LPRC - CrimeScience Episode 31 – Protecting the Physical Space: Evidence-based Safety and Security

Episode Date: September 12, 2019

This week, Tom Arigi joins co-hosts Dr. Read Hayes (LPRC) and Tom Meehan (CONTROLTEK) in a discussion on Asset Protection, including working with the LPRC and LPRC INNOVATE program, evidence-based safety and security, the greatest challenges in AP, what the future holds, and much more. The post CrimeScience Episode 31 – Protecting the Physical Space: Evidence-based Safety and Security appeared first on Loss Prevention Research Council.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to Crime Science. In this podcast, we aim to explore the science of crime and the practical application of the science for loss prevention and asset protection practitioners, as well as other professionals. Co-host Dr. Reid Hayes of the Loss Prevention Research Council and Tom Meehan of ControlTech discuss a wide range of topics with industry experts, thought leaders, solution providers, and many more. In this week's episode, Tom Arrighi joins us for a discussion on asset protection, including working with the LPRC and LPRC Innovate program, evidence-based safety and security, the greatest challenges in AP, what the future holds, and much more. At the time of recording, Tom was with Walmart, but has now transitioned into a new role with Kroger. We would like to thank Bosch for making this episode possible. Take advantage of the advanced video capabilities offered by Bosch to help reduce your shrink risk. Integrate video recordings with point-of-sale data for visual verification of transactions and exception reporting. Use video analytics for immediate notification of important AP-related events. And leverage analytics metadata for fast forensic searches for evidence and to improve merchandising and operations.

Learn more about extending your video system beyond simple surveillance in Zones 1 through 4 of LC's zones of influence by visiting Bosch online at boschsecurity.com. Welcome everybody to another episode of the Crime Science Podcast by LPRC and the University of Florida. And today, of course, I'm joined by my colleague, co-host Tom Meehan from Control Tech, long-time practitioner in the industry. And we're both excited to be joined today by Tom Riggi. And he is one of the top people at Walmart US as far as asset protection, what they're doing, including in the safety realm, but looking at safety and security in particular, but with a long track record as far as being actually, in addition to a stint as an operator, store operator,

but in that realm, but also in the asset protection LP field. So, Tom, welcome to Crime Science today. Thanks, Reed. Thanks, Tom. All right. So, we'll jump right into it. And how did you get into APLP field, Tom, and what were some of the organizations, areas in the U.S. where you worked? Well, Reed, you know, when I was about 19 years old, I was majoring in criminal justice. I had an idea that I really wanted to go into law enforcement. really wanted to go into law enforcement. In order to help pay the bills and I and what I thought would be good practical experience I got a job in what was called security back then. I really I really walked Oakbrook Mall in Illinois started to apply and took a job really with two retailers, Faxeth Avenue and also Sears Roebuck. But I really knew within a few days

working in those organizations that I really, really enjoyed retail security, now known as either LP or AP. I was really hooked pretty quickly. And so working at Sears, I spent the majority of my career over at Sears. I spent about eight years there. And in that time, I started out, like I said, just working part-time while I was going to school, really shoplifting and working some investigations. When I left 28 years later, I was the divisional vice president of loss prevention. During that time frame, I had an opportunity to cover most of the United States, but actually all of the United States, Puerto Rico and Guam.

And just had a ball learning the business. I think you mentioned in your opening read that I had a little bit of operational experience as well. That was a great thing about working at Sears during that time frame. Lots of opportunities. I got an opportunity to run a store for a couple years in Indianapolis, Indiana. I got to be a district operations manager, which was kind of a new gig when they developed that and did that for a couple years out in Phoenix. So, really enjoyed the time there.

