to Oslo. Fuck. Ah. There'll be hell to pay when he gets back to Helsinki.

I knew it was wrong. Let's just watch the clip. You know it, and so do we. Go ahead, ask a question. The question, sir, was what did you want President Zelensky to do about Vice President Biden and his son, Hunter? Are you talking to me? Yeah, it was just a follow up of what I just asked you, sir.

Listen, you ready? We have the president of Finland. Ask him a question. I have one for him. I just wanted to follow up on the one that I asked you. Did you hear me? Did you hear me? Yes, sir.

Ask him a question. I will, but... I've given you a long answer. Ask this gentleman a question. Don't be rude. Ask the president of Finland a question, please. Okay, I'll move on now. You son of a bitch. You asked the president of Finland a question.

You asked this passive-aggressive dick who has insulted me backhandedly three times throughout this event a question. I got to stand here next to some European dweeb who hates me in front of all of you who hate me in the middle of my crime spree. Ask him a question. I wanted to goose the apprentice ratings in 2017.

That's how we got here. My son is giving $50,000 speeches at the University of Florida. That's not what billionaires do. We gotta get back to work here. I got condos to build. This is not part of the plan. I can't go to jail after this.

Ask him a question. The little dweeb, the one who was kind of rude to me and slotted my hand away earlier. Hate this job. I don't even know what Finland is. Ask him a question. By the way, that was a great question.

And it was a great question because the answer is a crime. When we come back, we'll have Adam Scott and Nicole Byer. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. And we're back! She's the host of Netflix's Nailed It,

and the podcast Why Won't You Date Me and Best Friends. Please welcome Nicole Byer. Hi, Nicole. Hello. I'm a little bit under the weather, so I'm trying not to hug everybody. Oh, I see. How are you? I'm good.

I was so confused. I know. I was like, why are you giving me your elbow? It's a disheartening way to be greeted on a stage. Yeah, it was borderline hate crime. Like, I really hated it. So good to see you. It's good to see you.

I'm so sorry if people notice. There's like holes all over my leggings. Like I look like a little trash dumpster. Sorry. Disagree. Thank you. And our next guest, he's a senior fellow at the Brookings Institute. Please welcome Adam Scott.

Hi, Adam. Hey, John. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. Hi, Nicole. Hello. We're feuding. We are.

We're not friends right now. Oh, my God. Tension on the set. This is a deep couch. It is. Get comfortable. This is if I'm sitting all the way back. I'm a big baby.

I want juice. I want juice. I have trouble sitting in chairs myself. It's often people tweet at me, why can't you just sit in a chair? And it's because I believe that the distance from the back of a chair to where your knees are designed for a six foot two man. It's patriarchy. The chairs are patriarchy.

it's patriarchy. The chairs are patriarchy. And so for anyone like me, you know, a 5'7 Jewish person who's lying and is actually a little bit shorter, I was measured by a nurse practitioner. And she said,

I was 5'6 and 3 quarters inches. And I said, do you believe it would be a lie under oath to say I was 5'7"? And she just went, it's 2019, buddy. Under oath doesn't mean what it used to mean. Say whatever you want.

Wow. She was cool. I love her. That's awesome. Impeachment. Yeah. Yeah. Adam Scott.

Yeah. The president did confess on camera today. However, it's running kind of headlong into a challenge we face, which is we're built for scandals in which journalists uncover things. They do some digging, and they come up with a scoop, and the scoop reveals some nefarious conduct, and it's exposed, and that's how we get at the truth. But then the president has discovered this incredible technique

of tweeting the crimes or saying the crimes on camera and kind of rendering them moot, or as he would say, moat. No digging necessary. No digging necessary. How do we grapple with that, that, you know, Trump is deep throat? Yeah, he's his own. He's his own. Is this his real war against journalism is that he's doing their job for them? It's true. He's rendering them useless? Yes. Oh, you got a good scoop?

How about this? I'll confess on camera in front of a helicopter that makes it so we can't even hear your fucking voices. Crimes, everybody. Yeah, it's extraordinary. He confirmed the crime he committed that we've all been talking about for nine days. And then he introduced a new crime right afterwards.

And he's like, okay, that's it. I'll see you later. I'm going to step on. And I don't know if you saw, I don't know why I saw this stock footage or like on the Washington Post when their videos end and they just let the video play under their credits but he dropped all that crazy shit and then walked to the to the helicopter and they stayed on him and I watched him walk all the way get on and watch

the thing take off and it took him for fucking ever to walk to the helicopter because he's so profoundly depressed. I think he's just taking his time looking around and then saying hi to the guys, you know, saluting. But it took literally like 70 seconds for him just to walk to it. Anyway, almost as long

as what I just did talking-wise. He also had a similar walk when he ended the conference with the Finnish president and he just said, okay, bye. And then he turned and just, his posture has gotten very bad.

Yeah, he's sick. He's not well. Yeah. He's not well, Nicole. How's impeachment, how's it working for you? Okay, here's the thing. I don't really understand impeachment. I'm pretty politically stupid.

I know Bill Clinton was impeached, but then was, like, still president, so, like, what's up? Well, so, Nicole. Yes. It is true, right? That's a, people think, I think there is a misconception out there that when you impeach a president, the president's removed. But actually all it is is you impeach the president and that leads to a trial in the

Senate in which 67 senators would have to convict the president to have them removed from office. Bill Clinton was impeached. There was a trial in the Senate. Fun fact, Lindsey Graham, one of the floor managers of impeachment, to protect the integrity of the office. Well, fun fact. But there was

a trial and he was acquitted. We've, in fact, never had a president removed from office due to impeachment. It's happened twice and they both stayed in office. Is that correct? Yes. Well, it's happened technically twice. Nixon was right on the fucking cusp, and he's like,

I've got to get out of here because they're going to kick me the fuck out, and I want my pension. That's real. He was going to be convicted and removed. Oh, yeah, because he did all of it. Yeah, he was a bad dude. Well, guess who's worse? Huh?

It's so bad. All right. Would you guys like to play a game? Yeah. I love games. Yeah. Yes. Earlier this week,

which in Trump time is 400 years ago, the president tweeted that, quote, if the Democrats are successful in removing the president from office, which they never will be, it will cause a civil war fracture in this nation from which our country will never heal. This tweet is pretty terrifying,

not only because it's a threat, but also because right-wing extremism is on the rise all over the country, but it also got us thinking, what would our civil war actually be like? So I did what any good political podcast would do. I asked Ronan to investigate, and he came back from the future with a few letters that were sent home from the

battlefield. One series of letters is from a Trump separatist and one from a Union Democrat. And we thought we'd read those letters to you now in a segment we're calling Civil War 2, 2 Civil 2 War. Adam and Nicole have graciously agreed to read those letters as famous celebrities

and a great duo for a future USO tour to entertain troops at the Civil War Battlefront in Portland. Adam... It's like a two-hour flight. It's not bad. It's not bad. It's not bad. Adam will be reading the role of a Trump separatist. Nicole will be reading the role of a Democratic Union soldier. Adam, kick us off. Sure. My dearest wife, there was a buzz in the air at the Papa John's

where we convened on the eve of the great battle. I'm sorry to have not written sooner, but all of our phones were given over to the task of manufacturing memes with MAGAPEPE101, Trump Train 69-420, and, of course, my commanding officer, Newt Gingrich. Spirits are high. We have seen the enemy in their skinny jeans from afar, but have not yet engaged. We will not fire until we see the whites in their AirPods. But we feel confident, for the enemies are, of course, betas and vegans who work out five

times a week and go off again on again keto. Beef powers our cause we hope there won't be too much running besides our Ford F-150s will cut through those Chevy Volts like butter I will rest now as the light in my tent grows dim Twitter has switched over to night mode

Commandant Ted Cruz's beard grows longer by the day my tent grows dim. Twitter has switched over to night mode. Commandant Ted Cruz's beard grows longer by the day. It gives me no comfort. All my love, Adam. My love, I feel compelled to write a few lines that may find you should the end of civility claim my life, as it has so many others. I hope you still have access to the people's media. Now this news, word is spreading. The neutral party is led by Mitt Romney and Joe Manchin finally stood up to the Trump separatists

and declared this war unacceptable and beyond the pale. Yet I am still terrified. Fighting has reached Burbank. Most of Leno's cars gone. I look across my unit of actors and TV writers, and I think, I'm so, so dead.

We've conspired Mark Hammond of NCIS. Our hope is now that Trump's army of baby boomers will crest Laurel Canyon and panic at the sight of him. My understanding is Mark Hammond is worshipped in Trump land like some kind of god. It's hard to know what's true anymore. What news to trust, but pray that it is so. My love, pray that baby boomers won't kill Mark Hammond. Harmon, oh boy. Writing is hard and so is reading. Oh, and if you fuck someone else, it's fine. I fucked one of the actors from Riverdale. They're here, too, Nicole. My dear partner, the stench of combat and Chick-fil-A fills the air.

I yearn for the comforts of home. Our tents are small and our Wi-Fi intermittent. We have not even enough uniforms to go around. There is but one MAGA hat for every three men. The hat I have been issued is one which, from a distance, appears to be a MAGA hat, but is in truth a parody hat reading, Make America Gay Again. In tragic news, Colonel Jacob Wohl has been shadow banned. Tensions have risen at camp between the Facebook army and the 8chan faction,

risen at camp between the Facebook army and the 8chan faction, mostly about when dinner should be. I think 5.30 is too early. Our older compatriots say it's 6 by the time we're actually eating, so it's fine. But they don't understand that we're up much later gaming, so we end up eating again. Plus, a bunch of people died because no one is vaccinated. Paranoia has gripped many. Around every corner, behind every bush, we fear it. A word only whispered. Antifa. I miss you every day, but to be absolutely clear,

I still refuse to go to therapy. Adam. My dearest love, I have no misgivings about the cause in which I am engaged, and yet I am stricken by the speed at which our fragile peace unraveled. How quickly lines were drawn. How is Taylor Swift on our side and Scarlett Johansson on theirs? Provisions run low. PewDiePie.