You know, working in the home office, I was starting to get concerned. And all transparency and candor about the business. And I heard about an opportunity with a company called National Schools. They were looking for a senior vice president of loss prevention. And that was really a lot of fun. I really loved that role because it was very rewarding to kind of rethink how the AP department worked there and how it needed to function and how we needed to make an impact. The owner was looking to start from scratch so we built a strong team, we invested in new technologies, we partnered with some great

solution providers, and at the end of the day, some pretty dramatic results. And really, I didn't at the time, I was just, we were just starting to have fun. But about two years into it, I got a phone call. That call was an opportunity to work for Walmart. And, you know, when the world's largest retailer calls you and says, you know, we want to see if you're a fit for our team, you listen. So now I've been over at Walmart here for about five and a half years. And I've had a number of different roles here,

but currently responsible for safety and security. So let's talk a little bit about that, Tom, your role in safety and security. And what are your objectives there in shaping the environment and the experience for everybody? What kind of drives you? What are some of your objectives and process there around safety and security? Well, my team's responsible role for safety and compliance. That's one space we deal in. Physical security is another area that we spend time in.

Event management is an area of our team's focus. And last but not least, clean operations, which really I took responsibility for a little over a year ago, the theory being a clean store is a store store and how to keep store floors looking I thought I would but you know obviously the major part of that though Reed is how do you how do you keep a store safe and not just a store but in general. So the majority of our team's focus is on just keeping our associates and our customers safe. That's an interesting comment on more than you ever thought you would need to know on floor wax. But it sounds like obviously accidents, workplace injuries, and things like that are important and critical.

How do retailers typically look at that, or how are they looking at that issue, that problem today and going forward? I mean, we know it's important. What all does it affect? How does it affect the retailing business, the people, and your success? that affect the retailing business, the people, and your success? Well, when I think about asset productivity, you know, our two most valuable assets are our associates and our customers. If you think about it, without them, we really don't have much of a business model.

What we do is we focus on providing a safer place for our associates to work and a safer place for our customers to shop. And, you know, we developed this total safety mindset that I think is different from most traditional safety teams who have a focus on accident prevention and claim management. You know, I believe, in fact, we believe that it really doesn't matter if it's a slip and fall or a purse snatch safe condition it's up to us to continually work to make walmart a safer place back in the day when i was growing up the store manager used to tell me that sin in retailing was to have an auto stock you can't let your customer come in and and although that's really, really still important, and we do a lot of work to make sure that we're in stock for our customers,

the reality is the real cardinal sin is having your customers get hurt or having one of your associates get hurt. So to me, that is the primary focus, and it has a big impact on our overall success. You know today, Reed, our customers have more choices than us. I believe if they don't feel safe they want to shop in our store. The good news is Walmart has a very robust online business as you know and that's great. If you haven't tried grocery pickups you're missing out.

But the reality is the most profitable sale is the sale that takes place in the store. We need customers to choose our dot-com option because they want to not really because they feel they need to do this to your security concern. And that's a key aspect for us to successfully harness our digital and physical capabilities. And really, it's the same for our associates. We want them to focus on taking care of the customer's needs. And we believe our associates deserve and really expect a safe working environment. So at the end of the day, I guess to answer your question, it's all about establishing, enhancing, and maintaining trust, making trust a competitive advantage, if that makes sense.

When your two most important assets know they can trust you and they see the things that you're doing to help make Walmart a safer place to work, it strengthens our brand as an employer of place. And when your customers see and feel the things that you're doing to make a safer place to shop, it not only strengthens our brand, but it elevates the role we play within our community. So when you step back and start to connect all the dots, you start to understand how important the work we do is to overall organization success and make sure our customers are building where they want to be and have

the options they need when they want to go shopping, and that our associates don't have to really worry about anything other than taking care of the customer, making sure we have a great customer experience. Okay, well, that's great perspective. Let me go over, Tom, to you. What do you think about some questions, comments for Tom? I know you've got experience in the asset protection LP world much more recent, including interfacing with the safety and security, making sure that the shoppers, that the customers, associates feel safe and secure at all times. What are some of your thoughts and perspectives?

safe and secure at all times. What are some of your thoughts and perspectives? Yeah, I mean, before I jump into some questions, Tom, I just have a general question. Because of the size of Walmart, could you just give the listeners an overview of the asset protection structure and the setup of the folks that work there in asset protection? Yeah, sure, Tom. I would say we have what I would consider a pretty traditional org chart. The AP team at Walmart reports up to our central operations team. Our vice president, Joe Schroeder, reports into the executive vice president of central operations. Joe has a group of directors that report to him. Besides me, there's Gary Smith, who manages our AP operations

team, Kristen, who has the responsibility for our field team. She's recently so congratulations to her, but enormous responsibility. Has a divisional team that reports directly to her time. And then from there, it's pretty, like I said, pretty traditional. We have regionals. The regional team has market asset protection managers report to them. And then we have, in the majority of our stores, we have store PPPs as well. So, it all funnels up

that way, ultimately, through Joe Shroud and our prospects. Tom, can you explain to the listeners of how you deal with some of the different challenges related to the demographic location of your stores and the different culture in the markets? How do you handle that? Do you have, I'm sure there's not a one-size-fits-all approach, but from a safety initiative standpoint, what are some of the things you're doing to deal with that? I think that's a great question, Tom, because the tendency in any business is to paint with a broad brush and anticipate that a policy or a will work 100% in all stores. And we all know the reality behind that is not exactly, it's not an exact sum of it. When it comes to challenges, there's two things I think that come to mind, Tom.

We have cities where the local law enforcement agency is struggling from a staffing standpoint, and that puts pressure on their ability to respond to what's prevalent lately called nonviolent causes like shoppers and gators. You know, we depend on our local LP team to work through these types of difficulties on a city-by-city basis. You know, we've established a law enforcement outreach program, Tom, where our field leaders meet with local law enforcement on a quarterly basis

to really share data, exchange ideas, look for solutions that are specific to that store and the stores that are specific to that department. A few years back, I learned firsthand just really how beneficial it is to sit down with the leadership team of the police department or law enforcement agency and explore the things that we're working on and the problems that we're seeing in developing that partnership because a lot of times the local police the local in the local store the enforcement officers that are showing up in the sergeants they have a good idea of what we're doing and we've got working

relationships with them it's not always with that information funnels up to the with the senior command staff so giving an opportunity to sit down and talk with the leadership team on a quarterly basis I think makes for a lot less surprises. It provides a lot of clarity, it enhances partnerships and we see that as a key aspect of our partnership with local law enforcement. Something that I can't do or the team here at the home office can't do, it has to be done at the local level. I'd say the second would be in some cities, the local prosecutor's office has decided to not prosecute, since it's perceived as a nonviolent crime. You know, and it's bad enough when you think about felony thresholds going up,

You know what, it's bad enough when you think about felony thresholds going up, continue to go up, but declaring publicly that you won't prosecute shoplifting, and that's a slippery slope I think, and I think it'll have serious consequences long term. And really small businesses I think are going to bear the brunt of these decisions. Is eating over could mean the difference between staying in business or not You know additionally and read you know, this is what you feel over the years I've known you that most criminologists I believe shoplifting is meaning that if

Get away with shoplifting Career criminal will progress in the more serious crimes and that's not good for the community you serve. Local prosecutors I believe should be looking for ways to identify these offenders early and intervene, provide some education and hopefully put them on a better path before that criminal activity escalates. And finally Tom and Reed, what you've always taught me is that a big part of our return strategy is relying on consequences. And decriminalizing shoplifting, I think, serves to motivate the shoplifter because it changes the risk-war decision-making process. So you can imagine having 4,700 stores, Tom, diverse. storage time diverse we've got diverse community relationships diverse community issues that we practice are in and neighbors in the community but at