PewDiePie. I've seen his name so many times and I'm like, I don't know. It's good that you don't know. Say it again. PewDiePie. A pewdiepie. Cut off a key. good that you don't know. Okay. Say it again. PewDiePie. A pewdieperr will

cut off a key oat milk supply route. There is cow's milk, but no lactaid. No lactaid! Oh, but morale is on the rise.

There are millions more of us, and we have Dwayne Wade. He rallied almost every professional athlete to our cause, except Tom Brady. We are all hiding on the CBS lot in Bill Maher's old office. Rumor is he fled to the capital of Trump's republic, Jacksonville, Florida. Don Jr.'s forces have been dropping leaflets and disinformation over America's cities via drone after the peace agreement between Amazon and the Trump regime. Mostly they're just bad op-eds from the New York Times, but they really drive us crazy. They're so bad.

It's such an important platform. Frustrating! Yours in life and love, Nicole. My sweet. I find myself consumed with thoughts of the past. One day you're tweeting a video of Trump punching the CNN logo at Don Lemon because he has to fucking learn. And then all of a sudden you're marching on Williamsburg, Brooklyn with a bunch of guys who keep talking about how all their training prepared them for this. And it is very, very clear they mean Fortnite.

prepared them for this, and it is very, very clear they mean Fortnite. What's odd is, I can't remember why I was so angry. Feels like a lifetime ago. A bunch of people fled in the night with Ted Cruz, who saw the writing on the wall after an entire battalion gave up when an escalator broke down and they were forced to use them like normal stairs. They said they were going to surrender to Rachel Maddow's lesbian gendarmerie in Hoboken. I may join. I just wanted to make fun of Beto O'Rourke. It wasn't supposed to go this far. Until we meet again, Adam. Adam. My love,

it is over. It is over! The Trump separatists have fled. Praise be our fearless leader, Greta Thunberg. She's a maniac. I saw her pop up through a manhole cover

behind 40 white nationalists and fuck them up. She moves like a cat. Now, I know how she could sail to America. That little freak can breathe underwater. You haven't lived until you've seen a fully grown man in all black tactical gear piss himself because a 14-year-old Scandinavian just scrambled over the roof

of his Nissan Rogue, ripped off his Confederate flag, and used it to hand-glide through an open window at Fox News headquarters to force Jessica Waters to read a statement re-entering the Paris Climate Agreement and surrounding the general uh-oh, Elio

Omar. How do I say that? It's Elon Omar and Jesse Waters. Ooh, I love words. Peace. Yours in glorious libtard victory, Nicole. Guys, thank you to Adam and Nicole

for performing our Civil War letters. When we come back, a game. Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. And we're back. While the country has been focused on impeachment, that hasn't stopped the Democratic presidential primary from continuing.

And one of the biggest stories of the week surrounded some leaked audio where Mark Zuckerberg appeared to call out Elizabeth Warren as an existential threat to the company. The other existential threat is, of course, if Universal decided to wipe out 65% of Facebook content by making a copyright claim on Minion memes. The fact that the audio was leaked makes everything Zuckerberg said sound nefarious, but the truth is a lot of... The Minion memes got me! But the truth is a lot of these Silicon Valley types have said much worse out in the open. In fact, they've said so many crazy things, we don't think you'll be able to tell what's real and what's fake in a lightning round game we call A Million Dollars Isn't Cool.

You know what's cool? Making so much money you lose touch with reality, but not with the best cocaine money can buy, which is a bad combo. Because, of course, deep down, you're still just a big old computer dork, and you know it. Would someone out there like to play the game? Yes. Hi, what's your name? My name is Josh. Josh.

Yes. If the quote is real, say real. If it's fake, say fake. Okay. Are you ready? Yes.

Mark Zuckerberg said, look, at the end of the day, if Elizabeth Warren is going to try to threaten something that existential, you go to the mat and you fight. True.

Yes. Elon Musk said, my family fears that the Russians will assassinate me. True. True. Jack Dorsey said, I'm learning how Genghis Khan would lead a startup. True. Yes. Mark Zuckerberg said, if I could have one food for the rest of my life, I think it'd

be ketchup. False. Yes. James Damore, a Google executive said, we need to stop assuming that gender gaps imply sexism. True. Yes. Marcus Person, the creator of Minecraft, said,

If you're against the concept of a heterosexual pride day, you're a complete fucking cunt and deserve to be shot. True. Yes. Bill Gates said, I can kill whoever I want to get away with it. If you're alive now, it's because I don't want you dead. I wish it was true, but it's false.

It's false. Mark Zuckerberg said, you can be unethical and still be legal, and that's the way I live my life, ha ha. False. No, that's true. Come on. The Google CEO said,

before you accept a job here, you should ask yourself a question. Would you kill yourself to save a computer? True. No, that's fake. Jeff Bezos said, my dream was to help people to buy their sex toys at the same place

they buy their groceries. False. Correct. Mark Zuckerberg said, brain-computer interface is an exciting idea. The field quickly branches into two approaches,

invasive and non-invasive. Invasive being things that require surgery or implants but have an advantage that is actually in your brain so you can get more signal. True.

Yes. Twitter's Jack Dorsey said, I fell in love with Floor of all types, especially ferns. True. True. Elon Musk said, We are living in the simulation, so technically there are no homeless people.

True. No. Mark Zuckerberg said, Have you seen the West Wing? I want you to watch it. True. Yes. Marcus Person, the creator of Minecraft, said,

Q is legit. Don't trust the media. True. Yes. True. Yes. Marcus Person, the creator of Minecraft, said, Q is legit, don't trust the media. True. Yes. No. Yes. Jack Dorsey of

Twitter said, wow, Avatar was breathtaking, see it. True. You did it. Josh,

you did great. Incredible. How great did Josh did? So good. I'm so proud of you, Josh.

I'm proud of myself. Really well, really good. When we come back, we'll have an interview. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It or Leave It coming up. Love It or Leave It is brought to you by Noom.

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Please welcome Professor John Zoller. Good to see you. Thanks for being here. So, one of the things you've written a great deal about is how public opinion is shaped by the various party interests that unfold in a scandal like this. Can you just talk a little bit about how you see people reacting to the fact that we have the president now today basically saying that he wants China and Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden, while we have

Democrats basically calling this an impeachable offense and Republicans, some conceding that this is incredibly dangerous, others towing the party line. How does that affect how ordinary observers of our process react? Well, from a political science perspective, I'd say that public opinion is going to be shaped by probably two main things. One is partisanship. You know, the Republicans are going to stand by their president. The president has done a lot of good Republican things, and they're going to stand by him as long as they possibly can. And then the other thing, a pretty big factor that people haven't really noticed is, well, they haven't noticed, the economy. The economy is really very good.

The one president who was successfully not quite impeached but driven from office during impeachment, Nixon, that impeachment took place in the fall of 74 in the worst economic recession that we had had between the end of World War II and the Great Recession. If you look at a graph of downturns, that was like the peak. And Nixon was very unfortunate that the impeachment process came to a head right at that time. And under those conditions and with a smoking gun, with as much smoke coming out as on the White House lawn today where he confessed to the crime,

I mean the smoking gun tape where Nixon ordered the cover-up, 60% of the Americans under all those circumstances wanted Nixon to leave office. Compared to now, the economy is good. Our other impeachment was Clinton, and he was lucky enough to come up for impeachment when the economy was very good. Seventy-nine percent of voters in 1998 said that they believed that Clinton had perjured himself in his grand jury testimony, and only 40 percent wanted him to leave office. Some of that's the difference in the crime, but I think a lot of it's the difference in the economy. And the economy right now is similar's the difference in the economy. And the economy right now is similar to the economy that Clinton had.

So that's going to be a big factor. We've also, though, seen pretty quickly a shift on public opinion around impeachment. Crooked Media released a poll today looking at voters in Arizona showing a rise in support for impeachment. Another poll that came out found that even as impeachment grows stronger, right, and right now it's becoming a kind of split issue, there's a sizable portion of voters who say they oppose impeachment because they believe it's bad politics for Democrats, which is another way of saying they personally view impeachment as a morally just thing, but they worry about the implications. They worry others don't support it, so they're hesitant to support it. Do you view that as a new kind of effect of the way people get their political news now,

the kind of punditry we're kind of drowning in all the time that leads people to try to evaluate things like they're pundits, not as voters? You know, the people in this room and who read the national press, they're into every detail of it. Most voters are, you know, much more into their lives. They know that this is going... Wow, making a lot of friends up here.

There's different layers of a country's politics and there's the top layer and then there's the rest of the people who are mostly not involved. Sometimes they do get involved. That's a big deal when they do. They elected the president. That was a big deal. Right. Even in the weeks before Nixon finally resigns, greater than 50 percent of Republicans opposed impeachment. Right. Wasn't it only until the very end? I'm not. I was looking

for a poll to show on that point. I couldn't find it, but I'm sure you're right. Well, 60 percent favored him leaving office, counting the Democrats as like 100% for leaving office and independents is probably leaning that way. You're probably right. Yes, that's right. Most Republicans stood by Nixon. And, you know, support for impeachment is growing. But as of this morning, Trump's approval rating or disapproval rating had not budged. And that's Republicans are still approving of him at the same rate that they have. So the movement that's happened toward impeachment has been among Democrats and among independents. And I think it's going to be hard to move Republican legislators, senators, as long as their base is steadfastly for Trump. And Trump has been astute