the end of the day really massive investment in people you know in the field versus us because we need the local leadership on the ground helping to make the right decisions, to be good partners with our first responders and our law enforcement partners, and to be great neighbors to the customers we serve within the community. Yeah, and I think some of the discussions, Tom, are around the deterrence and then the sanctioning that comes from presumably after somebody's detected and possibly detained and what's that look like. And we all know if there are just not even speed bumps, we're probably going to have

more frequent and then increasingly serious issues, in this case with theft, with shoplifting, shop theft. So yeah, there's a lot of discussion around and potential research that we need around, all right, there are formal and informal sanctions. The most critical or serious formal sanctions normally, okay, law enforcement arrests you normally physically, sometimes it's a nose- peer ticket, you are then processed and then presumably some sort of detainment, maybe even incarceration and probably fines that will come that formal sanctioning process is going to make it, you know, so inconvenient, so threatening, so costly in certain ways that you're not probably going to reoffend. And you might even

discuss it with others and we get some more general deterrence out there in addition to your specific deterrence. But in that light you're talking about where, wait a minute, a lot of that formal sanctioning, official formal sanction, seems to be deteriorating, waning, or maybe it's temporary, maybe it's permanent. What other formal, informal sanctions are out there? Informal would include somebody's embarrassed or feels shame, and so they don't re-offend others. They just internally feel guilty, so they don't re-offend. But there's a lot of discussion, what can we do on our own or as a retail community with and without law enforcement, if need be, or the criminal justice system to provide some speed bumps, at least, to slow this down. So I'm

sorry, I'll go to Tom Meehan. Tom, I know you had some further comments and questions, follow-ups for Mr. Arigge. Something just came to mind when you were speaking about that, and it really directly relates to that answer. Thank you. I can't imagine the depth of stores and how different it must be. So, Tom, how do you deal with the fact that everybody's got a smartphone with a high-deficient camera on it and can take a video and live stream it and really post it anywhere today? What are some of the awareness and education things you're doing, both from a safety side of it and from an apprehension side i think that's a great question as well and look at the end of the day um two things come to mind when i think about that number one um are we hiring the right person for the job and number two are we are we providing training and And obviously we put a lot of emphasis on both.

And from a training standpoint, you know, there are a lot of different ways that we work to train our associates to make sure they understand and have an awareness level of either threats or going on in the store. I think the most important thing is to make sure that everybody understands and has been trained on your policy and procedure and then follow. Now the reality is we are still all human beings and so you know sometimes it doesn't happen. Sometimes the policies don't get followed exactly the way they were being trained. But I think the way you around everybody having a phone is to always have the right

intent and to make sure that your associates are trained on that. This is a people business. It always has been and I think it will be. So if there's a customer that's upset, we have provided de-escalation training so that we don't add or compound that problem. Copying policies are very robust, and that's probably all I'll say about them, but they're designed to make sure that we take an important asset, our customer and our associate, put that first

before any merchandise. Think if you believe in the programs that you have and your ability to train on those programs, let them record it. You're not gonna stop it anyway. You're not gonna stop that recording. So, I would get comfortable with it. And know the ones that go well, no one loves that.

So it's only the ones that go sideways that end up being posted on social media, it seems like. It would be good to see some of those good ones every once in a while. Yeah, I mean, if anybody who's listening to the podcast could take that, I would say that's probably the best piece of advice right there is just to drive that everybody has good intentions. And I mean, that's a phenomenal answer. And I know it's a number one thing that comes up when I talk to people because I talk so much about social media and technology. And I have a question related to the LPRC. And with someone like yourself with such a wide range of responsibility and the amount of time you have to spend on all the things that are going on, how and why do you get yourself and your team involved in the Loss Prevention Research Council working groups and projects? Yeah, well, look, that's probably a little selfish. it's probably a little selfish but at the end of the day I really think it's critically important to ensure that we not only leverage science to help mold

our strategies but also to validate what we've been doing and and is what we're doing having the desired results. There's good and bad with being in the industry for as long as I'm good news is I guess I've seen a lot but the bad news is I might be able I might be wrong in my assessment and so I believe our involvement with LPR see whether that's my assessment or what I believe the right thing to do or the impact or anybody else's LPRC helps us to ensure that heading down the right path you know many of our strategies involve capital investment or investment in labor hours and working with the RC finish we can ensure that when we are

asking for additional resources it's backed up by science. And that's powerful in a couple different ways, I think. For me personally, when I know that we've tested and it's rigorous and we've leveraged the experts and the team at the Lost Resource Council, it candidly gives me a little bit more swagger as I'm moving through my project, reviewing that with my leadership team. And then, when it comes time to ask for those resources,

the reality is it helps my leadership team know we've done our homework. And when you do that, you develop a level of trust and integrity that certainly helps speed things along on future projects. So the involvement we have in the LPRC is critical for those – for a lot more reasons, but those are the two that come to mind real quickly. Thank you.

And I guess the next question is – and I think you kind of answered it, really was, how do you incorporate the LPRC's concept and research into your work? And I think you really answered it in that. So I'll turn it over to Reid. I think, thanks, Tom. And one concept that I've worked with Tom on at Walmart recently, and really for a while now, in reality, and that is zone four. How do we better understand what's coming our way with sensors or some way of knowing through people and so forth in zone four, the parking lot itself. And then what are some options that we might have, protective options for the people and the vehicles and the people being, of course, our customers and shoppers that are out there. Tom, can you talk for a minute on zone four? And you've presented on zone four at overall NRF, Protect and R RELA or whatever,

so you're an acknowledged expert in the field, but can you talk a little bit about Zone 4 parking lot and how do we detect, define, and deter? Yeah, you know, I think it's a great example of us not only using the framework that the agency has developed, but also getting some traction behind it. When I first saw the zones of influence reads, I felt pretty good all the zones except for four. I think most retail practitioners today would probably say the same thing,

that zones one through three we do really good. Maybe even five, our involvement with the community is pretty good. today would probably say the same thing that zones one through three we do really good maybe even five our involvement with the community is pretty good but what are we doing in the parking lot and have this belief that says if you can control the parking lot you have a better shot at controlling what's going on in store as well and so we've we've worked Reid, on this see it, get it, fear it model. And I see it play out in the parking lot as well as it does within the store as well. The thing that comes to my mind and the technology we've deployed through what we've called a lot cop and or whether that's a mobile device off a

parking lot or stationary device on our building interesting to me is it's obvious that that's to be very over and just by some of our results that it's pushing crime away it's not deterring crime I think that person's pushing crime away. It's not deterring crime. I think that person's just going somewhere else. But the reality is it's pushing crime away from the Walmart parking lot. To me, the even more exciting piece, and I wish I was smart enough to say I knew this was going to happen or I knew this was part of the project overall. When you think about see it, get it, fear it from a funder's perspective, there's a flip side to that coin that I learned really just through watching as media would show up in our parking lot and want to do a story on these devices we were putting out there. And so, you know, I thought about it as our good customer has to see it, get it, and at the end of the day, appreciate what you're doing. I see that play out over and over again.

Every time media shows up in a parking lot, they'll pull some customers aside and say, hey, what do you think? They always say, look, they understand it, they see it, they get it, they understand what we're trying to do, but they don't fear it. Their comments are, and we're grateful that Walmart's doing that makes us feel safer in fact remember we were out in front of one of our stores in Gainesville talk to that customer that's parked right next to one of those devices we understand it understood what we were trying to do fully and parked her car there so as you think about zone 4 you got to think about, in my mind, from both perspectives, both the offender's perspective and your customer's perspective. And like you continually call me on, Reed, is lots of friction for that offender and no friction for that

customer. And really, that's easier said than done. but that balance has to take place or your strategy isn't going to be as good as it can be. Yeah, zone four, we talk about, well, anyway, that the knee bone's connected to the leg bone and the hip bone and so forth. So we really want to think three-dimensionally what's going on, what are people thinking, their perceptions, their movements, their behaviors as they come and go and learn about our place. And so how do we get people to not again launch or progress before they get here or in the parking lot and establish that real impression of control in the parking