in giving all of the different Republican groups what they want. You want, you know, hospitals not to have to do abortions. You get that. You want the embassy in Jerusalem. You want a wall. You want no gun control. He's given, given like all of the Republican groups what they want and they appreciate it and they're sticking with their guy so you know one of the things that we've said is that's the value of impeachment over a series

of big public hearings and investigations I think that's been borne out just in the last week and a half that moving from a potential impeachment inquiry to an impeachment inquiry part driven by the fact that the scandal is so much simpler and has been so much more brazen, but also driven by the fact that Democrats went from debating impeachment to committing to impeachment. We've seen a shift in public opinion. Do you not think that over several months of intensive focus on these issues and Republicans under scrutiny from constituents and from the

media about these kind of brazen abuses, do you not think it is possible, despite the headwinds you're talking about, to see a shift even on the Republican side? Well, you know, brazen abuses is one view of it, you know, and the other view of it is that it was just a little, not very much. So over the course of the Nixon impeachment, under these very serious conditions, economic conditions that I described, public opinion slowly moved against him. For Clinton, under a much better economy, his standing actually improved with the public

over the course of those things. Now, lying about sex is not the same thing as trying to bug your opponents or what Trump has done. But to some people, it's not the same thing as trying to bug your opponents or what Trump has done. But to some people, it's not the same. But to some kinds of people, perjury, violating an oath to God and all that, it's not the people in this room, but there's a lot of people in the country. You know, it's a diverse country, and people have different ideas about what's a brazen crime.

Based on your sort of reading of various impeachment inquiries in history, what do you think Democrats right now should be doing differently? Nancy and the Democrats are kind of caught in the middle. There's their base, which wants them to impeach Trump, but is going to vote Democratic no matter what, and might defeat in the primaries some Democrats if they don't impeach Trump. And then she's also got to be concerned about the swing voter. And so she also can't fall too far behind her base. So she's triangulating

or trying to strike the right middle ground. And for right now, I think she's doing fine. The danger for her is that it's going to go too far and people are going to get sick of it. And they're going to be more sick of the Democrats than they are mad at Trump and she's got to make that call and that's going to be a hard thing for her to do because either she goes ahead and risks one thing or she falls behind and makes the other side that she could lose the leadership the last two Republican speakers have essentially been thrown out from not moving their party to a successful outcome of what it cared about. She's trying to do a difficult thing, but she's doing fine right now. And then one last question. So obviously we talked about the politics of impeachment, but

impeachment as a tool for reining in the president, whether it leads to a resignation or simply kind of brushes the president back. Do you view what's happening now as an important use of impeachment in reigning in a presidency? This president is more reigned in than people recognize. The Supreme Court has turned down a lot of his stuff. He's had a lot of, Kavanaugh got through, but he's had a lot of nominees turned down. They don't even come to hearings and it doesn't getavanaugh got through, but he's had a lot of nominees turned down. They don't even come to hearings, and it doesn't get on the front page, but they're withdrawn. The whistleblower is the professional intelligence community brought this whole thing on. Much more than the media, the whistleblower did this.

And there's a lot of professionals and people with different responsibilities in the government who are doing their job. This president is not running, he's making a lot of noise and he's doing some things that I don't think are good, that are not good. They're not good, yeah, no. Well, I'm a political scientist. I've just got to try to stay in the middle. But he's been constrained and this is going to be another constraint. So I'm sorry to, I slightly reject your premise that he's, you know, that he needs, I mean, he needs constraining, but he's getting a lot of it, a lot more than people recognize. Like the Senate voted unanimously to request the whistleblower report, all of them.

They wanted to know, and they're watching it. There was a Newsweek story last week that a Republican consultant was quoting a Republican senator saying that he thinks that 30 of the Republican senators still hold essentially the view that Lindsey Graham held before the start of Trump's presidency when he said that Trump was crazy, morally unfit to hold office, and a kook or something like that. That's what Lindsey Graham said before Trump was elected president. I guarantee you he still thinks that, and there's about 30 who still think that. Well, the problem is what they say in private doesn't help us

if they won't say it or act on it in public. I disagree with that. Where is Jeff Flake and what good is he doing us right now? Where is Bob Corker and what good are they doing us right now? Those were Republicans who spoke out, got too far ahead of their troops,

and now they're replaced by Trump people. Great. I wish that they had kept their powder dry. Wow. Look at this countervailing information at Love It or Leave It, testing our assumptions. Professor John Zoller, thank you for being here. When we come back, the rant wheel.

Don't go anywhere. This is Love It or Leave It, and there's more on the way. And we're back. Now it's time for the rant wheel. You know how it works. We'll spin the wheel wherever it lands. We'll rant about the topic. This week on the wheel, we have drugs, the new film Joker,

Nickelback, a 12-person debate, treason, polite journalists, Kevin McCarthy, and foldable phones. Let's spin the wheel. It has landed on Joker.