lot. This is a relatively safe and secure environment, particularly if they're looking for options out there to attack or to steal from. So zone four is just important. And you all are just, in our opinion here with our teams at UF and LPRC, acknowledged leaders and really thinking, using the theory and the concepts and then helping us rigorously test different dosing options. How do we do this or that? We've now got some magnetic skins for our live view or lot cop, as you all term it, to get an idea. And we're getting ready to launch now. We've got it all ready. Then we're going to trial the Walmart blue versus the Walmart yellow versus the security package that we've got on ours

versus the law enforcement or police package so that the appearances, the positioning, and things like that that demonstrate some better intent and capability, what options work best in what environments to help her feel safer and more secure and help the red guy that's coming there to attack or steal feel the opposite. So good stuff. I would say, Reed, that we're pretty far down the path with rolling out this technology. And my concern right now is, you know, after a while, things tend to blend into the scenery. And so how do you keep that thing alive, even though it has flashing lights and everything else? So, you know, we're continuing to add things like Walmart radio. So as a customer who's walking in the parking lot, they're going to get this device being

active and playing Walmart radio. The deterrence piece on if somebody gets too close to it, it wakes up and says, hey, can you please step away, I think it's all really, really important so that we can keep the technology meaningful so that the offender knows that it's really being watched or it is working. The customer knows that, yeah, I feel better because this device is active and working well.

Yep, excellent. Yep, we're trying to help them see, get, and respond appropriately on both sides of the equation. So more to come on that for everybody out there. I wanted to kind of quickly switch direction and then go back over to my colleague, Tom Meehan. You know, Tom, let's talk a little bit about LPRC Innovate, the next retail center, but particularly the Innovation Simulation Lab. You've been hand chosen by, I think it was 30 colleagues, and you're one of what's called the core team, the planning team to help us plan and execute LPRC Innovate. Can you take a minute to tell us what's LPRC Innovate?

What are we trying to do? And what's your role as a retail AP advisor on that core team? Yeah, look, I'm really excited about this one, Reed, because I think it can be a game changer. think it can be a game changer I think it will be a in in thinking about how we leverage technology in a way that helps us make better decisions and so I think my role is pretty simple and maybe shape the future that we can learn by leveraging technology supported by the Loss Prevention Research Council using real science. You know, I think we're just starting to have the true potential of the relationship agreed that

with the University of Florida. By that is not only tapping into technology that will help us learn. We can simulate using tapping into technology that will help us learn. We can simulate using new technologies instead of setting up a whole store, getting into the lab, thinking through how to maybe set up a friend and then putting that into practice right in the lab in a virtual reality type setting. That's just mind-blowing at this point, right? And I think, like I said, not only tapping into those technologies, but at the same time, we're going to get a front-row seat to the university's best and brightest in ways that...and they'll help us in ways that we haven't even figured out yet. So to me, this is very exciting.

The new addition of this working group and making it work within the LPRC is even more of a compelling proposition for anybody that's thinking, should I be part of the Loss Prevention Council? Is this something that can help my business? And if you're already members and you haven't heard about NFA, you need to dig in. It's fairly new, so we're still learning along the way. But at the end of the day, leverage technologies to help us get to an answer faster. And then how do we tap into the best and brightest that UF has to offer in ways that I mean who even knows yet it's an

interesting part about retailing today we're on we're on telling though he's been a high change fast-paced environment to work in. I don't think we've seen anything yet. How fast and how quickly things are going to change. And innovation should help us be able to make better decisions faster, understanding technologies and monitoring technology. I hope that makes sense for you, but that's kind of where my mind is at with innovation. Totally does, Tom.

I hope that makes sense for you, but that's kind of where my mind is at with innovation. Totally does, Tom. And we'll have at least one and probably several upcoming Crime Science episodes where we cover LPRC Innovate. And we're going to be helping, of course, on social media and elsewhere. And the Impact Conference coming up in that first week in October to run people through the lab, week in October to run people through the lab, but to see what's going on already and what's going to be happening in that ideation space. We're going to be having a video wall and it's going to be a pretty amazing place to come up with all kinds of ideas. And the idea is to go from the possible to the practical. And then to take some of those what look to be practical ideas that have come out of that design thinking protocol or process and go to the next space through the next door there and into that simulation space where it's immersive.

You've got nine foot screens on all sides. There's surround sound, sometimes even scent. But you're in that parking lot. You're in that self-checkout area. You're in that receiving, that department, that whatever it might be. You're in that parking lot, you're in that self-checkout area, you're in that receiving, that department, whatever it might be, you're in that environment. And you're not in the real place, but the idea is to make it the next best. And the fancy scientific term, Tom, is ecological validity.

The closer that the participant in a research project, or in this case, in a design project, can be case in a design project can be to the real environment the better and and so by porting in simulated imagery in there and real imagery high res and then putting up options like you're talking about leveraging that technology so that everybody can very rapidly explore what if what if what if it looked like this what if it was over here what if we added this took this away move that at much less cost than if we're going to start doing, conducting demolition and moving things around in real stores, which is the next, the next part in this innovation chain. So we really appreciate Tom, you, obviously Gary, you all there at Walmart,

they're on the team. And then we've got quite a few other chains, including Luxottica and the Home Depot, Verizon, wireless stores, and so on. Several chains and then several solution partners and other innovation types that are out there helping us stand this up and refine it. Now it's pretty much stood up. Now we're refining. So let me do this. Let me go over to Tom. Tom, I know you got some more insights and questions, if you will. Yeah, definitely. Thanks, Randy. Tom, I know this is a loaded question, but what are some of the greatest challenges right now? Well, I'll tell you what, you know, we could talk about specific

challenges like we did earlier around shoplifting and prosecutors and all that. But to me, you know, connecting all the dots in a meaningful way is how I would say it. So as I mentioned before, you know, the rate of change is unprecedented right now. I've never seen anything like it. Nothing new to anybody listening today, anybody that's in retail knows the pace of change. And so it's about keeping up with the pace of change, but more importantly, getting out ahead of,

anticipating the change, I think is a major challenge. No doubt, it's a very exciting time to work in retail, and it's really not for the faint of heart. Just a few weeks ago, our business model didn't include Walmart associates walking into customers' homes and stocking their fridge. So you have to be ready for this. You have to embrace that. You have to make sure that your team is helping further the company's objectives, whatever they are.

And that can be changing in times like today where you're seeing unprecedented change. I think that was a great answer. And the next one is really related to people. And, I mean, how do you select and develop leaders for the future? You know, it's a great question. And one of the things that I've noticed over my career is how important passion is. And I believe passion and willingness to learn sometimes trumps somebody that maybe has more of a pedigree, unless you're looking for maybe an accountant

or something that has a very disciplined process. I think if you're excited about what you do, not only does the associate really enjoy their role more, it's more likely they're gonna be successful. So selection is critical. Experience is important. Having passion for what you do is equally important. I also look for, Tom, a track record of results. At the end of the day, there's two things that I would expect. Be a great leader, somebody that can drive results and drive results the right way. Somebody that has figured out how to drive success in their current role

is likely to do the same in their new role. So having an opinion for what you do, being an advocate for the team and for the objective, and knowing your role to make that objective come to life are all critically important. And so those are some of the things that I look for initially when I look to select folks to be on. From a development standpoint, the second part of your question, Tom, I'm a big situational leader believer. I think the best way to develop those that work for you