I am very frustrated with press tours before movies where the people trying to promote the movie make the movie something I don't want to see. There's a lot of consternation around this Joker film, but when I saw the trailer, the first thing I thought of was the Martin Scorsese film, The King of Comedy. And I thought I'm going to ignore the conversation and I'm going to go see it without having read anything, because I like doing that.

I like going in fresh. I consider all reviews spoilers. I wore earplugs to see The Force Awakens, because I didn't want to hear any spoilers from people leaving the theater when I went into the theater. The problem was, I was so excited to see it that I was desperately ignoring the fact that I had a terrible case of food poisoning. And so I ended up with earplugs, projectile vomiting, Pepto-Bismol inside the bathroom at the Chinese theater

while little children discussed the movie all around me. And I went, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, trying to not hear what they were saying. I then went home and drank Gatorade without checking Twitter for 48 hours until I was healthy enough to go see The Force Awakens. And I didn't even get to see it in IMAX laser. I had to go to the fucking dome. Now, back to the Joker. So I'm avoiding reading about all this because I just want to see the movie and see what it's like on its own. I'm avoiding reading about all this because I just want to see the movie and see what it's like on its own.

I'm interested. And then all of a sudden I see the director, Todd Phillips, say that the reason he made The Joker is that woke culture made it impossible to make comedies. And I found that to be very stupid. One main reason I found it to be very stupid is that there's a lot of comedies.

There's comedies all over the place. It's a really good time for comedy. I just watched the Emmys, and it was like, oh, they're all such good shows. Every show is good now. In any other year, these shows would all win. They're some of the best comedies ever made, all on television right now.

I go to Netflix, and it's just comedy special, comedy special, comedy special. We're in a boom. I'm laughing all the time. Can't stop laughing. And so then it's like, special, comedy special, comedy special. We're in a boom. I'm laughing all the time. Can't stop laughing. And so then it's like, well, oh, actually, woke culture didn't kill comedy. It killed the middle budget film comedy.

I don't think that's right. I don't think that the PC police are that tactical. Also, the Joker being a man is insulting. The Joker should be a woman, okay? His foundation is what? Two shades, three shades being a man is insulting. The Joker should be a woman. His foundation is what? Two shades? Three shades lighter than it should be? The makeup is smeared and they're rubbing up against a world that did

him dirty? That's a woman. Do you know? Yeah. Why isn't the Joker a woman? Yeah. Should be a sad, fat lady who's like, I'll get you all. I want to remake it right now. With Nicole.

I'll do it. I'll be the Joker. With Nicole Byer. Like, ha, ha, ha. I finally broke. That is such a good movie. Oh, yeah. That's a good movie.

I want Nicole Byer as a Joker. And as I've said many times on this fucking stage, I want a gay Flash or a gay somebody in one of those Marvel movies. Yeah. Yes. I want Spider-Man to be gay. Honestly, that would be so funny. Like, the Joker's gay friend's like,

girl, you don't have to. Like, just take a breath, have some tea. I'm gonna kill Gotham. Anyway. See, we just did a comedy fuck that man what's his name will we ever laugh again

Nicole with this woke culture I don't know unfucking believable check out Fleabag Todd see if you see if you chuckle that's the specials on Netflix

about how you can't do comedy anymore. What's that about? That doesn't make any sense. Let's spin it. This one's mine! It's landed on drugs. Yes! I hate how we do drug education in America!

It makes no sense to tell kids, don't take drugs. Drugs seem like so much fun. What we should do is take kids to the street and be like, that lady having the time of her life talking to herself, wearing no clothes. Do you want to be like her? No? Don't do drugs! It's so insane to me to tell someone not to do something when they're obviously going to do it. Also, the fact

that we don't have safe injection sites is insane. It makes me so angry. People are going to do it. Why not help them, you know, be safe while doing it? Also, drugs, it's not like you're weak and you end up doing drugs. Drugs are a thing that are, I love drugs. You know, there's just some drugs I'm not going to do because I think that's not for me. But like, some people, it's for them, but we shouldn't just let them die on the streets. That's inhumane and it makes me so upset.

Every time I go to San Francisco, I leave so depressed because it's just like in our faces and it's a bunch of rich people being like, we don't like it. It's like, well, help them. Just help them. That's... rich people being like we don't like it it's like we'll help them just help them yes i was so sort of a rule abiding kid and so i remember so you go through all the drug free smoke free things which i abided completely and there was a moment where i saw a movie or something on television where someone said something like, oh, I do drugs because they're really fun. And I was like, oh, there is, I'm so stupid.