is to leverage situational leadership. So if there's anybody listening today that hasn't read Ken Blanchard's book on situational leadership, I would suggest that you go and figure it out because the thing that was, it was like a light bulb that went off when I was introduced to it because we've all felt it. We've all been on the other side and what I like about is you know the development characteristics that Richard outlines to d4 is kind of his model on the side and so if you're brand new in the role and and then the boss comes in to say this and you have no idea how to do it for frustrating or

if you're d4 which means you're an expert in what you do and your boss is painting by numbers with you and telling you point point that's aggravated so in order for the person you have to know at what level I think at what level they need help what level they just want you to leave them alone so they can do their stuff and when you get get that team figured out and it leads to a high performing team I've been on a number of high performing teams there's no better feeling to be part of a team where visuals near the role they know their strengths

and weaknesses, they know they're going to get supported at the right level. To me, if there's one thing that I'd say, if you haven't heard of it, go take a look. And I've learned over my career what I've seen some people do this naturally. They go, ah, I never knew this, but they do that naturally. Or, you know, reading up on situational leadership helps them be a better leader. Either way, it's a quick read. Great. Thank you. And my last question is also really related to people.

related to people, what's some advice that you'd have for some new asset protection practitioners or folks that are just getting started in a leadership role? Well, I think it depends on the role. You know, working in a corporate environment, advice for a new leader or somebody coming up through AP would be to only say no when you really need to. So when your business partners come to you, figure out a way to say yes. You know, in my role today at Walmart, it's really easy for me to say no because nobody wants to put anybody in harm's way. I could I could really easy say now we don't do that because that's a safety concern but but

candidly I think that's not only a lazy approach I also think it's stifles innovation my advice would be to try and figure out a way to work to yes when ideas come your way give me an it was probably 18 months or so ago. Our business partners came to us. They wanted to test using a Segway on the front end. So you can imagine, you don't really have to major in safety to start to imagine all the things that can possibly go wrong when an associated Segway

on a busy Saturday in a Walmart Supercenter and it would have been really easy in fact my gut was no we want and it would have been really easy for me to say now but instead of saying no we develop some training and operating procedures and the test and end of the day we didn't move forward with that particular thought or idea, but it wasn't because anybody got hurt or it wasn't because there was any naysayers. At the end of the day, we didn't move forward because our associates really didn't think it was necessary.

They had some fun with it, but they elected to lead us away from that out into a whole story test. So I think decisions and work experiences when you can when you can work cross-functionally take advantage of all those key stakeholders and their experience and only use no when you really need to after trying to get to yes creative yes I'm really lucky I work with a whole lot of really really smart people and I love her here so the other thing I'd say is you know at all you just need to go be able to figure out who may have the knowledge you need and with all the You just need to be able to figure out who may have the knowledge you need.

And with all the innovation going on in retail today, we're going to see what we can get. Well, that we appreciate all your insights today, Tom Arrigge of Walmart fame. A lot of good insights, a lot of field experience. But what's so important for us and our listeners is the concepts that you are learning constantly, like all of us as lifelong learners, combined with your expertise, experience, and then just some good, strong, logical thinking. But how you're putting all that in play, and you're doing it at such an incredible scale. There's just nobody else operating at that scale right now.

And so it's very, very important. We appreciate your time today. And so what I'll do is on behalf of my counterpart, Tom Meehan, Tom, we want to say thank you very much. And on behalf of our producer, Kevin Tran, thank you to all you that listen to Crime Science Podcast. We look forward to all your inputs, any insights, suggestions that you might have. Thanks so much. Thanks for listening to the Crime Science Podcast presented by the Loss Prevention Research Council and sponsored by Bosch Security. If you enjoyed today's episode, you can find more Crime Science episodes and valuable information at lpresearch.org. The content provided in the Crime Science Podcast is for informational purposes only

and is not a substitute for legal, financial, or other advice. Views expressed by guests of the Crime Science Podcast are those of the authors and do not reflect the opinions or positions of the Office of Prevention Research Council.