There's an upside. Like, drugs to me as a kid were the most impossible to understand thing because it was like, yeah, clearly don't do them. Look what they do to you. They kill you and make your life bad. And it wasn't until I was much older that it was like yeah clearly don't do them look what they do to you they kill you and make your life bad and it wasn't until i was much older it was like oh they're really dangerous but they draw you in because of how fun they are and that's the thing you have to educate people about how dangerous the fun is if fun goes too far and mental health maybe you're trying to mask something that's

actually wrong in your brain like maybe you have depression and you're trying to mask something that's actually wrong in your brain. Maybe you have depression and you're trying to hide that with shooting up or whatever. So if we made mental health easily accessible to people, maybe drug addiction would go down. Why aren't we spending money trying to figure out addiction? It's something, I don't know,

it really fucks me up. Let's spin it again. It has landed on polite journalists. I was thinking about how, my thing was, why are journalists, when they're confronted with Trump, when they're in person with Trump, why do they revert some of them to this ultra polite, their deferential in person? And, you know, I grew up with Sam Donaldson, who is a total prick in the press briefing room, which was great.

They should all be pushing this guy for answers. And then after I sent that in as my topic, I rewatched the Jim Acosta confrontation, which was much more confrontational than I remember it from a year ago or whatever. And I was also impressed with a few other journalists in the room who joined forces with him, really stuck up for him. So it's too much of a blanket statement. But I do find sometimes I'm just deeply disappointed in how deferential and polite these journalists are when they're in his face. And they could, you know, Chuck Todd, when he had a whole hour with that guy and didn't do anything with it. Sorry.

No, I think that's right. I mean, I actually think one thing that's been interesting to watch in just the past few weeks is fucking Chuck Todd has had enough. Yeah. Chuck Todd is angry and he is doing a he's doing a pretty good job of sort of laying it out there. It's been really impressive to watch. I think the other piece of it, is, like I agree with you,

when I was watching the, and look, I don't, I think it's an incredibly stressful and high stakes situation to be bullied in real time by the president in front of the Finnish president and all your colleagues on national television. And I did find myself wishing that reporter, who I think

actually asked a really good question, which is, what did you want the Ukrainians to do, right? Which is a question I think Trump asked a really good question, which is, what did you want the Ukrainians to do? Which is a question I think Trump got upset about and why he was like, ask Finland a question, ask Finland a question. Of course, then Jeff Mason did and then Trump just interrupted. And then the guy from Finland was like, I believe the question was for me. That's terrible.

I can't even come close to a Norwegian accent. I do two accents, deep Eastern Europe and high Eastern Europe. What'd I say? Fuck! Scandinavian is what I was going for. Oh my god, fucking Jesus Christ, fucking

Alex Trebek in the front row. The point I was making. Oh, you're so offended. I will say Chuck Dodd has been stepping up in the past couple weeks and it has been interesting watching it

because it's meet the press. I have such high expectations for that seat. And so I mean, in my brain, I'm hard on him. So who gives a shit? But it has been interesting

watching him kind of maybe fall into a role. I don't know, but it is interesting. No, it is. Well, all I was going to say before I was interrupted by fucking the Encyclopedia Britannica in the front row was, I'm sorry, you're right, and I know better, and you know I know,

and you know that I appreciated you shouting it, but now I'm making you part of the show because I'm angry. I'm angry at myself. I'm heckling the little boy inside who could do the Sporkle quiz where I name every country on planet Earth. Yes, Sporkle.

Shut up. Alright. The point I was gonna make. There's so many countries. So many countries. Too many., too many, surprising number. Wait, a Sporkle quiz? There's a quiz where you can try to name every country on Earth from memory. And it's called Sporkle?

That's the website that's getting a lot of free ads in this ranch. But all I was going to say, all I was going to say, here's what you do. They do each continent. So you start working on your continents, get some good scores there, then you move to the big map.

Are you saying you think you could do this, Jones? I could do it at a time. I can't do it now. Someone pull up Sparkle! The point I was trying to make was that I found myself wishing somebody in that briefing room, when

barked at by the president, would say, I'm sorry, sir, but I don't work for you. Yes. Which is the thing that was missing. Yes. And because one of the things that is so frustrating about Donald Trump, it's not even a criticism of the reporters, what is frustrating about Donald Trump is he gets to cloak himself

in the power and majesty that we have built, and I think built too strongly, into the presidency. So he stands at that podium, and he is carrying the full weight of the institution of the presidency when he has absolutely no respect for so that when he is barking a command, or when he is issuing instructions to the fucking president of Ukraine, he does it with the full backing of his White House. But in moments like that, I kind of want to go back to first principles and say, yeah, we've added a lot of pomp here. And there a bright gold curtain behind them and we've imbued so much authority into this role.

But ultimately, this is a public servant and you are a journalist and it is your job to pressure them and they are not in any kind of position to issue commands to you. And I think sometimes we forget that in our politics generally because of the imperial presidency that we have all collectively built, which we should start to unbuild once we get this guy out. Anyway. Yeah, like when he said,

ask him a question, and then he does, and he's like, did you hear me? Ask him. It's like, dude, fuck you. Yeah, how about fuck you? I got a question for you.

I got a question for you. Can you go fuck yourself? That'd have been something. Oh, that would be great. It'd be a real treat. I would love for someone to say that to him. Ugh, what a nightmare. Let's spin it again.

It has landed on 12-person debate. Okay, so the next Democratic debate is coming up, and I feel very conflicted about it because it was nice having all the candidates on one stage, but now that Tom Steyer and Tulsi Gabbard have qualified, candidates on one stage, but now that Tom Steyer and Tulsi Gabbard have qualified, it looks like we are on track for 12 people on the stage

all at once. Is anyone here excited about that? No! I am. I am. One person. Did you come here directly from the DNC? I don't want to... Look, I feel like the DNC is eating so much shit for this the DNC? I don't want to...

Look, I feel like the DNC is eating so much shit for this debate stuff, and I don't envy them because it's like, how do you figure out how to manage all these different candidates? But it does seem a disservice that we're going to end up with 12 people vying for a few minutes of airtime over two hours. I don't know how elucidating that would be.

And I understand the problem of going back to six and six. But how many people here would prefer six and six? How many people here would prefer six and six where the debate was one night and they were just six and six but shorter debates? Yeah. I think 12 people on one stage is a mistake, especially now because I do think one of the most important things we're going to see in this next debate is we're going to see how these candidates grapple with the fact that we are now in a sort of different political time.

This will be the first time all these candidates will be on one stage discussing impeachment. And it's thorny, right, because these people are running to replace Donald Trump, regardless of what happens with impeachment. And it's thorny, right? Because these people are running to replace Donald Trump, regardless of what happens with impeachment. And they're going to have to figure out how to carry a message about that. You know, when we were on stage in Seattle, we had the Lieutenant Governor of Washington. The point he made that I thought was really strong was now that we are in impeachment, this is a real test to see which of the candidates on that stage can find something bigger and hopeful and inspiring and unifying in our positive message as we have this kind of terrible political fight we have to have in Congress. And whoever can best represent that is, I think, in a good position to carry the mantle of all of us into this fight in November. And this will be the first time that they have the opportunity to do that. And so I want to end on a high note because I want to show a clip of what happened.

I believe earlier today when Jody earned Senator from Iowa was confronted by one of her constituents. Can we roll the clip? Where is the line? When are you guys going to say enough and stand up and say, you know what? I'm not backing any of this. Okay. So President Trump, I can say yay, nay, whatever.

The president is going to say what the president is going to do. It's up to us as members of Congress to continue working with our allies, making sure that we remain strong in the face of adversity. But where, I mean, I understand it's a non-answer answer. I really like that clip because I think, you know, look, I don't think we know how impeachment is going to turn out. I think we're all very surprised how the previous two weeks have unfolded. I think it'd be foolish to pretend we could know what the next two weeks will hold in store.

That said, I find that incredibly heartening because what I see is somebody genuinely on their heels trying to react to a crisis in which they feel as though they have two competing objectives to not get on Trump's bad side while not saying things they believe are obviously false or morally reprehensible, which means being it making it impossible to stay on Trump's good side. That to me is, I think, one of the hopeful signs of the past two weeks. Yes, you know, as our interview guest said, Republicans have held the line and probably will continue to do so. There are many larger forces at work here. But when I see a clip like that, I see somebody who is uncomfortable with the position that impeachment has put them in, and has put them on their heels, forced to react to a scandal that everyone in that room, everyone in this room, everyone who sees that clip knows is somebody who doesn't want to say what they really think, which is what they see Donald Trump doing is wrong,

but politically they don't know whether or not they're in a position to tell the truth about it. And as long as we can keep that story out there and keep that story alive while the Democratic primary is unfolding, while our Democratic candidates are out there making the case for themselves, I think we're in a pretty good position, and I think that's been one of the exciting developments of the past two weeks, and it should leave us feeling

energized and kind of ready for the fight in 2020, because for the first time we see Republicans across the country on their heels, and I think that's a pretty good fucking place to be. So I want to thank our guests, Adam Scott, Nicole Byer, I want to thank Professor Tom Zoller, I want to thank our guests, Adam Scott, Nicole Byer. I want to thank Professor Chon Zahler.

I want to thank John Milstein and Sarah Lazarus, our new writers. I want to thank the Peppermint Club and in San Francisco the week she came out for impeachment, I forgot to thank Nancy Pelosi even though a lot of people have been tweeting at me to stop thanking her because she wasn't for impeachment

until then. So we're back to thanking Pelosi. And that's our show. Thank you all for coming out. Love It or Leave It is a product of Crooked Media. It's written and produced by me, John Lovett, Elisa Gutierrez, Lee Eisenberg, and our head writer, the Kendall Roy of Crooked, Travis Hellwick. Plus our writers, Jocelyn Kaufman, Alicia Carroll, and Peter Miller. Bill Lance is our editor, and Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer.

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